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Legal matters

Caution for a 17 yo?

22 replies

ShiftyFades · 30/07/2013 14:23

A friend's son, C, had a row with his long term girlfriend and it got out of hand resulting in him pushing her.
Obviously he's an idiot for doing that, despite a back story and depression.
He has been told by the police that they will caution him.
I'm concerned that this will damage his future job prospects as he'd like to a a sports teacher in some format, likely to want to work with children. An enhanced CRB will show a caution for assault . I'm pretty sure most clubs / schools wouldn't accept that.

I looked on Gov.uk website and it says a caution is for over 18s and 10-17yo should get a reprimand or a warning. Or, if they deem it to be serious, they can of course charge him.

I told him to check what they were planning to do, hoping he'd confused caution with warning, and today they've said it will be a caution and they (the police) can do what they like. This was back up by the solicitor I advised him to ask for.

The police are awaiting psychology reports (C has recently been diagnosed with depression) before formally giving him the caution.

Is this right? Despite the info on gov.uk, the police can issue a caution to a youth?

I'm furious with him over this bit wouldn't want to see his life's ambition ruined by his idiocy in his teenage years. Sad

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anna891 · 30/07/2013 15:02

Not sure, I think they can caution him. He could refuse to accept a caution though. Its unlikely to be taken to court.
Just make sure he keeps away from the girl.

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Madamecastafiore · 30/07/2013 15:04

Idiocy or the start of a history of being the perpetrator of domestic violence???

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ShiftyFades · 30/07/2013 15:51

Well that I don't know. He's had an awful childhood and has witnessed plenty of abuse (not much of it physical but plenty of verbal / emotional and financial) for much of his formative years (from his step father)
He's finally getting help and the step father has been gone for a couple of years.
He has deep-seeded hatred for his mum who chose step dad over him and he had to live with his grandparents for a couple of years for his own safety (step dad hit him when angry)

It's just such a sorry mess.

I worry for C, he used to be such a lovely boy Sad

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Madamecastafiore · 30/07/2013 18:09

Maybe if the law had been involved with his step father at an early age then he wouldn't have gone on to be such a prolific abuser and effect so many lives.

Just because you have MH issues you are not immune to the law (unless under section in some instances) and people should be aware that there is no excuse for this kind of behaviour.

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CajaDeLaMemoria · 30/07/2013 18:12

He can be cautioned at 18 if the offence warrants it. Assault does.

I'd work on getting him help to control this. It may well end his teaching hopes, unfortunately, but if he can show the serious steps he's taken to correct his behaviour, he gives himself a fighting chance.

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RedHelenB · 30/07/2013 18:23

Must have been more than a push too!

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ShiftyFades · 30/07/2013 18:30

Apparently it was a push. Girlfriend pushed him and he retaliated by pushing her back. It happened at her home and she wasn't injured / marked.
Her parents are (understandably) instrumental in her pressing charges.

I wish my friend had sorted her husband out. I begged her on several occasions, even got the DV branch to talk to her Sad

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ShiftyFades · 30/07/2013 18:32

Caja, he's not 18, he's 17, can he still be cautioned? I read it should be a reprimand / warning on the gov.uk site.

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CajaDeLaMemoria · 30/07/2013 18:37

Sorry, I meant to write below 18.

The gov.uk site is right in very simple circumstances, but it's quite misleading here. For most offences, an under 18 would be given a reprimand/warning. For some offences, including assault and shoplifting for example, a caution can be given to a minor.

The caution will then remain on an enhanced CRB, so if he wants to work with children, he'll have to declare it. That's why it looks better if he does some immediate work to rectify this - it looks like he's seen a lot of bad things, and anger management may be appropriate, along with therapy. If he is referred to the probation service, they may have suggestions, too.

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RedHelenB · 30/07/2013 18:44

Personally I wouldn't accept a caution under those circumstances, given that he was pushed first. However, the fact that there is police involvement will tarnish a crb check.

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RedHelenB · 30/07/2013 18:45

Is his girlfriend getting cautioned too?

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Tiredtrout · 30/07/2013 18:46

Sorry shifty, I think your looking at the wrong place for apportioning blame regarding C. It counts as a dv assault so the police have a positive intervention policy, that means they have to act if an offence is disclosed. I'm pretty sure that something would have happened prior to his girlfriend that would make her push him away.

People are treated as adults by the police if they have used up all the warnings and reprimands available to them. Also at his age the file would be assessed in most areas by the youth offending team and the cps. A caution is only available if the offence is admitted, and the caution is accepted

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ShiftyFades · 30/07/2013 18:55

He hasn't pressed charges against her so she's not being given a caution.
I'm not sure if he's had a reprimand / warning before. I know the police have spoken to him (for underage drinking in the local park with his friends) but I didn't think anything further had been carried out.

I have begged my friend to get him help before now but she had plenty of lame excuses and was too focussed on her partner to really spend any time trying to help her children. It's a sorry state of affairs. I knew C would end up in trouble, hearing your step dad call your mother an f'ing c* doesn't implant respectful ways.

He's been referred to a psychologist by SS, I will suggest anger management.

I don't want him to turn into the type of man my friend was married to Confused

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PlatinumStart · 30/07/2013 18:57

Reprimands and warnings have been abolished (legal aid sentencing and punishment of offenders act 2012) - replaced by youth cautions, so they are an appropriate disposal.

He can refuse to accept a caution and the police/CPS can choose to prosecute if they so wish. Obviously girlfriend would need to give evidence to secure a conviction. I'm not commenting in the ethics but I wouldn't be recommending accepting the caution if it was my son.

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ShiftyFades · 30/07/2013 18:58

I will take him out for a chat, try and get more details of that night (it was months ago!). I will also tell him to start the "so I did this to overcome my problems" process.

Ironically, his stepdad had a stepdad who was abusive....

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ShiftyFades · 30/07/2013 19:06

Thank you Platinum, that's very helpful.
I've been on the "don't accept it" side, but it is risky.
I've heard a rumour that they are seeing each other again ConfusedConfusedConfused
Obviously her parents don't know ConfusedConfusedConfused

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CajaDeLaMemoria · 30/07/2013 20:15

I'd just come back to enquire about when this happened, as I remembered the 2012 abolishment.

Has he talked to his solicitor about what would happen if he rejects the caution? He'd need solid advice, as if he is prosecuted, that would damage his future career a lot more.

It doesn't seem that he denies pushing her, either, so he may already have incriminated himself in taped interviews.

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ShiftyFades · 30/07/2013 20:56

He's been denying it to his family until last night. Personally, I believed he had done something.

What seems wrong about this is the lack of any parental / legal guidance until now.
He was held for 11 hrs when it happened (and must have been interviewed) and was there last week to be interviewed and cautioned but they sent him away until today.

Not sure when it actually happened, maybe April this year?

I'd have thought they couldn't interview a minor without a parent / solicitor?

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Tiredtrout · 30/07/2013 21:14

At 17 it's his choice on whether he would have wanted an appropriate adult there and it wouldn't have to be a parent. It would also have been his choice if he wanted legal representation which would have been offered to him

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ShiftyFades · 30/07/2013 22:00

Oh I didn't realise that. He's a silly boy for not getting an adult to be with him.
Thank you Smile

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betterthanever · 30/07/2013 22:37

I hope he gets the help he needs, his back story sounds like that of my exp and it didn't end well for me.
It is good to see you are supporting him but I hope it extends to more than getting him off a caution - maybe a caution may help him move forward and understand that his actions have consequences, no matter what he has had to suffer in the past which is terrible. I felt very sorry for my exp - but he still causes myself and now my DS great upset and I would have thought hurts himself very deeply. Had he faced consequences earlier on his life he may not be so destructive to others and himself now. It's just a thought, I know your intentions are good.

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PlatinumStart · 31/07/2013 19:04

Again, without commenting on the ethics, if they are seeing each other again there's is extremely unlikely that the cps will secure a conviction.

I feel thats a terrible comment to make if he is madameC suggested at the start of a history of DV but on the other hand sometimes people (esp 17 year old boys) make mistakes that they can move in from if they're not stigmatized and given a second chance

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