Opened a small claims case, now v worried!

[shouldIbecrossaboutthis]

Long story short.

I asked an architect to draw some plans, cost £300. Architect didn't go to planning office as promised & was slow to reply to my emails (3/4 days) so I was worried about paying my bill prior to receiving the plans as thought he might be a scam. I paid the bill 3 weeks late after doing more research on the company and after getting legal advice via house insurance.

Paid the bill and asked 3 times (over 6 weeks) to be sent plans - architect never replied. Sent final 4th email saying please refund money (had to get new plans done!) or else I will open court case (nearly 9 weeks after I paid). Again no reply so I opened the Small Court case.

In addition I hired this architect through mybuilder and you can leave feedback - I left him negative feedback.

Got an email from architect today saying:

1. I frustrated the terms of the contract by paying late and as such architect was within rights to take my £300 and give me nothing in return
   
2. Architect will be opening a counter claim for "the time and any and all losses associated with my court action"
   3)My negative feedback is defamatory and if the architects workload is affected by my feedback "reasonable quantifiable losses" will be sought
   
   I'm a bit stumped here. I know I paid the bill late, but surely that doesn't make it ok for him to skip off with my £300? I'm going to get some legal advice tomorrow but until then wondered if anyone here could help.
   
   Thanks.

[pushmepullyou]

My company is a similar professional sevices type company. We ask for payment up front from private individuals so I think this is pretty normal. Taking 3 days to respond to an email can also be fairly normal.

The rest of it isn't though. I'm not an expert on Contract law but I don't really see what else you could have done. Did you sign a contract and did the architect send you their terms and conditions? I don't see how you can be in the wrong here.

[shouldIbecrossaboutthis]

Thanks pushmepullyou, I think if the architect had gone to meet the council it would have been fine, but because he didn't (and didn't tell me, I had to chase) it seemed suspect and I was worried. I think in my head it wasn't that big a deal to pay late, I did email to say I was going to have to pay late due to a problem with my bank. It seemed politer than saying, "I think you're going to con me!"

I did sign something, I asked for a copy to be sent but never got it. It was basic stuff, like I agree to pay the money prior to receiving the plans (I suggested half before plans and half after plans). It wasn't anything in detail. And I certainly don't remember a "if you pay late I wont give you your plans" clause. there was something about "Payment is due 14 days from instruction to proceed with works."

The architect sent me a email reminded to pay on the 30th May, I paid 2 hours after receiving the email. I they had no intention of giving me the plans as I had "frustrated" the contract, why ask for payment?

I haven't seen any aspect of these plans btw!

[wonkylegs]

Firstly can you check if your 'Architect' is really an architect. Go to the ARB (architects registration board) website and you can search for him by name.
If he is an architect then you need to report him for unprofessional conduct & failing to respond appropriately.
He should have returned a signed copy of the contract and the terms should be set out, explained and fair.
That said you should not have withheld payment without explanation.
It is standard terms to require payment before handing over plans (it's amazing how many people don't want to pay if you do it the other way round)
Late payment or non payment of fees is the main reason that so many architects have gone bust in this recession. We don't work on huge margins and payments literally pay the bills at the moment so lack of payment when you expect it can be devastating. (believe me we have had to pay salaries late due to this more than once and mortgage companies / banks/ childcare aren't that sympathetic when that happens).
However he hasn't dealt with this properly either. Standard way to deal with late payment is to charge a percentage (set in the contract) as a penalty.
He should be responding to your emails however I would expect 3 or 4 days as a response time as he is probably working on other things including work that takes him out of the office. If I dropped everything to respond to every email when it came in I would constantly be replying to emails and never get any drawings/ specs/ inspections or reports done.
He should also be informing you of how the work is progressing and updating you on results of planning meetings / enquiries.
Tbh he doesn't sound like a real architect to me - more like a plan drawer and in this case you would be better going down the SCC option for redress. However please try to find a copy of the contract as that will be crucial to work out if you can get any recompense - after all you were in the wrong first.
In future if you have an issue you must inform the person first that you are withholding payment and why and this reason should be a valid reason ( such as poor quality work / doing completely the wrong thing) and the amount withheld should be proportional to the wrongdoing if that makes sense.

[shouldIbecrossaboutthis]

Hi both thanks for your replies, the feedback I left is very factual, it includes that I paid late for eg. I don't think I should remove it as he might have done this with other people in the past, then scared them into getting it removed. He is not on the ARB either, which I had known about that site before I hired him!

wonkylegs, I didn't pay without explanation, I told him there was a problem with my bank. I do realise this wasn't the cleverest thing to do, but it's quite worrying handing over £300 when you're not sure the other person is legit. Once I was sent a payment reminder, I paid it right away. He didn't give me the impression it was needed right away r that I wouldn't be getting the plans as a result of not paying. He never really kept me informed of anything, I was constantly chasing him, which added to my suspicion. To be honest, if I'd have not signed a contract I wouldn't have paid at all as I did feel like he was a con man .

I guess I will let the claim run in the small claims court and have a think about the defamation statement. My solicitor seems to think he's all hot air.

[FreeButtonBee]

I wouldn't worry about his threats - they are idle and the small claims court will see them for what they are - scare tactics.

If you are really concerned then I suggest that you go to your local CAB or see if you have a local legal advice centre. They can provide you with a bit of comfort.

If your feedback is factual ie you paid (albeit late) and still have not received the erquested plans, then I think he would find it v hard to claim defamation, Most likely thing is that he will manage to get the comments removed from the website - but mostly those websites refuse to get drawn into tit for tat.

[shouldIbecrossaboutthis]

Hi everyone thanks for the advice. I have now received his defence and counter claim. Can he really file a counter claim for, "time spent away from work defending a dubious claim"? It's just taken me 4 hours to organise a reply to his defence, in theory in 4 hours in work I earn £120! If i lose this is giong to cost me so much money and I'm really worried .

He is basically saying bla bla bla, he sent the plans in the post, bla bla bla. There are lots of words in his defence, but it boils down to that really. Although at the end he stabs himself in the foot a little IMO by saying, "I dispute that xxx are actually obliged to provide shouldibecrossaboutthis with any plans what-so-ever..."

Any advice would be fab. Especially on what happens now I have the "allocation questionnaire".

Thanks.

[suburbandweller]

You mention upthread that you have a solicitor - aren't they advising you on all this?

Anyway, his defence sounds helpful to you given that you have an email from him basically admitting he never provided you with anything (i.e. suggesting he has lied in his defence about posting you out plans). The basic position here is that you paid for a service which you haven't received. You didn't frustrate the contract by not paying; the natural and usual consequence of that would be his right to charge you interest on the sum due. I would argue that he accepted your breach of contract by sending you a payment reminder and not raising any issues about your late payment until you issued your claim against him. Sounds like a straightforward case to me so I really wouldn't worry about his ludicrous counterclaim.

The allocation questionnaire is just to ensure that your case is allocated to the right type of court - it's all about next steps and the timetable to trial. Make sure you get it filled out and sent back before the deadline!

[shouldIbecrossaboutthis]

Hi suburbandweller, I do have a solicitor, but given the fees he charges I thought I would go it alone for now. I do have a friend who might be abe to provide some free advice but she is away at the moment.

Great about the allocation questionnaire, I've filled it in and will post it tomorrow.

The thing is, if he has posted them to me and can prove it I'm happy to still receive the plans and drop the claim for a refund of fees as if that is the case then Royal Mail were the reason I didn't get the plans not him. But if he doesn't have proof of postage I want my money back in full as the plans are now useless. Is there a place for me to ask this? Should I contact him direct?

I'm 32 weeks pregnant so just want to resolve it really, not necessarily take him to court. Is that what mediation is for?

Thanks again.

[Fluffycloudland77]

The judge we had was very good, he saw through the other sides counter claim which just happened to add up to what we were claiming.

The crux of the matter is you paid for something you did not recieve, if you had then you would not have needed to go to court. Ie this was all avoidable.

[shouldIbecrossaboutthis]

Thanks Fluffycloudland77, that is what I thought. But given this man wants to proceed with court & believes he is in the right, it makes you doubt yourself!!

[suburbandweller]

If you'd be happy to accept the plans in exchance for dropping the case there's nothing to stop you from writing to him to make that offer. Just head your letter "without prejudice save as to costs" so that it doesn't compromise your claim unless he accepts. He'd be mad not to.

Mediation is for attempting to resolve the dispute without it going to trial - it can work if you're both prepared to try to reach a compromise. I would think though that you can achieve that without going to the trouble of a mediation given that basically all you want is what you paid for or your money back.

[shouldIbecrossaboutthis]

Thanks again suburbandweller, not sure I was very clear. I will only drop the court case if he can provide proof of postage, as this demonstrates he didn't deliberately withhold them and the reason I didn't get them was due to Royal Mail -and his rubbish communication--.

If he can not provide proof of postage then I would like to continue with the claim as this demonstrates he did deliberately with hold the plans. As a result of him with holding the plans I had to get more drawn up and paid for. So I am out of pocket and his withholding them has caused me to be.

Does that make sense?

Anyway, I sent him an email, lets see what happens :)

[shouldIbecrossaboutthis]

Argh! Now I'm even more confused and worried. After my polite email, I got a response today. It's very long but I can summarise it.

He doesn't have proof of postage, I know fuck knows how, I wasn't with him at the post office! this and that is why I am trying to extort money out of him.

He will not be providing proof of postage or refunding me the money.

He expects me to:

1. Remove my feedback and says I have "exposed myself to a substantial financial damages claim" and I should "take action as a matter of urgency"
   
2. Cancel my small claims court claim
   
3. Pay him £100 in damages for "possible lost business"
   
4. Pay him £50 for compensation due to time he has lost due to my claim.
   

I feel like I've stepped into a parallel universe. I'm seriously starting to doubt if I'm in the right here? Why would he expect me to do the above if he knows he hasn't sent the plans? Could it be he has sent the plans and really does think I'm trying to con him? If he has sent the plans and I never received them, where would I stand then?

My solicitor friend is home in 3 days and I can not wait to chew her ear off about this. I really don't understand how it can be fair for him to take my money and give me nothing in return!? Also on the site where I left him feedback he has put some feedback for me and it's IMO quite personal stuff. ie. I'm incapable of paying my bills, I'm a nasty piece of work, I've used his plans in a second application - all lies BTW! Surely stuff like that makes him look like an idiot and is causing him more damage than my polite & factual comments?!

Any reassurance would be great. I'm starting to wonder if it's worth the hassle but don't want this person to think they can go around doing this!

[shouldIbecrossaboutthis]

Thanks fuckwittery, I wouldn't accept the plans now unless he can provide proof of postage. Basically because the plans are now useless (I have had new ones done)

I did send him an email saying, "if you send me proof of postage to support that the plans were sent I will drop the claim as this would prove it was Royal Mail that were to blame for the delay, not you deliberately withholding".

That's when he sent me the email I mention in my last post, making loads of random demands!

[shouldIbecrossaboutthis]

Oh just missed your last bit, getting too hasty!

"Also, did he not say on the feedback website that he had not delivered the plans because you paid late? Thus contradicting his defence where he says he posted them to you"

No I don't think he said it on his feedback, did I put that on here? He says at the end of his defence in a big rant that he doesn't believe he is obliged to provide me with any plans what-so-ever. But he also says in his defence he did post me the plans.

[mercibucket]

It is hard for you to understand because you are a normal person, so you think everyone behaves in a normal, rational manner

Good on you taking him to court! Bet he's used to bullying his way out of things

[mercibucket]

It is hard for you to understand because you are a normal person, so you think everyone behaves in a normal, rational manner

Good on you taking him to court! Bet he's used to bullying his way out of things

[allagory]

If it is true it can't be defamatory. Stick to your comments. Copy and paste his letter to you on there too.

[propercharlie]

Right, firstly stop panicking!

Ignore all this total nonsense he is sending you. His counterclaim is a pile of tosh.

Your claim is sound.

[fridakahlo]

Not a legal bod or anything but it sounds to me like he is trying to get you to drop the claim as he knows he does not have a leg to stand on.

[shouldIbecrossaboutthis]

Phew! Ok, I will stop panicking. I just don't like getting into trouble and will be mortified if this guy is in the right!

So even if he sent the plans I'm still in the right? Right?!

[prh47bridge]

He contracted to provide you with plans. He has not done so. Even if he posted them, you did not receive them. If they were lost in the post that is his problem unless your contract with him states otherwise (and even then there is the question as to whether that is an unfair contract term, particularly if it allows him to get away with doing no work and claiming it was lost in the post).

He cannot use your late payment as justification for doing no work at all. He can counter claim for anything he wants but a claim for "time spent away from work defending a dubious claim" will fail.

I would avoid involving your solicitor in this. You cannot claim your legal costs from him. The small claims court is designed to encourage people to represent themselves.

This is a very straightforward case. You paid him to do some work. He has not done the work. You have not frustrated the contract by paying late. he has frustrated the contract by refusing to do the work. He must return your money plus your court fee. He hasn't got a leg to stand on.

His latest demands are unreasonable. His feedback for you is libellous. Complain to the site about his feedback. They should remove it. Tell him that you will not be withdrawing your claim under any circumstances, that his claims for damages and compensation are baseless, and that any repetition of the "feedback" may lead to action for libel which could cost him substantially more than the £300 or so he owes you already.

I would also consider talking to Trading Standards about him.

You hesitated to pay him initially because you thought he might be a scam. Everything that has happened since you paid him suggests that your instincts were right. He is indeed a scam and is attempting to scam you out of even more money.