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Aunt asking 40k out of my mums estate

(73 Posts)
LivinLaVidaLoki Sat 03-Sep-16 00:05:59

Both my grandad and my mum died recently. My mum died intestate and we have appointed a solicitor to deal with probate.
Tbh Im struggling enough having lost my mum so I just cant think clearly.
Years ago my grandad gifted my mum 40k. My mum did absolutely everything for my grandad and he said that while he had put in his will that his children were to inherit equally (to stop any squabbles), he wanted to do something nice for my mum.
My aunt called earlier and said that she is sorting my grandads affairs and she has the documentation for the 40k transfer.
She says that this was given to my mum by my grandad so that if he ever ended up in a home he would have some money that the govt couldnt take.
My grandad was vehemently against going in a home I cant imagine him planning on going into one.
So she wants me to transfer the 40k back.
I just said "well isnt it possible that that could be my mums inheritance" to which she said "your mum doesnt inherit, she died". I pointed out that in the eyes of the law she died after grandad so should still inherit (tbh I wasnt arsed about that money at all but I suddenly felt so mad that SHE had taken to the decision to completely disinherit my mother).
I told her Id need to speak to our solicitor (she was v. surprised we had one) but she said "I know you livin, I know youll do the right thing".
But wtf is the right thing? I just get the feeling she saw the money transfer and tried to catch me while Im very vulnerable to get it back to divide among my mums siblings.
I know I can speak with my solicitor on monday but I suffer badly with anxiety (again, she knows) and this is doing me in. I just want this all over so I can draw a line under it and everyone can start moving on with their lives. I cant cope.

Balletgirlmum Sat 03-Sep-16 00:10:38

a gift is a gift. Unless it was a loan then that money is your mums & now presumably you & her other next of kin. Thecinlybthing is that if it was less than a certain number of years there could be inheritance tax to pay on it.

And you need to check how your grandads will was worded. As your mum died after him her inheritance should (must if there was a will) go into your mums estate. Who is your grandads executor?

LivinLaVidaLoki Sat 03-Sep-16 00:13:09

It was five years ago the money was transferred. My aunt is the executor of my grandads estate. Shes doing it herself. My mum died a week and a half after my grandad.

sycamore54321 Sat 03-Sep-16 00:13:23

Oh gosh that sounds stressful. To be honest, in a way the intestate status makes it easier - you don't have the right (at the minute) to do anything with the money. Let the solicitor sort it all out. You have done the right thing advising the aunt to talk to her. Even if you assume (presumably without any evidence) that this transfer did take place as she says, then the primary purpose appears to be some sort of tax evasion? So I can hardly imagine the law upholding an invisible trust without any supporting documentation whose only purpose was to evade the law. Try to keep it all depersonalised as far as possible and keep everything through the solicitor.

I am sorry for your loss.

ijustwannadance Sat 03-Sep-16 00:20:33

Sorry for your lossflowers

I hate that these situations bring put the worst in some people. Money grabbers.

I have no clue about the legal side but I hope because your grandad died first that your mum's share of his estate passes to you and siblings if any.

LivinLaVidaLoki Sat 03-Sep-16 00:23:03

And also, my mum knew she were dying. She got everything together and explained what needed doing before and after her death so surely if there was 40k lying around that didnt belong to her she would have told us. She also was terrified of doing anything wrong or getting into trouble so why would she collude in this?

MagikarpetRide Sat 03-Sep-16 00:23:32

afaik your mother's estate inherits.

There are some laws regarding the amount of gifting you are allowed to do. I was under the impression it was under 30k to avoid inheritance tax (though if it was over 7 years beforehand it means nothing). So the gift may encounter some tax now. But that should come out of your gfs estate.

You are hurting too much now to think straight, then again so is your aunt probably. It is best to get your solicitor to deal with it all and stay out. Btw, using the solicitor you needed to have anyway is the right thing.

Im Very sorry for your losses flowers

zzzzz Sat 03-Sep-16 00:24:02

There's no need to be stressed about it because that is the whole point of having rules (laws) about what happens.

I would imagine you can't transfer your mothers money to your aunt. It's not yours. So just tell your aunt that for now.
Your mother presumably inherits her share from your Granddad and then her estate Wil go to your mums husband or be split between her children.

allsfairinlove Sat 03-Sep-16 00:34:17

flowers
I'm so sorry your'e going through this.

Rainbunny Sat 03-Sep-16 00:41:07

OP, as pp's have said, there is no issue your GD can gift money to whom he wanted to, and as long as the gift was more than 7 years previous to his passing and he was in sound mind, then there is nothing for you to worry about.

Your aunt can make a fuss but she'll soon realise (if she hasn't already) that she can't force you to do anything. Speak to your solicitor and explain everything and follow his/her advice. Don't feel bullied by your aunt, she simply can't demand anything from you. In your position, I would simply stick to the sentence - " Our solicitor is handling everything so it's out of our hands." It sounds like she really wants (needs?) some money so be prepared for her to get a bit nasty, that's when I would again repeat the sentence that the solicitor is handling everything and I don't want to talk or argue about it.

I don't want to assume the worst but since your aunt is the executor and doing herself (if she's not a legal professional she may interpret inheritance issues incorrectly etc...) and given her phone call to you I would perhaps anticipate some trouble, very much in your interest to fully explain things to your solicitor and have her deal with him! Good luck and remember , you don't have to be dragged into this discussion -just keep referring her to your solicitor.

JudyCoolibar Sat 03-Sep-16 00:42:34

Unless the aunt can produce evidence of what she says, she hasn't got a leg to stand on.

amammabear Sat 03-Sep-16 00:47:03

As you say the gift was less than 7 years ago, that does make it rather complicated.

Thinking of you.

Pipsqueak11 Sat 03-Sep-16 00:51:30

Your aunt is wrong , this is nothing to do with your grandads estateas he had already given it to your mum so it was not part of his estate. She sound Granby and as if she is trying to exploit you at a vulnerable time.let your solicitor sort it .sorry for your loss.

caroldecker Sat 03-Sep-16 00:52:02

If your GF gifted the £40k 5 year ago and his estate is more than £325k, then your mothers estate may have to pay inheritance tax at 24%, c.£10k. You need to advise your solicitor of the facts around this.
If his estate was less than £325k, then no issue.
If your aunt can produce documents that this was a loan, not a gift, then your mothers estate will need to repay the loan to your GF estate.

Pipsqueak11 Sat 03-Sep-16 00:57:17

I'm not sure but I think their is some tapering f relief from tax skids estate over threshold wild only pay tax 2/7 of total liability because he did survive for 5 years after gift was made

CotswoldStrife Sat 03-Sep-16 00:57:50

Sorry for your loss, not a time when you need this additional stress at all.

Firstly, the 40K - it does sound like a gift to me. There is a sliding scale for gifts given less than 7 years before death, which the estate (your Grandad's estate, that your Aunt is dealing with) so any tax liable will be met by the estate.

As for any further inheritance - is it common for wills to specify a period of time that the beneficiary is alive before inheriting, eg 30 days, so I would speak to your solicitor about this. If no period is stated, then your mother inherits as per the will. Can you get a copy of your Grandad's will? If your Aunt has probate, then a copy of the will can be purchased (although it may not be available right away).

Regardless of this, it is unlikely that they can claim the gift back. And as PP have said, it's not your money to transfer. Refer any further queries from your Aunt to the solicitor!

Again, sorry for all the stress - let the solicitor handle as much as possible.

LivinLaVidaLoki Sat 03-Sep-16 00:58:32

Looking back actually I remember it was about 7 years ago as I remember her telling me when Id had just had my new kitchen which was early 2009.
Grandads estate is worth less than 325k.

I just cant believe what kind of person would think its ok to ask someone grieving for their mum for 40k of their mums estate???

JaneJefferson Sat 03-Sep-16 07:36:18

Make sure your solicitor is aware of your Grandad's estate and what is being done by your aunt. I don't think she can claim the 40k and equally should not be able to disinherit your mother. It sound like it might get difficult so make sure you solicitor is on the ball with it all. Good job you have one and good luck.

birdladyfromhomealone Sat 03-Sep-16 19:56:03

My BIL was given 50K as a house deposit by FIL a few years before he died. my DH was not given any help when we bought our first house as at the time FIL didnt have the spare cash.
When he died we expected the inheritance to be split between BIL and DH equally we never asked BIL to pay back the 50K as that was a gift.
My DH is fine with it BIL got 76k and DH got 26k.
He has never mentioned it to his DB. If FIL wanted it to be paid back he would have put it in his will.

BombadierFritz Sat 03-Sep-16 20:04:18

its good you have a solicitor as an official letter asking about your mums inheritance will help your aunt focus aka not try and keep your mums share back. my dads will said if my mum died in the few weeks after his death that the money would go to his children. not sure why but it must have been recommended to put it in. so perhaps your grandads will is similar. the solicitor can find out.

v sorry for your losses so close together. stay strong. flowers

LivinLaVidaLoki Sun 04-Sep-16 19:48:04

Thanks everyone.
Tbh Im not arsed about my mums share of my grandads estate. Id give everything every fucking penny of it to have 10 more years with my mum.
My mums grant of probate has now arrived. I just cannot sleep over this. At what point has my relationship with my aunt deteriorated to "Ill have to ask my solicitor"??? After everything we've been through??

LIZS Sun 04-Sep-16 19:54:46

If it was only 5 years ago any amount above the annual tax free gift allowance would be treated as part of the value of your grandad's estate for inheritance tax purposes. Could she be misunderstanding the rules in expecting it to be repaid?

GipsyDanger Sun 04-Sep-16 19:58:00

I'm so sorry for your loss flowers death, babies and wedding somehow manage to bring out the worse in people. Let your solicitor handle everything and focus on yourself.

43percentburnt Sun 04-Sep-16 20:06:16

She is trying it on. She will no doubt try and guilt trip you calling you greedy or money grabbing (which is what she is).

She has to follow the intestacy rules if your grandad died without a will I'd be very concerned she is not doing this. Get your solicitor to check everything and take your entitlement.

Lunar1 Sun 04-Sep-16 20:14:45

Honestly, I'd get your solicitor to look into your mums share owed from the will. He passed away first so it's owed to the estate.

Your relationship with your aunt is up the creek now anyway! So sorry you are going through all this.

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