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How much does his ex really get?

(505 Posts)
WaspFactory Wed 09-Jan-13 11:11:34

How much money does a single parent get in benefits? I ask because my partner is paying his ex over the odds in maintenance because he thinks she is getting next to nothing. However, a friend of mine says his ex gets more money than him due to the amount of benefit she receives.

Can anyone tell me how much (roughly) per month it's possible to get as a single SAHM with one child? Bearing in mind that she is living in their old house with a mortgage on it?

Booyhoo Wed 09-Jan-13 11:13:09

it's none of your business because what she gets doesn't effect what your partner should pay. if he wants to give more thats up to him.

how long is a piece of string?!

Would you like to tell us what you earn first?

The maintenance is for his DCs not his ex wife.

WaspFactory Wed 09-Jan-13 11:16:51

Thanks Booyhoo. Sadly it is my business because we live together and share finances, plus we want to have a child together in the near future.

Just after an idea of what she might be entitled to. For instance, can you get housing benefit to pay the mortgage? If she got a part-time job when SD starts full-time school in September, how will that affect things? etc.

Booyhoo Wed 09-Jan-13 11:19:24

it's still none of your business what she gets in benefits because as i said, what she gets DOES NOT AFFECT WHAT HE HAS TO PAY!

stop trying to pry into her financial affairs! she is entitled to financial privacy.

WaspFactory Wed 09-Jan-13 11:19:43

AKiss - not sure why it's relevant what I earn but thanks for your advice.

WaspFactory Wed 09-Jan-13 11:20:50

Booyhoo - sorry if I've hit a nerve, I only ask because he could pay a lot less and might have to, we don't want her to struggle but we will need to find a better balance, eventually.

Booyhoo Wed 09-Jan-13 11:21:06

he would have to pay 15% of his income whether she gets every benefit going or is millionaire. her income does not affect what he has to pay for the upkeep of his child!

groundhogday17 Wed 09-Jan-13 11:21:32

I'm not sure what financial privacy you get when your income comes from the state. Most information is publicly available in terms of state benefits I would have thought

WaspFactory Wed 09-Jan-13 11:22:14

Yes, I'm aware of that, he pays more than the minimum and I don't think she's being honest about her situation.

groundhogday17 Wed 09-Jan-13 11:22:21

"her income does not affect what he has to pay for the upkeep of his child"

My reading of the OP was that he was paying in excess of what he "has to pay", so not sure your comment is relevant

Booyhoo Wed 09-Jan-13 11:22:50

dont try and pull that shite with me. you aren't concerned about her struggling! you want her to go back to work thinking it'll cost you your OH less in maintenance. well it wont. he'll still be liable for 15% of his income.

WaspFactory Wed 09-Jan-13 11:23:47

groundhog - it's hard to actually work out what she would get, I've never been in her situation so I thought it would be quick and easy to ask on here.

Booyhoo Wed 09-Jan-13 11:24:15

groundhog, if you re read my post you will see that i said "does not affect what he HAS (as in compulsory minimum) to pay" i didn't say what he is paying.

WaspFactory Wed 09-Jan-13 11:25:47

Booyhoo - I am concerned about her struggling, I care about my SD. He pays her a lot more than 15% currently.

Portofino Wed 09-Jan-13 11:26:01

What does your DP have to say about this?

Booyhoo Wed 09-Jan-13 11:26:22

and groundhog, OP has no idea of the mother's benefit status. unless she has access to her account she has no clue what is being received. she can only guess based on figures provided by Govt but those are guidelines.

LineRunner Wed 09-Jan-13 11:26:56

I am a lone parent and I have never had a penny of help towards the mortgage even when on very low pay.

Rikalaily Wed 09-Jan-13 11:27:51

Believe me when I say that single mothers on benefits do not get much at all, I was on benefits for a while after my ex left and had three children, my rent and council tax were fully paid but I still only had about £30 a month left over after I'd paid for everything else (I had just £90 to cover everything for Christmas that year and it was just awful), my ex contributed nothing for the first two years.

But as previous posters have said, it's neither here nor there what she gets, your partner is paying for his child and if he's willing to contribute more than the CSA level then good on him for doing what is right by his child. This is just something that you will have to live with as you chose to be with a man who already had a child.

WaspFactory Wed 09-Jan-13 11:27:59

I was hoping for something along the lines of "I'm a single SAHM and I get £XXX per month in my hand + £XXX housing benefit + £XXX CT benefit, etc."

groundhogday17 Wed 09-Jan-13 11:28:07

I did read your post Booyhoo. And the OP wasn't questioning him continuing to pay what he "has to pay", moreover the fact that he is paying above this.

Wasp - yes I can imagine it's difficult to work out. I was questionning people suggesting she should have financial privacy when her income is from the state and benefit amounts are freely publicised

BigPigLittlePig Wed 09-Jan-13 11:29:12

Sympathies - my dh was paying well above the necessary amount to his ex-p because she "couldnt pay the bills" Could afford to go out and get pissed 3 times a week though

Luckily for us this has now been addressed - he pays what the CSA suggest he should (there's an online calculator), and for bigger expenses eg, new school uniform, school trips etc we split the costs. We would never see his dd go without, but equally, his ex-p needs to take some responsibility for her own finances and cut costs accordingly like the rest of us do

Booyhoo Wed 09-Jan-13 11:30:04

"I was hoping for something along the lines of "I'm a single SAHM and I get £XXX per month in my hand + £XXX housing benefit + £XXX CT benefit, etc." "

yes i know exactly what you were hoping for! again. none of your business.

groundhogday17 Wed 09-Jan-13 11:32:04

Goodness day in day out I see threads where an OP is asking about stuff that could well come under the "none of your business" banner. Funnilly eniough on other topics no-one really actually says that though.

Booyhoo Wed 09-Jan-13 11:32:10

my comment is still relevant groundhog because the woman's income does NOT affect the 15% minimum that he has to pay!

Alibabaandthe40nappies Wed 09-Jan-13 11:32:42

Wasp - do you think it is reasonable that your SD should lose out because you and your partner decide to have a baby?

What is your DP's view? Because he sounds like a decent bloke paying what he thinks is a fair amount. My DH earns very good money, and even 15% of his salary is still fuck all when you think of all the things that children need. A warm dry house, food, clothes, some toys, books, school trips, days out, the occasional holiday, shoes, music lessons, ballet classes, rugby club - all things you would like to be able to give your (as yet hypothetical) child, yes?

I would encourage that level of understanding in a man I was thinking about having babies with - not persuading him that children don't need much really, because it might put ideas in his head about what you do and don't need while you're on mat leave, or if your relationship breaks down in future.

Be careful what you wish for.

Booyhoo Wed 09-Jan-13 11:33:10

hmm people say NOYB all the time on here!

groundhogday17 Wed 09-Jan-13 11:33:11

But the OP isn't asking about how much he has to pay, or questionning it, so you bringing that up is irrelevant

Booyhoo Wed 09-Jan-13 11:33:45

her income is still none of OP's business.

Alibabaandthe40nappies Wed 09-Jan-13 11:35:15

Wasp - benefits to single mothers now get cut quite sharply when their youngest child is 5, this is a big change from how things were a couple of years ago. So as time goes on your SD will need more, not less, of her father's money.

ArtexMonkey Wed 09-Jan-13 11:35:30

What booyhoo and alibaba said.

If you don't think you can afford to have a baby with your dp and the financial situation as it stands, you should think about

A) finding another job yourself

B) finding another dp.

His existing child was here first, tough tits. He sounds really lovely btw. Don't you admire the fact that he wants to provide for his child? He's a keeper you might not be though

shine0ncrazydiamond Wed 09-Jan-13 11:36:23

None of your business.

As others have quite rightly said.

24joy Wed 09-Jan-13 11:36:43

Bitter

titchy Wed 09-Jan-13 11:38:01

You don't get HB unless you're in rented. You can get your interest paid if you're on JSA, but only for 6 months so presumably she is paying the mortgage with whatever your dp gives her. So yes she probably does have very little and good on him for supporting her ability to keep his kids in their old house.

DoubleYew Wed 09-Jan-13 11:38:18

15% of my ex salary in no way pays enough to raise ds. Good on your partner that he pays more than the minimum. Agree that his existing child should be a priority for him.

It is not up to you to decide how much is enough for the mother and dc to live on, it is a responsibility he took on when she gave birth. You should have known this when you got together with a father.

WaspFactory Wed 09-Jan-13 11:38:23

Thanks Big. In my defence, we will need to think about reducing the money if/when I go on ML so I just wanted to have a clearer idea of her financial situation. After all, I am contributing to her child's welfare.

Um, why all the nastines towards the op ?? If he's paying so much he's struggling to pay towards the home he shares with her she has every right to wonder, it doesn't make her an evil crone.

Op, as far as I'm aware single mums get to keep all of the child maintenance money these days ( in ye olden days it would be taken off any benefits ) just go on the entitled to website to work it out.

And good on him for doing the right thing, point him in the direction of my sisters ex who's paid bugger all for any of the five kids he's fathered.

shine0ncrazydiamond Wed 09-Jan-13 11:39:15

And it makes no difference how much money she has. He pays 15% of his income and this is the minimum that the CSA recommend. It is based on HIS income, not hers.

I'd wind your neck in if I were you.

Booyhoo Wed 09-Jan-13 11:39:29

me 24joy? do you provide your financial information to any nosey bugger that asks for it? do you think you should have to just because someone wants to know? do you think because someone may receive benefits their financial information should be public property?

NatashaBee Wed 09-Jan-13 11:40:22

You sound lovely! When his child reaches school age her benefits will be cut and she'll be expected to return to work. If you're really interested In how much she would get, then put her details into the turn2us site and you should get a rough idea. You can also put your partners details into the CSA website and see what maintenance he is legally obliged to pay (if he has a child with you they would 'protect' 20% of his income so the amount he pays to her would drop).

WhistlingNun Wed 09-Jan-13 11:40:49

Wasp - have to echo what others have said. What your OH LEGALLY has to pay has no bearing whatsoever on what his ex gets.

Your best bet is to get onto the CSA calculator, type in your ex's income and base it on that. If he wants to stip his maintenance down to the minimum - that'll tell him how much it will be.

If it helps, I'm a single parent to one child and used to get benefits when she was a baby.

I got approx £60 a week in Income Support.
£20 in Child benefit.
£45 in Child tax credit.

I also got HB and council tax credit, but don't like to count this as income as i'm not actually getting the cash iyswim? It went straight from DWP to the council.

My ex tried to palm me off with £5 a week. I went to CSA, had to get a detachment of earnings order and he now has to give me £30 a week.

Money is aboslutely shit when you're an LP to one child. After all my bills were paid i was left with £20-£30 a week to feed and clothe us, buy formula/nappies etc.

It must be even harder when having a mortgage; as far as i know, she'll be getting no help with that at all.

I'm now working and receive WTC. But i'd rather not disclose my current financial state if that's all the same.

Your post comes across quite cruel. But maybe that's me just being over sensitive because i've been where his ex has been.

Word of warning - seriously don't go below the legal minimum he's giving her. Use CSA calculator.

Think of the child, not her. It might make you more compassionate when coming to your final decision.

OptimisticPessimist Wed 09-Jan-13 11:40:58

Totally agree with Alibaba. You should be glad your DP sees it as important to financially support his child, especially if you intend to have children with him.

HB won't pay her mortgage, it's only for rent. She may have her council tax covered currently, but many councils are reducing this entitlement or reducing it altogether. She may also be paying back overpayments in one of her benefits or repaying things like crisis loans if she's had need of them. You can find out basic entitlements online fairly easily but no one can tell you how much she is receiving or comment on whether she can reasonably cover her outgoings on that income and, as many others have said, that's all fairly irrelevant anyway.

Booyhoo Wed 09-Jan-13 11:41:29

"Um, why all the nastines towards the op ?? If he's paying so much he's struggling to pay towards the home he shares with her she has every right to wonder, it doesn't make her an evil crone."

it still doesn't make the woman's income any of Op's business either!

WaspFactory Wed 09-Jan-13 11:41:40

Wow, didn't expect this reaction. Suddenly my BF is a saint and I'm an evil witch trying to make sure my partner's ex lives on the scraps from our table!

NatashaBee Wed 09-Jan-13 11:42:08

Oh, and if you do have a child with him and then split - cross your fingers and hope he does the decent thing and supports your child, and doesn't cut your maintenance on a whim because he thinks you can manage on benefits.

shine0ncrazydiamond Wed 09-Jan-13 11:43:09

You don't sound like an evil witch. You just don't sound very 'for the sisterhood' do you?

Vagaceratops Wed 09-Jan-13 11:43:24

What does your DP earn?

15% of this is what he should be paying, regardless if she is on benefits, minimum wage or £100 an hour.

WhistlingNun Wed 09-Jan-13 11:43:31

After all, I am contributing to her child's welfare.

Really...? Isn't it just your OH's income that's counted for maintenance?

Booyhoo Wed 09-Jan-13 11:45:07

i agree natashabee OP your partner's EX and how he treats her is a glimpse at a possible future for you if you were to have a child and split up (dont say it would never happen) so think about how you'd like him to treat you in that situation.

LineRunner Wed 09-Jan-13 11:45:23

OP I've just re-read your posts and you only ever refer to the child directly once, as 'her child', not 'their child' or 'my DP's child'.

It does come across as being quite cold.

I think Wasp what others are warning is that karma is a bitch. If your man is decent and wants to support his child, then you should be glad. Because when you join the ex's side, he'll be support your child.

WaspFactory Wed 09-Jan-13 11:46:36

You don't sound like an evil witch. You just don't sound very 'for the sisterhood' do you?

How on earth do you come up with this? We all have finances to think about, it's a matter of numbers on a piece of paper. I'm not planning on giving her all our money then popping round for a 'sisterly' burning of bras!

Scrazy Wed 09-Jan-13 11:47:53

OP, google it rather than ask on here. It's easily available info on the net somewhere.

It's harder to manage as a non-working SP if you have a mortgage rather than rent but I believe some mortgage interest is covered after some time but not capital.

As others have said he should pay 15% minimum or whatever is agreed upon between them. Fortunately they don't cut the amount of benefits she receives because of maintenance anymore. It isn't any of your business btw.

MirandaWest Wed 09-Jan-13 11:48:04

I think the OP is saying that her DP is paying over the 15% that he needs to be paying because the XW says she is suffering and the OP thinks this isn't the case.

Booyhoo Wed 09-Jan-13 11:49:06

a matter of numbers on a piece of paper!

how about food in the child's belly or clothes on her back? a warm house to sleep in and electric so she can get hot meals!

I'm quite shocked!

CrystalEclipse Wed 09-Jan-13 11:49:18

What boohoo said.

Genuinely if he's overpaying his ex's he's something special. You don't want to change him

DoubleYew Wed 09-Jan-13 11:49:18

I don't get the "she gets more than me/us after benefits" argument. She is paying for everything (or nearly everything) for the child. They are bleeding expensive you know, that is what the money is for!

And I use reuseable nappies, shop for clothes and toys in charity shops etc to make things stretch as far as possible. Nothing like my life when I didn't have a child to raise.

SaidFlorence Wed 09-Jan-13 11:49:43

When I was a single mum and not working, I got nothing from the state towards my mortgage, just over £100 a week child tax credit, £35 a week income support, £23 a week council tax rebate, and £33 child benefit. (All rounded) Approx £205.61 per week.
Out of this I had to pay my mortgage, gas, electric, tv licence, phone, food etc etc. It's not a huge amount.

Booyhoo Wed 09-Jan-13 11:50:33

op hasn't said once that EX has said she is suffering!

Alibabaandthe40nappies Wed 09-Jan-13 11:50:56

I don't think you are a witch, but I think you are ignorant and thoughtless. Your DP's daughter will not suddenly need less just because you are on maternity leave.

CrystalEclipse Wed 09-Jan-13 11:52:04

Look at It like this, she gets what 20% of his income 80% will go on supporting you and yours

WhistlingNun Wed 09-Jan-13 11:53:08

You're not giving 'her' anything - your ex is providing for his child. He LEGALLY has to do this.

What she gets doesn't change this. Her income support is for her. It's the bare minimum the government deems necessary for a LP to live on. That money isn't for the child, so ignore it.

What does the child get? Tax credit and child benefit. Look it up on the internet if you really want to know. (It's roughly £60-£70 a week if you can't be bothered.). If you really think this is enough to maintain a house, feed, clothe and stimulate a child, then more's the pity. When you have a baby, why not try and see how far £60 odds a week will stretch.

Go on CSA. Type in your partner's income and voila! It'll tell you how much he needs to pay.

Booyhoo Wed 09-Jan-13 11:53:18

15% for 1 child.

WaspFactory Wed 09-Jan-13 11:56:03

Miranda - that's true, although I don't know what she has told him tbh. It was more the friend with the rich ex that got me thinking.

Eventually she will have to sell the house but there's no need to do that just yet. It's not a great situation but there's no way to sugar-coat the pill, their marriage didn't work and now we have to figure out the way forward.

How on earth do you come up with this? We all have finances to think about, it's a matter of numbers on a piece of paper. I'm not planning on giving her all our money then popping round for a 'sisterly' burning of bras!

It doesn't change the fact your partner have a child to support. If you have a new baby, he'll then have two children to support. Children are very expensive. And should a decent man let his children with the ex live on the breadline, when the new ones go to music lessons, foreign holidays etc?

CrystalEclipse Wed 09-Jan-13 11:56:43

I was assuming he was overpaying, but couldn't imagine him overpaying by more than5%

Booyhoo Wed 09-Jan-13 11:58:23

apologies crystal

Piemother Wed 09-Jan-13 11:59:37

If I was on benefits plus maintenance, which is quite a bit as exp middle earner I would be on the bones of my arse and I don't have a mortgage. You only get hb if all income is less than 150 a week where I am and that includes tax credits etc. I work pt though so I'm not.
Perhaps your dp feels his dc are worth more than the minimum - good for him!
I imagine you want to say 'oi dp ex is getting £££ you should give her less' nice.

Snorbs Wed 09-Jan-13 11:59:42

He pays 15% of his income and this is the minimum that the CSA recommend.

The OP has already said he's paying a lot more than the minimum.

OP, when I was on benefits a couple of years ago following redundancy I received the following benefits:
Housing Benefit (we were renting) that paid most, but not all of the rent.
Council Tax Benefit which covered all Council Tax charges.
Job Seeker's Allowance for me which was (I think) about £63 a week.
Child Tax Credits and Child Benefit for my two school-age DCs.
Child maintenance from my ex of £5 a week. Sometimes.

CTC can vary a lot depending on circumstances. I think we were getting about £90-odd a week in CTC. I'd hazard a rough guess at about £60 a week for one child but that could be way off. Child Benefit for one child is currently £20 a week.

All told we were getting something like £175 a week in "usable" benefits out of which I had to pay a proportion of the rent plus all the usual bills (minus council tax), food, clothing etc. Things were tight.

Booyhoo Wed 09-Jan-13 11:59:53

so basically you have been wound up by your friend telling you that LPs are rolling in it and now your partner's ex and child have to suffer for it?

WaspFactory Wed 09-Jan-13 11:59:57

I know he is a good one, he loves his daughter very much, this is a big reason why I want to have a child with him. (He's going to be over the moon when I tell him about all these compliments!)

Also, we will be able to provide a lot more than money for SD when the access arrangements are sorted out. She is being very controlling and refusing to let her come to our house let alone stay over.

ArtexMonkey Wed 09-Jan-13 12:00:38

There are lots of other options you can look into yourself ifyou are struggling financially op.

How much is your mortgage? You could call your provider or an independent adviser and ask about switching to a cheaper one. You could switch energy providers. What broadband/tv package are you on? Have you thought about switching to a cheaper one? If you drive, you could sell your car and buy a bike. How much do you spend on going out? How about on clothes and cosmetics etc? Is there any room to cut back on these areas? Do you smoke? Drink? Are there any ways you could make your home more energy efficient (eg cavity wall insulation)?

Of course, none of this is any of my business.....

twofingerstoGideon Wed 09-Jan-13 12:02:45

And should a decent man let his children with the ex live on the breadline, when the new ones go to music lessons, foreign holidays etc?

And this does happen all too often... my ex pays the square root of fuck all for our DD, while his current wife and daughter have a very nice life indeed (which they 'publicise' on Facebook, so our DD's nose can be well and truly rubbed in it.

WhistlingNun Wed 09-Jan-13 12:05:07

Also, we will be able to provide a lot more than money for SD when the access arrangements are sorted out. She is being very controlling and refusing to let her come to our house let alone stay over.

What do you mean by a 'lot more than money'? confused Why can't he provide that now?

FWIW - CSA say that if his daughter stays with him for more than 52 nights per year, he can legally pay less than the current 15%.

You really don't show much compassion for this child at all. But again, maybe i'm just over sensitive...?

FairyJen Wed 09-Jan-13 12:05:11

At the end of the day if you would have to cut his dd money in order for you to have a child then you shouldn't be having one! Why should his dd suffer because you want a baby?

You chose to be in this position with your dp. The child however does not have a choice and unfortunately kids ain't cheap!

Booyhoo Wed 09-Jan-13 12:05:28

my ex has reduced mainetance payments 3 times this year (and kept it at the reduced rate each time!) so he could a) buy a house b) buy an engagement ring, and c) buy a car. and he wonders why i dont accept his friend requests on FB. as if i want to see photos of his lovely new house, car, engagement ring when i'm struggling to buy electric to cook with!

WaspFactory Wed 09-Jan-13 12:05:30

twofingers, that's awful, I hate that sort of thing. My Mum brought me and my 2 siblings up as a single mother in the 80's and she got nothing from my Dad and struggled like hell. She even went to evening classes to get qualifications and ended up gettting a really good career. I honestly don't know how she managed.

Booyhoo Wed 09-Jan-13 12:07:59

it shocks me that given your upbringing you seem completely devoid of any understanding of your partner's ex and how she might have things a bit tight!

Cantbelieveitsnotbutter Wed 09-Jan-13 12:09:55

OP OVER HERE!
Theres normally an online calculator for the relevant council which will answer your question

As for the mortgage question, i dont believe the council will pay housing benefit if your on the mortgage or what could be perceived as a financial interest e.g ex husband rents it to you. Although there could be exceptions obviously

Hope this helps

twofingers that's exactly why I wrote that post. It's a situation too many of us mothers are facing.

GothAnneGeddes Wed 09-Jan-13 12:13:46

Oh dear.

O.P no one has been unduly harsh on here, there's been very good advice given out.
And you do sound very cold hearted to a child. Who was around before you were on the scene and, push comes to shove, should always come first to your DP.

I bet you can't wait to have that baby with him and start pushing "the child" out of your lives even more.

Well, what goes around, comes around.

WhistlingNun Wed 09-Jan-13 12:13:53

Theres normally an online calculator for the relevant council

LP benefits are the same across the UK. The only difference would be HB (which she's not getting) and the reduction in her council tax bill (biu she won't actually see this cash).

WaspFactory Wed 09-Jan-13 12:15:04

Booyhoo, I don't think I'm 'devoid of understanding', quite the opposite, I don't want her to struggle either, if we can carry on giving her this much each month then we will. Although I hope she is more reasonable regarding access.

DoubleYew Wed 09-Jan-13 12:17:29

I am boggling more and more at this thread! What does your mother think about your plans I wonder?

This child is his child. The same as any child you have together will be his child. It is your future child's sibling. But you are keen to make sure their household lives on the absolute least you can possibley manage to persuade your partner to hand over?

OP, why is she not wanting the child to come to your house. How long have they been split up? How long have you been a couple? Of course if you don't want to discuss your personal business we'll understand...

WhistlingNun Wed 09-Jan-13 12:17:54

Wasp - i think what you need it to go through a solicitor. I don't normally recommend this, but i think for both parties, a level of consistency is definitely needed.

This will ensure contact is scheduled and a level of maintenance is agreed upon.

Booyhoo Wed 09-Jan-13 12:18:19

i haven't seen any evidence on this thread of you understanding her situation at all!

WaspFactory Wed 09-Jan-13 12:19:11

Double - unfortunately I lost my mother to breast cancer in 2009, she'll never get to meet my first child and it breaks my heart.

DoubleYew Wed 09-Jan-13 12:20:10

Sorry to hear about your mum. Same as my dad, its hard. But what do you think she would think?

Scrazy Wed 09-Jan-13 12:22:06

WhistlingNun, really, how much does it reduce by?

It doesn't surprise me and I can see it causing problems. Now that maintenance isn't being clawed back into the government coffers they aren't bothered how much gets paid. I can imagine this creating difficulties if it reduces maintenance obligations.

Wasp I agree you are getting a bit of a pasting on here. But the issue you don't seem to grasp is that your partner made a committment to support (financially and otherwise) his child when he decided to become a father. When he split with the mother that didn't change. When he met you that didn't change. If or when you decide to have more children, that still won't change.

What his first child needs comes first. If he can't then afford to have more children with a new partner, TBH, that's tough. If you or him need to work extra hours (or take less ML) to be able to pay for another child, that's what you have to do. Clawing back money from a child who already exists just isn't on.

I am speaking from the position of a married person who lives with the father of her children, so I think I'm pretty unbiased smile

CheeseandPickledOnion Wed 09-Jan-13 12:24:56

Wow, a lot of bitter women on here.

I don't think there is anything wrong with wanting to try to understand the rough income her p's ex has if she is planning for the future.

How do you know she's not just trying to ensure things are fair for both parties?

As someone else mentioned CSA will reduce if you have a child together.

If you having a baby together significantly affects your income (which it will) and he is paying way over the odds in CSA, then I see no harm in looking at the situation and making it fair for all.

And for all the 'nasty' stepmums and ex's who appear to be living it up while paying fuck all, there are a fuck ton of us doing the opposite and genuinely helping and supporting our step children and their parents.

Back off, it doesn't sound like she's trying to leave this women and SD desolute, she's just trying to get a grip on what will be fair moving forward.

WaspFactory Wed 09-Jan-13 12:25:19

Whilst, admittedly, my original post may seem cold, it was a very short post and doesn't tell you much about our situation so please, don't judge me too harshly I may be 'a' OW but I'm not 'your' OW.

PS Am really sorry to hear about your mum.

PPS Negotiating access to a child doesn't have anything to do with maintenance payments.

Booyhoo Wed 09-Jan-13 12:27:56

"I don't think there is anything wrong with wanting to try to understand the rough income her p's ex has if she is planning for the future."

bollocks! would you say the same if OP was asking to see this woman's payslip if she was working?

Booyhoo Wed 09-Jan-13 12:28:52

you are an OW!

did your partner cheat on his ex with you?

booyhoo that's harsh. I don't think it's part of the consideration about support of children from previous relationships.

Booyhoo Wed 09-Jan-13 12:30:29

and cheese as has already been said. the mother's income doesn't effect what the father has to pay so her income is irrelevant. he can pay what he wants as long as it meets the minimum requirements. he doesn't get to know what the mother has coming in every month no matter what he pays.

I'm not sure why the OP has had such a hard time.

Her DP is paying over what he has to. The ex has insinuated she will be badly off if this drops. OP is looking to future and seeing the level may not be sustainable, so trying to get further info. Yes maybe the ex's income is none of her business but its a way for her to see what is reasnoble. She is looking at that as to ensure that any drop isn't detrimental to the child.

My point is you all are quick to say he has to provide for his child ( he is) but surely the mum holds as much responsibitly to provide for her DC. So as long as dad is paying what he has to, if there is a shorfall maybe mum needs to get a job and not just live off her ex and the state?

OP my advise would be to lower payments to just above the 15% and offer to pay half for things like school unifoirm, trips etc.

I am a SP and my ex pays well below what he is meant to ( self employed, good at hiding money) however i don't realy on it and have worked since my youngest was 3.5. I see that it is as much my job as his to provide.

Booyhoo Wed 09-Jan-13 12:31:09

what is harsh?

DoubleYew Wed 09-Jan-13 12:32:32

Op was the one who brought up contact.

groundhogday17 Wed 09-Jan-13 12:32:33

"he doesn't get to know what the mother has coming in every month no matter what he pays"

It's publicly available information though, doesn't take a brain surgeon to work it out given he knows her circumstances

Scrazy Wed 09-Jan-13 12:32:36

How much is the mortgage that they ex still has to find, I presume. This has a baring on whether she is getting too much or not. Also I suspect she will have to maintain the house which is protecting your partners capital interests. Lots to think about.

Booyhoo Wed 09-Jan-13 12:32:53

diet the ex hasn't insinuated anything! OP has been riled up by her friend telling her that LPs are in the money.

DoubleYew Wed 09-Jan-13 12:34:14

And who is going to pay the childcare while the mother works, Her? The father? Or the state?

CheeseandPickledOnion Wed 09-Jan-13 12:34:40

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

Booyhoo Wed 09-Jan-13 12:34:55

"It's publicly available information though, doesn't take a brain surgeon to work it out given he knows her circumstances "

he doesn't know her circumstances. he has no clue of her outgoings, what benefits she claims or is entitled to. he can only guess unless she has told him.

if i told you i was a single parent do you know how much i have coming in every month?

Scrazy Wed 09-Jan-13 12:35:14

I'm giving advice from the POV as a single parent who got £10 a week maintenance and worked from DC being 3 months. It's not all about ourselves. If OP's DP has agreed to pay this amount then them having a baby shouldn't matter. It's their personal circumstances.

Booyhoo Wed 09-Jan-13 12:35:31

or how much it costs me to raise my dcs?

WhistlingNun Wed 09-Jan-13 12:36:04

WhistlingNun, really, how much does it reduce by?

Council tax? Mine went from £90 a month to £43 when on IS, so still cost me a significant amount.

Probably missing it, but where did the OP say that her OH is paying way over 15%? I can only see a her comment of 'paying over the odds' in the OP. But her idea of over the odds might not be the same as the CSA's legal guidelines.

My ex used to think he was paying over the odds with £5 a week. So that's why i got CSA involved.

ok sorry missed that bit. Still stand by my point though that mum should be doing more. They both made the baby they should both support it.

groundhogday17 Wed 09-Jan-13 12:36:30

As others have said, it's pretty easy to work out what she'll bet in benefits. I don't know you from Adam, but the OP's partner will know a lot about the ex obviously

Booyhoo Wed 09-Jan-13 12:36:48

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

Cheese i agree this post was done to see if it could be reduced without affecting DSD, a sensible move i think.

Boo to be honest you aren't coming across that welll either

Booyhoo Wed 09-Jan-13 12:39:01

my ex knows alot about me...up until the point we separated. after that he has no clue about what i get in and what it costs me to live and raise the dcs. he can get guideline figures but he has no clue whether they are actually accurate for my personal situation or whether they are enough to cover all costs involved with our dcs.

Booyhoo Wed 09-Jan-13 12:39:50

diets i haven't sworn at anyone or called them names.

Booyhoo Wed 09-Jan-13 12:40:58

and why am i not coming across too well?

groundhogday17 Wed 09-Jan-13 12:41:27

The OP wasn't asking how much it cost to raise the child, she was asking how much the ex receives in benefits. This is not difficult information to obtain.

Booyhoo Wed 09-Jan-13 12:41:52

and the mum IS supporting her child! she's raising it!

Booyhoo Wed 09-Jan-13 12:42:47

she still cant know how much she recieves just by looking online.

DoubleYew Wed 09-Jan-13 12:43:05

"and the mum IS supporting her child! she's raising it!"

Yes that!

No true, but you are very set against the OP and as a SP for a while and soon to be a stepmum now, i think she is looking at the situation clearly. Can it be changed without causing DSD harm? a good way of seeing this was to guess the income, hence this post

so the dad supports finacially and mum raises? why is not both contribute to both?

CheeseandPickledOnion Wed 09-Jan-13 12:46:31

Yeah but you don't play nicely either.

I'm not vile. I don't like how all the LP's are jumping on this women when I believe she's just trying to get an understanding of everyone's situation to try to be fair.

What instigated that thought line is really neither here nor there.

You keep harping back to the 'he has to pay 15%' thing, without seeing the bigger picture which I tried to lay out for you.

It is useful to be aware of what her situation is, they can help more if necessary.

I'm so vile that I've consented twice to my DH using our JOINT savings to provide his exp a new car when she's run her last one into the ground by not ever servicing it, or fixing it because she perfers to spend her last penny dowb the pub every weekend.

bunchamunchycrunchycarrots Wed 09-Jan-13 12:48:36

How much maintenance does he pay? And how much is the mortgage on the property the ex lives in? I presume this is information you have, so can work out how much after the mortgage is paid, the ex has to work with. And I agree it's a bit rich to be eyeing up maintenance money as something you can rely on while on maternity leave. I paid my own way, supported myself, with very little input/contribution from my then DP when I was pregnant and then on maternity leave. Not quite sure why you think you need to take money intended to support a child, to support you.

olgaga Wed 09-Jan-13 12:48:56

Why don't you sit down with him and work out your own budget to see if you can actually afford to have a baby? If nothing else it should concentrate your minds.

Booyhoo Wed 09-Jan-13 12:49:57

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

Wallison Wed 09-Jan-13 12:51:09

The 15% thing is a red herring, I think. I mean, obviously, it costs more to raise a child than 15% of your net income. I spend far more than that on my son - it doesn't even cover the cost of living in a two-bedroom place as opposed to a one-bedroom place, for eg.

groundhogday17 Wed 09-Jan-13 12:52:08

I'm struggling to see where cheese has been vile tbh

Boggler Wed 09-Jan-13 12:53:35

IMO I think that he Op's bf has a moral duty to maintain the payments he's already committed to. It's not the child's fault that dad went off with ow, so why should she suffer financial detriment because said ow now wants a baby? If op wants a baby fine finance it from what you have leftover after paying the ex wife the agreed maintenance level - how do you know she could manage on any less? And why should she have to? The bf's priority must be to his dc, and making sure that they are provided for and if that means paying over the odds a bit then so be it. When the dc have to move house because mum can't afford it and dad won't help anymore do you really think your position as potential sm will be an easy one to manage?

groundhogday17 Wed 09-Jan-13 12:54:24

"I mean, obviously, it costs more to raise a child than 15% of your net income"

You can't make a comment like that without knowing what the income is. For example if the income is £150 per week, then 15% is not very much. But if your income is £100k p.a., then 15% is a hell of a lot.

And the 15% alone isn't supposed to cover the cost of raising the child. This is supposed to represent ONE parent's contribution. So double that and add child benefit + tax credits and you get closer to the amount being contributed towards the costs.

WhistlingNun Wed 09-Jan-13 12:55:16

The 15% thing is a red herring, I think. I mean, obviously, it costs more to raise a child than 15% of your net income. I spend far more than that on my son - it doesn't even cover the cost of living in a two-bedroom place as opposed to a one-bedroom place, for eg.

Completely agree!

It's a totally unfair amount.

My ex pays £30 a week. So to be 'equal' i should then contribute £30 a week. So £60 a week is apparently enough for my dd to survive.

Bollocks. i pay far more than that. After School club, food, gas, electric, toys, school stuff, travel etc.

And if he ever has another child, this money will be even less! How is that fair on my dd? It's bad enough he doesn't see her (she's 5 and he's not seen her since birth), leaving me to totally bring her up by myself, there's a chance he won't be held financially responsible for her either in the future.

Sickening.

Booyhoo Wed 09-Jan-13 12:55:53

calling someone a dickhead is pretty vile.

groundhogday17 Wed 09-Jan-13 12:59:46

Boohyoo you yourself swore in one of your first posts so I'm not sure you get to take the moral highground on swearing

EnjoyResponsibly Wed 09-Jan-13 13:01:47

I read posts like Whistling and think I couldn't begrudge a single mum a couple of glasses of wine in the pub a week.

happynewmind Wed 09-Jan-13 13:02:15

Child benefit 81.20
Tax credit £276
income support or jsa £284

641.20 total (think I've added that right)

i was told recently a teacher had left teaching job of thirty grand a year because she got more in benefits.

That's bullshit

im guessing mortgage is a huge percentage of that op.

Booyhoo Wed 09-Jan-13 13:02:37

shite is hardly the same as calling someone a dickhead.

groundhogday17 Wed 09-Jan-13 13:04:06

Oh, you actually have a rating system for swear words. Okay...............

groundhogday17 Wed 09-Jan-13 13:04:50

foulmouthed is foulmouthed imo

Booyhoo Wed 09-Jan-13 13:06:08

one was a personal attack teh other wasn't. there's the difference. MNHQ seem to agree.

groundhogday17 Wed 09-Jan-13 13:08:25

lol I see a post was deleted upon a poster's request (yours I assume) but I didn't see any decision on the relative grading of swear words. Although if you insist your foul language is reasonable then by all means persist. It does though make your putting down of other posts as "vile" rather laughable though.

chickensarmpit Wed 09-Jan-13 13:10:49

Why does CSA go down if the father decides to have kids with other women? It's so bloody wrong!
My dad did the same thing when he ran off with step-bitch. Us kids were the ones who suffered because she had to keep throwing babies out. Don't get me started on my dad not buying us 4 kids winters coats because it wasn't fair on the step-brats. Boy i am bitter.
You have a child, you pay for that child. If the new woman on the scene doesn't like it, tough!! Find a bloke with no kids then!!

Booyhoo Wed 09-Jan-13 13:11:14

no i dont report posts unless i think they're trolling. someone else responsible for that.

MNHQ also agree that swearing is fine on MN. they dont agree with personal attacks. the vileness of his/her post was in the personal attack on me.

groundhogday17 Wed 09-Jan-13 13:13:26

I personally think resorting to swearing is foulmouthed and very much un-necessary. It reflects on you in a way which detracts from the moral highground you seem eager to claim.

Booyhoo Wed 09-Jan-13 13:13:30

and it wasn't deleted at a poster's request.

<hijack over. apologies OP>

CheeseandPickledOnion Wed 09-Jan-13 13:19:46

Then it was deleted because you also broke talk guidelines.

You swore, I swore, so what.

Your responses on this thread to the OP have been pretty vile too, and it appears I am not the only one to think that.

I completely understand where the OP is coming from.

FairyJen Wed 09-Jan-13 13:25:24

I'm sorry but if op is worried about paying for future children she needs to cut her own costs/outgoings not her step daughters or keep her legs closed!

An I'm not a bitter ex or lp. I'm with the father of my dc.

Snorbs Wed 09-Jan-13 13:29:02

Why does CSA go down if the father decides to have kids with other women?

As I understand it the reasoning is thus:

Imagine a couple. They have one child already. They subsequently have a second. If income is more-or-less fixed, then the cash available to spend on each child reduces as there are now more children to spread the money between. Unless they were very well-off they'd have to tighten their belts a bit to increase overall spending on their children but each individual child would get a bit less than the one child on its own would have got.

If you now imagine the same couple with one child but they subsequently split and the NRP goes on to have another child. The NRP's overall outgoings increase as there are two children to cover. But each individual child gets less.

I'm not saying this is the right way of looking at it but it is why the rules are set the way they are.

AmberLeaf Wed 09-Jan-13 13:30:08

You want him to pay less when go on ML?

I hope he is paying over the odds or you may be in for a shock!

He sounds like a decent sort though, I really think you should show him this thread so he can see where your mind is at.

fuckadoodlepoopoo Wed 09-Jan-13 13:30:38

Booyhoo. It seems that the op would like the information so that she can make sure things are fair, nothing wrong with that. That may well mean giving even more to the ex in maintenance for all we know.

Op. You do know that being the other woman never does well don't you?

WaspFactory Wed 09-Jan-13 13:32:09

I know this is a contentious issue, I'm sorry if I've offended anyone, I didn't realise it was going to turn out like this.

A few bits of info for those asking:-

1) I think her family are paying the mortgage and BF has agreed that he will forego any equity when/if she sells it
2) Maintenance and access are linked but BF doesn't want to get court involved, at this stage
3) He is paying approx 30% of his earnings to her and it's a struggle for him, even though he gets a decent salary
4) They split up last summer so it's a relatively new situation
5) I care very much for SD and I will always want her to have at least as good a quality of life as any child we have together and I would never want her to go without.

Alibabaandthe40nappies Wed 09-Jan-13 13:33:24

Cheese - I'm not an LP and I still have an issue with the attitude that the OP appears to have towards her partner's child and ex.

Wasp - you were brave to admit being the OW...

Alibabaandthe40nappies Wed 09-Jan-13 13:37:10

What does it matter if her family are paying the mortgage?

30% is generous, I see this as a good thing and to be encouraged. It probably reflects much more accurately the actual costs of raising a child than the paltry 15% that the CSA award. Something which your BF has obviously realised and acted on.

You haven't answered - what is his view on all this?

AmberLeaf Wed 09-Jan-13 13:39:36

You were the other woman?

They split only what 6 months ago?

I think you are rushing into things somewhat if you are already planning to have a baby with a man who was in a relationship with someone else only 6 months ago TBH.

Or are you one of those OW who wants a baby as quick as possible so you can have a perceived 'equal footing' to the ex?

In short....slow down.

WaspFactory Wed 09-Jan-13 13:40:11

Sorry, I got a bit lost in all the in-fighting. What's his view on what?

bunchamunchycrunchycarrots Wed 09-Jan-13 13:41:29

It seems that the op would like the information so that she can make sure things are fair, nothing wrong with that

2 people have already decided what is fair. Why does the OP feel the need to 'revisit' what has already been determined as 'fair'. Being 'fair' is subjective. I doubt that what the ex and her DP see as fair will be viewed in the same way by the OP, so all this 'I want to see what is fair' nonsense is simply interfering with an agreement that was no doubt difficult to reach given the surrounding circumstances.

I just can't get over someone thinking maintenance money, to support a child, is fair game to someone not even pregnant, and thinking about how to fund their maternity leave.

fuckadoodlepoopoo Wed 09-Jan-13 13:43:28

So how long were you the bit on the side? Just wondering how long you have known this man you are planning on having a child with.

How old is his child?

CheeseandPickledOnion Wed 09-Jan-13 13:43:30

Last summer is still pretty new, so likely visitation will settle down as things move forward.

But maintenance and access are very definitely NOT LINKED unless you are in another country than the UK.

You have to pay maintenance regardless of your access to the child. A court will look badly at anyone withholding maintenance for access.

I don't see what the OP has done which is showing any sort of bad attitude to her partners child and his ex? Where is this?

She's trying to get a handle on how fair things are.

FairyJen Wed 09-Jan-13 13:43:57

wasp you were the ow which personally I find despicable anyway. This situation has only been going in 6 months and already your thinking of having a baby and cutting his maintenance payments.

God help his dd in the future if this is where your at in 6 months.

WaspFactory Wed 09-Jan-13 13:44:49

Amber - you are very cynical, what sort of person would have a baby for that reason?

AmberLeaf Wed 09-Jan-13 13:46:04

Someone like you by the sounds of it Wasp!

Why do you want to have a baby with a man that was with someone else only 6 months ago?

How long have you known him?

FairyJen Wed 09-Jan-13 13:46:04

What sort of person wants to take a child's money to fund their own maternity?

bunchamunchycrunchycarrots Wed 09-Jan-13 13:46:22

How much is 30% of his salary? That could be £50, it could be £500. The actual figure being paid is what counts, not what % of his salary he is paying, if you are looking to find out how feasible it is that the ex is either struggling or not.

WaspFactory Wed 09-Jan-13 13:46:58

There was a thread earlier about how to become popular on Mumsnet - I think I may have found out to very quickly become extremely unpopular sad

fackinell Wed 09-Jan-13 13:47:20

Wasp, my DP has a 16yo DD. he pays over the min set by CSA, pays his DD 25 a mth pocket money into her account and trips/clothes/treats etc when req. his ExW lives with her 'affair' partner and we genuinely struggle. Food shopping generally goes on a CC and we can't afford a much needed holiday. ExW went abroad for 2 wks last summer, I haven't been away for 4yrs.

Yes it's frustrating, but I came into this relationship with my eyes and arms wide open to embrace his daughter (she fecking hates my very existence in spite of all this, and we have put new boundaries in place so i don't constantly feel like a cuckoo in the nest, but not the point).

We would like a baby but it would be a huge struggle. It won't stop us as we will cut our cloth to fit without any detriment to his DD. it's tough but when I want to open my mouth to complain I tell myself 'suck it up, buttercup!!' You'll find a way.

Rather sad if you are an OW in the biblical sense. Pardon me if I'm getting the situ wrong but if they do it with you, they'll do it to you!!

WaspFactory Wed 09-Jan-13 13:47:51

Now I've got an awful feeling his ex is on here [HELP]

Alibabaandthe40nappies Wed 09-Jan-13 13:51:08

Sorry, I got a bit lost in all the in-fighting. What's his view on what?

On how much money he should be paying?

Were you seriously the OW? And now you've been shacked up 6 months and you've decided you want a baby and are looking at how to fund that by getting your BF to cut the money his gives his child?

Wow.

He is clearly an arse also if the above situation is true.

His poor little girl.

WaspFactory Wed 09-Jan-13 13:51:36

fackinell - it's complicated but I suppose I am, and I know that's how she sees it. Fact is he'd been unhappy for years and we were close friends.

CheeseandPickledOnion Wed 09-Jan-13 13:51:52

So the general attitude is that once maintenance level is set, it should never again be reviewed or changed regardless of any changes in circumstance? Because that seems to be what a lot of people are insinuating?

What if the OP's P took a pay cut? He would have to reduce maintenance then?

What if the OP's P was still with his ex, would a reduction in his wages affect her then? Yes.

Nothing is set in stone. Income can and does change. Regardless of if you are in a core family unit or in a merged family you have to expect that things may change and your income may not remain the same due to various circumstances.

The explanation of why CSA reduces when you have another child explains why you have to allow for this.

The OP has nothing more than try to figure out that if she does get pregnant, and they do have to (though don't wan to) reduce maintenance, will it be fair on the ex and not detrimental to the SD. I don't see what is so terrible about that.

OP - Slow down. Six months in is tooooooo fast.

Booyhoo Wed 09-Jan-13 13:52:51

wow.

FairyJen Wed 09-Jan-13 13:54:29

"he'd been unhappy for years"

Imagine how his fucking ex felt thanks to the two of you!

Alibabaandthe40nappies Wed 09-Jan-13 13:55:07

Good grief.

So your clock was ticking and you've decided to muscle in on someone else's family set up?

ArtexMonkey Wed 09-Jan-13 13:55:32

If a bloke was posting about wanting a baby with his gf of 6 months and wanting to interfere in the relationship between her young dc and their father, he would flag himself up as a not terribly desirable catch (to say the least).

DontmindifIdo Wed 09-Jan-13 13:55:42

bunchamunchycrunchycarrots - because if the two people have decided what is fair is only possible if the OP funds her DP's lifestyle and he doesn't have to live from his wage, then it's only 'fair' that she gets a say. If he can only afford to pay 30% because she is paying the bulk of the bills in his current home, that is only sustainable as long as she's doing that. If she stops working, goes on maternity leave, or just walks out on her DP, then the exW can say all she likes "but you agreed to pay £x in maintenance" it doesn't change that will no longer be phyiscally possible.

The state says the ExW only needs 15% - at the moment it seems he's giving a much higher percentage - 30% that's not sustainable, finding out roughly what the exW has coming in and her rough outgoings to work out where between 30% and 15% that would still give the DCs a comfortable lifestyle isn't that wrong.

WaspFactory Wed 09-Jan-13 13:56:02

Alibaba - he pays £500 and knows he can't keep the payments up long term.
I want to have a baby with him because I love him. We're not going to try for a while anyway. Also, and this is very important in my decision to have a child, I know 100% that I could support him/her on my own, if I ever had to.

fuckadoodlepoopoo Wed 09-Jan-13 13:57:02

Were you friends with his wife too?

fackinell Wed 09-Jan-13 13:57:45

Wasp, I don't think you've put anything on here that wouldn't apply to several thousand people. I get paranoid about RL recognition too.
Unless you're recognised by your arse being on fire for the flaming you're getting!! grin

AnAirOfHope Wed 09-Jan-13 13:57:51

Why do you want a baby in a 6 month relationship?

How long have you been together?

When are you planning on starting ttc?

If the ex was working and paid the mortage and then db left and she is paying it now then you can take his name off the mortage right? The house belongs to the exwife as she paid for it.

Her money is her responsability and NOYB. In fact your boyfriend does not have to tell you what his finance is like.

30% of his income are you sure he doest have another child?

DontmindifIdo Wed 09-Jan-13 13:58:46

oh but OP - leave it a couple of years before having DCs with a man who's walked out on one family when a better offer came along. You need to know he's not going to be 'miserable' with you and walk out then. If he's already paying maintenance to one woman, unless he's a very high earner, you are going to be a difficult position. Regardless of what he says to you (I bet he claimed you were his soulmate), his actions are more important.

FairyJen Wed 09-Jan-13 14:00:05

wasp quite clearly you could NOT support baby 100% on your own as your saying you cannot afford one even as a couple without cutting his maintenance.

If you were to separate what % would you be expecting off him?

bunchamunchycrunchycarrots Wed 09-Jan-13 14:00:32

Cheese, the 'general attitude' is that it's up the the child's father how much maintenance he pays to support his child, not the OP. Yet the OP thinks she can work out how much of the maintenance is 'fair' and how much she can ring fence for maternity leave when she isn't even pregnant. Unless her DP has invited her to have an opinion on this, she should keep her nose out of this agreement. It's hard enough to reach an agreement on maintenance without someone else trying to ear mark part of money intended to support a child, for their own purposes.

Shit happens, and people adapt to life events as the happen. But to calculate how much of maintenance your DP is paying, can be clawed back for your own use while off on maternity leave? Nah, sorry, that just doesn't wash. Call me 'old fashioned' but I think if you are planning to have a child, and you have a budget to work with, you save as much as you can before getting pregnant to cover your losses while you are on maternity leave. You don't eye up someone else's money i.e. the child's money, to cover your losses while not earning. IMO.

WaspFactory Wed 09-Jan-13 14:00:36

Fackinell - reassuring, thanks! I suppose if she did recognise me I could run away and name change - in fact I'm starting to think I might anyway as I clearly represent everything that is bad with the world

olgaga Wed 09-Jan-13 14:01:51

OK I am going to try again in case OP returns because my post above might have got lost in the bunfight.

I suggested that the sensible thing to do would be for the OP to sit down with OH and look at their own budget and see whether they can afford to have a child, and what the financial impact would be.

I would also add that in the OP it says:

I ask because my partner is paying his ex over the odds in maintenance because he thinks she is getting next to nothing. However, a friend of mine says his ex gets more money than him due to the amount of benefit she receives.

So it isn't the OH who is questioning the amount paid, it's the OP, on the basis of what a "friend" of hers has said.

Why would the OH "think" she is getting next to nothing, if that wasn't the case?

She is on benefits - she will be getting the bare minimum, and that will reduce over time as prices are going up higher than the 1% cap.

You can try to calculate the benefit she receives here.

She has a mortgage, so she won't qualify for housing benefit. The most help she will get with her housing is SMI - mortgage interest support. So that is help with the interest, not the mortgage repayment. That is paid direct to the lender, so she won't see a penny of it.

As for child maintenance, you can make a rough calculation here of what your OH would be paying if he were to withdraw all other support. Frankly unless your OH is being exceptionally generous I doubt whether it will make much difference to your budget - however it will no doubt make a huge difference to hers. Therefore if you care about your SD, as you say you do, would you really want that to happen?

Your suggestion that if she would allow it, your OH having more contact with the child would lead to a reduction in her costs is rather wide of the mark. It will make no difference to her fixed costs in relation to housing and utilities, which make up the biggest proportion of her budget.

I think if your OH is so concerned about being misled by his ex he should raise it with her. However, if she is on benefits and trying to pay a mortgage, I can guarantee you she won't be "more money than him".

You may feel it's your business because you live with your OH, share living costs and are planning a family. But his relations with his ex are not really your business, they are his responsibility to maintain.

I think you'd be very unwise to have any discussion with your OH about this on any basis other than your own joint budget.

WaspFactory Wed 09-Jan-13 14:02:25

FairyJen - long term I could, I would just need him to support me until I go back to work FT.

Alibabaandthe40nappies Wed 09-Jan-13 14:02:37

Well £500 doesn't seem like a whole lot, really. £250 certainly isn't.

bunchamunchycrunchycarrots Wed 09-Jan-13 14:02:55

I know 100% that I could support him/her on my own, if I ever had to.

So why do you need the maintenance money if the above is true?

fuckadoodlepoopoo Wed 09-Jan-13 14:05:39

Like he is his wife you mean?

FairyJen Wed 09-Jan-13 14:06:40

You said 100% that means all child are costs living expenses etc etc etc

Oh wait as long as he helps before you go back to work? What if his next woman us unhappy with him supporting you?

Face it op you put yourself in this position and wrecked a family while doing do. SUCK IT UP!

WaspFactory Wed 09-Jan-13 14:08:40

Olgaga - I am currently taking up the slack because my BF is struggling with money. What my friend said about his situation just got me thinking, I have never suggested to BF that he should pay less.

ArtexMonkey Wed 09-Jan-13 14:08:50

Oh dear op, I have just had a look at some of your other posts. I know this is considered bad form but really.

You are still married to someone else, you said on Sunday your boyfriend didn't want to commit to ttcing just yet, but you threw you pills in the bin on Monday regardless and have had a couple of threads asking could you be pg already, and about childminders, child tax credit, returning to work after mat leave etc? Not only this but you have ££££s of debt you cannot afford to service due to paying too high a rent?

No wonder you don't want your boyfriend to read your mn posts.

Wasp just one word of advice. If you can 100% support your own child, you wouldn't need to look at his money for maternity leave. I assume you have a good job, and that should pay for your maternity leave. I don't think I can 100% pay for my DD, but I can afford the maternity leave without needing DH's pay. It's 3 months of 90% pay and then about £500 to nine months, minimum. (Excluding what additional benefit your employee have for you). You should still be entitled to your bonus, but pro rata. By being more frugal, you might be able to stretch that 3 months pay for the 9-12 months you plan to be on leave if you do earn as much as you implied.

You need to look at your financial situation and think more carefully about the 100% statement if you can't afford the maternity on your own pay.

fackinell Wed 09-Jan-13 14:10:23

Yep may be an idea. I NC when I realised my user name was linked to my fb account <damage limitation>

TBH if you don't NC, you'll be dragged across hot coals for this thread forever. I wasn't an OW as she left him yrs before we got together but SPs in general are shot down in flames for having any kind of opinion which I find very sad, considering the majority genuinely try hard to go out of their way to understand how the children feel. I was always pleasant when I met his ex in the street but she clearly hates me and I have the good grace to allow her to pretend she hasn't seen me now. DP's DD often does the same and I'm accepting that (although harder to take).

FairyJen Wed 09-Jan-13 14:10:40

If what art found is true you should be fucking disgusted with yourself!

AnAirOfHope Wed 09-Jan-13 14:10:40

30% of income each month and he gives her £500 per month for there child so he will give you £500 per month for your child.

Is that enough for your ml?

WaspFactory Wed 09-Jan-13 14:11:03

FairyJen - We might struggle a bit at first, hence the original question. I wouldn't consider having a child if I couldn't afford it. Thanks for your support, it means a lot.

EnjoyResponsibly Wed 09-Jan-13 14:11:48

So really he's not a very nice bloke at all. It's guilt money.

He had an OW, who also knew he was married, and ditched his DW and DD to be with her.

He and OW are now considering another child, after 6 months!?

ExW now faces having to leave her home, having her income reduced and raising her daughter alone.

Have I missed anything?

OP I hope you and DP are super-happy together.

To OP's DP's ExW: I hope you dig in girl and get every single solitary penny you can.

ArtexMonkey Wed 09-Jan-13 14:13:03

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

fuckadoodlepoopoo Wed 09-Jan-13 14:13:12

Oh my god! You're trying to trap him into getting you pregnant!? And you say you love him? Really? That's not love its a desire to own. And you were good friends? What sort of friend does that?!

What a massive mistake he made when he took up with you!

Alibabaandthe40nappies Wed 09-Jan-13 14:14:21

Careful Artex, you'll be off in a puff of smoke wink

Have to say I've been watching the OP's posts on this and other threads with, um, interest, at the rapid developments.

FairyJen Wed 09-Jan-13 14:14:31

wasp you have thrown your pills away and are effectively tricking your bf into having a child you CANNOT afford.

Shame on you!

Ex good luck to you. Get every penny you can!

Susan2kids Wed 09-Jan-13 14:14:51

WaspFactory: along with others. Its nothing to do with you his payments are made by law. If he chooses to pay more good for him.... unless you are concerned hes neglecting your joint children its entirely irrelevant.

EnjoyResponsibly Wed 09-Jan-13 14:15:18

Christ on a bike!!!

Is what Artex posted true.

^ ^ this is the reason the term "fucking cunt" was poetically coined I think.

WaspFactory Wed 09-Jan-13 14:16:18

Artex - all of my posts since I joined MN have been research about having kids, 'can I afford it', 'what are my chances of conception' etc. Yes, I want to have a baby with my BF, yes we have a slightly messy situation, but we're in love and I'm very happy. You can judge me if you want to, this seems to be a very popular past time on here, but nobody's perfect.

FairyJen Wed 09-Jan-13 14:16:57

And it's people like you wasp that give sp a bad name not to mention to seem to represent everything I despise in people/women.

No wonder ex doesn't want her dd round you/your house!

DontmindifIdo Wed 09-Jan-13 14:18:52

OK, so assuming you aren't planning to have DCs straight away, how about you put together a 2 year savings plan. Start with sitting down with your DP, working out what your living costs are and agreeing to split them 50/50 now - if that leaves him with very little after paying childsupport, tough, or you'll consider moving to a cheaper place so he can afford his 50% of your bills.

Any difference between what you pay now and what you would pay if you were only funding 50% of the bills, you save. And every other spare penny, you save, on the understanding you need enough saved to cover your 50% of bills for 1 year so that if you do go off on maternity leave and your DP hasn't had a pay rise in that time, then you can cover 'your share' and not need him to support you in that time.

What he spends the difference between his share of the bills and what he earns is his business, if he wants to over pay on childsupport that's his choice as much as if he chose to spend it on expensive shoes or mountain bikes or anything else. What you spend (or save) with what's left over from you paying your share is non of his business either.

obviously, if you get married this would need to be reviewed, but right now, his CS payments are his business, so long as they don't affect you.

If, when you look at it, he's not able to afford paying 50% of your bills, or that you aren't able to afford it, then you need to look again at your outgoings and arrange a lifestyle where you can do that.

Remember, once you've had a DC, you will have to factor in childcare payments if you are goign to return to work, this would be a 'household bill' for you and your DP, and would need splitting 50/50 (never let a man you live with treat childcare payments as 'your' responsibility to pay, they are a household bill) - assume around a grand a month if you are working full time. Before you start trying for a baby with this man, you will need to look at that and work out if he could afford that too along with his other financial commitments. Do not be a SAHM with a man who's previously walked out on another family, even if you could afford it. You need to keep your CV up to date just in case history repeats itself.

olgaga Wed 09-Jan-13 14:18:55

I have assumed your OH has a gross income of £35,000 and 52 nights or less pa contact, and used the CM options calculator (link above).

He would be expected to pay £101pw (£437 per month) in any case. So even if he pays the bare minimum you're only going to be £60 per month better off.

And she may well be unable to afford the mortgage if she lost that money. Do you think he would be happy about making his SD homeless?

On the above figures, if you have a child his maintenance for your SD would be £86 per week, or £372 per month.

In your calculations about being able to afford to support yourself and a child by going back to work full time, have you considered the cost of childcare? Unless you earn seriously good money I think you'll find it a struggle.

Interesting what ArtexMonkey said was on OP's other threads. It's an eye opener really. I was trying to be polite to Wasp, but maybe I shouldn't have to bother.

WaspFactory Wed 09-Jan-13 14:20:45

haha @ 'tricked my BF into having a child'. He knows I've stopped taking the pill, he decided it wasn't a risk before we had US.

I'm just off to get my new witches hat fitted, see you all later grin

Booyhoo Wed 09-Jan-13 14:20:46

i retract my comment about cheese, it's people like OP who are the truly vile ones. tricking someone into parenthood? disgusting. lets hope he sees the light before you have persuaded him to cut his maintenance payments for the child he chose to have willingly!

and if by any stroke of luck the exwife has seen this i hope she shows it to him.

CheeseandPickledOnion Wed 09-Jan-13 14:20:55

bunchamunchycrunchycarrots I actually don't disagree with much you've said.

I'm very much presuming that this question has been asked on the back of a discussion between the OP and her P. It appears that way since they have discussed he cannot continue £500 indefinitely. I haven't read it as her trying to ringfence money and take it back from the ex. I've read it as her trying to obtain further information about the situation to further discuss with her partner.

I also agree it would sensible to save and plan. However, it maybe that they can't save due to the amount of maintenance being paid? We really don't know the whole story.

Um what ArtexMonkey said was true. I assume a link is ok with mn towers?

google search result on WaspFactory posts on MN

Booyhoo Wed 09-Jan-13 14:22:38

xposting.

so you are trying for a baby?

EnjoyResponsibly Wed 09-Jan-13 14:23:51

One are you Ian Rankins agent grin

DontmindifIdo Wed 09-Jan-13 14:25:34

Oh just seen about your other threads. Dear lord, so you'll ignore my sensible post about being able to make sure you can afford to pay your way...

OK, you're in debt and can't afford your current lifestyle, you need to move, you need to get your finances straight as a couple and then start savign for a baby.

Or you could just throw away your pills, hope for the best and pray that it wasn't the drudgery of family life that led him into your bed, so that couple with sky high debts won't lead him to the next woman's.

EnjoyResponsibly no, the work before was sloppy. I should have gone for "waspfactory site:mumsnet.com" instead grin

FairyJen Wed 09-Jan-13 14:26:55

You actually say in your post re childminders you have avoided children and people with them all your adult life.

Erm bollocks much?

ArtexMonkey Wed 09-Jan-13 14:28:41

I am going to judge my arse off I'm afraid smile you are talking about taking money off a 4 year old child to finance your sudden whim for motherhood, while you have consumer credit debts in your name you have no way of paying back yet.

I think your lines of enquiry would be better aimed towards the areas of budgeting and debt advice than ttc myself. if you are real that is which I sincerely doubt

olgaga Wed 09-Jan-13 14:28:45

So it looks like I just wasted quite a bit of time here trying to help a fantasist.

Honestly OP if what Art says is true then my gast has been well and truly flabbered.

Thanks for making me feel like a proper mug. angry

Booyhoo Wed 09-Jan-13 14:29:07

why is OP laughing?

fackinell Wed 09-Jan-13 14:30:04

Where does it say Wasp is 'tricking' her DP into getting PG in that thread? I know the OW and money side of things is angering a lot of people but its not fair to accuse Wasp of trapping him when they're using condoms till he gets his head around it!!
Fair trial, folks.

CheeseandPickledOnion Wed 09-Jan-13 14:30:13

reads rest of wasp posts

Waves white flag and retreats.

EnjoyResponsibly Wed 09-Jan-13 14:30:30

Olgaga don't feel bad. Support is what MN does best.

Updates spreadsheet with Waspfactorys name for future reference.

Booyhoo Wed 09-Jan-13 14:31:47

i misunderstood from what another poster said facking

FairyJen Wed 09-Jan-13 14:32:20

Arf @ "gast has been well and truly flabbered"

grin

cloudpuff Wed 09-Jan-13 14:32:50

I feel sorry for the Mum and the child in all this, 6 months is not long and his ex and child will still be getting used to the big big change in their lives, having your dad leave to shack up with someone else is very confusing to child and there will be a lot of anger still surrounding why he left, you and your partner may well be all happy and loved up but I bet it will take a lot longer for his Daughter and ex to be in the same position. They are still adjusting.

If you are questioning finances in regard to having a baby now I'm assuming you're planning this to happen sooner rather than later which I think is a big mistake, why cant you wait a few years and let the dust settle, let everyone get used to their new lives and become settled.

If he was so unhappy for "years" he could have left a long time ago, was his wife aware of how unhappy he was and how much trouble her marriage was in? or do you only know your partners version of events. I would not be suprised to find his wife knew nothing it and to discover he was still sleeping with her.

Is the access a problem because she doesn't want her child at your home or around you? I can understand that a little. Can your husband not see his Daughter alone each week either in the family home or by taking her out somewhere, just until everything settles, the amount he pays should be changed because of the amount he sees his child, they are not linked.

He has agreed %30 of his income whilst knowing he was setting up a new life with you so he must have done some sums in his head and decided this was acceptable, it will cause a shit storm if he reduces it now, especially if he says its because you both want another child as its still so raw.

I agree that when a together family have more children there is less money to go around so the amount spent on each child lowers but its not as black and white as to say the same should happen in seperated families, two seperate amounts of rent need to be paid, two amounts of gas/electric need to be paid/ two amounts of clothing needs to be bought etc wheres in a together family only one lot is needed.

I just think its a bit of a mess for his ex and child and would be rubbing salt into the wounds if you cut money so you can have a child together, Id wait a while and re discuss in a year or so. Im not a bitter ex, an other woman, a lone parent etc, its just the way I see it as an outsider. I really really hope you dont end up posting in a few years being in the exs place as he has left for someone else, that fear would always be in my mind and I dont think I could have children with him.

fackinell Wed 09-Jan-13 14:33:28

Ah ok, Boo.

olgaga Wed 09-Jan-13 14:33:30

I dunno, I think this has got to be my worst experience yet on MN. It's actually made me feel quite depressed that I got involved on the basis that there must be women out there who have these questions and posting a couple of links and a few points to consider might be useful.

I'm going to take a break and have a restorative wine and maybe get on with stuff I should have been doing rather than wasting my damn time!

olgaga Wed 09-Jan-13 14:36:42

FairyJen yes it's a nice one innit!

happynewmind Wed 09-Jan-13 14:39:18

Have I got it right that you have been in a relation ship with this man for 24 weeks have no money,loads of debt but you want him to give his existing child less financial support so you can have a baby you don't have money to support.

If this 24 week relationship doesn't work out and you end up alone with a child and he takes money from you in same situation how would you feel.

cloudpuff, reading WaspFactory posts, she's 35 so she can't wait for a few years. And the OW's child is 4 yo. I can't see how he could be unhappy 'for a very long time'. They couldn't have had a child if they aren't happy.

InNeatCognac Wed 09-Jan-13 14:39:59

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

FairyJen Wed 09-Jan-13 14:41:02

olga I have no shame in saying that I plan in nicking that phrase and using it asap'

EnjoyResponsibly Wed 09-Jan-13 14:41:04

Olgaga I understand, I'm going to go and have a shower. Gah!

happynewmind you missed out the bit WaspFactory is also married to another man. I think I'm not reading it wrong. But maybe she's already divorced within the 6mo, or they were only co-habiting.

AnAirOfHope Wed 09-Jan-13 14:42:00

Im offened. Im a witch and we dont act anywhere near as nasty as you have on this thread shock

cloudpuff Wed 09-Jan-13 14:48:34

That was my point onelittletoddlingterror, he couldnt have been unhappy as he had stayed, he waited for something better and I wont be suprised if OP is posting in a few years to say how shocked she is to discover her partner had been cheating and has fucked off with someone else and now wants to reduce maintanence so he can have a third child.

I was trying to be nice in my post, one of my resolutions was to put myself in others positions and be kind, but whilst I was typing out my post and doing stuff I should be all the other stuff about throwing away contraceptive has come out and I've wasted 30 mins typing out of my life that could have better spent scraping dog shit off my front step.

OP it sounds like you have your mind made up and are going to do whatever you want, like you said you're "happy". i wish you good luck because something tells me you will be needing it.

MirandaWest Wed 09-Jan-13 14:54:07

She is still married to her husband as in another of her threads she's trying to decide whether to keep some money he's giving her, and mentioned in the thread that she's not got divorced yet.

WaspFactory Wed 09-Jan-13 14:58:42

Back in a bit, I'm just off to steal some money from a 4yo while also tricking my BF into having kids that we can't afford.

You guys really crack me up grin

Seriously, you've read all my posts? That's a) very weird/sad, and b) still doesn't tell you that much about me, my life or my relationships.

ArtexMonkey Wed 09-Jan-13 14:59:47

Yes she needs to take her cuckolded ex's inheritance money to put towards the £15k worth of debts she has no other way of paying off.

<judge judge judge>

Booyhoo Wed 09-Jan-13 15:00:45

how is this funny to you wasp?

i find you really detatched tbh.

WaspFactory Wed 09-Jan-13 15:05:36

I think you've all been watching too much Eastenders or something.

Artex - cuckolded ex? Amazing stuff. He met me for lunch today and gave me £10k. We discussed him moving away and selling our house. He knows I'm seeing someone else but wants to stay friends.

I knew he was going to give me the money at the weekend so me an BF discussed cmoing off the pill and he agreed, as money has been one of the main things holding him back.

BF also made the decision to take the risk this week of having US and said he wouldn't mind if I got pregnant now but we should probably wait a few months.

Would any of you lovely ladies like to comment on any of that?

FairyJen Wed 09-Jan-13 15:07:13

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FairyJen Wed 09-Jan-13 15:07:52

*you

MirandaWest Wed 09-Jan-13 15:08:06

I've never watched Eastenders smile

Booyhoo Wed 09-Jan-13 15:10:01

erm, i think it's you whose been watching too much eastenders. you seem to want your life to read like some sort of dramatic storyline.

again. why is this funny to you?

InNeatCognac Wed 09-Jan-13 15:11:05

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LadyGago Wed 09-Jan-13 15:11:12

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FairyJen Wed 09-Jan-13 15:13:18

Op please post again when the same happens to you.
Just so I can LMFAO!

WaspFactory Wed 09-Jan-13 15:14:19

It's funny because I can't believe the assumptions you people make when judging me. And comments like "you're trying to STEAL money from a CHILD to fund YOUR maternity leave??" It's crazy.

Anyway, I found out what I wanted to know, albeit after wading through a swimming pool full of bitter women's resentment, so thanks everyone. Nice talking to you wink

AnAirOfHope Wed 09-Jan-13 15:16:12

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EuroShagmore Wed 09-Jan-13 15:18:15

I don't know why the OP is getting such a hard time. It is quite normal for the amount paid to reduce when the father has a child with the new partner, because his salary has to support two kids rather than one. The same would happen if he was still with his original partner.

I actually have a friend in a similar situation to the OP's partner. He currently pays over the minimum for the first child. He now has a child with his new partner. He could apply to the court at any time for a variation in the order in light of the new child, but is holding off for as long as he can. This sort of situation is not uncommon.

Maintenance levels can be varied whenever there is a change in income or outgoings.

WaspFactory Wed 09-Jan-13 15:19:45

Please, if I spit my coke out once more I'll wreck my keyboard!

LOL!! And it's counselling, darling, unless you mean I need to get a public servant to review my 'emotional immaturaty'. Too funny.

AnAirOfHope Wed 09-Jan-13 15:20:10

You sound very young op sad

AnAirOfHope Wed 09-Jan-13 15:26:11

What is wrong with your life that you need to go one a chat fourm and have a bun fight with people you dont know?

Do you have friends?

Do you have a family?

There is better things you can do with your time young lady sad

Booyhoo Wed 09-Jan-13 15:30:40

i can see why the child's mother doesn't allow her to be at your house.

WaspFactory Wed 09-Jan-13 15:33:27

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NoGinorWine4Mu1berry Wed 09-Jan-13 15:34:28

so you want her to have just enough to live on, while you and your children or his second batch of children live a more comfortable life.

WaspFactory Wed 09-Jan-13 15:34:28

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Booyhoo Wed 09-Jan-13 15:37:57

i left him. because i am wise.

NoGinorWine4Mu1berry Wed 09-Jan-13 15:38:32

It's not "bitter" to want your x to make equal sacrifices for parenthood. Being a father hardly impacts upon my x at all and it has affected every aspect of my life enormously from my career, to whether or not I can have another relationship, practical constraints, emotional overload, worries about the future..... Acknowledging this disparity in how parenthood has impacted upon our lives does not make me bitter. It makes me aware. Unlike you, Waspfactory. Let's hope your "partner" doesn't start a third family, ehy? wink

olgaga Wed 09-Jan-13 15:38:44

I came on here to discuss money and having kids, I didn't ask you to join in.

OK then Wasp so what is your response to my posts upthread which I spent quite a lot of time and effort researching links and information for you?

TheBOF Wed 09-Jan-13 15:42:28

Must have been a quick lunch hmm

AnAirOfHope Wed 09-Jan-13 15:42:49

Are you for realy?

To laught and judge you of course. Your life makes mine look sooooo much better grin

Im married and not bitter at all lol

FairyJen Wed 09-Jan-13 15:44:17

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Viviennemary Wed 09-Jan-13 15:45:21

In a way it's really for your partner and his ex to work out their finances. If he thinks he is paying too much then he should seek to re-negotiate the amount. If you are already feeling anxious about the fact that she is at home not working and you are then I don't think this feleing of resentment is going to get any better. It may get a lot worse when you have your own children. But I can absolutely see why this is a bone of contention especially if she is getting what you consider to be generous benefits as well as generous maintentance.

NoGinorWine4Mu1berry Wed 09-Jan-13 15:46:53

This comment from OP early on
"
Yes, I'm aware of that, he pays more than the minimum and I don't think she's being honest about her situation. "

In other words you do want most of the financial sacrifice for parenthood to be HERS. Big of you that you have no problem paying "the minimum" but anything beyond that, oh no no no you have to find a better balance. Why? becaues you believe that ultimately the greater share of the financial sacrifice for parenthood will be HERS rather than the child's father. The minimum doesn't even come close to being half let me tell you.

WaspFactory Wed 09-Jan-13 15:47:08

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WaspFactory Wed 09-Jan-13 15:49:55

Vivienne - there's no resentment from me, this was purely a question about what she might be getting. I've never been in her situation so I've no idea (although I do now from some of the sane responses to this thread).

And from what I've read on here, the benefits are far from generous so I'm glad I asked. It seems my friend has got it wrong.

Booyhoo Wed 09-Jan-13 15:50:10

if i thought any of what i say was actually something you wanted to know i would share. but as i know you are trying to bait me i wont bite.

you really aren't helping yourself here.

AnAirOfHope Wed 09-Jan-13 15:51:59

Wasp please let me know your secrate of how you get with a man you know is a father and then complaine that he has to support her?

FairyJen Wed 09-Jan-13 15:53:23

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WaspFactory it's you who say you can afford to pay for your children 100% on your own. I don't think Booyhoo could. I honestly can't either and I earn more than your BF if £500 is 30% of his monthly salary. (Unless you are talking about weekly).

WaspFactory Wed 09-Jan-13 15:53:39

NoGin - so what about when she starts working? Or what if her current partner moves in with her and contributes financially? Should he still pay more than CSA suggest? What about if we want to take her on holiday or buy her clothes etc?

(Incidentally she started seeing him very soon after they split and SD has met him and been to his house so the access thing is very hypocritical)

BOF, a quick lunch during which a soon-to-be-ex hands you 10K. Don't you have these all the time, darling? Is that not how most divorces go?

OP, I say well done, darling. You must be so pleased with your life. Isn't it ideal to drag a reluctant OH into TTC while you are both married to other people? Is that not what everyone hopes for? So glad you are happy, as you so rightly said nobody is perfect, to hell with bourgeoisie conventions or ever considering other people in your decisions. Best of luck, dear.

And I'm one of the bitter ones going /gasp at how people can earning £50k and be poor. (That's re the child benefit change).

WaspFactory I don't think she'll want to go on holiday with you. My parents nearly went through a divorce with OW and I was very very bitter towards her. (Have never met her and will never want to meet her).

ArtexMonkey Wed 09-Jan-13 15:57:59

If you could afford to have a child with your boyfriend you wouldn't have had to wait until your husband gave you £10k op.

Perhaps you could all go on Jeremy Kyle, see what he has to say on the matter.

AnAirOfHope Wed 09-Jan-13 15:58:56

What did you think would happen?

You should know that the older the child gets the more money the child will want and need.

The money your partner will.pay for xmas, Birthdays holidays school trips and petrol in going to get her for access will be on top of the maintance for food clothes and housing the child.

10 years ago my economic tutor told me the average spend in the first year of a childs lofe is 2.5k with.inflation today its a lot more.

PMSL at you. I did spil my coke lol

FairyJen Wed 09-Jan-13 15:59:57

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WaspFactory Wed 09-Jan-13 16:00:48

youngblowfish - aw, thanks, I am really pleased actually. After all I've got a great job, loving partner, cute SD, I'm soon to be debt-free and about to start TTC by first baby. I've never been happier tbh grin

ArtexMonkey Wed 09-Jan-13 16:02:27

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InNeatCognac Wed 09-Jan-13 16:02:57

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

WaspFactory Wed 09-Jan-13 16:03:43

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InNeatCognac Wed 09-Jan-13 16:04:09

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

WaspFactory Wed 09-Jan-13 16:04:41

InNeat - which part of that do you actually believe to be true?

ArtexMonkey Wed 09-Jan-13 16:04:42

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Booyhoo Wed 09-Jan-13 16:05:15

fwiw. you dont have a SD. you are her dad's current bit on the side (who has been on the scene 6 months!) and you dont see her.

interesting how the mask has dropped.

gone from being oh so concerned (yeah right!) about EX and only wanting to make sure she doesn't struggle to laughing about taking this money from the child!

WaspFactory Wed 09-Jan-13 16:06:14

Artex - I have a house to sell, keep up, poppet.

WaspFactory Wed 09-Jan-13 16:07:19

Booyhoo - I've missed you, sweetie. You forget to tell me your secret, I'm dying to know.

AnAirOfHope Wed 09-Jan-13 16:07:47

Do you have any idea how hard it is looking after a baby 24/7?

Wasp, absolutely, always focus on the positive and ignore the wreckages left behind, your own inner emotional vacuum and this nest of vipers. Ignore, I beg you. Fingers in ears, lalalalala.

Would it not be ideal if your future child found themselves in this position decades down the line? I know I could not wish for anything more.

ArtexMonkey Wed 09-Jan-13 16:10:18

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Booyhoo Wed 09-Jan-13 16:10:55

denial is not just a river in Egypt wasp. you may be fooling yourself into thinking you are ok with your situation but it is clear for all here to see that you are trying way too hard to convince us you are happy. like another poster, i do feel a tiny bit sorry for you, because you do, eventually, reap what you sow.

sunshine401 Wed 09-Jan-13 16:12:27

If she only has one child and does not work she will get hardly anything from benifits

AnAirOfHope Wed 09-Jan-13 16:12:30

grin @ ArtexMonkey

Viviennemary Wed 09-Jan-13 16:13:08

So if it isn't an issue why are you concerned about how much benefit she is getting and how much your DP is paying in maintenance. I thought it was an issue or why do you need to know. confused

ArtexMonkey Wed 09-Jan-13 16:13:48

<whistles nonchalantly>

AnAirOfHope Wed 09-Jan-13 16:14:10

(And more and more from her exh)

AnAirOfHope Wed 09-Jan-13 16:19:38

Also OP you should know that 2/3 marrages fail in the first 3 years of a childs life and thats only married couples not for couples that just live together.

Child change the dynamic of a relationship and sleep depravation is a love killer.

Just saying.

AnAirOfHope Wed 09-Jan-13 16:21:53

I live outside of london and childcare for one child is 17k per year. How much do you earn if you cant even pay off 15k of debt?

DontmindifIdo Wed 09-Jan-13 16:24:40

OP - here goes, I know a few second wives, one at least was the OW, and while not ideal, life is complicated and people don't always think about the best way to do things when emotions are involved.

However, every second wife who's relationship has worked long term has had to make certain decisions, one being that a) the step children need to come first and b) they don't get to have anywhere near as good a lifestyle as if they'd been the first wife. So while his first wife could afford to be a SAHM, if a third of his salary is only £500, then he can't afford to support a second family, you will have to give up that idea. If he could afford to provide a certain size of house and a certain standard of living for his first wife (indeed, you in your marriage could expect certain levels), if you are to be the second wife, you have to accept a significantly lower standard of living. Getting into debt in order to try to have the lifestyle you think you should have isn't a long term plan, you have to find a man without baggage, or accept this man will never give you that lifestyle. The only 2nd wife I know who isn't having to pay the bulk of the bills and their lifestyle is one who married a bloke on over £1m a year, every other 2nd DW has had to accept if they want a nice house and good standard of living, they will have to pay for it themselves.

Certainly if he's only taking home such a small sum each month and has a family to support already, you really need to accept funding for any DCs you have will have to be down to you, and practically you can't afford to take a year off after having a DC if you are doing it with a DP who's got other family commitments, you've got debts and neither of you are earning high wages. With your DP's wage levels it would be a struggle even if he was single with no other commitments.

You might have to give up some things you want from life, but that's the cost of being with this man. You've picked a man who already has commitments that are bigger than his relationship with you, only you know if it's worth it, but you can't sidestep those or the knock on effects to your relationship (ie. you can't expect him to fund anything other than the basics, you probably can't have DCS for a couple of years without it being a massive struggle, his free time will never be entirely reseved for you and your DCs, you will forever be 'the other woman' amongst his family and friends - many of whom will take against you on principle etc)

I could tell you, but I won't. MYOB

WhistlingNun Wed 09-Jan-13 16:28:27

Wasp - you fail to be grasping that his ex's income has NOTHING to do with the amount of maintenance he legally has to pay.

This is regarding your recent post about when she starts working, or if her boyfriend moves in.

CSA is based solely on your partner's income. If he feels he has the conscience to do so, he can strip it down to the bare minimum of 15%. But i feel this is unfair if he can manage more, just to provide a cushty life for you and a future child.

If you want to buy her clothes etc, fine - do so. But never go below the minimum of 15% in cash. For example, you can't hand over £20 one month and hundreds of pounds worth of clothes. Doesn't work like that.

And i agree that all your 'concern' earlier has turned out to be bitterness. What you're saying to Boo about her leaving her partner is downright nasty.

Alibabaandthe40nappies Wed 09-Jan-13 16:29:39

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WaspFactory Wed 09-Jan-13 16:34:29

Dontmind - I don't want to be a SAHM

AmberLeaf Wed 09-Jan-13 16:34:47

I know the chippy 'LOL' response are just a front OP but you are looking really silly now-just saying.

I was right though wasn't I? you are one of those ones aren't you!

AnAirOfHope Wed 09-Jan-13 16:35:03

What no more laughing OP? grin

WhistlingNun Wed 09-Jan-13 16:37:54

Dontmind - I don't want to be a SAHM

Really hope you've looked into the cost of childcare then.

WaspFactory Wed 09-Jan-13 16:39:04

If you want to comment on my thread on anything other than the original question, or make ridiculous statements about me as a person, at least read it. Otherwise your wasting your own time.

At least Boo, however nasty she has been to me, has been here from the start.

Thanks.

AnAirOfHope Wed 09-Jan-13 16:39:53

You have the sloops the left over bits that is not good enough for his wife.

She has the child the house is a SAHM and a new boyfriend with money and your bf to pay 50% for the child.

What a great life his ex has.

cloudpuff Wed 09-Jan-13 16:40:16

It doesnt matter if Mum marries a millionaire and also gets wage with a mega high salary your dp will still have to pay at least the minimum the csa requires.

BalmainMummy Wed 09-Jan-13 16:40:31

If my husband had a child to support then I would encourage him fully in this and help his ex make his childs life comfortable. But its not being nosy wanting to know roughly how much he should contribute to make this possible. Its tough times for everyone to make ends meet.

AnAirOfHope Wed 09-Jan-13 16:42:26

She will get a job and move in with her boyfriend and your partner will still have to pay mainance and look after his child.

Alibabaandthe40nappies Wed 09-Jan-13 16:42:54

Wasp - you have done something nasty though, and Boo has - fairly recently - been on the receiving end of the same.

If you have children, you will suddenly realise just how deep a mother's love and protective instinct towards her children runs. Especially when they are threatened by people who seem to find amusement in being party to a child's life being turned upside down.

I think she can be forgiven for lashing out, particularly in view of the callous and cold nature of your posts. You haven't shown the slightest bit of remorse, of empathy, of kindness or guilt or anything on this thread - or any of your others.
You are clearly out for number one, and fuck anyone who is in your way.

WaspFactory Wed 09-Jan-13 16:43:57

Whistling - once I pay off debts and sell my house, it should be ok. Timing is a big issue tbh because I could get a much better maternity pay deal depending on when I pop. It's only a few months that we might struggle but moving + selling house + back to work = minted grin grin

Snorbs Wed 09-Jan-13 16:45:04

Oh right, you're the poster who wanted to take £5K/£10K from your not-yet-ex husband without telling him about the affair you'd had that ended your marriage.

Have you told your husband about you shagging around behind his back yet, or are you waiting for the cheque to clear before letting that bit of information slip out?

WhistlingNun Wed 09-Jan-13 16:45:27

It's only a few months that we might struggle but moving + selling house + back to work = minted

So what's the point of this thread? If you'll be 'minted' why will maintenance need to decrease?

happynewmind Wed 09-Jan-13 16:46:38

IMHO its not about what the csa says you should pay.
In my niave view if you have a child you should be responsible for half of what it costs for that child to live whether or not his ex marries a billionaire he created that child.

Half of food, half of heating , half of housing , half of uniform costs, trips, shoes coats , everything.

Now bearing that in mind this week dd has needed a new coat/shoes and a new school cardigan.

Plus her dinner money

They are doing Victorians in school and i need a costume and £10 for a trip To a Victorian place.

She is doing a school music scheme and that is 32 hire and 45 lessons.

The annual year 6 residential letter has come home and she needs nearly 200 pound for that.

That's just one week in a state school.

Tbh i was with you at the very start but now you are coming across awfully.

Your not a step mum your her dads girlfriend at the moment.

The ex was left on her own because he left his daughter for you. Now your on here having a crisis over what he pays for the child left behind.

Alibabaandthe40nappies Wed 09-Jan-13 16:48:10

Well if you are going to be minted then your BF can keep paying £500 to his daughter, can't he?

Which I am sure you, as a loving and caring stepmother will be delighted about.

smile

WaspFactory Wed 09-Jan-13 16:48:38

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DontmindifIdo Wed 09-Jan-13 16:48:43

OK, great you don't want to be a stay at home mum, but let me repeat - I live in the south east but outside the M25 - a full time nursery place is over £1k a month. This assumes I can drop off after 8am and pick up before 6pm, if you need to leave for work earlier/return later, it's more expensive again. If your DP brings home approx £1.5k a month, once you take out nursery costs for just one DC and any travel costs he has, even if you are able to reduce his payments to his exW to 15%, you are still going to have to cover all bills and household costs for all of you.

If he leaves you, you would expect 15% of his wage (he's not going to be able to be more generous with 2 exs) - take your wage, remove £1k a month, add £250 from him, then look again, could you live off that and repay your debts? You need to be really sure he's going to stick around and have some savings behind you and debts cleared before starting a family...

WaspFactory Wed 09-Jan-13 16:50:44

I don't mind paying the money, again if you read my posts you would know that. We will be in a much better position soon but there be a short-term struggle which is why I asked the question.

MissPricklePants Wed 09-Jan-13 16:51:31

OP, you slept with a man who you knew was married and a father, and yet only 6 months in you think this man should be paying less for his child?!absolutely disgusting! you sound very cold and callous, his daughter and ex have to get used to the fact that he has left them both for you. I wouldn't want you anywhere near my child. Fwiw I think both you and your 'D'P will struggle with a relationship together as you were both unfaithful...that leaves room for a lot of insecurities to develop. What he pays towards his daughters upkeep is not your business! Oh and if you will be minted then his maintenance can remain the same?

WaspFactory Wed 09-Jan-13 16:52:06

Dontmind - we both earn £30k+ each. HTH.

WaspFactory Wed 09-Jan-13 16:53:12

Yay - we've got another one! Welcome grin

Wallison Wed 09-Jan-13 16:53:20

I actually feel really sorry for the little girl in all this. Not only has she had her family life ripped apart by you, but you are now trying to work out how much the money paid for her upkeep can be reduced by.

MissPricklePants Wed 09-Jan-13 16:53:22

'gaggle of mental women'

No dear, we are a nest of vipers, didn't you know that?

WaspFactory Wed 09-Jan-13 16:56:50

Family life ripped apart? Erm, no, she has separated parents, just like loads of other kids. Except her Dad loves her and wants to see her and do the best for her, unlike a lot of the scumbags mentioned on MN.

FairyJen Wed 09-Jan-13 16:59:37

She is 4. Trust me as far as she is concerned her life has been ripped apart. She will continue to feel like that long after your dp has ditched you for his next bit of fluff

Wallison Wed 09-Jan-13 17:00:56

She's four years old and her daddy has left her home! Just have a fucking think about what you are saying.

happynewmind Wed 09-Jan-13 17:02:57

If you are going to be in a better situation soon then why this.

"- sorry if I've hit a nerve, I only ask because he could pay a lot less and might have to"

Its not a competition of who won you know.

You come across at the moment as some one who thinks they've won a prize in a "look at me I stole her husband and have a cute sd and can control what money she gets way"

It matters not a jot whether you think she's lying about her financial situation he is responsible for half of that Childs costs.

cloudpuff Wed 09-Jan-13 17:04:33

I can tell you when my Dad left us when I was four my life certainley was ripped apart and there was no other woman involved. God only knows what how she is feeling now.I remember the day he left our home with him crying, mum crying and me crying very very clearly. I am 33 now and that memory upsets me still, please do not underestimate the affect this will have on his little girl.

higgle Wed 09-Jan-13 17:06:11

If you know a bit about her general circumstances you can work it out yourself from the Diret.gov web site on benefits. OP I feel sorry that you are getting flack on here, although her precise financial situation is obviously private it is helpful for you to know in outline about the fuller financial situation your DP is in. Why don't you ask him a bit more about how she lives an dthen do some research?

happynewmind Wed 09-Jan-13 17:07:42

I'm speechless at the last comment but as you aren't a mum you won't understand.

My friends dh just left, the child is nine, blaming herself, sobbing hersself to sleep at night, struggling at school.

Her dad loves and sees her too.

Of course her world has been turned upside down.

Booyhoo Wed 09-Jan-13 17:11:41

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WaspFactory Wed 09-Jan-13 17:12:13

More people who miss the point or haven't read the posts.

Thanks Higgle smile

WaspFactory £30k isn't minted in the SE. (Which I assume you are in). See multiple poster saying childcare alone is over £1k a month full time outside London. Mine costs £45 a day, and you pay even if you are on holiday. Now you have said your number, I can also tell you both me and DH are on the higher end of £30k and we have to tighten our belts a lot for one child. And we have no debts (except a mortgage) and 6 months savings. You'll need that savings with a child. There are waiting lists on nursery places and you can't risk to give up the space just because you lose your job, for example.

And seriously, my take home pay is about £2k after tax. After you pay £1k on childcare, £700 on rent, can you still afford all the bills and food on £300?

And this Family life ripped apart? Erm, no, she has separated parents, just like loads of other kids. Except her Dad loves her and wants to see her and do the best for her, unlike a lot of the scumbags mentioned on MN.

Speechless, really.

WaspFactory Wed 09-Jan-13 17:15:05

Boo - you're just miffed that you tried to be hurtful to me and failed. You'll get over it grin

AmberLeaf Wed 09-Jan-13 17:15:18

You started off being worried that you wouldn't be able to afford maternity leave unless your boyfriend cuts how much he contributes to his daughter.....now suddenly you are minted with a wonderful life?

Deluded is not the word!

Thing is, in the fullness of time you will realise what a wally you have been.

Ofc you could be minted because you are getting an inheritance we haven't heard about yet wink

Booyhoo Wed 09-Jan-13 17:17:41

yes of course OP. whatever you need to believe.

Booyhoo Wed 09-Jan-13 17:19:48

and it's not as if anyone else is saying the same thing as i am is it? it must be me that's wrong hmm

Alibabaandthe40nappies Wed 09-Jan-13 17:20:08

OneLittle - maybe she has another ex-husband tucked away who is miraculously going to give her £££ out of the goodness of his heart.

Or a lottery win.

<gets out notebook>

CinnabarRed Wed 09-Jan-13 17:22:31

OK, leaving aside the your XH/his XW part, I just don't get why you want to bring another child into the mix so soon.

You started seeing your BF in May 2012, when you went on the pill, having been working with him for years beforehand. As of December, you were still saying you hated children.

Somehow, sometime over Christmas you had a road-to-Damascus style conversation, and decided you had to have a child.

As of last Sunday morning, you were posting that you want a DC but your BF isn't sure so you were going to stick with the pill for the time being.

Last Sunday evening confused you posted that you've thrown your pills away.

Earlier today you started not one but two threads asking if you might be pregnant already, after shagging on Monday and Tuesday nights.

FFS, slow down. Give everyone in this situation, yourself included, another few months to let the raw emotions which must still be floating around settle. Then see if you still want a baby so badly.

Reaa Wed 09-Jan-13 17:23:09

What on earth is going on here, I have gone from feeling sorry for the op to hating her.....it's sounding to me the only reason you op want a baby is so you can say haha I have your man and his baby now look at me aren't I much better than you! How can you even think about having a baby when neither of you are in a position to have one.....if you really love each other then wait until divorce(s) come through and houses have been dealt with and lets not forget a poor little girl is wondering where her daddy has gone and what did do wrong to make him go away!

Chandon Wed 09-Jan-13 17:28:04

I agree the OP comes across as hard, unfeeling and selfish. No feeling for the girl at all, nothing...

Somehow. OP, you are literally, extremely calculating, don't you even feel a tiny bit embarrassed?

happynewmind Wed 09-Jan-13 17:30:56

You started off this thread as a reasonable woman worried about having enough money to support themselves and a baby while their partner supported his child.

Hence I answered with figures.

You end this thread as someone who quite frankly thinks its all hilarious that you have split up a family.

You dont give a damn about that four year old, you can't even see that she will of have her world tipped over.

Oh and I wish I had a pound for every man I've heard say that he "hadn't been happy for ages"

fuzzywuzzy Wed 09-Jan-13 17:32:29

Without giving you exact figures OP. I'm a SP. with a very good job.

ex pays CSA (via an attachment if earning order) & the mortgage on the former marital home in which the children & I reside, he has no entitlement on the profits of my property in the event I sell it.

In view of this OP, maybe you may wish to consider exactly how much more your OH could be paying his ex, perhaps you may decide the current arrangement your OH has in view of what a court could order is far more palatable.

groundhogday17 Wed 09-Jan-13 17:32:55

Wow just read the other thread about the ex giving her £5k. So he doesn't know about the affair yet OP went on to accept £10k from him!

Boggler Wed 09-Jan-13 17:34:26

Op that poor child's life has been definitely ripped apart, she's gone from having a family with mum and dad to just being her and mum and seeing dad sometimes. If you had children of your own you would never be able to say such flippant arrogant things - "her life's not been ripped apart, she just has separated parents like loads of other children" you're totally heartless and I hope your bf sees sense and makes for the door before you start demanding he pays less for his dd, then cuts down the time spent with her so he can be with you more etc.

AnAirOfHope Wed 09-Jan-13 17:36:47

I get it.

Right so he spent xmas with his dd and not you and you relised you will always have to share him on special holidays like xmas and eadter with his dd. So you think if you have a child he will have to spend it with you as your a family and if he must see dd she can join your family xmas.

Right?

WaspFactory Wed 09-Jan-13 17:38:27

cinnabar - it was the money issue that worried him, which has mostly been resolved.

As I've said countless times, in the long term, money is not a problem.

flowery Wed 09-Jan-13 17:38:53

There is something distastefully gleeful about the OP's recent posts.

Hopefully it's just a defence mechanism as it sounds as though underneath it all she is feeling far far from secure in her life with her boyfriend, unsurprisingly. It's all a bit panicky.

groundhogday17 Wed 09-Jan-13 17:41:19

OP you're really coming across quite unhinged now

WaspFactory Wed 09-Jan-13 17:41:26

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ArtexMonkey Wed 09-Jan-13 17:43:03

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There are a couple of websites that will give you a rough guide as to what benefits a single parent could be entitled to but remember that maintenance is not means tested against benefits so really its a pointless exercise in trying to find out. Even if you did it is not right that you should then sit with those figures and decide for yourself how much his ex needs to live on and support their child. That is her own business. It doesn't affect the maintenance at all.

I think the most important issue you should be considering, far more important than financial planning for any future children is trying to help your partner's daughter settle down into her new family structure. Yes, millions of children's parents are separated but that doesn't make it any easier to deal with when it happens to them and it affects a lot of them for the rest of their lives, affecting their schoolwork, their friendships, future relationships and potential future prospects. You seem to underestimate the rolling impact it has on both parents, the children and any new partners trying to build a relationship. To rush in at this point and actually plan a baby when the dust hasn't even settled yet with your partner's break up (and believe me 6 months in a marriage breakdown with children involved is nothing compared to the years these things can rumble on for) shows a lot of niavety and lack of understanding about how things are for others involved in the situation.

I say this as a stepmum to 2 boys for 8 years who STILL struggle with their parents living apart and whose dad helps out financially over the top of legal requirements without question. Yes the early days were fraught with DH and his EX both trying to reset their new boundaries but thankfully those days are gone now (and is a normal part of a marriage breakdown and they have to be allowed to go about it without interference) and we are all at a more civil point in our lives. It has taken a long time to get here, many tears, arguments and solicitors letters.

The maintenance payable is set out in the CSA calculator, is payable by your partner and is deemed HIS legal responsibility, not yours too. Whilst you may feel it's coming from your pocket too he still has to pay that whether he is with you or not. You need to mentally separate it. When we do our monthly finances the maintenance payment is up there with our mortgage and council tax - its a priority. The extra payments for their children are made as and when DH's EX approaches HIM to request the assistance. He makes the final decision but always lets me know first as a matter of courtesy that money will be leaving our bank account.

I really feel you need to take a step back and ask if you are ready for a life of being a stepmother, a partner to a man with an EXP and child and for a lifelong financial obligation to somebody else's child (we all know money doesn't stop being spent when our children turn 18!) It can really mess with your head if you are not in the right place mentally to start with and I have seen a few relationships breakdown after 2 or 3 years before children have even come along in the new family...

AThingInYourLife Wed 09-Jan-13 17:45:42

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Reaa Wed 09-Jan-13 17:45:50

If money not a prob in long term then ffs wait b4 ttc

WaspFactory Wed 09-Jan-13 17:46:45

Artex - I know, good eh?

What do you do that you have so much time to become borderline obsessed with me to the point of reading all my posts? Not complaining, after all I am an attention seeker - right?grin

AnAirOfHope Wed 09-Jan-13 17:50:44

You have been given an answer on the first page. You must be too stupid to read it.

happynewmind Wed 09-Jan-13 17:51:08

Exactly what Sparkle said.

Boggler Wed 09-Jan-13 17:51:38

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AnAirOfHope Wed 09-Jan-13 17:55:41

Im a SAHM and im looking after our baby sat on sofa bf all day

I have all the day to waste on here thanks to my dh grin

ArtexMonkey Wed 09-Jan-13 17:56:59

Me? I'm a lady of leisure grin too gorgeous children thanks for asking, no counting down the ticks of my bio clock or mental wistful gazing at babies in the supermarket here ta smile

Tell me more though, about your job. I worry I'd be overqualified you see, what with knowing the difference between 'your' and 'you're' and '5' and '10'.

ArtexMonkey Wed 09-Jan-13 17:58:13

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WaspFactory Wed 09-Jan-13 18:00:59

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WaspFactory Wed 09-Jan-13 18:04:50

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EnjoyResponsibly Wed 09-Jan-13 18:05:26

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HelenMumsnet (MNHQ) Wed 09-Jan-13 18:06:55

Evening all.

We know this is the kind of thread that can get everyone's emotions running high. But please can we remind you all of our Talk Guidelines, especially that it is against our site rules...

* to attack anyone personally

* to trollhunt (ie suggest someone is making things up and/or posting purely to mislead or wind up)

If you have any concerns about any poster, please do report them to us at MNHQ - and we'll take a look.

Boggler Wed 09-Jan-13 18:07:46

Not sure why I was deleted, just said I'd read op's other threads and they're very enlightening.

ProphetOfDoom Wed 09-Jan-13 18:09:04

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TheCrackFox Wed 09-Jan-13 18:09:46

Wow, you lead such an interesting life.

Almost like reading a novel or an article from a magazine.

Go ahead and have a baby. Great idea. When you and DP split up in a few years time you will be minted enough to pay for the baby all on your own.

HelenMumsnet (MNHQ) Wed 09-Jan-13 18:09:48

Boggler

Not sure why I was deleted, just said I'd read op's other threads and they're very enlightening.

No, you said you'd read her other threads and couldn't decide "if you're bonkers, heartless or just plain deluded". That's a (triple) personal attack, Boggler.

AnAirOfHope Wed 09-Jan-13 18:11:43

I have been trying for years but noone else wants him confused

I guess they dont want to be second best sad

Boggler Wed 09-Jan-13 18:13:13

Point taken MN sad

HelenMumsnet (MNHQ) Wed 09-Jan-13 18:14:15

Boggler

Point taken MN sad

Thank you. Don't be sad; just don't do it again smile

borninastorm Wed 09-Jan-13 18:16:09

Respect to your partner for not just paying the minimum for his child. Too many fathers pay nothing or as little as theycan get away with.

His child will know this as he grows up and will respect his father for being a father who looked after him financially and helped him get a start in life despite the breakdown of the relationship with his mother.

LineRunner Wed 09-Jan-13 18:16:23

OP, is there any biological 'rush' for you to become pregnant IYSWIM. I haven't read you other threads so don't know if you are worried about your age or not.

LineRunner Wed 09-Jan-13 18:16:51

your other threads

sorry typo

WeAreEternal Wed 09-Jan-13 18:25:21

Who needs to watch soaps when you can just come on MN for threads like this one.

Alibabaandthe40nappies Wed 09-Jan-13 18:27:20

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donburi Wed 09-Jan-13 18:29:55

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Alibabaandthe40nappies Wed 09-Jan-13 18:33:37

Oh what - that gets deleted? I only called her old, that is hardly an insult!

groundhogday17 Wed 09-Jan-13 18:34:01

It's all a bit Jeremy Kyle. You know the sort of people you can't believe exist in real life

nkf Wed 09-Jan-13 18:34:18

The csa rate is for deadbeats. I would hope no woman would consider taking up with a man who paid only that amount. No idea what his ex gets. I'm sure you will be able to ferret it out.

Booyhoo Wed 09-Jan-13 18:35:56

ali MNHQ have gone trigger happy with the delete button. posts that weren't in breach of the guidlines are being deleted.

AnAirOfHope Wed 09-Jan-13 18:42:15

I only had one of my post deleted but the op post asking if im for real and making fun of my disability dyslexia get to stay sad

InNeatCognac Wed 09-Jan-13 18:42:33

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

olgaga Wed 09-Jan-13 18:43:17

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

lunar1 Wed 09-Jan-13 18:52:29

Op keep this thread. In two years when you have a young child and your boyfriend walks out on you for a new ow and a new family, you will realise the pain of splitting up a family.

You will realise how much you love your child and won't be able to understand how he could do this to you both.

You and your child will become just another disposable family to a cheating man who thinks the grass is always greener.

Can you really not understand why she doesn't want her dd around an ow!

noddyholder Wed 09-Jan-13 18:53:33

MN at its finest.....not

DontmindifIdo Wed 09-Jan-13 19:02:40

well OP, either you are lying about how much your DP earns, or you are wrong that he's paying out 30% of his income, he clearly is paying out only a little above what he would have to pay on CSA calculators, so your original question is wrong.

Plus remember as htey are married, she's entitled to apply for spousal maintenance as well as child support. She is his wife and as such, has much more claim over his finances than his DP would.

However, you might want to look again at your plans, I'd delay until his full financial settlement is sorted, he might end up having to pay out more than he is now when they get divorced, have you considered that? This isn't the most he could be made to pay by a long way...

I really would not link my finances with a man who is still going through a divorce, and I would advise him to avoid the same with you until your divorce is finalised too (as I understand it, you have a non-working H you are divorcing, you are aware that he could apply for spousal maintenance from you? Especially as you previously have supported him financially. Obviously right now he's not and is being reasonable, but if he finds out about your affair and/or gets a good solicitor, you might find you have to pay out to keep him until he gets a job).

It's really not a good idea making plans for children until you know what both of you are able to bring to the table, and if once the excitment of the affair has ended if you can make a normal, dull, everyday relationship with your DP work.

CrystalEclipse Wed 09-Jan-13 19:10:22

Well I've made some shockingly poor decisions in my time, sadly I never had the collective mumsnet wisdom to warn me. Beforehand.

Op you have some choices. Sadly I fear you will go down the route you're currently on. But seriously it's a really bad choice. You can look at the hail of abuse your getting and think "poor me"

Or you can have a really long think about what the nest of vipers is trying to tell you

I fear you recognise the big thing your relationship doesn't have that the marriage does. Fact is he's not paying over the odds because he's a good guy. It's guilt money.

Which leaves you with an almighty problem. you can't reduce It else he will hold you to blame for that.

Whether she's living the life of riley at your dps expense or impoverished, seriously your best leaving well alone.

I'd wait too before I bought a dc of my own into the mix. It won't keep him if he finds he's missing his family too much, you'll just be the rebound woman noone likes. Give It a while to secure your finances and build some bridges.

Smo2 Wed 09-Jan-13 19:11:50

Good on him for paying extra...my ex pays the bare minimum and buys them nothing extra, despite having a substantial second income.

LineRunner Wed 09-Jan-13 19:13:14

That's true, Dontmind I haven't read the other threads and hadn't realised there was another spouse with a potential claim, against the OP. A woman I know got stung for nearly £50k on a £100k property by a man she wasn't even married to, once a solicitor became involved and it transpired he'd helped to re-decorate the property.

I suppose it is hard though when one's age is against one.

Arisbottle Wed 09-Jan-13 19:31:59

If your partner has made an agreement to his existing family that has to be honored before he had a new family, unless there is a big change in circumstances .

That is the choice you make when you enter into a relationship with someone who already has a family to support.

LineRunner Wed 09-Jan-13 20:20:47

Arisbottle, I have seen your posts elsewhere. You seem extremely committed to not causing upset for your step-DC.

Portofino Wed 09-Jan-13 20:32:16

shock That poor child. I am glad her father is making a proper contribution.

Arisbottle Wed 09-Jan-13 20:34:41

No more so than any other step parent. As a previous poster said, if you choose to be the second wife you have to accept the existing priorities .

ihearsounds Wed 09-Jan-13 21:10:34

Hopefully he shall forver remain guilty and continue to provide for his dd with his ex. If it wasnt for you she would still have the two parents in her life, and would have a more comfortable life than she currently is.

If you dont like how much he wants to provide for his child, then you have an option. Go and sink your claws into another sucker.

Just remember, that karma is a bitch and will ocme back to bite you in your arse.

LineRunner Wed 09-Jan-13 21:21:59

It does sound rather sad, OP, if you are feeling tick-tocky and your boyfriend is feeling guilty. I can see entirely why you would want to post on MN for advice.

I thnk the best advice is to take things slowly, and always put the existing DC first.

Starrsmummy Wed 09-Jan-13 21:42:49

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

LineRunner Wed 09-Jan-13 21:51:35

Nah, Booyhoo's not bitter. She contributes lots to many threads on MN to the benefit of the MN community. Some people on the other hand are just takers.

The idea that lone parents might be out 'getting drunk all the time' - is that projection?

Starrsmummy Wed 09-Jan-13 21:52:22

I take it all back after continuing to read the thread.

Booyhoo Wed 09-Jan-13 21:55:37

read the thread starrsmummy.

Booyhoo Wed 09-Jan-13 21:57:40

xpost.

EnjoyResponsibly Wed 09-Jan-13 21:59:37

Starrs you'll find that happened to a lot of reasonable people today once they read the OP's later comments.

Booyhoo Wed 09-Jan-13 21:59:54

actually not much point reading the thread. half of it's been deleted so it doesn't make sense anymore.

BluelightsAndSirens Wed 09-Jan-13 22:01:47

I was going to post some helpful advice but now after reading the entire thread in one I'm to confused to be helpful.

Booyhoo Wed 09-Jan-13 22:03:26

oh thanks line blush

LineRunner Wed 09-Jan-13 22:09:39

And on the issue of lone parents and non-essentials.

If I earn, say, £1,750 a month, and ExH gives me £150 a month for two DCs, and I separately choose to spend £150 a month of my own money on non-essentials, does that mean that my ExH is subsidising me 'getting drunk all the time'?

Hardly.

It means I am bringing up his DCs very well, on my own. His pittance doesn't even scrape at the gas, electricity and broadband bills.

But it suits him to say he gives me a 'fortune' that I spend on getting pissed.

FanFuckingTastic Wed 09-Jan-13 22:11:11

I remember when my ex got a girlfriend (I say got, I think he may have already had and that it just became apparent to me when they decided) and the first thing she started niggling him on was how much money we had agreed on for maintenance. It's sadly fairly common.

happynewmind Wed 09-Jan-13 22:25:59

Id like to know where this impression of single mums getting drunk all the time comes from.

1. I can't afford to.
2. If I did I would still have to get up with dc so its not worth it.

I've been out twice in six years as a lone mum both where work related!

InNeatCognac Wed 09-Jan-13 22:33:40

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

DollyTwat Wed 09-Jan-13 23:21:10

I can never quite decide how to spend my £5 a week

Doesn't cover my fags and booze requirements adequately

Reaa Wed 09-Jan-13 23:27:19

What does xpost mean?

TheBOF Wed 09-Jan-13 23:33:37

It means you posted before reading what someone wrote while you were typing.

Reaa Wed 09-Jan-13 23:33:51

I figured it out......cross post grin so proud of myself grin (or just as dumb as op)

TheBOF Wed 09-Jan-13 23:36:44

RTFT took me a bit of working out when I first saw it grin

borninastorm Wed 09-Jan-13 23:39:47

OP at least if you do have a child with this man you can do so safe in the knowledge that he'll pay for it should you split up.

LineRunner Thu 10-Jan-13 00:06:36

It's cute, though, isn't it?

If you allow yourself, say, one bottle of wine per week, and your ExH pays a fiver a week, then he can say, 'She spends ALL the maintenance money on drink'.

Irrespective of your own income that pays for actually raising the DC.

fuckadoodlepoopoo Thu 10-Jan-13 08:14:43

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

CheeseandPickledOnion Thu 10-Jan-13 13:04:14

happynewmind, in some cases (mine for example) I know she's out on the lash all weekend every weekend because DH sees the people and bottles still lying pissed all over the house if he picks up on a Sat am. Also she likes to publish it ALL OVER Facebook with pictures and disgusting comments.

InNeatCognac Thu 10-Jan-13 13:07:30

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

shine0ncrazydiamond Thu 10-Jan-13 14:13:41

Gosh, then your DH is a neglectful parent based on that.

I'm imagining a man tip toeing over pissed bodies and rolling bottles to reach his children. Maybe consider reporting to SS eh?

fuckadoodlepoopoo Thu 10-Jan-13 15:18:38

Blimey cheese that's awful!

olgaga Thu 10-Jan-13 15:44:49

Cheese if it's really that bad I'm surprised your DH hasn't done something about it. As others have pointed out though, it's not really your business, and doesn't affect the fact that he has to pay maintenance for his children.

DontmindifIdo Thu 10-Jan-13 15:45:11

BTW - OP if you do come back to this thread, can I just say be very, very wary of pissing off a non-working wife before a financial settlement is confirmed. As I mentioned she is entitled to claim for spousal maintenance. while you might not be used to people getting this, it is common and if I heard a friend say that her soon to be exH's OW was trying to reduce what he'd agreed to give her, I'd be advising she got a solicitor and started looking at spousal maintenance. That wouldn't just be paid until the youngest DC is 18 or left full time education as child maintenance would be, but potentially for the rest of their lives. She can claim not just what hte CSA says he should pay to keep his DC, but to keep her. If she is currently 'kept' she can ask for that to continue.

Now, as he doens't earn a high wage, then she probalywon't get that forever/a large amount, but it could be used as a negoiation tool by her solicitor and end up with your DP having to pay far more than the money he's agreed now. Let me put it this way, a friend who's exW got angry (when finding out about his affair with my friend half way through his 'this isn't working out' divorce) has an agreement that he pays 75% of his income to his exW until the youngest DC leaves full time education. 75%. Thankfully, he earns a high wage, his 2ndDW (my friend) earns a good wage and they can cope on that, and the youngest DC has just finished A levels so not long to go before it drops dramatically. But don't ever fall into the trap of assuming the amount an unmarried woman can get from her exP (CSA levels) is anywhere near what a exW can get if she gets a good solicitor. And your H would definately have a claim on your income even though you don't have DCs. Pray he gets a good job soon.

Never, never piss off a woman during a divorce unless you can afford it. And if he's earning less than £40k, he can't afford it.

AnAirOfHope Thu 10-Jan-13 15:47:57

If that is true then report to ss or police. It is illagel to be drunk and incharge of childern.

Snorbs Thu 10-Jan-13 16:32:46

It's not illegal to be drunk and in charge of children in your own home (although Social Services may take an interest). It is against the law to be drunk and in charge of children under the age of 7 while out in public.

AnAirOfHope Thu 10-Jan-13 16:39:03

shock The law needs to change.

InNeatCognac Thu 10-Jan-13 16:57:30

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

AnAirOfHope Thu 10-Jan-13 17:28:17

If you are too drunk to drive a car you are too drunk to look after a child on your own.

Nought wrong with a glass of wine but being drunk incharge of young children even at night when they are sleeping is wrong imho.

Alibabaandthe40nappies Thu 10-Jan-13 17:43:25

WTF? That is ridiculous.

You don't have to be drunk, or anywhere near it to be over the drink drive limit. It is still perfectly possible to look after your children hmm

DontmindifIdo Thu 10-Jan-13 18:16:27

AnAirOfHope - so you'd never have a couple of glasses of wine in the evening when your DCs are in bed??? When not pregnant, there's often a Friday or Saturday night when DH and I arne't fit to drive. Not so drunk as to have hangovers (well, not both of us, it's usually negotiated who's getting up with DS in the morning as the 3rd glass is being poured) but definately over the driving limit. It's pretty normal behaviour for the majority of parents of young DCs...

tink123 Thu 10-Jan-13 18:52:24

I have a few friends who are with ex-DP of someone with a child and most of them do pay over the odds. In fact a few pay all the mortgage costs for their ex-partner. I have never heard one of my friends question how much is being paid for dsd.

I think it is just part of the deal of being with someone from a previous relationship and their child is just as important as your future child.

Arisbottle Thu 10-Jan-13 21:49:20

I agree tink123. I suspect most parents that pay maintenance pay more than the CSA suggests if they can afford to do so.

AnAirOfHope Thu 10-Jan-13 22:06:16

Its ok to disagree with me.

No i would not drink when im looking after my children. The thought of cleaning sick up drunk or trying to deal with a sick child no i would not do it.

When my son was 2 he had a fit at night. At 10pm when i checked on him he was fine at 1am i was woken by tiny grunts i went in and he was fitting and i had to call 999. If i was drunk i would not have heard him the thought of him fitting alone in the dark when i was pissed or sleeping too heary to hear him is unacceptable to me. But then i dont drink anyway so its not a problem for me.

If someone else was pissed and looking after your child would you be ok with that? If your CM or nanny or the school teacher was pissed would you care?

LineRunner Thu 10-Jan-13 22:18:49

I think my point upthread was how easy and cynical is it for some critics of ExWives, for their own reasons, to equate the purchase of a bottle of wine a week with 'drinking all the time' and 'spending all the maintenance on drink'.

AnAirOfHope Thu 10-Jan-13 22:26:19

Disclainer: I mean pissed as in the room spins and you cant walk stright and you pass out or pee in the washing basket and not the loo type pissed. If your the only one in the house looking after baby or young children this type of pissed is stupid and dangerous imo.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LineRunner Thu 10-Jan-13 22:35:40

I agree with that, AnAirofHope, I don't think anyone wouldn't.

LineRunner Thu 10-Jan-13 22:39:03

I mean I agree that if you have a baby you shouldn't drink till you pass out.

AnAirOfHope Thu 10-Jan-13 22:52:17

For a law there would have to be a limit. How that limit was set i dont know - a few glasses of wine fine but to be pissed not fine?

Why expect less of a parent than someone employeed?

Im not going to row about it and i dont want to change your opioin but for me i wouldnt want a teacher or CM to have a few glasses of wine and look after my children so i wouldnt if i was the only adult looking after my children.

If i wanted to drink i would plan it so someone was looking after the children or just have one or two but then i wouldnt see the point and.not bother at all hmm

What you do is up to you.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Alibabaandthe40nappies Thu 10-Jan-13 23:33:07

Air - if you feel that one or two glasses is pointless and that the only thing worth doing is getting so plastered that you can't walk or see straight, then yes I can see why you would feel it necessary to steer clear of alcohol altogether when you are looking after your children.

The comparison with a CM or teacher drinking before doing their job is utterly fatuous.

AnAirOfHope Thu 10-Jan-13 23:44:31

Yes i have lots of issues blush

Why do you feel the need to have alcohol instead of a non alcohol alternative? Non alcoholic beer is cheaper than beer with it in and teaste the same. You can even get non alcoholic wine now as well.

Im 30 years old I have not had alcohol for 5 years due to pg bf then pg and still bf. I dont miss it at all. When in Uni i got drunk alot when i moved in with dh and worked i would go to beer festivals and drink at parties but not to the point of being ill. My mum and Dad never got drunk when i was a child and only ever had larger shandy.

Maybe i do have a twisted view on alcohol and responsable childcare sad

Alibabaandthe40nappies Thu 10-Jan-13 23:50:39

Oh I didn't mean to make you sad, you seemed too thick skinned for it to be possible!

I like wine. Non-alcoholic tastes like crap. It is lovely to have a couple of glasses to unwind. I wouldn't drive, but I can still care for my children and am in full possession of my wits should they be needed.

AnAirOfHope Thu 10-Jan-13 23:56:30

A CM looks after your child when you are not there, when you are there you are looking after the child. Its the same, the child needs the same level of care from a CM as he/she needs from a parent. If you would not want your CM having a few glasses of wine when your child has a nap why would you think its ok for another adult to have a few glasses of wine when the child slepts?

Because you dont like my opioion you are trying to make out i have a drinking problem. Im sorry i dont i have an opioin on drinking while in sole charge of a child.

Alcohol is a drug that affects people emotionally and phyically if you dont want that affect have a soft drink!

AnAirOfHope Fri 11-Jan-13 00:01:10

thick skinned

Are you confusing me with OP or someone else?

I have an opioin about alcohol consumption and childcare. Guess what its allowed to be different from yours shock

Alibabaandthe40nappies Fri 11-Jan-13 00:02:35

Okaaay.

<backs away slowly>

DioneTheDiabolist Fri 11-Jan-13 00:03:06

Oh get over yourself Airofhope. The vast majority of parents know their limits. There is nothing wrong with having a few glasses of wine or whatever as long as it doesn't impact on your care for DCs.

To suggest that a parent drinking is the same as a CM drinking suggests that you don't understand the difference between working and relaxing at home.

AnAirOfHope Fri 11-Jan-13 00:04:40

confused

AnAirOfHope Fri 11-Jan-13 00:08:47

No i dont understand the difference between a CM looking after a child and a parent looking after the child. I would want the same level of care whoever was looking after my child.

Wallison Fri 11-Jan-13 00:26:58

I think it was your comment about not seeing the point of drinking one or two glasses of wine that have made people a bit hmm - it's as though you are saying that if you're drinking you have to get drunk to make it worthwhile.

AnAirOfHope Fri 11-Jan-13 00:36:43

Why do you need alcohol to relax?

I meant its cheaper to drink water or soft drinks so why have alcohol when you are not tippes or feel the affect of it but waste more money on.

I dont see the point when there are better alternatives.

AnAirOfHope Fri 11-Jan-13 00:40:15

Why do you want to drink alcohol when your child is being looked after by you instead of a non alcoholic alternative?

Alibabaandthe40nappies Fri 11-Jan-13 00:47:35

Because nice wine is nice. And if you don't have an alcohol problem it is perfectly possible to enjoy drinking a couple of glasses over an evening and have your childcare abilities unimpaired.

Wallison Fri 11-Jan-13 00:49:37

I don't see that anyone has said they need alcohol to relax.

And as for not feeling the effect after a glass or two - well, I certainly do. Not to the point of incapacity, but giggly and warm, yes, so it's not a waste of money just because I'm not raging drunk.

AnAirOfHope Fri 11-Jan-13 00:54:01

If your child was sick and you were drinking and couldnt drive you would not be able to look after the child as well as you would have if you had not been drinking. Why risk that for a few glasses of wine?

I just dont think its worth the risk.

DioneTheDiabolist Fri 11-Jan-13 01:00:22

Alcohol has never impaired my ability to look after DS. This is the case for the vast majority of parents. I do not drive.

AnAirOfHope Fri 11-Jan-13 01:00:32

"Relaxing at home"

"Its nice to hekp unwind"

So it affects you but not your ability to look after a child? I dont see how that can be true!

There is no law about it and if its what you want to do fine. I chose not to drink alcohol when looking after my children.

AnAirOfHope Fri 11-Jan-13 01:02:35

Well if everyone else does it then it must be ok!

Mosman Fri 11-Jan-13 01:05:06

From what I have seen of relationships that break down often the man does pay more than required for the sake of the children.
One friend is in a very good job £50,000 plus she is a teaching ass was a waitress when they met. If he demanded the house was sold and gave her 50% she couldn't use the 50% to provide a home for his children so it's better for him to pay the mortgage, give her the house and start again as he is far more capable of doing so.

Wallison Fri 11-Jan-13 01:06:44

Looking after a child is not the same as driving a car. I mean, I don't drive but I'm a musician and I certainly can't play the violin after even one glass of wine, but that's because it involves complex motor skills and brain processes. Mopping up sick and sitting propped up in bed while a poorly child nuzzles into you, even all night, does not require the same level of brain activity.

DioneTheDiabolist Fri 11-Jan-13 01:11:27

I know it doesn't effect my ability.

One night 3 years ago DS got really sick in the night. Despite having drank 3 glasses of wine I was up, dressed, had DS stripped washed and dressed and in a cab on the way to the hospital in less than 10 minutes.

I get that you chose not to Airofhope, you know how you react to alcohol and have made an educated decision regarding your circumstances. Your choice however does not qualify you to preach to others or suggest that their parenting is impaired.

AnAirOfHope Fri 11-Jan-13 01:50:06

Im trying not to preach.

I think its common sence that if you drink alcohol your sences are impared therefore what you do will be impared.

I have three good reasons why not to drink but not one good reason to drink when looking after children and that why i chose not to.

It is my personal opioin to not drink alcohol when looking after children. Everyone else does not have to agree with me. Even the law doesn't.

You dont have to justify why you need to drink alcohol when careing for your children to me or anyone.

FanFuckingTastic Fri 11-Jan-13 02:15:28

I can't drive a car or operate heavy machinery, and I probably wouldn't wake up at night without a great deal of noise from my children because I am medicated for various illnesses. Probably worse that a couple of glasses relaxed parent and I still think I am a ruddy fantastic mother.

So whilst I applaud your willingness to go without for your child, you must remember that many don't need to or have to and do quite well in any case. I can tell you now that the shot of adrenaline one gets when their child is in need of medical help is generally more than enough to sober up any mildly influenced adult. I live off of adrenaline after my son had an operation and require care through the night, and not until he was well again did tiredness and fatigue overtake me. Most people know their limits.

AnAirOfHope Fri 11-Jan-13 07:27:49

Drinking alcohol is a choice medication is not. Im sure you would chose not to be ill and take meds where people chose to become drunk knowing the effects it will cause.

You would not drink at work or drink drive so why drink and lookafter young children? I think they are worth more than the baseline.

People think its ok because they want to do it.

FanFuckingTastic Fri 11-Jan-13 08:39:53

Most of the medication that I take has an element of choice to it, very little of it is necessary for me to live. Most of it gives me comfort, removes pain, nausea,anxiety. I could function without it and sacrifice my wellbeing and comfort for the kids. But I choose to be comfortable and to have some quality of life. Its not that different a choice.

AnAirOfHope Fri 11-Jan-13 09:18:41

I think that taking pain meds to enable you to be confortable so you can play with or do things with your children is better than not taking it and struggling to do what you could with taking them.

People drink alcohol just to relax when the kids are asleep is not posative or benefishal!

I also think the amount of alcohol that is consummed is important. One glass of wine with dinner fine i dont think it would affect a person too much but two bottles of wine on an empty tummy would make me feel unconfortable about the persons ability to look after a child.

The would have to be a limit but how and where it was set and enforced would be tricky.

As adults its your human right to do as you please as long as it hurts noone else. I dont want to row or preach and im sorry if i upset you.

I think there is not a law agenst it because if you were passed out and a child got hurt then it would be neglect not drunk in charge of a child.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

AnAirOfHope Fri 11-Jan-13 09:34:08

Beertrickspotter thats a very good post and i agree with what you have said.

AnAirOfHope Fri 11-Jan-13 09:42:10

I think i feel unconfortable with adults drinking round children the same way i feel unconfortable with adults smoking round children because there is a possibility to end badly for the child.

I understand its my issue and most people are fine with it.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

AnAirOfHope Fri 11-Jan-13 10:26:57

I got my MIL a bottle of wine for babysitting for us and the took it home to drink grin

Im not agenst drinking as long as there is a des and the person looking after the kids is sober or if the kids are staying somewhere else. I think its more about drinking responable.

I think it could be upsetting for young children to see an adult drunk.

AnAirOfHope Fri 11-Jan-13 10:29:05

*I give the bottle of wine when we got back not before we left her in charge!

DioneTheDiabolist Fri 11-Jan-13 10:59:17

Airofhope, drinking drinking does not mean being drunk. And smoking around children is not the same as drinking around children. If I smoke a fag those around me are exposed to second hand smoke. If I drink a glass or three of wine, there is no second hand alcohol entering the bodies of those I am with.

I don't need to drink to relax. Just as don't need to do yoga or soduku to relax. But I do all these things as I enjoy them and they do not impair my ability to look after DS.

AnAirOfHope Fri 11-Jan-13 11:05:50

I disagree. <shrug>

Live and let live brew

marcopront Fri 11-Jan-13 12:09:28

AnAirOfHope

I hope when you are ill, you arrange for someone else to take care of your children because your judgement might be impaired.

As a single parent by your rules I can never drink alcohol as I am always in charge of my child. Thanks

AnAirOfHope Fri 11-Jan-13 12:31:57

Marcopront you dont have to live by my rules.

Its not a bad thing to not drink alcohol.

If/when im a SP i would get a babysitter and have a drink. Yes it cost more but you have the choice to have a drink or not. Thats what i would chose. It is not essencal to drink alcohol its a choice.

If you are ill you cant help it but you chose to consume alcohol.

I don't think I've ever seen a thread go so off topic before.

Wallison Fri 11-Jan-13 18:52:36

I think it's because pretty much everyone is united against the OP, AKiss.

AnAir - you would hire a babysitter to come and sit in your living-room with you while you drink wine? Ooooookay.

Reaa Fri 11-Jan-13 22:19:45

I don't actually drink, DH does which is one of the reasons I don't as I like knowing if at any point I need to go Drs or A and E I can drive, but that's just me, my friend drinks and has always said she can always get a cab if needed........

Reaa Fri 11-Jan-13 22:19:54

I don't actually drink, DH does which is one of the reasons I don't as I like knowing if at any point I need to go Drs or A and E I can drive, but that's just me, my friend drinks and has always said she can always get a cab if needed........

LineRunner Sat 12-Jan-13 16:10:18

To be honest, in some circumstances (e.g. living in city or town) the quickest way of getting to most A&Es and Walk-Ins is a cab, because the carparking can be quite a long way away, in a dark place, and expensive. A cab is allowed to drop you (and poorly child of course) off at the main doors.

When I took my DD to the Walk-In last year the cab driver couldn't have been more helpful.

AnAirOfHope Sat 12-Jan-13 17:19:45

Do you need a car seat in a cab? I have never got a taxi with my children because i didnt want to carry the car seat with me round town or supermarket. I dont drive and always walk or go on the bus with children in pushchair.

Wallison Sat 12-Jan-13 21:16:43

No, you don't need a car seat in a cab. Some firms have them and will put one in if you ask for it, but it's not illegal not to use one or anything.

SoWhatIfImWorkingClass Sun 13-Jan-13 09:21:46

All this talk further up thread about if ex's new partner was a millionaire maintenance should remain the same. What about the following...

If the OP was a millionaire should maintenance go up?? I'm so looking forward to hearing of a situation like that, just so I can hear the double standards come flowing through smile

All hypothetical of course, but oh my, how different it would be.

AnAirOfHope Sun 13-Jan-13 09:49:21

No because the OP is not the parent of the child. Only the parents are responsable for their child financialy.

AmberLeaf Sun 13-Jan-13 10:08:37

The OP isn't the parent, her boyfriend is, so why would it be different?

SoWhatIfImWorkingClass Sun 13-Jan-13 10:14:11

So say I won the lottery now (all in my name) I'm not obliged to pay anything to my partner's ex? I find that hard to believe.

InNeatCognac Sun 13-Jan-13 10:28:12

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

AnAirOfHope Sun 13-Jan-13 10:42:09

No because the ex has nothing to do with your finances.

It works both ways if the exwife won the lotto she would not have to give any money to her xh or new gf but the xh would still have to pay child mainance because he is finacialy responsable for his child.

Snorbs Sun 13-Jan-13 10:48:26

Not under current CSA rules, no. I've got a vague recollection that CSAv1 rules did take at least some account of step-parent income among many other things. But it was so horribly complicated that it was damn-near unworkable.

That led to the simplification of CSAv2. Of course, the CSA can't even run that properly hence the upcoming CSAv3 where parents will be strongly encouraged to sort it out between themselves.

holidaysarenice Mon 14-Jan-13 06:44:46

Bloody hell you took a lot of stick on here. It may already have been said but try the online benefits calculator, with very little info you can work it out more or less. Remember maintenance doesn't count as income for benefit purposes.

oliandjoesmum Tue 15-Jan-13 09:29:37

I'm sorry if people disagree but I think it should. I don't get any benefits, including child benefit from this month, but if I was getting the same amount as my husband earns im maintenance I would get CTC and CB. Why would that be fair? I actually have a friend who gets £4200 a month in maintenance but then still gets CTC of nearly £1000 a month and over £200 in child benefit on top of that. Not an urban myth, absolutely true. Why is that fair, when my husband earns less than that but we get nothing from the state even though we also have 4 children. She isn't doing anything wrong, she is claiming what she is entitled to legally, but I can't be persuaded that not taking maintenance in to consideration in benefits calculations is fair,those who got nothing/ very little/ irregular maintenance would still get the benefits, but those that got perfectly reasonable amounts would get less benfits. It happens that way if you are a single mother working for her living, why should it be different with maintenance?

Snorbs Tue 15-Jan-13 10:00:46

They did used to include child maintenance in benefits calculations. This was part of CSAv1 I believe.

It was discovered that many payers of child maintenance were appallingly unreliable about paying. So the recipient of the maintenance would have to keep changing their benefits claims to keep track of the child maintenance as it came in in dribs and drabs.

It turned out that the administrative cost of constantly changing the benefit claims ended up costing a huge amount. In fact, it cost more more than the additional benefits that would need to be paid out by simply ignoring child maintenance in the first place.

Finally, while I don't doubt there are some instances such as your friend who receives thousands in reliable child maintenance, such arrangements are relatively rare. According to Gingerbread, the average CSA payment is £33.50 a week. Or £22.50 if you include the cases where there is an assessment of zero (such as when the NRP claims to have no income). Not many single parents are coining it in like your friend.

oliandjoesmum Tue 15-Jan-13 10:19:59

I know, I am sure 95% of people get very very little, and I'm sure the current system is this way to ensure fairness for the majority who get very little or irregular payments. May be a half way ground where you only have to declare maintenance payments over a certain threashold would be better, in the same way you only have to consider worrying about CB removal over 50,000. I do understand that no benefits system is ever 100% fair, and that there will always be anomalies.

Snorbs Tue 15-Jan-13 10:38:08

You miss my point. The current system is not about ensuring fairness. It's about balancing the cost of running a means-tested benefit system that tries to take account of unreliable maintenance payments versus the cost of potentially superfluous benefits being paid if they ignore maintenance entirely. It's simply cheaper for the government to do the latter than the former.

CheeseandPickledOnion Tue 15-Jan-13 16:00:51

Just to answer those who addressed me.

Her drinking has nothing to do with maintenance. But when she's constantly bleeting about how skint she is, I'd rather see her putting her money to better uses than go out on the piss. Yes, it's her choice, her money. But don't come crying to us.... I'm afraid any decent adult who is moaning about skintness will put basics before booze.

Fortunately DSS is (to our knowledge) at his GP's when the party happens. He arrives back at her house in the am to be picked up by DH. So he isn't present for all the drunken antics, but sees the aftermath.

Believe me, if we thought there was any danger we'd be in court.

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