What's a 'Deed of Variation'?

[HexBramble]

I've opened the mail this evening and found a large document from one of the main banks. It has the name of a deceased's relative on it and says it's a "Deed of Variation discretionary settlement" and also what looks like forms to see if my tax code needs to be adjusted.

I have no idea what this is. I was close to the relative that died but assumed that everything had gone to their next of kin. This next of kin became power of attorney when my relative became ill with Alzheimer's.

I don't want to to contact the relative in anyway shape or form since they guarded my relative's estate with insane jealousy and I don't want to draw attention to the fact that something was arranged by my relative prior to them getting ill thus making our relationship worse.

Sorry for the ramble - I have no idea what the document is and all banks are shut til morning!

[Unescorted]

A DoV is a change to the original agreement. If it is signed it superceeds the clauses stated as varied in the original agreement / contract.

[Collaborate]

If it relates to the will of the dead relative then it is possible that you might be mentioned din the will, otherwise why send it to you?

Is there an accompanying letter that explains why you're being sent this? How does the deed refer to you, if at all?

[HexBramble]

Thanks and sorry for only now coming back to this. I phoned the bank and they most un helpfully said that many customers had received this letter in error and to discard it. Even more confused, I asked why I should have received it on the first place i.e. Why was my name linked the deceased's on the first place and the advisor couldn't comment. He advised me to get in touch with the person who has PoA - my relative.

So, I did. Relative denied all knowledge and wanted to take the whole letter out of my possession so they could 'sort it out'. I refused and said lied that it has tax implications for me so I'd better hang on to it. Relative text earlier to say that bank told her to tell me to bin it.

I'm still confused though. Why WOULD I have my name given to them in the first place if I wasn't mentioned in her Will? Why haven't I heard anything else?

[HexBramble]

Bump

[goddessofsmallthings]

Power of attorney expired when your aunt died.
,
Pursuant to your other thread, what relation is the relative to you and what relation is s/he to your late aunt?

Hang on to those documents!

Out of interest, is your relative named on the documents as "Her Name Deceased?

[HexBramble]

goddess I'm curious and a bit paranoid. What makes you think that this relative is an Aunt?

[HexBramble]

I'm getting nowhere fast with understanding this.

My aunt passed away in the summer. We were close. Her only surviving relatives are her sister (my Mum), me, my 2 DC and my brother. My Mum has always been very secretive about money - perhaps borne from major insecurities - I don't know. Either way, she hasn't discussed my Aunt's Will with me other than saying that she is furious with the bank for sending me this "Deed of variation" notification and that she has complained. I've tried asking her about this and she stonewalls me by saying "I was with her when she made her Will, everything is left to ME. After my days, it will be left to you and DBro".

When I asked her why would I have received this "Deed of Variation" which to me indicates that the Will has been changed, she just replied with the same answer as above. It's frustrating. I know for a fact that should I ask to see a copy of my Aunt's Will, it would probably start off a load of bad feeling.

I just want to ensure that she is acting in my Aunt's best interests and respecting her wishes. I have a gut feeling that she has altered someone else's Will and totally cutting out a step-relative so I am concerned about this too.

[WellyMummy]

We did a DoV 12 years ago. It was my understanding that they could only be used with the agreement of the beneficiaries involved. Wills are available to purchase - you should be able to buy a copy once probate has been granted.

Please note that this is from personal experience, I'm not a lawyer!

[HexBramble]

Thanks Welly. That's what I understood too - any DoV that affects the beneficiaries has to be agreed by the beneficiaries and their signatures must be obtained on an official document for it to become valid and legal.

Ive agreed and signed for absolutely nothing! Receiving this document from the bank, albeit in error, is the first I've ever heard of it.

[Ememem84]

Do you know who your aunts solicitor was? Or which solicitor drafted the document? If so maybe call them to see if they can shed any light on it?

[HexBramble]

Em it's tempting.
Would they be obliged to let my Mum know? I can imagine she'd go nuclear on me 'interfering'...

[notapizzaeater]

Rather nuclear than fraud ?

[HexBramble]

We have a difficult relationship. I find myself (aged 41) unable to ask her directly. It's only recently that we seem to be getting on. Thus will certainly put an end to it.

[Ememem84]

why would they be obliged to let your mum know? Because she's the executor? sorry if I missed that

I don't think they would because I think that technically their client would be the deceaseds estate. If your mums the executor she's only acting for and on behalf of the estate. I think. I'm not a lawyer.

I'd be doing one or all of the following:

Look up the solicitor who drafted the document. If it's real not saying at all that it's a forgery there should be the name of the firm on the front page. Look them up online. Check to see if they're registered by the s r a.

Call solicitors. Just their general number and ask for someone to ring re the case. Again if it's real they will do this.

Tell your mum you'll sign. But that you need a solicitor to look at it first so you understand it and how if affects your rights etc.

[ottothedog]

Why arent you happy with the banks explanation that it was sent in error to a large number of people?

[ottothedog]

Sorry that sounds abrupt
Genuine q tho. I would take that explanation as sounding entirely likely.

[HexBramble]

Otto - because I don't know why my name would be linked to the deceased's name in the first instance IYSWIM.

[fastdaytears]

You can get a copy of the Will very easily as linked above but a deed of variation isn't public. Have a look at the will and see if you're named (other than in substitution for your mum). If you are, your mum can't vary the will without you being involved (or not to give away anything due to you anyway). If you're not then she can do what she likes.

The solicitor will just direct you to the probate registry website and will tell your mum you called.

Is your mum over the inheritance tax threshold (ie is she worth £325k or more without this inheritance)? If she is and you want my guess, she's done a deed of variation putting the money into trust for her and you which is a tax planning thing and really standard. It is personal to her though so if she's a bit moody at the best of times she probably won't tell you.

[Rangirl]

In Scotland the Deed of Variation only has to be signed by person giving up an entitlement and not be all beneficiaries

[Ricardian]

I think a lot of people are missing the OP's point.

If the OP isn't named in the will, then any deed of variation that might arise is no more her problem than it is my dog's problem if I had a dog. Therefore the "accidental" part doesn't cut it, because why is her name linked to the estate in question in order for the "accident" to occur?

If the OP is named in the will, then a deed of variation may or may not require her signature (it requires the signature of everyone affected, not all beneficiaries) but it's a little odd that it should have been sent out if a DoV were not, in fact, being drawn up?

The business about the tax code is particularly odd. You don't pay income tax on inheritances, but you do pay income tax on distributed income from invested inheritances; if someone puts money in trust with the income payable to you, that money is taxable as income.

But if you're 41, you can dissolve such trusts; executors cannot, for example, put money left to an adult beneficiary into a trust over the head of the beneficiary - the classic "oh, they'll spend it all" - whether the deceased wants it or not, because the beneficiary can simply have the trust dissolved (this is not legal advice, reality is more complex, there are exceptions, etc etc).

So the whole thing is most odd. Over on MSE's fascinating death and probate board, there's a bizarre story of an elderly executor who has completely misinterpreted a will that asks her to sell property and distribute the proceeds as sell property and keep the proceeds, and much fun is ensuing.

OP, the power of attorney is irrelevant: it ceases with death. You need to investigate what's going on because it all sounds very, very odd. Who is the executor, by the way, your mother or the bank?

[fastdaytears]

Ricardian the most likely thing will be though that it was the mother's inheritance which has been put in trust for the OP (and some other people) in which case it can all be done without her input. Bank will have had to run AML checks and might have thought tax code helpful with that, or might be advising on whether to distribute any income in which case tax code again useful.

[Ricardian]

But fastdaytears, then it isn't an error, is it?

And you don't go around asking random third parties for their tax code without explaining why, surely?

[fastdaytears]

There is an error because the bank isn't a trustee and ploughed on with all this without the mum agreeing to the OP being contacted and is now back tracking. Why a bank is even involved I don't know, but the presumably thought the mum had already notified the new beneficiaries.