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Living overseas

Thailand for 2 years, should we go?

21 replies

corriefan · 24/08/2010 13:12

A friend of ours teaches in an international school in Thailand and raves on about how great it is. He thinks I'd have a good chance of getting a job there (I teach too). The minimum commitment is 2 years and we could rent our house here out while we go.

My husband really wants to go but I'm worried for the following reasons-
Will I earn enough for us all? I like the idea of DH looking after the kids (DS will be 6; DD 5)even though I'll be working full time and the kids could come to the school I'd be teaching in, though I'm not sure if we'd have to pay for them.

There are other little issues as well like
will it be too hot for the kids?
Are they too young?
insects and diseases
missing home (particularly my devoted mum) and routines
leaving dog behind
DH getting a job there and when we get back
what if something bad happens?

If anyone can give me a bit more insight into working abroad with a family I'd be grateful. I went travelling when I was younger and it was as if I had no choice I wanted to go so much, but I'm happy here now, though I do see it could be an amazing experience for us all.

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sowhatis · 24/08/2010 13:14

I wouldnt, but thats just me. maybe i would in another country, but not there.

go with your gut instinct, its normally right

x

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slim22 · 25/08/2010 04:13

Thailand is a safe and welcoming country for starters, so on that account no worries at all.I think you should start by applying for the job and work out your finances before building castles in the sand.your main concerns will be schooling. You may get a discount, free tuition is unlikely. International schools abroad are very pricey.then you should consider private medical insurance and factor in cost of airfares for a family of 4.
Of course housing to a western standard does come at a cost. Renting out your property may cover that though. 6
Finally make sure your relationship can withtst the test of this major upheaval of your normal routines. Distance can make you feel very lonely but can equally be liberating.

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kreecherlivesupstairs · 25/08/2010 08:34

I wouldn't hesitate, but we did live in Bangkok for four years and my DH was the wage earner. Our DD was 2.7 when we moved there and she took to it like a duck to water. In our case, DH's employers paid her school fees, DH is a teacher, they also paid our rent and medcial insurance. Like slim said, find out all you can before you make plans.
Good luck

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BaggedandTagged · 25/08/2010 12:10

If you're teaching in an international school, it's likely that you would be in a big city or at least nowhere too challenging.

You definitely need more information on packages as some packages can pretty much double your salary vs. being a "local" hire (salary only). The explorer "residents guides" are useful in terms of outlining other things to think about.

Your DH's prospects obviously massively depend on his skill set. If he does a manual/trade job and doesn't speak Thai, he'd probably struggle.

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springaporesling · 27/08/2010 06:05

A good friend of mine lived in Bangkok for 4 years and loved it. She also taught at Harrow School there for the last year or so of the 4. She had her dd there too. There is another MNetter in Bangkok and she had similar threads a while back as she is the one working and her dh is looking after the DCs.

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kreecherlivesupstairs · 27/08/2010 08:40

I think it's important to know what sort of school it is, and the reputation of the school. I know there are a couple that my DH wouldn't even consider working for. Unscrupulous owners and wages not being paid etc.

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corriefan · 27/08/2010 19:19

Thanks for the replies. My friend works there raves on about how great the school is and he went there after an awful experience at a school here so I feel happy about the school. I don't know about the fees being paid or the sort of package offered though, medical insurance etc so I definitely do need to find out about that.

I do worry about being lonely there though, I feel so lucky living near the kids' school, friends and family where we are now, so different to when I was in my 20s and the need to get away was overwhelming. On the other hand I think an opportunity like this is a good one and we can come back to our life.

I know it is building castles in the sky but I suppose to really go for it in applying I have to be fully motivated. Had a crap day with DS today so definitely not motivated now, although working FT feels appealing!

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corriefan · 27/08/2010 19:23

Oh and DH is a solicitor in English Law so not much help! He's good with computers though and could do a ESL course or something so hopefully he would be able to do something while the kids were at school.
The school's in Chiang Mai, so yes it is a big city.

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kreecherlivesupstairs · 30/08/2010 09:55

TBH, I am not sure how much use an ESL qualification would be in Chiang Mai, I got one in Bangkok and did some teaching but it was a real eye opener. IIWY, I'd go. It's two years out of your life and the opportunity to travel in Asia is unmissable. Have a look at thaivisa.com and the TES websites between them you should be able to work out if it is a goer.
Good luck

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Aldrin · 31/08/2010 20:58

Chaing Mai is an amazing place, the one part of Thailand I would live in (with three DCs). Climate not as oppressive as the lower-altitude parts of the country. LOADS of ex-pats. Quite a laidback vibe as opposed to Bangkok which I found a bit intimidating (and am a lifetime central-Londoner).

I would do it in a heartbeat. What a great experience for your DCs.

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marcopront · 02/09/2010 03:03

Most packages as teachers in international schools include accomodation, medical insurance, flights and free tutition for at least one child.
What do you teach? How long have you been teaching?
It is very important to research about the school. I also reccomend the TES particularly the teaching overseas forum.

Go for it. I have been teaching overseas for 12 years.

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TheBossofMe · 02/09/2010 04:46

I'm living in Thailand now! We moved here a few months ago, and am torn between loving it and being a bit lonely. DH is working PT in schools here as well (I'm the main wage earner).

So here's my observations:

There are a few good international schools in Bangkok and some really hi-society Thai ones which pay well if you have been recruited from abroad. I have no idea about schools in Chaing Mai, though. The forums already mentioned are great places to get contacts, info etc.

Its much harder to get a good package once you are here (ie ones with flights home, accomodation allowance, medical, etc) - you tend not to get such good deals, because they tend to assume that you already have an expat package from your partners job if you're part of a couple, or that you are earning just to travel if you are single. So apply from the UK rather than just turn up!

Teachers are really well respected here - especially by Thais - so the experience of being a teacher is so very different from the UK.

But teaching in Thai schools is really different - lots of focus on learning by rote rather than critical thinking. Discipline is hardly ever an issue, but getting pupils to speak up can be!

CM is gorgeous - very cultured, lots to do. But has fewer opportunities workwise than Bangkok.

BKK is dirty, smelly and poor in parts, and vibrant, exciting and dynamic in others. As is Thailand as a whole Some people love it, some hate it. If you are really serious about it, come over for a couple of weeks when you have a better idea of what kind of money you might earn, and see what that buys you in terms of lifestyle. If its Bangkok you are interested in, I'll happily link you up with some people and show you around if you want!

Thailand is a cheap place to live if you want it to be, expensive if you want the expat dream. I pay (well, my company pays) over 3k a month for my apartment, but its huge - 4 beds plus maids quarters, massive reception rooms, vast balconies off all rooms, nice marble bathrooms, and in a great location which is really central (I can walk home from work if I want) but also really quiet.

The building has 3 pools, a gym, squash court, pool room, table tennis room, sauna (don't get why you want a sauna here!) and games room, as well as a covered and an open children playground. So fab facilities. We decided against a house for security reasons as well as the fact that condos are easier to service, maintain (insects and snakes can be an issue in a house!) and you get to meet people. I can recommend a property website if you are interested.

Food is cheap, unless you like to live on a diet which includes lots of cheese, cream, potatoes and lamb, in which case you may need to sell your children to afford it! But fish, chicken, pork, fresh fruit and fresk veg all good value - especially fish. Quality is good as well - really really fresh, and good stores (Tesco is massive here) as well as fresh markets. Wine is exorbitant - except Thai wine which is undrinkable. So we tend now to have one bottle a week, for which we pay around the 20 quid mark (and that buys you Lindemans type stuff, nothing fancy) and drink beer if we are going out.

Food allergies and intolerances are hard to cater for - especially if a nut allergy is involved. They aren't understood, and everything has nuts or nut oil in it. So if that's an issue for your family, think again.

Electricity is astronomical - we spend about 250 pounds a month (and we don't use the aircon that much) - but water and gas are cheap (about 15 a month for both).

Cable and mobiles are UK pricing, as is broadband. Crap TV even on cable, but DVDs supercheap (pirate - its actually pretty difficult to buy kosher DVDs here).

You acclimatise fast, so don't worry about heat, although you will be hot a lot of the time. DD has coped better than I have! But you do tend to play indoors more than outside - outside is beach or pool rather than park (there isn;t really a Bangkok equivalent of local park around the coorner, but there are some nice large parks a la Hyde Park).

BKK has some nice stuff to do with kids, but some of it is expensive. My DD loves just hanging at the mall - she's 2.5 and think escalators are fab! But we struggle a little with the fact that going out for a walk isn't that easy (too hot, too dirty, nowhere to go) - the pool comes in handy though, especially as a place to meet other people. You just adapt to a different way of life.

Schools are great for kids but very expensive - UK private school pricing. But unbelievably well equipped, staffed etc. Very international, so lots of cultural opps.

Disease - just keep jabs up to date and use child-friendly insect repellent when out and about. Malaria isn;t an issue in BKK, don't know in CM. Dengue is a problem everywhere (daytime mossies are the culprits here). Other than that, just practice good hygiene, and you should be fine. You will become obsessed by foot health, esp in the rainy season.

Ah yes, the rainy season. Not as bad as I remembered, but a bore nevertheless. Roads clog up, traffic grinds to a halt, but in BKK you have the skytrain and the underground, which helps.

Weather is otherwise fab - we spend about every 2nd weekend at the beach (villa rather than hotel)- easily doable.

Cars are astronomical to buy, leasing is better, and I have a driver, so only drive myself at weekends and out of BKK. Taxis in BKK are so cheap - less than a pound for an average journey.

Home help can be very cheap - 350-500 average for live in help - nanny/maid. I pay a lot more, but many don't, so depends on what you need.

I have found it hard to make friends though, and I miss my friends and family terribly.

What else do you want to know? Feel free to ask!

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corriefan · 03/09/2010 12:53

Wow thank you for all the info, very useful!

I've asked my friend who teaches there for more about the package- I'd get my flights there and back for a 2 year contract, if you stay there longer you get a flight paid every summer or money. We'd have to pay for flights for DH and kids. Ditto medical insurance, we'd have to pay for dh and kids but I'd get it. The kids would get their school fees paid for the school I'd be teaching in but not their lunches.

I think Chiang Mai might be more expensive for accommodation- my friend rents quite an old place for 5500 and rent and bills would not be included in the package so a look at that property website would be really useful, thank you. Teachers at that school start on about 40000 a month going up by 2000 every year worked there, does that sound about right/do-able?

We don't have any food allergies or anything.
I'm a primary teacher, I've been teaching on and off for 7 years, having had 2 children in that time and quite a bit of time off or doing other work relating to special needs, so relevant, but not classroom based.

I think my main concern would be missing home too and my mum was not impressed when I brought up the idea!

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corriefan · 03/09/2010 12:57

Oh also, I forgot to say, we're planning to go for a holiday in February and I'd see the school etc. Our friend there suggested doing an island for the first week while he's off then going back to chiang mai, which island is good for kids? How about Koh Samet?

What with the holiday and then flights for dh and kids it sounds like we'd be spending a hell of a lot getting there.

I wish I could just go for it, it's just I've got such a good network of friends here and am so comfortable I suppose. The plan always was to go travelling though I think I've just got used to my home comforts!

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TheBossofMe · 06/09/2010 13:21

Samet is lovely, as is Samui, Phuket, Krabi -Thailand is super child friendly, so no problems there!

The website I was thinking of is actually for Bangkok only, so no use, but this one has been recommended by some colleagues here www.rethai.com

Exchange rate is roughly 50 baht to the pound, so I think your friend must be either very rich or have his figures wrong because 5,500 pounds a month is 275k baht a month, which would get you a palace! Looking at the site, at 40k a month salary, you would be spending a large proportion of your salary on accomodation if you have 2 kids and need a 3-bedder - I think you would be spending about half that on rent. Is it 40k takehome or before tax?

We spend an additional 12k on utilities (water, gas, electricity and drinking water) a month, and then about 2,500 a week on food/groceries/household items. Medical insurance is really expensive as well, I get a company scheme but top up to a better one myself, and thats another 3k per month for myself, DH and DD. So I think its a really tight budget for a family - does your friend have a family, because if not, he may not realise the additional expense this brings!

There are loads of expat teachers in Thailand, but to be honest, at starting grades, most of the ones I have met are pre-family. There are some with families, but they have tended to be more established and headhunted from the UK, so with a good expat salary (150k a month in one case) to match, plus good benefits.

I'll be really honest, I think its really tough to have a good standard of living on 40k a month - you would have to make compromises, and probably wouldn't have lots of money to go away for weekends away, which is one of the benefits for me that gets me past the homesickness (which can be "crying at night" horrendous for me!). Flights are suprisingly expensive internally - 100 pounds return to Krabi from Bangkok, 200 pounds to Phuket, so not a cheap weekend by any means. Accomodation can be cheap but can also be super-skanky!

The other thing that I think is a bit crap is not paying for relocation flights for the whole family - also suggests to me that they aren't targeting families. Will they expect you to work evenings and weekends to give extra lessons (many teachers have to)?

I'd think very carefully about this - as someone further up the board said, there are some really good schools that recruit well and pay well, including accomodation, travel, etc, but this sounds a bit more like a package tailored for a first jobber.

Upsides are the experience for your kids, though, and a chance to live in one of the nicest most amazing countries in the world. What about looking at other schools to see if you can get a better deal?

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corriefan · 06/09/2010 21:15

Hmmm I'm still confused! I meant my friend's accommodation is 5500 baht a month but he's single. For him he lives the life of riley but he's not an extravagant person and probably doesn't appreciate the cost of a family!
There's also the fact that I would like to progress in psychology rather than teaching and not sure how that could help my career. DH really wants to go though. Oh I don't know!

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TheBossofMe · 07/09/2010 02:33

I've never heard of anyone paying just 5500 baht unless its in a fleapit backpackery type place, certainly not somewhere family friendly! To clarify, first post was in pounds, second in baht.

If you're are set on teaching in Thailand, look around for other options - this job sounds a bit of a rip off to me.

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TheBossofMe · 08/09/2010 11:19

Hello! Managed to track down someone who lives in Chiang Mai for you to get a better idea for you on living rates etc. They also know a fair few teachers there in international schools, so hopefully the following is some help (figures are in baht now):

Rent is clearly a lot cheaper than in BKK, but general POV is that 5500 gets you a bit of a fleapit of a family home, with probably no aircon and generally poor standard. But the good news is that 12-15k will rent you a decent house, not necessarily super-central or in the best areas, but in a nice community, often gated, with 3 beds and aircon. Possibly even with a shared pool (this is important since its outdoor playtime for kids!)

Utilities are a bit cheaper, but assuming you aren't blasting the AC all day long, you could get away with another 8-10k on electricity, water, gas and drinking water.

Food is not that much cheaper than the UK if you cook, so I would allow about 10,000 a month on that for a family of four. You can eat much cheaper, oddly enough, if you eat street food, but it gets a bit samey and you may feel uncomfortable feeding it to your kids (I don't let my 2 year old eat street food here), so even if you do eat a couple of times a week for yourself, it would only knock about 2k off your bill.

Insurance is anoth 2-3k a month for any decent family coverage, and you would be mad not to have it here, state hospitals are awful and still pretty expensive for treatment.

So that's pretty much your salary gone before you factor in any going out, going away, new clothes, or anything beyond the basics of living at all. Even if your husband managed to earn another 35k as a TEFL teacher, that still doesn't buy you a great standard of living, since it won't get you home help (to put this into context, maids are paid around the 15-20k mark), weekends away etc.

The teachers my friend knows say that 40k for an experienced expat teacher with no benefits is a rip-off - one of them is on 90k with only 2 years teaching experience in the UK, and then 5 here. They say 40k is a local salary for a single teacher, not what an expat would be paid. They had never heard of an expat teacher not getting things like medical, and whole family relocation costs. They also asked whether the school is paying for work permits, shipping costs etc.

They recommended looking at some proper overseas teaching recruitment agencies if you want to do this, and firmly recommended not taking this job.

Sorry if this sounds a bit harsh, but I've met a few people who have come over here on scandalous packages and end up broke and miserable. You sound very nice, so don't want the same to happen to you!

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kreecherlivesupstairs · 08/09/2010 11:43

Exactly right Boss. Our rent in Bangkok was around 35k for a four bedroom/bathroom flat, electricity was about 7k a month and water, I can't remember. Health insurance was paid by the school. Our home help was on 8 or 9k a month (again, memory fails me). What the OP is looking at seems pretty poor to me. The only thing I'd disagree with you on, apart from HH salary is Koh Samet, I thought it was the dullest place in the world. DD did enjoy it thougn, at her age all she wanted was sand and sea.

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corriefan · 08/09/2010 13:11

Thanks, it's really helpful to get a realistic picture of how much things really cost for a family! Definitely don't want to be struggling, that's not the point at all!

BTW my friend really does pay 5500 for a 2 bed 2 bath flat but did say himself it was quite run down.

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kreecherlivesupstairs · 08/09/2010 13:42

I think most things outside Bangkok are cheaper, even food. Do have a look at Thaivisa.com and the TES overseas pages. I know both helped us make the decision, although it's been nearly four years since we left.

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