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I am not but car insurance companies are being VU!

(44 Posts)
t0lk13n Sun 07-Oct-12 15:33:04

My 17 yr old is learning to drive and will sit his theory test v soon. I started to look at insurance prices. What an absolute joke and a rip off! How do people afford it. I will cost me more to insure him per month than I pay for the whole year for my insurance....I only have a 1.2 Hyundai! Insurance companies make a bomb!
I am lucky that both of us work but I am not sure that that price is affordable! I have heard horror stories but didn`t realise I would be one of them!

It's ridiculous. I think there are things you can do to lower it like additional driving courses. Have a look on money saving expert

mellen Sun 07-Oct-12 15:35:58

Its do do with the cost of paying out on the insurance claims. They wont offer insurance if it makes too much of a loss.

OldLadyKnowsNothing Sun 07-Oct-12 15:37:17

Have you heard of Pay as You Go insurance? There are restrictions on the time of day etc but can offer savings.

nocake Sun 07-Oct-12 15:48:09

I can assure you that insurance companies aren't "making a bomb" from car insurance. The reason it will cost a lot to insure your son is that the chance of him having an accident is very, very high and remember it isn't the cost of his car that matters. If he hits a Porsche... or a house his insurance company has to pay out.

phantomnamechanger Sun 07-Oct-12 15:49:53

Your son may be a model driver and extremely sensible, unfortunately statistics say he is a very high risk group. So the premiums are high. It is not about them ripping you off.

quoteunquote Sun 07-Oct-12 16:01:05

make sure she does pass plus as this will reduce insurance costs,it does for anyone who wants to reduce costs,

and then do IAM

Tuttutitlookslikerain Sun 07-Oct-12 16:05:00

If you are wanting to add him as a learner for a while, have a look at Collingwood Learner Driver's insurance. We added DS1 to DH's 1.4TDi Polo for £360 for 24 weeks. As soon as he passes the insurance will stop. You can do it for a shorter amount of time, but in all honesty it works out far cheaper to do it for the maximum 24 weeks.

I know what you mean about the cost though. We pay £226 a year for DH and I to drive the Polo, it costs that a month to add DS when he passes!

deleted203 Sun 07-Oct-12 16:06:18

Absolutely agree! I have Peugeot 106 which is group 1 insurance - and first quote I had to put my 18 yo DS (who had just passed test) on it was for £4,700. WTF???? It is currently £180 for myself. Look into getting a black box fitted which monitors his driving....we managed to get quote down to £1800 for that - but it's still damned expensive.

SugarPasteMonkey Sun 07-Oct-12 16:59:28

It's expensive for a reason. A young inexperienced driver is far more likely - above any other group - to have an accident causing serious injury or death, to either their passengers or the people in the other car.

The motor insurance market is not particularly profitable - many insurers make a loss on this side of the business.

sookiesookie Sun 07-Oct-12 17:02:27

Insurance works on statistics. Your ds is a high risk category.

imperialstateknickers Sun 07-Oct-12 17:06:18

A friend who has a recently passed 17 yr old son bought him an old landrover with no seats in the back, insurance was much lower as he could not carry and therefore damage more than one passenger.

goinnowhere Sun 07-Oct-12 17:09:19

It is expensive. Do they really need to learn yet?

TheHeirOfSlytherin Sun 07-Oct-12 17:09:47

Dh has been driving 5 years now and we still haven't managed to get the insurance below £1000 for the year. We live in an ok area, not great but not bad, have his mum as a named driver and he has no points or claims etc. I've pointed out his car is in insurance group 19 but apparently there is not one car in groups 1-18 that he would rather have. hmm

BikeRunSki Sun 07-Oct-12 17:26:15

The risk the insurance companies are taking is not about the value of a new driver's car, it is about the likelihood of them damaging high value property or injuring/ maiming / killing someone. Your car is the least of their worries.

SugarPasteMonkey Sun 07-Oct-12 17:28:29

One way to try and look at it is that it is expensive now but in terms of a life skill, the money spent on insurance now is an investment in accruing No Claims Discount and driving experience. You'll start to notice a difference in cost once they have a few years claim free driving under their belt.

Young Marmalade is a good scheme to try if you're looking for a car + insurance for a newly qualified young driver. Alternatively brokers like Adrian Flux have access to specialist schemes designed specifically for young drivers, so may be able to get you a better deal than the comparison websites and high street insurers.

t0lk13n Sun 07-Oct-12 17:49:25

I have been told that as I drive the car mainly and he will have it on odd days when i am not, he can`t have the box that limits him as it will limit me. I know he is a high risk driver, I am not that ignorant but I do wonder the extortionate prices as some quotes for certain cars are more than the worth of the car. A policeman told my husband that we are mugs who would pay it as so many youngsters drive without insurance as it costs less to pay the fines than the insurance. I would never do that as my conscience wouldn't let me. May just be the area we live in! Will probably have to pay up but I wonder how the insurance will go down and how can he build up no claims if he is not the first named driver. I have tried to put him as the first driver and me as second to see the cost of it but the two insurance companies wouldn`t let me, i.e. no quote available.
If he passes before Christmas it can be his present! and his 18th birthday present!

That Police Officer should be ashamed of himself. What if a young person hit another person and had to pay for their care for the rest of their life?

t0lk13n Sun 07-Oct-12 17:57:52

I know....I have a disabled son too and wouldn`t wish that on anyone so would never risk it myself nor let my son drive without insurance. Will just have to swallow the price and pay it when he passes. Must be pluses like him going to pick up disabled son or his nana or go for milk etc x

mellen Sun 07-Oct-12 18:01:15

" I do wonder the extortionate prices as some quotes for certain cars are more than the worth of the car."

Its not so much about the cost of the car, it is the cost of compensating people for injury.

hatesponge Sun 07-Oct-12 18:12:29

It's the cost of claims which is to blame for the high cost of premiums.

The average personal injury claim settles for around £5k. That's the average of course. Also it doesn't include the cost of repairs/hire which can be the same again, or more.

Young people unfortunately have more accidents, and the accidents they have are more serious/attract higher levels of compensation - often because they will have 3/4 people in the car with them.

CaliforniaLeaving Sun 07-Oct-12 19:08:20

What kind of discount do they get for passing the Pass Plus scheme? Anyone know.
My one Ds is 24 and his insurance was horrendous until last week when he bought himself a new car, smaller engine, he needs it to see clients out and about so no choice but to pay.
Other Ds (18) is taking lessons with an instructor in UK now, he was driving in US since 15.5 years with no claims and it doesn't count, so when he gets his UK license he'll have high ins. He needs his full license for his career choice too. Debating between Ambulance service or Police.

Tuttutitlookslikerain Sun 07-Oct-12 19:47:57

I don't know about discounts for pass plus, California, but we're going to getDS1 to do it. There are some insurance companies that let them build up a no claims, just by being a named driver. I think Direct Line is one of them.

DS1 was reluctant to learn at first, but I am disabled and DH is Forces so goes away , so I really need someone else who can do a bit of the running around. I am luck in a way, as I have the option of adding DS to my Motability car, so he can do errands for me. He wants to join the Army, so a full. Driving license will come in handy and it is easier to Learn now while he has the time, than when he has a full time job!

GreenShadow Sun 07-Oct-12 20:29:30

Pass Plus is a bit of a con (from the insurance point of view anyway).

DS1 did it and I think it was actually useful and worth doing, but didn't mean we could get a discount on insurance. You may get discounts if you are paying over the odds in the first place, but not from the cheap companies who specialise in young people's insurance.

CaliforniaLeaving Sun 07-Oct-12 22:03:11

GreenShadow Who are the cheap companies for young people insurance?
I emailed Ds the link to pass plus and told him to talk to the Driving instructor about it. He can already drive from learning here, he drove to High school for the last two years but needs practice driving on the other side of the road and we have no roundabouts here.

GreenShadow Mon 08-Oct-12 13:49:07

California We went with Elephant last time.
Think Aviva are good and Admiral.

The price comparison sites will bring up those best for young people if you feed in all your details.

SugarPasteMonkey Mon 08-Oct-12 19:26:04

Pass Plus is worthwhile for the additional driver training. However if you're only considering it from an insurance POV then don't bother, as the discount is negligible.

In terms of being a named driver, quite a few companies now will allow introductory NCD of up to 2 years, if a driver has been named and driving claim free for that period on someone else's insurance. So it's worth considering.

BTW, the policeman hasn't considered that as and when you are done for driving with no insurance - and the chances of being caught are high and increasing all the time due to developments in technology! - the cost of securing insurance with an IN10 conviction on your licence are pretty steep.

Put it this way, it's incredibly expensive if you are a newly passed 17 year old driver. The only way it gets worse is if you are a newly passed 17 year old driver with a no insurance (or drink or drugs) endorsement on your licence. Plus driving with no insurance almost always carries an automatic ban for at least 6 months. If you are within the 2 year probationary period from having passed your test, then 9/10 times you won't just get your licence back - you'll have to sit another driving test instead.

deleted203 Mon 08-Oct-12 19:32:25

But seriously, how does any young driver afford the kinds of premiums insurance companies want? When I passed my test at 17 my dad added me to their insurance and then I bought my first car at 19 because I needed it for work. I know I'm going back many, many years but my insurance was £250 and I earned £82 a week...so roughly 3 weeks wages for a year's insurance. My son at 18 has just got a job 100 miles away from home and does actually need transport to get to work. He is bringing home about £800 a month and has to pay rent/bills/food on that. How the hell is he supposed to manage insurance for car on top?

CMOTDibbler Mon 08-Oct-12 19:37:54

Insurers pay out in claims as much as they take in premiums for under 21's. Alas, young drivers have high speed accidents with other young people in the car, and the cost for them suffering a permanent injury is then based on damage over the next 50 or more years.

frantic51 Tue 09-Oct-12 20:54:49

I managed to get my DS onto my insurance quite reasonably when he passed his test last February. DD1 was already a named driver on the policy and both she and her brother were included as learner drivers at no additional cost until they passed their tests. Having said that, I have deliberately down graded to a 1.1 litre Suzuki Alto until all three DCs have passed their tests and had a couple of years experience. (Trying to persuade DD2, just turned 17 to get her licence sorted pdq, but she is nervous of driving) I am with Quinn.

littlemisssarcastic Wed 10-Oct-12 11:29:18

When DS (21) passed his test, earlier this year, the only way he could get insurance that he could afford was to go fully comprehensive, with myself as additional driver and he has had to have the black box fitted to his car.
He also has to adhere to certain restrictions.

His insurance is close to the 3K mark!! shock

I know many young people who have given up taking lessons altogether, or who pass their test, then can't afford to drive. sad
Where I am, only about a quarter of young people I know of take driving lessons and then go on to actually drive a car after passing their test, and that number is falling every year.

I'm not sure how this bodes for the future.

borninastorm Wed 10-Oct-12 11:36:12

I found co-op young drives with the box the cheapest for my ds and it made it cheaper when he put me, my dh and his grandad on the policy as named drivers. Also having a high voluntary excess helps lower the premium.

Whatever insurance you take out make sure you take out legal cover and/uninsured loss cover (this isn't expensive), but it covers the cost of your excess if an accident isn't your fault. We learned this to our detriment and thus had to launch a personal injury claim to get the excess back.

Good luck with insurance for young drivers it's s minefield that I like to call the great insurance swindle grin

SugarPasteMonkey Wed 10-Oct-12 19:12:52

I know it's maybe a throwaway comment, but I do get cross when people refer to it as an insurance swindle. Honestly, insurers make a loss on this sector of the market. Even if they wrote the premiums to 100% - i.e. they only charged what they paid out and took no profit at all - then young drivers premiums would be much higher than they are now!

To put this into context, a village near where I grew up suffered a horrible tragedy a few years ago. A young lad driving with two teenage girls as his passengers. He misjudged traffic when trying to overtake - as young drivers often do due to inexperience - and this with a combination of going too fast meant that he hit another car head on.

The family in the other car - Mum, Dad and their son were all killed. All locals with strong links to the community. The two girls in the young lad's car were trapped and horrifically the car caught fire and they couldn't be rescued in time. The only survivor from the whole mess was the young lad responsible for it all.

Young drivers are far more likely to crash. They are far more likely to be driving at night when it's more difficult to see and when inexperience can be even more costly. They are likely to be carrying passengers, who if injured will need compensation to help care for them for the rest of their lives. They are likely to be involved in collisions with other vehicles, with the associated cost of injuries to the other driver and passengers.

On the face of it £2-3,000 is alot of money. But ask the families of the young girls who burned to death in the back of that car if they think £2K is enough for an inexperienced driver to get behind a tonne and a half of metal going at 70 mph or more.

There are lots of shit drivers of all ages out there. But insurance operates on statistics and statistically young drivers are the most dangerous category, not only for themselves but for other people as well.

Sorry, this has ended up being a bit of a rant blush I'm not excusing the insurance industry completely - God knows it's not perfect by a bloody long stretch! It is shit for the teens who are responsible and drive carefully and want to build up a safe driving record. But sadly they are the exception rather than the rule. That's why the black box technology is a good idea - helping to reward responsible drivers.

littlemisssarcastic Wed 10-Oct-12 22:29:39

SugarPasteMonkey

"That's why the black box technology is a good idea - helping to reward responsible drivers. "

When the black box is fitted, the insurance premium tends to be lower, before the driver has even got into the car and driven it yet. After 3 months, if the driver has been a good driver, they continue to pay the same premiums, whereas if they have driven badly, they can have a further 10% added to their premium. After a further 3 months, the good driver still pays the same amount, while the bad driver can have another 10% increase on his premium, and same again after 9 months.

This means that if by having the black box fitted, your premium is reduced from £4500 to £3000 per year, and you pay installments monthly over 10 months of £300 a month...a bad driver will pay £300 a month for 3 months, then £330 a month for 3 months, then £363 for 3 months and finally £399.30 per month for the remaining 3 months...hence the year has cost the bad driver just over £4k.

This is a punitive measure against bad drivers, not a reward for good driving, and imo, reward tends to encourage better driving more than the fear of punishment.

elvis100 Thu 11-Oct-12 07:12:34

Car insurance at his age can be very expensive, but there are a few things you can do to save money. For instance, listing him as a driver on your policy. Now that might increase your rates, but it will still be a lot cheaper than getting him individual insurance. Now for affordable car insurance, I’d advise you to shop around for insurance rates, ask companies about the discounts they offer young drivers and then settle on one. Discounts are offered for being a good student, installing security and anti-theft devices to your car and enrolling in a defensive driver’s class. Look into it.

littlemisssarcastic Thu 11-Oct-12 09:40:10

That's a good idea about putting a young new driver on my policy as an additional driver, but for me, I don't really want DS driving my car around, especially not just yet, plus if I put him on my insurance, wouldn't it be me who is liable for the extra premium?

mollymole Thu 11-Oct-12 09:47:39

'I don't really want DS driving my car around, especially not just yet'

Why ?? Don't you think he is safe to drive it ? Perhaps this is what the insurance companies think too.

littlemisssarcastic Thu 11-Oct-12 10:03:58

Same reason as I don't want my mother (who's been driving over 25 years) or my sister (who's been driving 23 years) driving my car. confused

It's my car and I don't want to share. Is that wrong?

littlemisssarcastic Thu 11-Oct-12 10:09:38

FWIW I think DS is a good driver, but he wouldn't share his car with me either.

SugarPasteMonkey Thu 11-Oct-12 19:17:06

But the good driver is reaping the reward of the lower premium to start with. The bad driver will end up paying the kind of premium that they would have done without the black box involved.

It's been around for a few years but I think this will start to increase in popularity and use when the EU gender directive comes in.

financialwizard Fri 12-Oct-12 08:21:12

I am 35. My husband is forces and we have just moved back to the UK from overseas. We have both been driving about 18 years. He has had points and I have had an accident in the last 2 years. We bought a Volvo s60. I got quotes that varied between £1,200 with a 3k excess to £600 with a £250 excess. To me it makes NO sense whatsoever.

kekouan Fri 12-Oct-12 08:33:28

Agree with whoever said it was cheaper when they added more people to the insurance. My insurance was expensive, but went down when I added experienced drivers as named drivers on my insurance (not a swizz, they did drive my car very occasionally) and at one point I had 5 extra drivers on, and it lowered the cost! grin

Might be worth looking in to?

SugarPasteMonkey Fri 12-Oct-12 18:51:14

Financialwizard - in those cases, you'll find that the companies that have quoted the higher premiums have done so because they don't particularly want to cover you, so they 'quote themselves out' so to speak.

If they have a book of business where their data tells them that they already insure lots of people in your area, or that their claims experience for 35 year olds with accidents isn't great at the moment, then they'll up the premium for new customers who fit this risk category. They'll be discounting premiums in another risk category to attract business in that sector, so that they have a wide variety of risk and a balanced book IYSWIM? I know it sounds a bit daft but there is a reason for it!

That's why if you aren't a standard risk - middle aged, clean licence with a chunk of no claims bonus and a fairly ordinary car - it can sometimes be more worthwhile to look for a specialist insurer or broker, as they won't be tied into the balancing the books act that lots of the ordinary high street outfits are.

SugarPasteMonkey Fri 12-Oct-12 18:53:11

Meant to add - YY to adding drivers on who are experienced and have clean licences and driving history. It's perfectly legitimate and can make a big difference to premium. It's normally cheaper to pick cover for 'Insured & Spouse' than it is to pick 'Insured only' - unless your other half has claims or convictions (or is a young driver!).

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