Secondary infertility

(295 Posts)

Am in cycle 19 TTC #2. We have a beautiful DD who took a while to conceive (managed on cycle 16, got my BFP the day before our referral appointment for fertility treatment!) so I expected it to take a while to get a second. However, time is ticking by (am 37) and I really do want DD to have a sibling, so I have been to the GP. First set of investigations have been done and and DH and I have an appointment with the GP this afternoon to get test results and hopefully a referral.

I am feeling a strange combination of emotions. I feel a bit guilty for wanting another child so much when I already have a wonderful DD. I am worried about what treatment may be necessary, how we can pay for it, even if it would be appropriate to fund trying to conceive another child when we could spend those resources on giving the child we already have the best possible start in life.

I even feel a tiny bit guilty for even posting this here, as I already have a child and should be grateful for what I have (and I am, very much). But I can't help longing for another, I get so envious of friends who have / are going on to have second children (and in some cases contemplating a third). I am a mummy, I no longer have to deal with the awful feeling of wondering if I will ever know the joy of parenthood, but every month I have the same disappointment and sense of failure when AF arrives, coupled with the anxiety that every month lost makes the potential age gap bigger.

So please tell me your good news about secondary infertility. Did you get your BFP eventually? Or did you manage to come to terms with not having another and make the most of your smaller than planned family? And if you did go down the path of intervention, what did it involve? Was it successful? Do you have any regrets?

worriedmum100 Sat 20-Apr-13 07:57:06

No good news stories but didn't want to read and run.

I am in exactly the same position and could have written your post as have exactly same feelings. I am on cycle 12 of ttc dc2. I'm ovulating, dp is fine. We conceived ds (who is nearly 2)quickly so I wasn't expecting this at all. I'm.booked in for an hsg to check tubes next month. Its possible my emcs did some damage.

Anyway, just wanted to say you're not alone.

Thanks worriedmum. Test results show that we are apparently ok. DH fine, be ovulating ok, but I am also concerned that EMCS ay have caused damage. We are being referred to fertility clinic and hopefully next step for me will be HSG. I'm not sure how far we'll go down the route of self funded treatment, but I want to at east try and find out what is causing the problem.

resipsa Sat 20-Apr-13 20:29:05

I'm with you too. DD is 26 months. Fell pregnant again (after 5 months) in Jan 12 when DD was just 1. Ecstatic but ended in m/c at 10 weeks . Had ERCP. Nothing since. Feel guilty like you describe but also so depressed as all DD's friends mums are either already mums to 2 or expecting soon. Had tests; no reason for problem save my age (41 when we started). So, have bitten the bullet and started IVF cycle yesterday. Terrified about what I will feel if it fails (as odds predict) but compelled to try. Wishing you both luck.

DeMaz Sat 20-Apr-13 21:25:13

Hi there,

I'm also going through secondary infertility. I'm 35 and my little girl is 2. I conceived her in my first month of TTC and i thought the second one would be quite quick too. However, fourteen months down the line and we're still trying.
Whether its primary infertility or secondary infertility that a person goes through, your desire to have a child NEVER goes away and the heartbreak is equal.
I've had all my blood tests done and they came back fine. Hubby had a sperm analysis and that was ok. Now I'm going for my HSG next Wednesday (what joy!). Not thrilled by it but I am hoping I can get some answers.

Xxxx

teaandchocolate Mon 22-Apr-13 13:51:31

Just wanted to say that I'm also struggling with not being able to have a second DC. We've been trying since January 2012 and in that time have had 2 mc but now I can't seem to get pregnant. I feel like time is ticking away and DD is 3 soon (on the anniversary of my last mc) but I'm still not pregnant. It's so frustrating and there are so many mixed feelings. I can't do lots of exciting things to take my mind off ttc as I have my DD who needs me and most of the people I see are 'baby friends' so already have their 2nds. I feel guilty moaning on here as I know how lucky I am to have DD but I desperately want a sibling for her.

I know of a few people who had these issues and all went on to have more children. I feel hopeful but I do worry about the age gap and I feel particularly frustrated as I have the due dates of the mc in my mind

Sending my support to you all. It's harder than I thought it would be.

omama Mon 22-Apr-13 19:29:58

Agree. Who'd have thought this baby making lark would be so tough.

We are also struggling with ttc #2. I'm 33 & ds is 2.8. We conceived him on 4th cycle so was expecting similar this time around. We're now on cycle 14 of trying & absolutely nothing so far.

Its such a rollercoaster of emotions. I feel like i shouldn't complain as i've already got ds (who i love with all my heart & am so grateful for) & there are so many out there who are in a worse position than me. But its not my choice to just have one, I have this overwhelming longing for another child, & for ds to have a sibling. I I feel envious of all my friends who already have dc2 & find each new announcement hard. And as time goes by i worry that the age gap is getting too big, and the further away we get from the baby stage, the more i worry how we'll cope with going back to it again (though i'd do it in a heartbeat).

I've had bloods done & got an abnormal progesterone result, currently awaiting results of dh's SA then gp is going to refer us to fertility clinic.

I am also worried about what treatments may be required & what the costs will be, & finally the long term impact on mine/dh's relationship.

When we initially discussed it we agreed we'd find out what (if anything) was the problem, if its a medical issue that can be treated we'd treat it, but if it came to IVF/IUI we'd stop. Dh seems more accepting of that but I'm not really sure i'd be ready to accept one is my lot without trying.

Not sure what the future will hold but here to offer support to everyone going through the same.

We conceived ds on the first cycle.
We've now been trying for 24 cycles for dc2.
Everything with me has come back normal but dh has had two terrible sa results. The first one was worse than the second but both pretty bad. It looks like we will need icsi to conceive. I can't believe it has come to this to be honest. I can't understand how we conceived first time round. Am majorly depressed.

Thank you all for your responses. It is helpful to know that I am not alone. resipsa good luck with the IVF. I hope you don't mind me asking, but how did you get to your decision to proceed with IVF? I feel a particular challenge about whether I ought to fund treatment or not, or whether that would in effect, be taking funds away that could be spent on our DD.

omama I totally agree with what you say about "I'm not really sure i'd be ready to accept one is my lot without trying." I guess I am starting by wanting to find out what the problem is and see if there is anything that can be done to fix it. But I'm not sure i could stop with no attempt at all to treat. I am currently saving like mad to try and get myself an IUI fund. I have no idea if IUI would be an appropriate treatment for us at this stage, but it is a cost that I can actually meet, where as IVF requires major financial sacrifice.

Idbelove so sorry to hear your DH's poor SA results. I can imagine its difficult to understand when you have already conceived once. Have the clinic given any indication of whether there's anything your DH can do to improve his SA? Any explanation for the apparent sudden deterioration?

Given the huge costs of fertility treatments that have to be self funded second time around, has anyone considered / tried alternative / complementary therapies? I am contemplating reflexology, and have been cutting back caffeine, alcohol and increasing exercise. All good for me anyway, and I feel like I'm taking some semblance of control back by doing as much as I can to boost my fertility by improving my general health.

teaandchocolate Tue 23-Apr-13 08:57:25

It is comforting to know that there are others out there going through the same things as its pretty lonely and not really discussed. I have also started to dread social events as I know at least one person will ask me when I'm going to have another one.

YorkshireTea (love that name btw - I am obssssed with Yorkshire tea!!) - I am trying lots of alternative therapies at the moment. Have had acupuncture on and off for years as I had a mc before dd. I have pcos and find it helpful for regulating my hormones. It's also good for helping deal with stress and related problems like tension headaches. My acupuncturist also does hypnotherapy although cant say I'm great at going with that as I naturally think too much all the time! I've also recently started reflexology. Not sure I believe in it as much as acupuncture but its definitely much nicer (as no needles!) and very relaxing. I just like to feel like I'm doing things. I also take loads of vitamins - Marilyn Glenvilles multi vitamin, high dose vit C & D and omega 3 (evening primrose at the moment to help my cycle). I've cut back on caffeine but struggle with not having tea. I also tried not drinking at all but I enjoy a glass if wine especially when AF turns up! I think I need to do more exercise so plan on getting more fresh air but am a bit lazy!!!

I am kind of throwing everything at this in the hope that something will work. I worry about stupid things like using my mobile phone & colouring my hair and whether any of this affects fertility but I guess you have to live your life and be happy too. I just don't know how people keep going with this for years, its all consuming.

uggmum Tue 23-Apr-13 09:08:22

I am in a similar position. I have 2 dc (which I know I am lucky to have). But really wanted to have a 3rd to complete my family.

I can't even tell you the amount of cycles as I've lost count after over 4 years.

I have had 12 months of clomid, a lap and dye. 1 mmc and an erpc and an ectopic.

I am 42 and feel that I am stuck in limbo and feel trapped by it all now. Part of me wants to give up but I just can't admit defeat

Sunnydaisy Tue 23-Apr-13 14:11:37

Hi

I'm in exactly the same situation and experiencing all of the mixed emotions too.

Our ds has just turned 2.5 and we've been trying for a sibling for around 16 months now. Ds was conceived first month and now I appreciate just how lucky we were.

We have had all the tests done and apart from a slightly reduced amh reading, although not alarmingly low, there is no real reason why it's not happening. Dh's initial results weren't great but he's tried really hard with his diet, exercise and no alcohol which made a massive difference - definitely worth trying if sa results not good.

We've just tried an iui cycle and although I don't know for sure that it wasn't successful, I suspect it wasn't - usual cramps and mood swings aplenty! For anyone thinking of trying iui, it honestly wasn't too bad. The scans take a bit of time but other than that, it's ok - even the injections!!

If we're not successful, I'm not sure what we'll do. Part of me thinks that we should just be grateful for our ds and give him everything but then I feel so sad that he'll never have a brother or sister.

I'm really struggling to come to terms with secondary infertility and it's nice to be able to share experiences with other people that are all thinking and feeling the same things.

Hoping that someone might be able to offer some hope but in the meantime, stay hopeful! X

resipsa Tue 23-Apr-13 16:48:15

York I have no idea how we have got to the IVF stage to be honest. I didn't even want DC until I was nearly 39! When we decided to try then, I thought it'd be so easy to say "well, we tried but it didn't work". So naive. As for IVF, we agreed after deciding to try for another that we'd NEVER go that far but here I am. I think I just need to know that I tried everything. I've tried to put the money part to one side (until the credit card bill comes then not sure what I'll do). Sorry, no help!

In a very similar situation, especially as regards the age gap. Each month that goes past (and especially September due dates.. another year before they're all at school..) I feel like time is slipping away and my life is constantly on hold.

I've conceived six times within a month or two (only half as many take home babies sadly, and often very high risk pregnancies [that issue now resolved] with the ones we did) up until we started TTC our last a year ago. Conception had never been the problem, but now it's been over a year. Basic tests all come back fine so tomorrow I'm having a lap and then maybe clomid.

Something has changed but I've no idea what - I'm "only" 36 and I can't believe the "fertility cliff" at 35 is quite that severe!!

Like many others, we've agreed that if IVF is needed then we won't go any further, but we want to exhaust the simpler, cheaper options so at least we can live with no regrets. We'd have given up a long time ago were it not for the overwhelming sense of feeling I'd betrayed that final little missing child we'd always wanted and planned for since forever. I'm not religious but a small part of me wonders if the universe is trying to tell me that we've had enough now and perhaps that child is not there waiting for us to make him or her. But I don't want to reach the menopause and feel we could have done more.

I feel guilty because we have children and some people are desperate for even one. There is nowhere to go for support because even if people don't say it, I know they're thinking it.. we're greedy. Probably they're right, I struggle to even justify it to myself to be honest. I know when I had none or one and having miscarriage issues I used to roll my eyes at people with multiple children desperate for more, although obviously I understand rather better now.

Aside from the initial basic tests, we're doing things privately partly because of my guilt over this, but I can't shake the urge to have this baby any more than I could with any of the others. The desire each time is just as strong - it's not necessarily about any one individual baby, it's about feeling our family is complete.

Lots of luck to all of us.

namechangesforthehardstuff Wed 24-Apr-13 21:41:33

I'm with you all. 40, dd 3 next month. 25 months ttc. Clomid month 1. sad

And how they all love to ask when we're going to start trying for another... Or tell me that only children are weird. Or ask me if it's OK that they're pregnant (what the fuck am I supposed to say to that?)

We may adopt. I don't know if we can justify the cost of IVF. I'd want to go to ARGC and that is SO expensive...

I just feel like I'm doing nothing but waiting. In the two week wait now but I also think it's a no go this month.

sad

dietcokeandwine Thu 25-Apr-13 23:04:48

Have experienced secondary infertility and can completely remember all the emotions you are all describing.

I am one of the lucky ones though and did eventually manage to conceive a sibling for my DS1, via IVF. It took us 3 months to conceive DS1; it took 3 years, 2 miscarriages, lots of alternative therapies, 6 rounds of Clomid and finally IVF to conceive DS2. There is a 5 year gap between them. But we got there. Eventually. I also went on to conceive naturally, and completely unexpectedly, following 2 failed IVF cycles to try for a third child (we had always wanted 3 children). Was about to start 3rd and final IVF cycle when my period was miraculously late, and my gorgeous baby DS3 is now 12 weeks old smile

Secondary infertility is really hard, my heart goes out to you all, I hope my story can give you some hope though.

DeMaz Fri 26-Apr-13 08:40:28

Thanks dietcokeandwine and many congratulations on your wonderful family. Your post has definitely given me hope. Can I just ask.......Did you have unexplained infertility? Did you have a battery of tests beforehand? The reason I ask is because I am going through this right now.

Thanks a million.
xxx

resipsa Fri 26-Apr-13 14:43:46

Diet great post, thanks!

dietcokeandwine Fri 26-Apr-13 22:51:24

DeMaz sorry you are in this position too, I can still remember so vividly how hard it was...and so frustrating and painful when you've conceived easily enough first time around!

Yes officially unexplained infertility although a few 'borderline' things, if that makes sense. I had various tests:

- 3 day and 21 day bloods -progesterone levels and FSH all fine
-hysterosalpingogram -tubes clear
- internal scan - uterus fine, ovaries fine but whilst I was never formally diagnosed with PCOS I was found to have significantly more follicles than might be expected for a women of my age (35 at the time).
-DH had the usual SA and was found to have poor morphology but an exceptionally high sperm count, so the poor morphology was kind of cancelled out by the sheer number of sperm in the analysis.

So nothing major discovered but a couple of not-quite-textbook-perfect issues picked up which may well have had an impact on our struggles to conceive.

We went through phases of trying alternative therapies (acupuncture, reflexology), taking stacks of vitamins and supplements, and cutting things out of our diets (alcohol, caffeine, sugar etc). Not sure any of those really made much difference tbh but at least we felt we were doing something positive at the time!

I was 32 when we had the super-easy conception of DS1, nearly 34 when we started trying for a sibling, 37 when we finally went through IVF and were blessed with DS2, and just 40 when we conceived DS3 naturally, if that helps anyone worried about age-related fertility concerns...

Oh and on the age gap between children thing, and worries about it becoming too big and so on...I used to obsess about this, literally working out each month what our age gap would be (down to the week) if I were to conceive this time. I desperately wanted a 2 year gap, 3 year maximum, and got 5. It's not what we planned/hoped for, but actually, it's lovely. The older two have a great (if noisy!) relationship. DS2 is currently rather unimpressed with baby brother, but DS1 (now nearly 9) is transparently besotted with him. DS1 was an only child for over 5 years but we've never had any major jealousy issues. There are so many plusses - not least that with a bigger gap, you have the time and energy to enjoy the second baby so much more. I've been able to give solid chunks of undivided attention to the younger two that just wouldn't have been possible with my longed-for two year gap. And I can honestly say that I enjoyed DS2's babyhood just as much as I did DS1's, and I'm now enjoying DS3 just as much too, and I don't think I'd have experienced that same level of enjoyment and sheer delight in doing the baby thing again had their conceptions happened quickly and easily.

I hope that helps, although I know that when you are going through this it feels like it will never ever happen. But it can happen and hopefully it will for you too.

Lots and lots of good luck to everyone on the thread.

dietcokeandwine Fri 26-Apr-13 23:03:53

resipsa just read back properly and realised you have just started IVF - good luck, sending lots of positive vibes for a BFP at the end of your cycle smile

ICantFindAFreeNickName Fri 26-Apr-13 23:20:47

DS1 was conceived in first month of trying. Took over 4 years to get DD. We had all the usual tests & was told it was unexplained secondary infertility although my age was against me (36 when we started trying for no 2).
After 3 cycles of Clomid & 1 round of turkey baster (cant remember actual name of procedure) we were having a month off any treatment as I needed a break, when I conceived. It never even crossed my mind that I could be pregnant, it was only that I needed to call my doctor when my period started so they could book me in for my next round of treatment. It slowly dawned on me that I was a week late!

I understand all the emotions you are going through - I felt so guilty about wanting another child, when so many people can't even have one. I also felt guilty that my DS would not have a sibling - although we know lots of single child who are very happy about it. I also understand the feeling of putting your life on hold. I decided that we would keep trying until I was 39 & 3 months then give up & get on with our lives as a family of 3. Luckily I conceived 6 months before that, but I needed the cut off point for my own sanity.

The gap between my two is nearly 7 years, which is way more than the 2 yeas we were planning originally. But it's turned out really well. I feel both children have had lots attention and they have always been the best of friends, as there is no sibling competition.

Good luck to everyone who is ttc xx

Lintilla Sat 27-Apr-13 10:49:05

Hi

I am currently going through all of this. I have a 3 year old DD and we have been trying for number 2 since she was 6 months old. We had 2 years of nothing, all the tests coming back normal but then I fell pregnant naturally in September when we were just about to start with fertility treatment. Unfortunately I miscarried at 5 weeks, then miscarried again at 5 weeks in December and there has been nothing since.

I am currently going through investigations for recurrent miscarriage and have so far had normal scan but I was borderline for lupus anticoagulant. I have been told to have another blood test 12 weeks from the first to see if the result changes at all, then back to see the consultant in June. So at the moment I feel we are in limbo.

With regards to the age gap, to start I really wanted a small gap but the longer it goes on the more I can see the positives of a bigger gap. But it is something that we have no control over so I feel it is best for me to accept that aspect.

I have switched to caffeine free tea but don't drink coffee anyway, I'm having reflexology and I'm trying to eat more meat because I've read that can help with progesterone production. But I just cannot give up my wine - especially with AF arrives!!

It just feels so rubbish to go through this sometimes. Good luck to everyone.
xx

teaandchocolate Sat 27-Apr-13 12:09:45

Dietcoke and Icantfind thank you so much for your posts. It's really nice to read about people who've been there and come out the other end. I completely relate to what you say. I keep having to readjust my expectations particularly in relation to the age gap. I also feel like nearly everyone I know has a two year gap or less which doesn't help. Everyone keeps telling me that when it happens it will all be fine but part of me feels like even if it does happen again for me I'll always be a bit sad for what might have been, particularly because of the miscarriages.

I'd really like it if this thread kept going as I don't feel like I really 'belong' on most of the other conception and infertility threads, mainly because I feel awful moaning about not being able to have a second when some can't even have one.

I also hate to say it but I always wanted three dc! Now feel a bit silly saying that when 2 is proving so difficult. And another thing that panics me is the thought of dd going to school next year. If I don't have another baby by then what will I do with myself??!

DeMaz Sat 27-Apr-13 13:24:09

Thanks so much for your post Diet. I was 33 when I had my little girl and now I will be 36. I'm pretty sure those three years have made a difference to my fertility. I've had all the bloods and they came back ok. Hubby's SA was good too. So now I'm thinking maybe I have a blocked tube(s)... Or low AMH. ( FSH 8.7)... Everything just goes though my head....I read about an issue with fertility and I convince myself I have that problem.
I had my HSG booked but was cancelled last minute so have to re-book. I also have an ultrasound on the 10th May so I'm hoping both these procedures might give me some answers.

Thanks again for your post and for YorkshireTea for starting this thread. I'm so glad I'm not alone...

Xxx

dietcokeandwine Sat 27-Apr-13 13:51:48

Lintilla sorry you are going through this too. I never managed to give up the wine either (my username gives a good clue as to my key vices grin). Ironically the month we conceived DS3 we'd been away for a weekend with friends and had both drunk like fishes both evenings!

DeMaz that's frustrating for you re your HSG - hope you manage to rebook soon. Your FSH sounds fine but as you say hopefully your scan and HSG will give you answers too.

teaandchocolate I think it would be a great idea to keep this thread going. I wish something like it had been around when I was struggling so much trying to have DS2. There is a particular kind of pain to secondary infertility, compounded by that guilt - as so many of you have said, you are blessed to have one child and it feels so greedy to be desperate for another when others are struggling to have any.

Saying that, of course primary infertility must be so much worse (my sister is currently going through IVF in an attempt to have a first baby and my heart aches for her), but at the same time I do think secondary infertility throws up issues and challenges that primary infertility simply doesn't. You can't avoid babies and young toddlers, for a start. I remember a friend of mine who struggled to conceive her first child saying that when she was having a bad time she would simply avoid going anywhere where babies and children might be (parks, daytime social gatherings and so on). You can't do that if you have a child already, because your own preschooler wants to go to the park or the party, and your life invariably revolves around other young families who will of course be producing second and third children at the drop of a hat.

And in struggling to have a second child, it's not just you and your partner you're grieving for - it's your DS or DD as well. That was almost the worst bit for me - feeling that I was failing DS in not being able to give him a brother or sister.

dietcokeandwine - sounds like you had exactly the same issues we're having. No PCOS but extra follicles on my end, and DH has the exact same issue with his SA.. the higher count is supposed to cancel out the morphology. And a clear HSG/lap (as of two days ago), and a very similar age. My consultant reckons I'll be pregnant within 3 months. I am afraid I raised an eyebrow given nothing has changed and it's been over a year now.

You're absolutely right about not being able to avoid it - I keep seeing pregnant women everywhere at all the things I go to with my DC. Plenty are close to delivery now - I should have my baby by now. Of course I don't know what they've gone through and I dare say several may well have had one heck of a mission getting to that point but I can't help but feel I should have a similar sized baby-filled bump. Rather than my pregnancy-wrecked abdominals making me look six months pregnant after a large meal and DD "helpfully" asking me if there is a baby in there hmm

resipsa Sat 27-Apr-13 21:38:00

Oh I could be writing any of these posts myself (save - yet - the happy ending ones). Just realised something - I had friends (all with DC the same age as my DD) round yesterday and there were 2 who couldn't make it - all also have a baby under 6 months or one on the way. At least before I had DD I could simply not meet these people, now I'm surrounded!

Lintilla Sun 28-Apr-13 11:38:02

teaandchocolate Keeping this thread going would be great. I have been lurking on various infertility and miscarriage threads for a while but just haven't felt like I could post. And I really want 3 too! I keep thinking if we could just get number 2, surely we would know what the problem is and number 3 would follow.

dietcokeandwine Thank you. DD was a drunken conception - I keep trying in the hope it will work again! You are absolutely right about grieving for the feeling like you are failing the existing child in not providing a sibling. My DD has just started asking for a baby brother and I just don't have the right answer for her. I don't know what to say.

It is hard seeing pregnant people everywhere. I am fortunate in my immediate group of friends as we all only have one at the moment, but there are plenty of babies just born or on the way in my wider group of friends and family and although I don't want their babies I would like my baby now.

Sunnydaisy Sun 28-Apr-13 15:20:40

So good to read about some success stories, really pleased that it has worked out for some of you.
At a really low ebb today after confirmation of the first iui fail. Seems to have completely thrown my cycle out too so not sure it's going to be the right answer for us. Not sure whether to try once more or just try and move on. Wish I had a crystal ball!

Lintilla Sun 28-Apr-13 18:33:01

Oh Sunnydaisy, I am so sad for you. I don't have the right words, but I am thinking of you.

resipsa Sun 28-Apr-13 20:02:30

Sunny I am sorry too. You try not to get your hopes up but it's impossible (I'm mid self-funded IVF cycle). Hope you figure out where to go next before too long.

Sunnydaisy Sun 28-Apr-13 21:05:49

Thanks Lintilla, it's so nice to know that other people can empathise and not just think that I should be happy with my lot, which of course I am.

Resipsa - I really hope your IVF cycle works out for you. Make sure you keep us updated. How are you finding it so far? If love to give IVF a go but aside from the cost, I'm not sure I'm brave enough!

Hi all- just to add a success story, I conceived DS after some trying when I was 34, we started trying again when I was 37 and after 20 months and no hint of pg, had ivf in Jan- and it worked! I'm now 16 weeks and hugely relieved. I had all the feelings you describe, trying to rationalise only having one child with my longing for a second. They couldn't find any reason why I wasn't conceiving, no problems with me or DH, and we went for ivf more because the odds were better now than if we waited another year or two and I honestly couldn't bear TTCing anymore.

So please don't give up hope!

resipsa Sun 28-Apr-13 21:30:01

Fairy congrats and great post, thanks!

teaandchocolate Sun 28-Apr-13 22:12:03

Sunnydaisy so sorry to read your news. Do you have a plan for next steps?

Thank you everyone for the positive stories they are lovely.

I am trying to stay calm and laid back about everything (not really going that well!) but at the same time I'm aware I can't afford to waste too much time. Although I don't even know what next steps would be as I am loathe to spend money on any treatment when I have a history of mc anyway.

Sunnydaisy Mon 29-Apr-13 17:05:47

Teaandchocolate - we've decide to give iui another go. Not overly hopeful but fingers crossed it's timed a bit better and will give us as good a chance as any.

Even though all the test results have come back ok, I can't help thinking there's something wrong. Guess I'm just clutching at straws hoping that they find something that could be easily fixed.

resipsa thanks and good luck in your cycle! If it works you are welcome to join us in the "pregnant ivf worriers" thread on the pregnancy page (or anyone else reading this who is going through ivf).

sunnydaisy I didn't find ivf very physically difficult, just emotionally very wearing because you have so much riding in one month's outcome. So if the iui doesn't work don't rule it out as an option. Good luck with your next try.

resipsa Mon 29-Apr-13 21:15:42

sunny I agree with fairy. When I knew nothing about IVF and it was just an abstract concept, I imagined it as lengthy and onerous but in fact on my short protocol, it started on CD2 and will be all over for me (save 2WW) by CD19 at the latest (possibly CD17). I hate needles but have managed to inject myself without a problem (doesn't hurt) and although I have had to go in for 3 scans in the last 5 days to check progress, I've just been before work so no real upheaval.

Hi all, just back on Mumsnet after a busy week. Really pleased to see so many responses. Thanks fairy and dietcoke for the success stories. Totally agree withteaandchocolate about not fitting on other conception threads. It feels very ungrateful to be discussing the problems of secondary infertility with those experiencing primary infertility. But there isn't really a hierarchy of suffering here, all infertility is distressing. Whether you are TTC #1, 2 or 3, being unable to do so leaves you feeling bereft.

We found it hard to conceive DD1, so we planned no gap and started TTCing as soon as my periods returned after breast feeding. In that time two of my little circle of (4) mum friends have had a second, and the other is currently pregnant. I envy them nothing other than their ability to plan. My friend who is pregnant had a planned bigger gap (will be 3 1/2 years) the others planned smaller gaps. Like many others, I keep revising my expectations of what an optimal gap is.

We have had a referral to the fertility clinic now, so am hoping we will start to get some answers soon. Am still undecided about treatment (but still saving up, just in case wink) but will cross that bridge when we get to it. Best of luck to those of you who are already on the treatment pathway - resipsa really hope the IVF is successful this cycle. Sunny apparently the chances of IUI working grow with each subsequent cycle, I was told to plan for at least 3.

MyFancyPants Tue 30-Apr-13 19:42:22

We're in a similar boat, trying for a year now for dc2 but no luck. I went to the Drs a few months ago and was told that we'd need to have been trying for 3 years before we could be referred and that as we already have a dc we wouldn't be a priority. I managed to convince her to do the 21 days blood test, which showed that I did ovulate, so that's something.
I'm curious if those of you who have had tests done have had them on the NHS or done privately?
Its so frustrating as we've conceived twice before, both times within 3 months, so I just presumed we'd have no problems!

dietcokeandwine Tue 30-Apr-13 20:36:31

Three years myfancypants? That sounds excessive to me, we were told a year. I had my IVF done privately as no funding for secondary infertility in my PCT - as far as I know, all PCTs prioritise primary infertility and do not offer IVF funding to any couple who already have a child. But all our initial investigations (bloods, SA, ultrasound and HSG) were done via the NHS.

May I ask how old you are? I have heard of doctors telling people under 30 that they would have to wait longer, but other than that I've only heard of people being told to try for a year before asking for test referrals. If you are over 30, it might be worth trying a different doctor!

This might help folk trying or not but I thought I would pop in to say I was ttc no2 for four years and I am currently 19 Weeks PG with a little girl dont give up. We had stopped trying so hard for about a year before bfp the in Dec we decided to start smegging again and used pre concieve for the first time and got bfp that month. Going by my boods no idea how it happened as I have high prolactin, high tsh levels anemic etc but it did so if can happen for me it can happen for anyone grin

omama Wed 01-May-13 14:37:15

Oh ladies i'm absolutely heartbroken today sad

Just found out out local NHS CCG (pct as was) dont even fund investigations for couples who already have a child. I knew we'd not qualify for treatment but am absolutely dumbfounded by this, i was sure we'd at least have more than the initial tests to find out why we are struggling to conceive. Dh's SA came back normal & my fsh/lh results were normal too, but my progesterone showed <1 - i thought this would warrant at the very least, a repeat test, but apparently not. I can't stop crying.

Looks like we are going to be a family of 3 whether i like it or not sad

teaandchocolate Wed 01-May-13 19:05:19

Omama so sorry to hear you're so upset. I take it you can't afford to start investigations privately? I saw a private consultant after my miscarriages and he ended up doing quite a lot (as much as he could) on the nhs in terms of tests and scans so I only really paid for the consultations and a private prescription for progesterone as my Gp wouldn't prescribe it. Could you try seeing a consultant privately to start off with? If you find a sympathetic one they might help. When I was diagnosed with pcos (& so had many of the tests and scans) I wasn't even ttc they just investigated my lack of periods so could you maybe give another slant to it? Or try saying you have abdominal pain?! That should also wangle a scan??!

Please don't give up hope yet.

omama which CCG? Policies will just be emerging, and you may have recourse to to the local Health and Wellbeing board. The NICE guidance is quite old now (2004) but it makes no attempt to define infertility in social terms, nor does it define between primary and secondary infertility. PCTs and now CCGs restrict access to treatment as rationing tool, based solely on funding concerns.

I would go back to you GP and ask for a referral for further investigations in secondary care to establish the cause of infertility, then you can make an informed decision about self funded treatment. The tests done in primary care are insufficient to get a proper diagnosis. Also ask to see a copy of the CCG policy and write to the CCG / local health and wellbeing board to challenge their decision.

Am angry on your behalf, the new NHS commissioning arrangements are massively over complicated, but they should include options to challenge. If you let me know the CCG I am happy to write to them.

dufflefluffle Thu 02-May-13 11:12:38

I conceived DD1 with barely a thought - maybe on cycle#2 I think. Three years later I thought I was ready to ttc #2 and .......it didn't happen. Eventually we went for fertility help and I think my progesterone levels were low. I was put on clomid. The first month it had no effect, the dose was doubled for the second and upped again for month 3, at that stage I was having blurred vision and other unpleasant side effects so I stopped taking it. I also hated the consultant I'd been to so didn't want to see him again so I decided to see if it wouldn't happen naturallyhmm I did get pregnant!!!!shock but miscarried at 8 weeks. That was traumatic. We kept hoping to conceive and eventually the whole ordeal became to wearing on our lives, our marriage and our dd and like you, I thought it was unfair to be so desperately upset all the time when I had a healthy dd whom I adored. We already had an appointment set up with a new consultant for which we'd had a long wait so we went ahead with that, I was put on something (can't remember what) that I had to inject into my stomach and then had to have a scan and another injection. We gave it one month and it didn't work. The following month I got pregnant (but wasn't taking anything) and the pregnancy went very well. I felt under such pressure too to provide a sibling for DD and she does adore her brother but they also fight a lot (despite the big age difference) and I am not convinced that a child really needs a sibling in the way that I was when I was failing to concieve. I do see how lovely it is (sometimes) for them but DD has cousins and friends around and I feel that my insistance that she'd be better off with a sibling was somewhat warped.

dufflefluffle Thu 02-May-13 11:16:58

Omama, I live in Ireland where you pay for everything (the visit to the GP to ASK him to refer me to a gynie was €50 - the consultant was €150 each time - medication cost €120 a month) it was extortionate and would have had a huge impact on our decision to stop trying. I try not to think about how much we did pay over the years. I feel for you in your frustartion and disappointment.

omama Thu 02-May-13 16:16:05

thanks so much for the support ladies,

teaandchoc - sadly private is out of the question sad

duffle wow i cant imagine having to fund every step like that i suppose we should consider ourselves lucky here then.

yorkshiretea thanks for the detailed info - thats very helpful. Itdoesnt surprise me in the least its all about the money.

I dont really want to give away location in case i out myself, anyway since i posted yest, the lady i spoke to at the CCG emailed me to say after checking out the trust's policy in more detail, turns out she was wrong. i def dont qualify for ivf treatment but it does look like i should be eligible for secondary care ie further investigations & possible hormone treatment. Just what you said above & a huge huge relief.

I rang gp to contest, & turns out they have also mucked up & were referring me for infertility treatment not investigations (how on earth they think i can be referred for ivf when i havent even had any tests to find out if anything is wrong or if ivf is even needed is beyond me). Needless to say, the eligibility criteria which gp said i didnt meet dont even apply. If i hadnt checked first with CCG they'd have sent the forms in & of course i'd have been immediately rejected.

As of this morning i now have an appointment at gynae dept of local hospital next month (i assume this is what secondary care constitutes?)

And after one cockup too many i will be changing doctors. smile

teaandchocolate Fri 03-May-13 20:56:25

Duffle your post is really interesting, thanks. I often think that I am much more obsessed with providing DD with a sibling than she is (well she is nearly 3 so happy with a doll for now) and that I spend too much time being sad for her rather than just enjoying the time when its just us 3. DD is so happy with me and DH and really seems to thrive on time together that I do wonder whether sharing our attention with another sibling wouldn't be as fantastic as I think it would. My mum told me that when my sister arrived when I was 3 I changed practically overnight into a very demanding child and used to constantly tell her I wanted to be an only child! She was surprised when I told her that I wanted DD to have the relationship I had with my sister as she thought I hated her until she was 18!! So many people keep telling me that the age gap doesn't matter as you are adults for so much longer than you are children and by then the age gap means nothing. I am slowly starting to believe them (well today I am, by tomorrow I may be a hormonal wreck again...!).

omama really glad things are starting to look up!! Its such an emotional rollercoaster isn't it. Hope you have a nice relaxing weekend after all that stress.

I just wondered what everyone's views were on when you should go and see a specialist. We have been properly trying again (after the 2 mc last year) since January and so far nothing's happened. I know I have pcos and a history of recurrent mc so probably shouldn't wait a year but I'm not sure when I should go and see my consultant again (would be a private appointment) or whether I should see a GP, and what they could do? I have been trying 16 months in total but have been pregnant twice in that time so not sure how it all works. I feel like I am old as even if I got pregnant this cycle I'd be 34 when I had a baby...is that old?!?!

Hope everyone else is ok and has a nice bank holiday weekend!

resipsa Sat 04-May-13 11:03:46

tea I had DD at 40. You are not old! Problem-free pregnancy for me too.

resipsa Sat 04-May-13 11:05:06

And if I were you, I'd get an opinion now. If it's on your mind enough to be here, you need to be investigated to stop you going mad.

Adsum Mon 06-May-13 22:27:39

Hi - I could also have written some of your posts! (Hi again res - I'm not stalking you, promise!) - with the nearly 3 year old ds, feeling guilty, worried about age gaps, friends all having 2/3 kids etc.

We started TTC dc2 in dec 2011 and got bfp straight away but had mc at 9 weeks, and then it took 10 months to get another bfp - which ended in erpc on valentines day this year. So now I'm really 17 months after starting TTC no 2 - would the gp agree to tests do you think?! I had a private ultrasound last October as things weren't happening and it was normal but don't want to pay for all the recurrent mc testing, and was told I would have to have 3 mc before tests would be done on nhs...

What do you think?

Good luck to all having ivf and thanks for all the success stories: they really help!

teaandchocolate Tue 07-May-13 19:44:15

Adsum it sounds like we are in very similar situations - we started ttc no2 a month after you and I've also had 2 mc since then. My dd is also nearly 3. I did get the recurrent mc tests on the nhs last year although I had also had a mc before DD so have had 3 in total. However I saw my consultant privately (as had an erpc which was covered by private healthcare) and he offered to test me after 2 on the nhs if I wanted. It is sometimes possible to find a sympathetic consultant although you'd need to pay for the initial consultation. I think that particularly if they can see a pattern they might agree to do some tests.

FWIW my tests found nothing and now that I can't get pregnant I wish I'd not taken so much time out of ttc for the tests - it was nearly 6 months in total once I'd waited enough time after the mc then waited for the results. However at the time I felt like I needed to do something as I was so stressed about having another mc. You still do have a really good chance of a normal pregnancy next time but I totally know how awful and stressful it is. And so frustrating seeing your due dates go by with no baby.

Resipsa thanks for the advice. I reckon I'll wait one, maybe 2 cycles then go and see someone. I'll see how mental I get if I get a bfn at the end of this one...

Adsum Tue 07-May-13 23:22:52

It really makes a difference to know I'm not the only one in this horrible situation! I feel I'm not really allowed to talk about it to a lot of people as they say 'but you've had one so you'll be fine' etc and I just feel I'm annoying them! In fact I've had such low self confidence and feelin like I'm really boring and a real downer until recently as the other problem is a feeling that one should have got over the mc's just like that!

I'm going to wait for this months af (due Friday and already got pains and spotting hmm) and see how next month goes, then maybe see GP and maybe cry at them and see what happens wink - I might actually cry anyway!!! blush

pennylovesleonard Wed 08-May-13 10:38:19

I've been ttc for dc2 for 18 months now & it's so hard!
I have dd 3.5 years old & she was conceived straight away no probs at all. I too thought it would be just as simple this time around but no luck yet.

I've had a couple of blood tests & they were fine, progesterone a little low but ok, dh's SA was all fine.
We've been refered but have to wait until July...

What I'm finding so hard it the feeling I'm letting dd down sad
I never wanted her to be an only child. She loves babies & wanders around with a teddy stuffed up her t shirt all the time

It's good to read the success stories on here & know I'm not alone, dh is much more laid back about it all & thinks I'm getting a bit obsessed ( I am totally !)

I just try & remind myself how lucky I am to have dd but it is heart breaking

Af due to today, no af but 2x bfn so not happy today

Adsum Wed 08-May-13 12:20:27

I feel just the same penny (love your nickname!) - really guilty and especially when I see how much he loves playing with his friends - my ds was so cute with a friends baby, holding her hand and stroking her head! It was sweet, funny and sad all at the same time!

Sorry to hear about your bfn's - I'm too afraid to test this month - af due in2 days and have had some spotting already - even if it is a bfp ill be so worried about mc it won't be as exciting as it should be! angry

pennylovesleonard Wed 08-May-13 20:16:36

Thanks adsum, I'm eating ice cream to cheer myself upsmile

Adsum Wed 08-May-13 21:04:19

Oops I caved and tested with an frer and got bfn... confused
Never mind! There's always next month...again!
Think I might get some ice cream!

cathers Thu 09-May-13 19:08:01

We had Ds 1 without any trouble and at when he was 2 started trying for Dc2. Unfortunately, after 6mths of trying, I had a pregnancy which resulted in a miscarriage.
Again, after one year, another pregnancy resulted in early miscarriage. When this happened yet again after 18 months of trying, we decided to give all the ovulation tests and conscious trying a break and focus on rebuilding health and mental strength. I started seeing a homeopath and a reflexologist to try and relax a bit too.

Unplanned, I had a BfP within 2 months which resulted in our DC2 being born almost 3 years after we started trying. Ironically, at the time I had the BFP, my blood test results and referral to fertility clinic arrived on the door mat! I really do believe that stepping away from the cycle of micro analysing my fertility and the pressure I was putting on myself really helped. I have sympathy for you all, it was a really tough ride but totally worth it.

Lintilla Fri 10-May-13 10:59:29

Adsum I was referred to a consultant after 2 miscarriages by my GP but I think that was because I had been trying for 2 years at the time of my first miscarriage. I had my second miscarriage in December, saw the consultant for the first time in February and am in the middle of having tests at the moment. I didn't realise it would take almost 6 months just to have all the tests, I thought as soon as I was referred I would get a magic answer and everything would be better.

I am now feeling frustrated as it has been 5 months since my last miscarriage and I've had nothing since. I'm going back to see the consultant in mid June so hopefully I will get some answers then...

It is such a frustrating journey, I really feel for everyone here.

Tw1nkle Fri 10-May-13 19:24:33

I'm going through it too! It's so hard! Everyone I know is on their 2nd or 3rd little one - just me left with only 1 - I know I'm lucky to have her though.

We've been ttc#2 for 4 years, with a MC too. I have an appointment next month to have scan etc, bloods already taken.

I'm 36, so will keep trying for a few more years!

It is so hard though - my DD is asking for a baby! And I always wanted a small age gap - it'll be 5 years at best now.

Fingers crossed for us all.

KVeggie Sat 11-May-13 09:32:06

I've been reading all your posts with tears as I am going through the same emotions. I have a wonderful son who will be 4 in September and have been ttc no2 since March last year (14 cycles). I had an emergecy C-section with him being a huge 10lb 13oz!! (I'm only 5ft 4in and have a small frame). I can't help but wonder if some damage was done having such a large baby.

I am finding this whole experience so hard to cope with lately, as I watch all my friends/colleagues with their 2nd and even 3rd births. I also feel guilty about not feeling satisfied with my beautiful boy - it's just that I really don't want him to be on his own - and it haunts me when I think of that possibility when we're older.

I am 35 and my husband is 38 and life has been tought this last year, family illnesses, house moves and my husband working all hours on the house so I wonder whether our bodies will ever be able to reproduce again as we seem to be exhausted most evenings!

I have recently been to my GP and after a few tears, he took some blood (as it was day 6) and they came back fine - I will be referred at some stage once my husband has managed to send back a SA.

Our son was a complete surprise so I had assumed that this would be a walk in the park. I work in an environment where there are lots of pregnant women and it is hard to deal with as it all seems to easy for them. People say "just try harder" or "relax and it will happen".

I wish you all lots of luck and I hope to follow this thread and hear all the good news over the summer.

If anyone has any advice please share it!

teaandchocolate Sat 11-May-13 09:42:52

Lintilla I feel exactly the same. In July it will be the one year anniversary of my last mc and I'm still not pregnant, I can't actually believe it. Plus its on DDs birthday (I spent her party last year bleeding) so I'm worrying about what to do as it brings back bad memories but I feel (again) like I'm letting DD down. I'm pleased the recurrent mc tests found no problems but also so disappointed we have nothing to 'fix'.

Tw1nkle its so hard isn't it when your expectations for your DC get totally turned upside down and I don't know why we feel such guilt.

KVeggie sorry you're having such a hard time. I also feel like I could do with some good luck for a change!!

I'm feeling a bit low today. Didn't sleep well as, after feeling so positive at the beginning of the week when I got a positive opk I now feel convinced it didn't work. No idea why but I guess its better to be realistic. I have a wedding today as well which I'm dreading as dont know many people going and need to put on a happy face and brace myself for the inevitable 'are you going to have any more children?' questions...

Adsum Sun 12-May-13 09:11:45

Oh tea I know how you feel about those questions- you feel like blurting it all out so they feel awkward but generally just sort of smile and say yes I'd love some more! and hope they get the message! I hope it wasn't too bad?

lintilla that's a long time to wait before the first mc happened - I'm not surprised they referred you. I'm about 14 months post first mc now, but will be 35 in September so don't want to wait too much longer - ill prob give it a couple of months and then speak to gp.

I'm a day late today but tested a couple days ago with a bfn and so far have had a lot of low back pain and spotting, so will test today but with the spotting and pain I wouldn't hold out a lot of hope anyway if it was a bfp! (Let alone with the awful pessimism one has after miscarriages anyway!! wink)

Lintilla Mon 13-May-13 08:34:44

tea I hope the wedding went okay. I'm terrible with those questions, I have got so fed up of them and even when I give a non-committal answer people still seem to press and say you need to hurry up etc. that I have started going into full details now which makes them back off quite quickly!

Adsum keeping my fingers crossed for you. I hate the agony of being late but with a BFN, and then the worry about what would happen anyway.

teaandchocolate Mon 13-May-13 16:22:09

The wedding was better than expected and I actually had a good time! Although one person did ask me (twice!) when I'd have another. I just said we'd like to but would have to wait and see. DH said someone else asked him. I spent the whole wedding figuring out who had children and how many, and what age gaps...argh! Obsessed!!

Adsum also crossing everything for you that you get a bfp. I know from also having mc that its not the relief it is for some people but its a good start! I read last night that fertilisation and implantation can take a while so that there's not enough hcg for a positive test until after the date AF is due <obsessive googler> So your bfp could still appear.

Adsum Mon 13-May-13 17:53:16

Bfn yesterday - day after af due. Stil some brown stringy (ick! TMI!) spotting so she must just be being late after the mmc or maybe is because I've done a lot of travelling in last 2 weeks?! I wish she'd just hurry up though!!

Glad wedding wasn't to painful tea! I know what u mean about age gaps etc - it really becomes an obsession doesn't it?!!

DreamsDoComeTrue Tue 14-May-13 03:37:45

Hi everyone, I thought I would join you to share my experiences. I have read lots of chat discussions on various websites and spent hours if not days on dr google looking for an answer to secondary infertility... which I know is not out there. No one can make our dreams come true for us and like you I have that longing every day that maybe one day they will come true.

I have a little girl who is nearly 3. Conceived in about 8 months which felt like forever at the time but isn't really that long. I was had a feeling that it would be hard to conceive but don't know why. Anyway, she turned 1, I finished breastfeeding and we started trying again knowing it may take a while. To cut a long story short, after a year we had tests done. All came back clear for me (although slightly low AMH) and husband SA revealed 100% abnormal morphology (shape) but ok count. We both cut out alocohol, I went on a high protein diet (good for eggs & because I suffered badly with anaemia). Met a specialist, recommended ivf with icsi and have just completed our first cycle which sadly failed.

For those asking about ivf, I can say it is hard and the idea of it is overwhelming but the actual process was ok. I am terrible with needles but did all the injections. Egg collection wasnt very pleasant but it's only about 20mins along and 2 days later I felt great and was back into days out with my little girl.

I think the worst thing for me is the time. I become obsessed with age gaps too. I feel like my life is on hold. Planning holidays is impossible at the moment and I worry that I am engrossed in this & missing out on precious time with my daughter.

However, on the plus side. It is great to have one on one time with my little girl. If I had certainty I would get pregnant just a matter of time, I think I would feel much better. I see many mums juggling two kids under 2 and I feel happy for my little girl that I can be there for her. I don't mean her being spoiled by attention, I just mean meeting her needs, watching every little new thing she does & treasuring it.

Hang in there ladies. I often tell myself everything happens for a reason. I haven't worked that reason out yet on this one but treasuring my little girl and making memories with her every day is one great thing. The fact that she would love a brother or sister breaks my heart. But I hope one day my dreams will come true.

Dont give up! Xx

Ps sorry for the long post but I feel better getting it down on paper!

pennylovesleonard Tue 14-May-13 10:41:32

I kinda feel the same dreams - my dd is 3.6 now & the bigger the age gap means she's more like an only child getting all our attention.
Well she is an only child but you know what I mean grin

We've been refered to the consultant but have to wait until July & the waiting is killing me... I'm not the most patient person anyway. I just want to be pregnant NOW. Grrrr

Trying to be positive but it is hard.

Lintilla Wed 15-May-13 10:03:05

Dreams I know how you feel about knowing the outcome now would make it so much easier to deal with the process.

And wrt the holiday issue, I'm trying reverse psychology at the moment. I have just decided I want to go to Oktoberfest this year so don't want to get pregnant until after then, and I've got 3 weddings to go to this summer too - I'm not sure it will work but if it doesn't I will console myself with a beer or two!

Penny the waiting is terrible, I've got my next test next week and I feel like I've been waiting for it for 6 months, but it has only been 8 weeks...

Urgh so depressed today.
There is a new baby in the family on dh's side which has prompted a fresh round of "when are you having another baby then Idbe?" And some lovely comments such as "you're not a proper family with only one child" and "it's unfair for ds to be an only, it must be so miserable!" Which is doubly insulting actually as I'm an only myself!

May I just add that dh's family are not known for their tact. They're all about as tactful as a brick.

teaandchocolate Wed 15-May-13 16:20:52

I feel for you Idbe! My DH has an elderly aunt who always insists on hammering home how important small age gaps are, how 2 years is ideal. At the park once she kept pointing out siblings and saying how nice it was, how lonely DD must be. I could have cried. She actually said at the last gathering 'oh have another baby...' Really wanted say 'well I would do if I hadnt had 2 mc and if I could actually get pregnant'. But I didn't. Needless to say I avoid her as much as possible now.

No words of widom. People are idiots!!!! Sometimes feel like moving to China where everyone only has one... wink

Adsum Thu 16-May-13 16:47:43

Tbh tea I sometimes feel we should have that rule here when I see the way some parents just mindlessly reproduce (of course I'm not jealous that they only have to exist and they become bloody pregnant!) ... and then I remember that I want another one!!

resipsa Mon 20-May-13 07:29:24

Sigh. Another friend produces DC2 and shares the news on the eve of my IVF official test date. Now, that was a tough one to pretend to be delighted by...

Sunnydaisy Wed 22-May-13 10:10:41

Resipsa, how did the test go? Hope you have some good news to share! We went ahead with another iui but sadly have all the signals again that it didn't work. Not at all ready to give up on my dream yet but feel as though I need to try. Fed up of being so emotional all the time and want to enjoy the one child we do have instead of crying for the one that we're never going to have. Just wish I knew how!

resipsa Wed 22-May-13 22:59:34

Hi sunny. It was BFN which I should have expected at 42 but somehow it has completely knocked me for 6 (as in at my desk in tears, on the train in tears, shouting at DD every night since the BFNhmm). It's clear in hindsight that I was placing all my eggs in one basket (no pun intended) and I think it's finally dawned on me this week that the probability is that DD will be my only child. I am SO not ready to accept it, though. Am currently debating (internally) how I might convince DH to try a round of IVF with donor eggs. I wish, like you, that I could let it go and enjoy DD but I can't, particularly as everyone around me is producing no. 2 (or 3). This is blighting DD's infancy for me, snatching moments that I can never relive but it's just impossible to put aside. Hope you're feeling OK.

firemansamsmam Fri 24-May-13 08:46:36

Hello everyone, I googled secondary infertility and this thread came up! So just wondered if anyone could give me some advice on what to do next...

We have a gorgeous 3, nearly 4, year old DS. i totally get the panic that so many of you are feeling about the age gap- i feel it too- but it nearly made me cry with relief reading the reassurances from some posters who have kids with big age gaps. It does help to hear that there are some massive positives to having such a big gap. As an older sister with a 6 year gap between me and my sister, I have to say that we are best best friends so it shouldn't matter to me. But then I see my DS on his own all the time and I can't help worrying.

Anyway, here's my secondary infertility story. We have been TTC since Sept 2011. I had a MMC at 12 weeks in May 2012. It was hideous and totally blindsided me to start with but I coped with it ok and hoped to go on to conceive again quickly as so many people told me I probably would.

It took four and a half months to get AF back, but my cycles then settled down to approx 5 weeks. This was positive because I'd previously been incredibly irregular.

Just 2 weeks short of the anniversary of my MC, I found out I was pregnant. I then miscarried at approx 6 weeks, 3 days after the year anniversary!
Six months age I went to the GP and he told me that they wouldn't make investigations (apart from the initial test to check I am ovulating) until we had been unsuccessfully trying for a year.

We have actually been trying for getting close to two years, but now with 2 failed pregnancies in that time.

Has anyone experienced this and if so does anyone know what the doctor would do next? Will he tell me to go away and keep trying because i have proven i can get pregnant? Or can I push for help now?

I am tempted to hide the fact that I have been pregnant recently so that they don't tell me to go away and keep trying, but feel like this could be dodgy. I hadn't been to the doctor to confirm this latest pregnancy by the way.

As an aside, does anyone have any advice on how to get my period to return, don't think I can bear a 4 month wait like last time!

I have posted on this in other threads but I still can't decide what to do.

MrsB116 Fri 24-May-13 11:36:19

Isn't it amazing when you google-it and you realise you're not the only one. After reading some of your posts I'm in exactly the same position, but some of your have mentioned treatments and I haven't been offered anything by my GP or consultant, what should I be pushing for?

I have a daughter (aged 2 1/2) she was conceived after 2 miscarriages when I was 35. I've had 3 subsequent miscarriages, my GP was very sympathetic and referred me to a fertility consultant.
Full blood tests (hormones, thyroid, iron, etc) and no issues, he said I'm conceiving but because of my age my egg quality is probably deteriorating, coupled with a streak of bad luck with miscarriages, there's nothing he can do - to carry on and hope that 'a' pregnancy will work for me.

I'm soon to be 38 and 'cross your fingers' didn't feel like constructive advise - should I be asking for further tests? treatment?

Help appreciated

resipsa Thu 30-May-13 07:31:09

Bump for this one.

Bad week here. Colleague's girlfriend had DC1 on Mon. At nursery pick up on Tues, got introduced to friend's 1 week old DD2. To see her DD1 literally gazing at baby in awe and with live was lovely but heart wrenching as that will probably never be me/us hmm.

PopcornGrace Fri 07-Jun-13 13:47:21

Hello ladies. Just want to say stay positive and don't give - unless that door is completely closed.
I went through a year of secondary infertility and 5 early miscarriages - 4 recurrent. Due to my age (39) I went private to find out after the 3rd one because my gp seemed in no rush to refer me. I had great bloods and scan was fine but I had a HSG which showed scarring on my uterus. The only symptom was recurrent miscarriage. Id never had a d&c or a c-section which are the usual causes. If you haven't had a HSG then try and get one. Anyway I had surgery to correct it and got pregnant the month after. I'm now almost 12 weeks.

Adsum Sun 09-Jun-13 18:48:34

Congrats popcorn thanks for your success story!

res how are you doing? Is anyone still on this Fred?!

Lintilla Tue 11-Jun-13 16:27:22

Hi
I'm still lurking about. I have my next appointment with the consultant on Friday to find out the results of my latest blood test and to see if I have anything wrong, and I am terrified they will say there isn't anything wrong, as there won't be anything they can do to fix it.

I hope everyone else is okay.

resipsa Tue 11-Jun-13 21:30:13

Hi ads. Think the IVF BFN has made me think the prospect of another is just a dream and will probably never be real which I am struggling with greatly. How're you?

Adsum Wed 12-Jun-13 09:16:30

Oh res I really hope that isn't the case - you deserve another one too. Are you going to try the 'old fashioned' way for now or are you having a break?

Afm, I'm just praying that this little bean will stick. I can't get excited and yet I do feel tired already (4+1!!) but I felt like that long after mmc was confirmed the last time, so who knows! Will just have to sit tight and keep my fx...

Sunnydays12 Thu 13-Jun-13 23:04:26

Hi
Im totally new to this, however I have been struggling for so long alone now I thought its about time to search for support as can not cope anymore.
I have a beautiful DS who is 5 in Sept and we have been ttc no.2 since he was 18mths old. I had many tests which all came back ok. Last year we decided to do a SA which came back as "too few to asses"!!! We were both so shocked and have been told that we cant have further investigations due to having a child.
I am so grateful for my Son, however feel guilty and sad that he will probably never have a brother/ sister!
Doesnt help that everyone around me is having babies, esp no.2!!!!
Feels like a door has been slammed in our face to just get on with our life, however I am struggling and its not as easy as that!!! Sorry for ranting

Lintilla Sun 16-Jun-13 18:00:27

Ads how are you getting on?

Sunny I don't know where you are but we have had investigations galore, but the NHS won't fund invasive help i.e. IUI/IVF. Can you go back to your GP and ask for more tests - SA can change with diet/stress etc.

Adsum Wed 19-Jun-13 22:12:47

Hi lintilla all seems ok at the moment, but I seem to have a tendency for mmcs so nothing but healthy scans could reassure me! Have booked a reassurance scan for 2 weeks (last time in Feb I ended up with a blighted ovum at my 'reassurance scan'! Not so reassuring...! So am nervous now!)

Sunny I think you should go back to your GP too - see a woman: no offence to men but its more likely that they might have more empathy I reckon - see if they could refer you for at the very least a discussion with a specialist?

fedupofrainydays Fri 12-Jul-13 14:36:22

Hello - can I join please?

I have a ds who's almost 2. Starter ttc #2 in dec 12 and got pregnant first month. Had MMC at 12 weeks in feb and nothing since..

I am so sad the whole time and feel so guilty around ds. All my NCT are pregnant or have had # 2 as are all my other friends through ds. Even my sister has 3 now. Just seeing ds on his own hurts. I am so desperate for a sibling for him.

Would I get anywhere if I went to the doctor now? Or would they make me wait? Periods and 2 ww both really painful now with cramps throughout.

Hope you are all ok ladies. This ttc is hideous. X

Just wanted to do a quick update for anyone still lurking. Sorry for opening the thread and then disappearing. I have been in a bit of TTC denial of late, assuming its never going to work so I don't even want to talk about it. Started giving away my saved up baby clothes last month on the basis that I can't hang onto stuff indefinitely and we don't have the space to store everything.

However, referral to fertility unit went ahead, had our appointment a fortnight ago. Really positive. Consultant seemed to push the straight to IVF route a bit too forcefully. Nurse much better, got me in for an internal ultrasound whilst we were there (found a small fibroid, but nothing to cause concer). Next steps are an HSG (hysterosaingography - an x-ray of the womb, similar to a laparoscopy). To be done between CD 10 and 18. Just waiting for AF to arrive now so I can book it. Nurse at fertility clinic said that there is anecdotal evidence that an HSG can dislodge minor blockages, so very well worth doing. The plan now is to wait for a couple of cycles and see if we get lucky before doing a cycle of IUI. Feels something of a relief to be in the system and to have a plan now.

Hi fedup, generally GP says you have to have been TTC for 12 months before they will start fertility investigations. But than does depend on how old you are, over 35 and they will do tests after 6 months.

fedupofrainydays Sun 14-Jul-13 14:30:15

Thanks yorkshire I'm 32 next month. I think I will ask dr anyway and see what they say. Hope everyone is enjoying the sunshine!

Hortonseesawho Sun 14-Jul-13 15:16:28

Hi I conceived in 2nd month of trying dc1. Thought it would be just as quick for dc2. Wasn't to be. It just wasn't happening. Got referred by GP for tests for secondary infertility. They checked dh 1st. Issues with sperm motility. I also had initial investigations. Nothing conclusive, suggestion that scarring as a result of c section might be a factor. During this I got pregnant, but miscarried. I was gutted. I heard about zita west, got her book and followed some advice. I just felt better doing something, rather Than feeling powerless. I also gave away baby stuff because had given up. Few months later I was pregnant with dc2! I couldn't relax throughout pregnancy, but everything went well. Good luck to everyone on here flowers

fedupofrainydays

I thought of endometriosis when I saw your message, endo is a common cause of very painful periods. I would keep a daily pain and symptom diary and show this to the cons when you see such a perosn.

I would go to the GP and ask to be referred to a gynae asap.

Hi Yorkshire Tea Drinker

HSG is a tubal x-ray but unlike a lap it can show any deformities INSIDE the tubes. Its a very useful test to have done. It should not be painful if the dye (they use about a teaspoonful) is injected very slowly and carefully. You should be given painkillers prior to this procedure. I would also use sanitary protection post this procedure because this dye does come out!. If someone can drive you home so much the better. Have had one of these tests done myself and they were able to tell me that my tubes were patent (open). Any other questions re this just ask.

Why have they suggested IUI?.

fedupofrainydays Mon 15-Jul-13 07:16:23

Thanks atilla. I'm waiting til 6 months (ie this month) then heading to doctor.. So will see then.

omama Mon 15-Jul-13 22:25:13

I'm still lurking too. I haven't posted lately, as the week before my appt for secondary investigations, I found out I was finally pg with dc#2. Sadly, 3 weeks ago, I had a mmc at 11 weeks. sad. So I've gone from absolutely thrilled to heartbroken. Its hitting me hard this week, the realisation that we've got to start ttc all over again. It took 15 cycles last time & the thought of it taking as long again is hard to bear. Am trying to be positive though, at least I know now that there is nothing wrong with either of us & so we have started ttc again straight away.

Yorkshire glad to hear you are making some progress with your investigations - hope you manage to get some answers soon & in the mean time I'll pray for a sticky bean for u too.

Good look at the docs fedup. Mine weren't really even interested til we'd been ttc for 2yrs but I pushed for initial tests after 12 months & got them. I'm 33.

LondonSuperTrooper Brazil Wed 24-Jul-13 14:05:54

This thread came up when i searched for secondary infertility.

It would be great if anyone is around for a chat. I'm 39 and TTC #2 for the last 11 cycles. I'm CD 17 into my 12th cycle. I've had all the tests done and both myself & DH are OK. IVF is the only option for us and we are slowly saving up for that.

Anyone else in the same boat?

omama so so sorry to hear about your mmc. I understand how extra awful it must feel, not only to have lost your baby, but to be fearing another long long wait to get pregnant again. However, giving you some positives to cling to, having got pregnant now, you have at least demonstrated that it is possible, and there is no reason to suppose that the is anything preventing you conceiving.

One of my colleagues (who has a DC a month older than mine) has had 2 mc and is now 14 weeks into her third TTC#2 pregnancy. It's been an awful journey for her, but she appears to have safely navigated the first trimester and it looks like this one is going to stick.

Thanks for the info on HSG Atilla. Fertility unit haven't pushed IUI, seemed to prefer going straight to IVF as the odds of success are higher. But I was worried about costs and the invasive ness of the intervention, so would prefer to give IUI a shot first. I see IUI as giving nature a bit of a helping hand, whilst (to me personally) IVF seems more of an acknowledgement that our own kit is defective and we have to try alternative methods.

However, I use the past tense in relation to my consideration of treatment options as, hopefully, we are not going to need them. I never booked my HSG appointment cos AF didn't turn up!! Am now 6 weeks pregnant. [Grin] Still POAS every few days to reassure myself that this is the case. As I got as far as a first appointment with the fertility unit, I am under their care until 12 weeks. Had an early scan yesterday, no sign of an embryo yet, so am going for another scan at 8 weeks when I should hopefully get a first glimpse of a little bean. However, yolk and sac are present and implanted in the correct location, so am hopeful for a sticky one (and very thankful I only have to wait until 8 weeks to find out).

Am very mindful that it is v v early days yet (scan really emphasised this, there was a little less the than I was hoping to see). I am desperately hoping this will stick and at the back of my mind is the fear that if I lose this pregnancy it could take another 23 cycles to get another one, but its also something of a relief to know that I can get pregnant after all.

I'm not sure what conclusions can be drawn from my sample size of one, but I can report that as soon as we had that first appointment at the fertility unit, I felt like I was in control of the situation again. I had a plan (maybe not based on the best evidence, but it made sense to me), and was taking definite action. I don't think the fact that I felt a bit better mentally had a direct causal link with my egg suddenly becoming a hitable target for DH's hitherto aimless little swimmers, but it probably didn't hurt.

Really hoping there are more similar success stories soon (and that mine does actually turn into a success story).

resipsa Fri 26-Jul-13 23:12:37

DD (2.5) asked me today if she has Baby Annabel (yeah, the doll) like her friends have (real) baby brothers and sisters. God, that hurts!

Cyd4 Fri 02-Aug-13 21:50:30

Hi All,

Hope you don't mind me butting in. I am ttc dc3, have been trying for 2 years, I am now on my 5th and last ivf/frozen embryo cycle in 10 months.

I really, really urge you all to get a copy of Dr Beers book, 'is my body baby friendly'? And look into the possibility that you suffer from immune issues as I do. I wish someone had suggested this book to me two years ago...It costs £16 or so but we have spent tens of thousands of expensive ivf treatment which was never going to work as I wasn't on the right meds. You may not even need any invasive treatment. I had ivf for dc1 and conceived naturally with dc2 purely because my immunity was suppressed by breast feeding. Had I been on intralipid drips when bf dc2 I could well have conceived naturally again.

Immune issues can be very complex but can also be very straightforward to treat and it feels like a tragedy that so many of you are wasting your precious time being diddled around by gp's or so sad trying to accept you won't have any more children when there is probably something that can be done. Unexplained Infertility is a shambles, everything happens for a reason, more than one miscarriage is more than 'bad luck'.

Good luck to you all. IF is the pits and whatever your circs, wanting to have a baby and not being able to is so incredibly painful.

Sunnydaisy Tue 10-Sep-13 22:11:47

Just stopping by to say hello. Hoping that many of the original posters have since had good news and no longer check these boards?
We've just been through an ivf cycle which didn't go terribly well so am feeling pretty sad. So wish someone would take this desire for another baby away :-(

omama Thu 12-Sep-13 08:21:47

Hi sunny so sorry to hear the ivf didnt go so well.

IKWYM about wishing the desire for another baby wld go away. We are still ttc, been just over 18months with a mmc at 11wks at the end of june. This is my 2nd cycle ttc post mc & I've been getting high fertility opks all wk & dh has decided its too much pressure so we havent dtd at the vital time. Its so hard to let go of the testing as the desire is so strong & I feel like every time we dont try its another month wasted, we're another month older, the age gap gets another month bigger. I almost want to stop as folks always say it happens when u relax, but at the back of my mind that longing will always be there, I will always know where I am in my cycle & even if I don't say anything to dh, he will know its time if I make a pass at him, so even without saying, the pressure will still be there iyswim? How on earth do you go on like this? I feel like the only way to change things & remove the pressure is to stop ttc & accept ds is going to be an only. I'm just not sure I'm ready to accept it. Do you ever accept it?
I realise some people have been ttc much longer than us & my heart really goes out to you, it is so tough. I suppose I shouldnt really moan, i just wanted to get my feelings out, dont have anyone to talk to about this irl.

Jakeyblueblue Sun 15-Sep-13 19:05:49

Hi,
Was wondering if I could join you all?
We've been ttc no 2 since around ds 1st birthday and he's now 2.2.
I'm not in the same position as some of you, in the respect that I am still bf ds and think this may have something to do with our difficulties. If any of you have ever extended breastfed you'll know its not as simple as just stopping and I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place.
Bit of background, ds took some time to concieve but we weren't exactly Dtd regularly due to working hours etc. ended up going fertility clinic and she said we needed to Dtd 3x weekly ever week and come back in 6 months if it didn't work. I caught the next cycle so assumed there was no issue and we'd not been Dtd enough but am now beginning to wonder If ds was my little miracle and there was a problem all along.
Until recently, my LP has been rubbish and that's most likely bf related due to increased prolactin levels. But I'm now taking b6 and have weaned across the day so I'm having a break of 13-14 hrs with no bf. last two cycles I've had an impressive 12 day LP but still not back to the 14 days I had prior to pregnancy. We still co sleep and he still feeds overnight and I know its the night feeds that really effect hormone control so I know I need to try to stop this but I'm dead against controlled crying and need to use gentle weaning to try to cut down feeds one at a time like I've done in the day.
I really don't know what to do next. Do I go to the gp and run some tests knowing that they are going to tell me to wean? Do I forget it and go back to it once he's weaned?? But then I'm getting older and Im worried its not the bf and I would just be prolonging getting help if there actually was a problem all along!!!
One thing I do know is that its starting to really worry me and I'm finding other babies and pregnancies very difficult to be around. No one really understands. 1. They think I ought to be lucky to have ds. 2. They think I should just wean him!! But it's just not that easy.
I used to be on the ttc whilst bf board but everyone and all the new people that replaced them got pregnant, so why can't I?? It's obviously possible!! Just feel I now ought to be in this thread rather than the other!
Anyway, sorry for the rant. Just needed to tell people who might understand.
Hope you are all having better luck in your journeys :-)

mummysmall18 Mon 23-Sep-13 23:20:18

hi everyone.
not sure how to use this site but thought id give it a go. firstly im sorry to hear all of the heartbreaking stories before me. I have read so many of them and can relate to your feelings so well.
we have been trying for a 2nd baby for nearly 2 years now. we have a little girl who is 4 (5 in january). my heart breaks each month that goes by. i tell myself each time that ill be stronger this month and look at the positives but its so hard.

I have had blood tests/scans all normal. my husbands SA on three occasions was low count. now waiting for him to be ref to a urologist as it could be queried ejaculatory duct blockage as he has other symptoms too. has anyone else been through this??

I too feel alone as I never feel I can talk to anyone about it as its so private. I think people assume as you have a child of course you can have more. I love my daughter to pieces she is my whole world but I feel the family is incomplete. each month when the cramps start for AF I feel my heart screams inside as I feel yet another month to wait. we tried for nearly a year to conceive her and had 1 miscarriage at 8 weeks. all my friends now have at least 2 babies and my sister is currently pregnant with her third. it breaks my heart when everyone asks when im going to have another and I just want to scream in their faces!!

I came on here to look for and offer support in this crazy, private and upsetting world that is secondary infertility.

i feel like I get to the point each month and say to myself when am I going to stop and get on with our lives as a threesome. but how do you break away from something and accept something that you want so much it hurts.

if anyone has been through it with low sperm count id love to hear your story.

AF due yesterday but I feel the cramps coming. I hate this time of the month and I feel every little feeling could be a pregnancy sign it drives me bonkers.

thank you for listening
xx

Just noticed some recent activity on this thread, so thought I'd come back and join the intermittent conversation. sunny so sorry to hear that the lVF didn't work. Your comment about wanting someone to "take this desire for a baby away" resonates so strongly.

mummysmall I get what you are saying about wanting to stop and get on with your lives as a threesome. I keep trying to work up to that, but I know I am not ready to let that dream of another person in our family go yet.

Just a quick update on my situation, I was pregnant, as mentioned in my lasted post, and hoping this would be my happy ending, but had a MC at 9 weeks last month. Now into my first cycle post MC, back to loads of DTD on demand during peak shagging week. Now 3 dpo and DH and I both pretty happy to be able to stop!

Omama I really feel for you re DH feeling under pressure. My DH started off all businesslike at the start of the month and wanted to be informed when we needed to DTD, but he was starting to feel the pressure. Maybe the solution is to try and step away from system monitoring for a couple of months? You will always know roughly where you are in your cycle, but maybe cut out the OPKs and move to a regular DTD during the first half of the month, rather than focusing on ovulation. I had a few months of just trying to ensure we DTD every 3/4 days from the end of my period to about CD20. The month I got my BFP we had only DTD 3 times all cycle and only once in what I retrospectively identified as my fertile window. And if you tell DH you are going to stop tracking your cycle and have a couple of months of only shagging when you feel like it, it might help him feel less pressure?

Jakeyblue I don't really have much knowledge of TTC whilst BF. I BF DD till 10 months and then gave up fairly abruptly. I had no periods at all whilst BF, even when DD was weaned during the day, so just assumed that it wouldn't be possible to conceive whilst BF. Some people obviously can, I have friends who did, but other women evidently respond differently. Obviously stopping BF should increase your chances. I don't think you face a stark choice between co-sleeping and CC. When we were trying to encourage DD to settle in her cot at night after I stopped BFing her to sleep, I had a few months of lying next to her cot and holding her hand as she went to sleep and then gradually started leaving earlier and getting her to hold Dolly's hand instead of mummy's. Or you could maybe keep the co-sleeping, but try to eliminate the night feeding? You need to reassure DS that mummy is still able to provide snuggles and comfort, just without the milk.

So sorry that so many of us are in this position. Secondary infertility is something of a secret sorrow. So hard to discuss and so hard to move on from. Hoping for some positive outcomes soon. thanks

Lintilla Sat 28-Sep-13 05:22:41

Hi All
It's sad to see people back here. sunny I am so sorry the IVF didn't work.

Tea I am so sorry for your loss. It is so painful to lose something you have wanted for so long. You are absolutely right, it is so hard to discuss and so are to move on from.

Jakeyblue when we first started trying for our number 2 my DD was 6 months old and still BF. after six months of trying I mentioned to the practice nurse that I was still BF and should this cause any issues and she said no. (I then stopped BF at 14 months in an attempt to prove my father wrong, as he was adamant that this was the cause of our failure to conceive... 3 years down the line I think I've won that argument but I stopped BF my DD far earlier than planned!) Your GP may not see it as an issue and may refer you for tests anyway.

mummysmall 2 out of 3 of DH's SA have been bad and I don't know the results of the 3rd. However I have conceived three times so there must be something there. Last year we tried zinc for a while and I then conceived in September and again December but have had nothing since so we're going to give it another try. I don't know if this helps.

I had another consultant appointment yesterday. Following 2 early miscarriages last year I was referred for recurrent miscarriage testing. Nothing came up but in June, 6 months after my last miscarriage, I was put on clomid for 3 months with day 21 progesterone tests for the first 2 cycles. The first test came back at 12, the second was 8. Yesterday the consultant decided that as I have proved I can get pregnant 3 times clomid is not the right drug for me and that the low progesterone has no bearing on conception but I have a prescription for progesterone to be taken once I get a positive pregnancy test. I am to go back in 6 months. I just don't feel this is right but don't know what to do about it. How do I even get a positive pregnancy test with progesterone that low? I don't know what to do next.

Sorry for rambling. thanks

caramelgirl Wed 02-Oct-13 13:06:56

Hi Lintilla , just popping in to say that progesterone solved our secondary infertility issues in the first month (after 18 months of mc and bfns). We'd had an HSF to no avail too. I also started acupuncture at the same time as the progesterone.
Obviously everyone is different but I had no obvious issues, and DH had good SA results.
I am eternally grateful for my DC2 (now 5 months) and it was well worth 14 weeks of "bum bullets" and all the other indignities they came with.
Best of luck to you all

caramelgirl Wed 02-Oct-13 13:08:24

Oh and I had to take the progesterone from 10 days post ovulation.

Flutternutter Wed 02-Oct-13 14:51:01

In some ways I think its even harder when its your second one. Yes, I do realise it means you have the privilege of one gorgeous child, which is of course so much luckier than many, many others ... but its such a shock when the second one doesn't happen. To be honest just because you have a child doesn't in any way stop you from desperately wanting another. I had my second child at 37, a lot quicker than the 5 years it took to get my first. My second came along quickly and naturally, Ive since found out I was going through early onset menopause and it was my bodies was of a 'last ditch attempt' thank god it worked !

I am now baking for National Infertility Awareness Week which is 28th Oct - 3 Nov 2013 ( www.niaw.org.uk) I want to do everything I can to help x

MistressofPemberley Wed 09-Oct-13 09:45:10

Just wanted to offer a bit of hope. I struggled to have a second after DS (now 5.5). Had 3 mcs. Decided to take drastic action so gave up alcohol and caffeine, improved diet and started weekly acupuncture. It was hard work and I did fall off the wagon a few times but my luteal phase increased, as did progesterone levels and when we were 'allowed' to start trying after 4/5 months treatment, I was pregnant within 3 months. Acupuncturist worked on retention, and I got through the long 40 weeks. My gorgeous DD is 8 weeks old and my DS is an extremely proud and helpful big brother. I want a third now wink.
It's been a long road and I've had to invest but obviously totally worth it. Good luck.

Lintilla Fri 11-Oct-13 09:28:06

Thank you caramelgirl, they've only given me progesterone to take after I get a positive test whereas I think it may help to take before. I've been back to my doctor to check with her and she agrees that my very low progesterone would indicate that I am not ovulating. I don't know where to go from here as the consultant doesn't see that there is a problem and my GP can't do any more than she has. I am definitely taking 3 months off trying and then will see how I feel after but it may be that we get a private consultation.

It has been three long years and I feel a bit fed up of it all at the moment.

caramelgirl Fri 11-Oct-13 10:24:46

Hi Lintilla , we had to go privately to pay for HSG, progesterone and consultations. We just went to a regular Gynae (my mum's in fact).
It wasn't as horrendously expensive as I had feared and more than ten times cheaper than IVF.
The next step would have been clomid which she said would prompt ovulation if I wasn't producing eggs as well as boosting progesterone levels post ovulation.
All my sympathies, it became my total obsession and I hated that it took over my whole consciousness.

Lintilla Fri 11-Oct-13 11:44:24

Caramelgirl Thank you so much, that has helped a lot. I think, after taking a break for 3 months or however long I decide until I'm ready again, we will get a private consultation. I have lost all faith in the NHS consultant as I have still never met him personally, just a series of different registrars who all say different things. It is so frustrating and I need to take a step back from my obsession for a while!!

littlemim Sun 13-Oct-13 20:49:31

Hi ladies, can I join the conversation?

I'm in my second cycle taking Clomid after over a year of trying for No 2. We'd have started trying earlier but DH had to work away for a long time, and I don't think I'd have managed with DD and a new-born on my own.

DD is 5 now and constantly comments that she doesn't have any brothers or sister, and then puts her old toys away for when we have a baby. It breaks my heart! Especially as my twin sister has just had her 2nd DS, both since I had DD. Her comment to be thankful for DD and buy her a dog for company didn't particularly go down well...

I have PCOS and Sjogren's syndrome which make me tired as well as causing other problems such as vasculitis flares etc. We have to plan our BDing as I'm too tired for spontanious dancing most of the time. The fact he's been away during the week for the last 3 weeks, and then again this week doesn't help either.

I just fell that I'm getting on a bit now at 37 (fast approaching 38) and the age gap between DD and No 2 is close to being too big. I can't bring myself to look too closely at when we should admit defeat and walk away.

Hugs to you all.

LM

Dawnie1984 Fri 08-Nov-13 10:09:39

This is my first post so please bear with me! I have got one child seven years old, we have been trying for another baby since we were physically able to after having him. Like others I feel guilty and selfish that I already have a baby and I want more! I see other families up at the school with more than one child and feel awful that I want what they have got! Should I not just feel like that I am lucky to have him? I have friends that don't have children and I feel awful for them that they have not experienced or have got what I have got, but I really can not help it! I visited the doctors and they have said I have got PCOS and the way to help conceive would be to loose weight, I have been trying since I had my son, also they have offered me the pill to calm my symptoms down I am trying desperately to try anything and I felt the doctor did not really want to help me! I feel so low can any one please help me with advice and how to deal with my being selfish for wanting more! I wondered if I should just give up my hope of more so I wouldn't go through the heartbreak ever month! ? Any advice is so welcome as I feel so alone and can't talk to my friends as the comments normally are ' just think you are so lucky to have had one!'

dontyouknow Sun 10-Nov-13 23:32:00

A good news story here. Got pregnant with DD 7 years ago within a month. A few years later never really occurred to us it might not be so easy second time round.

We decided not to have any tests/treatment. A few years later, pretty much gave up. Not really trying as such. Just about to clear all the baby stuff out of the garage/loft when I found out I was pregnant. Bit of a surprise but a wonderful one!

DS born a few days before I was 40, when DD was 6 1/2. As many of you say, I was constantly thinking about age gaps previously. I now think the large gap is great - there are so many benefits. With DD at school I have been able to spend a lot of time on maternity leave with DS alone, as I did with DD when she was a baby. I like that they have both had time alone with me. We have also avoided two lots of nursery fees together. DD can look after DS to some extent, so I can have a quick shower or go to the loo in peace (not easy if you have a baby and a toddler!) DD really dotes on her baby brother. She will be able to remember coming to hospital and holding him when he was a few hours old, getting the first smile from him, feeding him his first spoonful of food etc, which she would not be able to remember if there was a small gap. There are of course different advantages to small gaps but for us it has worked out really well.

I hope you all get some good news too. I know how difficult it is.

Mothersruin75 Mon 11-Nov-13 09:57:38

Hi Dawnie,
It's hard to be in the position of secondary infertility, you desperately want another child, yet feel awful for thinking like that when you are blessed to have one. This is how I felt, I distanced myself from my first post natal group who were all having their second with ease.

I have PCO but we went for further investigation and found that DH has antisperm antibodies so after an easy first conception we needed ICSI - IVF. We had many failed cycles and amazingly our final cycle worked, though it really wasn't looking as though it would. I'm now sat here bouncing my twins!

When we thought it was all over for us I kept thinking of the positives of an only child and trying not to focus on the negatives. It is so tough though and your post describes precisely how I felt.

I had a couple of good friends who helped me through who never said 'you are lucky to have one'. Have you got anyone like this? It was me that kept saying, I'm lucky to have DC and I was, when I had a failed cycle the one thing that made me feel better was a hug from DC but we were (at that point in time) unlucky to not be able to have a wanted DC2 and it hurt a lot. Infertility sucks.

goddessnic Tue 12-Nov-13 11:55:10

Hi everyone, I hope this thread is still open, I'm glad I found it. We've been trying for 3 years now for dc2, ds is 6 years old, and we conceived him literally first go. I was 35 then and 42 now so have the added panic of my age. Its so heartbreaking and people don't really understand, I dont know anyone else in the same position, all my other friends have 2 or 3 kids or are happy with one. This desperate yearning is so hard to deal with. My son keeps asking me when I'm going to have a baby too.
Ive been wondering when is the right time to give up, for my own sanity. We are saving for IUI right now and I think after that we will have to stop trying, although I know I will always be aware where I am in my cycle and the hope will never leave me. @ mothersruin yes I have had people say you should be happy with one,but that really doesn't help!

goddessnic Tue 12-Nov-13 21:36:22

Hi everyone, I hope this thread is still open, I'm glad I found it. We've been trying for 3 years now for dc2, ds is 6 years old, and we conceived him literally first go. I was 35 then and 42 now so have the added panic of my age. Its so heartbreaking and people don't really understand, I dont know anyone else in the same position, all my other friends have 2 or 3 kids or are happy with one. This desperate yearning is so hard to deal with. My son keeps asking me when I'm going to have a baby too.
Ive been wondering when is the right time to give up, for my own sanity. We are saving for IUI right now and I think after that we will have to stop trying, although I know I will always be aware where I am in my cycle and the hope will never leave me. @ mothersruin yes I have had people say you should be happy with one,but that really doesn't help!

Desperatelyseekingcompletion Mon 16-Dec-13 11:19:33

I wondered if I could join your group for support and to support others. I hope this thread is still open too.

I too am ttc#2. I have a dd aged 7 years. She is my world and I love her so much. We've been ttc for 5 years now with 1 confirmed mc and possibly a further 2/3 but unconfirmed. I no longer can bring myself to test. They have all been very early on.

I have had all the tests including the lap and dye - all clear and normal and dh has amazing swimmers so nothing came up as a problem. We are considered as having unexplained secondary infertility which is probably the worst diagnosis. I can't fix unexplained as we don't know the cause. I'm a planner and a fixer and yet I am helpless and feel unable to control this part of my life. Many think it is stress and it'll happen but what if it isn't? So many are stressed with the economic climate. Who is to say stress really has any effect....I was 28 when we conceived dd first month trying. I am now 36 and dh is 41.

I feel so helpless and guilty. My dd desperately wants a sibling and is so patient. She can't understand why we don't adopt. In her eyes its simple.
She is great with other children. She adores her cousins and she is so generous and loving. I don't want her labelled an only child and I don't want her to grow up alone. Sometimes I watch her play (alone) and feel so sad. Her sister/brother should be there to play with. Ok it can't be quite so idealic. They'll fall out, squabble and argue. That's all part of growing up and she is missing out on this. What would happen if something happened to me and dh. She'd be alone. Fear creeps in and it's irrational and still. All these feelings no-one understands unless they too experience the dreaded label of "unexplained secondary infertility" and have a yearning heart for more children. The most natural thing in the world. The very point of our existence and I am unable to complete it. I feel like a failure.

This was not in my plan. I always wanted 3 children, 2 girls and a boy last as they're babies longer. I thought I'd have 3 year age gaps and all would be wonderful. Just goes to show we have no control really in what cards we are dealt. Now I'd be happy with either and just one more.

I enjoy every minute with my dd but I cannot fill that void in our lives. I don't take anything for granted, I know how lucky I am to have a dd but I still write this with a heavy heart.

I too have questions like "when are you going to have another?" Or "you should be glad you have one" "she make a great big sister" easy for you to say when you sit there with 2 or 3.

I sit here having failed again is month. But still with hope I pick myself up on CD2 and think about the next bd for the coming month and maybe it will be this time. Sadly the feeling never goes away and whilst we pretend to relax and get on with other things, its still there in the back of my mind. I still know my dates and check for my signs.

I pray one day we will be blessed with another miracle or joy and this pain of feeling incomplete will go away xxx

goddessnic Mon 16-Dec-13 17:23:14

Hi desperately seeking completion, I'm not sure this thread is open still, noone has replied to my message of a while ago. There is another thread called secondary infertility and that was active until a few weeks ago.
Everything you said I can identify with. It was like I was talking! It made me cry. Its so hard isn't it, this heartbreaking yearning. I desperately want to complete our family but I think its looking unlikely now, me being nearly 43.
If you want support and a chat, I am around.
Nic x

stoopstofolly Mon 16-Dec-13 17:46:48

I spent 4 years TTC #2 after getting pregnant 1st time out with #1. All tests came back fine, so they couldn't understand it- I kept being told it was my age (34 when I started). I had 3 very early miscarriages, then nothing. Eventually I insisted that there had to be a medical problem and got a referral to a specialist. He diagnosed me in minutes.... Something called Ashermans. Basically it's scar tissue sticking the uterus together, and is impossible to formally diagnose without a very unpleasant internal scan. It's more common post D&C or after a traumatic birth, but I'd had neither. As it was now a "medical" problem I got it fixed easily- very small operation to snip the sides apart, pregnant the next month. The reason I mention it is that the doctor at the time said in his opinion it was a significant cause of secondary infertility, and was just missed because it's so hard to diagnose.
If you've not already been looked at for this it might be worth speaking to your doctor. Good luck.

Desperatelyseekingcompletion Mon 16-Dec-13 19:03:17

Thank you Goddessnic, it would be great to chat and support each other. I am naturally an eternal optimist so I can't let go of the hope it might work. Sorry I made you cry. I'm relieved I am not the only person going through this although I wouldn't wish it upon anyone. It's simply awful. Are you having or had any treatment? I've tried clomid but only the lowest dose. It made me evil and I felt horrible on it. We are considering IUI next year and reluctantly maybe IVF (it's the money involved that worries me and knowing when to stop!)xx

Dear Stoopstofolly, thank you for your response. I had never head of Ashermans. Would this not be picked up having a lap and dye? I had a c section with my dd and I had thought this may be the cause but it apparently wasn't. My Consultant said it was all clear and ok. I have regularly periods averaging 27/28 day cycle. Might be worth asking again. I am currently on a mission to get fit and lose weight too. I have been comfort eating which doesn't help either.

xxx

stoopstofolly Mon 16-Dec-13 21:45:27

Hi Desperately seeking! To get the Ashermans diagnosed I had to have a hysterosalpingogram,(an x-ray of the uterus and fallopian tubes). I can remember being held in place by two nurses to stop me sliding off the bed, as they have to told you upside down! As I said, my doc said in his opinion it was massively under diagnosed. Out of my small group of childbearing friends (12 women?) two of us had it. My friend only found out about it because of my experience- conceived her DS soon after the operation as well.
This is a good website
http://www.totalhealth.co.uk/clinical-experts/mr-adrian-lower/understanding-ashermans-syndrome

I can remember the desperation of those years- timetabled sex, bulk purchasing ovulation predictors, monthly disappointment. Best wishes to you all- it does happen.

Desperatelyseekingcompletion Mon 16-Dec-13 22:06:35

Thank you. I will definitely look into it in more detail. I have come across an article online from the Daily Mail relating to a specialist called Mr. Geoffrey Trew he is a specialist Consultant in Hammersmith. Do you recognise the name?

The desperation is awful. It does help when you know others have felt and endured the same. It's so nice to hear it worked out well for you. I hope I can say the same and this will eventually all be a distant memory and I can move on and become complete xx

stoopstofolly Tue 17-Dec-13 09:05:20

Me Trew is who I saw- and my friend. He was lovely and moved things along very quickly!

Desperatelyseekingcompletion Tue 17-Dec-13 09:51:39

Amazing!! I'll make some enquiries xxx

goddessnic Tue 17-Dec-13 11:50:23

Hi stoopstofolly and desperately seeking completion, I had a d and c after my son as I was haemorraging at 2 weeks post birth. I have always wondered if this caused scarring. I too had the dye thingy but everything looked normal. Do you mind me asking if you had the test done privately?
Desperately I have had no treatment as nothing is wrong supposedly, but we are saving for IUI and I am trying to lose weight.

stoopstofolly Tue 17-Dec-13 13:06:27

I'm not sure if our dye tests were the same- the test I had done involved having radioactive dye injected into the uterine cavity whilst they performed an X-ray (not fun!). I am very lucky to get private healthcare through work- insurers won't refund fertility treatment, but I presented to my doctor that I thought it could be a medical problem (gave her a whole list of real and exaggerated gyne symptoms and got her to refer me). I was lucky to be referred to Mr Trew......As it was a medical problem that was causing infertility, not fertility treatment it was covered privately, but should also be covered by the NHS.
Hope this helps!

goddessnic Wed 18-Dec-13 12:41:19

Hi yes this is the test I had, bloody uncomfortable, it felt like my insides were going to burst. The dye went through though and it was all deemed as normal. I guess that's the end if that theory for me then :-(
Thanks for the advice though x

Desperatelyseekingcompletion Wed 18-Dec-13 17:50:27

I had the same but under anaesthesia. Mine were clear too so I think it will rule me out too :0(

Still dieting and saving and praying for a miracle xx

KatyS36 Wed 18-Dec-13 21:25:51

Ladies.

I want to say the biggest thank you to all of you. Every so often you read something that changes your life and you will remember forever. For me this has been one of those occasions.

I have cried so much since reading this, and whilst it has been with sadness it has also been with the most overwhelming relief. This thread has helped me to sort out so many of my feelings - I could have written so many of these posts, but couldn't put the whole story together like you have done for me.

I conceived dd, now 4, quickly and easily at 36, and we, along with everyone else thought our next would be straightforward to, but that isn't turning out to be the case.

So many of the circumstances and emotions you have described are exactly what has happened to me, but I thought it was just me as all my peers have had their second, or made a consciousness decision not to try. Like many of you I didn't fell comfortable on other fertility sites - I've figured that for me it feels like whilst secondary infertility does deserve compassion and support, a primary infertility group doesn't seem the appropriate place to seek this.

The most heart wrenching aspect is when dd asks if we can have a baby. She would make an amazing big sister and nothing prepared me for how this would feel. I haven't been able to admit this before as I felt so ashamed and that I was a bad mother. You have helped me to see that this is one of those terribly sad things that happens sometimes and helped to remove the stigma that I felt.

Thank you again for being so brave, open and articulate.

Katy

goddessnic Wed 18-Dec-13 22:11:04

Oh Katy, bless you. Its so sad isn't it. I bet there are loads of us out there. Every time I read someone's story I cry, for the reasons you have just articulated so well. I feel like I have failed my son too, like I have failed as a mother. I can't even complete my family properly!
Thanks for your post, too x

KatyS36 Wed 18-Dec-13 23:18:38

Exactly.

I really thought i was the only one

Everybody I know who expected and tried to have another did, apart from me. I've felt delighted for everyone on an individual basis, but it feels so cruel that it is just me who is left out.

There has also been the across the board expectation that I can just have another, so it has felt like it is my fault that so far i haven't been able to.

It also feels like it rips away your support system. All those ladies with whom you shared your first now have conversations where you just feel left out. And the last thing I have wanted is to make a mother of a new second baby feel guilty.

What i have also found difficult (feel bad admitting this here, and apologies that this could be insensitive) is that I am able to afford private ivf. You read about so many women who can't that makes me feel even more guilty - I have one child AND I can afford ivf to try for a second.

At the clinic, whilst the nurses have been lovely, I feel that I don't deserve their support as much as the women who don't even have one.

Find out this week if my second round of ivf has worked.

Thank you

Katy

Shellster52 Thu 19-Dec-13 03:13:32

I am yet another in the secondary infertility boat. Been trying for two long years now to conceive no 2. Husband was diagnosed with 100% abnormal sperm missing the acrosome cap so it cannot penetrate the egg. Don't know how we got the first! Have done 3 rounds of IVF with ICSI to inject sperm into egg. Have currently got my period after 3rd IVF failure sad I am in Australia and have been going to cheaper clinic and am now fed up and have made appointment for better clinic - but more expensive. How far do I go putting our family into debt because of my selfishness to want a second when I already have number who is is absolutely perfect!

KatyS36 Thu 19-Dec-13 15:29:58

Shellster.

I'm so sorry to hear about your sad outcome. Its so hard isn't it?

A comment i read a while back made so much sense to me . It was an obstetrician and his observation was that a lot of older mums spend so much time and energy trying to have a second that they forget to enjoy their first. I've been determined not to fall into this trap, or at least minimise how far in i go.

I always knew that I didn't want to still be there in three years time having round number eight-although I fully respect the decisions of others who want to go down this route.

One of the key questions we asking before starting ivf was how many rounds. We got what for us was a very helpful answer.

It was a leading professor, and he said that for most people who ivf is going to work for it works in the first Three or four rounds. After this, while there are some folk who get lucky in round five, or eight, this doesn't generally happen. This view has been backed up elsewhere.

Then and there we made a firm decision that four would be our maximum.

My decision now is if to carry on past round two, as I've had a really tough time with side effects and I feel it's taken so much time and energy away from the family i already have.

I realise this is a very personal decision and views, so I don't want to imply this is right, ots just right for us.

Good luck with whatever you decide

Katy

resipsa Thu 19-Dec-13 16:41:16

Katy, have you had your test result? I got a BFP from IVF round 2 on Sunday but started to bleed on Tuesday. It's not looking good. Life sucks is an understatement.

KatyS36 Thu 19-Dec-13 19:23:35

I'm so sorry.

I get my results tomorrow.

The only positive at the moment is that I am feeling so much better than at any point in the last 8 weeks as the drugs (particularly the bucerelyn) have worn off now. Sadly though I expect this sudden feeling of wellness isn't indicative of pregnancy.

Katy

goddessnic Thu 19-Dec-13 22:38:19

Katy please dont feel guilty about being able to afford ivf, if I could afford it I definitely would have it. I am going to do whatever I can afford to in order to conceive a child.
I know what you mean about your support network disappearing, my friends are on their second or third child.
Good luck with your ivf results this week.
Good luck shellster and resispa fingers crossed x

goddessnic Thu 19-Dec-13 22:45:24

I also worry about not enjoying the child I already have, in fact about a year in I noticed I was really unhappy and not enjoying him. I make a converted effort now to enjoy him as much as possible. It's bitter sweet looking at him when I have found out I'm not pregnant yet again.

KatyS36 Fri 20-Dec-13 17:16:54

Bfn

I'm sad that I won't be having another baby, but gutted dd won't get to be the big sister that she longs to be. Feel like I'm failing her, and my dh.

Katy

goddessnic Fri 20-Dec-13 18:15:45

Oh katy I'm so sorry x x

You are not failing your daughter or your husband. We cannot make these things happen however much we will it.

resipsa Sat 21-Dec-13 09:33:59

Katy - sorry. Beyond shit. Hope you are OK.

goddessnic Sat 21-Dec-13 11:54:24

Resispa how are you doing?

KatyS36 Sat 21-Dec-13 22:11:48

Thank you.

Before I started this round I was quite philosophical. After actually getting some embryos and thinking what might have been its just heartbreaking.

Away for Christmas and family don't know so no space.

Thinking of you guys and thank you for your support.

Katy

Shellster52 Sat 21-Dec-13 23:04:30

So nice to have found this thread.

Thanks for you comments Katy. Yes that obstetrician must think we are crazy from an outside viewpoint. We have a beautiful child in front of us and we are spending our time alone and upset about a child we don't have. Can't help but still do it though!

I too have heard that if IVF is going to work, it usually happens in the first 3/4 rounds. Gulp. Doesn't look good for me who has just had round 3 fail. I had a great quality embryo last round but BFN. Just read a study that thin lining (<8mm) reduces implantation chance by 80%. Vaginal Viagra supps during IVF help correct this problem. I have a super light two day period so I feel I need to give IVF a go while correcting this issue before I can say I have given it my all and have peace at the end of it all.

I have however been going to a new and cheap clinic and I can really see how they cut corners to save costs. I have now booked an appointment at a top class IVF clinic for 7th Jan. Hope they can address my thin lining.

Goddessnic, thanks for your well wishes. I know exactly what you mean when you say it is bitter sweet looking at the child you have when you get more bad news.

KatyS36 Sun 22-Dec-13 22:11:19

Hope things go well with your new clinic-sounds like a sensible move.

With the enjoying your first quote, just wanted to say that the context it was written in was constructive and compassionate, as opposed to judgemental. I think that is really important when you are trying to decide where it applies in your own life.

Take care

Katy

Shellster52 Mon 23-Dec-13 05:12:22

Thank you Katy. So am I reading correctly that you have decided not to do IVF anymore and are moving on? It would be nice to have my life and my mind back but I just don't know how you do it! Not sure if age is a factor for you or if you have been given any reason for your secondary infertility that helps your decision. I hope you find peace. I am 36 and feel like I have to go hard at TTC so that I can look back in peace and know I gave it 100%. I have been trying to take a practical approach to all this and learn from each IVF - and I have seen embryo quality improvement with all 3 cycles. So that gives me hope to go on. After having read about thin linings drastically reducing implantation success, I have to give it one more go while this problem is being rectified to know I have tried everything.

Have you been given any explanation as to why your IVF's haven't worked? Sorry, you may not want to be thinking about this if you are trying to move on. I am just trying to learn from everyone's experiences.

goddessnic Tue 07-Jan-14 09:39:02

Hi all. I have just had a negative pregnancy test but am really confused. My period is late, and I'm never late, I have had 4 days of mild cramping and now my breasts are getting painful and tingling. I ovulated late this month ( day 18) so today was only 11 days after ovulation. I'm wondering if its too early to test.
Do you always have periods after ovulation? Maybe just missing a period this month. If so, this is not good news for my fertility.

Desperatelyseekingcompletion Tue 07-Jan-14 11:08:03

It may be too soon to test. I am having a strange month too. I have had sore breasts since cd19 now on cd23 and very sore. My cycle is 27/28 days. It's unusual for me to be so sore so early. I've not tested. I can't bare the disappointment.
I hope you get a BFP - maybe try again in a few days or consult your GP?

goddessnic Tue 07-Jan-14 11:45:07

Hi desperately, thanks for your reply. I hate it when our bodies do strange things. Normally everything is like clock work for me - ovulate day 15, 27 day cycle. I will try again in a few days. Good luck x

Desperatelyseekingcompletion Tue 07-Jan-14 11:55:39

I'm so similar. I get ov sign (ewcm plug sorry tmi) on cd11. I'm 36 so I do wonder if its an age thing but seems very early to have sore boobs. Thinking of visiting my GP too xx

How long have you been ttc? Xx

goddessnic Tue 07-Jan-14 13:44:35

I get that too,egg white and cervical pain the day of ovulation. I usually get sore boobs a few days after ov.this month I have just started getting sore but have had tingling.
Trying to Conceive for 3 years. I'm nearly 43 though :-(

Desperatelyseekingcompletion Tue 07-Jan-14 16:45:55

Fingers crossed we both get lucky this month. xx

resipsa Tue 07-Jan-14 16:54:43

Hi guys - see you're active! Hate my life at the moment. Had IVF in Nov, +ve test in mid-Dec, a few days of utter bliss when I felt that the weight had been lifted then, bang, started to bleed a little and a scan on 31/12 (Happy New Yearhmm) showed an empty sac. Twice in 2 years. At 43, am I just too old?

Desperatelyseekingcompletion Tue 07-Jan-14 17:27:34

Oh bless you! How horrible. Not the way to start NY. No words can make you feel better I know but I don't think you're too old. Look at that lady (actress) in her 50's from shameless. i'm sure she has just had her baby via IVF. On a positive although it may not feel like like it at the moment you have conceived maybe they just need to sort the next stage for you? Not that this helps I know. My dh and I are planning iui this year and then IVF and I dread it in case it doesn't work and/or we run out of money.

Xxxx

resipsa Tue 07-Jan-14 17:56:48

I think we might have just got a bad egg but for second time in 2 years, feeling unlucky to say the least. We're going for round 3 and it's getting eye-wateringly expensive. Should we spend the cash on DD instead? Probably but this urge for no.2 is too strong.

Desperatelyseekingcompletion Tue 07-Jan-14 18:24:49

I can imagine. Third time lucky?!? A friend said to me make sure you have no regrets and you try everything so even if you look back and it didn't work you know you did all you could. Hopefully it will be positive next time. The money and anguish is my stumbling block and I need to get weight down too. Lots of hurdles xx

goddessnic Tue 07-Jan-14 21:19:13

Hi, sorry resispa, that is awful. That must be so painful. I dont think 43 is too old, if you can afford it go for it. We're going to go for IUI thus year too, saving up now and trying to lose weight. Its just so bloody emotional.

Ladycurler Sun 12-Jan-14 19:40:08

Can I join? I am 40, conceived no. 1 in month 1, wanted to wait til he was a bit older before trying for no.2, thinking naively that it would be easy! he is 5 now and i am now on month 32ttc, had 1 early miscarriage 23 months ago and no joy since. Currently trying acupuncture, doc says no problems, hospital advised a holiday...
It's just nice to know that I am not alone, I don't talk about it much to anyone as don't want sympathetic looks every time there is pregnancy/birth news. It's such a taboo subject.

Ladycurler Sun 12-Jan-14 19:44:26

Oh also meant to say, does anyone else have very pale pink discharge 2 days before period arrives? Sorry I don't know all the abbreviations!

Desperatelyseekingcompletion Sun 12-Jan-14 21:39:25

Hi Ladycurler,

Sorry to hear you're having a difficult time of it too. You sound like your having exactly the same symptoms as me. Unexplained infertility - horrible!! I have also m/c v early and then nothing. I also conceived dd now 7 years on month 1 and naively assumed no2 would be easy and who wouldn't?? We have tried the holiday, sadly to no avail. Been trying 48 months+ I am sure I have had 3-4 v early miscarriages but I no longer test as I find it so upsetting. This month my GP was convinced I was pregnant short of doing a test. I had very sore (.)(.) since cd18 which is abnormal for me and I have a very regular cycle averaging 27days but on cd26 spotting started and t.o.m came early - gutted!!

I don't get the pink discharge 2 days before but I do get ov sign on or around cd11 which is pink tinged. It's like ewcm.

Hopefully we can all support each other here and ultimately get babies at the end of it.

xx

goddessnic Mon 13-Jan-14 09:44:40

Hi ladycurler and desperately, we also comcieved or son first month, so I thought there would be no problem the second time! How wrong I was.
I get that pink or brown discharge a few days before coming on too. Its hard because you can't distinguish between that and implantation bleeding.
I was convinced I was pregnant this month too, I didnt have pmt like normal, bit tingling boobs then cramping for four days but no period. I had then what looked like implantation bleeding, but 2 days later my period came late, and I'm never late.
I think this will be our last year of trying, I can't keep doing this indefinitely, for my own sanity's sake! X

VoilaAnotherGimlet Mon 20-Jan-14 19:07:57

Hi ladies, may I sit on the feckin-shite bench with you? I have a 3yo son who I adore, and I can't give him a sibling and it is tearing me apart. (medical story below)

It is bloody lonely, isn't it? I feel guilty for my reactions as if they are over reactions, no one really understands.....I certainly didn't, before. I need to not sink into deep depression. I don't know how to save myself.

(The medical bit: conceived ds after a year of trying. MC March 13 (6 wks), mc July 13 (10 wks), ectopic Nov and bye bye right tube. Left horribly buggered as far as they can tell from outside. We always said we wouldn't do IVF. I don't know now. It isn't the financial cost so much as the emotional cost. We had a terrible year and are not sure we can face it again. Yet deciding to stop is as hard as deciding to risk everything. I spend a lot of my time wishing it was other than it is. )

VoilaAnotherGimlet Mon 20-Jan-14 19:23:46

resipsa sorry for your recent loss, that really does sound shit. Hope you are managing. It is like paying to stand up and have someone smash your face in with a spade, repeatedly.

Is katy still lurking? I want to hug you right now.

desperately and ladycurler, unexplained must be agonising. I feel like I would rather not know but it isn't really true.

VoilaAnotherGimlet Mon 20-Jan-14 19:34:25

Sorry, missed nic off the unexplained bit too. It really is crap. And shellster sorry for your recent loss too, hope you are ok.

The success stories are nice. I dare not hope though.

Am about to call employee assistance. Has anyone sought counselling of any sort?

Desperatelyseekingcompletion Mon 20-Jan-14 21:36:47

Hi voila, nice to hear from you! Not knowing the reasons is very cruel. I have had counselling which was good and helped a bit but that is another journey in itself. I stopped because I just wasn't ready to admit defeat and deal with how that feels - does that make sense. Where have you found the success stories? I'd like to read them. I still live in hope. My dd is still asking for her sister and I pray one day she'll come. (A boy would be equally amazing!) xx

VoilaAnotherGimlet Tue 21-Jan-14 15:45:53

Hi desperately, I know what you mean about moving on. I feel like I should now move on and the limbo is crushing me. I guess I am still wishing for a miracle and if I can come to termswith IF then somehow I will win a miracle. Utterly crazy.

I called the employee assistance line and they are setting up some counselling. Grief counselling or stress relief I expect. I work 2 days a week (lightweight, I know!) and last week a hospital appt fell on a work day. The gynae only confirmed what a google had revealed, except remaining tube is really really deformed. Oh, and I may not qualify for paltry nhs IF treatment as I am technically not infertile...... So, I went to work but felt sick and dizzy and went home. I even had a temperature. I couldn'teat. Called in sick the next day too. I have a new boss who seems sympathetic, but being new she doesn't know I am not a complete loon usually. I feel incredibly stressedall round. And to top it all we are trying to move house too. Argh!

goddessnic Tue 21-Jan-14 18:33:08

Hi voila, welcome to the feckin shite bench as you put it, great name! I'm sorry about your mc and ectopic, what a shit year you've had. It is soul destroying isnt it. I think this is my last year of trying, I'm 43 this year and have had enough. I think counselling is a great idea, I will definitely seek some out if it hasn't happened by the end of this year, I will need heko with acceptance and grieving x

goddessnic Tue 21-Jan-14 18:33:48

*Help not heko!

resipsa Thu 23-Jan-14 21:15:39

Aah, I have to return to those who understand tonight. Lost the plot when looking at Facebook (why do we do it to ourselves) posts about a friend's DD's birthday lunch (our DDs were born two days apart) which I missed cause I was at work - bad mummy - and most didn't cause they are on mat leave. Feeling so left behind by them and even on here. I was on a conception thread and am the only one not to have got pregnant. Now I'm on an IVF thread and it's going the same way!
<dissolves into self pity>

goddessnic Thu 23-Jan-14 23:01:51

Hi resipsa sorry you're having a bad time. Facebook is a killer isnt it, two of my friends has babies this week, two more a month ago and there are so many photos of their newborns. Plus other friends pregnant bellies. There's no escaping it!

resipsa Fri 24-Jan-14 07:17:22

Hi Nic. Last night was topped off when received another birth announcement!

goddessnic Fri 24-Jan-14 17:46:04

Oh God resipsa, not another one!

resipsa Sat 25-Jan-14 19:57:44

Why is it these NEVER bothered me before DD?

Bittersweet day today. Lots of DD's friends have Dec, Jan, Feb birthdays but today was probably the last big party. They're 3, growing up and growing away (just a bit). It might be my only time (unlike 99% there who have a babe in arms/belly).

How're the rest of you?

VoilaAnotherGimlet Sat 25-Jan-14 22:25:27

Oh resp I know exactly what you mean. One of my nct lot has been complaining about pregnancy symptoms and I have been mentally very very mean to her. A good friend is due next week, the same date bar a few days as my second failed pregnancy last year. I have had to ban myself from facebk. It is shit.

I had my first counselling session. I am having to give her the benefit of the doubt as it was only the first one, but she pretty much told me the stuff I could have heard from any kindly woman at a bus stop. She knew women who had been told they couldn't have kids but went on to have loads. It happens when you relax and stop trying. Siblings don't necessarily mean best friends as she only speaks to one of her four siblings. Hmm. She also said I should take B vitamins

VoilaAnotherGimlet Sat 25-Jan-14 22:30:44

sorry, phone rubbish.....

and omega 3 and eat more coriander, eggs, avocado and turkey, take more exercise and get daylight in order to lift my mood.... Anyway, I am going back next Thurs, so fingers crossed she'll say something that doesn't sound like she got it from the Daily Fail. She did say I should give myself a break. I think she is right there, everything has been quite raw of late. I am dreading the next few weeks. For my first mc due date I had a steaming migraine which made me throw up

resipsa Sun 26-Jan-14 15:25:02

Eek, Voila, hope you're not paying her too much! I'm sure it'll be more helpful as she gets to know you better.

resipsa Sun 26-Jan-14 15:32:30

Voila - just reread your backstory. We both have 3 year olds. Having number 2 seems like a now or never moment, doesn't it? From my ante-natal group of 13, only 3 of us now have just one. One is by choice and the other has separated from her partner. I'm the only one who has 'tried and failed' and I can see that the topic is beginning to make some of the others weary (and I'm sure they all secretly think it's down to me for having left it until my forties).

resipsa Sun 26-Jan-14 15:34:30

Don't be too hasty to rule out IVF. I said that I'd 'never' do it but underestimated the effect that not having a second would have. Up for round 3 in Feb, I hope!

VoilaAnotherGimlet Sun 26-Jan-14 20:05:24

Arf, I am not paying her at all, it's through an employee assistance programme, thankfully. But my thoughts exactly. Though I must admit to having felt a little more relaxed since than before. It is so hard to tell what causea what sometimes. She has asked me to keep a mood diary. I am hopeless and have not yet started.

And tell me about it re everyone moving on. Of my nct six, two have their second, two are pregnant. One was having difficulty too but we arent really keeping in touch and I hope she is now pg as she was feeling so low. I bestow my good vibes very carefully, this lark has made me very mean!

We haven't ruled out ivf but the success rates are so depressing. At the moment I cannot think about it and, today anyway, I am happier not thinking about it. Last week I was feeling desperate to start. Or to at least go and find out the actual likelihood. I am 39 and (today) trying to mentally minimise the age issue. I think it may well be another shit year.

The age gap issue really bothered me last year, before Game Over flashed up. There is 3.5yrs between my sister and me which has always worked perfectly. That is all up the spout anyway now.

I do wish I could parent properly right now, H is going through a difficult phase and I am exacerbating it. I feel I am letting him down atm.

goddessnic Sun 26-Jan-14 22:50:47

Hi resispa and voila I had an ok weekend, I'm sort of thinking it won't happen for me now. 43 in a week, we haven't been able to try this month as dh was injured in a car accident. Saving up for IUI is going to take us forever.
Blimey that's a lot of cliches from your counsellor voila! But if it makes you feel calmer its worth it.
I think age gaps are irrelevant really,siblings either get on or they don't.
Take care everyone x

BranchingOut Sun 26-Jan-14 23:15:14

Signing in here, have a lovely boy age 4 and teetering on the edge of IUI. But gritting my teeth as a close family member is about to give birth, also after secondary infertility issues...delighted for them, but....

Also feel 'now or never'.

resipsa Mon 27-Jan-14 07:41:13

Hi everyone.

Hmm, age gaps. It does worry me that too large a gap will impact adversely on DD as a 3.5yr+ younger sibling would mean she'd lose out in some way but what do I know, that's probably rubbish!

I was pregnant (but had m/c) in early 2012, with a gap of 21 months on the cards which I thought was ideal but looking back would have been hell! Then this time (also m/c) it would have been 3.5yrs which I'd talked myself into being ideal; more time with DD as pre-schooler, still off on mat leave when DD starts school, easy to take both to Oz to see grandparents next Feb etc.

Now, who knows?

VoilaAnotherGimlet Mon 27-Jan-14 16:43:16

It is a daft thing to worry about in the circs, eh? I would be so bloody thrilled to have a successful pregnancythat I wouldn't care in the event, but it certainly caused tears last year. I have read there are benefits to a larger age gap though, less jealousy etc. I worry about H's loneliness. He certainly appears to require my constant attention <weary>

Hi branchingout. It is so hard waiting for someone else's baby when time is passing you by to no avail. Are you another "unexplained"?

VoilaAnotherGimlet Mon 27-Jan-14 18:10:33

Am a complete loon. Officially. Just plummeted from fine to depressed, a train of thought triggered by.......a jellybaby.

I think I may need to bring my next counselling session forward....

BranchingOut Mon 27-Jan-14 18:36:43

yep, unexplained secondary infertility

goddessnic Mon 27-Jan-14 23:33:05

Lol voila, well anything can trigger us off, its an emotional time! Hello branching out, welcome to the thread, sorry it's in such shite circumstances.
My boy is nearly 7 now, I have been upset by the increasing potential age gap over the years but now I dont care, I just want to complete my family :-(

resipsa Tue 28-Jan-14 11:30:58

smile at jellybaby.

I was in a good mood yesterday and rounded a corner to come face to face with a mother (looking pretty hassled, I accept) and her TWO pre-school children. That's all it needed to make me feel less than fine.

Even being woken at 3 and 6am today does not make me wonder if 1 is enough or, rather, if I want to do it again.

We're all mad, aren't we? Hey, at least I have company in my madness.

BranchingOut Tue 28-Jan-14 13:53:07

I am finding this period around my family member's 'confinement' to be bringing this all into stark relief. Feel a bit irrational about it and am overdue to phone her, but feel that I might do something ridiculous like ask her not to use particular names....

I had a slight pang when I saw the gate at the station which is for pushchairs etc also says 'for pregnant women'.

BranchingOut Tue 28-Jan-14 13:55:51

Also just back from a holiday where we met a couple who had a girl and twin boys 18 months apart, who seemed to be pointing out that all the only children they knew were fussy eaters whereas their children...,

And what am I supposed to do with that tip?!

VoilaAnotherGimlet Tue 28-Jan-14 20:18:47

Oh branching, that is hard. I am sure you wouldn't blurt anything out but it is awful to feellike that. Has the family member been sympathetic to your feelings?

And re the couple on holiday, bet theirs start eating nothing but cocoa pops any day now. And taking turns to wake every hour through the night. People just don't think (and I am guilty of this so I do try to be forgiving.....unless they are horrible/I take a dislike to them....)

VoilaAnotherGimlet Tue 28-Jan-14 20:19:32

On the upside, the jelly babies did not upset me today.

SwimmingMom Tue 28-Jan-14 21:45:19

Godessenic - same boat here!

I wonder how did I ever do it the first time!! confused

Booked for tests this month, just want to know if there is any hope at all.hmm

resipsa Tue 28-Jan-14 23:18:09

Branching - send 'em to mine. DD - just 3, 21kgs, head and shoulders above most 4 yr old boys, in 5-6 clothes and with size 11 feet (shock) -would prove the theory wrong. She eats EVERYTHING!

Ladycurler Wed 29-Jan-14 16:08:16

I have been having couselling recently as I was worrying about everything but I think the unexplained infertility was at the base of it all, she was good but a bit the same advise as the bus stop lady, don't dwell in it, have fun all month round, don't think about dates etc etc, which is difficult when the dates are programmed into your brain! She was referred by the dic, our area have a wellbeing clinic. hubby and i had a nice wee night away at the weekend, prime ovulation time...time will tell, I hate these next 2 weeks when the optimism returns only to 'normally' be shattered. Branching out, I have a neighbour who keeps telling me how wonderful it must be to have an only child, she has 2, I want to hit her!! You must've been mad at the twin +1 couple! Xx

resipsa Wed 29-Jan-14 16:46:41

Hi Lady. Sometimes you just want someone to acknowledge (i) that the yearning for no 2 is no different than others have it for no 1, (ii) that life is unfair to us in this regard and (iii) that it's a bit shit, don't you? But people don't, they just go on churning out the stupid platitudes. Grrr!

VoilaAnotherGimlet Thu 30-Jan-14 09:14:25

LadyC that is interesting about your counsellor too. I am going again tonight and will report back. I am not sure what I want her to say that would be better than platitudes. A "yes that is a shit situation" might be nice.

And no pressure LadyC but we need a win on this fred now..... Have my cheerleading pom poms and am giving encouraging shakes.

BranchingOut Thu 30-Jan-14 12:01:37

Thanks all, yes I was a receiving a real vibe from them of 'you must have a pampered only child' whenever the conversation strayed on to parenting topics.

Good luck for the counselling tonight, Viola. I hope that she has reflected a bit in the meantime and thought about what this means to you, rather than uttering platitudes.

VoilaAnotherGimlet Thu 30-Jan-14 13:15:33

It is a bit like when parents say that child free couples lead selfish lives. I cant think of anything more selfish than opting to continue your gene pool. No one has kids for the kids' sakes, do they? I know I didn't. (Though with kids there is less time for navel gazing....or is that just me?)

Missteacake Fri 31-Jan-14 15:13:03

I have just read all you posts and have laughed and cried all at the same time within a twenty minute period. Sometimes no one can understand unless they have been in your shoes. I didn't even know the words secondary infertility existed until we started TTC #2. We have a DD aged 4 1/2 who is wonderful and all the time people say when's the next one? I used to make something up like I didn't want another no time etc ...... Now I just say I can't conceive I'm infertile it shuts people up quite quick! I have a lot of scarring due to an EMCS has anybody else had the laparoscopy to get rid of it did it work? My doctor has been really good so I feel really bad for people who aren't getting access to testing etc. anyway fingers crossed for everybody xxxx

BranchingOut Fri 31-Jan-14 15:47:12

Hmm, what's this about laparoscopy to get rid of scarring?
I have some scarring too, but I am not sure that it is affecting fertility.

BranchingOut Fri 31-Jan-14 15:55:02

For me, that is, but I am interested to know more...

Missteacake Fri 31-Jan-14 16:14:56

My doctor told me today after a trans vaginal scan that she wants to perform a laparoscopy to get rid of the scar tissue as it could be affecting conception. She also said I could conceive naturally as well and until she goes in she won't know the extent of the damage. My womb is distorted from the scarring so implantation could be the problem. She also said people who have had a section generally take longer to conceive especially if they have scarring but it's all percentages as generally people aren't 100% fertile or 100% infertile so I might just need to up my chances by removing the scarring she is also giving my tubes a MOT (cleaning them with pipe cleaners perhaps?.....) smile scarring can affect fertility but it might not effect you as everyone different.

DownunderGal Wed 05-Feb-14 05:31:48

I'm so glad I found this thread! I have felt so utterly alone with this secondary infertility nightmare. Anyway, I'm 39, had my 5 year old easily like everyone else. We had miscarriages back then though, but pregnancy was easy so it was assumed it would be again. Ha! Wasn't I the fool.

Three years later, three IVFS and almost every test possible and I haven't been pregnant even once. How does this happen? We've transferred top quality embryos every single time, one that was PGD tested normal and NOTHING. I'm so devastated and tired of this process and so angry of the time I've missed with my little guy sad Not to mention the loneliness I imagine he's suffering without a sibling. Gawd, this sucks. And of course, everyone has had their second and are onto number three/four. I found out a month ago that a neighbour had an accidental pregnancy at 46. What the hell is wrong with me?!

Anyway, we've stopped trying for the next couple of months while I see the one and only Reproductive Immunologist in Australia as our last option left. If this isn't an immune issue it's likely age related and our only option is donor or adoption. My husband wants neither. I will likely end up with one child and the desperation I feel about this is eating me alive.

I'm so glad I've found you ladies. I hope this thread is still open and stays open, and if anyone else here is from Australia I'd love to know how you're doing, as everyone here seems to have about three kids each and I feel like a failure every day I leave the house.

Sorry for the Debbie Downer post. This has been a very long ride.

DownunderGal Wed 05-Feb-14 07:19:57

I thought I'd also mention that the age gap isn't really an issue in my mind. I was the eldest of three girls and my sister who is six years younger is one of my best friends - the sister with less than two years than me is NOT a friend. My neighbour has eleven years between hers and they get in great! I'd take any gap at this point - sadly I suspect I won't be so lucky.

Yep, still Debbie Downer, lol

VoilaAnotherGimlet Wed 05-Feb-14 09:14:02

Hello DebbieDownunder. Your situation souds desperate - it is utterly soul destroying. And your neighbour falling pg at 46 by accident? - total cow! My continuing-to-be-rubbish counsellor told me last week that she wasn't maternal and hadn't even wanted a second but her husband persuaded her. The more I think about it the more I think I need a new counsellor. I'm glad you have that apt coming up - do keep us posted.

Had a bit of a downer last night. Friend who shared my due date for second mc had a baby girl on Saturday. I weathered it fine for a few days (which in itself had me worried - I knew I shouldn't have - thought I was getting off lightly). Anyway the chickens came home to roost last night. And I feel ok today. I just don't know how to process it all. I have never been one for compartmentalising my feelings but I am finding I have to avoid thinking about it, which of course leaves it all bubbling away in my subconscious.

I've just had a really short period too. Stress? I'm usually a (tmi alert) 7 full days of quite heavy stuff, wearing layers of protection for the first few. I am feeling sad my body isn't even having a proper womb lining to shed. It's all rubbish.

AND my phone won't let me post here, stupid pile of crap.

Cakey - are you going for your lap? Did your doc mention that you'd have to wait a few months after to let your area recover? It wasn't mentioned to me till after, but your doc sounds sensible at least.

Missteacake Wed 05-Feb-14 10:12:05

My doctor was very reassuring I really felt she knew what she was talking about. I didn't ask all the questions at the time that keep popping into my head now!!! Very frustrating I was a bit over whelmed at the time to be told there was a problem but I was hugely relieved that she didn't just say its one of those things. I feel huge sympathy for those that have to hear that must be a nightmare. At least I know what the problem is. Does anybody know if it's acceptable to email or write a letter to your consultant to ask them any question that you didn't think of at the time? I don't want to be a pain but it's at least 18 weeks until my lap I might go crazy by then? I'm not sure about how long I have to wait after. I have never heard of a c section affecting secondary infertility until I came I here but I had a pretty horrific first labour and birth so I wasn't completely surprised. Although I have a very healthy four year old and for that I am eternally grateful. Doesn't ever stop you wanting a second though does it??

DownunderGal Wed 05-Feb-14 10:55:55

Thanks Voila, it really is a desperate situation! But I also think maybe time is slowly ebbing away my resolve to keep trying. I don't know - they never figured out why we can't get pregnant again and that sucks! I mean, how does someone go from super fertile at 34 to completely infertile at 36?? Seems BS to me but so far there are no answers. I'll see what this immune testing reveals (Dr Beer tests apparently; they're sent to Chicago from Australia) and if nothing is flagged I might try IVF with immune treatment anyway and then finally admit defeat sad

And sorry you're down too. Your counsellor seems to share a lot of her opinions. Have you thought of trying a counsellor at a fertility clinic? They really understand this issue better than most and wouldn't dare mention their own pregnancies! But at least you're seeing someone - I should do that.

Missteacake, I had a lap mid last year and did IVF two months after. Recovery wasn't too bad, just a bit of bloating and my first period was heavy and painful. I didn't have scarring like you but got scraped out anyway, tubes flushed etc, and honestly my doctor would have let me do IVF the first month but we were waiting on results that took time. (The natural killer cells biopsy - negative of course, but worth checking.) So I'm guessing you'll be able to TTC as soon as you feel okay.

Has anyone here had immune testing? I'm curious about the treatment, and the allo immune tests. Apparently some of us can form a reaction to further pregnancies because we carry similar genes to our partners. I don't see how this is possible when my husband and I are from different countries! But I guess we need to cross the T's and all that. Our appointment is at end of month so I'll be sure to share what the specialist says.

I'm sure someone else I know will be pregnant by then too. My best friend and sister are both expecting now. Ugh. I'm starting to think my husband would do a better job at pregnancy than me.

Missteacake Wed 05-Feb-14 11:07:34

Thank you downunder that's very reassuring to know. Good luck with your immunologist appointment hope you get some answers.

RosinaCopper Wed 05-Feb-14 11:50:02

I'm sorry, I haven't read the full thread, but wanted to add my support to all of you suffering with secondary infertility. It is the most frustrating thing to be told that there is no explanation other than being older.

My story is that it took 3 months to conceive ds1 (I was 35 at the time). When he was a toddler I thought I had accidentally fallen pregnant and remember looking at the test and being really upset and thinking 'oh no!' and how much that came back to haunt me when I struggled to get pregnant a second time. I had all the available tests, including ovarian reserve, and hysterosalpingogram and everything came back as normal. I had a chemical pregancy after 24 cycles of trying. I was obsessed with the idea of getting pregnant and would test from way too early before my period was due and of course get loads of negative tests. I spent a fortune! I finally fell pregnant on the 36th month of trying and at age 40, having registered to go for IVF, but before starting any drugs. This pregnancy stuck and turned out to be twins!

I got so annoyed with the number of times people said 'just relax and it'll happen' 'at least you've got one healthy child' etc etc, because it really wasn't helpful to hear. I distanced myself from people I'd met when ds1 was a baby, because they were having their 2nd and 3rd children and I found it really tough to be around them.

I also seem to remember a book called Taking Charge Of Your Fertility was useful (I don't have it anymore, I gave it to a friend in a similar situation and she also went on to have a second child after much heartache and a bigger gap than she'd 'planned' .)

I really feel for you ladies who are in the position that I was in - I know how depressing it is, but how it's something very few people understand, unless they've been there too. And I also know that hearing my story might make a lot of you think 'well it's okay for you, then, but you're not me!' and I understand that, too! But I did want to share, as I'm think I'm probably older than most of you and think that it might perhaps help people who fear they are getting too old.

Best of luck xx

VoilaAnotherGimlet Wed 05-Feb-14 16:55:15

Thanks Rosina - I do like a success story to keep us going! I conceived my son the cycle after a ridiculously indulgent 2 weeks on a sun lounger in Thailand so I buyinto the "relax" narrative....though sadly for me it would also take a medical miracle (blocked remaining tube). And with a 3 year old when would I get time to lie down with a stack of books for two weeks? We have considered a holiday without ds but couldn't bring ourselves to follow through. And we want to spend timewith him and cherish him if he's the only one. And.....now I am tied in knots again. Stress cycle!!

Twins though? Argh! Delightful and yet terrifying! Have they arrived or are you pg now?

Downunder glad your lap recovery was swift. Guess mine might be pulling a bit due to tube removal....and anyway I am now basically barren so the conception after part was all a bit moot anyway. I think a fertility counsellor eould be of more use, need to look into.

Ladycurler Wed 05-Feb-14 18:13:15

Viola, you need a new counsellor, she is not being constructive at all! Friends having babies is the wirst as you have to be happy for them, they feel guilty for you and everyone ends up feeling awkward...

Rosina, twins will be great, happy news after a lot of heartache.

RosinaCopper Wed 05-Feb-14 21:09:39

Viola relaxing is great. Being told to relax often had the opposite effect on me! (Although I do wonder in hindsight whether the fact that we'd started down the IVF route made me less stressed as I was being proactive?) And given what you've said above, a holiday without your ds might not be as indulgent and relaxed as before - you'd be thinking about him all the time! How about an indulgent weekend away, though?

My twins are very much here (born 2010), very hard work and very much loved and cherished. But yes, delightful and terrifying just about sums them up!!

DownunderGal Thu 06-Feb-14 05:15:14

Rosina, that's a great success story! I'm 40 later this year so definitely in the 'old' bracket. Thing is, I can't imagine trying for 36 months so you're far stronger than I am! I've gone crazy trying off and on for 24 months with IVF thrown in. I'm ready to give up I'm so over it. Does the bfn each time you get a period ever get easier?! I don't even bother testing anymore, and the next couple of months I'm not even trying at all as I need a break. I'm also convinced I'm having really early chemicals off and on too, another sign things are just not working anymore. So unfair.

I know for me it's probably time to move on and find acceptance as there really is no reason for my infertility other than age and there's no fixing that! Still, how do we let go of the family we always wanted? Can only children be happy, fulfilled children?

Will this get easier with time?? sad

HalleLouja Thu 06-Feb-14 06:32:00

I thought I would share my story. Ds was conceived in the second cycle and as he was premmie was actually born on our 9 month wedding anniversary grin .

Dd was another story entirely and I lost the plot. She took 18 cycles to conceive. It was the month we went to the fertility clinic that I got pregnant. All tests before that had come back normal. We didn't do anything differently. We were under external stress but had just had a lovely holiday. It was just one of those things. I had just taken up running and lost a bit of weight. But wasn't huge to start with.

Anyway when I look at dd now I think she was worth the wait. We wouldn't of had her otherwise. She is wonderful.

HalleLouja Thu 06-Feb-14 06:35:20

I was also on a thread similar to this. I tried alternative stuff snd think hypnotherapy helped me relax and focus on other things.

VoilaAnotherGimlet Thu 06-Feb-14 08:45:28

Rosina your twins are the same age as my son then! I absolutely cannot imagine two of him! When we were told IVF was the only way I started fantasising about twins - girls actually, no idea why. I think I am sadly, like Downunder, needing to draw a line and come to terms with my family being complete as it is. It is really hard. I think it was the ectopic society that has a pdf on deciding to stop and they say it's common to make and unmake the decision many times. Downunder I am the same age as you - milestone later this year. Feels a bit devastating given the situation I find myself in.

Anyway - distraction distraction! But is is also good to let it out, especially with you lot who understand and don't spout meaningless claptrap. Halle, thanks for sharing your story - I do like a success story! Can I ask, did you also try acupuncture? It is so expensive but I am tempted, though not sure how many sessions would be required. Can't pay £50/session weekly for the foreseeable!

In other news, I am wearing a new top and look quite nice today <preen>

HalleLouja Thu 06-Feb-14 08:47:33

I tried acupuncture but not convinced it helped. Its a bit woo for me.

VoilaAnotherGimlet Thu 06-Feb-14 08:47:35

I wish there was a way of having IVF without noticing so much. I would do it in a flash if it was low key and didn't involve massive hope and crashing disappointment. (I'd also have to have the other tube removed I think, something about toxic leaking.) I'd do it if it wasn't a big deal.

<goes back to thinking about pretty new top>

VoilaAnotherGimlet Thu 06-Feb-14 08:48:00

Thanks Halle. How many did you try?

HalleLouja Thu 06-Feb-14 09:10:33

I had a few sessions. I can't remember it was 4 years ago now.

VoilaAnotherGimlet Thu 06-Feb-14 10:10:26

I too am a bit anti-woo - I think you need to not be sceptical for it to work. Do you think running was a better de stressor? Toying with starting when the weather improves, think it would be good for my mental state. I had a natal hypnotherapy cd, it was excellent for napping to <misses the point>

Gawd, I just want the moon on a stick! Is it really too much to ask?? sad

HalleLouja Thu 06-Feb-14 10:19:23

I did c2 5k and got half way through the programme before getting pregnant. I think it gave me something else to focus on.

DownunderGal Thu 06-Feb-14 22:58:34

Voila, what month do you leave your thirties forever? I'm turning 40 I'm August and I'm not happy about it! I figured I'd have a baby by now for distraction but that doesn't look to be the case. I will be hitting this milestone sans second child and it's only making it worse. Ugh, I wanna time machine! I'd go back and have three kids in my twenties like my sister. I always thought she was crazy for that, but now I think she was the smart one.

And not a woo fan here either. I was drunk, eating holiday food and staying up all night when I conceived DS around christmas 2007 without realizing, yet apparently now I need to eat organic, quit wine (no way!) and get needles stuck in me to conceive?! Yeah, I doubt that. If that we're the case, three quarters of the worlds population wouldn't exist. Luckily, my fertility specialist thinks it's all nonsense too. Still, I try to do everything in moderation, which I wasn't exactly doing when I conceived DS in the middle or holiday party season, lol.

And Voila, I don't find the IVF process too bad physically. It's a little annoying time wise, but the injections and egg retrieval weren't as bad as expected. I had 17 eggs out last try and felt great a week later. However, you're right about the crash if it fails. I won't even sugar coat that part as it really is SO much worse getting a bfn after IVF than just trying naturally. It's like a major slap in the face after all the time and money and then nothing. That's why I'm stuck thinking I might just move on now as I'm really not sure I can go through it again. Though, my first couple of goes I coped better than number. 3, so maybe try once and see how you feel? But I completely understand if you can't, as I'm there with you sad

I need a distraction too. At least it's summer here so I'm getting out a lot and swimming etc. I turn 40 in the middle of winter though, so stay tuned for more sob stories lol

Hi folks, can another newbie join? I'll have a trawl back through the thread to learn all about you but here's my story. 35, have one DS who's a lovely bundle of three-nager boisterousness. He took 9 months to conceive so I wasn't expecting a fast one for number two - am now in cycle 13. Had preliminary tests done on both of us at cycle 9, all well, doc said he'd be surprised if we weren't pregnant in a few more cycles. Ho ho, the jokes on him.
Mega stressed at work, have just been through the hell of selling a house and still trying to find somewhere to buy, so all is not favourable for a relaxed attempt at conception. Started reflexology yesterday which was lovely, and we're giving it another cycle before we go back to the clinic and ask for more tests or take the IUI route. And all the while, everyone around me is getting pregnant or giving birth - including my sister who has actually been pregnant twice in the time we've been trying for #2 (although one was a mc so not really envious of that). All in all, this stinks. We've given ourselves that deadline of the end of the year before we throw in the towel and accept our family is complete. I can't imagine making that choice.

resipsa Fri 07-Feb-14 15:09:33

Hi Worrisome. We have 3 year old too. Had 4 friends round today who I met through having DD. They all had babies with them. Sigh. I am getting used to it and get to hold them, too.

resipsa Fri 07-Feb-14 15:10:54

Not to depress you but DH and I decided to give it to the end of the year to conceive no 2...in 2012! Starting FET (frozen IVF) in March!!!

resipsa Fri 07-Feb-14 15:14:46

Downunder - I think you're my Australian twin! I could have written your posts. We've done 1 OE (BFN) and 1 DE IVF (BFP but m/c at 5+4) cycles. Starting FET from DE cycle in March. When I knew nothing about it, I imagined IVF as a lot more involved than it really is. As you say, the very worst part is the failure when you've invested so much emotional energy (and cash).

resipsa Fri 07-Feb-14 15:22:23

Oh, and meant to say to the 39ers, don't lose hope yet. I had DD at 40 after 12 months (but you can discount 2 or 3 for rows when DH claimed he couldn't just perform to order (!) and another 2 or 3 at the beginning when I was clueless and DTD on CD 12 or 13 then expected to be pregnant - only later did I find out that I ovulated on CD 18!).

VoilaAnotherGimlet Fri 07-Feb-14 19:58:46

Thanks Rosina - I do like a success story to keep us going! I conceived my son the cycle after a ridiculously indulgent 2 weeks on a sun lounger in Thailand so I buyinto the "relax" narrative....though sadly for me it would also take a medical miracle (blocked remaining tube). And with a 3 year old when would I get time to lie down with a stack of books for two weeks? We have considered a holiday without ds but couldn't bring ourselves to follow through. And we want to spend timewith him and cherish him if he's the only one. And.....now I am tied in knots again. Stress cycle!!

Twins though? Argh! Delightful and yet terrifying! Have they arrived or are you pg now?

Downunder glad your lap recovery was swift. Guess mine might be pulling a bit due to tube removal....and anyway I am now basically barren so the conception after part was all a bit moot anyway. I think a fertility counsellor eould be of more use, need to look into.

resipsa Mon 10-Feb-14 22:24:09

How's everyone doing here? I've got a date (well, sort of) for our frozen IVF cycle. In true fashion, going completely OTT in calculating due date, mat leave, age gap etc!

That's good news Repsiba - when are you starting?
Nothing new from me apart from DH and I vacillating back and forth between wanting to see the consultant immediately and being ostriches and 'seeing what happens'. Anyone else get sick of the amount of headspace this all takes up? Oh and yet another FB pregnancy announcement.

BranchingOut Tue 11-Feb-14 10:52:09

Hope everyone is well. I am just bracing myself for my sister to give birth.

I phoned at the weekend and I could tell they were (quite reasonably) in that 'we're just about to have a baby' moment, all 'no news yet' and 'just getting ready for the little one's arrival'...Gah.

No emoticon for 'why isn't it us'.

Ladycurler Tue 11-Feb-14 11:45:30

Hi girls, rubbish weekend for me, optimism crushed again, a new baby announcement from friends, buying 2 baby cards, meeting friends who have an 8 week old and pitying glances of 'will she be ok' when I offered heavy heatedly to feed her to let the mummy eat. Worrisome heart, I agree, my head is just in a spin all the time! Branching out, sending you hugs, it's just the pits!
Resipsa, did you use ovulation kit to establish cd18?
My period as arrived today but have had pink discharge since Thursday, does anyone else have this? I have this every month. My fertility Acupuncturist thinks I'm damp and not enough blood?! Losing faith in him too gggrrrrrrr......
On a positive note I feel better having a moan, sorry to be grumpy. Xx

Treadlightly Tue 11-Feb-14 18:13:47

How do you all deal with seemingly endless pregnancy announcements?!

All of my friends are either pregnant or just had a baby. One is even pregnant with twins!

I'm just getting so depressed about it all.

Im 36, been ttc for 2 years now & have a 4 year old dd.

I've been taking clomid for 5 months now & still nothing.

Been thinking about some counselling? Has anyone tried some?

BranchingOut Tue 11-Feb-14 18:52:41

Two babies, well, that's just greedy!

resipsa Tue 11-Feb-14 19:13:50

LadyC - yes, OPK used and the first time I used a digi one, I got pregnant (but m/cd) so I swear by them!

I've just been grinning and bearing it with the pg announcements. It's ok when it's at the arms length of Facebook.

ladycurler I get brown/pink mucus for about two days before AF arrives properly - I didn't before I had my DS so not sure what changed.

The reflexologist I saw last week said that one of the 'crunchy' areas was the Fallopian tube on the right side which is the only place I ever get ov pain, not sure what that means but am obviously now panicking about post EMCS scar tissue. Fun times.

omama Thu 13-Feb-14 10:14:08

Hi all. Not been on for a while so just wanted to say welcome to the newbies - sorry you're having to join us here.

Pg announcements are awful aren't they - I am surrounded by it at work too atm which is pretty tough. Its really hard not to sink into the depths of depression but I guess like worrisome says you just have to grin & bear it. Thankfully I've got through that stage with all my close friends - they now all have their dc2 & while I found it terribly tough at the time & I am always secretly envious when I see them with their lovely new babies, I see them struggling to manage a toddler & newborn & try to focus on the only positive I can think of - that my life is easier than theirs right now!!

Keep making plans - don't put things on hold incase you might be pregnant (eg a holiday) - carry on with as much normality as you can muster. In fact book a holiday because its times like that when you are all relaxed things can often happen!

We sadly had a mmc last summer & have now been ttc for a total of 2years. I've been temping & using OPK's this month & absolutely zero sign of ovulation. This isn't the first time this has happened - it happened in the autumn & when I went for the first round of tests with the GP my progesterone levels came back as zero, but that was the month before I fell pg so I guess I've been in denial a bit. Anyway I'm now making an appointment to see the doc again. I'm 34 & hoping there is something they can do.

Tread - did your gp prescribe clomid or did you have to see the fertility clinic?

Treadlightly Thu 13-Feb-14 19:08:52

Omama - my gp referred me to a consultant at the hospital & he prescribed the clomid.

I think I can only take it for 12 months.

Yes yes to the not putting life on hold! We did that all last year... Didn't book a holiday, put off moving house. Then I got fed up with it & we are going away in April & we're moving!

I've tried acupuncture & reflexology .
I really like the reflexology so am going to try that again.

Just feeling a bit down about it all at the moment

threepiecesuite Sun 16-Feb-14 22:45:01

Hello, I'm an avid reader of this thread but only ever posted once or twice. Sorry we're all here really.
This is our 20th month of ttc #2, AF arrived today. I am regular as clockwork, never been late by even a day. Ovulating normally, dp is fine, blood tests normal. Why the blinking heck is it taking so long then?
I try not to get too down but it's hitting me hard this week as our lovely DD turns 4. Dr says come back in few months but don't even know if she can do anything. It's just awfulsad

Ladycurler Mon 17-Feb-14 11:44:30

Any advice on the ovulation kits? It says I have not to pee for 4 hours before I test, I find that impossible!! I also read on a blog somewhere, that I've not to test first thing in the morning, though it doesn't say that in the instructions.desperate for it to work this time, my babe is 5 and this is cycle 32...

omama Mon 17-Feb-14 22:49:37

ladycurler - which opk's are you using? internet cheapies or clearblue? I've read that about not testing too, think something to do with the particular hormone levels being higher/most concentrated in the afternoon, however I use clearblue & they say you can test first thing. I've always done this as I too find it difficult to hold on for hours on end! Until my mc I always got a positive result.

threepiece sorry to hear you've been on this journey a long while too. If you don't mind me asking - how old are you? Have you just had the initial day 2/21 bloods or have you had anything else like scans etc done? If you haven't, I would check with your local NHS trust if you are entitled to investigations (my GP said I wasn't but turns out I was) & then ask GP for a referral. I totally understand how hard it is as our DC get older - my DS will also be 4 this year too - can't believe how quickly its coming around. Just try to focus on your DD & enjoying her special day, & eat lots of cake!

The thing I'm really dreading is DS starting school - think being at home in an empty house half the week is really going to bring it home. FX'd it happens before then!

threepiecesuite Tue 18-Feb-14 00:22:51

Oh omama I know, I am already putting plans in place for Sept so I am busy when I'm not at work.
I'm nearly 34. Only had day 3 and 21 bloods, fine. Got an appt tomorrow so will request scan.
I had a colposcopy and loop excision last summer for cin3 cells after a dodgy smear but dr thought it shouldn't have any effect on fertility, in fact quite the opposite.

omama Wed 19-Feb-14 20:59:59

threepiece how did your appointment go?

Are you worried that the treatment may be what's caused your troubles? Did they have to remove a large part of your cervix? Sorry if that's a bit personal/tmi, just wondered as I've also had treatment for in3 but had never considered it could be a factor. Mine was about 5 years ago though & only was a smallish area removed, & I have had ds since.

Did you ask your GP about it?

Only a week to wait now for my appointment with my GP. Can't come soon enough!

threepiecesuite Wed 19-Feb-14 21:29:44

I'm being referred for an ultrasound, and an appt at the fertility clinic (which takes a while).
Dr thought the treatment shouldn't have caused any probs. I had a large area lasered but none snipped off and the follow-up appt showed a pink healthy cervix.
Feel glad to have got the ball rolling again.

omama Wed 19-Feb-14 22:33:24

Thats good news. Fingers crossed you get some answers.

Think it'll be a while before we get referred - am at new gp now & its been a year since the initial bloods were done so suspect we'll have to run through them all again.

Tallalime Tue 25-Feb-14 13:52:05

Hello all. I am now at 2yr TTC no 2. DD was 6 in January. I feel awful that we can't give her a sibling, she is so desparate for one sad

We started investigations at yhe end of last year. DH is normal, I am ovulating so I have been referred for a Hycosy which sounds a bit daunting.

Every time I think I have come to terms with it someone else announces their pregnancy, or I find a note from DD requesting some brothers and sisters.

AF is regular as clockwork. I just don't know what to do sad

threepiecesuite Tue 25-Feb-14 19:09:15

Hi Tallalime. I feel your pain. Our dd is 4 and we've been ttc 2yrs too. DP is fine, I'm ovulating and blood tests normal. Got ultrasound and fertility clinic in a few weeks but tbh, if all's normal, they can't do much for us sad I doubt we could afford ivf.

I have hope in that 2 close friends of mine had their dds then a 7 year gap filled with anguish but finally got there just by being patient and both have lovely ds's now too.

Finding the notes must be hard. My dd talks about other people's siblings but hasn't asked for one (yet). She has two lovely slightly older cousins so at least there are other children in the family. I'm dreading her going to school in Sept. I work part time and have enjoyed our days together so much. It's all horrible isn't it.

omama Tue 25-Feb-14 19:20:30

sorry you are here too Tallalime. That must be tough getting the notes from dd. A couple of times ds has said 'when we have a baby it can sleep in there' [points at spare room] but has never actually asked yet. Am dreading that point.

How are things threepiece? Have you got your appointment now? You sound quite down. Its so hard not to let this eat you up isn't it? Have some flowers

I'm now on cd39, tested & bfn so no idea what's going on with me this month. My dr's apt is tomorrow, time to get the ball rolling again & see if anything shows up this time around.

threepiecesuite Wed 26-Feb-14 11:43:26

Yes, appt in March so wasn't as long to wait as I expected. Lucky to live in between 3 decent hospitals so can choose between them.
Feeling a little better as back at work this week so no time to dwell.

How did you get on with your dr omama? Our dr was an almost retired chap but a younger lady dr has taken over and she's great, very easy to talk to.

resipsa Sat 01-Mar-14 00:18:32

Just bumping this one - had a nice day with friends today but left with a niggle that I refused to/couldn't identify until now - they all have a 3 year old like me AND a baby. When will it end? hmm

Sunshine201457 Sat 01-Mar-14 16:34:03

Having same problem im in my 20s fell pregnant with my daughter after 4 months i was thrilled shes 5 now and my partner and i decided to try for another its been 3 years and havent been able to concieve, i finally thought this month i was pregnant after missed period. Sadly my period did show up, after getting some advice/ reading on posts i am going to see the gp to see if they can help me. It breaks my heart when my daughter asks for a brother or sister (i ways say to her maybe soon) im hoping that i can eventually get pregnant again, since weve been trying a family member has had two lovely children and is pregnant again. Im very happy for them and makes me want to have the experience myself again x

omama Sat 01-Mar-14 21:19:42

oh resipsa I know, I was at a party today & met a close friend who is currently preggers & she sat & moaned about how she hates being pregnant & hates the baby stage - I just sat thinking how much I loved being pregnant & how I would give anything to be pregnant again. sad

threepiece - dr apt was ok thanks. She was very sympathetic & understanding, but despite us having ttc for 2yrs already, because of the miscarriage, she can't do anything in terms of referral til its been a year since I last conceived (end of April). In the mean time I have to have my bloods repeated & DH has to do a repeat SA & we've just got to keep on trying. Plus I've got to try & lose a bit more weight.

Feeling relieved as AF finally arrived (2 weeks late) so I am going for my day 2/3 bloods on Monday morning.

omama how frustrating having to wait for longer despite all the history. Hope the bloods provide some insight.
I've had a crap few days - it's been a really different month 2ww wise, and for the last part of the week I've been feeling exactly as I did when I was pg with my DS - and my normal pre -AF spotting didn't happen, so I course I've basically decided I was pregnant. And then lo and behold, spotting starts today. So that's onto cycle 14 for us. Am calling the clinic tomorrow to arrange a consultation to talk about options - maybe a hycosy, further bloods, not sure what they can do for a couple with apparently no issues (which is where we were at the last checks).

omama Mon 03-Mar-14 21:31:56

boo to the witch worrisome. Sounds like a call to the clinic is definitely in order.

welcome sunshine sorry you are joining us too.

had my first lot of bloods this morn - GP had ordered FSH/LH & I'm also having insulin levels checked (family history of diabetes) but I noticed she hasn't asked for thyroid tests. I thought thyroid function was routinely tested as part of the initial infertility tests - is it not the case?

I told her about my difficulty losing weight & my low BBT (& various other symptoms) so automatically assumed it would be tested (it was last time under a different GP). hmm

BranchingOut Sun 09-Mar-14 20:27:28

Maybe give her a call and see if she can add it on?

Are you being referred to the clinic? It may be worth doing this asap. I am sorry to say that my fertility consultant was a bit scathing of the results that I had brought with me from my GP eg. they seemed to test for quite a few different things at the fertility clinic and I wonder if I wasted some time getting the GP tests done. For instance, he said that FSH/LH was useless without an Estriodial (sp?) level.

I know that this might not be what you want to hear, but if it saves you from wasting time...

keeponjuggling Mon 10-Mar-14 15:35:32

Hi all, can I join you please?

I will need to take some time to look through the thread and get to know you all, but I think I may have found a thread full of wonderful ladies in a similar situation.

It took a year to conceive DS so we knew we were in it for the long haul, but quietly I hoped I would be one of those people who fell pregnant quickly the 2nd time round. But here we are cycle 15...

I had bloods taken and it confirmed ovulation so all good there, that was in Oct last yr. GP asked us to go back in Jan, for some reason we haven't made the appointment. Not entirely sure what's holding me back, I just have a bad feeling...rubbish explanation I know.

I was wondering is anyone using a clear blue fertility monitor? I'm seriously considering buying one before going back for more testing. Would love to hear your thoughts.

Welcome juggling! Your story sounds very similar to mine - right down to the not wanting to follow up with the docs, I kept saying to DH 'let's wait anther month and see what happens'. And then nothing does...

We used CBFM for about 6 months last year - I've stopped now as it was just adding a layer of stress to an already anxious time. Plus the sticks are ridiculously expensive! We're now just carpetbombing during days 11-18. Fun times. :D

keeponjuggling Mon 10-Mar-14 16:14:28

Thanks Heart, its odd isn't it. I have no idea what I'm afraid of!

Thanks for your thoughts on CBFM, I know exactly what you mean. Its already stressful enough, I don't think I could handle anymore.

It doesn't help that every cycle I'm convinced its happened, and then AF shows up and I'm genuinely shocked every time...hmm

Ladycurler Tue 11-Mar-14 08:05:43

Dear Mother Nature, you are a horrible sick woman for puting us all through this monthly misery. I am a great believer in everything happening for a reason but I can't get my head around this torment that you put us through every 4 weeks, or in my case, 3 days late this month. I am so so angry today and gutted and empty and my friend who has a big summer wedding planned has just announced a whoopsie pregnancy, HOW CAN THAT HAPPEN when we are all planning it to such strict dates and still nothing. Month 34 here we come, though not sure I can do this for much longer. sorry girls, anyone with good news? X

threepiecesuite Thu 13-Mar-14 14:38:24

juggling- I was just like you, went for bloods then didn't go back to GP, was just so scared that something was wrong and blissful ignorance was preferable. Did pluck up the courage 2 weeks back, all tests normal so now booked in for scan and fertility clinic appt. Feels good to be actually doing something, letting Mother Nature take charge wasn't very successful.
Well out of my 5 friends from antenatal class first time round, 3 have had second children and the last one, who is my best friend is fairly sure she is pg. She broke it to me gently. I'm so sad. It's month 22 for us.

keeponjuggling Thu 13-Mar-14 15:07:59

Lady, 'whoopsie pregnancies' are heartbreaking when you are trying to damn hard every month. I hope you are feeling a bit better today. I can't imagine how you are feeling, 34 months is a long time to wait for something you want so badly. I really hope it happens for you very soon!!

Three, thank you so much for sharing your experience. I hope you get some answers, and of course a BFP, soon.

I'm torn between being proactive, and wanting to leave it to nature. I like to believe things happen (or in this case don't) for a reason, its my way of coping I suppose. It is hard when it seems like everyone around you is either expecting or has baby number 2.

goddessnic Fri 21-Mar-14 20:44:10

Another friend told me she was pregnant today, her first go at IVF after over 3 years of trying for her second, like me. I felt happy for her, not kicked in the gut like I've felt with other pregnancy announcements. I'm not sure if that's good or bad? I think I'm gradually accepting it probably won't happen for me :-(

resipsa Fri 21-Mar-14 23:13:03

Goddess - thanks - but I find it easier if I know the announcer has 'struggled' too. That's shameful to admit because they are no more worthy than those who conceive easily but it's true. This stuff changes your perspective and, in my case, makes you bitter.

We took DD out for tea tonight and were the only ones in the place with just 1 child under 10. 5 years ago I'd have looked and the ones struggling with 3 of them and felt sympathetic but superior because then I didn't want the 'drudgery' I associated with children. Now I feel pure envy hmm.

Sorry, no help!

goddessnic Sat 22-Mar-14 00:09:29

Hi resipsa, I do that too when we're out, look around and notice how everyone else seems to have 2 or more children. There are constant reminders everywhere aren't there.

Turquoisetamborine Sat 22-Mar-14 20:12:54

Hi, I'm on the IVF thread but I'd like to join this one too as I sometimes feel a bit of a fraud as we already have a sone aged 6.

My story is we tried for 18 months before getting preg with son when I was 28. I fell pregnant on first month of clomid so although it was tough, it was a walk in the park compared to trying for number 2.

When I had a section to give birth they told me they'd found I had a unicornate uterus which means I have one ovary, one Fallopian tube and one kidney on the left side. I'd had scans during fertility investigations and they didn't even notice this so it shows how good they are.

I knew it would be hard to conceive another baby so i put it off for a while then we tried for a year using a Duo Fertility monitor. They gave us our money back after a year of no success. I then had a laparoscopy and hysteroscopy which showed my one tube was patent. I tried clomid for another year with no success. We are now three years on and I'm in the 2ww of my first ivf cycle.

I hope all of us on this thread don't have to deal with thus heartbreak for much longer.

resipsa Sat 22-Mar-14 22:13:56

Hi Turq!

goddessnic Sun 23-Mar-14 20:54:43

Hi turquoise tambourine, it's so hard isn't it my period arrived today do that's us well into pur forth year of not conceiving our second.
good luck with your 2ww xx

resipsa Sun 23-Mar-14 22:13:15

Nic - thanks.

My walk in the park failed to uplift today. It just reminded me of all I've lost - the dads (mine died in June 08), the dogs (12 Jan 14) and the babies (March 12 and Dec 13).

Turquoisetamborine Sun 23-Mar-14 22:45:48

Hi Res sorry you're feeling down, hope tomorrow is a better day.

Bloody period Goddess. It never gets any easier. Sorry.

goddessnic Tue 13-May-14 22:55:41

Hi girls it's been quiet on here recently, hope you're ok. Another period started today :-(

Turquoisetamborine Wed 14-May-14 07:27:01

Hi Goddess, sorry another AF has shown up.

I'm waiting to do ivf again, looking like July for my second cycle. Are you trying naturally?

goddessnic Thu 15-May-14 11:12:53

Hi yes we're trying naturally, we're in our forth year. Saving up and losing weight for IUI, but I think it's not going to happen now.

resipsa Thu 15-May-14 16:40:59

I was just thinking about this thread and up it popped. Too exhausted by the horror of a 3rd IVF failure to say much but hello to you all (and sorry that we're still bloody here).

Sunnydaisy Thu 15-May-14 18:21:09

Oh Resipsa sorry to hear that your third ivf wasn't successful but well done on putting yourself through it. Give yourself plenty of time to get over it, it really does put such an emotional and physical strain on the body.
Wish I had something positive to add but we're still here too! Every now and then I think that I'm ready to accept having just the one gorgeous little one and then when I hear more pregnancy news, I always end up in tears. Clearly not that ready!
Thinking of you.

BranchingOut Fri 16-May-14 23:57:14

Hope you are all well.
We are still trying. We haven't talked about IUI/IVF, although we are at the point where we have had all the tests and could just start up a cycle whenever. In some ways, I think that the longer we try a little bit of doubt creeps in that it is meant to be, so maybe we want it to happen naturally?

I did see my sister's baby - he was a little star! Lovely...and actually, it was fine, as he is so obviously their baby (of course!).

resipsa Sun 15-Jun-14 16:27:28

Just bumping this one...

resipsa Sun 15-Jun-14 16:31:48

And a quick update from me...well, my post from mid-May was premature in that I got a BFP from IVF no. 3 on 18 May. I started to bleed on 22 May when I had a TV scan at 5+6. Huge relief to see a heartbeat and offered congratulations by the staff. The joy lasted less than 24 hours as by 10am on 23 May, it was all over (and witnessed by DD (3)).

I think that I'm done. The last emotional rollercoaster was not one I could ride again. I'm 43. Time to get real :-(

Oh resipsa you poor poor thing, what a horrible experience. Completely understand you not wanting to start trying again. Be kind to yourself.
Update from me is that we've got a phone consultation with Gennet in Prague on Tues after discovering one blocked tube. On cycle 19 now and actually starting to feel more and more resigned that this will never happen. I need to try and change my mindset and find the positive but it's so hard.
Nice to see this thread resurrected though!

mawinter Germany Mon 16-Jun-14 11:10:59

Am so sorry to read this *resipa. My heart aches for you!
I can totally understand your thoughts of being done.

Today DH kind of put the brakes on things as well on our end. First was the fact that an appointment with a surgeon (for current health hiccup) has to be rescheduled, then came the news his coworker wants off around the time we could be doing IVF finally if the first issue was resolved quick enough. As neither of the two will happen, this year is out as well. I have heard some pretty alarming numbers of women who have been through losses in the fall/winter months (as well as myself personally) and two factors against us making these chances higher, I do not want to begin any later than August. Since this is off the plate, I can say another year has been wasted and next year I do not think I want to try anyway as I will be getting nearer to 40.
Maybe I am being unreasonable, who knows right now I am so angry.

keeponjuggling Mon 16-Jun-14 14:03:48

resipsa, so sorry for your loss, what a heartbreaking experience. Take time to take care of yourself. Thank you for coming on here and bringing back the thread at such a hard time.
I was a little late joining, but still not much further forward. In the midst of tests now, but no bfp on the horizon in the near future. Think I may be an unexplained case.
worrisome it is really hard changing your mindset, but I've heard lots of positive stories from those who managed to achieve it.
mawinter I'd be disappointed too, is there any way you can get your DH to get his coworker to change their time off - or is that not possible?

mawinter Germany Mon 16-Jun-14 15:26:43

keeponjuggling - Only if DH explains to the guy our issue. Which neither I or him want to do as we feel he will not understand since he a. already has the family he desires and b. he already rescheduled last year for us after he booked his holiday clear well knowing we had family coming at that time and DH already asked for the time off. The argument got so bad between them their boss had to step in and decide.

Now the question is, to throw in the towel and call it quits or not?

This is honestly one of the biggest mind fucks there is in life. :/

How long have you been trying for now?

keeponjuggling Mon 16-Jun-14 16:25:52

Oh mawinter that's sounds really awful, and I hope you don't mind me saying I don't much like the sound of your DH's colleague. He sounds selfish and insensitive. It's a really tough decision to make, waiting is one of the hardest things in TTC. Do you feel like you can wait it out until next year? Could your DH explain the situation to your boss, and have him tell the other guy he can't have that time off? without obviously giving the reason. Or would you rather his boss didn't know either?

We've been trying for 19 months, so not long compared to many. I always wanted a large family, but if we manage one more that'll be it for me. I can't do this again, its too hard.

mawinter Germany Mon 16-Jun-14 20:55:42

keeponjuggling Oh no I do not mind, I agree the guy is a selfish twat. Even DH agrees as well. heh
DH thought about going to his boss, but the guy is a bit of an abusive prick who verbally bashes people often, so he does not want to add any more fuel to his fire. DH actually has plans to seek a new job as a result of the prick. I am sure that will add even more no more trying time in as well. :/

Tonight DH asked if we could actually not give up and I told him that i need time to calm down.

I get where you are coming from, if even one of our 3 shots we got (we found an insurance which will cover 3 tries) works. I will most certainly be stopping there. There is just too much heartache in all of this.

What sorts of tests have you had done?

resipsa Mon 16-Jun-14 22:55:56

Thanks for the support, you guys but saying you're done is proving harder than accepting it.

Just for once today I thought that I'd escaped from nursery pick up without the usual baby bombardment but it wasn't to be; bumped into the woman who told me that she was expecting her second on the day after my second m/c. She's due at the weekend :-(

Non-MNy hugs to you resipsa. I can imagine coming to the (potential) end of your journey must be so difficult.

We had our call with the Prague clinic today - it was great, and it looks like we'll be starting short protocol at the end of July. Am excited and terrified in equal measure and also concerned about getting flights/accommodation sorted for dates that are move-able! Nice not to be in limbo anymore.

resipsa Tue 17-Jun-14 22:00:46

Worrisome - that's great news! I suspect that as the time draws nearer, you'll be glad to be able to focus on the logistics as opposed to the Big Question taking up every moment.

I feel strangely bereft at the moment without drugs, appointments, scans, etc to fill bored moments!!!

camillebbmvalez12345 Tue 24-Jun-14 19:03:49

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

keeponjuggling Wed 02-Jul-14 14:18:55

hi ladies,

resipsa how are you doing? sorry to hear you're having a really difficult time.

mawinter how are you? any progress with your DH's time off and IVF? I realised I didn't answer your question, so sorry. I've had day 21 tests (day 17 in my case), getting swab (?) next week and day 1-5 bloods in a couple of weeks time. DH had sample and it was all fine. My GP had done the referral last month but they won't see me until the have a certain list of test results apparently. So that's held things up quite a bit. Quietly hoping this cycle will be the one so I can call up and say its ok I don't need to come. Not likely though.

worrisome how are you? Not long until you start short protocol, did you say end of July? sorry I'm not sure what this involves, but hope you are feeling positive about it all.

How is everyone else?

p.s. im a little curious about what that deleted message said?

resipsa Wed 02-Jul-14 18:31:14

Hi keep. Nice bump for this . You'll wish you hadn't asked after me though...

At the start of last week, the local authority confirmed that we have to wait 6 months after last IVF to begin adoption process. Fair enough. By Tuesday, I'd got my head around 4 months or so free of the worry about a second child. There was a Plan.

Clearly, I wasn't meant to be happy or verging on it as on Tuesday evening DH was diagnosed with colon cancer. He's 38. DD is 3. His chances of making her 8th birthday are 50/50 sad.

So, instead of thinking about adoption, I'm contemplating widow and single parent status in my 40s. Adoption is out of the question with his diagnosis, he'll need chemo so we can't try naturally as it's dangerous and anyway he might be rendered infertile.

After 2 miscarriages in 6 months and this, I am at the end of my coping abilities. My future has been ripped apart.

The only option is to try again with DE IVF and get DH to freeze sperm before chemo. But can we bear the potential heartache again? And would I want to bring up 2 alone?

Poor, poor DH - he's going through hell and I am still going on about babies.

threepiecesuite Wed 02-Jul-14 21:57:05

Resipsa, I can't believe what I'm reading. I'm so so sorry you and your family are going through this. thanks

keeponjuggling Thu 03-Jul-14 12:21:38

Oh resipsa, I am so so sorry. I can't believe what an awful time you are having. I can't begin to imagine how you and you're DH are feeling right now, my heart goes out to you all. Is treatment likely to start soon? I hope the NHS are offering you both support to help you to come to terms with all you're going through? counselling maybe? I really am so sorry to hear your news.

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