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DH's ex went bankrupt in 2008, had a letter.

(56 Posts)
Fluffycloudland77 Sun 11-Nov-12 17:18:20

It says;

"You are scheduled as a creditor in this matter but you have not yet submitted a formal calim by completing proof of debt. If you do not submit your proof by 09.01.13 you will be excluded from the first and final dividend I am preparing to make".

To assist you in determining whether or not to submit a proof of debt, on present information there are estimated liabilities of £51,000 and the estimated amount available for distribution is £1200. I estimate that the rate of first and final divident will be 0.02p in the £.

If you do not submit a proof by 09.01.13 and there remains a surplus after the claims of all provved creditors have been satisfed, I will pay statutory interest to the proved crditors. Should there still be a surplus after the payment of interst the remaining funds will be returned to XXX."

We have an aggreement with her and she has been paying monthly for years, does this letter mean she is no longer obligated to pay us? she went bankrupt after we took her to small claims court and had a CCJ against her. She has something of DH's so we said this money is a condtional sale and as we had all the paperwork she signed at the time the insolvancy service said either pay him or give him the item back. She wrote to us and said she would carry on paying.

What do we do? I have all the relevant paperwork from county court etc.

Our main worry is that her bankruptcy is about to end and she will not be obligated to pay us and DH will lose out then.

Leithlurker Wed 14-Nov-12 09:14:53

Normaly getting a car on HP (or any other type of goods) will not result in the supplier of the thing wanting it back. So I agree with your thought process caja.

However this is a diffrent kettle of fish, and to answer your question fluffy, you would break the contract by informing the ex that you no longer want her to have the thing and that she should return it and stop making payments, in other words you would reclaim what is still your DH's property. This is a diversion though and fluffy I have many questiones about cat care.

Lougle Tue 13-Nov-12 11:33:07

Why won't you tell us what the item is? It's so abstract it's impossible to help.

keli5325 Tue 13-Nov-12 11:16:56

The creditors have nothing to do the administation of the bankrupts estate, it is the job of the official receiver or the Trustee in bankruptcy.

If the ex has been allowed to retain the item it has been excluded from the bankrupt estate probably because she could not prove it was hers and therefore not her asset in her bankruptcy.

The OR would not allow an "informal HP agreement" in the exs expenditure as ths could be classed as preferring a creditor, especially as the OP is classed as a creditor as she has had a claim form to prove the debt.

What item are we talking about, this may help with the advice?

whether you agree with the official receiver or not is irrelvant, you either make a claim or initiate proceedings for recovery of the item.

You are getting some very confusing and inaccurate advice on here

Journey Tue 13-Nov-12 10:53:39

If small claims aren't interested then you need to include your item with the bankruptcy people. It will be included as one of her expenses and will will be listed along side her other creditors. The creditors will then decide if they agree with the bankruptcy agreement and payments. The biggest creditors will get the final say. As someone said earlier you will probably only get £20.

Your item (whatever it is) could be viewed as an asset. If it is sold the cash would be put in the pot to be distributed fairly to all the creditors. Cars bought on loans for instance don't automatically go back to the sellers. The car just becomes a source of money if it is sold to pay back ALL the creditors in a 'fair' distribution.

Whether you like it or not what your DH ex spent the money on is irrelevant.

I think you should accept the money is gone even although it is annoying and unfair. She is bankrupt after all so technically she has no money to pay you.

Fluffycloudland77 Tue 13-Nov-12 09:37:51

My head hurts.

I'm no good at this stuff. Ask me one on saving money or meal planning or cat care.

CajaDeLaMemoria Tue 13-Nov-12 09:28:51

I'm not sure that that is the case, though.

My legal training is thin on the ground (2nd year) so I could very well be wrong - but I'd love to learn why if I am!

If you get a car get a Ford on hire purchase (for example), pay for 2 years and then stop, Ford can retrieve the car. You are not entitled to the money back - it's classed as rent for the period that you had the car, and covers the difference between what Ford could originally have sold the car at, and what they can now sell the car at.

So in this case, the ex had the option of handing the asset back and not being contract to any further payments, or carrying on paying to own the item at the end. So if she stops paying, why would DH have to pay back the money? If it's an informal hire purchase, wouldn't the money go towards the hire - because she hasn't yet paid enough to buy the item.

Apologies if I've got this all wrong - it's early and I've got the flu - but I'm trying!

Fluffycloudland77 Tue 13-Nov-12 09:23:12

How would we break the contract?

Leithlurker Tue 13-Nov-12 08:57:52

That was my thought to helen, as I read it this is an informal higher purchase. So at the end of the term the item becomes hers. If the contract is broken by Fluffy's DH then she (the ex) will be entitled to recompense. May not be the full amount she has paid but it sounds like she would flippin well seek court action to recover her money.

RedHelenB Tue 13-Nov-12 07:40:25

I'm confused over how her ex can claim from the bankruptcy estate if she has been paying for the item all along. have you got 3000 pounds to pay her for the item if she does stop paying & you want it back?

Fluffycloudland77 Mon 12-Nov-12 20:57:49

I know, I literally cant think clearly about it and research it this time.

Lougle Mon 12-Nov-12 20:55:55

Well that clarifies it then. Your DH's ex had the choice to either continue to pay the money, or allow you to reclaim the item. You can't do both. So, if she doesn't continue to pay you the money, then you can have the item back. You need some proper advice, I think.

Fluffycloudland77 Mon 12-Nov-12 16:15:11

Well I've found the letter off the insolv people saying they are not going to contest the issue and that if she doesnt want to carry on with the conditional sale we can have the item back.

It's all very odd isnt it?

keli5325 Mon 12-Nov-12 15:12:34

As she has been making payments and doesnt really need to this leads me to believe that she doesnt understand that the debt has been written off in the bankrutcy.

Best case scenario is that she continues to make payments to you.

Fluffycloudland77 Mon 12-Nov-12 15:07:55

DH has to ring them.

keli5325 Mon 12-Nov-12 15:02:50

If she went bankrupt is 2008, she may have been discharged in 2009 but any IPA would run for 3years and any assets realised within 3yrs.

Have you checked her on the insolvency register?? www.insolvencydirect.bis.gov.uk/bankruptcy/bankruptcysearch.htm

If they are due to distribute dividends the bankruptcy estate is concluded once all claims are recieved and paid.

The creditors will have written off the accounts and probably really wouldnt be able to do anything about a £4000 asset. Given that you said the asset was excluded from the bankruptcy on the grounds that it wasnt hers, the OR/Trustee probably wouldnt be worried about this either.

Have you spoken to the OR about this asset?

Fluffycloudland77 Mon 12-Nov-12 14:53:28

Yes, total debts of £51,000. DH isnt owed £51,000.

If the BR runs until next year then she may well pay until then.

And I may well write to the cc she owes money to and tell them she has a £4000 asset, two months before it all expires.

But I probably wont as these things come back on you, unless you are teflon tina.

keli5325 Mon 12-Nov-12 14:43:13

Regardless of if you submit a claim or not, once the bankruptcy is complete and the dividends distributed your debt will be written off in the bankruptcy and she can stop making payments to you

keli5325 Mon 12-Nov-12 14:39:23

I read it as total debts of £51k?? not £51k owed to the OP?

Fluffycloudland77 Mon 12-Nov-12 13:13:23

I dont know how she got that much credit with no mortgage and a £175 a week wage.

Lougle Mon 12-Nov-12 13:09:28

keli5325 the claim will pay out £1200 in total, against liabilities of £51,000.

That means that if Fluffycloudland77 puts in a proof of debt of £1000 and asks for payment, she is likely to receive a total of £20.

Fluffycloudland77 Mon 12-Nov-12 13:05:11

We will, I just need to know when she is stopping paying, if she is able to stop paying and if it's above board.

Although anything above board will be a novelty to her.

keli5325 Mon 12-Nov-12 12:55:31

If you say she owes another £1000 and the claim will pay out £1200, why not just submit the claim and get your dividend cheque and put it behind you?

Fluffycloudland77 Mon 12-Nov-12 12:35:04

It says it's a first and final dividend.

IPA isnt on the paperwork anywhere.

Lougle Mon 12-Nov-12 10:14:26

I wonder if you're getting confused. If she declared bankruptcy in 2008, then she was discharged at the latest, in 2009. There may be an Income Payment Agreement (IPA), which runs for 3 years, but that is independent of her bankruptcy status.

Fluffycloudland77 Mon 12-Nov-12 08:30:20

IPA??

I will go on MSE later.

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