Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you have any legal concerns we suggest you consult a solicitor.

Urgent advise on grandparents rights pleaee

(50 Posts)
Thethreeandme Sun 10-Jul-16 11:03:01

I'll keep it as short and simple as possible.
The paternal grandmother to my eldest two children is applying for access. Court ordered that my 8 yr old feelings should be gained. They were and she said she didn't want to see her because she wasn't nice and it would make her feel weird. These were not included in the report as it said my daughter could not give any logical reason why contact shouldn't happen.. SHE'S 8 WHAT WE'RE THEY EXPECTING a comprehensive account 😡 so I have to mention the dad.. is in prison and also hasn't seen the children in 4 years. No contact requested from him although he apparently supports his mom's ap. This will be terrible for my children whilst there is no physical safe guarding worries from my side the emotional damage it will do to my children will be awful. What do I do if court agree their recommendations. How successful are appeals in people's experience and what if I just refuse. . Surely as a mother I have more rights than this grandmother?? Please offer some advice this isn't going to happen I just need to know how I can prevent it tia xx

Fourormore Sun 10-Jul-16 11:09:46

You can only appeal if the judge makes some kind of error. You can't appeal just because you don't like the judgement.

What kind of emotional damage are you talking about? How often has contact been recommended?

If you refuse then the paternal grandmother will need to apply for enforcement which can lead to fines, community service and prison.

You don't have rights and neither does the grandmother. The child has rights to have contact with her family.

Thethreeandme Sun 10-Jul-16 11:29:48

Hello,
The grandmother never had a really close relationship with them my son has no idea who she is he was only 9 months old when he last saw her my daughter was jist under 4. They have nans and grandads who they see every day. My daughter very clearly expressed her wishes and said she didn't want to see her. This hasn't come from me because in 4 years I've not so much as mentioned her name. So much so that when Cafcass asked her to write down what she would feel if contact happened she didn't know who he was talking about and I had to explain. They haven't included her wishes in the report.
There was a lot of stress and anger when we did have contact with her. Her son is a heavy drug user hense no contact and she has him living with her. I've had to call the police on her daughter (paternal aunt) for threats of violence to me. The grandmother herself swears and smokes around the children has been verbally abusive to me in front of the children. And she is so fiercely loyal to her son she would talk about him all the time and allow the children to be around him. They have ran my name through the dirt with Cafcass making claims that have cost time and money to disprove. .

Wolpertinger Sun 10-Jul-16 11:29:58

She doesn't have rights and it is about the relationship of the child -if she doesn't have any relationship with the child she isn't likely to be granted much. Realistically no-one is going to be excited about enforcing this to the level of community service and prison - it would just drag on in circles going nowhere.

One step at a time - contact hasn't been granted yet. If she has no existing relationship with them at best she would be granted very minimal contact. Neither is the contact going to be viable if the kids hate it now and have to be dragged to it and can't wait to get away.

If the kids hate it, as they get older it can be reviewed and their wishes taken into account again - no-one forces teenagers to go for example.

Have you got a solicitor involved? You need proper legal advice to represent your kids point of view, and make sure you are presenting it as the kids point of view and not yours.

Thethreeandme Sun 10-Jul-16 11:31:19

No contact has been recommended yet just that it should happen.. the grandmother has asked for regular contact and then further down the line over night stays

gallicgirl Sun 10-Jul-16 11:33:47

Why would the court request your child's opinion then not put it in the report? Very odd.

Thethreeandme Sun 10-Jul-16 11:35:09

I had appointed a solicitor who quotes between 4-7k which I simply can't afford I do work but that is way off what I can afford! The children my daughter included have zero relationship with her. They have had a lot of change recently and I just think this thrown at them as well will be hugely unsettling for their mental stability. I should also mention I also have another younger daughter who is 2 will the court not take into consideration the potential divide this will create between my children I'm so worried I can alow this to happen to my children

Thethreeandme Sun 10-Jul-16 11:37:16

Gallicgirl exactly!! I only received my copy of the section 7 Friday afternoon but will be contacting the office Monday morning. Luckily I recorded the whole conversation and have my daughter clearly stating she does not want to see her. I also asked him not to refer to her as nanny r** as this isn't what she knows her as but he kept on doing it. He felt very biased toward the grandmother from the second he arrived

HopeArden Sun 10-Jul-16 11:37:26

She is fucking cheeky expecting overnight stays for children that are not hers!
Get yourself proper legal advice and challenge it all the way.

HopeArden Sun 10-Jul-16 11:38:12

Sorty. X posted

Thethreeandme Sun 10-Jul-16 11:40:57

Hopearden I know I'm in utter shock that people who don't know my children or this woman can make this kind of judgment. I'd rather be in contempt of court.. and I will be I simply can not allow this to happen I'll take it to the papers the high Court the local mp.. I don't know but my children's rights because of their age is over seen by me and I will protect it at any cost I'm just so worried I'd much rather someone simply listen to me 😦

Thethreeandme Sun 10-Jul-16 11:43:15

If anyone has a similar case I'd love to know the outcome.. hopefully it won't happen but I've been told that what goes in these reports may as well be the gospel

Fourormore Sun 10-Jul-16 11:45:32

I'd be very careful ringing the office up and going on about having recorded the whole thing.

If you want to challenge the section 7 report, the time to do that is at the next hearing. This includes asking why her wishes and feelings were not included.

A recommendation that there should be contact could be anything from birthday and Christmas cards only to supervised contact once a fortnight or unsupervised contact or overnights. If there has been no contact at all then it would start at the lower end and work up. She won't get overnights just because she wants them. She would need to demonstrate that it was in the child's best interests.

0dfod Sun 10-Jul-16 11:48:00

So one son is living at home and abuses drugs, she smokes in her house and is abusive? I would be phoning ss for advise here. You may find that it works in your favour if you suggest supervised visits in a contact centre (where things can be monitored). Clearly your dd being forced into an environment where drugs are being used is a safe guarding issue, hence getting advice from ss.

You must get dd's wishes into the court arena and documented.

Maybe a chat with nspcc and her Dr too, also get her school on board as you are concerned how this is impacting her. The more people that you get inside the better. Make sure that you create a paper trail and document all communication.

Good luck Op, I feel for you.

Fourormore Sun 10-Jul-16 11:48:41

You aren't going to win any favour of the court with that sort of attitude. If you have a child focused case then put it forwards. You can attempt an appeal - you'd then be at risk of having to pay the grandmother's costs if your appeal failed. Your MP is very unlikely to get involved. Putting yourself in contempt of court clearly isn't a sensible way forward. Judges don't just say "Oh sorry, you don't like my order, okay then never mind"...!

CAFCASS recommendations are not always followed - it's the judge's decision in the end.

Thethreeandme Sun 10-Jul-16 11:51:36

He said in the report also that it is my responsibility as mother to discuss her in the home so the children Get comfortable with it.. why would I do this because if contact isn't ordered then I won't make my children talk about a stranger they don't know to say oh yea you don't have to think about that any more.

Thethreeandme Sun 10-Jul-16 11:53:13

Fourormore I know I can't do that which is why I'm so worried about them making a an order because I know I will have to comply.. this is why it's concerning me so much I need to stop this ridiculous notion before it happens

Fourormore Sun 10-Jul-16 11:53:36

You can talk about it as a possibility so that they have time to get used to the idea. You don't have to say or imply that it's definite.

headinhands Sun 10-Jul-16 11:57:42

The child has rights to access her to both her grandparents. If the child doesn't know who they are then contact will be built up. Not knowing who they are doesn't add any weight to your case and is a moot point. You need to be seen as calm and logical. Bringing up the fact that she smokes in the proceedings will not help and just paints you as obstructive. I appreciate how fiercely protective you are but things will be better for all of you if you can keep things logical an factual when it comes to concerns about your children's wellbeing should they have access.

Cosmo111 Sun 10-Jul-16 11:57:44

I never heard of a grandparent getting over nights unless care has been totally taken away from the mother and they have parental responsibility. They can factor grandparents having a certain level of access but it would be no where near the level of another parent. Could be monthly or fortnightly. Parents still have certain rights over who is involved in their children's lives externally. They don't have rights in the same way a father does.

Thethreeandme Sun 10-Jul-16 11:59:41

ODFOD I really appreciate that.. the thing is I don't want any contact what so ever.. my children due to my failures have had a lot of change lately we've moved area so there fore school etc.. after I split with the dad of my youngest. She is getting herself back on her feet she struggled with school at first but is happy and settled now I don't want anything to upset the apple cart. She's such a sweet little girl and things really play on her mind this has the potential to worry her and damage her long term. If it's not broke why fix it? This will cause nothing but angst for my children. The grandmotherhas never worked a legal day in her life.. claims disability but works a few nights in a pub.. she is on a cocktail of prescription drugs..eg amitriptylin to help her sleep.. she has epilepsy.. smokes like a trooper swears..her daughter has a boyfriend in prison and her 14yr old daughter attempted suicide last year because her mom was arrested. . The whole family is honestly the pits.. you'll ask how I got involved.. I met my ex when I was 18 and he seemed exciting to my stupid immature head. Things developed very quickly.. now here I am 😦

headinhands Sun 10-Jul-16 12:01:01

I also think it's a good idea to broach the subject with your dcs now in case access is granted. After all it's all about making this as easy for the children as possible and talking about it now will give them more time to get their head around it.

Thethreeandme Sun 10-Jul-16 12:03:45

Thank you all I do feel obviously very strongly about it as it's very hard to put in this thread all of the things that have happened over the years as to why I don't want this to happen.. I will stay calm and logical in court.. I Nedd to mention it's not smoking I smoke myself but outside and NEVER around my children I've had rows with this woman in the past because she's lit a cigarette whilst holding my child so I've taken them and left.. my point more so on grounds of swearing and smoking is that she has zero respect for the way I wish my children to be raised

headinhands Sun 10-Jul-16 12:03:58

If she gets access you'll still be the main influence. Please don't bring up things like her prescription drugs in the proceedings as you'll be flagged up as unreasonable (lots of wonderful parents are on 'a cocktail' of prescription drugs)

Thethreeandme Sun 10-Jul-16 12:07:47

Headinhands I know you're right and it would make sense I just don't want to over load their little heads with confusion and worry 😕 this is such a horrible situation to be in and so frustrating. . If it were her son as much as I'd obviously still reject his claim until he could prove to be living normally I would understand he's the dad but her??? She was barely a grandparent when we were together.. then to wait 4 years to make a claim.. why would she not of done this as soon as I left? And I left FYI due to domestic violence and she used to come over to my house f..ing at me chasing my car every time I left the house.. so I left and didn't tell her where I was.. but she had my mom's address which is where the court order was sent to

Join the discussion

Join the discussion

Registering is free, easy, and means you can join in the discussion, get discounts, win prizes and lots more.

Register now