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Need urgent advice please

(64 Posts)
aluvss Mon 28-Jan-13 12:50:21

Yesterday night my BIL’s wife called the police and left the house with their daughter aged 2. She called the police whilst they where arguing, she told them that he had hit her and her daughter. The police came and took her and her daughter. The y did not leave anything with my BIL. We have no idea where they are and we have no clue on what to do, would really appreciate some help and advice. Thank you.

courtsareadisgrace Mon 28-Jan-13 12:52:18

So your BIL is a violent abuser who has been violent towards his wife and daughter. The police have removed them to a place of safety and not told the violent abuser or his family where this is.

What exactly do you want?

Daddelion Mon 28-Jan-13 13:01:27

Where does it say he was violent?

courtsareadisgrace Mon 28-Jan-13 13:03:40

It says he hit his wife and daughter. I'd call that violent?

aluvss Mon 28-Jan-13 13:04:15

He did not hit her, my husband and my MIL were there at the time. She made the accusation that he hit her but he did not.

courtsareadisgrace Mon 28-Jan-13 13:06:45

Do your SIL and BIL live with you?

If your SIL was removed by the police (presumably to a place of safety with her 2 year old) it must have been a humdinger of an argument. Usually the man would be asked to leave.

aluvss Mon 28-Jan-13 13:09:02

Yes, they live in my MIL's house.

courtsareadisgrace Mon 28-Jan-13 13:09:49

oh that poor girl. homeless with a baby.

What exactly do you want advice on?

aluvss Mon 28-Jan-13 13:12:02

How my BIL can find out where his daughter is and what he can do to get her back.

courtsareadisgrace Mon 28-Jan-13 13:13:56

I am sorry but I am incredibly shocked at the fact that you want a baby returned to someone who has driven a mother and young child out of their home.

I assume, since the police were involved, that Social Services will now be taking an interest. Perhaps your BIL could contact them or the police?

mumblechum1 Mon 28-Jan-13 13:14:45

The chances are that =:
1. The police will arrest him, and then bail him with conditions attached not to return to the house until the matter's been dealt with one way or another

2. She'll get a solicitor to apply for a non-molestation injunction (so he doesn't assault, threaten or harrass her, usually for a year) and probably also an occupation order to force him out.

Whether either of these things happen depend on whether the courts believe the wife.

mumblechum1 Mon 28-Jan-13 13:15:58

The wife/mum will probably be housed in a refuge until it is safe for her to go back to the house.

Actually,just realised they don't have their own home so the occupation order bit won't work.

courtsareadisgrace Mon 28-Jan-13 13:16:28

mumblechum1 will the do 1 even though it's MIL house?

courtsareadisgrace Mon 28-Jan-13 13:18:12

I just cannot understand how the OP would think that the police would remove a young child and mother from their home after a row, and "leave something" with the other party to the (potentially violent) argument - what? Telling the BIL where they took them? That wouldn't be very sensible of the police now, would it?

aluvss Mon 28-Jan-13 13:20:59

The police have not arrested him, is there anything he can do to get to see his daughter.

aluvss Mon 28-Jan-13 13:23:09

As I stated before he did not hit her, she phoned the police and made that accusation when she realised things weren't going her way in the arguement.

Has he hit her in the past?

courtsareadisgrace Mon 28-Jan-13 13:24:55

I said (potentially violent) in brackets because that's what the police were told and it must have been a pretty heated argument for them to lift her and the toddler and take them away.

Why can't he ring the police? Or Social Services? I suspect it may also be helpful for him to talk to a solicitor.

aluvss Mon 28-Jan-13 13:24:58

And she has phoned the police before during an arguement and the police left a card with my BIL to contact them for information, that's why I thought they would leave something.

Do you know what the argument was about?

courtsareadisgrace Mon 28-Jan-13 13:26:26

Well, surely he can look up the number of the local police station and ring it?

aluvss Mon 28-Jan-13 13:26:51

No, he has never hit her. I will get him to contact police and social services. Thanks

Poor woman, she must have felt really desperate, and ganged up upon, by all her husbands family.

Do you have no empathy for her?

courtsareadisgrace Mon 28-Jan-13 13:27:54

Seems to me that that poor woman has a set of very interfering in-laws.

What about leaving it to her and your BIL to sort out?

aluvss Mon 28-Jan-13 13:28:33

Yes, they want to split up so my DH went there yesterday to sort everything out, but she wants to take her daughter abroad where as my BIL doesn't want that. She wants him to pay for her and the child to go abroad.

courtsareadisgrace Mon 28-Jan-13 13:30:08

My advice to you is step away and let them sort it out themselves.

God that woman must feel so so under attack. MIL BIL DH and uncle tom cobley and all off the family against just her.


aluvss Mon 28-Jan-13 13:32:54

We are not interfeering, she always phones my husband and talks to him about all her problems thats why he was over there. Yes, my brother in law is not good, he does not have a job and lives with my MIL but he has never hit her. She has been emotionally abusive towards him, and he is not able to stand up to her.

courtsareadisgrace Mon 28-Jan-13 13:34:02

That's your view of the situation. Hers will more than likely be different.

Your husband went to sort it out... What could your husband do? Other than helping his brother gang up on his unhappy wife?

No wonder she wants to split, you all must be interfering loons.

SaskiaRembrandtVampireHunter Mon 28-Jan-13 13:35:09

But you are interfering. Would you be okay if your SIL posted here to discuss your marriage with a bunch of strangers?

Is she having an affair with your husband?

courtsareadisgrace Mon 28-Jan-13 13:36:25

So he's a cocklodger to boot? Does she work?

aluvss Mon 28-Jan-13 13:37:56

Someone asked what the arguement was about. and she isn't having an affair with my husband.

Reaa Mon 28-Jan-13 13:38:16

PQ- I just thought the same thing

But your husband is not a stranger to the idea? I mean, why else would he come running every time SIL has a problem in her marriage?

courtsareadisgrace Mon 28-Jan-13 13:41:57

I suspect, aluvss, that you don't know the full story of what is and has been going on and I'd strongly advice you to keep your beak out. And your husband at home.

toosoppyforwords Mon 28-Jan-13 13:43:01

why is everyone assuming that the SIL is innocent victim in this ? She may well be and if so, complete sympathies, however i have seen situations where wife is violent both physically and emotionally towards husband and husband does not retaliate but when police and social services are called he is made out to be at fault, she claims he hit her and tells pack of lies etc etc DV does exist towards men too.

None of us know what really happened in this particular situation at all.

Feel very sorry for the daughter caught up in the middle of this mess. Either mum is telling the truth and has an abusive husband, or mum is lying/exaggerating and is horrible person to do this to her husband. Either way, poor kid

PatriciaHolm Mon 28-Jan-13 13:43:05

The police have been called before to their arguments, you say? So they have chosen to remove her and her child from a potentially abusive situation. He may not have hit her, but for the police to remove her, the argument between them (with your DH and IL's involved too) must have been very heated and they must have been concerned for her safety amongst so many people clearly against her.

You have no idea what has gone on in their marriage. It sounds like they need some outside, independent help to figure out how to make the split work though.

Has BIL tried calling the station to enquire, politely, whether they are returning or what the next steps are likely to be?

aluvss Mon 28-Jan-13 13:50:52

My husband does not go running everytime, she phones him, with her made up problems with my BIL. I will tell my BIL to call the station. They live with my MIL so I know what is going on. When the police came before, they did not remove her, they asked her what she wants to do and she went to a friends house and then came home again the next day. She wants to split from my BIL but take the child abroad which my BIL did not want and then she called the police.

courtsareadisgrace Mon 28-Jan-13 13:54:12

In the name of the wee man, you don't get it do you.

courtsareadisgrace Mon 28-Jan-13 13:59:17

How do you know they are made up problems? Do you all live with your MIL? In the same house? 24/7?

SaskiaRembrandtVampireHunter Mon 28-Jan-13 13:59:27

If she genuinely wants to take your niece out of the country your BIL needs to see a solicitor. There are legal measures that can be taken to prevent this happening. However, the situation is not going to be helped by your BIL, your MIL and your DH ganging up on her to the extent that the police feel they need to remove her from the situation.

mumblechum1 Mon 28-Jan-13 14:01:43

Hope this question isn't misinterpreted, but are you all from a culture where it's normal to all live together/in a tightly knit community?

aluvss Mon 28-Jan-13 14:07:17

Yes, we are from a culture were its normal for everyone to live together.

courtsareadisgrace Mon 28-Jan-13 14:07:58

Is your SIL from the same culture?

aluvss Mon 28-Jan-13 14:08:17

I do not live with them but I leave my dd with my mil when I am at work. So I know what is going on.

And is it also customary for your SIL to live together with the inlaws? Or is she from a different culture?

aluvss Mon 28-Jan-13 14:08:50

Yes she is.

So SIL is from the same culture. Where does she intend to go?

courtsareadisgrace Mon 28-Jan-13 14:10:26

With respect. The fact you leave your daughter there doesn't mean you know anything about what goes on. And also, this is a house that is full of arguements and conflict to such an extent that the police are involved. Do you have anywhere else you could leave your daughter?

Posted too son. Does she intend to return home, or go to a different country in Europe?

Why does her husband not work?
Does she work?

courtsareadisgrace Mon 28-Jan-13 14:11:08

PureQuintessence - I'm guessing SIL is wanting to go "home" to where the culture originates from?

courtsareadisgrace Mon 28-Jan-13 14:12:46

Also, does your SIL have any family of her own in this country?

aluvss Mon 28-Jan-13 14:15:24

Yes, she wants to go back to her original country. My brother in law does not work as he has heart problems, and he find it hard to breath when he is up and about for too long, but he could work if he wanted such as a working from home type of job. She does not work. My mil would be very upset if I left my dd with a childminder or someone else.

Well, not necessarily, she could want to go to Sweden, Germany,or Norway, for example, if she has family there.

My dentist, in London, is from Sweden, but his family is from India. He goes home to Sweden to see his mum, and he has only been to India once or twice.

ok x post.

So bit further away perhaps, and with different jurisdiction than some European countries, regards to this.

courtsareadisgrace Mon 28-Jan-13 14:30:04

Does the DD have dual nationality with the other country?

babybarrister Mon 28-Jan-13 21:40:02

If DS resident in UK her nationality is irrelevant to whether she can live abroad - that is decision for court if parents cannot the meantime your BIL may need to get a prohibited steps order to prevent a removal if there are concerns

STIDW Mon 28-Jan-13 22:49:16

I agree with babybarrister and in addition I would be to encourage your BIL to consult a solicitor PDQ. If he is on a low income he may be eligible for legal aid. He (or a solicitor) on his behalf can apply for contact or residence if appropriate, a prohibited steps order to prevent the child being removed from the UK and an order to disclose the whereabouts of the child. If there are allegations of DV the court can find out where the child is staying so that the papers can be served but they may not disclose the address to your BIL and contact may be organised in a contact centre until investigations into the alleged DV can be carried out. The courts may need to treat allegations of DV as if they were true, just in case.

In the meantime your BIL needs to keep away from his wife so that he doesn't leave himself open to further allegations of harassment.

Reaa Tue 29-Jan-13 00:23:58

Does DC have a passport if yes is it still in the house?

aluvss Tue 29-Jan-13 15:30:56

Thank you STIDW

My BIL has spoken to his solicitor who has given him advice. He has also phoned the police station and they said they would get back to him on Thursday and make an appointment where he can speak to his wife with a mediator.

Cosmosim Thu 31-Jan-13 18:35:59

I thought this was legal. Reads more like a witch hunt, with some posters not even reading the OP, making wild assumptions based on absolutely jack, and downright bullying the poster. I'll stick with the nice posters in AIBU. Christ on a stick.

Mrcrumpswife Thu 31-Jan-13 18:46:38

I thought this was legal. Reads more like a witch hunt, with some posters not even reading the OP, making wild assumptions based on absolutely jack, and downright bullying the poster. I'll stick with the nice posters in AIBU. Christ on a stick

I couldnt agree more with you Cos.

OP make sure he stays away until he with a mediator to protect himself. Any situation can easily be manipulated to look bad if someone wishes to do exactly that.

aluvss Fri 01-Feb-13 18:21:26

Thank you cosmosim and mrcrumpswife.

The police are being very long, they still have not interviewed him. His solicitor contacted the police, they said the officer in charge of the case has gone on annual leave for a week from today. So we have to wait another week.

She has been placed in a refuge the solicitor said. He told my BIL to get together as much evidence as possible to support his case.

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