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What are the possible implications of this?

(26 Posts)
BusyCee Wed 27-Jul-16 17:04:58

I'm a PA. Earlier this year my employers 20yr old child got a penalty fare on the train, but was treated unfairly. My employer wrote a letter of complaint. Somehow, at that stage it all got forgotten and post remained unopened (this due to changes in PA and other admin complexities). This week we have discovered that the case has been referred to the magistrates court and a single justice procedure form (?) has been sent (but lost in the muddle of their admin).

What now? Appreciate the offspring has ultimate responsibility. But actually my employer offered to take control. External admin issues have been a factor.

Can we step in now to settle the fine without it actually ever reaching the magistrate?

If a fine is handed down by the magistrate will there be a criminal record for the offspring?

What a mess....

ImperialBlether Wed 27-Jul-16 17:07:00

Surely the adult child needs to dort this out? You're all doing him or her no favours.

BusyCee Wed 27-Jul-16 17:17:08

Er. The adult child doesn't know it's escalated. The adult child understood that the mother had taken control and resolved.

I do take your point, but that's a different thread in itself..

thecapitalsunited Wed 27-Jul-16 17:27:45

Get onto railforums.co.uk and post on their disputes and prosecutions board. They'll be able to advise on the next steps.

I imagine that the first thing they'll tell you is that a penalty fare is for honest mistakes not for criminals but that non-payment can result in prosecution. It depends on which bylaw the company are prosecuting under as to whether a criminal record is possible.

thecapitalsunited Wed 27-Jul-16 17:28:26

And in future, pay penalty fares first and ask for a refund later. It's much safer!

BusyCee Wed 27-Jul-16 19:35:49

Very helpful - thank you.

If a fine is levied by the magistrate under the sjpn will the offspring have a criminal record? Or does a fine not count as a criminal record?

titchy Wed 27-Jul-16 20:01:46

1. According to this yes the person will have a criminal record: CAB

2. Wtf is the parent doing sorting this out for their ADULT offspring?

3. Wtf is the parent doing getting their employees involved - seriously you should tell them you're not employed to deal with their personal family matters.

BusyCee Wed 27-Jul-16 20:15:44

Thanks Titchy. Good knowledge re; the prosecution and thanks for the link. I forgot the CAB existed...

(This is pretty much within my remit - it's not a traditional role. And someone needs to think pragmatically!).

thecapitalsunited Wed 27-Jul-16 21:00:51

There is a possibility of not getting a criminal record but you'd need to find out what the exact offence on the court summons is. A Regulations of Railways Act prosecution will result in a criminal record. A Railway Byelaw section 28 offence will not. The CAB is talking out of it's hoop.

Railway companies often prefer the byelaw prosecutions because they are strict liability - you commit the offence as soon as you get on a train without a valid ticket, no excuses.

You need to fish out the paperwork and find out exactly what the summons is for.

thecapitalsunited Wed 27-Jul-16 21:01:35

Sorry that's a Railway Byelaw 18 offence, got a bit type happy.

BusyCee Wed 27-Jul-16 21:38:17

Section 28. Heck...!

Thanks for the heads up. I've had difficulty actually communicating with the 'prosecutor' (the train company) as they only do so via post. They haven't responded to my enquiry yet so I'm not sure under which legal hoo-ha the child is being done. Will investigate directly.

thecapitalsunited Wed 27-Jul-16 21:57:55

Have you got a summons from the court or just a letter from the prosecution department? If not they might still be at the investigation stage. If so you could send a grovelling letter apologising for whatever it is your employers child has been accused of, saying that they will never do it again and have learned their lesson. In that letter offer to pay the fare owed plus a sum to cover the administration and investigation costs incurred by the firm in full and final settlement. If they accept it will most likely cost a few hundred quid but you avoid court.

Which train firm is it btw?

BusyCee Thu 28-Jul-16 02:14:37

Hi The Caps. It's South Eastern...

thecapitalsunited Thu 28-Jul-16 11:30:48

Have you tried phoning up customer services or their head office and asking to be put through to prosecutions?

They may not accept you dealing with it though due to the DPA though.

Cabrinha Thu 28-Jul-16 12:00:49

What a headache for you and of course none of it your fault.
But I was hmm at the idea this "child" (a 20yo) was "treated unfairly".
It's my guess that the kind of person who has mummy write a complaints letter is the kind of person who would complain about utterly non existent unfair treatment!

Hope you get it sorted for your sake, though!

ThatsMyStapler Thu 28-Jul-16 12:23:00

are you a PA to someone famous OP?

LurkingHusband Thu 28-Jul-16 14:27:03

My employer wrote a letter of complaint. Somehow, at that stage it all got forgotten and post remained unopened (this due to changes in PA and other admin complexities).

Are you saying the correspondence was not going to the home address, but the parents work address ?

BusyCee Thu 28-Jul-16 18:54:05

Thanks all. My employer isn't famous!

The offspring got on a train at a small rural station. Ticket machine out of order, no guard on train. At the London terminal the offspring went to pay for the ticket but was given a fine. The revenue protection chap was apparently rude and aggressive and wouldn't accept the offsprings defense.

Post was going to parents home address (which Is where I work). But not being opened....

thecapitalsunited Thu 28-Jul-16 20:05:58

If there was no ticket office and the ticket machine was out of order then he cannot be prosecuted for not having a ticket unless he attempted to leave the station without paying.

Of course it may be difficult to prove that the ticket machine was out of order.

The offspring needs to get in touch with Southeasterns prosecution department quickly by letter and tell them exactly what happened that day. Do not mention anything about the RPIs attitude, it's subjective and will get you nowhere. Stick to facts. He got on at this station where there were no ticket buying facilities and got off at x station where he tried to buy a ticket but got a penalty fare. You enclose a cheque for the ticket cost which you owe the company and hope that this settles the matter.

And remember it's not a fine, only a court can fine. A penalty fare is a standard ticket issued for honest mistakes. It shouldnt have been in this case but everyone has made mistakes at work, right?

BusyCee Mon 01-Aug-16 17:26:53

The SJPN has been found. Prosecuting under section 18 of Railway Byelaws 2005.

I suspect this has already been heard by the magistrate (as SJPN was issued mid June and were now the beginning of August.)

So. I anticipate that a fine will be levied - but will she be the owner of a shiny new criminal record too?

Thanks all for helping out. I really appreciate it

thecapitalsunited Mon 01-Aug-16 18:14:43

A prosecution under the Railway Byelaws 18 won't result in a criminal record. If I were the DD I would be proactive in finding out how much I was fined and paying it asap because non-payment of court fines is serious. She should be able to find this out with a call to the court in question.

I'd also suggest that she gets some lessons in dealing with things like a grown up because had she bothered to deal with the problem it wouldn't have ended up in court. If she alighted at a station with no ticketing facilities (including machines) and tried to pay at the first opportunity then the penalty fare was issued incorrectly and could have been appealed. I honestly don't know if it's worth appealing the conviction at this stage. You would have to consult a solicitor, perhaps one familiar with railway law, to find out.

BusyCee Mon 01-Aug-16 18:43:47

Thanks TheCapitals.

I suspect that this has raised something of a flag about managing these sorts of things better.

gingeroots Tue 02-Aug-16 09:10:17

You sound like a great PA . You're employer lucky to have you smile

gingeroots Tue 02-Aug-16 09:10:36

your even

BusyCee Tue 02-Aug-16 14:20:30

Ah. Thanks Ginger! flowers

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