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£100 per week better off apart and one less adult.

(84 Posts)
Offred Fri 03-May-13 17:11:49

My husband is a supposed high earner.

I have just checked how money would be if we split, I would have to claim benefits as young children and currently studying.

After he has paid tax our income for six is £100 less per WEEK than we would get if he left and I claimed benefits. Surely this isn't correct? This is without CSA payments and we wouldn't have the expense of feeding him and paying his bills...

HeySoulSister Fri 03-May-13 17:17:57

yes,it probably is right.

CarolBornAMan Fri 03-May-13 17:20:27

I imagine it would mean what you mean by high earner, what benefits you are expecting to get and if you are entitled to them.. plus factor in the new benefits cap coming .. might be useful to see how you came to this conclusion first for us to comment?

HappyAsASandboy Fri 03-May-13 17:23:08

It is probably right.

But between the two of you, you would have to fund two homes with two sets of bills. That will cost you more than £100 per week.

Or did you mean that you would get more than his net salary, and he would still have his salary to support himself? If that's the case, then I am surprised (and a bit saddened that it is financially better for your children to live in a separated family than a cohabiting one).

sooperdooper Fri 03-May-13 17:23:45

How much is 'High earner' and what benefits are you looking at, are you actually leaving him or is it a hypothetical question?

shelli135 Fri 03-May-13 17:27:13

Yes probably correct, when myself an DP separated I was better of than when we had two wages coming in.

It's no wonder people commit benefit fraud.

Restorer Fri 03-May-13 17:33:39

Shouldn't he may maintenance? That would count as income and affect the level of benefits you could claim. (wouldn't it?)

If you are currently SAHM, once your youngest DC reaches 7yo, you would have to prove you were looking for work.

Offred Fri 03-May-13 18:22:19

Not affected by benefits cap.

CSA apparently isn't counted in claim for income support or child tax credits.

We would get more than his net monthly income and additionally be entitled to CSA and he would have his salary for himself. Apparently, according to online info and calculators. Would also have my uni fees paid and be entitled to free school meals/dentistry etc.

Offred Fri 03-May-13 18:23:06

I would be looking for work when youngest was 7 (3 now) am currently studying for a degree so I can get a not shit job.

Offred Fri 03-May-13 18:24:07

It is hypothetical, was just interested.

Offred Fri 03-May-13 18:27:17

Only thing could have messed it up is that I have worked it out using actual net income and his tax code may be incorrect.

CarolBornAMan Fri 03-May-13 19:18:53

so how much does he earn and how much would you get - can you put this into real numbers?

CogitoErgoSometimes Fri 03-May-13 19:28:51

It could easily be right but - as pointed out earlier - you'd be running two households, two lots of rent/mortgage, two sets of utility bills, two of everything. So your extra £100 would be wiped out very quickly... and some.

Offred Fri 03-May-13 19:37:32

I don't feel I should give exact details tbh.

It isn't an extra £100 in total cog it is if we separated, he took his earnings out of the household and had them for running his household and I went onto benefits or if I'd never lived with him and had simply been on income support. The benefits would be £100 per week more than his pay on their own, not taking into account whatever his own earnings were that he used to pay for his own separate household.

Like I say, hypothetical though.

ivykaty44 Fri 03-May-13 19:51:21

you are studying - so as far as I know not looking for work? If you are not seeking work then it used to be that you couldn't claim unemployment benefit as you are not in fact unemployed but a student.

I had a b/f with three children and his wife left - he had to claim unemployment benefit as he couldn't continue working (3am start with his job and no childcare provision) but then he went to study and all his benefits stopped apart from child benefit. he hardly scraped by with a mortgage to pay and his parents used to do the shopping once a fortnight and pay for it. it got better when he was at uni as he got a grant and other money to help him as a mature student.

Offred Fri 03-May-13 19:56:58

I'm only a part time student with OU. It only affects benefits if you are full time. Two of my dc are under 5 so would be entitled to income support, child tax credits according to the calculator.

Offred Fri 03-May-13 19:58:53

I know it is hard to get to grips with without actual details.

SofaKing Fri 03-May-13 20:03:05

I didn't think you were entitled to any fees help if you were with the OU I'd be interested in studying there if you do! Tell me I'm wrong so I can go and browse courses grin

ivykaty44 Fri 03-May-13 20:03:26

you said your husband was a high earner, average wage in the uk is around £26k. If your husband is a high earner then he is going to be earning above £30k at least to qualify as a high earner.

So £100 a week more than a higher earner is a big/large amount of benefits.

So if we take a meager 30k earnings and deduct tax to get a net wage we are looking at 445.59 per week

So you are saying that you would be getting over £500 per week on benefits?

lougle Fri 03-May-13 20:05:37

Are you counting the fact that you might claim Housing Benefit rather than having a mortgage?

I ask because Tax Credits do not discriminate between couples and a lone parent, so the child tax credit award would stay exactly the same (obv. affected by the reduced income, though) and the working tax credits would stop.

Offred Fri 03-May-13 20:07:44

You're not anymore. I started in 2011 and am on the old fees system. Everyone new has to have the new student loan.

Offred Fri 03-May-13 20:08:11

We don't qualify for any tax credits now.

Offred Fri 03-May-13 20:09:11

But it isn't strictly true that anyway. Tax credits are awarded based on the household income. If we were separated then he wouldn't be in our household.

lougle Fri 03-May-13 20:11:01

Of course. Although, CSA is going to be taken into account in Universal Credit.

Offred Fri 03-May-13 20:11:38

The benefits; HB, IS, CB and TC would be more than £500 per week yes.

Offred Fri 03-May-13 20:13:50

Is CSA going to be taken into account for universal credit?

JakeBullet Fri 03-May-13 20:17:16

Wow! I am actually ON benefits and have nothing LIKE that amount coming in.....even factoring in disability benefits for my son, are you sure you have this correct? How many children have you got?

lougle Fri 03-May-13 20:19:59

Seems only the spousal elements of maintenance, not child maintenance.

Booyhoo Fri 03-May-13 20:23:25

do you have 3 children? also, is this including HB and is your rent high?

ivykaty44 Fri 03-May-13 20:23:52

I have just used entitled to and put in

three children between 1-9 years

and a mortgage of 95k with a council tax band of c

the results are:
£167.16 child tax credit
£138.01 income support
The estimate includes an amount for interest payments on your mortgage and any other housing-related costs you have. You will only qualify for the element associated with housing costs after 13 weeks on benefit.
£19.25 council tax as you do not have to pay any council tax as you get £167.16 in child tax credit
£47.10 child benefit
£371.52 total

Plus

free school meals and free prescriptions

Booyhoo Fri 03-May-13 20:24:19

sorry. family of six so 4 children? in that case then including HB that sounds about right TBH.

Offred Fri 03-May-13 20:24:20

Four and in a fairly high rent area but up north.

Offred Fri 03-May-13 20:26:04

LHA is £595 per month.

Booyhoo Fri 03-May-13 20:26:17

yep could easily see it then.

CarolBornAMan Fri 03-May-13 21:26:14

but you are not saying what you mean by your "high earner" DH to allow us to compare - what you think is high earner is meaningless here until you tell us and it is already well known that average salary earners are sometimes not that much better off than people on benefits.

I think you are being inflammatory by not providing the exact details of the entire benefits system- what exactly is your point?

CarolBornAMan Fri 03-May-13 21:28:57

and the HB, IS, CB and TC benefits will come under the cap so I still think you are being disingenuous with your entire post

Offred Fri 03-May-13 21:33:19

The point is that if you have a large family you lose out in the tax system and would be financially better off apart if you don't qualify for any tax credits etc.

They wouldn't come under the cap because they wouldn't be over the amount of the cap. hmm

ballstoit Fri 03-May-13 21:36:35

Are you looking at LHA for a 4 bed house? And if that figure makes you better off than your dhs income, then you should.be getting child tax credits as that means your DHs 'high wage' is only £20k.

Offred Fri 03-May-13 21:38:13

No, because we'd only be entitled to a 3 bed house.

CarolBornAMan Fri 03-May-13 21:39:51

so in reality your high earning DH does not earn that much and so does overlap in the benefits system?

why not just come out with it?

Offred Fri 03-May-13 21:40:14

Not sure how you've arrived at £20k. We're not entitled to any tax credits. We (he) pay a lot of tax.

Offred Fri 03-May-13 21:41:09

Why does it matter to you so much that I tell you my dh's earnings? His basic salary is more than double £20k.

ballstoit Fri 03-May-13 21:43:48

Tax is in bands, if he earns enough to be higher rate tax band, then his net pay will be more than £20k, which would be £100 a week less than your £500 a week benefits.

CarolBornAMan Fri 03-May-13 21:43:55

so why not give us your breakdown as plenty of people are saying it does not add up.. why not show us how you derive your numbers rather than this drip feed..

IF he earns say £50K per year, as per your statement, please show us how the state would allow you to earn more than this on your own

Offred Fri 03-May-13 21:45:45

I'm not drop feeding, I'm simply refusing to detail another person's exact salary on a public forum. I'm sorry if that disappoints you.

Ballstoit I don't know where you are getting your figures from.

Up thread I already said it may be an anomaly with his tax code (which has happened before).

CarolBornAMan Fri 03-May-13 21:48:12

so show me how I can earn your husbands ballpark salary of £50K then on benefits..

How can he earn more than £40k and take home £400 a week? No one pays that much tax.

CarolBornAMan Fri 03-May-13 21:51:17

£50K a year salary is about £3K a month take home .. or about £700 / week before any deductions.. just in case you dont know

Offred Fri 03-May-13 21:51:57

Err... You know that someone doesn't actually take home all their pay don't you? They have to pay tax on that salary and as I said earlier that is dependent on having the correct tax code.

Why are you being so arsey?

ballstoit Fri 03-May-13 21:54:07

I'm getting my figures from you confused

You said that the £500 ish you'd get in benefits is £100 more than your dh earns a week. So, even my exhausted Friday evening brain can make that your DH supposedly brings home £400 a week.

If his salary is £40k, £10k ish is tax free (making £200 a week), and the other £30k is taxed at about 20%, so he'd keep £24k ish. So his net pay should be about £34k. Which is not £400 a week.

Tax code anomoly? more like bullshitty benefit bashing by stealth

Offred Fri 03-May-13 21:55:05

Where exactly have I benefit bashed?

ballstoit Fri 03-May-13 21:56:17

To clarify why people are being arsey see the final line of my last post.

What are you studying? Journalism sponsored by the Daily Fail?

CarolBornAMan Fri 03-May-13 21:57:44

I am being factual - your DH brings home about £700 a week - I have asked you to show how the state will provide you with more than that - what is your problem with supporting your original post?

ballstoit Fri 03-May-13 21:57:53

Pretending that benefits gives you more cash than a high earners salary is stealth bashing IMO

Offred Fri 03-May-13 21:58:59

I'm not benefit bashing. I'm pissed off that we'd apparently be better off apart and as I asked in the original post thinking that can't be right... If people are being arsey because they have decided to read into the post things I have not written and which are entirely inconsistent with anything else I've posted on here or that I think then I think they need to reconfigure their knickers.

CarolBornAMan Fri 03-May-13 21:59:26

the £700 is after tax - you do understand this right? just checking you dont see your DH pre tax salary as the same as paid benefits ..

Offred Fri 03-May-13 22:00:07

I'm not pretending, that is what you have decided.

We, as people would undoubtedly be better off apart, no matter the actual fine differences between income on benefits because we would have virtually or actually double the income if we split.

Offred Fri 03-May-13 22:01:09

(And not double the outgoings)

CarolBornAMan Fri 03-May-13 22:01:53

you have said you think it cant be right - and we have all asked you to show how you arrived at the numbers. You have not.

Not sure of the point to an unsubstantiated post .. I may as well post why do people not say I am as beautiful as Kate Moss and not post a photo. If you want support , post your evidence for gods sake

ballstoit Fri 03-May-13 22:02:03

Okay, the answer to your question is, no. It is not correct. And nor apparently is your husbands tax code.

Offred Fri 03-May-13 22:03:16

I can't post my husband's wage, it isn't my information to share. People appear to have been perfectly able to highlight what may be the problem without the exact wage so I'm afraid your point seems rather irrelevant.

ballstoit Fri 03-May-13 22:03:56

Go for it then...all that extra cash will make being a lp a walk in the effing park angry

That just can't be right. You'd get around 140 hb, 60 pw per child, 70 income support plus cb. With 4 kids that would be...around 500 per week, yup. And your dh earns over £40k and takes home £400 a week? I don't see how that is possible. When I was full time on £28k I took home more than that.

CarolBornAMan Fri 03-May-13 22:07:44

I think it is your post that is groundless as you cant show us how the state will support you and your kids on more money than your husband earns, despite it being anonymous and your ability to provide a ballpark figure - not sure what your intent was but I would say, better luck next time with trying to put forward an intelligent argument

Offred Fri 03-May-13 22:08:37

please, readjust your judgy pants... I am not benefit bashing... Exactly the opposite in fact. People who know me would find the suggestion I might do that absolutely unbelievable. One year we over paid £6k on an income of £49k before tax. Possible tax code is very wrong although meant to have been sorted.

CarolBornAMan Fri 03-May-13 22:11:07

so I go back to my original point - show me how I can earn over £45K a year on benefits.

Plus if you currently pay a mortgage rather than rent then a decent chunk of that monthly outgoing is investment rather than proper outgoing. Are you adding up your dh's wage after pension contributions? Because that's another investment. Deduct what he pays in capital on the mortgage and towards his pension from your outgoings and you will find his income £££ goes up considerably.

louisianablue2000 Fri 03-May-13 22:11:54

Ah, so in a previous year he underpaid tax so now he is overpaying tax to balance that? I'm assuming he is self employed?

ssd Fri 03-May-13 22:12:36

op, is this a stealth benefit bashing thread???

if you feel you'd be better off without your high earning dh supporting you, go ahead, separate, live on benefits for a year, come back and tell us how cushy you have it

hmm

seriously

CarolBornAMan Fri 03-May-13 22:12:41

why can you not show us your workings out - does not matter what your high earning DH earns - just show me more than £45K as my hard working DH teacher earns just £35K ..

You are benefit bashing (maybe inadvertently) because you are suggesting that you could have a better income and therefore quality of life if you were a LP on benefits rather than living with your high rate taxpayer husband. Believe me, living on benefits doesn't pay better than working. It just doesn't.

ssd Fri 03-May-13 22:13:40

"people who know me"

ask them, then

SodaStreamy Fri 03-May-13 22:22:26

I'm reading this more as if the OP and her husband separated 'on paper' and she claimed benefits they would have more money , which of course they would but if they were still a couple just living in separate locations and pretending to be a single parent they would also be committing benefit fraud

CarolBornAMan Fri 03-May-13 22:27:29

I think she is more of a DM reader getting hysterical over benefits for larger families as she is not prepared to give actual numbers here ..

there is something not ringing true about any of her posts as nothing is backed up

ivykaty44 Fri 03-May-13 22:41:24

Op

If your dh earns 49k then his take home pay should be £681 per week

If you dh earns 40k then his take home pay should be £576 per week

you are saying op that your income would be £100 per week more than this -so nearly £700 per week for 4 children and yourself

You are living in cloud cuckoo land and that is why you can't come up with the figures - you don't have the figures

CogitoErgoSometimes Sat 04-May-13 07:27:59

If he's only paid £6k tax on a £49k income you are looking at one hell of a bill for tax arrears.... hmm Presume he's registered for self-assessment to deal with the High Income CB charge?

Even if your current family income is £500/week and your benefits would amount to £600/week I still think it would cost your 'ex' far more than £400/month to live independently.

JakeBullet Sat 04-May-13 07:28:37

You say you are not benefit bashing, okay but what exactly is your point here.

I only have one child and prior to being in benefits I had a job which paid £14,500. I am now in benefits and am significantly worse off.....even allowing for housing benefit and council tax benefit. In fact since benefit changes I am even worse off as I now contribute to the council tax.

My income is nothing like £500 a week (I wish) AND that includes extra disability payments as my son is autistic.

You are anonymous here so I cannot understand why you cannot share the information you are being asked for.

HappyMummyOfOne Sat 04-May-13 11:24:01

I dont think your figures are right, there is a cal in place now where you cant claim more than £25k in benefits and gross that does not equal a higher rate ta layer. It can only go above £25k if you claim WTC or disability.

Many are better off though on benefits than working hence the cap. A single person in a cheap area with one child could get

£80 CB
£240 tax credits
£280 inome suppport
£80 council tax help
£350 rent

Thats around £12k net for not working. Play around with the figures on entitled to and add higher rents or more children and its very easy to see why many choose to live on benefits rather than work.

Surely though OP you are proud that your support your children yourselves and dont want them to grow up on benefits. Studies linked to FSM show tha children fare worse on benefits hence the pupil premium paid to schools for those qualifying children.

JakeBullet Sat 04-May-13 13:03:09

Income support is not £280 a month HappyMummy, I can assure you of that because I claim it AND I get slightly more because DS is disabled. I get £180 a month and £60 of that is the addition for DS's disability. It would be slightly higher but they deduct Carers Allowance from it.

EntitledTo is a good website but not THAT accurate...it is only a guide. I am worse off financially out of work than in work and I only earned £14k.

As for the OP...am waiting for her to say just WHY she has started tis thread if not to bash those of us who have to claim benefits for whatever reason.

....also waiting to hear why people are not rushing to give up their jobs so that they too can live on our fabulous benefits system. Maybe because work gives more than financial reward.

HappyMummyOfOne Sat 04-May-13 13:24:21

Income support is listed as being £71 a week for a lone parent as basic without any other elements so £280 is correct according to the internet sites.

People work and dont claim for many reasons, pride in providing for yourself and the choices you make, children fare better in working households, adult company etc. If everyone decided to not work, we wouldnt have a benefit system.

If it was a true bare bones welfare system then we would not have needed the cap, would not have needed the so called bedroom tax or the stricter measures of ensuring people work when they are physically able too.

sweetkitty Sat 04-May-13 13:37:46

I have four DC and entitled to say I would be entitled to a mac of 23K a year so that was CB, IS, HB, CTC etc did not include free school meals though, that's £10 a week per week per child in school. We get free prescriptions as in Scotland, dental check ups are free but dental work for adults is not unless you are on benefits.

23K tax free would be equivalent to what maybe 30-32K before tax, then you have to factor in actual costs of working, getting to work, work clothes, lunches etc. And that's even before you go down the paying for childcare route.

So if I was a single parent it would definitely not be worth my while to work unless I was earning in the region of 40K to allow for childcare, that's quite sad really isnt it?

JakeBullet Sat 04-May-13 13:38:36

Well i can assure you that I get nothing like that amount. Actually in looking at it, they deduct my Carers Allowance and my Child Benefit too. Both those things are counted as "income" on my paperwork and are deducted from the Income Support I get....hence my payment from IS is less rosy than your figures.

I could just NOT claim but as we can't eat "pride", it's nice to know there is a safety net.

ivykaty44 Sat 04-May-13 15:58:19

sweet kitty -£23.170k net income would = £30k per year income.

If you add on the free school meals then it is £32k

But of course as soon as the youngest gets to school age work will be expected and demanded.

Then child care costs will mount up for 9 weeks in the summer 4x £100 plus the other 39 term time weeks and although you get some contribution to child care it doesn't cover it all and unless it changes by more than £10 for more than 4 weeks they don't count it.

So half term holidays and easter or christmas you will be paying out a lot of money for child care.

sweetkitty Sat 04-May-13 18:18:53

That's the thing though ivykaty take a job at even the national average 25K a year if you could get one, take off rent, council tax, elec & gas, phone, food, travel, other bills, then childcare on top and I really don't know how a single parent would manage to live. I know a lot manage on an awful lot less though, is that because of tax credits?

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