Going to court for custody

[slithytove]

Posted in chat so it gets deleted, as am posting for a friend. I will likely be a witness if this goes to court.

Basically, they have a child. Child used to stay with dad every second weekend. Lives about 1.5 hours away on public transport. Dad doesn't drive.

Contact has now been reduced by mum to supervised contact in child's home town every second weekend.

This is because allegedly.

At dads there is no heating, child sleeps on sofa with dad
Dad left child on street while he went back up to flat
Dad doesn't brush hair (needs brushing daily to avoid dreads) or give gloves/hat in cold weather
More that I am unaware of

On the first supervised visit, dad pulled at child hurting their hand, and pushed mums partner over. Police were involved.

Mum wants to stick with supervised visits until dad has a proper place to live and build up trust. Dad wants to go to court.

Can anyone tell me what might happen if this went to court?

[DawnMumsnet]

Hi, we're moving this thread over to our Legals Matters topic now, at the OP's request.

[slithytove]

Thanks dawn

Anyone in the know about family court?

[Micah]

It's really hard to say without knowing both sides of the story.

Your friend is going to have to prove her ex is truly neglectful, abusive, or a danger to the child.

Many dads struggle with living space following a split as there simply isn't the money to fund two places. Children on sofa isn't a cause for concern. Forgetting gloves and hat in cold weather doesn't really sound like neglect either.

Isn't mediation a more normal first step?

[merrywindow]

No experience myself so hopefully someone knowledgeable will be along. However in my friend's case, both sides presented their evidence. Cafcass were then ordered to interview the children at home and try to establish what was best. Judge then made a ruling based on that. So assuming it gets to court it will probably hinge on the quality of any evidence of abuse/neglect and the opinion of the Cafcass rep.

[slithytove]

Mediation has been tried and failed. The police incident and the leaving the child on the street happened after that.

There are records of both the above.

Should a seven year old be sleeping on the sofa with dad?

There are also incidents of child being brought back late for school on Monday, dad refusing to return child.

Dad used to see child alternate weekends, but his schedule changed and now he can't do pick ups on Friday night. His solution is that mum brings child (once she has finished work at 6) or that child goes to him every Saturday instead of alternate. This is what mum is worried that court will grant, which will mean she has no family time.

Would court do this?

[slithytove]

Micah, it's obviusly irrelevant to contact, but dad isn't funding anything for the child. Let alone 2 places. Mum pays for everything and asks for nothing.

[slithytove]

Wrt to the gloves, the child rang mum crying as was so cold.

Dad was wearing gloves. Mum offered to collect but child said "no I don't want to upset daddy"

Whoever is right, this situation is really damaging the child.

[slithytove]

Any more responses would be great as my friend is in bits over this today, dad is making threat after threat and I think it's just become too much. Hence me trying to help (with her permission)

[Micah]

So the mum is paying for her ex's flat?

She needs to stop that.

I meant that in a separation mum usually keeps the family home. Dad has to set up from scratch, with no chance to save a deposit etc. DH spent a year on his mums sofa with the kids on camp beds because he couldn't afford the deposit on a rental place suitable for the kids.

I've sent my 7 year old without gloves before . They were crying by the time we got to school. I just plain forgot, and by the time they started winging about the cold we were too far to go back. I've left them on the street while I nip back into the house for forgotten school bag/ PE kit.

Like I said, no-ones really going to be able to give you advice over the internet. The no gloves sleeping on the sofa thing may just be dad trying to to do his best- maybe he didn't have gloves, or it may be indicative that he doesn't care about the childs welfare. It might be mum nitpicking over tiny things and trying to get back at dad.

Like pp said, CAFCASS and court are probably the best people to decide at this point.

[Micah]

If he's threatening or harassing her she needs to get a solicitor and figure out what action to take.

In fact make sure she has a solicitor full stop.

[slithytove]

Ex pays for himself, mum pays for herself and child. I don't see that he can't save up and buy child a little bed of their own, hell even a blow up, and he sleeps on the sofa alone.

There was no family home. They rented. All ties were cut when they split (not married) bar child.

She does have a solicitor, it's difficult as he gets legal aid so her costs are spiralling in response.

The gloves thing is a pattern of tiny neglect which adds up. Like never brushing hair which comes back dreaded, causing school to be missed, leaving them on the street alone, letting them watch 18 movies (child came back saying "I'll kill you". It sounds small but added together it's not.

The child has cried in front of me about "being stupid" in school on Mondays because they are so tired.

Really appreciate your replies.

[slithytove]

Dad is sending messages to all of mums friends and family including me, bad mouthing mum and threatening to blacken her name in court if we don't reply.

[merrywindow]

She really needs advice from her solicitor and to ignore his nonsense until her sol tells her how/if to reply. And keep his texts/emails as evidence.

In my friend's case the abusive ex badmouthed her and even got some of her own relatives on side. I was asked to provide a letter as a witness (I didn't have to go to court) and character reference for her. I am no-one of note, just a housewife/her friend. Nonetheless, the judge did not take the ex's word for it, took my letter into account and instructed Cafcass. As a result my friend got custody despite the ex's bile. Judges are not stupid, they have seen their share of narcissists. They will try to act in the children's best interests and not look favourably on game players and manipulators. Sympathies to your friend, I'm sure this is a v distressing time

[HeadDoctor]

Make sure they keep the messages. She should report him for harrassment.

[slithytove]

Thank you , that gives me little bit of hope.

She is absolutely broken today.

[slithytove]

Merry, do you know what visitation your friends ex got?

My friend doesn't want to limit contact, but she doesn't want to fear for her Dcs wellbeing, and nor does she want to lose her weekend with dc through no fault of her own.

If it makes a difference, the dad chose to move 1.5 hours away from where his child lives, knowing he doesn't drive.

[HeadDoctor]

IME the courts are reluctant to leave one parent without a weekend. I don't think your friends ex has a strong case to be honest, I don't think she needs to worry.

[slithytove]

Even though as it stands the dad doesn't have a full weekend due to his changed schedule? Which will not be an issue come June.

[slithytove]

He is now saying that mum is " rough with" and "hurts" dc.
Nasty man.

[Nowfeeltheneedtopost]

OP, I'm not sure anyone on here can really help you or your friend. What you are describing in terms of leaving a child on the street and causing injury is obviously unlikely to be acceptable to courts. However, my experience in these situations is that there are always two sides to any story and your friend's child's dad may well paint a different picture. I'm not sure how anyone on a Internet forum can reassure you that one is more accurate than the other. I really don't mean to be unhelpful but I'm not sure what you are trying to get from this post.

[slithytove]

To be able to reassure my friend that court won't totally screw her over.

I have no experience of it, and she is just very negative right now.

Obviously I don't know what goes on behind closed doors, but I've never seen mum be rough with dc. I have seen with my own eyes dad behaving questionably.

[HeadDoctor]

If father genuinely has concerns then he should be raising it with the appropriate authorities. No amount of reassurance from Internet ransoms will be any good. People do end up feeling screwed over by the court process all the time.

[slithytove]

Ok, thank you all for replies

[merrywindow]

slithytove - probably not comparable situation as my friend's children are in their teens and were able to tell Cafcass exactly what was going on and that they really didn't want to see their father. My friend got sole custody and it was left that the children could initiate contact with their father themselves if/when they wanted. My friend encouraged them to see him in a neutral situation alternate Saturdays (eg, shopping trip), which they went along with. However the dad soon got bored of this and now hasn't seen them in over a year. He moved a couple of hours away.

As others have said, none of us here can know what will happen in your friends case. She needs to get advice from her sol, keep all evidence and if it goes to court be prepared for things to move at snail pace and cost a lot.

[tracyreader]

If the kid is doing badly at school on Mondays with her Dad because of tiredness, can you get a statement from the teacher about that?