Question for MNers living in Germany

[franke]

Do any of you know if there is a vetting procedure for people working with children here, along the same lines as the police checks in the UK? Just wondering really.

[admylin]

I've never heard of it, there is almost no security around schools, kindergardens or anything to do with children over here either.

[franke]

Thanks admylin. How do you feel about it? It just seems so different to the UK. Is child abuse a hidden or unacknowledged problem here do you think?

[admylin]

Child abuse is acknowledged here but it doesn't seem to change the way people think. Even after a child was raped in her school toilets they didn't tighten security, there was no "out-cry" in the media. It's quite normal for 5 and 6 year old kids to walk to and from kindergarden alone. In our old school I was TOLD by the 1st year teachers not to walk my child (aged 6) to school. I had to wait outside the school grounds around a corner so they didn't see me bring and pick him up any way.

[SSSandy]

Think there must be a vetting process. For certain jobs I know you're required to provide a polizeiliches Fuehrungszeugnis to your empoyer which shows that you have no criminal record. I'm sure this applies to a lot of jobs working with dc; however I don't kow how strictly this is enforced and whether it's a prerequisite for all jobs involving contact to dc.

[SSSandy]

kow how
know how

[franke]

I don't understand why teachers think they have the right to tell you whether to walk your kids to school or not

I'll get dh to ask about Fuehrungszeugnis thingy (if I ask I'll just some across as the neurotic auslander mother)

[admylin]

Dh had to get a polizeiliche thingy for his job in the maternity hospital and for the present job but I know the women who ran the english play group, and the german play group leaders didn't have to.
Security in general is less than in UK, my dh just had an interview in Bristol and he said he couldn't even get into any of the university buildings (guards on doors) and was only allowed to enter the building where the interview was to be at the correct time , he was half an hour early and was sent away! Here in Berlin you can get into loads of labs and offices without anyone even taking any notice of you.

[admylin]

Oh yes the neurotic foreign mum! I have felt this so often in Germany! The last time was when I was brave enough to tell 7 year old dd's teacher that I thought he was mad wanting to go on a 3 day trip with 22 kids and only 1 other helper. I also addmitted to him that it makes me cringe when I know he is going to cross Berlin using UBahn, bus and train again by himself with all 22 of them. I just had to get it off my chest and tell him. He has been very nice since and always explains his day trips and travel plans to me!

[franke]

You mean he humours you now

It's a funny one. Although I like the more relaxed attitude here - they don't put the fear of God into their kids about nasty strangers etc., I do have this (very English) niggling uncertainty in the back of my mind. You know, are they missing something that's right under their noses? It's such a funny combination here of overbearing, daft bureaucracy coupled with surprising respect for individual rights. I just can't decide if the balance is right or not.

[admylin]

I'm in the same boat as you, I can't quite decide if this whole thing is right! One day I see the advantages of living here and the next I feel so homesick and fed up especially when confronted with stupid rules or bureaucracy.
I'm also fed up because I can't master the language. I am fluent enough and understand it all but I can't get it perfect when writing for example. It bugs me because I know I'm not stupid and I mastered french and understand a few other languages (Spanish, Hindi, Italien) so why not German?!

[SSSandy]

I don't know what to think of the bureaucracy etc either. On the whole I think it functions very well. However, if you run up against it, you could as easily go and ram your head into a wall as try and get your problem solved. I miss being able to say, "well ok so those are the rules, but this is my particular situation, so what kind of a compromise can we find to get this solved?". No go.

There's a lot that is really good about this place, let's be honest. I do like "my Germans" as well. The majority I've met are decent folk and I've found people very tolerant of other nationalities/cultures. If I wanted to walk my dc to school and it wasn't allowed,
I'd probably harp on about this being part of my culture or something like that.

Some mums do have this fear of child abuse to the extent we have, I was chatting to one this morning about just this worry over a cup of coffee. I think for a lot of German mothers though, this fear conflicts with a major goal they have which is bringing up their dc to be independent. How often do you hear mums talking about their dc being "selbststaendig"? All the time, right? This seems to start very early and I know it is very important to the mums I know here, whereas for me at dd's age (6), it really isn't much of an issue yet.

[admylin]

Yes that selbstständig thing starts really early here, when I first came across it I thought all these mums just couldn't wait to get rid of their kids, that's how it came across to me. I'm not sure if it works either. Where we used to live we were in family accomodation on a uni campus and the new students aged from 19 to 22 were really backwards with their social skills and didn't seem very selbstständig at all.
I'm enjoying my kids while they're small any way!

[franke]

Actually, I'm a closet fan of this selbständig thing. Having said that I do draw the line at allowing dd (4) and ds (2.5) walking to KIGA just yet.

I agree SSS - there is a conflict of interest for German mums and much of it arises from peer group pressure i.e. other mums who do let their kids out of their sight at a very (too) young age (2 or 3). Having said that, I am more confident here to allow dd out to play in our neighbourhood than I would have been had we stayed in East London.

The other thing I find interesting is that many German people find the system here a drag too and are just as exasperated as we can be. But I suppose all those Amts keep the unemplyment figures down .