Only 2 possibly 3 follicles at IVF scan;(

[Chattycat78]

Hi girls,

I hope you re all enjoying the sun! I'm looking for some hope that all is not lost! Attended day 9 IVF scan today. This is my first IVF and no idea how/if I would respond due to having low amh of 2.8.

Unfortunately looks like there are only 2 possibly 3 follicles doing much on one ovary and the other ovary is doing absolutely buggier all. Anyone got any hope to share as I realise that this is a pretty pants response. Am on 450 dose too so it's not like upping it is an option! Has anyone had similar and got much further or better yet got a bfp? X

[18yearsoftrying]

Hi chatty,

My AMH was only 0.57, I produced just one follie which produced just one egg after a dosage of 375ml.

This did turn into a BFP initially so going on my experience & that fact that my AMH is significantly lower than yours & my dosage was lower than yours, I think you'll do better than you expect.
xx

[Chattycat78]

Thanks so much for the reply:) I just needed a pick me up. I think i m a bit shocked as it seems so bad! i wasnt expecting much but still, i guess i was secretly hoping to do a bit better!

Have you had success in the end 18years or are you still trying now?

[Slainte]

I only had 3 eggs on my first round and, like you, was really worried. All three fertilised and were put back in and I got a BFP.

Good luck.

[Shellster52]

Chattycat, I am a poor responder with an AMH of 2.5 and I had similar results at my day 9 scan of 1st IVF. By egg collection, only 2 mature follicles and then Dr forgot one side and only collected 1! I was absolutely devastated. It fertilised but disintegrated before transfer.

I then did the estrogen priming protocol which research shows helps poor responders. That cycle I got 5 eggs and two were 'okay' quality to go back, but BFN. I read a website saying that Aspirin doubles the egg retrieval rate in IVF and took Aspirin before another attempt. I also read that high protein/low carb diet will improve quality of the few eggs I do get. I started IVF again and I was ecstatic when my day 2 scan revealed a whopping 15 follicles instead of the usual 5-6 - the Aspirin works! Unfortunately only 1 of 8 antrals on left side responded as I still had pain on my left ovary from previous egg collection but was too impatient to wait for it to settle. But still an amazing effort to get 5 eggs from my right ovary. Quality was better too and had a perfect day 2 embryo-the protein works too. Still a BFN but so close. I had a trainee do the transfer which I was really upset about and wonder if this is the reason. So this time I am at a new clinic with no trainees and have stuck to the high protein diet, back on the Aspirin and waiting for this cycle to finish to start IVF next cycle and see how many follicles Aspirin has produced this time.

Obviously you want your current cycle to put an end to your journey and I hope it works out for you, but I hope this gives you some hope that there are practical steps you can take towards improving your next IVF so you don't fall in a heap if this one fails.

[beginnings]

AMH of 2.3, three follies, three eggs, two blasts, one BFP :) don't give up yet!

[Shellster52]

Wow beginnings, I just cancelled my last cycle because I only had 3 follies growing and thought the odds were too low. I don't know if your cycle was funded under the NHS, but I am paying $$$$ for my cycle, so I guess that changes the game. Is this cycle funded Chatty? When is your next scan.

[Chattycat78]

Hi shell - yeah this is our one free go. Although of course we will have to pay next time. I can't believe they didn't collect one of your eggs the first cycle! That could have been the one that worked! I hope you complained?

Thanks for the tips too- I ll have to have a look at other protocols I suppose but I m worried that the clinic are going to give me the donor egg speech straight away because of my response. I'm definitely not ready to consider that yet! I've also been taking baby aspirin so clearly it's making no difference to me at least! My next scan is tomo am- not too hopeful of seeing anything more, but at least you ve given me some ideas for moving forwards. Thanks:)

[Shellster52]

Yeah, I still think about that one forgotten egg sometimes and think 'would this all be over now if they hadn't of missed it?'

Can I ask how long you took the baby Aspirin for in the lead up to your IVF. I took it for one whole cycle and had a scan day 2 of next cycle and still only 5-6 antrals. I thought, 'great, another thing that works for everyone else and not me'. Kept taking it that cycle and then the following cycle I had 15 antrals. So it took 8 weeks to work.

Anyway, obviously that's all to have a back up plan to have in your mind so you don't fall to pieces if this doesn't work. But don't want to make you lose faith just yet. I had a patient at work who did IVF and got 23 eggs and no pregnancy. For her next IVF she had much less eggs and the quality was much better and got her daughter. Reading beginnings story shows it is all about one good quality egg - that could be one of your three!

Let us know how you get on at your scan :)

[Shellster52]

Oh Chattycat. I had to come back to my computer when I thought of something that gave me much hope. Do you have any ultrasounds reports that state the size of your ovaries? I found a website that shows this as a better indicator of ovarian reserve and if the Aspirin will help.

Anyway, obviously I am in a different place to you as I am trying to improve after a failed cycle so this is my focus, where as I hope you never have to worry about this and you are growing your future baby as we speak. But I always felt it helped to have a plan B.

I hope your scan goes well beautiful and you never have to worry about all this.

[Chattycat78]

Hi shell - I must say, I don t know the size of my ovaries so maybe I should find out? It has never been mentioned that they are big/ small or anything else. Interesting the re the aspirin too- maybe I haven't taken it for long enough. I guess I ve been taking it for about 5 weeks or so before the IVF.

Thanks for the wishes re the scan. It's awful isn't it having to go through all this? All my friends now have babies or children- some of them only took one month to manage it- and here-s me messing around with IVF with what seems like little hope for success! Is trying naturally also an option for you still? In theory it is for me but I'm getting the message that it's much less likely to happen than someone 'normal' so that's nice then!

[beginnings]

It wasn't an NHS cycle. Don't get me started on that topic. I got the donor egg speech Chattycat78 but was told I could have another go on the NHS (in those days my PCT gave you two) where they would up me from 300 to 450 of Gonal-F (I also had FSH of 14.4 when they went looking which coupled with the AMH wasn't great odds). We went to a private clinic to see what they'd say and stayed.

I should say (sorry to drip feed) that the BFP I got that I mentioned above didn't work out BUT that wasn't really relevant to what you asked. At the time the clinic thought it was an amazing cycle. What we didn't know then was that I have thrombophilia and high cytotoxicity levels. Maybe the pregnancy wouldn't have worked anyway but it was a very very good blast and I was sub-35 so the odds were about 95% in my favour. I find it odd to think the thrombophilia and the cytotoxicity levels had no effect.

I went on to have a frozen cycle from which I had no result and then another fresh where I had 10 eggs but only 5 which were anything approaching any good. From that came DD1.

The private clinic did two key things - switched me to menopur (still on 300mg) and put me on a short protocol. While the clinical evidence doesn't suggest the short protocol helps, my consultant said that anecdotally, her view was that it did. And it did.

Don't give up. If the numbers at the end of your name indicate your age you've a while to go yet. PM me if you want any more details - hope your scan went ok today.

[Lauren83]

My AMH is 2, I had 4 follicles, 4 eggs, all mature, all fertilised, double transfer and non to freeze, unfortunately was BFN

[Chattycat78]

Hi all- thanks for further responses. Beginnings- thanks for your info. I'm sorry your first IVF dud not work out- dud you think it was because of your thrombophilia and toxicity or was it just unlucky? Glad you got there is the end though- it gives me hope! Re the protocols etc, unfortunately I am already on short protocol and 450 dose so I suspect there is nowhere else to go from here! Today's scan shoes 3 follies and possibly a 4th although the 4th one looks a bit small yo catch up so I guess that's as good as it gets! As for, yes I'm 35 so not exactly young but I was hoping to still have a chance to get pregnant! However nature has tricked my ovaries into thinking they are about ten years older!

Lauren I believe you were looking at donor eggs? How are you getting on with things?

[beginnings]

It's a really hard one to call. I have a minor sort of thrombophilia so the haemotologists tell me it has no impact at all on pregnancy outcomes but the obstetricians and fertility doctors seem to disagree. All I know is I've had two miscarriages and two successful pregnancies. With the miscarriages, I wasn't taking Clexane (blood thinner) and with the successful ones, I was! So go figure....there was definitely something to the cytoxicity though. I really do think the steroids helped. Having DD1 kicked my immune system back into play without a doubt which helped us have DD2 (BOGOF baby) 16 months later. Have you had your immunology tests done yet? Remember that one of the reasons that your body might think your ovaries are old May have been due to an autoimmune response - worth checking out.

I was always told that increasing stims to 450 doesn't make any difference, that 300 is the maximum that is shown to be effective. I'd say the short protocol has more of an effect. I definitely wouldn't cancel on those results. I always used to say, it just takes one!

[Chattycat78]

Interesting what you say about immunology tests- no one has suggested them! I'm guessing it's not something you can do on the Nhs? Should I look to get them done privately? And is there anything that can be done about it if it is an auto immune thing anyway?

[Chattycat78]

Forgot yo mention- I find get pregnant quite fast last year after only 4 months of trying but unfortunately had a blighted ovum so my body sort of knows what to do. I guess I put that didn't to bad luck but maybe there is something to this auto immune thing?

[Chattycat78]

Sorry my typing on this iPad is terrible! Hopefully you get the gist of what I'm saying!

[beginnings]

Definitely get immunology tests done and no, they're not offered as standard on the NHS. If you search, even just on here, you'll find lots of info. Don't despair about them not being offered on the NHS as my private consultant sent me off with a list to my GP to ask for them! Then I spent £500 having the ones the NHS doesn't offer.

For this cycle, might be worth talking to you clinic about just taking 25mg of a steroid like prednisolone daily. Won't do any harm.

My first bfp was natural after one month of trying and miscarried - sounds like my body is a bit like yours!

[foxinorangesocks]

Hi. Chatty I'm willing your three follies on. I have an antral follicle count of two (eesh) and my first ivf in November was a bust with one follie that my body kindly ovulated a few hours before ec. I think three is a good enough shot to get an egg that could be your bfp. I'm interested in the immunes beginning, I have this hunch that my ovarian situation has an immunology connection and will be having my first set of tests at the gps later this month. I am now awaiting donor treatment as my ovaries were so asleep it was deemed the far better option. I have made peace with this but want to make sure I do everything I can to make my body receptive to an embryo. Im 37. Friends of 37 seem to be having no issues. I've been ttc for three and a half years. Having slow ovaries is pretty rubbish but I wanted to post here as I do understand and wish you the very best.

[Grittzio]

Hi, I only had 2 follicles on 2nd attempt IVF, despite double dose, both fertilised, my consultant only went ahead with cycle as we knew we obtained fertilisation from 1st IVF attempt (0nly 5 follicles, 3 fertilised), against miserable odds I got a BFP, that was a few years ago, and 4 years later, aged 41, fell pregnant naturally. Don't give up hope, as my consultant kept telling me you only need one to work xx

[Chattycat78]

Hi guys, thanks fox- have you done IVF several times then to decide you want to look at the donor route? Can you still try naturally? Or what about natural IVF? I have a friend in a similar boat who got pregnant on her own the month before starting IVF so it is clearly possible, whatever the clinics say. If you re doing the immunes tests what can they do with the results?

Beginnings- thanks for the steroid recommendation- what is it meant to do though? Also if it looks like your issue is immune related does it help in any way? That is, I don't want to spend lots of cash finding out why if it makes no diff anyway.

Btw has anyone tried DHEA? I keep hearing good things but a little scared at the same time in case it makes things worse...

[beginnings]

The steroids suppress your immune system so if it's overactive (as mine was), it tells it to sit down, shut up, and not view the pregnancy as a threat and attack it. I was on it from when I started stimming (I think - it might have just before EC) and until 12 weeks - you have the wean off them slowly so I finally stopped at 14 weeks. When I was pregnant with DD2, I started them as soon as I knew I was pregnant (day 27 of my cycle) and continued in the same way. You can take up to 40mg a day without it being a problem for a pregnancy. I was on 25.

If you end up going with a private cycle if this one doesn't work, the immunology tests will definitely be money well spent as small (or sometimes big) changes could make all the difference to the outcome.

My consultant recommended I stay away from DHEA due to nasty side effects - the jury's very much out on it.

[MissingPresumedAlive]

I had an amh of 2.5, produced 2 eggs one fertilised, BFP she is 2 now and will not go to sleep! miracles really do happen so don't loose faith

[foxinorangesocks]

Chatty no, I just had the one disaster cycle. I'm unusual in moving to donor quickly I think but was given a 5% chance with my eggs and a 50% chance with donor. I've had a long, surgery ridden journey to get this far, I just want a baby now and feel able to move on. If money were no object I might feel differently, maybe. If I'd made three follies like you I think I'd feel like I'd have another go but on a whopping dose of menopur I made one egg so it's felt pretty black and white.

[Chattycat78]

Fox sorry to hear all your problems. It really does feel like some of us have a lot to go through trying to get our babies doesn't it? I'm glad you ve found a way forward that works for you though. I know what you mean about money though- we won t be sable to keep going forever Either and will have to agree how far we go before looking at other options.

Missing and grittzio glad to hear your stories and it seems like there are more stories like that than I would have realised. Perhaps I can beat the odds too!