Moving to Canada when your kids are starting GCSEs and A levlels

(25 Posts)
Jinglebells99 Fri 30-Sep-16 14:45:06

My friend is planning to do this. She's planning to go for three years for her husband's job. Her children are year 12, year 10 and year 9. Just wondering if it would cause any difficulties with accessing university at the home tuition rates. Just curious really.

UKsounding Sun 02-Oct-16 02:04:16

I believe that a student has to be resident in the UK for three years prior to be considered a home student when it comes to tuition rates. In addition, the year's don't count if they were resident for primarily educational reasons I.e. Boarding school. My DD is a UK citizen, but resident in Canada, and we would have to pay International tuition rates if she went to university in the UK when the time comes.

The universities in Canada are good and I think cost about the same (or maybe a bit less) than home tuition rates in the UK. Your friends kids could just go to university in Canada....

pontificationcentral Sun 02-Oct-16 02:44:22

Yup three years in uk to qualify for home rates. I was serving o'seas (as a member of the forces) and still had to go via ombudsman to get the bastards to admit me as a home student. If they are serving forces there should be loophole. If uk tax-paying job (ie working for uk company o'seas - like the military lol) should be loophole. If a civilian economic choice and not a uk tax paying job, think you would be lucky not to pay international fees tbh.

pontificationcentral Sun 02-Oct-16 02:45:11

Should add we now live in Canada and my kids will study here as I can't afford international fees in the uk

pontificationcentral Sun 02-Oct-16 02:46:13

<mine are uk citizens too but have not been resident in uk for last three years>

lizzieoak Sun 02-Oct-16 03:03:52

It's the oddest rule, if you ask me, as kids seldom have a say in whether or not they're moved overseas and then get priced out of UK universities.

We're just starting to look at Canadian uni prices. Looks like around £3000-£5000 + cost of residence if in a city where the student can't live with parents.

pontificationcentral Sun 02-Oct-16 03:07:35

Ours seem higher tbh - looks like budgeting about 7k to be sure. Maybe dd1 is looking at the expensive ones though!!!!

pontificationcentral Sun 02-Oct-16 03:09:21

Get your RESP started now if you haven't done it already ...
(And oops sorry - was thinking in Cdn$ so £3-5k probably about right

Bobochic Sun 02-Oct-16 22:06:41

lizzieoak - I agree that the rules are very tough on some DC. And don't get me started on the 20-year rule for voting rights.

lizzieoak Sun 02-Oct-16 22:27:36

I looked it up in vague hopes DS could go to English uni for one degree & have the experience + cheer up grandparents with DS' marvellousness. I was not too surprised he didn't qualify but was shocked that the poor buggers whose parents go to work in Hong Kong or France a year or two before uni have ruined the kid's chances at affordable home fees.

Bobochic Sun 02-Oct-16 22:59:40

Children living in the EU pay home fees. We will see what happens after Brexit.

lizzieoak Sun 02-Oct-16 23:59:03

I would think that would have to end? I had a faint hope for my kid as his dad is English, but can understand they can't pay for everyone's kid when the parent pissed off permanently to the colonies. Seems harsh when it's a temporary move and the kid has mostly been schooled in the UK.

Klkl Mon 03-Oct-16 01:33:59

shock I think you are being given incorrect information on this thread. confused

If your friend is going overseas on a temporary expat work contract the DC _will not_ have to be resident in the U.K for three years prior to going to university in order to have home fee status.

The information is on this website. The relevant piece of info is the definition of 'ordinarily resident'. There is case law too.

Quote...
If you can demonstrate that you have not been ordinarily resident in the relevant residence area only because you, or a family member, were temporarily working outside the relevant residence area, you will be treated as though you have been ordinarily resident there

I know this because we were in this exact situation and DC started Uni with home fee status despite us living overseas (not in euroupe) prior to them starting Uni. We had to provide evidence that we had been overseas with my DHs work on a temporary basis. I.e. Our package included housing, schooling, flights home every year and was for a fixed term. We also showed evidence of our work permits etc. It wasn't difficult and we were totally honest.

Pontif It depends on the country but you don't always get to choose where you pay your tax. If you are working and being paid in an overseas country they generally like you to contribute to their own tax system.

lizzieoak Mon 03-Oct-16 02:02:36

That's great information, thanks! I had read so many cases online of families who were excluded due to the 3 years before the first day of class rule, but perhaps case law has moved this along.

Klkl Mon 03-Oct-16 02:09:39

The definition of 'ordinarily resident' has been the same for quite a few years. (At least 6) I'm not sure why it's not more commonly known that if you are a Bona fide expat you are exempt from the three year rule.we had actually been expats for years but it didn't seem to matter.

DC1 does medicine so not only would it have cost us a Kazillion pounds 😂 in fees it would have also made it very difficult for him to get a place at all as the quota for international students is very small.

Klkl Mon 03-Oct-16 02:10:30

Ps sorry for all my typos

marcopront Mon 03-Oct-16 02:19:39

When I spoke to some universities they said they looked at it on a case by case basis. As a teacher in an international school I was charged home fees for an M Ed.

Klkl Mon 03-Oct-16 09:10:37

It's weird how it's not something that has been centralised. Apparently ther have been cases where one Uni have given home fee status and another international fee status to the same student eve thoughtful regs/guidelines should be applied the same by each Uni.

It seems wasteful for each Uni to do it. We found the questions asked and the paperwork varied a lot from Uni to Uni.

Another thing which was frustrating but understandable was that some Unis wouldn't even give an indication as to whether they would consider DS as a home or international student until after he had applied AND firmed them while other would happily give advice before DS applied.

I don't know if the application procedure has been recently standardised as my info about applying is a a little out of date. ( the info I gave about ordinarily resident isn't out of date though)

Jinglebells99 Mon 03-Oct-16 13:02:56

Thanks for all your responses.

5moreminutes Mon 03-Oct-16 14:44:46

lizzieoak not only do EU students pay home fees for UK universities, but French universities only charge nominal tuition fees - children who have moved to France might do well to think of going to a French university instead of getting into debt going to a UK one!

Sorry, off the Canada topic!

Lots of EU countries still have no or very, very low tuition fees, so in all honesty its baffling that teens living in the EU would get themselves into ridiculous debt going to a UK uni when they have the option of getting their degree debt free in the EU country they finish their secondary education in, or that parents would encourage their children to return to the UK for university when they have the option of EU universities without fees.

lizzieoak Mon 03-Oct-16 15:33:18

My DS is massively into traveling so would like to at least do an exchange to Europe. It's a shame for him that UK foreign student fees are so high as he'd love to see more of his grandparents & extended family. There's always scholarships!

UKsounding Mon 03-Oct-16 16:17:22

@ Lizzieoak
Most Canadian universities have extensive exchange programs with universities all over the world (including the UK, but more exotic places too).

Bobochic Mon 03-Oct-16 16:23:09

5moreminutes - many French families pay a lot of money for their DCs' HE. It's not all free! Fees at prepa can be as much as €18,000 per year and then, two years later, a Grande Ecole de Commerce can cost €45,000 for a four year course (just fees - accommodation and food on top).

lizzieoak Mon 03-Oct-16 16:37:39

Thanks UKsounding. As we start thinking about unis we've noticed that! He's a bit keen on Denmark, but is open to any suggestion (though I've vetoed some places due to safety concerns).

5moreminutes Mon 03-Oct-16 17:58:20

Yes Bobo I know you can pay a lot - but I was really responding to lizzie 's implication that parents are screwing up their children's chance of a reasonably priced degree course if they move to France by pointing out that actually the opposite can be true grin UK university tuition fees are on average among the highest in Europe even for home students - most European governments heavily subsidise state universities on strongly held principle, to the point that fees are often almost nominal. The UK is quite regressive in comparison.

comparison of EU tuition fees

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