Contemplating a move to Geneva in the next 3-5 years but confused by how school years work and when will be best for DD...(34 Posts)
So... We thought v seriously about moving to Geneva 2 years ago. I, a lawyer and the breadwinner (DH is a SAHD), was offered a job but it wasn't the right job or the right time - I'd recently had DD and we def wanted another. Instead, we left London for the countryside. However, the Geneva idea hasn't gone away (makes sense because of the type of law I do and because my degree was French) and now our family is (we think!) complete - I've just had twins(!) - we're thinking about it again with a 3-5 year time frame in mind for making the move. We need the dust to settle a but after having the (surprise!) twins (12 weeks ago...) and I want to make the next "rank" in my current firm.
A huge draw is giving the DCs the opportunity to be bi (or tri) lingual. Doing French and Italian for my degree made me acutely aware if what a massive blessing it is (I'm not - I learnt my languages the hard way!). Anyway, we would, all being well, plan to move for the long term (for all or most of the DCs school years at least) and would def be doing the local public schools.
I have friends who live in and around Geneva and while some live on that Geneva to Nyon strip, others are over the border for the cheaper rents - so upshot is we might be in either the French or Swiss system I expect. The vague plan is that DH would continue to be a SAHD and, as he's a teacher, would do a bit if coaching to ensure written English was up to English standards.
DD is 3 and was born in Oct 2010. She's just started in the first year if the nursery at a pre prep/prep here and, in the English system, is one of the very oldest in the year. She'll be going into English reception in Sept 2015.
I vaguely know the French system but not the Swiss. I'm confused about what year she would be in when and when, ideally, would be best for her (not worried about the twins!) given she has no French (although we'd try to prepare her). To a large extent, it depends on what job comes up when, but I'd like to have an idea.
Re the Swiss system, I gather the first proper year of ecole primaire is "6+". I'm guessing that means, for her, from Sept 2016, then she'd turn 6 that Oct. it would include all children born in Jan-Dec 2010? Is this first year when they learn to read and right and therefore the ideal year to start (it's unlikely to be earlier)? Would Sept 2017, ie the second year of primaire, be markedly harder for her?
Re the French, would Cours Prep for her also be Sept 2016? Again, I gather this is key as they learn to read and write in CP? Or do they learn in Grande Section?
Generally, how hard would she find it all at 6, 7, 8? I'm guessing at least two horrid terms for her ? Also, does anyone think either the (French) Swiss or the French system is markedly better than the other. I thought perhaps Swiss as ibgayhervthey get v good at German, but that may be a misconception!
All rather far in advance and vague at the mo, but I sort of need to suss out my plan of attack for when I go back to work after maternity leave!
We moved when our kids were 6 and 4yrs old. We were in the Canton of Geneva.
DS was 4yr old and went into 1E - this was non-compulsory but he was used to being fulltime in Kindergarten in Germany, and settled in really well. It was a lot of drawing, craftwork and very gradual introduction into formal learning.
DD was 6yrs old and went into 1P. This was more formal learning.
They were speaking reasonable French within a year, and were almost fluent within two years. By the time we left 3 1/2 years later, they had pretty much caught up with their peers.
I would say that the Swiss primary schools are very good, but they are much more restrictive than the UK schools. Less emphasis on creativity, and more on turning out perfect little Swiss citizens. A big emphasis on personal responsibility, and pretty much no provision for SN or kids who have difficulty fitting in. Their anti-bullying policy was non-existent.
Really important when deciding where you want to live - and I know this sounds really odd - is which side of the town your office is. If you are out near the UN, then you will want to be in Vaud, or on that side of the lake. Having to cross town can often take an extra 30 mins - the traffic in Geneva is horrific.
If your office is over towards Rive, then go for that side of the lake - some nice villages on the Swiss side are Corsier, Anieres, Hermance. Vesenaz is a bit larger, and doesn't have the cosy village feel.
The French towns are not nearly as nice - Douvaine is quite far out, as is Annemasse. When you live within a certain distance of the border, you can choose to send the kids to French schools. I don't know the other side of the lake as well, but agree with Espresso that the Swiss villages are generally a bit nicer.
You will also have to be careful with your employment contract - some companies don't let their employees live outwith Switzerland, especially if accommodation is paid by them.
Hey OP, slightly of topic, but if you are considering France v Switzerland i would think very carefully. They are quite different.
Annecy is lovely, but the villages closer to the Geneva border, ie. commutable distance to Geneva, are not so great. They are pretty run down and tired looking. Few villages seem to have shops open, there can be a real ghost town feeling. We have friends there and they find there is very little for DCs to do, especially in winter. My friend is very lonely and bored and they moved there from elsewhere in rural France, so no stranger to the isolation and other troubles typical with remote parts of France.
Swiss villages over the border though are much more livelier, better infrastructure, much cleaner and tidier, much more going on, things to do.
Switzerland is of course more expensive, but you get what you pay for i guess. Just something to think about.
Hi, there is a book called Going local your guide to Swiss schooling' that may be helpful for you. There is also a Swiss schooling yahoo group that is a good source of information
Not that it makes much difference to your decision, but just to be correct,
home fees status at university in England does currently also apply to Switzerland, something to do with it kind of being in the EEA if not the EU.
Also Switzerland did well in the Pisa report, particularly in maths and the schools are the best funded in the world. Everything is free. We're over in the german part so don't really know what it's like in the french side though!
Yes, that would be the "comfortable" solution for your DD, IMO. She would have a year to learn to speak French before CP.
So Bonsoir, GS would mean moving for Sept 2015? She'll be 5 in Oct 2015. Eek! That feels soon!
My DD is the youngest in her year (CE1) and it has not been a problem for her at all aged 6 with ZERO french to start. We are in France. My 3 have been in local schools since September and love it. No problems at all. My eldest is nearly 12 and in college.
I appreciate it's not Switzerland but hope it offers some reassurance as you sound worried about how hard it will be for your DD. I was the same.
Also find that the curriculum is very similar to English one. Just different teaching methods and longer days in primaire.
CP is the year DC are taught to read and write. It would be very hard to throw your DD into CP not speaking any French. Try to get her into GS at least.
Bonsoir - yes, we go to France all the time for food shopping!
To return to the French question, am I right in thing CP is the key year for literacy? And for DD that would be Sept 2016? I guess Sept 2015 would be GS for her (this is based on living with a French family for a year a decade ago, so could be wrong..) and GS is the last year of "play"?
There is a new GEMS school in Etoy, nr Nyon - your DH can get a job there and maybe you would get reduced fees!
TBH, it sounds like you have potential to make this work! You get a good legal job in Geneva, your DH gets a job in the primary where your DCs will go to school (so he will both earn and be able to understand their bilingual education), your DCs will be well looked after all around! And quality of life on the French side of the Swiss border is great - much cheaper food etc than in Switzerland.
Sorry legallyblond about the year groups! Even I am confused about them as they have changed. The first two years of school so aged 5/6 are play orientated and holding a pencil and not many hours tbh. This is now called year 1 ( I've checked the link now ) so year 3 is when it all starts!
Also re uni, my DC paid UK fees but not sure how that worked and now I think EU is the same as UK? Also I think Scotland treats EU differently than England...very confusing.
Bonsoir - you are seriously fuelling my dreaming / planning!
Maybe your DH could get a job in the British primary section?
I wouldn't worry about that. In fact, being old for year in France isn't great in many ways (you don't learn to read until you are nearly 7).
Hmmm... But they'd be young not old in the year... But maybe that doesn't matter... And we'd get more propery for our rent..... It's all pie in the sky right now - I have to do mat leave, go back to work and then get a job first!
French primary school (especially when combined with an international British section) will be closer to the timetable of English school than Swiss school.
I suspect that the already significant difference will remain between home/EU and international rates. Both of course will be sky high!
Bloody good point Bonsoir... Although the way home fees are going, perhaps there won't be much difference.... That seems like (valid!) very long term planning!
Sam - I'm a bit confused... You said the first two years are like kindergarten and about play etc (which was my understanding) but then in your next post say the first year is like reception but moves faster and by the second year, they're doing serious grammar etc. sorry - I'm being dumb I think!
Do you mean that by the second year of obligatory school 5 turning 6, she'd be doing serious grammar and that this is the year in which your DC started and struggled...?
If you live in France, your DC will be eligible for home fees status at university if they want to return to England. Not if you live in Switzerland.
Thanks so much all! This is so helpful. I'd come across that English stream at Ferney Voltaire before.... Thanks Bonsoir - v interesting. I'm hoping DH could teach enough English literacy on the side if we're in Switzerland... He's taught reception through to year 6.
Realistically, I can't see us going before the beginning of year 1 here. DD would be 5 turning 6, so the second year of obligatory school in Vaud (not sure of Geneva canton is the same..?). It would be tough on her... But I think worth it in the long term. I know I'd have some teary moments if she were struggling though! It might be year 2 here, 3rd year obligatory in Vaud, which obviously wld be even harder....
I moved abroad when my dd was 5.5. She had a year in kindergarten before starting school. I think 6 months is enough time to get to grips enough with the language but I would think it would be a little isolating to go to school with only a very basic understanding. I know people do move mid year etc but if you have a choice, then that is what I would suggest. Unless of course she has lessons before hand but I think it's easier (for children anway) to be immersed.
Bilingual French-English education at Ferney-Voltaire on the French side.
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