Adventure and fun job, or stability and security?

[INXS]

Warning: long and overly detailed. Sorry!

My husband has had an offer in Stockholm for a company he's always wanted to work for. But he has a job here in London and they are offering him a significant payrise to stay.

We are seriously considering going, but we have a toddler, and a dog, and a lone elderly parent here to think about. My husband is leaning towards going, but I am getting less and less keen on the idea.

We have someone who would rent our home while we are away. I'd have to give up my job. And I want to be back by end 2018 so we can apply for schools for DD, who starts reception in 2019.

Everyone I know is saying "go for it! What an adventure! Sweden is awesome!" but it's easy to say that when it's not you who has to do it.

I'm asking on here as you guys all know the reality of moving abroad. There would be a relocation package including help finding accommodation. But I'm concerned about finding childcare and thinking it'll probably be at least a few months of me alone at home with the toddler, in a new city with no friends and no job. Once childcare kicks in it'll be great - but I'm not great at being a SAHM, I'm not really cut out for it.

I'm also worried about the return to London. What if DH loves the job so much he resents coming back? Or what if we return with a new baby in tow and they don't get a spot at our oversubscribed, excellent yet affordable local nursery (if we stayed, their spot would be guaranteed due to DD)? That would then affect my chances of going back to work yet again - or we would have to pay for a less good, expensive private nursery which would really affect our income.

I also want to have a second child (I'm 37 so can't put it off forever) but I don't think the timing will work out to have one during the 2 years we were away. I'd basically have to get pregnant, like, NOW, so that DH could take 6 months off starting at the end of next year. Otherwise it'd push into our final year in Sweden and he would have to leave the job at the same time as I'd be having the baby. So what's the point of going there, if we won't get the benefit of that amazing Swedish parental leave? (I know there is more to Sweden than that, but I hope you know what I mean?)

I know I'm definitely overthinking it, but I'd appreciate some cold hard truths here, from those that know. Would you do it? Am I being silly to even hesitate? Or is it simply not worth the upheaval for 2 years?

Thank you for reading!

[idontlikealdi]

Honestly no, I don't think I would. The deadline of having to be back for school applications and trying to fit in another baby would make me think no.

How much does your husband want to go? Would he resent not going?

If it came to it could you put your daughter into private school if necessary?

[strugglinginsweden]

Have you considered dh going and meeting up at weekends etc. It is a very easy commute and dh gets the job, you get to stay home. I am used to dh working away though and sometimes I don't see him for weeks on end. I was a mum of 2 very small children, didn't speak the language and a dh in another country when we moved here so I speak from bitter experience.
A 2 year stint would be a few months at either end of organising and adjusting, so it isn't a long time really.
You will have 15/20 hours of allocated council childcare if you don't work, you are not entitled to anymore unless you have a job. Finding a private nursery place or a nanny will be difficult.
I always think if you want something you will overcome all obstacles but if you don't really then everything becomes an obstacle.

[INXS]

idontlikealdi I think he would resent not going, but would also be happy with the money from the job here.

About school admissions... if we stayed in Sweden for an extra year, and tried to get DD into the local school for year 1 - would that be totally impossible? How do waiting lists work? We live very, very close to the school so in terms of proximity we would be ok, but does that make any difference? I read on another thread (very similar circumstances) that they would go to "the top of the waiting list" because the house they'd be returning to is right next to the school. But surely the waiting list is arranged by whoever has been on it longest? (I might start a separate thread about that.)

struggling thank you so much for this. The childcare info is really useful. I could manage with 15-20 hours, I think, but I hate the idea that I have to go and find a job immediately. What if I simply can't find anyone who wants to employ me? You say you were alone with 2 small children (argh!) - I've heard that Sweden isn't particularly set up for women staying at home, is that true?

Thank you thank you! We need to decide today - I'm scared.

[strugglinginsweden]

I don't know what you field of work is but unless you have something exceptional to offer, job opportunities may be thin on the ground. Not speaking Swedish will also make it hard to find work.
Swedish society doesn't really have a SAHM mentality. The child care and the social system is set up that no-one would really think about NOT returning to work.
Imagine explaining the theory of quantum physics to someone, well that's the same bewildered expression you will get from Swedes when you explain you are a SAHM
Remember your DD will be in a Swedish environment (hence me mentioning before about a place at an International school) My eldest really struggled at the beginning with the language. He was so frustrated he couldn't understand the other children.
I'm not trying to freak you out or put you off, just telling you some things I wish someone had told me.
Good luck with your decision making

[INXS]

Yes, I fear you are right on the job thing - it's very easy to say "you'll need a job, life is set up for one" but I know I won't be as employable as a native speaker. I've also heard that it's quite hard to be fired from a job in sweden, so employees are very heavily vetted first.
How old was you eldest when he struggled with the language - DD is 2? She understand so much and is talking a fair amount, I'd hate for her to be at a Swedish speaking pre school and feel isolated :(

[TheWormThatTurned]

I can only really speak to schools - we are currently going through the reverse, returning from overseas to the U.K. We have a 5 year old (i.e. Reception age) and a 3 year old.
The schools application process has been, quite honestly, an absolute nightmare.
We have bought a house ahead of returning and even that is not enough to secure school places for sept 2017. They want proof you are actually living there.
So even for DC 2 who won't begin reception until Sept 2017, they won't consider her application until I have proof we are resident.

I really only mention this in response to your comment about returning in time for Year 1. I do think it varies county to county, but don't assume you have a guaranteed place in your nearby school just because you are returning a few months before school starts.

Pre kids I would have said go for it. But going through relocation with early years school aged kids I would just advise caution.

[InTheDessert]

Were currently abroad. I'd say go, but then we lived somewhere that has spaces in schools. A pair if spaces might not be available in my preferred school, but one walking distance has loads of spaces. So. Can get them into a less popular school. Getting an international place here was a nightmare. You snooze, you loose. Our neighbours, who are looking for a school place for their child the same age as our youngest are still waiting 18 months on. We managed 2 months (and half of that was holidays).

Sorry, that was a load of babble. UK school waiting lists operate on who meets the admissions criteria best, nothing to do with length on the list. So the common, but not guaranteed criteria are adopted/SEN, Siblings, distance.
So, if you house is right next to the school, you would probable be quite near the top of the list.

Kids are amazing at picking up languages. Don't worry about your daughter in a Swedish preschool. I'd say a few months and you won't be able to tell she didn't speek a word when you moved.

[waitingforsomething]

Hi op, I was in a similar position to you a year ago, with small children not school age yet. My husband was offered a job in Singapore - I wasn't sure but we decided to give it a go, and be back before DD goes to school, which is next September. We are heading back in March, and although there has been some tough times I don't regret it a bit. I have had an amazing opportunity, and my children (especially slightly older dd) have had a ball. I'm so glad we took the chance and as we plan to stay put while our children attend school I'm so glad we did it.
I would go if I were you, you'll have a graet time.

[Chottie]

Could your husband take a sabbatical from his current job?

[SerialReJoiner]

I was all set to say "go! have an adventure!" but if the adventuring causes long-term upheaval in your lives that won't be easy to overcome, or be the source of irritation (can you imagine walking past the school next door in order to get to the only school you could get your child into? every day, for years and years?) then perhaps not.

I emigrated when I was young and had no dependents. Now that I'm older, more established in life, and have dc, I probably wouldn't.

[cheeseismydownfall]

OP, based on what you have said, I would say don't go. We came to the US from the UK a year ago, and I had to give up my flexible, child-friendly freelancing job. I completely underestimated how miserable it would make me to be a SAHM, and the contrast between my husband's position in a shiny new senior role at his company and me doing endless lonely grocery shopping and cleaning left me very resentful. DH has been as understanding and supportive as anyone could be, but it didn't change the facts and I hated it, I felt useless and irrelevant. Finding equivalent work here is impossible without contacts, the only choice would be to work full-time which would have a massive impact on the kids due to childcare issues and the lack of support we have here.

I'm now studying at a local college, and much, much happier, but that is only possible because it is (of course) English speaking here.

The school issue on returning home is also very, very real, and if you live in an area where schools are oversubscribed you will almost certainly have challenges ahead of you.

Sorry this sounds negative but it is so easy for people to say "oh, what an adventure", but the reality of expat life is that it is 5 per cent adventure and 95 percent doing the same shit in a different place, and it often being harder.

[SausageSoda]

It seems like such a long term upheaval for a short-term time away. Unless you are happy with the prospect of not working in Sweden and possibly finding it difficult to get a job on your return, I wouldn't bother for the sake of a year or so away.

[cheeseismydownfall]

PS waiting lists (in our LEA anyway) are based on exactly the same admissions criteria as entry into reception. So living very close to the school may put you straight to the top of the list, but if your school prioritizes siblings over distance and there is a child on the list who already has a siblings at the school, then that child will take priority. AFAIK there is absolutely no weight given to how long you have been on the list, it is strictly on the basis of the who meets the criteria at the point a place becomes available. This also means that you cannot "put your name down" until you are physically back home and qualify for a place.

[INXS]

Thank you all. This is so helpful. What you are saying is exactly what I am thinking. If we didn't have a child it would be easy. But the reality is that we do have to come back, and DD will have to go to school, and it's easy to say "it'll work out!" but I can already tell that it won't be that easy.
Yes walking past the school next door, and having to walk on by and go somewhere else, would be very hard to swallow.

[INXS]

theworm am I right in thinking that you have until mid Jan to lodge your allocation for Sept 2017? Surely as you are now living in the house you can prove it in time?

Thank you for your honesty. I'm honestly terrified fascinated as to how the process works

[INXS]

inthedessert waiting so nice to hear you had good experiences. Can you tell me a bit about what was so good about being abroad? As cheeseismydownfall says, I'm worried it would be 95% the same old stuff, but with no support. Maybe I'm being horribly negative but it just feels like we'd be in another city, bit like London but smaller and with no friends!

[waitingforsomething]

Op at the start I felt it was 95% same old shit but with no support. But within a few months (which felt ages, but wasn't) my daughter had made friends at school and I had met their parents, and made some friends in other ways and I suddenly felt a little bit settled.
What has been great has been experiencing a different culture with it's rituals, festivals and different food and this has also been great for my daughter. In terms of her, she has learnt Mandarin and speaks fluently with her friends; this is a great asset for her. As a family we have been able to travel to places we would never be able to get to from abroad, and I've enjoyed the challenge of finding myself some paid work here. It's interesting to see how a different country runs on a day to day basis, and I especially think it's enriching for my children. Remember, nothing is irreversible in this day and age, and nothing is forever!

[adornorising]

I don't know much about relocating to Sweden, but have done some international moves.

Two years isn't a long time to do the upheaval without a network. And the reality is that your DH would walk Into a situation where he has social contact from day 1 and you absolutely not. This is often the case for the "trailing spouse", but the implications of it are not to be underestimated! Often people who are on the "two year" circuit are working for organisations/companies that have this established and the locations have expat groups (often "women's groups) set up. These groups are set up because there are lots of people in the same situation. Personally I don't usually get that involved, but they serve a good purpose.

But your situation is not that. You'd be moving companies, to a "normal" location, one where you don't speak the language and wouldn't have enough time to learn AND put it to good use, you'd be giving up a lot here with no guarantees about work when you come back etc.

And the other incredibly important question is would your DH give up two years of his career, friends, family and life to move to a country where he knows nobody and doesn't speak the language for your career/work?

[Gungdjur]

I'm in Sweden too but in the sticks. As mentioned above its not a place for SAHMs - buy in Stockholm you get 30 hours a week even when staying home (there's a proposal to increase that to 40) and if you wanted to study Swedish you can change/increase your hours to suit. Also there are way more people in Stockholm and lots of international families. You should join the FB group English Speaking Mums in Sweden to find out more.

I wouldn't worry at all about your child picking up Swedish - they will do that so quickly and Sweden is very used to having immigrant children.

Getting a proper career type job would depend on Swedish but depending on your area of work you might not need to be fluent. Another option is substitute teaching at the many international schools - there is a huge shortage of teachers here.

Would you have to return in 2 years or could you extend if you were enjoying it?

[sofato5miles]

I'd go and have another baby in stockholm.

[Dozer]

In your shoes I wouldn't go. Even setting aside the schools and DC2 things, which are huge IMO, the disruption and risks to your employment sound significant.

[AmberEars]

Just replying about the school query. I do think it's true that you'd go straight to the top of the list. Waiting lists are based on the published admissions criteria and how long you've been on the list is not taken into account.

[Dozer]

Yes, you'd be high on the list based on location but below a couple of other categories, perhaps siblings, children who were adopted or had specific needs the school could meet. Places obviously also dependent on DC leaving.

To apply for the deadline for nursery/schools you often need to show you're actually living in the property, eg recent council tax/utility.