Car insurance, really, can they?

[minxthemanx]

I posted on here a couple of months ago, about a lady who accused me of hitting her car in sainsburys car park. I had no recollection of any impact, and judging by the size of the massive scratch along her car, I would definitely have known. She was busy rubbing the side of my car, and saying "it was much worse than that but I've rubbed it off." To cut a very long story short, she later asked for £150 cash to have it repaired, not thru insurance. I refused and said I would only deal with insurance company. I alerted my insurers to the situation. Thanks to someone on MN, I then asked supermarket if they had CCTV. They did, and according to manager, it showed my car parking with empty space next to me, ie she wasn't there when I parked. I told insurers. Have heard nothing since until this week, when I received letter from my insurer saying they decided i was at fault! They have emailed sainsburys 3 times but still haven't got CCTV. Their engineers have looked at the woman's mobile phone photos, and decided that my car caused the damage. Nobody has inspected my car (I said at the beginning I s happy for an engineer to come and inspect). Nobody has asked me for a written statement or any formal report. Apart from the brief narrative I gave them over the phone when I originally rang them, they have nothing but her version of events. I am astounded. Can my insurer really decide I'm liable, with no written evidence from me, no inspection of my car, and just give up on the crucial CCTV? Would welcome your thoughts.

[Lauren15]

Years ago a woman hit my car in the car park while I was stationary. She got really worked up and said I was to blame. A friend who worked for an insurance company reassured me they would be able to get the truth from CCTV. I never heard anything about it again. Your insurance company sounds like it's taking the easy route. You should fight this.

[minxthemanx]

I have sent fairly strong email to insurance company today, telling them I'm far from impressed. Why haven't I been asked for written statement??! I've told them if they can't get the CCTV, I will involve insurance ombudsman or solicitor. In the meantime, I'm emailing sainsburys re CCTV, but am not happy as that's what I pay insurance premium for!

[minxthemanx]

Lauren, how could you be at fault if stationary?! The brass of some people!

[mineofuselessinformation]

Do you have legal cover as part of your insurance?
Contact them is so - they work for you, not your insurance company.

[minxthemanx]

Not sure if I have legal cover, but good thinking, I'll check.

[Sallyhasleftthebuilding]

You should have got the police involved when it happened.. no help now!
I think that as you have emailed the companies involved there isnt much else you can do. £150 is a small amount for an insurance company so they are sweeping it under the carpet, at your expence. Have they asked for excess? No claims affected? Etc.. Also why did you give her your details? You didnt have too.

[minxthemanx]

I gave her my insurance details as she kept texting, asking for cash, and I didn't want any more contact with her. Didn't see any need for police involvement at the time, tho did give her details to a policeman friend in case she was trying it on with other people. My main complaint is that my insurer has said I'm liable with no written statement from me; are they allowed to do that? It doesn't help that she is with same insurance company.

[chunters]

Years ago something similar happened to me. I had reversed into a stationery car - it was just a few feet behind me, caught the front headlight on an angle, caused the plastic casing to crack (not smash completely but a fairly substantial crack). Got out to inspect damage, apologise and exchange details. As I was about to get back in the car the other driver called me back to point out the palm sized dent in the middle of the bonnet that I had caused!!!! Obvious to me that my much lower car could not have 'reached up' and caused that damage and I did say so to the other driver. Didn't want to get into an argument - it was late at night and I was on my own.

Anyway I spoke to the Insurance company explaining the damage I did cause but denying the damage on the bonnet. Despite them assuring me that they would challenge any claim for the bonnet damage they just paid up :(

I just think they took the easy option, made me made as hell at the time that they did not believe me / did not even challenge the other driver.

[TensionWheelsCoolHeels]

You need to find out exactly what the ins co have done to try & obtain the CCTV footage. It's not held for long, often gets wiped after 28/30 days. Did you ask the person who reviewed the footage to keep it so your ins co could get a copy? Did you get the name of the person you spoke to & contact details i.e. the means to speak to them? The ins co can instruct a CI to call out & speak to that person, view the footage, comment on the footage while the actual copy is being requested. There are DPA considerations to take into account when applying for CCTV footage & it can be very difficult to get hold of CCTV footage easily - especially if not applied for correctly at the outset.

The problem you have is that the cost of doing all that is often more than the cost of the claim & that can be the reason for not doing what could yield the evidence required to prove you didn't hit the other car.

You need to expressly state that you object to their conclusion on liability, you do not accept fault & you do not agree to them settling the claim. They can still override that, but if you make clear your objections, make a complaint & they have made a mistake you should at least be able to request that their mistake doesn't impact your ins NCD/premium etc.

[goodasitgets]

A guy punched my car - admitted it and police involved. Insurance put it down as malicious damage but I lost my no claims, he only had to pay me £100 (in instalments) and it was £800 worth of damage! Premiums went up too. Unhappy wasn't the word

[TrinityForce]

Insurance just seems shit!

They really can, absolutely useless.

A car crashed into the side of mine as he was trying to turn - he admitted liability at the scene, said he didn't see me because of the rain... I asked the store if they had cctv (yes) did it have the crash on? (yes), told the solicitors and insurance, neither retrieved it. Now 12 months on they're saying there's no evidence as now they can't collect the CCTV.

Absolutely useless, the lot of them!

[Indantherene]

Doesn't surprise me. DH had 2 separate accidents ( a few years apart) caused by another driver and both times his insurers decided it was 50/50.

In the first one somebody overtaking 1/2 a mile of slow moving traffic all stuck behind 2 mopeds knocked his car off the road. He said DH "pulled out into [his] lane of traffic". It was a single carriageway so he didn't have a lane of traffic. The fact that he was doing about 70mph on a 40mph road was ignored, as apparently it "wasn't relevant" .

In the second, DH was stationary, waiting to turn right out of our road. A woman coming from his right, at speed, lost control of her car on the bend, tapped the front of his car and went off the road. The police turned up, said she was clearly at fault. She was driving her mother's car and apparently wasn't insured.

Then her 3 brothers turned up, spoke to police and suddenly the story was DH had pulled out - left - hit her up the back and knocked her off the road . We tried really hard to fight that as it was a downright lie - why would he have turned left when he was waiting to go right - but they settled that one as his fault. I lost all faith in the police after that. She even tried to claim compensation from him.

[Sallyhasleftthebuilding]

I reversed into a stationary car and dented the back door. He claimed whiplash but wasnt even in the car!! He was knocking on the door of a house, which she witnessed. He was a council school taxi driver, not insured, or taxed, and they STILL paid up .... they are responsible for the premium increases far more than the rouge drivers.

[minxthemanx]

God it's shocking isn't it! What the bldy hell do we pay our premiums for? I'm fighting this purely on the principle; v pissed off that insurer has ruled liability against Mr, without my version of events.

[minxthemanx]

Me not Mr.

[Collaborate]

I have a dashboard camera on my car now. some of these stories about being unable to prove fault are really concerning. Would advise anyone to get one.

[WhoTheFuckIsSimon]

According to my brother, no they can't.

I was in a similar situation and my insurers wanted to settle 50/50 and I refused. I said I totally disputed that I was at fault and would go to court if necessary. Insurers can't settle without you agreeing I don't think.

Mine didn't, and in the end other insurers admitted full liability in the end.

[TensionWheelsCoolHeels]

WhoThe, they very often can make the final decision but it's not straight forward. What you will tend to find is that when you report an incident to your insurer, the paperwork you sign is giving your subrogation rights to the insurer. If it's not in the small print in the accident report form, it'll be in the T&Cs in your ins policy i.e. they'll say that they can have final say on how to deal with a claim. 9/10 it'll come down to economics & that will always override the wishes/feelings/instructions of the policyholder. Occasionally it doesn't but you have to fight really hard to get that outcome.

All the OP can do here is object to the decision, challenge them on how they came to that decision & what evidence they have that persuades them to make that decision & also specifically ask them to consider referring the matter to their fraud dept as there's a chance the fraud dept might do more (but if it's only £150.00 claim, even the fraud dept will likely decline to get involved due to economics - it'll cost double that to instruct an investigator & the claims handler is aware of that). It's simply Sod's law that as soon as you are on the receiving end of this sort of claim, the odds are stacked against you.

And collaborate's idea re dash cam is exactly the sort of thing that can make the difference- I'm considering buying one too (work in ins) but just looking for one that gives a decent quality picture without breaking the bank!

[minxthemanx]

I'll just point out that I haven't signed any accident report, as they never asked me for my version.....

[TensionWheelsCoolHeels]

It's not quite that easy - I presume you reported the incident by telephone & that call is recorded- part of the questions asked covers whether you want them to deal with this for you or if you are reporting for info only & dealing yourself. You can withdraw that agreement but you are then taking on any subsequent court action yourself & you'd need to know how to deal with that.

You really need to make a formal complaint & get the matter reviewed to highlight where they've not done the job asked of them. Did you ask for the CCTV to be kept/got the name of the person you spoke to/person who viewed the CCTV footage? That's key, and if they pulled it, watched it & told you about it then there's a chance they have kept it beyond the standard 28/30 days etc. You need to get the ins co to explain what they've done, when, how they've gone about it & copies of whatever they are relying on to make that decision. You can get this dealt with properly but it'll take you being as pushy as possible, challenging them on their decision & making sure they do something urgently about that CCTV footage.

[ottothedog]

Similar story in the papers today. Insurance co finally did their job when the newspaper investigated. Worth a letter?

[WhoTheFuckIsSimon]

Scary isn't it?

Think I might get a dash cam!

[minxthemanx]

Spoke to the manager at Sainsburys today, the guy who originally reviewed the CCTV. He has heard nothing from my insurance company, has received no request for the CCTV. So God only knows who their "3 emails" went to, as I gave them his details. Rang the insurance company and asked to speak to the man handling my case. Was told they would request a call from him within 4 hours. Nothing happened. Rang again. Told that I was definitely on his list of calls, and I would hear from him by the end of the day. Nope. The lovely manager at Sainsburys is incensed that I'm being held liable - he went away to try and find the CCTV but they haven't kept footage from that far back. Because he didn't get a request, it wasn't kept. However, he has offered to give a written statement of what the CCTV showed - that my car parked first, next to an empty bay, and that the other driver arrived later. Somehow I imagine this won't be adequate, but it's worth a try. Seriously hacked off with how much of my time this has taken up.

[Collaborate]

Don't be pessimistic about the impact of the statement from the manager. It will be good corroborative evidence.

You should definitely complain though about their failure to secure the cctv.

[TensionWheelsCoolHeels]

I agree with collaborate's comments - a statement like that isn't as good as the CCTV footage but it's the next best thing. He's got no reason to lie, he's independent & he's willing to help so that should tip this in your favour. If I was her insurer & received a statement like that I'd be telling my PH she's got no chance of proving you caused the damage & we'd not support her stance/fund court action.

Don't be fobbed off tomorrow- if the handler isn't available ask to speak to a manager & tell them you want to make a complaint about the ins co's failure to act quickly on the CCTV & their attempt to settle this when you've told them about the CCTV footage. 3 emails is nonsense- if the 1st didn't get a response they should have followed that up with a call & made sure they had all the right info. All they had to do was get the managers contact name & details from you (or ask you to get them) & request they hold the footage & ask how they need to go about getting a copy. Every company/organisation is different in how they deal with those requests so you need to ask to make sure you get it right.

I know it's a pain but don't give up yet & make an official complaint. It's the best way to achieve what you want in this situation.