Mumsnet Talk

My beloved mil has secondary breast cancer in stomach. Palliative care since two diff types of chemo nearly killed her. Several stays in hospice. Has had stents but bile duct one blocked and attempt to put new one through failed although put one in side. Chose not to have ct scan recently but surgeon implied things have spread. Was stage 4 when diagnosed and has done well to last 2 yrs. Since the last stent surgery she has been in hospice and again nearly died but rallied and came out and was living with us. However, she is now hardly eating, is about 6 stone, has nausea and weakness and has white poo and in pain when on toilet. Are we nearing end? She is buring head in sand and missing appts. Keeps saying she will phone hospice and talk to them but doesn't. Really worried. Should I phone them?

I think phoning the hospice, and seeing if they have nurses who will come out to see her and talk about things would be a very good idea.

I hope the hospice are able to help her and you.

difficult as they should not be discussing her treatment with you.
would she be ok if you volunteered to go with her to an appointment, express how concerned you are.

Hello. I don't have any experience of this although I have had breast cancer. Didnt want to leave your post unanswered though.

I think you should phone them if only to talk things through for you. If they cant talk to you directly at least you will have alerted them

Best wishes for a really hard situation x

She said she was going to ring today but didn't so will ask her to ring for advice tomorrow. Due to have oncology appt mon but worried she isn't going to go as dh said he would leave work and go and she sort of ignored the offer. I am happy to have her with us but have two small dc and work in days so I get really worried about her in the day when she is alone.

Thank you for your msg. She has a v supportive family and I have just phoned her daughter and suggested we phone. Her dd wasn't quite as worried as me but I have spent of time reading Macmillan stuff and just worried we are nearing end ESP if we don't get help soon.

She clearly needs some more effective pain relief if nothing else, and she's scared of what is happening and doesn't want to initiate anything herself. I don't see any harm in phoning the hospice for advice. Why should she drag herself out for appointments when she is so weak and poorly? Her GP might be able to come out and see her and get the ball rolling - worth speaking to them too. They may not be able to discuss her condition with you directly, but you can give them information - she's in pain, tell them about the white poo etc (sign that the tube in her side is blocked again - no bile getting through to gut).
Sorry, sounds awful for all of you. I think you are right that she is nearing the end of her life, and the kindest thing to do is to take some action so that she is made as comfortable as possible. Her current existence sounds pretty miserable, and I totally get the 'head in sand' mentality. Some people really hate asking for help.

Yes it has been awfful. She absolutely does not want to go and has fought well for 2 yrs. She has suffered huge anxiety and depression and has had leave it and see attitude often and often left seeking help untlll too late. Don't think she is sleeping much. She is on fentanyl patches and has had driver on occasions. Anyhow my sil and I are going to talk to beer today and see if we can persuade her to phone today. If she doesn't think will phone hospice Monday ourselves. Thanks for advice and will let everyone know how things go.

So sorry you're going through this.

I nursed my Mum through pancreatic cancer at home, I would encourage you to ring the hospice, ours were a great support to us and were able to pre-empt what we might need and make arrangements ahead of time so that we were able to easily access extra support, carets, equipment etc

WRT discussing her care my Mum was very much the same and didn't want to know time scales etc but she told get GP that he could discuss her care with me. This meant that we could all keep informed and that I could directly arrange things like drugs and home visits, again another thing which helped make things a little easier.

Please feel free to PM me anytime.

Do you have any contact with a Macmillan nurse? When my FIL had cancer, my MIL nursed him at home until he passed away and their Macmillan nurse was a wonderful source of support, advice and help to both of them. I didn't think he would be able to stay at home but he did and this was definitely made possible by the Macmillan nurse. I don't know how you get one though - I thought all cancer patients got one, so to speak. But perhaps something to ask the hospice? I believe they offer help at all stages of living with and dealing with cancer.

I am so sorry you're going through this. I wish I could offer more advice. Take care of yourself, too.

Mil has Macmillan nurse and hospice people. She has sort of kept them away from us but in the summer we did call ourselves and they were v helpful and I have said to her children that it has got to stage that we must call them if worried and not be worried about upsetting her. It has been a tough 2 yr battle and nobody wants to lose her but equally I want her to have the best care. She always said she wanted final days in hospice but has all but moved in with us and has been saying about ending days here. I have been very open with my dc (6 and 2) about nanny being I'll but I am not sure this is best for them and I can not give her the 24hr care she needs as cannot take leave from work unpaid. It is so sad. She has never drank or smoked and is so kind. I also worry that her dc are not q aware that the end is almost here and think may come as a shock. We have had so many scares that think they think she may rally again. God willing she may. She is so anxious and horrified about the end that I also worry about her being so frightened as the time nears.

She has had a good day today!

Very pleased she has had a good day today and I hope that she does indeed rally again!

You've got a huge amount to deal with at the moment, haven't you? It must be a very difficult time for you; you are so obviously trying to do the best you can for all of your family and clearly care very much about everyone involved. I hope everyone else realises how lucky they are to have you as part of their family!

I obviously have no idea about the rest of your family relationships and what the rest of the family want to happen here but my gut instinct tells me you're right that this may be too much to ask of you and your DCs. Forgive me if I'm out of line here, but I just wanted to say it's ok to think about that. Perhaps you could try speaking to a more general Macmillan helpline to get some advice on how best to proceed from here, to help your MIL, your DH and your DCs? They have so much experience of this sort of heartbreaking situation and the advice of a third party who is not emotionally involved could be very useful.

When my bil was dying and sister was struggling to get support I rang the Macmillan centre at the local hospital and spoke to a fantastic woman there who was very helpful. Unfortunately bil's actual macmillan nurse had been useless. I agree you need to get some more support. It may be possible to get carers to come in and help with mil if she stays with you.

It's a hard thing to think about but a death at home can be a really healing experience for the whole family. Hospice is the next best and imo nobody should die an expected death on a hospital ward. A lot of people do but it's not the ideal place to die. However for a death at home to be possible you have to get outside support. Very few people can manage the huge strains alone. So whatever mil does I think YOU would benefit from support from Macmillan or the hospice to talk about how you could make it possible for her to die at home if that is what you all want. For example you can get a hospital bed loaned so that you can adjust her position. Meds can be given through a syringe driver and should include pain relief together with drugs to manage agitation and to dry up secretions in the throat so that the patient stays comfortable and has dignity.

I hope you're having a positive week x

It has been a much more positive week. She has been less weak and sleepy. Some pain and not eating but better than last week. Thanks for asking

Thought would give an update on dear mil. Still living with us. Barely eating but finally listening to docs and trying these nutritional shakes. She hates them but manages one a day. Still v weak. Had scan the other day and saw oncologist. Tumour in stomach not grown but the lumps on belly are metastases. Main prob is bile duct blocked and very dilated. They couldnt get to block stent when last tried and said somehibg about going through side and liver but said they were very reluctant to try this unless really had to. She is feeling rotten today and phoned hospice. She said they did not offer to take her in but I did say she didn't ask either, so all in all she is still slogging away trying her best.

She's very strong isn't she? Ok - how are you all doing? This is a massive stress and strain for you.

Yeah ok. Had a massive guilt this week as lost temper with her for interfering when I was disciplining children. I reminded her it was my house my rules and she got all upset saying she would move back to her house even though she was I'll. Sigh! She didn't of course but I did try and tell her I am doing my best with her, my 2 dc and my ft job and that she needs to give me a bit of space sometime. It is hard at times but I said she could stay and I am committed to that!

Ah yes - being ill doesn't mean you can't also be quite difficult to live with sometimes. I think you're doing great. For your dh caring for her is the natural order of things, for you it's a labour of love. That's really commendable.

Have you let your work know how things stand?

I have told some friends at work and will tell the Head (am teacher) if struggling as not getting lot of sleep ad feeling bit wired at times

That's sensible because there are likely to be some times when you can't make it to work. How is your dh doing?

He is doing ok. Frustrated that she is reluctant to drink these shakes. She got weighed and now 6stone 10 so lost another 3 pounds since her op in early august. She is sleeping on sofa as speak. Seems to have one good day and then one bad day at the mo.

hello mummy just wanted to offer some support. My mum lost her partner in July from Prostate cancer. I had to write something as he had the same towards the end...kidney stents that kept blocking. In the end, there was nothing more that they could do. His cancer was a really rare form that mutated..
towards the end, he stopped eating also. He still drank but very few sips. There is nothing more heartbreaking than seeing someone slip away like that. you know it is going to happen, just not when. We had the good day, bad day scenario too...somehow I never gave up hope that he would recover, especially on those good days.
I'm glad she is in a home environment. That really is the best place for her. Mum's partner had care at home for the last days. They were surprised how long he held out for. The fight in some people is amazing.
Do you have the macmillan nurses coming or similar? It really makes a huge difference. Especially with regards to pain relief.
Are you all able to get some respite? That is also important I feel. My mum never allowed herself to do anything than be with him all the time.
Sending lots of hugs and strengths and if you have any questions, just ask. Take care of yourself x

Thanks for the recent message. I am sorry to hear about your mums partner. Despite a not so bad scan result saying tumour not overly grown, mil is not doing well. Not sure whether it is increased ascites, dilated bile duct or just general state, but she is not good. Barely eating, about 6 stone now, looking v rough, not going out. Feeling particularly rough on 2nd day of patches. Docs said may need to switch to pills. Taking extra oramorph at mo. Throwing up what little food she has and has nausea and pain. On top of that saying a few nasty things about my dh and I about our parenting skills (whilst not perfect we are firm but loving to our two dc). So it is not great. Hospice doc said to go up Mon so she can have a look at stomach (v distended). surgeons not keen to do anymore after failed attempt to unblock bile duct stent in the summer. Hoping hospice may take her in to monitor ESP if they are going to tinker with her pain relief.

Got lumps all under arm now. Hospice doc visiting tomorrow as she can't get up there as we are at work and bit difficult. Still not eating much.

Just posting to say - understand what you are going through. DM has terminal cancer, breast originally, now spread to chest and stomach, with several large lumps/tumours. Still at home with DF currently (as is her wish) with Dr, MacMillan nurse and district nurse visiting weekly. DM is only 6 stone (medical term is cachexic I believe - basically no appetite/unable to eat due to her illness) and on protein drinks, which she is barely taking in also. It is heartbreaking, seeing someone you love have to struggle like this day to day. I visit each day and just try to take it one day at a time - I find it to be the best way of coping - although some days (especially the bad days) I just go back home and have a cry. Dr hasn't really given a prognosis of how long we have but at least I feel a little better knowing that the support systems are being put in place to help DM try to stay in her own home to the end (home visits, care plan etc) and to respect her wishes.x

Thanks for the message. I am sorry to hear about your dm. They sound like they are in a very similar way. Dm in law is about 6stone and struggling to have even one of those shakes. Any food now seems to make her throw up. She is on high dose of fentanyl patches but doc wants her to switch to pills as possibly not working as she is so fine and no fat on her to absorb the morphine from patches. She hasn't switched yet as frightened of pain starting. Surgeons have said cant get to blockage as slipped stent in stomach preventing them so not sure much more can be done. Lumps also appearing almost on daily basis in armpit and groin area. She has good and bad days but has survived 3 yrs this xmas from diagnosis of this awful secondary cancer. God willing she will have more and as I hope your dm will also.

Poor dm in law still in pain, puking up when tries to eat and stomach v distended. Saw hospice doc today and they felt that it was tumour causing probs and not blocked stent. Think taking her in Fri to get her more comfortable.

Dear mil went into hospice last fri and stayed there. Had odd good day but struggling with symptoms. Couldn't get up there today but phoned and was totally out of it. Spoke to nurse and said she had suffered alot of pain today and had alot of morphine. Sis in law went up but told not to stay long so she could rest. Said docs will review tomorrow. When such huge doses are having to be administered on top of patches, does it mean the end is near. Her youngest daughter went away for a week yesterday and wondering if she should be called.

Dear mil stomach is now completely obstructed and nothing getting threw. Also sedating her due to pain. Think we are in last few days/hours.

Im so sorry to hear this. It must be terrifying for her and dreadful for you and your family to watch.

so sorry to hear this....such a tough time. Take care of yourself and your family x

Thanks for your words. Dear MIL is still clinging to life. Sedated much of time and no real sign yesterday of drinking any water. Managed to rouse when we took kids and respond when ds cried. Managed to say love you. I have a v sad 6th old dd

So sorry to hear this, what an awful experience for everyone. Thinking of you all at this sad time xx

We've just been through this with my MIL

Just take each day at a time, and be there for each other. DH spent 6 days with MIL at the end and while she was peaceful I think there was relief when she died. Once you know there's no point of return it's a blessing.

I hope she is comfortable and peaceful.

She had a good day yesterday. Didn't make alot of sense, but sat up and awake.

DMILaw is in what we think is last day of life. Left work early to see her yesterday but she has not passed yet and not sure I can face going to work today. Is it acceptable for me not to go in?

Yes of course it's acceptable not to go into work. It does sound like the last day is here although no one can be certain. Be gentle on yourself and DH, it is a horrible time, we went through it with both my parents and I think that it is a relief in the end.
Look after yourself and I hope, for all your sakes, that it isn't too long.

I didn't go in. We all went in. So horrible. Death rattle. Grey. Eyes and mouth open. We want her to go but she is clinging in. Can't have drank for 3 days so the end must be near.

How awful for you all. Take care of yourselves, and I hoping that it won't be long before she is at peace.

So sorry to read this. Be kind to yourselves at this time xx

Dh just heading back up there and I am staying at home watching the kiddies. I think she would like to hear kiddies but although my dd 6 has seen nanny v sick I think she will find this end of life look too frightening

Feel for your all.

Mil threatened it a few times but didn't pass. I feel bad for taking day off now and now faced with a ds with a temp today as well and a dh who obv wants to be at hospice and not do childcare. What on eArth do I do re work!

I am so sorry, it is a terrible time for you all.

I lost my mum, dad and sister to cancer and I do understand what you are saying about the death rattle, greyness and, well, all of it.

Your MIL and your family will be in my thoughts today.

Sorry, meant to add that your work (hopefully)will understand. This is not normal circumstances and of course you need to be able to be with your MIL and DH.

Once again, I am sorry.

Oh mummynumnum

How very very hard for you all as a family. Keeping yourself going whilst caring is tough and even more so when you're caring for DC, DH and juggling full time work

I'm a boss. If you came to me (on telephone) and said how torn you we're, want to work but MiL expected to die each day, child poorly, DH distressed I'd not hesitate to tell you where you should be. I know not every work situation is like that

Can I suggest you visit your GP. PLEASE

Talk to them about this situation. Ask for some time off.. One week would just take pressure off you and you need it for your own health

Have you thought about seeing your GP and being signed off work. My docs did this when I was caring for Mum at home in the final stages. They said there was no way I could look after her, 2 DC and be expected to function at work too.

Helped take the pressure off, keeping you and your family in my thoughts.

Family just called to hospice as breathing changed. So changed everything and not going to work and doing son at docs instead. Praying now that her suffering ends.

Please consider GP for you.

Cabbage leaves-thank you. You sound like a v thoughtful boss!

Oh OP. what a terrible time for you. <hugs>

Just wanted to post to wish you luck & strength- you sound like a lovely daughter in law

I'm a boss who treats people as I would wish to be treated

You started this thread recognising MiL could really benefit from engaging with medics and get some assistance. You sound so caring but stressed I'd like to think you took your own advice. You are 'support' for that family right now. Time off will get you space to do that well

Dear mummy I am saying a prayer for peace for your MIL. Don't even think about work. My dear mum died last month of advanced bowel cancer so your posts are painfully familiar. DH was able to be with me ( away from home) for some of the time, his HR dept allowed compassionate leave of five days and I think they would have allowed more unpaid. Is there anyone at work you can call to check this out?

Thinking of you and your MIL. Cancer is such an evil disease.

Still clinging o. Breath v short and sharp though x

Thinking of you and praying for peace for your MIL.

My thoughts are with you and your family.

Thinking of you all. Lost my DM at the weekend - last couple of days so painful to endure, much as you describe with DMIL. Felt as if my heart was being ripped out. Just trying to take comfort from the fact that she is finally at peace and in no more pain from that awful disease xx

Thinking of you all. We lost my wonderful granny to bowel cancer 4 years ago now, but the last days stay with you. At the very end she was very peaceful and fully reconciled to going, and I hoe your MIL finds the same peace.

My dh and his bro and sisters are all staying at the hospice with her tonight. Apparently her breathing is v shallow. At home with dc in bed and trying to keep myself occupied.

Sorry

I'm sorry. Thinking of you all and sending you my love.

Sorry to read your updates. Thinking of you

She passed away at 11pm. V sad.

Oh my love, I'm so sorry x This is the first time I have seen your thread, I've just read all of your posts No matter how much of a relief it is that they are no longer in pain, it still hurts so much - so so much. Please pass my thoughts onto your DH too, no matter how old you are, losing a parent is very very hard. Lots of love xxx

So sorry to read this. Wishing you and your family courage & strength to deal with this difficult time

Sorry to hear your news, yet glad she is not suffering any more. xxx

So sorry for your loss, but also glad her suffering is at an end. Take care.

She is at peace mummy. I hope you and your family has support in their time to grieve. So sorry for your loss

I'm so sorry. I hope it will be a comfort that you did so much for her, and that her children could be with her at the end.

Wishing you all strength and peace.

I'm sorry for your loss. Be very gentle with yourself. You've all just run a long, long race and you won't know how tired you are yet. In a few days it will start to kick in. Just take things very slow and give yourself time to grieve. An expected death is still a shattering blow.

Leaving warm hugs and a shoulder for you. I'm so very sorry you've all been through this.

We've recently been through this ourselves, and are nearly the end for another family member.

Take what help/support you need for yourself and your family.

Most of all, be kind to yourself

RIP lovely lady

Sorry for your loss.

Ah, I saw this at the top of the forum, and wondered how your dear MIL was getting on.

Sad for you and your family; her release is still your loss.

Thanks for all the kind messages. It is a huge loss and one that in the mayhem of sorting funerals/financial matters out etc has not q hit us fully yet a dreadful loss for us all. Such a brave, lovely lady!

(((hugs)))) to you and your DH. Hope you can get through the bureaucracy quickly and have some time to grieve.

We had dear mil funeral service friday. A lovely send off for a lovely lady. Has been so crazy till then-work/paperwork/funeral planning. Since the funeral though not been able to stop thinking of her and so many things are reminding me of her. . My dd is beginning to really miss her. Wish it wasn't real

Oh my love, it hurts so very much doesn't it

You just want them back - so so much.

It is horribly hard anytime of the year - but around Christmas it just seems that bit harder, everyone else is cheerful and planning Christmas and, if you are anything like me, you just can't face it and feel a bit 'how can they go on as though nothing has happened???' <which of course for strangers - even friends - it hasn't>.

I wish there was something I could say that would make you feel a bit better - but sadly I know from bitter experience there really isn't.

I know some people think it's 'trite/crap/pathetic' but I actually find that this little saying does help a bit 'It isn't about waiting for the storm to pass, it's about learning to dance in the rain'. It sort of reminds me to try to find the good in the day and allow myself to enjoy little things without feeling like I have to 'be over it' or guilty that I've enjoyed a little bit of the day.

I'm sitting here crying - for you, for your DH, for your kids and for me and mine. It's just so crap isn't it
xxx

Just wanted to post to see how you are, mummynumnum. In all the fall-out of emotions and gathering of a lifetime at the death of your dear MIL, I hope you found some time for joy at Christmas.

Hi. Thanks for asking after us. Made most of christmas and enjoyed it. We are doing ok. Dd is coping well. Ds thinks nanny a hospital still. Does not really understand what we are saying re nanny dying and being an angel now. I have gone from being almost on a manic high the first few weeks, to a bit emotional, to now when
I just think about her alot. Even listened to an old voice message I found of hers today. Her dd are more expressive about feelings than my dh. He is saying not even thinking about it much, but he looks shattered and has been getting few infections where I think he is run down. In spite of everything though we did a good job at Xmas and kids loved it. Mil ashes were even under the tree