Has anyone given birth in the UK, then in France?

[jenpet]

And if so, can you tell of any major differences I need to know of before hand please? Am due to give birth at the local hopital, and I had a very straightforward labour and birth last time around in the UK, and all seems well so far this time, I'd just like to be well prepared for any little differences anyone can help prepare me for...thanks

[needahand]

France is very medicalised. If you want a natural birth you will find it difficult to get one. You will be monitored and in a bed. The doctors deliver the babies not the midwives. To give you an idea, at one of the hospital I know, the rate of c-section is 30% rate of epidural is %70. They do not encourage breast feeding but promote FF.

Any other questions?

[jenpet]

Thank you needahand. Those c-section & epidural figures are really high! Fortunatly, my GP is really sympathetic to the idea of natural birth, which I know is unusual and I am pretty lucky to have her on side. If I had been in the UK still I would've almost certainly gone for a home birth this time, however, if all is strightforward, I will still have to give birth in the hospital, but they will let me come home after 2 hours, with a three times daily midwife visit for the 1st week, which is what I am hoping for. If I can't have that for any reason, it will be up to 5 days in hospital for a "normal" delivery apparantly, which is what I'm curious about. I'm sure every hospital is different (I'll be at Vannes) but things like what to take in with me, and odd cultural differences which anyone was aware of really were what I was curious about...

[needahand]

Yes you usually stay 5 days in hospital in France. Don't really know what you need to take with you though.

[ib]

You can have a home birth in France, or get a midwife to deliver your baby in the hospital if you prefer. You would need to find yourself a sage femme liberale. It is covered by the assurance maladie, as well.

They don't readily inform you of this but it is available.

I had a wonderful home water birth in France.

[KashaSarrasin]

Hi Jenpet I recognise you from the Sept08 thread!

I haven't given birth in the UK yet, but DS was born in France in 2005. I had a typical French ultra-medicalised experience so I can tell you a bit about that! I'd say my experience was reasonably positive, in the sense that I wasn't traumatised by it, if I sound negative it's because it isn't the birth I'd have chosen given any choice (this time round, planning a UK home water birth!). I think if you're forewarned about what's standard then you can fight for what you want more!

At the hospital I gave birth at the midwives did everything unless there was a complication and the doctor was needed - I didn't see a doc (apart from the anaethetist) at all during labour and delivery. The epidural rate was above 85%, csec rate about 30% and episiotomy rate around 40%. The midwife who showed us round on the hospital tour was very proud of the fact that they no longer gave routine episios to everyone, apparently this was a recent change !

I initially hadn't planned to have an epidural, but gas and air seems to be unheard of in France...

Want to write more but DS has just woken up from nap so will come back to this later!

[jenpet]

Hi, thanks for all your comments. It's given me a bit more to think of. KashaSarrasin, yes I recognise you too! (although the sept08 thread is so huge I struggle to keep up) I think you are due on the same day as me (03/09?) although I've been for my 5 month echographie today and they brought that forward a bit now. I'm trying to remain flexible, but I would really prefer not to have an epidural, so it's worth knowing I have to stick to my guns! With DS1 I had a waterbirth, (but in hospital) and I would love another one, it was wonderful. Go for it!
Got to dash and get DS1 from school now, thanks again everyone.

[KashaSarrasin]

Finally I've got a chance to come back again!

Jenpet with me the pain relief choice was either an epidural or nothing at all - no gas/air, no pethidine! Plus they were very strict about positions - I laboured flat on my back with constant monitoring and absolutely no choice in the matter, whether I had the epidural or not. I heard from others that other midwives were more relaxed about this though, so maybe it was luck of the draw! I was also shaved but I did manage to avoid the enema that some of the midwives insisted on!

Having said that though I was well looked after during labour, the midwife left us alone for a bit but only when there was nothing much happening and she was only in the next room and she was coming in to check frequently.

Breastfeeding advice was awful, and everything in the hospital was sponsored by Nestle, from the name-cards on the cribs to the bag of freebies, and the corridors were stacked full of crates of formula! I was quite determined to breastfeed and I'm obtuse enough that this just made me more determined! I managed despite the crap advice I got in hospital, mostly because I discovered kellymom.

I was in for the full standard 5 days (longer if you have a csec) but had a private room with private bathroom, which made a huge difference. I know someone who did discharge themselves after one day, but she was given a lot of grief and a lecture on how she was endangering her baby's life!

Ib I enquired about homebirths when I found out I was pg and was told in no uncertain terms that they were completely illegal! This does seem to be one of the typical French medical responses to an out-of-the-ordinary request though, I was also told it would be illegal for DH to be present if I needed a csec!

I hope I haven't scared you too much Jenpet! I know from other people who were less naive than me though that if you really stick to your guns you can usually get what you want, so I hope this helps.

[ib]

They are wont to spout crap about what is 'allowed', you have to arm yourself with the info and look very hard to find the people who will support you in your choices. I used to drive 1.5 hs every month to my midwife's cabinet for my pre-natal appointments, but it was worth it in the end!

[scouserabroad]

hey Jenpet I've never given birth in the UK but both DDs were born in Vannes at hopital Chubert (DD1 june 2006, DD2 october 2007 so quite recent experience) Is that where you're going, or to clinique Océane?

Hmmm... I could chat on about this for hours but basically the midwives were all nice, friendly, answered all questions, etc. except one who I didn't really like but that's prob just me. All rooms on the maternity ward are single rooms, with toilet & sink, and there is a spotless communal shower room. The food is great, it's a bit like a hotel! You have to stay in hospital for 4 days not counting the day of admission, but if everything is OK with you & baby they do let you go after 3 maybe 2 days if you ask (insist lol!).

I was really well looked after in labour, midwife came to see me often and didn't leave at all towards the end of labour. That said with DD1 I had about an hour's monitoring followed by 12 hours flat on my back with feet in stirrups, no pain relief as anaesthetist was busy with an emergency, ended up with episiotomy & stitches etc. I have really bad memories of this but they said it all went brilliantly and I definitely got the feeling that this was how they thought a « normal » birth should be. However with DD2 I was more assertive & whenever they told me I should lie down I just repeated in my best polite-but-firm voice « Non merci Madame, je prefere marcher un peu. » This worked quite well & I was able to walk around the hospital until just before DD2 was born.

Well this is a really long post so will stop there, hope it all goes well for you

[Othersideofthechannel]

Again no experience of birth in the UK but both French babies delivered by midwives. It is epidural or nothing for the pain relief so I had epidural for the first and nothing for the second.
The hospital I gave birth at was supportive about breast feeding as that was my choice. I went to a bf group before and after birth for information.
They didn't try to persuade formula feeders otherwise though which I gather is what happens in the UK.

Good luck.

[AuldAlliance]

Another one with no UK experience, I gave birth in a French hospital, not in France métropolitaine but still fairly typical I think.
I had an epidural, but TBH I was very happy to do so by the time it was offered. I was shaved, but only because they thought I might need a CS.
Agree that BF support was absolutely shocking; everything sponsored by formula companies, and as DS had been whisked off to néonat as soon as he was born and had spent his first night away from me, I needed all the support I could get to make BF work. I am quite bitter about the way they treated me and their refusal to help.
FWIW, we have a friend here whose sister-in-law is a midwife and she does home births. She doesn't seem to be living in fear of midnight arrest, as far as I can tell. Nor does our friend, who has given birth to 2 kids at home with said sister-in-law.
I agree that if you are firm about what you want, they are probably unlikely to force you to lie down, etc.; as a first-time mother I was too submissive, and too terrified at the constant ringing of the monitors indicating a dramatic fall in heartbeat, to oppose anyone. I'd do it differently the second time around.

[AuldAlliance]

Ib, am suddenly wondering if the aforementioned sister-in-law is the one whose practice is an hour and a half from you...

[jenpet]

Thank you all of you for your comments and info. It's all really useful - I can't read too much! It's interesting how many of you were discouraged from BF too, and shocking. With DS1 we both took to BF really well, & I am expecting the same this time around, but if I was a 1st time mum it would be hard to stand your ground on this. I think with everything, you don't really know there are alternative ways to how you are being shown, even if you speak the language well, it's hard to say no, I want it this way, particularly when you are vulnerable anyway...
scouserabroad - good to hear from you again, we were down near you on Saturday! I am going to have him at the Clinique Oceane, as the GP told me they are slightly more "forward thinking" than the Chubert (?) we'll see. She is terrified I'll end up having him at home as I keep questioning her about it, and she knows DS1 came fairly quickly...
I'm horrified to hear some of you were shaved too, and KashaSarrasin, your whole experience sounds awful. I'm sure you will have a much more positive experience timethis time around.

So to sumarise, keep in mind what you want, be as determined as possible and start worrying if I see piles of Nestle merchandise!

Thannks again everyone for sharing your stories, I'll let you know what happens.

[ib]

Is she French AA? My mw isn't.

[AuldAlliance]

Yes, she is. Case of mistaken identity, then.
I was enjoying the idea of a weird coincidence!

[ib]

Iirc there are about 30 mw in France who do home births, so there was a 3.33% chance of it being the same one .

It's not many, but it does mean there's a reasonable chance of finding one available.

[AuldAlliance]

I had a vague idea (but am now doubting myself and feeling daft) that you were around Avignon and this mw is near Apt, so I reckoned the hour and a half sounded feasible, if you drove slowly (as all reasonable, cautious pregnant women do)..!

[ib]

You're right! I am near Avignon. My mw was in Aix. Had I known there was one in Apt I would have gone to her, would have been much more convenient!

[AuldAlliance]

Ooh Ib, can you let me know her name? If we stay here (or move to Marseille ) it would be nice to know of someone who does home water births. The mw near Apt (think she's in Forcalquier, so it would have been a longer drive for you, if that's any compensation) does home births but I don't think they're water births. My friend didn't have a water birth, anyway.
Apologies for hijack, jenpet.

[Miggsie]

My friend had 2 babies in Paris and was told she HAD to stay in 2 weeks, she discharged herself early on the second one.
She was wheeling the 2 week baby around in a pram and several people came over and REALLY laid into her for having a young baby out and about and she should be indoors!
And breastfeeding in public...she never dared!

[AuldAlliance]

2 weeks is exceptionally long. I had to stay in for 4 days. It would have been 3 but DS wasn't putting on weight (strangely, given that he wasn't latching on properly and no one was helping me).
I breastfed everywhere, including airports, cafés, stations, trains, park benches, etc. and never had any negative feedback. People here do tend to keep young babies indoors if it's winter or the mistral is howling, but I've seen very young babies (1 or 2 weeks) in the park in spring or summer.
Any disapproval is voiced here, though, I find that people feel free to comment. I have memories of wheeling a screaming DS through the market in Aix because I just had to take him outside; he had terrible reflux and I felt v bad at how much we were disturbing our hosts. I rigged up the parasol on the pram, but as I came round a corner it was longer fully protecting him. Before I had time to move it a very snooty Aixoise said loudly to her friend, "Ce n'est pas étonnant qu'il pleure, le pauvre, il a le soleil en plein sur son visage."

[ib]

She's called Fara Ramanasse, she's a wonderful mw. I can get you her number too if you would like it.

[KashaSarrasin]

FWIW I've bf in public everywhere too, including trains, airports, parks, etc, with no problems or comments at all. (Maybe because bfing in France is so rare it never occurred to anyone that's what I was doing!). Although actually the only time I was made to feel uncomfortable was in a paediatrician's waiting room for a routine check when DS was a few weeks old. Bitch of a paediatrician did not approve at all, said I was clearly overfeeding him as I was not sticking to a 4hrly feeding schedule and I would make him obese . We didn't go back to her after that!

Our local PMI was relatively bf friendly though, the ladies who did all the weighing and measuring were all very approving of me bfing and that I used an "echarpe de portage" (wrap sling) .

Veered off-topic a bit now, sorry!

Jenpet - if I was subjected to the same experience now then yes it would feel awful. But as I didn't know any different at the time it just felt normal, as it probably does to most French women! Ignorance is bliss .

[AuldAlliance]

Ib, I've noted her name. DC2 isn't exaxctly on the cards right now, so I'll get back to you if I need her number and can't find it as/when required.

Hijack over...

[ib]

Was going to ask if congratulations were in order.... (end of hijack for real this time, sorry jenpet)

Oh, one thing I've just remembered is that when you send off your forms for the assu they send you a whole pile of bumf, in which is included an info book about pg, cb etc which is so outrageous as to be funny. We actually kept it as it was so extreme.

Gems include:

• you should have an epidural because it's less stressful for the delivery staff;

• home is not a good place to give birth, even though some so called 'natural' birth advocates claim it is (I'd have to look up the exact phrase, it was hilarious);

• although bm is perfectly adapted to babies, most french women choose to ff 'for social and convenience reasons' (no info on support for bf at all)