What do we do now?

[SkeletonButterfly]

My DP's ex has cut contact, has said that my DP can see his two kids for 2 hours on a Sunday only, no overnights and no contact with me.

I know he needs to contact a solicitor, but no idea what to expect re costs etc

Also have never been involved in this process before, so I really need to know what usually happens

He is only trying to get shared care, 50% ish residency or about that anyway, nothing unreasonable.

No legal issues, they were never married etc

What happens now?

[SkeletonButterfly]

Bump?

[CheerfulYank]

I have no idea other than to contact a solicitor, sorry! But I wish you the best and am bumping.

[SkeletonButterfly]

Thanks

It's all so shite

[3xcookedchips]

Hold are the kids?

What were the arrangents previous to the cut?

Does he have PR?

What are her reasons for the cut?

What are her reasons for cutting you out?

Has there been court action previously between him and his ex?

have there been allegations/police action?

How far away from the ex does the DP live?

Does DP work full time, does the ex work full time?

[STIDW]

The paramount concern is the welfare of children, not parental rights or equality between parents. When the court determines living/contact arrangements the judge refers to the Welfare Checklist in s1 Children Act 1989. The views of children are taken into account according to their ages and also the family background and the likely effects of any change on the children. Unless there is evidence children aren't surviving satisfactorily it is generally agreed that continuity of care is in the best interests of children so it's an uphill struggle changing the established pattern of care.

Clearly 2 hours a week isn't sufficient for your partner to maintain a meaningful relationship with the children and no contact with you is unreasonable if you are in a settled relationship with him. The indications for sharing residence 50:50 are both parents living in close proximity of each other and schools/nursery, children perceiving the have two homes, and a history of shared care 50:50. Unless both parents work full-time and share child care 50:50 before they separate the probability of 50:50 shared residence after separation is low. However shared residence in different proportions is appropriate when a parent has substantial involvement with the children.

Costs depend on the amount of work involved. Some cases are in and out of court for years and cost tens of thousands. Good contact for children relies on parents working together, or at least not against each other, and going to court tends to lead to resentment and resistance making that difficult if not impossible. Therefore it's worth trying to reach agreement through mediation or solicitor negotiation before embarking on court proceedings.

[SkeletonButterfly]

Ok, answers to questions.

Hold are the kids?

What were the arrangents previous to the cut?

Does he have PR?

What are her reasons for the cut?

What are her reasons for cutting you out?

Has there been court action previously between him and his ex?

have there been allegations/police action?

How far away from the ex does the DP live?

Does DP work full time, does the ex work full time?

The kids are 8 and 6, my DP has had irregular contact over the last 4 years, including overnights. Irregular due to issues between the parents. The arrangements were every other weekend, Friday afternoon until Sunday after lunch. No issues for a while. Ex had a partner that was abusive to me when I was pregnant (threatened to throw me down the stairs) so contact became erratic. When Ex left abusive partner, contact practically stopped altogether as she didnt want the kids away from her. DP has been less than proactive in getting it sorted out which is a big problem, but now is really trying to get contact sorted. Havent had an overnight since June.

Ex told us that we no longer needed to pay maintenance for the children when I got pregnant as she did not need the money. However, in September went to CSA. Not a problem, CSA advised we come to a private arrangement. She refused. Have set up CSA payments, wrote a letter to Ex stating that contact needed to be reinstated - every other weekend and half the holidays. Ex refused this, said that as the kids hadnt stayed for so long they needed time to get used to being with Dad. No issue, as long as the time was extending.

Ex has tried to be 'pally' with DP, their relationship ended badly and he does not want to be her friend, so recently she has been stirring things up between me and my partner - most recently telling him that I am pregnant and it isnt his - so as I was at work when the kids were coming over I told DP that I didnt want her and her GF in the house.

This has effectively led to her stating that the kids cant come round here, that I am not allowed round there and DP can only see the kids for 2 hours every Sunday. She will not consider what the kids want, we only live 5 mins away on foot, and school run is just as easy from our house as hers.

No court action, no allegations or police involvement, she is just refusing to budge and its unfair so I think speaking to a solicitor is the best thing to do.

my DP works full time mon-fri, I only work part time evenings and weekends and Ex does not work.

I know that the kids want to spend time here, they always ask to stay when they are here and when we bump into eachother in town they always ask when they can come over, so I do think its in their best interests - but she is making it a 'fight' and telling us that we wont win, which is unnecessary and demoralising for us, and I just hope she isnt discussing all this in front of the kids

[SkeletonButterfly]

Oh, and his name is on the BC and the kids have his surname - dont know if thats PR or not.

[STIDW]

If he is on the birth certificate your ex will have PR.

It's certainly a good idea to see a lawyer in the hope that the mother will seek her own legal advice once she receives a solicitor's letter and an agreement can be negotiated either in or out of court. Your partner doesn't need to be pally with his ex, often separated parents establishing their own autonomy and remaining civil is more successful. That way parents are able to parent to the best of their ability in "their" time without interference but they can still communicate about important issues.

Although there is nothing wrong with supporting your partner, as a new partner you need to be careful not to take on any of the disputes as your own as that tends to make things much worse. If the ex is hostile to you or your partner that is her issue and the children shouldn't be used as a weapon in disputes between parents.

The priority is to re-establish contact every other weekend and 50% of the school holidays. People often get hung up about the labels "contact" and "shared residence" but in practice there usually isn't a great deal of difference between the two.

[STIDW]

Grr.. that should be your partner will have PR.

[3xcookedchips]

Shared residence is not a label and can have practical ramifications. Although not explicitly stated in an order it means that the children have 'two homes' they can move freely between - not living in one house and 'visiting' another. And where this is an order for shared residence means you dont have to gain the other parents permssion to go on holiday(28 days). Anyone who tells you dont get hung up on shared residence has never had to deal with a hostile/controlling ex - caveat: all cases are different. However that said in the first instance you should focus on getting the 'parenting time' (the term contact diminishes the role of role of a parent as being equal) reestablished asap - sounds like your DP has been his own worst enemy. Also do try not to engage with the ex.

[RedHelenB]

Sounds a bit confusing tbh. Father must carry on seeing them as much as possible, if it's without you for two hours where's the harm in that for the short term whiulst things are resolved? Then HE needs to see a solicitor for advice.

[SkeletonButterfly]

Hi, thanks for replies. He will be seeing them as arranged in the meantime, with my DS as I normally work.

I am not getting involved at all - other than establishing boundaries - and just want to know what to expect out of the system really.

[STIDW]

3xcookedchips Mon 26-Nov-12 15:52:06 wrote;

"Shared residence is not a label and can have practical ramifications. Although not explicitly stated in an order it means that the children have 'two homes' they can move freely between - not living in one house and 'visiting' another."

On the other hand if a term is loaded it creates a sense of winning or loosing which causes resentment and resistance. That is why there is currently draft legislation for child arrangement orders to replace contact/residence/shared residence orders.

Children can really only move freely between two homes when there are no orders and parents co-operate.


"And where this is an order for shared residence means you dont have to gain the other parents permssion to go on holiday(28 days)."

Conditions for holiday arrangements abroad can be attached to contact orders. Even with a shared residence order arrangements for holidays abroad and handing over passports often need to be negotiated.


Anyone who tells you dont get hung up on shared residence has never had to deal with a hostile/controlling ex - caveat: all cases are different

If someone has a difficult ex they may actually be better off with a contact order because the court has the additional option to enforce a contact order with community service or financial compensation. These measures aren't available to enforce shared residence.

[SkeletonButterfly]

Thank you all for the input.

[3xcookedchips]

STDIW:

With regard to holidays I meant to say holidays abroad - of course dates need to be agreed however this should not require negotions over passports.

If I wish to take my child on holiday I merely have to agree the dates and am not obligated to consult or agree where.

If ever you want to reinforce the sense of power and entitlement then make a residence in favour of one parent(usually the mother) and then step back and see how the problems disappear. SRO bring a semblance of balance i.e. no one parent is more equal than the other

Parents cooperate? Do you mean adhere to an order?

If a parent can willfully be uncooperative in the knowledge it will undermine the other then where's the sense in indulging that.
Even where one parent is beliigerently hostile SROs are awared(not in my situation I might add)

The court has a wide gambit to enforce orders, SROs or not.

One question should be asked of resident mothers more often and that is why there shouldn't be shared residence - the answers would be interesting.


Back to the OP: Yes, your DP must rirgidly continue to see his kids as much as she will allow for the time otherwise if he becomes inconsistent this will be used against should it reach court.