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Gaining custody of a sibling

(22 Posts)
Ducklings45 Sat 23-Mar-13 16:15:45

Has anyone got any information on this?

I can't go into details but wondered what the chances are of a siing gaining custody of their much younger siblings.

What if there were not enough bedrooms, would it go against them or could they still let it happen?

MrsSham Sat 23-Mar-13 16:22:27

It is possible in terms of kinship care if a care order where in place, I'm not sure it would happen in a family or civil law circumstances. is there any social care involvement?

MrsSham Sat 23-Mar-13 16:30:26

Contact the family rights group here for information, it may appear to be aimed at mostly grandparents, as that is who mostly steps forward to care for children, if needed, but the should be able to advice you on aspects of the law and practicalities like bedrooms etc. HTH

BackforGood Sat 23-Mar-13 16:46:50

IME (limited) if minors need to be found new homes, then social services are delighted to find a relative who can step in to support the youngsters.

izzyizin Sat 23-Mar-13 17:01:54

More information is needed. How many siblings are there? If the youngest sibling is under school age, what childcare does the older sibling intend to provideif they are working?

Is the older sibling an adult and can they demonstrate they can provide adequate care for their younger siblings, albeit in somewhat cramped conditions, through having full assumed care of them before - perhaps in the temporary absence of the parents?

Are both parents willing to consent to the older sibling applying for a residence order in respect of their younger siblings?

Ducklings45 Sat 23-Mar-13 19:49:00

Children are 4 and 5, both at school. Both parents are willing to 'hand over' the care so to speak, they had been practically brought up by older sibling until sibling moved out and now all parties want to reunite the girls with their big sister.

Only issue is, with only one bedroom, the girls could share but older siig would either have to be on the floor / on a camp bed in the lounge. Would this be a problem?

MrsSham Sat 23-Mar-13 20:23:20

How old is the older sibling?

If all are in agreement a residence order could be applied for with the birth parents consent.

Could the older sibling move or go on LA housing list, possibly social care could support with this.

Ducklings45 Sat 23-Mar-13 21:21:34

Older sibling is 25 and is in a stable job with guaranteed holidays that conincide with the children.

She could go on the housing list but has just bought her own flat soap guessing the application would be denied!

MrsSham Sat 23-Mar-13 21:45:06

I'm not sure I think the family rights group I linked up thread would advice you about home conditions and if social care where involved you could ask the children's social worker or contact a solicitor. But I don't think it is totaly out of the question, there are lots of ways around the housing issue if it would prevent a resident order. Maybe rent a larger property and rent flat out,snell flat and rent a larger property, Or upsize if its financially viable.

I had my own dd on a one bedroom flat, I gave her the bedroom, which was relatively large and I bought a decent bed sofa from ikea, the base was fully sprung with a thick foam mattress that converted into sofa seats. It was never an issue to sleep on.

I know a father who lives in a one bedroom flat and he has two children who stay at his regularly, he has put up a partition wall in the bedroom for kids to have own space.

So there are ways around it, I'm just not sure how much of a sticking point it would be for the courts, but I think if its in the children's best interest then it is worth looking into all your options.

izzyizin Sun 24-Mar-13 02:55:36

One adult female and her 2 small female siblings in one bedroom? Or the dc in a clearly designated bedroom with their older sister on a pullout bed in the living room? I can't see this would present a bar to a residence order being granted as it's presumably the intention of the older sibling to trade up to a bigger apartment/house as and when her circumstances permit which is no different from the norm for, or aspirations of, many single parent families living in similar conditions.

However, it's my understanding that if a relative other than a parent wishes to seek a residence order in respect of dc, it's a requirement that the child/ren shoud have lived with them for a period of not less than one year before application can be made.

If this is the case, and if the dps are willing and there's no SS involvement or Court order to preclude any such arrrangement, I see no reason why the siblings should not be reunited now with a view to an application being made in March of next year.

Ducklings45 Sun 24-Mar-13 06:03:14

So could they move in 'unoffically' so to speak and then apply this time next year? How would that work in terms of school and their contact information etc?

Would school let sibling be point of contact/the one signing permission slips etc?

izzyizin Sun 24-Mar-13 06:23:09

Providing all of the parties are agreeable and there is no legal or other bar to such a move, the answer to your first question is yes.

In terms of school contact information, the dps can inform the school in writing to the effect that henceforth <older sibling's name> is to be named as the point of contact and will act in loco parentis at parent/teacher meetings and other events.

With regard to permission for school trips and suchlike, there is no reason why the dps should not continue to sign their consent as usual until such time as a Court of Law grants an order for residence in favour of the adult sibling.

Ducklings45 Sun 24-Mar-13 07:50:00

Thank you so much for all the help and advice, it is much appreciated smile

BlingLoving Sun 24-Mar-13 08:06:29

You need to get actual legal advice. Comments on here, no matter how helpful, should not be used to base your decision making on. Most lawyers will talk for half an hour or free to start assessing the situation.

MrsSham Sun 24-Mar-13 09:46:34

Izzy. That is not THE requirement for a residence order, there are more. And in fact it is of the children have lived there for three years. But you can't just move children around without informing social services. It is in fact a duty to inform social services if you have a child living with you for 28 days or more. So if OP just goes about moving possibly vulnerable children around, this would probably not viewed in great light. OP you must get the best and accurate legal advice here. As I said contact family rights group, a solicitor or social worker, if the dcs have one.

floatyjosmum Sun 24-Mar-13 22:17:18

You don't need to contact social services unless they are already involved. It isn't a private fostering arrangement due to the sibling relationship.

If both parents agree you don't necessarily need a resistance order however they would continue to be the only ones who can sign anything - medical/school trips etc.

You can claim child benefit and tax credits from day one - no need for the residence order to do this.

floatyjosmum Sun 24-Mar-13 22:18:04

Residence not resistance!

MrsSham Sun 24-Mar-13 22:21:38

You should contact ss after 28 days because that is the point it becomes a private fostering arrangement, wether previous involvement or not. Its enforceable obviously.

MrsSham Sun 24-Mar-13 22:22:05

Its NOT enforceable that should say.

MrsSham Sun 24-Mar-13 22:26:42

Ah sorry I see your point, its a close relative so is it different, I didn't think it was. I may not be correct then.

Ducklings45 Sun 24-Mar-13 22:54:52

Thanks for all the advice, as suggested, I will try as seek legal advice tomorrow :-)

floatyjosmum Mon 25-Mar-13 07:30:57

There are certain relatives exempt from private fostering .... Grandparents, aunts, uncles, siblings are the main ones - it also includes the step ones aswell.

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