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She says they dont want to see him...(9 Posts)
This is an almost last ditch attempt to try get some help and advice here. My partner hasn't been allowed to see his children for almost 3 years. The last court session- a year ago... she told the court they don't want to see him, they were aged 8 & 12 (despite a very close relationship he had with them!). The courts then said well if that's the case we need to speak with the children, they did. Now lets bear this in mind that - the reason for him leaving the 10+ marriage and very solid home was that she had an affair, and confessed cause she was pregnant! Oh and let me just mention it was not my partners as he has had proof - the snip! And he had a test to prove that not in a million years was it his! He stood by her and they decided to have an termination, oh this was in a private clinic that my partner (her then husband) actually paid for.
They tried to work things out for the sake of the children, but who can live with that? They divorced, she kicked him out of HIS house, took full control of his business and oh absorbed his share of the house too to pay for the children's private education. Oh back to original story.......
She drove the children to the court which I am certain, conversations were surely made to blacken the emotions of the children towards their father. The courts then suggested that due to the nature of the childrens minds that it would be advised that they seek professional evaluations. The mother suggested a professional that she knew!
It was allowed that the father can make only contact in the forms of ONE LETTER EVERY QUARTER, and a Christmas/birthday cards. He is NOT allowed to ask invasive questions, basically just is allowed to waffle. These cards/letters take my partner some 3 days to put together, the emotional torment tears a hole in my heart. I am a mother to an 12 year old boy, who's father abducted for 6 weeks - yet I allow him access to see his son when he wants. WHAT PARENT HAS THE RIGHTS TO SAY YOU CANNOT SEE YOUR MOTHER/FATHER?
I am writing this as my partner has taken just about all he can, we hardly discuss his children because its just so painful. It reduces ME to tears so its unbearable to think that after years of battles with a woman who has so much control over her children that we seem to be loosing. He has spent a small fortune and the money pit has dried, he has come to this last ditch attempt to see his kids. Just to talk to them, see them and tell them YES I DO LOVE U, he is desperate to see them. HE has don't nothing wrong other than leave due to her selfish behaviour when he was devoted to his marriage and his family. His loyalty was outstanding, I have never met a man so kind. I want him to see his children. They have NEVER responded to any of the letters, cards or advent calendars he has sent. Oh and yes he pays his maintenance and has a regular savings account set up for the children.
She even stooped so low to report him to the police because she thought she saw him on the estate driving past her house, and he happened to be in the same supermarket at the same time as her! He was not allowed to say hi to his son who was with here at the time. He had to walk the other way just so they didn't see him.
Please can anyone point us in one more direction..the last one really? Any positive comments and advice will be thoroughly appreciated Thanks x
Oh Zara what a heartbreaking story. From a legal perspective, I have nothing, I only wish to offer you some moral support that under extremely challenging circumstances, you both are doing everything right.
I read this book called Divorce Poison and it talks about the letting go phase whether that's chosen or enforced upon you. It's so sad, but the letters, cards, etc, don't stop that. Keep photocopies of them actually, as the kids get older they may wish to initiate contact themselves and need to know that the door is always open. Unfortunately, these poor kids are mirroring their mother's behaviour/attitude. So cruel. Many of us here suffer these situations in varying degrees, but on the plus side, you sound like a very close couple who are very much there for each other. That is something to take comfort in. Hugs.
Legally, hopefully someone experienced can advise.
If he is going to try for more contact he needs to be realistic about his part in whatever has gone on. Indirect contact in which he is "not allowed to ask invasive questions" suggests to me (and obviously I could be wrong) that the courts had concerns that he was saying things to the children about their mother - did he tell the children "his side" of the divorce story or something?
Also, if she called the police because she saw him in the supermarket this suggests to me that there is some form of non-molestation order or similar in force - is there?
Approaching with the attitude that he is 100% the victim and is entirely blameless is (a) not likely to be the case and (b) even if it is the case, is not likely to persuade the courts that their earlier concerns have been addressed.
I think he needs to consider what the courts thought before about the children's best interests, and see what he can do to show that this has changed even if he disagreed with it, then speak to a solicitor about upping the indirect contact to direct contact - maybe at a supervised contact centre? Good luck with whatever he decides.
Not a legal,person, but I'm really not sure how she managed to wangle 'his' business off him..... Have you questioned this? There are definately inconsistencies in his situation, as lady Julian has mentioned.
On an emotional level, I know that this situation is heartbreaking for your dp, and in fact all of you. I was (in the position of ) your daughter many years ago, and it was awful. However adults make up their own minds,many children know in their hearts what their dad was like, especially if they had up to 10 years of him. They are subject to their mother, they are not free to respond to him, but I am sure that they will want to when they are older.
Today's Telegraph has a story of a mother whose 11 and16 year old sons were seized by police on Christmas day and taken to live with their father against their will and not allowed much contact with their mother except at a contact centre (they have lived with only the mother for years). They had refused to see him for ages because they did not want to (that is one side of the story). Now that is rare. It is not common for the resident parent to lose residence of the children because the children refuse to see the non resident parent.
Is there anything to stiop your partner going to all the school parents' evenings, sports days, concerts and all that kind of thing? Presumably not, so why not both start going to those?
I note that the Telegraph story is by Christopher Booker. This is the same journalist that gave us the story that Essex social services obtained a High Court order against an Italian woman forcing a Caesarean so that they could take her child and have it adopted due to the woman having a panic attack. Just about every single "fact" in that story was wrong. I would treat anything he says about such matters with considerable caution.
Did he have legal representation? If so, it reads like there were issues that maybe weren't addressed, such as his ex wife's implacable hostility. Was the choice of expert disputed or the expert cross examined on knowing the ex wife personally?
It is difficult. In my experience, it is usually possible to tell when children are saying what they really feel and when they are saying what their mother wants to hear.
I also have experience of older children turning their backs on their mothers when they discover, in later life, just how hard their father tried to maintain meaningful contact and how the mothers thwarted those attempts.
Hi everyone, thank you for all your replies. I have just read them all out to my partner and we have digested the response. Yes he has had legal representation throughout all the disputes but eventually found that the then solicitor seem to be loosing the fight so due to cost and the bank drying up due to fees it seemed to be running dry. I also have great understanding of this when my x husb took me to court when he ran off with my then 4 year old!!
As far as the child 'Relate' councellor, it appears that as he knew the wife he seemed to side with her and has not encouraged any forthcoming meetings with father and sons. But what is a father to do when she told the judge that she didn't want their father to make extra contact, no school meetings, events, like I said he has to stick the rules layed down by what she suggested and the judge agreed. He was not even allowed to say Hi to his son when he saw them in the supermarket for fear of her running to the police saying he intimidated her. SHE has the upper hand here, and my partner is almost a broken man. This woman has no real reason to extinguish their father from their lives like she has. He is not violent, not a criminal, in fact he is a very good man. What man sticks by his wifes side when she confesses to an affair and pregnancy? No many, and all to keep his family together.
The fact that she took the business, Yes she did, they were in a partnership. She told him to leave the marital home. She had the kids so he had no choice, he had to leave. When it came to the agreement of the house, she paid him off the mortgage to the house that HE bought! The money that he received from the pay off she then hounded him and intimidating him pay for the kids to continue their private education saying it would destroy them to leave, yet she couldn't finance the terms. He ended up giving her back the money he got in order to finance the education. Only to find later the children were eventually moved to a state school !
I do have experience of women who intimidate the x husbands. My sister has made her x husbands contact with his children such a trauma that he had finally broken down to say ok you win, I will see the girls when they are 16. This is shocking, why do women do this?
I want to know how he can see his kids, just lets start with small steps here. They don't know why he left (her affair/pregnancy), they were very young and he hasn't had the chance to talk to them to just say that he loves them, let alone anything else. She is clearly brain washing them of any emotional pull towards their father to a point where they wrote him a letter saying some incredibly hurtful things, that clearly were written under influence. Words that a child wouldn't say! I am sure that she had been looking over their shoulders, as she was at all the childrens meetings.
Where do we go from here? I refuse to give up to this bi* but my partner is loosing the fight as its breaking him in half. I have never met her, and its a natural emotion to dislike the partners x's, but this woman is a huge exception to this rule. She cannot call herself a mother !!!!!
I don't understand why CAFCASS weren't instructed to undertake a wishes and feelings report with your children. They are independent of any party and a judge generally speaking will put a great deal of emphasis on their recommendations before issuing an order, particularly with children of their age. Under no circumstances should one party be allowed to bring in their own professional. it seems to me the court in question has overlooked some very fundamental processes and I would suggest you make an official complaint.
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