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welfare of unborn baby- can any solicitor/law MNers advise?

(90 Posts)
honey86 Fri 28-Jun-13 18:59:09

its a long story but heres my situation...

im a mum of 3 kids, whos father died 4 years ago... he was a decent bloke and even when our relationship was on the rocks, access to the kids was easy and positive. they are all happy and settled with me at home, well provided for.

last year i started a relationship with my now ex. (hes divorced with his ex wife who wont allow access over verbal abuse)
it started great but over 6 months his behaviour got really erratic. he dumped me twice (excuse: he saw his dd in town, felt low and hid in his flat for a week on both occasions).
both times we got back together once he 'pulled himself together'. its been rocky since as i got sick of picking up the pieces for his mental health problems. but it was bearable and i stuck with him in the hope that hell change. i fell preg. since i got preg, he changed for the worse, he got controlling, started the mental abuse n mind games, telling me im not looking after the kids right etc. everytime i mentioned ending it, he threatened me with court, saying hell get custody of the baby.

about 6 weeks ago, we had a row cos i didnt ring him before i went to sleep. he turned up at my house wanting to row further. i told him no as im not rowing in front of my 4yo daughter ( who was in the car waiting to go to her aunts). i said no and turned on my engine to leave. he said 'so your driving away from me now then' i said 'well yeah i am actually'.
to which he said 'ok, see u in court and look forward to having social services on your back'
at that point i snapped and finally said its over, as im not having my bereaved kids used as weapons amongst other things.

since then, he :

- put in malicious allegations to social services about me and my family, after i refused to get back with him (i kept the texts in which he admits he was wrong for that n that he did it cos i drove away). social services accepted it was malicious and took no further action.

-spread hate about me and my family to others and online, and has been warned to stop harrassing me by my solicitor. police were called on 2 occasions.

-threatened to have my baby taken from me at birth, and bragged that when he goes to court to get pr, he can refuse to give me the child back after contact as long as he can provide for him, and theres nothing i can do to stop him.

-has said he planned to run abroad with his dd when he gets contact (he hasnt seen her for 2yrs).

-hasnt bothered to sort his issues out, just continued to slag me off. hes still trying to wind me up saying baby will support x team when he gets custody, his mate posting that hes going to help him get custody.

-his demands are unreasonable. no other males are to have contact with, or ever discipline his child, including family and even if they are naughty in their care. the child must go to a different school in a different area to my 3. he wants overnights with the baby from birth. the list goes on.

-i have worries about the babys welfare. hes not emotionally stable at once and cant think straight when hes upset. hes in alot of debt but spanks his wages up the wall then relies on others to bail him out. his personal hygiene has become poor and he smells awful. i strongly feel that he would not hand the child back after contact or even run off with him. i think his anger, possessiveness and depression will cause so many problems and worry itll ruin my baby emotionally.

hes already tried to have my kids lives disrupted by child protection for revenge already and its not fair on any of them to be brought up around that. i just want my baby to have a good start with no bullshit a positive atmosphere. i dont intend to put him on the bc or be around cos i just think theres too much risk to my kids (all 4), in the way of welfare, mentally and by the threat of abduction.

ive been told by alot of ppl (mostly dads and pro-dads rights people) that he can 'easily' get pr and i should prepare for him to get contact too. so i feel im being trapped into handing my baby to him.
i honestly think he will fully abuse his 'rights' and use his pr to control me.

my main question is: if hes serious and applied to court for pr and contact:

- will i be given the chance to contest it, or will my reasons at least be taken into account before handing him pr?

- what will happen once he submits his court order forms?

-will cafcass definately get involved?

-if he still gets unsupervised contact, is there anything i can do to prevent him abducting, refusing to hand him back after contact or trying parental alienation? to protect myself and my baby from his games?

- if he applies for a residence order, how likely is it that he'll be granted it?

sorry for such a long post, but im so distracted by this and its stressing me out. i feel like i just cant relax and enjoy my pregnancy for the worry of what hell do, what he has up his sleeve when i give birth.sad im 22 weeks, social services, homestart, police and the midwives/hv are aware of it.
i need someone who knows the real facts and deals with it, to advise and not anyone whos just going to force more fathers rights biased stuff down my throat.

thanks x

NatashaBee Fri 28-Jun-13 19:07:13

He sounds terrible. I think you're right not to put him on the birth certificate - he can apply to be added to it anyway but it's one more hoop for him to jump through. I don't think you have anything to worry about with regards to him getting custody either. Just keep a record or diary of everything he says/does - store all texts and emails.

Has he actually pursued access to his other kids after his ex-wife refused to let him see them? If not, then you never know... all the crap he is spurting might just be for show and he may not be that interested in the baby anyway.

I would also suggest contacting Women's Aid, and making your midwife/health visitor aware of the situation.

Helpyourself Fri 28-Jun-13 19:09:28

I'm no expert but sad and flowers
I don't think he'll follow through. Malicious allegations to SS take a lot less effort than actually following through with a solicitor and paying and he sounds flaky.
You'll get more advice soon...

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

honey86 Fri 28-Jun-13 19:20:11

i have been in contact with womens aid already, before we split (they advised me to end the relationship).

hes said constantly that hes taking his ex to court for contact and poss custody, hes sent forms off a couple times but they were apparently sent back for some reason (im assuming he didnt fill them out right, or wrong payment method) but whenever he got the money back he spanked it on takeaways, fags and nights out and had to re-save the money. im not sure if hes sent them since or not.

atm hes saying hes 'positive' hell 'win' and 'celebrating' with nights out.

im trying so hard to ignore him but hes already stooped low enough to use my poor kids as it is, so i think he'll resort to anything to get the 'upper hand' x

honey86 Fri 28-Jun-13 19:26:17

his ex wife did inbox him saying if hes serious about seeing dd then shell work with him as long as theres no more disruptions as shes 'doing well for herself'. he simply replied to her saying 'see u in court'.

he since told me its so that if she stops contact again for whatever reason, he can get her arrested or even get custody. and he doesnt want to have to do anything 'on her terms'.

AS he has already "involved" Social Services - do you have a Social Worker with whom you could discuss your concerns. It might be worth it so they have it on record that he has said he will do things like abscond with DD. Also try posting this on relationships too as many MNers there may have advice and experience.

spiritedaway Fri 28-Jun-13 19:27:18

don't put him on the birth certificate and apply for a residence order when he does apply for PR. You can site many reasons including risk of abduction. If Carcass do get involved try not to mud sling even though you have cause. He has undermined himself already through making malicious allegations.

fuckwittery Fri 28-Jun-13 19:30:16

If he says any of these lovely things in writing (text, facebook), take screen shots and save them all for any court proceedings he does issue. Those messages and he won't go down very well.


Change your surname.

Job done.

Not to be flippant, that is actually what I would do.

honey86 Fri 28-Jun-13 19:33:11

nah social services are purely concerned with the children, they got my side of the story, did their checks with the health visitor and schools, and took no further action, closed the case. the only thing wrong with my kids is with my dd,4, who has a genetic kidney and ureter defect, which is being monitored and treated by gp and addenbrookes xx

SlimePrincess Fri 28-Jun-13 19:34:28

I didn't want to read and run and I'm certainly no expert but I think he's all mouth and no trousers. The fact that he hasn't seen his daughter for 2 years speaks volumes, why no legal battle for custody of her ?
Hang in there flowers

PatriciaHolm Fri 28-Jun-13 19:35:18

Minute everything he says, every conversation, so you have a detailed and dated record. Keep every text and email, print out Facebook conversations. If it really comes to it, make sure you have every proof you can of what he's been saying. Not putting him on the birth certificate will delay things as he'll have to go to court to get it, which might just be enough to put him off.

He's a knob. Talk to SS/WA about getting restraining orders served on him to keep him away from you and DC and allow supervised contact only with baby when it's born.
He will not get custody. ANd right now, you can refuse any contact with him, as the baby isn't born and therefore he has no rights at all.

SlimePrincess Fri 28-Jun-13 19:38:13

I agree with Patricia. Phoning social services is easy compared to a long court case.

honey86 Fri 28-Jun-13 19:41:39

ive got a diary i started 2 weeks before we split, full of my concerns thoughts and intentions regarding him and baby, and reasons for them. kept his messages since the split including the ones admitting the real reasons for the malicious ss calls plus texts from when he waited outside my house one day after the split hasselling me to get back with him.
homestart has been logging incidents and threats too and is supporting me.
2 crime numbers from both police reports. screen shots of him on facebook calling me and my family names and saying we hurt the kids etc.

honey86 Fri 28-Jun-13 19:50:06

oh, and a copy of the solicitors warning to him.

if it was just me, i defo would consider moving away /name changes etc but my boys have only just settled after moving after the death of their dad (dd wasnt born yet when he died so she doesnt know any different) and my eldest is severely autistic and struggles with change. so its just not in their best interest to move schools, home etc. xx

honey86 Fri 28-Jun-13 19:54:46

hes refused to use contact centres too and child maintenance. he said he doesnt see why he has to pay to see his kids.

ProphetOfDoom Fri 28-Jun-13 19:56:14

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

JaquelineHyde Fri 28-Jun-13 20:01:18

Inform him that you are stopping all verbal communication because of his behaviour.

Anything he has to say can be said via email, text, facebook or even a letter. Keep copies of everything and a diary of incidents, log any attempt he makes to verbally communicate with you after your request. If you respond to him keep copies of that as well.

He can apply for PR once the baby is born but from what you have said I doubt he will bother.

If he does get PR (which I doubt) then you should immediately apply for a residence order and whilst this is going through refuse all contact, in fact I would refuse all contact full stop and force him to take you to court for contact because until he does that he cannot force you to do anything.

And don't take any notice of fathers' rights groups. They are full of abusive dickheads who are forbidden to see their DC for good reason. It sounds like you have tons of evidence to keep this man a good distance away, and if he refuses to 'jump through hoops' then he won't get anywhere with court action. He's probably too lazy, selfish, obnoxious and stupid to even bother, anyway, so can be safely ignored.

spiritedaway Fri 28-Jun-13 20:15:08

I agree with SolidGold

honey86 Fri 28-Jun-13 20:53:31

oh trust me i havent taken this lightly.

ive looked at pros and cons, such as having a dad figure etc
looked at it from so many angles from mine, his, babys, and my kids points of views.... ive googled the hell out of google.... and asked so many people.
but i keep coming to the same conclusion: that this baby is miles better off without his input.
i truly believe he will destroy him mentally. i can see his dd is better off now hes not around too.

im terrified at the prospect of court. never been to court in my life. he has twice for rent arrears and threats of eviction, so he knows kinda what to expect. i havent a clue confusedx

Honey, it really won't be too bad in court. By the sound of it there is an absolute shedload of evidence that this man is a raving arsehole: use all the support and back up you can get in terms of SS, Women's Aid etc to build a big legal barrier against him and he will fuck off. Right now, as the baby is not yet born, you cannot be made to engage with him in any way: there is no legal right for a man to contact or control in any way a woman who is pregnant with a child he provided the sperm for. But like others have said, get all the restraining orders in place ASAP and remember that the law is concerned with the right of a child to have a relationship with his/her father, not the rights of an abusive man.

il0vepudding Sun 30-Jun-13 23:11:10

He has made malicious calls to social services and this will be taken into account.

I suggest using a recording device next time you talk to him so that you have concrete evidence to play back of him being nasty and verbally abusive. Although I doubt you will need it, he sounds like a lot cause and I'm sure anyone with a bit of sense can see that. I would try and get a restraining order. Let them know how nasty he really is. He also does not see his ex partner's children and probably for the same reasons, so that will play against him as well.

I have had dealings with social services and I must say they don't always do their job properly and play fair, but it sounds like you have some fair ones in your area willing to see sense.

A lot of these pro-dad/MRA people are just as nasty as he is. They care more about the wants of the Father than they do about the children a lot of the time. I wouldn't listen to them, they're a bitter bunch and many probably don't see their kids for valid reasons. Especially the ones who say this even after you have explained what the Father of your baby is like.

honey86 Mon 01-Jul-13 22:50:32

ive been tempted to do the recording thing, but isnt that entrapment? dont wanna give him ammunition against me.
what worries me too is that hes sooooo unbelievably good at playing the hurt puppy act, crying out how goddamn hurt he is that yet another woman is 'screwing him over, taking his kid away' and that he 'dont understand why this keeps happening' to him. thats why i get worried about the custody and abduction threats, cos he seems to be able to worm his way in and out of everything with ease.

im worried about what grief he could cause if he gets his hands on pr, and just how much disruption he'll dig up for my poor kids for the sake of revenge. i just want a simple conflict-free life for my kids. (my 3 have already been through so much since losing their dad.) i dont think my ex has the capacity to grant them that.sad

MojitoMagnet Mon 01-Jul-13 23:02:34

I've only been able to skim read the thread as I must stop MNing but in case no-one has said this yet:

If when your baby is born you breastfeed, the courts absolutely will not ever in a hundred years impose any contact order for a breastfed baby to be away from its mum overnight. the dad will still be allowed contact, but only for short periods between feeds i.e. no more than an hour or two at a time.

The thing about abusive men is that they are full of bullshit. Never mind what he says. It's bullshit. The courts will put him firmly in his place. You've already had SS and police involvement so there is a clear record of this man being a harmful, troublesome individual. Cut contact entirely, get non-mol orders in place now and let him try to take you to court after your baby is born. By the sound of it he won't bother and no one else has any legal power to make you see him or let him see the baby.

Poppylovescheese Wed 03-Jul-13 06:56:36

I agree with Eleanor

honey86 Wed 03-Jul-13 12:41:46

just had my social worker ring me and wants to visit next week.... im worried in case hes been spurting more nasty allegations about me.
i think hes just going to play dirty now tbh sad

SunshineBossaNova Wed 03-Jul-13 12:54:26

No advice but flowers. Try not to worry about the social worker, they know what your ex is like and they might just be popping in to see that you're okay. x

BrianTheMole Wed 03-Jul-13 13:04:06

Well, you can always inform him that all phone calls are being recorded, as advised by your legal team mumsnet everytime he rings!!
I would keep a record of every communication you have with him. He sounds like a flight risk, I would insist that all contact is supervised through a contact centre. Ssd should advise.

BrianTheMole Wed 03-Jul-13 13:05:06

Dont worry about the social worker, just be honest and reasonable with them and get their advice about where to go next.

givemeaboost Wed 03-Jul-13 13:18:49

Has he got cash? ie several thousand? if so I wouldn't worry too much about him getting pr/custordy as legal aid is no longer avaible for those typoes of cases, so he would have to pay his way through the courts to try and legaly get the child of you. I would investigate the option of a restraining order to keep him away and If possible as others have said look at moving house to another area.

honey86 Thu 04-Jul-13 10:57:59

would it be fair to make a final decision based on the advice of this social worker? my gut instinct is telling me to keep him away til the courts decide what to do and ive got something in place to protect my baby. i feel under so much pressure from others, who say its 'not fair' on and 'damaging' to the child to have just one parent (i get offended by this as dd's dad died and despite this, shes a happy confident girl). they honestly seem to think im enjoying this, im really not. its stressing me out cos the clock is ticking and im trying to prepare for the birth of this baby x

fubbsy Thu 04-Jul-13 11:11:27

You don't need to make any final decision now, or any decision at all, the baby has not even been born yet. See what the social worker has to say and then mull it over.

fubbsy Thu 04-Jul-13 11:13:38

I agree that keeping him away until you have something in place to protect your baby sounds like a good plan.

Honey, in all likelihood the SW is coming to offer you help in keeping this man away from you. As to 'friends' etc telling you bullshit about it being'unfair' to keep him away, just keep saying to them 'Better no father than a shit father and he's a shit, so we are keeping him out of our lives.'

The way to deal with abusive men like this is to set up hoops for them to jump through, which can be done (particularly when there is already evidence of abusive behaviour) and if he 'won't jump through hoops' then he won't see his child - or you. Courts take a dim view of people who are non-compliant when they already have a bad track record - and a decent man who wanted to see his DC would obey to the letter, be polite and reasonable and demonstrate longterm good behaviour.

honey86 Fri 12-Jul-13 22:59:11

social worker didnt turn up cos she had an emergency... but she said on the phone she'll ring me monday as its not urgent.

got a question. would giving the baby fw ex's surname would give him any advantage in court? only i told some of my family about it and they seem gobsmacked that i chose it, saying they 'thought i hate him'.
i do after the trouble hes caused and though ill contest pr and contact until some kind of protection is in place, its not the babys fault.

even if he stays away, my reason for it is: the baby will know his roots, who his dad is. as much as im angry still i dont feel im right to deny my baby that.
plus my surname is the same as my kids, who have their dads surname. it wouldnt feel right to name a child after a man who isnt his dad.

but the mixed reactions has confused me and i dont know whats best to do sad

honey86 Sat 13-Jul-13 12:10:27


honey86 Sun 14-Jul-13 22:35:47


Why not give baby your original surname.

Collaborate Mon 15-Jul-13 09:23:04

Just on the point of what to do immediately after birth.

You will be the only person with parental responsibility. He cannot see the baby without your consent or court order. You should register the birth on your own, and you get to choose the name.

He may or may not get PR later if he applies (chances are he will - it's very rare for PR to be refused) but in the immediate aftermath of the birth you'll need some breathing space.

If he applies for contact and/or PR then get some legal advice at that stage, but write down now what all your concerns are so that when you involve a solicitor later down the line you can give them all relevant information from the start.

If on income grounds you may qualify for legal aid, have a look at this, which contains a list of all the situations (and evidence) in which you could still qualify.

honey86 Mon 15-Jul-13 09:44:02

if he got pr and contact in the end, can i request the court put in protection to stophim from refusing to hand my baby back? would a prohibited steps order do that or would i have to get a residence order? hes the type who would just take a child without permission just to be nasty to his ex x

You can insist on supervised contact only ie in a contact centre. Because there is plenty of evidence of this man's abusive behaviour, you can make it a real obstacle course for him to have any contact at all, and if he continues to be troublesome a court may agree that he is to have no contact with either you or the child. Remember that at present you can refuse any kind of contact with this man and use the law to force him to leave you alone. He may well give up and go away. He sounds like a stupid arsehole who is as chickenshit as most bullies are and who will back off if it becomes too difficult for him to torment you. I appreciate that it's very frightening to be harassed by wankers like him, but he does not have superpowers and the law is on your side.

ProphetOfDoom Tue 16-Jul-13 11:43:21

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ProphetOfDoom Tue 16-Jul-13 11:46:17

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

aturtlenamedmack Tue 16-Jul-13 11:50:08

If I were in your position I would move, change my number and warn family and friends not to tell him where I was.
Just get away. Couldn't give a fuck about the rights and wrongs of it.

Don't give the baby his surname! That's mad. Give him yours. Doesn't matter where your surname came from, it's yours now.

honey86 Tue 16-Jul-13 21:24:02

so would that give him an advantage in court then?

The name? Not at all. But it's a weird thing to do. You don't want this guy to have a major role in the child's life, so why give it his name? Apart from this ridiculous idea that children should have their father name no matter what? The child is joining your family, so give him your family name.

ProphetOfDoom Tue 16-Jul-13 22:13:13

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

honey86 Tue 16-Jul-13 23:11:09

gerrrr im so torn shock it just doesnt sit right giving him my late partners name when he isnt his... and baby has a sister who has fuckwits name....

i hate my maiden name always have done hence why i changed it...
i just thought cos hes threatened court, i know he'll accuse parental alienation n say i did it maliciously etc etc, i thought that giving him his bio dads name would kindof disprove that ("do you really think i would give him his surname if i was" kindof scenerio). and from what ive heard, the courts need to see im child focussed. ie; thinking of what the child would want.

i absolutely do not intend to have him on the birth certificate... but i was told by my sis that having his surname would make it easier for him to get pr, as rather than having to do a dna test he could just point out that the baby has his surname :/

gawd im so confused i dont know if im looking into it too much or what confused sorry if im rabbiting on.

FiftyShadesofGreyMatter Tue 16-Jul-13 23:32:17

Gosh I would absolutely not give the child his surname in this situation.

I'm not an expert but I would have thought for a child it would be better to share your and their sibling's name. You're never going to change it to his name. Less questions when younger, stops them being excluded, you can show in other ways that you are letting them understand their roots. They have the chance to change it when they're older. Do you think your late husband's parents would mind you using it in the circumstances? What would he say, he sounds as if he was a good an understanding man who would want to protect you & your children.

honey86 Wed 17-Jul-13 00:11:55

i wouldnt like to say... his mum sadly died a couple years before he did and his dad hasnt bothered with any of his grandkids for 3 years... i dont think theyd be angry but theyd prob find it wierd as he isnt the dad...

what about hyphenating it, with my name first... or is that just as bad ? :/

It doesn't sound as if the grandfather would even notice, so I would just use it, how often would he be using their full name anyway. It might be different if they lived around the corner and were looking after them all for you and doing school runs etc. It will be easier for you to share surnames at school/travel/drs etc. There are plenty of other ways to acknowledge him, is the twat father's name one which could be passed off as a middle name? Or use one of his first names as a middle name? When your child grows up and discovers more about the biological father they are unlikely to be proud that they share his surname.

Skintorama Wed 17-Jul-13 08:10:58

There is no way I would give your child his surname. That is one of the maddest things I have ever heard.

Your surname is YOUR surname, not your ex's, it's the surname you and your DC share. Don't ostracise your new baby by giving it a different surname to you and its siblings.

My two eldest DC have my exH's surname on their birth certs and passports. They haven't seen him for seven years, he's not interested in them, but when I applied to the court to change their name to our family name he refused to grant permission. Don't put your child in that position.

namechangeforaclue Wed 17-Jul-13 08:39:27

Hi there,
I gave my newest dd my ex husbands name (if you want to look at it like that)
I don't, it is my name, I took it when we married, I gave my children that name when they were born and had been called it for ten yrs.
When I had my newest child, my DP knew the baby would be having my name, the name of her brothers and sisters.
I will not change my name when I get remarried so all my children will always have my name, as it should be.
Do not give your child someone else's name particularly a someone who will not be involved in there life.
Why would you choose that link for your unborn child based on a tradtion?
You want your child to know their roots, you tell them their roots. Their name doesn't make any difference to where they come from (where they come from is you btw and if this man is to have no contact then you will be your childs roots)
I had objections from pretty much everyone ranging from people will think your ex is the childs father, (nope no one has. They think her dad is her dad.)
To she won't be able to trace her family tree, (she will because she will know her fathers name. So if she chooses to she can.)
Both of those gems came from people on here.
But most like you said it just felt wrong.
I think that mostly comes down to ownership of a nane.
These people felt that I did not own my name it was loaned to me by my husband and therefore I had no right to use it.
Some people told me I needed to ask his permission. .. to use my name.
I was furious at the thought that people felt I was not human enough to have a name I choose for myself.
Once I was not married anymore I should obviously go back to my maiden/fathers name.
It is crazy, that was a bit of a side bar. But I now think all children should have there mums name. As a general rule if a relationship breaks down it is the mother that is RP so it makes sense to have the children in her name.
If your name is that of the childrens still then bring your child in to your family by giving him/ her your name.
It is not your husbands name it is yours. Don't do something based on tradtion or other peoples expectation.
Do what is right for you anf your family.

namechangeforaclue Wed 17-Jul-13 08:43:16

Equally though. I don't think your child having a different name from you or its siblings will damage or hurt your family. It definitely will not ostracise your child.
My brother name was different to mine and my mums name was different after she remarried. It didn't have any impact on our family life.
A name does not make a family.

Give the baby your name but, as s/he grows up, don't pretend that the baby has the same father as the other DC. Do tell the truth but in a simple, kind, age-appropriate way - that youngest DC has a different daddy but some daddys are not good at being parents so we don't see him. As long as you emphasise that youngest DC is as much loved as all the others and not in any way at fault for having a bad daddy, it will be fine.

honey86 Thu 18-Jul-13 10:05:52

thanks sounds like a plan.. as much as i hate him for the hurt hes caused i dont intend to slag him off to the baby.... my mum did that and i hated it....
ive got my social worker visit later... bit nervous :/

showtunesgirl Thu 18-Jul-13 21:11:52

How did it go OP?

honey86 Thu 18-Jul-13 22:03:25

shes happy with how me, the kids and the pregnancy are, looked around my house n looked at where the baby will be sleeping, clothes, toys etc... i gave her letters n info bout dd's kidney defect, treatment etc... showed her the parenting courses n work ive done with the kids since they last saw me... and the notes/incident record i kept... explained as much as i could about fw's behaviour and threats...

she said shes going to contact the professionals involved- schools, health visitor, midwife, psychologist etc but cos fw is the dad of this baby she needs to talk to him too. ive signed a consent form for her to do whatever checks necessary. i think the worst the school would say is theyve been late a couple times (kids messing about in the mornings), and ive been working with my health visitor regularly anyway to keep an eye on dd's condition.

shes advised me to get a residency order to prevent him from abducting the baby... but im not sure if i should wait til he applies for contact before i do, or to get it done straight after birth. i havent a clue how to go to court.

what im worried about now is that fw will see having a named social worker as a ticket to easier allegation making, try to turn her against me in favour of him and reel out aload of lies. hes very good at making people trust him. he'll probably use this as a way of causing disruption, and claim to the court that they are involved because of me, not him.

Honey, talk to Women's Aid. They will help and advise you. At the moment, you are so scared of this man that you are seeing him as some superpowered monster, when he's just a loser who can be forcibly kept away. The social worker and other people have been advising you to take out court orders against him - do it. There's nothing to be torn or conflicted about, just use all the support in place to keep him away, because he's a bad person you don't need.

Madlizzy Fri 19-Jul-13 11:19:33

This social worker is working with you, not him. She's there to support you and will easily help you refute any allegations he makes. Give the baby your name, because it is yours just as much as it was your husband's. You can give the baby whatever name you choose. This man actually has now power over you, and now he knows this, he makes the empty threats to try and regain it. Stay strong and work with the agencies who are there to help you.

This social worker is working with you, not him. She's there to support you

Sorry but that's wrong. The social worker is there to support and safeguard the children and will listen to both parents equally. However I can assure you that most social workers are quite able to spot and identify abusers and they are likely to start from a position of assuming belief towards you unless you disclose anything that undermines that.

honey86 Fri 19-Jul-13 13:38:07

disclose something to undermine that? what do you mean? such as what?

I mean, the social worker will not assume you are lying about his abusive behaviour, she will be disposed to believe you unless you tell her something that causes her to think you are lying or being malicious. Not suggesting that you are, by the way.

Madlizzy Fri 19-Jul-13 19:35:35

She is working with her though, supporting and safeguarding the children, and the OP is working with her too as they want the same outcome - the children safe and well.

honey86 Fri 19-Jul-13 21:25:10

thats all i expect though tbh for her to see him for how he is n help safeguard my baby from being used as a control/abuse tactic n to prevent his dads issues messing him up. stability and happiness for my kids. all he does is cause disruption and hurt, even his own family dontlike him being around. i didnt think before the possible reasons why his ex cut contact with his dd i know now blush

tbf this particular social worker has worked with me before (after dcs dad passed away) so she knows all about me x

honey86 Sat 20-Jul-13 20:14:29

any ideas of what the social worker would be talking to him about? from what ive been told, he has no rights, at least until he goes to court.. so why do they need to involve him right now?
cant help but worry its going to give him the opportunity to lie even more and get to me mentally. thats how he works. i know i prob sound pathetic but thats how anxious he makes me.. cos i just never know what hes got up his sleeve.. what tactics he'll use next to try and ruin my life. hes made it clear already that he'll be happy to use my innocent kids as a weapon. sad

Honey, honestly, the law and the social workers are on your side. There is plenty of evidence that this man is a prick; they are not going to take any notice of his accusations because there is evidence that he is malicious and not to be trusted. Remember, you are completely entitled to cut off contact with him at the moment. He has no rights at all until the baby is born, and even when the baby arrives you can keep him at a distance. It might even be possible to get him registered as a 'vexatious litigant', which is a person who keeps trying to take other people to court purely out of malice - once a judge has ruled that someone is a vexatious litigant, that person is banned from bringing court cases.

Mumoftwoyoungkids Tue 23-Jul-13 12:39:08

Are you in contact with his ex? Ie the mother of his daughter? I think it would be useful if you two could share information.

honey86 Tue 23-Jul-13 15:43:28

i kindof know her but we never talk... tbh i dont think she cares about ex shes moved on wiv her new fella atm x

Chunderella Wed 24-Jul-13 16:46:37

OP are you genuinely in fear that he would remove the DC from the country? If so, you can apply to the court for a Prohibited Steps Order, so nobody can take her out of the UK without the court's permission. If your income is low enough to qualify, you could still get legal aid as you're a victim of domestic violence. You don't mention your income, but if you're on an income based benefit like JSA or IS you automatically qualify. If not, feel free to PM me and we can work out whether your income qualifies you.

(I'm a solicitor, I don't specialise in family but do have some experience).

honey86 Wed 24-Jul-13 17:12:04

i do think hes capable of it (having bragged out his plans). he even told me the area of spain he was planning of going to with his first dd.
i also believe he wouldnt hand my child back after contact( he smugly told me of his right to do that, and said hed definately do it if his contact was stopped for any reason). i honestly dont trust him as far as i can throw him, hes coming across as in that state of mind wherehes hellbent on revenge. he doesnt think straight at all when thinks are difficult and acts on impulse.

im on is at the mo and dla (my sons disabled) x

honey86 Wed 24-Jul-13 17:15:57

hes also insisted he keeps babys documents (birth cert etc) at his even though baby will live with me. he kicked up a stink because he wanted to apply for the babys passport and keep it at his and i refused (for obvs reasons)

Chunderella Wed 24-Jul-13 17:24:37

Right, in that case you need prohibited steps orders for both of them. This will prevent him from leaving the country with either of them. Is he on the birth certificate for the other DD you have together? If so, he has PR and could in theory apply for a passport for her and take her out of the UK, so you need to do this.

As you're on income support and are a victim of domestic violence, you will qualify for legal aid. If the solicitor wants evidence, as they may well, the fact that social services are aware of his threats and mental abuse should be sufficient.

No, don't give him the baby's documents. He won't have PR at birth as you're not married, he won't have PR by being on the BC as you're not going to let him on it. He may get it through the courts, if he can get his shit together, but it will take ages and until that time he has no right to any documents. Although I've a feeling anyone can get a copy of any page in the register of births and deaths, meaning he could get a copy of her BC if he particularly wanted it. makes no difference though.

Never mind what he insists. He is not in control here. Honestly, you can cut him off completely at present. He has no right to speak to you or interact with you in any way and he certainly has no right to any documentation at present. Use the law and the professional support that is available to cut this man right out of your life. You will have total freedom from him until the baby is born and even then it will take some time before he can force any kind of contact: he might have found another woman to abuse by then, or he might be in prison, or have dropped dead.

honey86 Wed 24-Jul-13 17:56:15

his dd is by his ex-wife.. hes on her birth certificate but his ex has withheld contact for about 2 years so far so luckily he hasnt had the chance to be alone with her.

im 25weeks preg with our ds (his 2nd baby, my 4th) so hes not on the birth certificate (obvs) and i dont intend to put him on it. but hes saying hes taking it to court to get pr and unsupervised contact... this has me worried cos of his threats... ppl have told me he'll easily get it and i cant prevent it... but i need that protection to prevent abduction etc.

a friend has already messaged his ex to make her aware of his threats as we're not sure if she knew that... no-ones heard back from her yet x

honey86 Wed 24-Jul-13 18:05:18

well i havent seen him since 16 weeks but hes been plastering around social networking sites about his intentions ive seen screenshots. hes so hellbent on getting his way i know he wont let this lie im sure when ds is born he'll be causing more trouble. hes already made it clear hes willing to use my kids and hurt them if it means he 'wins'

he claims im 'unstable' which is funny cos my social worker is going to get info on my mental health. my gp happily told me the other day hes pleased with my progress and thinks my mental health is very much controlled and stable grin as does homestart and my autism psychologist x

Chunderella Wed 24-Jul-13 18:42:16

Ok, so the only baby you have together is the one on the way, got it.

SGB is correct, he can't insist on much and isn't holding a lot of cards. Yes, if he goes to court then in the end he's more likely than not to get PR- though not necessarily, and he sounds dodgy enough that he might be in the minority who don't. However, it's quite difficult to get your shit together enough to go to court all by yourself. Which is why he's previously failed to do so with his DD- do you really think he's suddenly going to acquire competence now? It requires filling in forms, and paying a fee. Additionally, there's a very long wait even to get a hearing in a lot of family courts right now. Months and months, and it will only get worse as more litigants in person clog up the system. And even if he does get PR, that doesn't mean he'll get unsupervised contact. He has already made a quite considerable arse of himself. Courts look dimly on people who piss around with SS.

Save copies of all the screenshots, particularly anything vaguely threatening and alluding to hurting DC. And see a solicitor for advice on a prohibited steps order and possibly even an injunction. You do qualify for legal aid and there'll be a legal aid solicitor near you. Do you need help finding one? Don't delay. You want a paper trail in place.

honey86 Wed 24-Jul-13 20:40:08

ive got a solicitor who sent him a letter warning him of injunction... thats whats kept him quiet so far i think, cos he knows that an injunction will go against him... hes an arse** yes but he's also (or acts should i say) clever... hes clearly done his homework on the family law subject so he'll definately try to avoid the injunction. most likely he'd use that in court against me to say its proof im 'maliciously' cutting him out his babys life. hmm
my solicitor did suggest a residency order but said i wouldnt get la for it... little confused about that.
would i need to apply for an order right after birth or should i wait n see if he files anything? cos applying for one first wouldnt i effectively be paying for him to try n get residence?confused

TheDoctrineOfAllan Wed 24-Jul-13 21:00:32

Honey, please listen to SGB and Chub. The baby isn't here yet so his actions are against you not the baby.

Chunderella Thu 25-Jul-13 21:31:24

You apply for a prohibited steps order whenever you think you need one ie whenever you feel there's a realistic worry that he will remove DC from the country. It isn't related to his application for contact, if he makes one- they're two separate things. You don't need to wait until he does anything, and it won't cost you anything if you're on legal aid. And he hasn't done much homework if he's still in a position where he's not seeing his DD and is making up shit to social services. If I were you, I'd contact your old solicitor and ask for advice about a prohibited steps order to stop him removing DC from the country.

honey86 Tue 13-Aug-13 14:31:47

sw did her welfare check but said cos ex is the biological dad of this baby she has to talk to him.. i dont understand what this could possibly achieve other than give him to chance to spew more lies and stir things up sad ive been told by my my family worker that therell be a meeting in the next week, with just professions, that its just to get everyone together to share whatever info they have. she said she has no concerns with me or the kids. but why a meeting? feels like hes being given a place in mine n my kids life to sink his claws into- that bit of control over me he wants sad i just wana be free from his troublemaking sad

LackingEnergy Tue 13-Aug-13 20:40:54

Completely unhelpful but I'd have lied about your babies parentage before involving anyone. Something along the lines of 'oh silly me, I checked the dates and baby looks to be <insert random dudes name> so you're not the dad. Don't worry I don't expect you to play dad to a child that's not yours and I'll understand if you don't want to keep in touch'. If that didn't work I would have seriously considered a termination if it meant keeping him out of mine and my dcs lives.

Not what you want to hear and as I said completely unhelpful. I'd move (and change our names), it might be stressful and unsettling for your dc but will your ex constantly turning up and causing trouble not cause more stress to them in the long run sad


honey86 Tue 13-Aug-13 21:56:27

as much as id love to, id get really flamed by childrens services (my sons disabled and therefore classed as a child in need, and gets intense support from them to keep him developing. even minor routine changes make him regress). they gave me a right grilling when i considered moving away few years ago.

n hes already accused me of that lol we briefly split at 9 weeks preg and he accused me then of the baby not being his. and ive still got the text with it on x

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