Section 21 (1)(b)notice served at tenancy start; do we now have to give notice?

[plupropertypickle]

We were served a Section 21 (1) (b) Notice Requiring Possession at the very beginning of our tenancy (made us feel very welcome!), but the LLs have decided to sell the property, so they suggested the tenancy would go onto a rolling tenancy upon the expiry of our term. However, we do not have this (alternative) suggestion in writing, and the period has not yet expired, so there have been no rent payments on the new basis (which would, we suppose, create a contract).

We have been looking for a new house since spring (when the LLs informed us of their plans), and have finally found something, which we can move into in just over a month. We are keen to do this, too, as I am pregnant, and don't want to be packing and moving boxes while further along.

We are now ready to give notice tomorrow, and are trying to work out what sort of notice we have to give.

1. Does the Section 21 (1) (b) notice have to be formally revoked, for the presumption of continuation mentioned above? (Or are we too late with this?) Shelter's information on this only says, "If you know you want to leave at the end of the fixed-term it is best to give the landlord notice."
   
   
2. We did have a break clause in the contract, which required both sides to give two months' notice to break the contract. However, is two months the notice period we are tied to in any rolling contract, or is it one month? Nothing has been specified about the length of notice. Naturally, we would rather pay one month rather than two months' extra! And we didn't want to give notice any earlier, because we were having a hard time finding something suitable, not too expensive (rents are getting to extortionate levels...), and rental properties kept being let before we could have our viewings.
   
   I know that we sound very cold and unaccommodating in this post; the relationship with the LLs has not been the easiest, and we still bear a grudge (not acted upon) for the length of time they left us hanging after we paid our deposit and did all the reference-checking business, before deigning to produce and sign our contract. They also refused to repair a very draughty floor, telling us we could do it if we wanted, but "it's not something we would fund".
   
   Many thanks in advance for any advice you can offer on this. We only secured the new house on Friday (though contract not yet signed), so were planning to give notice on Monday.
   
   P.S. I know this is a public forum, so have namechanged, in case someone who knows the LLs informs them of this and causes hard feelings on their side, as well as our hard feelings!

[snicker]

If the AST hasn't run out then I would think you have to give 2 months.

If they want to evict you on a periodic tenancy then the Sec 21 b doesn't count, they have to reissue a Sec 21 a.

If the fixed term ends within 2 months then you can give notice that you will leave on the last day of the term but you still have to give 1 month and make sure written notice reaches the LL before the last rent day.

[snicker]

You usually have to give the notice before the last rent day so if you paid on the 5th of every month and your AST went from 05/08/10 to 04/08/11 then you would have to give notice (ie notice reaches LL) by 04/07/11 and if you were a few days late then you would have to pay up to 04/09/11 iyswim. Technically as they served the sec 21 then you don't have to give notice but you still should as it avoids confusion lying. Sec 21s issued at the same time as ASTs are dodgy and it will be invalid (assuming it ever was valid) as soon as the tenancy becomes periodic which would leave you having to give a months notice.

[HerHissyness]

If you are now on a rolling contract - known as a Statutory Periodic Contract, the LL is obligated by law to give you 2m notice, but you only need give one.

Are you intending to leave before the end of the AST, the first contract, and before the beginning of the rolling contract?

If you are still within the AST contract with the 2m on either side then unless the LL agrees to it, you need to give the 2m. If you ask and say that you want to go early, you can draw up a deed of surrender, and agree to hand the property back earlier.

If you wait until the end of the AST, you can leave on the date THEIR notice expires, tbh, unless agreed with the LL, you can leave at the end of the AST without notice as it's assumed that tenancy will come to an end unless extended or agreed to roll on.

As I understand it, if you wish to give notice, you can do so at any time within the AST, but the notice can not end the tenancy early, so you could give 2m notice 2 full calendar months (on the payment date) before the end of the agreement, but not leave until the date you were supposed to anyway.

The only way to end the agreement early is the deed of surrender.

Does that help?

[plupropertypickle]

Thanks so much for the reply, Her Hissyness! The mess of the lack of personalisation on MN meant I lost all sorts of stuff, including this nickname, the ability to namechange back and also the ability to PM!

[HerHissyness]

Hope it all makes sense!