£195 TFL Fine - I wasn't driving and had sold the car.

[FineHelpPlease]

All advice welcome please.

I sold my car 8 months ago on ebay (couldn't afford to fix it and run it) it was sold for under £1000 due to repairs needed.

I stupidly gave the registration document to the buyer as requested instead of completing this myself. (Buyer paid cash on collection).

Three months later the car incurred a penalty charge due to their poor driving (photo unfortunately just shows the car. We're different sexes and races so a photo of the driver would have proved it wasn't myself). They registered the car not in my name finally two weeks after the incident.

This was in London - 200 miles from where I live.

I made the requested 'representation' to Transport For London, with all the evidence I had: showing screenshots of the ebay listing, the messages between the seller and myself arranging the collection - with the sellers full name, home number and address. TFL replied asking for the ebay invoice which I sent them a screenshot of this. They then rejected my representation stating it doesn't prove it was this car (by now the listing was no longer active along with the photos showing the registration. Although the description is the same car and DVLA records would show I didn't own any other car of this type, or any other type. -I haven't been able to afford to run a car since!).

I can't afford to pay the requested £195! by the end of this month. With the ebay invoice and now this fine I've ended-up selling the car for just a few hundred (hindsight a great thing and scrapping it would have been less hassle for the same price).

The TFL letter states if I don't pay, it will go to court. I can only contest it under 3 grounds; not receiving the penalty notice - which I obviously did receive. Not receiving a rejection notice after making the representation - which I did receive- requesting the ebay invoice and finally they didn't respond to my appeal -of which they did.

The letter states not paying, they will register the amount as a debt, recover money through county court and obtain an order basically sending baliffs to my house.

Please advise, is there anything I can do?

(Thank you for reading this long post)

[ApplebyMennym]

What a shitty situation OP.

Do you have any kind of proof that you weren't anywhere near London at that time? Were you at work, or somewhere you had to sign in?

I have just read this to dh and he - still fuming over our congestion charge fee from several months ago which he thinks we shouldn't have had to pay - was very quick to jump to the "TFL are ARSEHOLES" stance. But really they're just as stuck as you. They don't have proof that it's not you, or that it's not your car anymore.

It sucks, I'm so sorry.

[FineHelpPlease]

Thank you for reading - I agree with your DH

Unfortunately I wasn't at work but have a toddler at nursery -in 3 hours a day and explained to TFL I couldn't drop DC off at nursery, drive 200 miles to London, drive around badly to incur a fine and then back 200 miles, all in 3 hours to collect!

I could remember going to a shop locally on this day (-odd incident and related the story on Facebook ) but couldn't find the receipt.

On reading your post I have just checked online banking which shows 3! transactions in shops (bargain supermarket food shopping) and states the shop with location -all 200 miles away from London. So I can prove I wasn't in London on this day but from the letter I have the choice to pay or have this order made in court and baliffs sent round

Does anyone know how I can contest this fine at all please?

[nothernexposure]

There's a site called Pepipoo which is great for advice on parking fines etc. It might be worth having a look of joining for some advice as it's free and could save you £195 and a whole load of stress.

[Namechangearoonie123]

You've got a far bigger problem than this fine, without letting dvla know you're not the registered keeper you could get endless fines and problems.

You must contact dvla, I think it's a criminal offense to not send the V5 back.

[Middleagedmotheroftwo]

I would go to the CAB and ask for advice. Why on earth didn't you tell the DVLA you'd sold the car? What if it had been involved in an accident and killed someone?

[FineHelpPlease]

Thank you, have had a look at Pepipoo, will join and ask for advice.

Last two posters - as I mentioned in my original post hindsight is a great thing. Buyer asked for the document and said they'd send it off. Naively I didn't question it, first car I've sold and wanted it sold before I had to renew the tax on a non-driveable car (and not having the funds to do so. Or off-road parking to SORN). As already mentioned, buyer finally registered the car in their name two weeks after the event. Unfortunately now working full-time so can't speak with CAB.

TFL have a licence to print money!

[Namechangearoonie123]

Ok, but those 3 months you are liable for.

Tfl are bastards but not for this .

Anyone could just give the car to a dodgy mate or drive it themselves and commit loads of crime and then sell it to someone unwitting.

There is no way the person you sold the car to is going to own up to this - if they were straight up they would have registered the car in their name immediately.

And right now you don't know how dodgy they are and what else they did before registering the car in their name.

I strongly urge you to go into a police station and ask them to check if there's any outstanding issues with that car from the period of time it was still legally yours.

[FineHelpPlease]

Thanks but I really don't want any more fines or more hassle. Will just have to hope now 5 months have passed since they registered the car they didn't get up to anything else in it. (I know they bought it to do a quick fix and export).

Anyway looks like the baliffs will be round to help themselves whilst I'm at work. Very recently started full-time work and have budgeted down to the last penny nursery, food shopping, bills and train fares and don't have a spare c£200 until I'm paid in July.

Can't believe I have to pay this. If only TFL took a photo of the actual driver as with speed cameras!

[Namechangearoonie123]

No, I should have been clear. You shouldn't pay this as it can be seen as admitting liability.

What happens if something else happened involving your car that day?

And the police then investigate it ?

You need to disasociate yourself from anything that happened in that time. Right now that event is all you know.

They clearly didn't do what they said they were going to do by exporting it so you don't know what happened in that period
There won't be any bailiffs without a judgement. Go to court, explain, provide proof.

[duchesse]

Bailiffs can't come into your house against your will. They may turn up and be very persuasive but they can only come in if you invite them. So don't invite them in! Conduct any necessary business with them on the doorstep and refuse to sign anything!

[Floralnomad]

What did they do to make the charge £195 or have you ignored previous requests for payment ? I got a fine from TFL for doing an illegal u turn ( I didn't realise I wasn't allowed ) and it was only £35 ( I think) if you paid within a week then doubled and then got astronomical after that . The fine also came within a week of the offence .

[FineHelpPlease]

Thank you, I didn't realise I could make another 'representation' in court. (Confused with the 3 reasons given to object but realise that means before it gets to court).
Thanks ref. Baliffs advice. Hate the thought of them coming round especially potentially upsetting DC. How do they get the money if you don't let them in? Surely they don't just keep arriving and asking to come in? Can they be issued with some sort of 'warrant' to force entry?
I'm tempted to go to court especially as can't pay in the 21days demanded (and don't want to pay when I didn't do it!).
It was just for partially stopping in a yellow box junction -either in a traffic queue or lights stopping traffic flow, not sure but photo shows back wheels of car on yellow box.
It was originally 60. I advised had sold the car etc. They requested eBay invoice. Then said said shots I sent from eBay didn't show. Rejected representation. Doubled fine. I resent screenshots, rejected this 'represntation'. The extra 75 from 120 assume is 'admin'? for taking it to court. Other worry is the cost goes up again if court doesn't accept my evidence; court fees, baliff fees etc.
Just what I don't need.

[duchesse]

Just a thought but can you google your listing and get the cached version? Did your listing have the number plate clearly visible?

[duchesse]

with bailiffs [[https://www.gov.uk/your-rights-bailiffs/what-you-can-do-when-a-bailiff-visits]], from the government's own website.

[duchesse]

Damn. Handling bailiffs. It seems they can actually force their way in extreme circumstances but hopefully it will not come to that. Have you contacted your MP yet? MPs can be strangely persuasive.

[duchesse]

Basically TfL wants their money and the only chance they have of getting it by the sounds of it is by harassing you. They are not going to be a help. Can you email Boris direct?

[duchesse]

You can take this to the Ombudsman as well I think.