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help!!! boundary dispute! I want a fence!

(128 Posts)
mummytohpm Fri 13-May-16 19:49:29

Hi!

I'm sort of new here. Commented on a few things but now I need some help!

Basically I want to build a fence to enclose my back yard. I am apparently not allowed to do this according to a lovely landlord who owns some houses on our street.

My house is a mid terrace - please see attached drawing to illustrate! I don't know how to explain it otherwise!

I own all the yard. Up to their back doors. It is shown clearly on my deeds. It is not shown on theirs - they only own the actual properties and it stops at their door steps. (I have seen 2 and 6 deeds) however it is referred to in the deeds as a 'common yard'

Right so I want to build a fence as shown but the landlord who owns house 2 and 6 reckons I can't.

Basically, 2, 4, 6, 81 and 85 have hanging rights and access rights over the yard.

In my deeds it stipulates that all the houses must be able to gain access to their properties and that the washing line must hang from 2,4, 6 or 81 over to 85s garage!

However - 85 doesn't have a garage anymore. They knocked it down last year. Also there is now a 7ft fence between us and 85 (for the record we have no issue with this personally)

So - for access building this fence wouldn't be a problem as we're not enclosing or blocking off anyone's door, and obviously 85 have their own access on the other side of their fence.

The problem is the hanging rights. The LL is saying that by building a fence we are obstructing these rights.

For one thing nobody hangs their washing out, and their are no lines. For two, the garage they should be attached to does not exist.

I have said to this LL that I will put a gate on the fence and either lock it and give them all a key should they want to hang their washing from my fence to 85s fence, or I will leave it open.

My solicitor has advised that this is reasonable and that the gate has to be wide enough for a wheelchair.

LL doesn't think this is good enough and has advised he will take me to court if I erect a fence. And charge me for the pleasure of doing so.

As a side note - this LL never had a problem with mr 85 building his fence or knocking his garage down. LL definitely knew about this when it happened as he lives about 5 doors up from mr 85 and wanders the streets all the time!

So can I legally build this fence?

I don't entirely trust my solicitor so before possibly being taken to court I thought I'd consult MN!

Thanks!!

MovingOnUpMovingOnOut Fri 13-May-16 19:54:20

I'm not sure I follow all that but why don't you trust your solicitor?

mummytohpm Fri 13-May-16 19:57:43

The solicitor in question was a colleague of my conveyancing solicitor who was not very good! His response was a bit wishy washy to be honest

SavoyCabbage Fri 13-May-16 19:57:53

Do you own the land at the back of 81?

It says in the deeds that they must be able to have a washing line that goes from their properties at the way across the back of your house and on to the (now non existent) garage on the other side???

mummytohpm Fri 13-May-16 19:58:57

Savoycabbage - yes I own the whole 'square' if you like

Yeah the line has to cross my garden and attach to the garage

mummytohpm Fri 13-May-16 20:01:57

This is a pic of my land registry if this helps

Can see how crap my diagram is now ha!

mummytohpm Fri 13-May-16 20:02:50

And I got 2 and 6 the wrong way round hmm

MyLocal Fri 13-May-16 20:05:24

So my washing line is around five feet from the ground and a prop puts it over six foot, can't you put a four foot fence with gates in it? They can hang a washing line over it.

mummytohpm Fri 13-May-16 20:06:30

Mylocal

I suggested that too but apparently the fence is still an obstruction!

Even though they wouldn't lose any hanging space not that they would ever use it

CodyKing Fri 13-May-16 20:06:57

What does 4 say?

I assume LL feels his tenants look as though they have back yard space when it's yours?

How long have u lived there

mummytohpm Fri 13-May-16 20:09:23

4 doesn't care.

4 rents and isn't bothered. Oh has spoken to him but not his LL as we don't know who this is.

If we do erect fence we will ask him and write to them out of courtesy anyway.

mummytohpm Fri 13-May-16 20:10:27

LL of 2 and 6 knows we own it but for some reason thinks he has some sort of power over it,

I think he is trying to cause trouble because he wanted to buy this house but his offer was declined

We have lived here since Dec 2014

CuntingDMjournos Fri 13-May-16 20:12:03

Get a second opinion from a solicitor who is recommended / experienced in this work if you are not sure about the first solicitor. However he could be wishy washy because the deeds aren't clear which means a nightmare with no clear outcome if the landlord is determined to object and take it to court!

Artistic Fri 13-May-16 20:22:59

The LL is not agreeing because his houses will struggle to find tenants if they see your fence. I suggest you go right ahead and build it just to assert your right of ownership. No court will stand by him.

Kidnapped Fri 13-May-16 20:24:48

Hmmm.

I'm not sure that the problem in practical terms is the hanging rights.

I think it is the access rights. Common yard suggests to me that it is intended for use by all the houses. The whole yard - not just the bit that you want them to have. If I lived at any of the adjoining houses, I would be seeking legal advice on this.

What does it say about the common yard in the deeds of houses 2 and 6? What is the exact wording?

And what exact wording does it say in your deeds?

Tummyrumbled Fri 13-May-16 20:28:54

if you're putting a fence, (which I assume is the one with dotted lines) seems like you're giving 2, 4, 6, 81 a part of the yard you own and the people who live/will live there might exclusively use it as you have put a fence.

mummytohpm Fri 13-May-16 20:43:32

I don't know what it says in 2 and 6 deeds I don't have a copy - only seen them in meeting with LL I was not allowed to keep a copy though I gave him a copy of mine

Please see attached deeds

mummytohpm Fri 13-May-16 20:44:47

Tummyrumbled

You're right I am essentially giving them some land

But I just want some privacy so I'm happy to give them that even sign it over if they want! It's a small amount to lose to gain an enclosed yard/garden!

Kidnapped Fri 13-May-16 20:57:31

Do numbers 2, 4, 6, and 81 have current access through the common yard onto Back Street as you call it? Is there a gate there at the moment that gives them all access to Back Street?

What is in the common yard at the moment? Just bins? No sheds or any other structures?

Presumably the ashes part refers to a time gone by when folks dumped their hot ashes in the yard.

mummytohpm Fri 13-May-16 20:59:33

Kidnapped - the yard is open to the back street there is no fence at all - only 85 is enclosed

There are wheelie bins but no sheds or anything else.

mummytohpm Fri 13-May-16 21:00:23

Yes presume ashes bit is now redundant!

mummytohpm Fri 13-May-16 21:02:01

Shall I post a picture of the yard or is that not a good idea?

mummytohpm Fri 13-May-16 21:04:41

Bugger it!

That's our house , we would build fence where the fence post is on the extension straight out to the back street and across

This is an old pic as you can see the 7ft fence is not there and the garage is!

Hope this helps?!

BombadierFritz Fri 13-May-16 21:11:45

If all the land is yours why not just fence it off across the back yard and then use all of it?

mummytohpm Fri 13-May-16 21:12:28

Because I want some private space and I don't want to sit outside with my neighbours!

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