OMG, a helicopter crashed into the Clutha Inn in Glasgow

(420 Posts)
GoodNeighbour Fri 29-Nov-13 22:50:19

Just heard this on BBC News 24.

I hope everybody is ok.
What on earth?!!

SoMuchToBits Fri 29-Nov-13 22:52:03

Really? Where was he helicopter from?

GoodNeighbour Fri 29-Nov-13 22:53:39

No idea.

Some people trapped in the pub apparently.

It will have been busy as well, Friday night, end of the month.
sad

FortyFacedFuckers Fri 29-Nov-13 22:54:30

Just heard this I hope everyone is ok. My colleagues are out in that area tonight.

DeepThought Fri 29-Nov-13 22:54:52
Pinkpartysprinkles Fri 29-Nov-13 22:56:48

Oh no, I live not far from the heliport and drive past that pub most days. What a terrible accident.

ghostonthecanvas Fri 29-Nov-13 22:57:58

There isn't much info out there

GoodNeighbour Fri 29-Nov-13 22:59:07

No, frustratingly little information at the moment.

I have friends who go to the Clutha Inn quite often.

Pancakeflipper Fri 29-Nov-13 23:00:20

It's on radio 5 at the moment, talking to a man who went to help.

GoodNeighbour Fri 29-Nov-13 23:01:08

They are talking about injuries, not dead.
Here's hoping.

SantanaLopez Fri 29-Nov-13 23:02:17

Clutha? What was a helicopter doing so low there?!

GoodNeighbour Fri 29-Nov-13 23:02:31

A crap, 'multiple casualties' sad

scaevola Fri 29-Nov-13 23:03:31

Bloody hell.

What's the usual closing time in Glasgow - would it have been busy?

FortyFacedFuckers Fri 29-Nov-13 23:05:35

It's usually a very busy place on as Friday night

Oh wow, how horrible. You don't think about helicopters crashing in built-up areas - at least, I hadn't.

JaquelineHyde Fri 29-Nov-13 23:07:11

They think it is a police helicopter with a mechanical failure.

SantanaLopez Fri 29-Nov-13 23:07:37

Closing time is midnight normally, but it would have been packed.

GoodNeighbour Fri 29-Nov-13 23:09:37

It crashed on the roof apparently.

I hope they get lots more people out.
40+ firefighters at the scene apparently.

FortyFacedFuckers Fri 29-Nov-13 23:10:22

Really hoping this isn't as bad as it looks in the pictures.

RhondaJean Fri 29-Nov-13 23:13:28

This has made my blood run cold, what a terrible thing, imagine just being out for a drink one Friday night and this happened. Watching bbc news.

Mignonette Fri 29-Nov-13 23:15:44

Trying to get hold of my niece. She's out in Glasgow and cannot get hold of her. Parents are frantic. sad

GoodNeighbour Fri 29-Nov-13 23:16:55

Oh no, mignonette, I hope they get in touch quickly x.

RhondaJean Fri 29-Nov-13 23:17:23

Oh bloody he'll the photo from above doesn't look good.

Mignonette, chances are she's either somewhere loud or with no reception having a whale of a time, doesn't even know what's going on out there, fingers crossed for you x

FortyFacedFuckers Fri 29-Nov-13 23:17:24

Let us know when you get her migon fingers crossed she is nowhere near.

SantanaLopez Fri 29-Nov-13 23:17:55

Oh Mignonette how scary sad so many Glasgow pubs and clubs are in basements, you rarely get phone signals.

GoodNeighbour Fri 29-Nov-13 23:18:06
Mignonette Fri 29-Nov-13 23:18:31

Am trying to be rational and logical. Glasgow is a large place. The mobile signal may be down due to over use.

It appears to be a police helicopter.

scaevola Fri 29-Nov-13 23:18:47

I hope she calls someone soon, Mignonette.

There probably won't be any reliable information for some time, as the emergency services will have far more important things to do than brief the press. The small mercy is that the building has not caught fire.

GinAndIt Fri 29-Nov-13 23:19:24

Just got hold of dp who is out drinking in Glasgow tonight, thank goodness. Absolutely awful, let's hope the casualties are few and minor.

GoodNeighbour Fri 29-Nov-13 23:19:31

Yes, thank goodness there's no fire by the looks of it.

Mignonette Fri 29-Nov-13 23:19:41

I'm not normally a panicker but she's late twenties, not the type to ignore and she'd know her parents would panic. She is doing a PHD.

scaevola Fri 29-Nov-13 23:21:31

Don't panic yet - mobile networks often fall over after a major incident.

GinAndIt Fri 29-Nov-13 23:21:42

Mignonette, fingers crossed you hear soon but there are many, many other places she could be and probably having a fab time.

scaevola Fri 29-Nov-13 23:22:19

And if she's in a pub/club elsewhere, she might not even know there's been an incident yet.

DeepThought Fri 29-Nov-13 23:23:09

fingers crossed Mignonette x

Mignonette Fri 29-Nov-13 23:23:57

Thank you all xx I am managing to stay calm. I realise it is highly unlikely that she is affected but sadly many will be and especially heart rending at this time of year.

MsUumellmahaye Fri 29-Nov-13 23:24:44

was this early evening? i walked down sauchiehall street tonight at 6pm and could hear sirens and a terrible burning smell sad

GoodNeighbour Fri 29-Nov-13 23:25:26

No, I think it happened in the last half hour or so.

NationMcKinley Fri 29-Nov-13 23:27:05

No, it's breaking news on sky and bbc news, MsUu

SantanaLopez Fri 29-Nov-13 23:27:09

We heard the sirens about 15/20 minutes ago.

scottishmummy Fri 29-Nov-13 23:28:08

Clutha bar,back st Enoch,police helicopter crash,multiple casualties
Services on site,critical incident
Thoughts with those affected and staff attending

Norem Fri 29-Nov-13 23:28:52

Oh I hope the pilots are ok too, we met some of them recently and they were lovely with the children sad

scotswoman Fri 29-Nov-13 23:28:52

Def a police helicopter from this picture.

Must be so shocking and scary for those there. Fingers crossed that there's no serious injuries.

MsUumellmahaye Fri 29-Nov-13 23:29:00

ye just looked it up, don't know what was on fire earlier. what a terrible thing to happen, hope everyones ok.

NationMcKinley Fri 29-Nov-13 23:29:23

Mignonette keeping everything crossed that your niece is safe and not caught up in all this. It is true though that local mobile networks are often taken offline during major incidents so as not to interfere with the emergency services communications

My DC are both out in town tonight. Don't think they're likely to be there, but desperately trying to get hold of them.

To the earlier poster, there was a fire in sauchiehall st at about 5.30 - round about antipasti.

YuleNeverKnow Fri 29-Nov-13 23:31:09

MsU - think that may have been a fire in Pitt St in a kebab shop about 5:30. Not connected.

LalyRawr Fri 29-Nov-13 23:31:10

Got hold of my foster nephew. Much relief. Hope everyone else hears from their loved ones.

Annunziata Fri 29-Nov-13 23:31:38

DC and DH are all out, can't get them either sad

GoodNeighbour Fri 29-Nov-13 23:32:12

There must be so many people worried about friends and family out in that area tonight.
Love and strength to every one of you - hope you have good news v soon.

It does look like a police chopper

Mignonette Fri 29-Nov-13 23:32:37

Thanks all. I hope and and pray that people survive. I will sit tight and keep perspective.

scottishmummy Fri 29-Nov-13 23:33:12

Unfortunately is police helicopter

Mignonette Fri 29-Nov-13 23:35:57

Very clear from photo.

RhondaJean Fri 29-Nov-13 23:36:21

I am sure they will be fine annunziata.

Police have tweeted confirmation it's their helicopter. I've lit a candle for everyone involved.

MsUumellmahaye Fri 29-Nov-13 23:39:52

thanks guys, had just left work. this is awful, watching news now.

NoMoreLoser Fri 29-Nov-13 23:40:04

My bf was there tonight, can't get hold of him at all. Hoping he's went elsewhere and battery is just dead.

OP here (I'd NC'd for another thread on which I then did not even get to post grin)

A+E at the Royal will be even more chaos than usual tonight then...

EweHaveGoatToBeKiddin Fri 29-Nov-13 23:41:58

Oh my god. I was supposed to have been going there tonight to meet people for my uni's Christmas night out, but we spoke today and rearranged for next Fri instead. I was actually annoyed earlier because I'd been looking forward to it. I can't believe this. Totally shocked. And crying.

Jesus Christ. This is terrifying/heartbreaking. Hope everyone's okay.

Annunziata Fri 29-Nov-13 23:42:15

I know rhonda, that's not their haunt but it's all a bit close to home.

Saying a prayer for you nomore

Shocking news. Hoping the casualties are as minimal as possible.

Ewe, wow - how very scary for you.

NoMore, I hope you get good news v soon.

MsU smile

DoubleLifeIsALifeOfSorts Fri 29-Nov-13 23:44:49

Praying for everyone involved

RhondaJean Fri 29-Nov-13 23:44:57

I'll say a prayer too no more.

It's too close to home annunziata - I was just about to let dd 14 come to the cathouse next Friday with her friend and her mum to see a band, I know this is a huge rarity but my head is racing with new what ifs.

All of you please post when your friends and loved ones turn up?

CoffeeBucks Fri 29-Nov-13 23:45:27

This is awful sad

I've heard from one DS. Still not heard from the other

Ilovemydogandmydoglovesme Fri 29-Nov-13 23:45:36

Am the other end of the country but <<hugs>> to everyone affected. Bloody awful.

It sounds like the police helicopter was doing a search following the m74... Very low.

There was no fire and apparently the engine was sputtering so presuming engine failure. I would imagine that the pilot tried to ditch in the Clyde. (Clutha is on the banks)

Very frightening. I am hoping for the best possible outcome

Agent, some good news. Are they not together then?

Annunziata thinking of you too

Mignonette Fri 29-Nov-13 23:47:54

I will when I hear because I like to know that other folks loved ones are accounted for.

Ewe I am glad you changed your night but rather alarmed that this pub is a Uni hang out because of my niece.

Am going to go to bed. Nothing I can do but hope tomorrow brings good news for all and that nobody has been lost.

Ah, attempting to ditch it in the Clyde and coming up short would explain it

No word about the pilots sad

No, both out separately with friends. One I've not heard from was at fratellis gig at O2 academy. I'm worried he's walked back into town and popped in for a drink.

MsUumellmahaye Fri 29-Nov-13 23:50:05

hope all you folks waiting for news get good news soon

30 hospitalised and one in critical condition is the latest hmm

RhondaJean Fri 29-Nov-13 23:52:00

Agent isn't the O2 curfew 11 so it would already have happened before he got out but he's possibly caught up in what I would imagine is the surrounding chaos, there's a massive cordon now, I don't know if or how public transport will be affected etc.

Transport/traffic will have ground to a halt, I'd imagine.

30 hospitalised? Have you got a link, mrsc?

Street diverted from glassford street. No traffic going across the bridge. Fire engines and emergency services literally lining up the length of the bridge

Second one's just walked in. He left his phone at home. I'm very relieved, but thinking about those who aren't so lucky. It's awful news.

No link Pacific... I have friends that are there right now, being treated for shock but keeping everyone updated via FB

Agent smile

Oh good grief, mrsc, I hope they are all alright {hug}

Annunziata Fri 29-Nov-13 23:57:21

Managed to get all mine, thank God.

MyTARDISAndI Fri 29-Nov-13 23:57:41

Glad both your DS's are ok Agent.

Thoughts with everyone else, hope you all get good news soon.

Casmama Fri 29-Nov-13 23:58:22

I was just in glasgow city centre- top of Buchanan st and left about 11.20- I knew nothing about it till I saw a text from my husband on the way home so please try not to worry if you haven't heard from people as likely they are fine and totally unaware

RhondaJean Fri 29-Nov-13 23:58:26

Very good news agent and annunziata. Im relieved for both of you.

Oh good, Annunziata smile

This is horrible. Have played gigs at the Clutha, was very much our local. Now live far away but friends still drink there. I am shaking.

scotswoman Fri 29-Nov-13 23:58:57

Apparently the band members who were playing tonight are ok, hoping that there's a pre christmas miracle and everyone else is alive too

They are fine thanks Pacific, just horrified and full of adrenaline.
You badly want to help in these situations but there's bugger all that they can do.

Oh, I know, there's a certain 'high' in being involved in a disaster and walking away from it. It'll take them some time to recover from this even if physically ok.

It is beginning to sound as if there won't be many/any deaths <hopeful>
Here's hoping.

Strength and courage to all those involved including all the emergency services.

Annunziata Sat 30-Nov-13 00:03:37

If anyone's DC are on Sauchiehall St or Bath St the news seems to just be getting through, and apparently there are some taxis but not many. DD says the town seems very very quiet.

Love to anyone still waiting.

RhondaJean Sat 30-Nov-13 00:04:07

There's some lovely stories starting to come through on the news about people helping each other to get out.

Mignonette Sat 30-Nov-13 00:04:28

Relief- I have just heard from her and she is trapped by the cordon but unharmed and safe.

I wish that everybody else could get this news. Realistically I know that won't happen. sad

So glad for you, Mignonette - hope you get a good sleep now.

I suppose lots of people in other parts of town with struggle to get home tonight if they are relying on transport.

RhondaJean Sat 30-Nov-13 00:06:44

That's fantastic.

Is anyone left still waiting to hear from people?

scottishmummy Sat 30-Nov-13 00:07:13

At such times it's public services staff who spring into action

Glad to see you Scottishmummy.

ThatWasPoo Sat 30-Nov-13 00:12:49

Just shocked at those twitter feeds where the journo's are begging for pics.....have a bit of compassion at such a scary time.

Thoughts going out to everyone involved. Hope everyone is ok.

It'll be a long night for a lot of public servants tonight.

Yes, some rather undignified scrambling for pics on Twitter hmm

We haven't heard back from LoserNoMore - hope your DP is OK.

Mignonette Sat 30-Nov-13 00:21:24

LoserNoMore

Hope all turns out well for you.

cannotfuckingbelievethis Sat 30-Nov-13 00:24:58

Hope everyone manages to get in contact with there loved ones x

HectorVector Sat 30-Nov-13 00:26:38

It was actually nomoreloser, just in case there is a losernomore who might be currently getting PMs from worried MNers.

Shenanagins Sat 30-Nov-13 00:27:54

The uncomfortable thing about the pics is that we will all want to see what happened and that means getting photos off of people who were there. When i heard about it on here i immediately turned on the tv to see what was going on.

i hope losernomore dp is ok.

Shenanagins Sat 30-Nov-13 00:30:59

Sorry should have said nomoreloser

RhondaJean Sat 30-Nov-13 00:32:24

There is a losernomore, good spot hector.

Mr salmond has tweeted we should prepare our selves for fatalities.

Twitter saying three fatalities, in the helicopter.

WildThong Sat 30-Nov-13 00:35:36

Oh, god bless them

madabootthehoose Sat 30-Nov-13 00:39:44

I am watching the name Graeme Campbell on the screen. My eldests name. Not his voice but when his name is associated with a disaster like this it makes you stop. I hope everyone is safe.

scotswoman Sat 30-Nov-13 00:40:10

Police Scotland confirm it's their helicopter with a civilian pilot and 2 police officers on board but no confirmation from them on status of them for now

DeepThought Sat 30-Nov-13 00:43:16

och this is dreadful news

the emergency services are a wonderful lot

HectorVector Sat 30-Nov-13 00:45:41

I just googled to find bbc news live on my phone and Google has Scottish flags flying in its OO which confused me somewhat. It's St. Andrew's day. sad
Hopefully the pub was quieter at the time of the incident than it would be tonight.

scotswoman Sat 30-Nov-13 00:46:41

All the reports of people running to the site and helping people from the building are just what I expect from Scots and remind me to be proud of fellow Glaswegians

scottishmummy Sat 30-Nov-13 00:47:40

Yes public services are amazing,they train and are able in such circumstances
My Thoughts with those affected tonight

scotswoman Sat 30-Nov-13 00:50:12

The pic of firefighters on the roof leaning down towards the hole created gave me a lump in my throat. They were endangering their own lives to help as I'm sure the whole roof is unstable

RhondaJean Sat 30-Nov-13 00:50:26

I really hope the guys in the helicopter made it, it does sound like they were very low, one theory seems to be they tried to land on the roof and the roof gave way, that might mean there's hope they weren't too severely injured?

scotswoman Sat 30-Nov-13 00:53:04

I thought that too Rhonda, really hoping

3 out of4 in the helicopter haven't made it.

There was 1 civilian pilot and 3 police officers in board.

RhondaJean Sat 30-Nov-13 00:56:25

Poor Jim murphy sounds absolutely shattered on tv now. He stopped and pulled his car over and joined the human chain passing people out of the pub. He said he passed along at least one woman who seemed unconscious and he thought perhaps more than that.

Obviously he's a politician not a doctor so I'm not alleging anything there but his voice in that last interview, all those others who were there too even if they weren't physically hurt are going to be traumatised.

HectorVector Sat 30-Nov-13 00:56:54

mrsc I understand you are very close to this incident and have friends on the scene, but

HectorVector Sat 30-Nov-13 00:58:28

Please don't make statements like that as fact. There may be MNers waiting to hear about their police officer or pilot husbands, children, partners etc...

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Hector several outlets are reporting fatalities sad

RhondaJean Sat 30-Nov-13 01:09:20

I've seen reports of three fatalities too but it said they were people in the pub.

We need to wait for the official police statement to know what's happening.

HectorVector Sat 30-Nov-13 01:12:43

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

You're right Hector. I've asked HQ to delete

RhondaJean Sat 30-Nov-13 01:18:28

There were 3 in the helicopter, 2 officers and a pilot.

HectorVector Sat 30-Nov-13 01:19:42

I've asked HQ to sort out my post too seeing as I repeated yours - I'm an idiot.

Going to bed now, I expect we will all know more in the morning, I just hope the numbers of injuries and/or fatalities is low.

giraffesCantGoGuising Sat 30-Nov-13 01:42:52

Very sad and scary.

Cheekybubbles Sat 30-Nov-13 02:37:37

Haven't read full thread. I can't cause I feel sick at what's happening.

But I want to confirm. As of just now they have not confirmed anything about the crew. Feel it is unhelpful to have a statement about the crew from someone when there could still be hope. These are real people and not a soap opera.

Kveta Sat 30-Nov-13 05:35:11

Bloody hell, just woken and seen this news sad poor Glasgow. But oh how typically and wonderfully Glaswegian to see that people were stopping to help and doing whatever they could to help others get out.

Hope the number of casualties is lower than the media thinks.

JennyPiccolo Sat 30-Nov-13 06:06:43

DP told me earlier and I didn't wake up because it was so weird I thought I was dreaming. Someone on twitter was saying that the pilot must've turned the engines off to avoid an explosion? So sad for the families involved.
Esperanza were the band playing, their Facebook page has turned into folk asking after the whereabouts of people. Might be worth looking there if anyone's still struggling to find loved ones.
Apparently glasgow mosque, across the bridge, have stayed open all night and have volunteers out.

Weegiemum Sat 30-Nov-13 06:12:31

My dc go right past there on the way to school. Absolutely horrific. I only found out on fb as a friend of a friend was there. Funny enough, dh closed the bedroom window at about 10 because the helicopter was really loud tonight! Thinking of all those affected .....

scaevola Sat 30-Nov-13 06:17:14

A police unit tweeted the exact call sign of the helo in the very small hours. I expect those connected to that call sign have been aware for some time already, and at a level of detail greater than that which has been publicly released.

There is no official news released to the public about casualties.

I watched the live press conference at 3am, they were very careful to talk only of casualties, not.confirming the nature of injuries, or worse, of those casualties.

Even if it is not known yet their condition, the families of those on board will have been informed already and have trained FLOs waiting with them.

There is only one police helicopter in Scotland, so those families will have been waiting for a knock on the door from the second they heard the breaking news, no dubiety for them, sadly, as to whether their lved ones are involved. The wait must be hell.

And there are people trapped inside - that alone, horrific as it is, gives a reason to hope.

Dillydollydaydream Sat 30-Nov-13 07:25:18

Such an awful thing to happen. Hoping for good news for everyone trying to contact friends and family.

Thinking of everyone involved. Suspect the best thing people like me, very far away, can do to help is book to GIVE BLOOD.

There are two police helis in Scotland, and other than the pilot, the crew is never a definite. Doesn't make it any better. Thinking of all involved.

lyndie Sat 30-Nov-13 07:44:07

How awful. My thoughts are with those involved including the emergency services, they must have had a terrible night.

DukeSilver Sat 30-Nov-13 07:50:21

Poor poor people. I really hope everyone is okay, the news reports are so conflicting.

I live in Glasgow very near where the police helicopters land, I always found it so comforting to hear them flying off. Hoping so much that the crew are just stuck.

Really, two? My sources google and wiki told me just the one.

DukeSilver Sat 30-Nov-13 07:57:34

Definitely more than one, I have seen the two parked up next to each other before.

scaevola Sat 30-Nov-13 07:58:04

The news reports are 'conflicting' because there is a heap of speculation by those unable to wait for official announcements.

There has been an incident, there have been casualties, further announcements will be made.

Ledkr Sat 30-Nov-13 08:04:21

Just woke up to this.
Thinking of all involved especially families waiting for news.

scaevola Sat 30-Nov-13 08:16:44

There has been further official information: 32 peope taken to various hospitals in Glasgow. A search and rescue operation continues at the pub; it is in a structurally unsafe condition, but emergency services will work in it for as long as they believe there may be people still trapped.

I was hoping not to wake up to news of casualties.

Thoughts and prayers to the families affected sad.

And yes, it sounds like the general public and emergency services were marvellous thanks.
I'd also like repeat as mentioned about that the mosque across the river was amazing in their support.

BBC link - I wish the reporter was pressing quite so hard for gory details. Prat!

puffinnuffin Sat 30-Nov-13 08:31:47

My niece is at Uni in Glasgow- is it a studenty type pub? I don't know Glasgow at all. I can't get hold of her but probably because she is likely to be in bed.

So sorry for all those people involved- just awful.

Definitely two. I'm recently ex force and I know this. Absolutely gutted today. Really sad.

Nicknacky Sat 30-Nov-13 08:34:53

Is one of them not the air ambulance? My friend works out of there as a paramedic. I work for police Scotland and I think there is only one in Glasgow.

It's a very popular live music venue, not huge, but has a v long tradition and is usually packed.
I wouldn't call it a specific student hangout, anybody who likes lives music is likely to have ended up there at one point or another.
Hope your niece is ok, puffin.

Thinking of NoMore this morning - I hope you can come back to us with good news.

Nicknacky Sat 30-Nov-13 08:38:34

In fact, I'm certain there is only one in Glasgow. We have requested use of it for incidents and on occasion it's out of action for whatever reason, there isn't a fleet to choose from. And when it has to return to base for refuelling, you have to wait for that one to return.

BakerStreetSaxRift Sat 30-Nov-13 08:55:30

Holy shit. I was fast asleep last night and have woke up this morning to loads of missed calls and texts from family trying to make sure I was okay sad

I can't believe it. I live just between town and the west end. DP and I watch that helicopter flying over our flat every night as the helipad is a few minutes' walk from us. So tragic.

It has crashed right beside where I get my bus to work too.

They say that at least 3 people have been confirmed dead, but number certain to rise. sad Just said on Radio 4.

Such a tragedy.

RhondaJean Sat 30-Nov-13 08:57:57

am almost certain there's is only one which is the strathclyde police one that was.

Bbc just saying its been confirmed 3 dead and they're expecting that to rise.

They have just had a guy in whose dad was there last night and hasn't been heard from since. He says he usually sits right where the copter fell.

So so desperately sorry for everyone involved and the families of those who lost their lives.

I really hope the actions of the mosque gets highlighted. Also those people who ran towards the accident not knowing if the copter was about to blow or not. Tremendous bravery.

There is a poster on the chat thread whose neighbour flies the heli for the police, and she said all his lights are off, so it looks like hes in work sad

sad at the news of confirmed deaths.
RIP x

RhondaJean Sat 30-Nov-13 09:03:46

Or he had an early night, or is away for the weekend...

BakerStreetSaxRift Sat 30-Nov-13 09:14:13

Pacific that reporter on that BBC news link is a total wank, isn't he. The fireman handled it well.

The other helicopter that sits beside it sometimes is a yellow one I think, so not sure if it's an actual police one, or a back up maybe.

EugenesAxe Sat 30-Nov-13 09:16:48

It's horrible news; I really hope all the MNers with relatives that might have been there, & that are as yet unaccounted for, get good news.

Sort of had a weird moment thinking about the relief I felt whenever anyone checked in like mignonette - guilt that I could feel a bit better in any way when such a terrible thing has happened. Three families at least will be grieving today & my heart goes out to them.

EugenesAxe Sat 30-Nov-13 09:20:45

puffinnuffin - your post reminds me of the time when the bomb went off in the Arndale... my DM was mildly worried but her overwhelming thought was that I wouldn't have got up in time to be affected. She was right - hope you hear from your DN soon, even so.

ssd Sat 30-Nov-13 09:22:45

awful awful news sad

BakerStreetSaxRift Sat 30-Nov-13 09:33:10

Just said it is now 6 confirmed deaths. And is "no longer a rescue effort", I don't know what that means.

mummylin Sat 30-Nov-13 09:34:52

Thinking of all of the families affected by this terrible tragedy.

Nicknacky Sat 30-Nov-13 09:36:35

Baker, I think that might be the air ambulance. The police won't have a back up. We can't even get spare cars or equipment!

Igloofornow Sat 30-Nov-13 09:37:54

Totally devastating, so many people gearing towards a month of festivities, would be the last thing you could expect to happen sad

Thoughts and prayers to all affected, puts things into perspective, doesn't it.

BakerStreetSaxRift Sat 30-Nov-13 09:41:43

Apparently they have set up a blood bank at Nelson Mandela's place and asked as many people as possible to go and give blood. The queues are so big already they have got all the people they'll need.

I love Glaswegians.

phantomnamechanger Sat 30-Nov-13 09:43:37

awful news. thinking of all those affected, or awaiting news of loved ones, and those wonderful professionals and members of the public working on scene. so sad.

stickysausages Sat 30-Nov-13 09:43:51

DH wondered if police choppers will be grounded now? Until the cause is found. The Pilot managed to switch off the fuel supply before impact, which will have avoided a catastrophe. Hope they get people out safely as the day goes on. Very sad sad We were at a concert next to the helipad last Friday & the chopper is out & about constantly.

Sleepless night until I found that my cousin was safe. He is usually in there listening to bands but has a bad cold so had an early night. He didn't realise anyone would be worrying about him.
A recovery operation? Does that mean they don't think anyone else will be found alive.

No longer a rescue effort - oh no.

phantomnamechanger Sat 30-Nov-13 09:46:35

BAkERSTREETSAX, in all of this, it is the thought of those people queing to give blood, responding however they can, that had made me teary.

RhondaJean Sat 30-Nov-13 09:51:36

I think so drama. Some places now reporting 6 confirmed dead bbc still saying 3. The dogs are in helping search.

If the pilot did manage to shut off the fuel he is a hero as he has doubtless saved many more lives, an explosion in that crowded little pub would have been - I'm struggling for words as I want to say catastrophic but what has happened already is.

Scotblood aren't calling for blood donors. They have just posted on FB

In light of the major incident in Glasgow last night, please be assured that blood stocks are adequate at this time. Should we need donors to come forward to replenish stocks, we will let you know. Thank you.

Just in case anyone was thinking of going to donate.

Such a tragic accident. My thoughts are with everyone involved.

ElaClaw Sat 30-Nov-13 09:59:21

The poster on the other thread says her pilot neighbour is fine.

phantomnamechanger Sat 30-Nov-13 10:00:29

shona has just posted on the chat thread that the pilot was NOT her neighbour. someones family, neighbour, friend though. its awful. the timing for St Andrews day is poignant too.

scaevola Sat 30-Nov-13 10:02:15

Wherever you are, giving blood is always a good thing to do (they can bike it to where it's needed). So even if you're miles from the incident, donating now - or at any time so stocks are always at good levels - will always help. But no need to rush to do it specifically today.

I'm just going to go and donate at my usual time next month.

I think people are so desperate to help, but not everything they think of will necessarily be helpful.

I have the urgent but absurd need to get these firefighters some hot tea blush. I'll stay put.

seb1 Sat 30-Nov-13 10:06:23

Further to what Glaikit Scotblood's website says blood levels currently ok Scotblood

I love that there was a queue of people wanting to give blood. So often, because of football, Glaswegians get a bad press. This is much more accurate.

Well, it's both accurate IME grin

Sorry I didn't mean don't go and donate. Just there are posts going around about emergency donation centres opening in George square. This doesn't appear to be the case.

giraffesCantGoGuising Sat 30-Nov-13 10:10:06

Yes hope the kindness of those on the mosque nearby is highlighted too.

giraffesCantGoGuising Sat 30-Nov-13 10:10:49

There is always a center in Nelson Mandela place.

FB posts I mean, sorry. I'm making a fist of what I was trying to say.

Ubik1 Sat 30-Nov-13 10:12:41

Woke up to this news. sad

Thinking if all the families affected this morning.

Glasgow Central Mosque, located close to the pub on the opposite side of the Clyde, tweeted: "Have told emergency crew that we r on standby & can make available mosque & volunteers to assist in any way to aid injured & emergency crew.
Huffington Post

sir Stephen house has just confirmed only one fatality with more to be expected.

lisad123everybodydancenow Sat 30-Nov-13 10:17:34

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BakerStreetSaxRift Sat 30-Nov-13 10:19:15

Press conference has now said there is just 1 confirmed fatality.

lisad123everybodydancenow Sat 30-Nov-13 10:25:43

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Yes, words are being chosen extremely carefully

RhondaJean Sat 30-Nov-13 10:27:28

They have also said they are still regarding it as an ongoing rescue so there may still be hope.

Nicknacky Sat 30-Nov-13 10:29:13

Think it's more that the world media that is on them that is making them choose their words carefully, and the fact it is a fluid situation rather than being a police helicopter.

I think you are thinking wrongly lisa. It's still early in the whole thing and tbf the questions the reporters asked were pointless. I can guarantee these guys aren't running the incident, but merely taking the Public face of it allowing those who are running it to do their jobs. The fact it's a police helicopter means that every police officer in Glasgow has colleagues directly involved. The chances of those officers and the pilot are the fatalities are high. Sir Stephen looked genuinely choked during the press conference.

All our emergency services are working hard on this. My thought are with each and everyone of them.

giraffesCantGoGuising Sat 30-Nov-13 10:35:21

Was bbc not saying 3 people earlier now it is saying 1? Confused.

They did giraffes. But I think the 3 was from "sources". But the fact they have said to expect more means they know there are but next of kin need to be informed first.

I agree, Glaikit, they are being mindful of families who are hoping for the best and fearing the worst at this time.

I thought the blond man whose dad may have been in the pub also looked quite bewildered and lost.

This is were having access to news so fast via social media is not necessarily a good thing. They are now repeating the same things over and over again...

I may just go and deal with the leaves in my garden for a bit...

lisad123everybodydancenow Sat 30-Nov-13 10:38:37

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Yes I still have the BBC page open reporting 3

Nicknacky Sat 30-Nov-13 10:42:33

Also consider that access may not have been gained to confirm the persons thought to be dead actually are. Whilst it may be obvious looking at them they do need to have life pronounced extinct, that may not have happened yet. In all likelihood the figure may be closer to six.

giraffesCantGoGuising Sat 30-Nov-13 10:46:38

Sky news just tend to report any whisper of anything with out checking though

ssd Sat 30-Nov-13 10:46:58

agree some of the reporting not very good

The reporting seems to be focussed on getting info out there without actually checking it's true.

puffinnuffin Sat 30-Nov-13 10:48:49

Just heard from my sister. My niece went to stay with friends and so wasn't there fortunately.

I feel so sad for anyone caught in it- truely dreadful.

Nedine Sat 30-Nov-13 11:27:00

Hi there - I've received a couple of PMs form Mumsnet members wishing everyone well over on P&B, thanks for that, very much appreciated.

May I personally extend that wish to all Mumsnet members and their friends and loved ones.

It would seem that the partner of one of our members has learned that a member of her extended family has died - it would appear that she was a female police officer on board the helicopter.

How sad. sad Thoughts and prayers with everyone in Glasgow today.

trixymalixy Sat 30-Nov-13 12:36:43

sad Nedine. I had heard that a female police officer had died. My thoughts are with all those affected.

Kormachameleon Sat 30-Nov-13 12:47:50

Sorry what is p&b ?

This is all so sad

Sarahplane Sat 30-Nov-13 12:49:11

Rip my thoughts are with everyone affected.

trixymalixy Sat 30-Nov-13 12:56:59

I think P&B is pie and bovril, a Scottish football forum.

ProfondoRosso Sat 30-Nov-13 13:38:41

This is so sad. My heart goes out to everyone affected. And especially right now to the family of the female police officer.

The Clutha was where my dad used to drink. One of my friends lives close by on Parnie St and drinks there occasionally, but she wasn't there last night, thank God.

Oh, Nedine, how sad sad. So sorry.

FannyFifer Sat 30-Nov-13 13:45:33

This is just so awful. hmm

Fuckingfacebook Sat 30-Nov-13 14:02:47

I've just seen Alex salmons on the news and he looked terribly, terribly shocked.

Nedine sad

MrsWedgeAntilles Sat 30-Nov-13 14:09:53

I gave blood this morning in Glasgow and it was packed to the rafters from early on. I asked if they needed me to send in my DH or any other relations and they said the stocks were ok.
One of the other donors made the point that blood only lasts for 30 days and you can only donate every 12 weeks so if everyone rushes in now there might not be enough donors about the place to see them through Christmas and Hogmanay. This wasn't from any of the staff, it was just chat among the donors but if its true its a good point. If you were thinking about giving blood as a result of this it might be an idea to give the blood bank a call first to find out the best time to go.

Nedine what a shame sad

Horrific accident. sad

Thoughts with all those affected.

I have deliberately not watched the news yet as hate the way they try and get to th nitty gritty. And report unsubstantiated rumours.

RhondaJean Sat 30-Nov-13 14:17:55

I've just found out a friend of mines and someone I hold in really high regard was in the Clutha with his brother when this happened. Both physically unhurt and it sounds like they've helped save others but tharcusfar far too close, I'm a bit wobbly now.

Fuckingfacebook Sat 30-Nov-13 14:19:52

Oh Rhonda. sad

Rhonda -put a jumper on and get yourself a cup of tea. Even second hand this is a shocking and frightening time. I'm glad your friend and his brother were safe. I'm so sorry that everybody wasn't.

IamInvisible Sat 30-Nov-13 14:31:38

So sad Nedine. sad

Hugs Rhondaxxxxxx

My thoughts are with everyone connected, or affected, by this tragic accident. It is just so, so awful.

Fuckingfacebook Sat 30-Nov-13 14:31:56

Bbc news says police statement at 3

RhondaJean Sat 30-Nov-13 14:35:25

Am so glad they are both ok, I am just gutted they or anyone else had to go through that. I know him murphy as well through work and the look on his face when he was on tv last night, I hope everyone who was there either in the pub, helping as a passerby or as a public servant has someone taking care of them today.

Only just reading about this now. How scary for everyone involved xx

Members of the emergency service are likely to be offered debriefs and/or counselling if they are affected after the event.
Passers-by or survivors from inside the pub may struggle for some time.

Rhonda, hope you feel better soon.

Police update coming at 3.45 from the scene.

So incredibly sad and hard.

IamInvisible Sat 30-Nov-13 16:01:36

It is 8 dead now. sad

All 3 of the helicopter crew and 5 in the pub.

May they all rest in peace. Thoughts with the families.

spiderbabymum Sat 30-Nov-13 16:01:46

EIGHT fatalities

spiderbabymum Sat 30-Nov-13 16:02:10

My thoughts are with their families .

Fuckingfacebook Sat 30-Nov-13 16:02:37

So sad. Thoughts with all the families and friends of those who have died or been injured.

RhondaJean Sat 30-Nov-13 16:04:50

This is awful. My friends brothers been on the news talking about it. So many haunted faces. My thoughts are with the 8 bereaved families and with everyone else involved last night.

trixymalixy Sat 30-Nov-13 16:06:51

Eight!! sadsad

MrsDeVere Sat 30-Nov-13 16:13:33

Just watching the news now.
How very sad.
I am so sorry for everyone involved.

JennyPiccolo Sat 30-Nov-13 16:14:15

So sad. Many of the speakers at the press conference were struggling to keep it together .

Ubik1 Sat 30-Nov-13 16:20:31

They've probably been up all night under tremendous stress

BasketzatDawn Sat 30-Nov-13 16:38:26

Yes, I was thinking that too, Ubik - Stephen House esp looked like he hadn't slept. And it's very cold too. Jim Murphy always looks like he needs extra chips with his pie and beans, but he looked dreadful on his interview- but it had only just happened at that point presumably. Great shock altogether.

We've just heard from ds2 who is fine, thank goodness. I was telling myself he was fine (maternal instinct and all, but as time went on I was worrying esp as he has used this bar - but now lives in another area so less likely). Such a relief, but awful for those others for whom the news is less good.

I am so upset at this. Eight people died sad - my sincere condolences to all the families involved. Love and light to you all.

JennyPiccolo Sat 30-Nov-13 16:41:48

I wasn't criticising, ubik. I was struggling just watching them.

Ubik1 Sat 30-Nov-13 16:43:44

Oh no I didn't think you were criticising...

bassetfeet Sat 30-Nov-13 17:00:53

ex Glasgow lass here . So so sad to read this . My sincere condolences to all the people who have been injured and bereaved .
My admiration to all the emergency services and the brave folk who helped . And my thoughts to you lovely Glasgow people who must feel very low . x

ProfondoRosso Sat 30-Nov-13 17:09:47

My heart goes out to all the bereaved. This is a small city. You don't have to go far to find someone who knows someone you know.

It makes me feel sad that Glasgow has such a reputation for being rough and violent, when it's a truly kind city.

BasketzatDawn Sat 30-Nov-13 17:17:29

It must have been a truly busy night for the fire service especially, because the big kebab shop fire (pitt Street) was only a few hours earlier. They must be exhausted. <sister of retired Glasgow fire fighter>. I know what you mean, Profundo - tis a lovely and kind city.

Glasgow born, bred and educated but living elsewhere for many years now - sharing the sadness of my home city today. Heartbreaking news but heartwarming stories of people selflessly helping.

BumPotato Sat 30-Nov-13 17:52:02

It's awful.

ssd Sat 30-Nov-13 17:56:11

I've lived in Glasgow all my life and the people are the best you'd meet, all the stories on the news of people helping each other will be the tip of the iceberg.

ssd Sat 30-Nov-13 17:59:20

rhonda, I seen your friends brother on the news, he was very articulate considering the shock he must be in. And agree Jim Murphy looked utterly shocked too. Ds2 was playing football at toryglen and seen that helicopter overhead about 9pm, is very shocked at the news about what happened to it, God love them who died sad.

scottishmummy Sat 30-Nov-13 18:18:50

St Andrew day today,but feel v subdued.thoughts with those affected
The staff and public are outstanding,I hope that's given adequate recognition

Yes, scottishmummy, this is the side of ordinary Glaswegians that doesn't get publicised - the kindness of people. Let's hear more about that than football sectarianism.

phantomnamechanger Sat 30-Nov-13 18:31:39

Oh no, eight fatalities. How awful.

Edinburgh born, but have been living in Glasgow for at least 10 years and raising a family here. Trying to keep up to date with this, but haven't been able to watch the news as my 3 year old would ask too many unanswerable questions sad

Thought are with with anyone who has had the misfortune to be involved in this, and everyone who has been affected.

Neighbour is a consultant in emergency medicine (at the Western, I think), and rushed off when he heard the news. It all hits close to home, doesn't it?

Appin Sat 30-Nov-13 19:02:19

Absolutely devastated by this. It really brings home how at risk those who work in the emergency services are. Every day my OH happily trots off to work and I never think about him again until he gets home, I said when he started this job that I would not be one of those wives who worried and fussed all the time. But I keep thinking of the loved ones of those police helicopter people, as soon as the helicopter was mentioned they must have known it was their loved ones. Terrible stuff.

Going for a drink, going to work, and never coming home again. Unbelievable.

I saw a post earlier on twitter, it said Glasgow is the 3rd largest city in Britain, yet still everyone knows where the Clutha is, and knows someone who drinks there. Dear green place indeed.

Appin Sat 30-Nov-13 19:04:51

Southbysouthwest, this is the first major news item we've discussed with our four year old, because it's been in our city and such big news to us. We've just explained a helicopter crashed, that it won't work anymore and that lots of people were hurt. Policemen dying might be a step too far, wouldn't want to introduce that possibility to his wee mind.

Funny thing though, he was restless during the night and when I went in he was talking about a helicopter in his sleep. Strange coincidence.

NoMoreLoser Sat 30-Nov-13 19:09:11

Thought I'd come back to update. After a frantic few hours after posting last night my partners friend called me to tell me he was at the hospital. He has some minor injuries but should hopefully be discharged tomorrow. Just such a shock. He's in shock, very emotional. Can't quite believe it all myself. I'm just catching up on the news just now. Dp is so so lucky. My thought are with everyone involved. Such a sad day sad

Ledkr Sat 30-Nov-13 19:12:53

Fantastic news, very happy for you xx

IrnBruTheNoo Sat 30-Nov-13 19:22:45

Can't believe no one has even started a thread about this in _Chat....it's utterly devastating. Eight lives lost so far.

scottishmummy Sat 30-Nov-13 19:25:46

Two active threads,I don't know another is required
I don't draw any inference from fact it's no a thread in chat

IrnBruTheNoo Sat 30-Nov-13 19:26:55

Two active threads in the wrong place. There tends to be more traffic in _Chat.

So sad for all affected by this sad It's just so random and unpredictable

MsUumellmahaye Sat 30-Nov-13 19:28:11

very happy to hear that NoMoreloser.

scottishmummy Sat 30-Nov-13 19:28:34

I simply can't see what you're contention would be regards location of thread

IrnBruTheNoo Sat 30-Nov-13 19:30:06

If there's more traffic in _Chat then more people will be aware of the tragedy. It seems it's not really been noticed there's been a tragedy in Scotland as no one else has started a thread there yet...

scottishmummy Sat 30-Nov-13 19:32:22

Two threads,extensive media and online coverage
It's v apparent there's been a national tragedy

Oh thank goodness, NoMoreLoser - what a lucky, lucky man you have there.
Hug him extra tight, it may take a little time for it to really sink in, how close a call this was. It may hit him like a brick wall a bit later.
thanks

There is another thread in Chat

Me2Me2 Sat 30-Nov-13 19:34:55

A tragedy
nomore I'm glad your dp is safe. I read your posts this morning and was worried.

So very sorry for the 8 and their family and friends. And for Glasgow. You sound like a wonderful supportive bunch

scottishmummy Sat 30-Nov-13 19:39:32

Appin in public service one compartmentalises,and easily reverts to professional mode
Becomes instinctive,intuitive,there a protective mechanism as it allows you to get on with it
Then you finish,go home,kiss the weans.and you're in parent,partner mode

IrnBruTheNoo Sat 30-Nov-13 19:40:12

Pacific cheers for clearing that up - my mistake as I hadn't noticed one, _chat moves so fast blush

DukeSilver Sat 30-Nov-13 19:43:59

I really don't think this is one of the occasions where Scottish news is overlooked. It has been the main story on most news websites all day and many of the people on this thread aren't Scottish.

nomore i'm so pleased you had good news.

Glasgow does feel very sad today. It's hard to believe it's so big because everyone does know the bar, and someone who drinks there. Everyone was so used to seeing the police helicopter flying around too. We always called it the Ghettobird and loved spotting it. I love this city, it gets such a bad press but really the people are lovely and this has really shaken everyone up.

RhondaJean Sat 30-Nov-13 19:50:21

It's been all over the national news, messages from the pm and the queen, it's being taken very seriously by the whole country, as it should be.

Dh is going to the 02 academy tomorrow to see the Mondays, logically I know he will be fine and this is a rarity, but heavens it's made me nervous.

It's the randomness of it all, that gets to me: you sit there, having a drink, listening to music and then the roof caves in. Horrible.

Somebody from the police explained a bit about how flying helicopters was intrinsically dangerous, particularly hovering. There are so many people out there who risk their lives everyday for the greater good.
thanks

And yes, being professionally involved with emergencies and bigger incidents like this one is different from being a 'normal' person, but not alway protective. There are things that have stayed with me for 20 years. DH (hospital dr) will not attend any kind of fireworks display/bonfire after something he witness well over 10 years ago.

Bottom line is, I hope everybody involved will get the support they need.

Oh, and my parents phone me from abroad this morning to make sure I was ok, so it is also v prominent international news today.

Doobydoo Sat 30-Nov-13 20:06:07

Agree re randomness and my thoughts are with all those involved.
I just have the urge to say how utterly marvellous the fire service,ambulance service,police and NHS staff are....I am filled with emotion seeing the footage.
Also people,in general for doing what they could.Restores ones faith.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

gussiegrips Sat 30-Nov-13 20:13:36

@glasgowtaxis have tweeted that they'll provide free taxis for folk visiting family injured in the crash.

Lovely. Folk are just lovely.

Fuckingfacebook Sat 30-Nov-13 20:17:40

Today I am massively proud of my home city. Very very proud.

Pinupgirl Sat 30-Nov-13 20:23:39

I have lived in Glasgow nearly all my life-I have drunk in the Clutha. I still cannot take this in-thought someone was making a sick joke when I saw it on fb. Its horrible and my thoughts are with all the families of those hurt/deceased.

expatinscotland Sat 30-Nov-13 20:24:34

I feel for all those getting bad news about their loved ones.

squoosh Sat 30-Nov-13 20:25:40

The city really is subdued today, thought Jim Murphy, Alex Salmond and Gordon Matheson all spoke well.

It's just beyond anyone's imagination that something like this could happen when going for a Friday night drink.

lotsofcheese Sat 30-Nov-13 20:31:52

It's just so shocking. I was born & brought up in Glasgow - I lived there for over 30 years.

It doesn't surprise me that locals ran to the scene to help - that's Glasgow for you.

But more than anything I really feel for the families of those who have sadly lost their lives. Such a tragedy.

Weegiemum Sat 30-Nov-13 20:40:31

I've lived in Glasgow twice in my life, and it's been our family home for nearly 9 years now. So proud of the folk in my adopted city today, so sad for those affected by this. A friend of hours was in the bar earlier in the evening but had left before the crash - mightily relieved to hear he's ok.

trixymalixy Sat 30-Nov-13 20:41:04

It sounds like the pilot managed to close off the fuel tanks before they crashed which will have saved a lot of lives. I shudder to think how many would have died if there had been a fire or explosion too.

Shenanagins Sat 30-Nov-13 20:45:12

nomoreloser so glad to hear that your dp is ok, i have been thinking of you all day.

Appin Sat 30-Nov-13 20:48:05

Scottishmummy, I know. DH is in the police. I've seen him walk in and be all cheery with the children, eat his dinner, laugh his way through a programme on the telly, and then casually mention on the way to bed something horrific he's seen that day. He definitely compartmentalises. I think most people in difficult jobs do.

pincasgft721 Sat 30-Nov-13 20:48:58

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

Reported, pinca - if you are not a computer, you do realise what this thread is about, yes?

Get lost.

Fuckingfacebook Sat 30-Nov-13 20:52:03

I have reported too

The pilot has come up as a friend of a friend. sad I was worried about friends who live there and often go to gigs in the Clutha. I was so relieved when I found they were safe. I'm not in Glasgow but this tragedy has affected the whole of Scotland if not the uk.
Just awful.

Didiandb Sat 30-Nov-13 21:03:03

I think it is harder to compartmentalise if you are dealing with colleagues though.

DH knows the crew. He has been part of the rescue operation. He never brings emotions home with him but this morning he was like a broken man. I do not know how to help him because how can you rationalise something so random and tragic.

My thoughts go out to everyone involved.

MrsBramleyApple Sat 30-Nov-13 21:29:52

Just seen on Twitter that one of the Glasgow taxi firms is offering free rides to people who have relatives in hospital due to the disaster!

Appin Sat 30-Nov-13 21:32:09

So sorry to hear that didiandb, you're right about the compartmentalising. I'm so sorry your OH has been so affected. Mine didn't know the crew. He's on annual leave at the moment. He rushed into the shower and got dressed to go in, but there was no need for his specialism.

A sad time for police Scotland.

bangersmashandbeans Sat 30-Nov-13 21:33:50

Didiandb - my heart goes out to your DH.

Fuckingfacebook Sat 30-Nov-13 21:36:41

Didiandb - my thoughts are with your husband

Oh, didi, that must be so hard for your DH - compartmentalisation only goes so far sad

It would appear that the pilot was quick-thinking, even when his own life was in danger

ArtisanLentilWeaver Sat 30-Nov-13 21:40:49

This woman's words brought an insight to the emergency services and those who helped.
I wept with sadness and also pride for the bravery and sense of community shown by the people of Glasgow.

Dwerf Sat 30-Nov-13 21:42:14

Nomoreloser so glad to hear your dp is alive , hope he recovers soon. I thought of you when I saw the latest news on the bbc.

It's a horrible tragedy, and the randomness of it makes it worse, my thoughts go out to those lost, those grieving and those affected.

Didiandb Sat 30-Nov-13 21:43:55

Thank you all for your kind thoughts.

I've never seen DH upset like this so I am just trying hard to listen and be there for him.

We are both just grateful for what we have I guess. Life can be so cruel. sad

That's a wonderfully written piece Artisan

Fuckingfacebook Sat 30-Nov-13 21:52:26

Tristan thank you for sharing that it's beautiful.

Nomoreloser I'm thinking of you.

giraffesCantGoGuising Sat 30-Nov-13 22:13:06

I think it is well documented - it is the top story on the bbc news site.

JennyPiccolo Sat 30-Nov-13 22:14:50

Been thinking about you NoMoreLoser. You must be so relieved.

I used to put on bands in glasgow and my heart sank when I saw Esperanza were playing-they always bring in a good crowd.

stickysausages Sat 30-Nov-13 22:20:30

It's all so sad sad The mp on the news was so obviously in shock this morning sad just praying they find survivors in the rubble sad

stickysausage, I don't think that they are still looking for survivors sad which suggests to me that everybody has been accounted for.

OldLadyKnowsNothing Sat 30-Nov-13 23:24:08

They're still talking about a "rescue" operation, and there's at least one man unaccounted for; the dad of the young man who maintained an all-night vigil last night, and is still there now. He knows his dad was there, he knows the most damage was over where his dad always sat...

squoosh Sat 30-Nov-13 23:29:07

Yes, I think the death toll will rise further.

squoosh Sat 30-Nov-13 23:31:31

Poor John McGarrigle Jr waiting for news of his Dad. One of the news channels asked him how he had 'come to terms with his father's death'!!!!!

Firstly, his death hasn't been confirmed, secondly, it was only last night for God's sake. 24 hour news reporting really brings out the vulture in journalists.

scottishmummy Sat 30-Nov-13 23:35:03

Harrowing to see mr mcgarrigle talkin waiting to hear news of his dad,the pain is evident

Shenanagins Sat 30-Nov-13 23:49:19

The poor man, i was hoping that he had heard by now and it was good news.

TheArticFunky Sat 30-Nov-13 23:56:10

They have to still treat it as a rescue operation I was confused when I read earlier that it was no longer a rescue operation. People have been pulled alive from under rubble days after an incident.

RhondaJean Sun 01-Dec-13 00:02:11

Police have started naming the dead. This is the point where it suddenly becomes coldly horribly real with names and faces.

My thoughts are with the Arthur family from paisley tonight.

You know it can take the most tragic things to bring people together.

Thanks Ned for you update on p&B. Yes we had a spat over trolling, but at the end we were all getting on fine.

So so sorry for Lex and his family. And all the other families on here and P&B whose families have been affected by this.

I remember being outside South Quay station the night of the IRA bomb, and the only reason I didn't stay to take the train, despite the delays, was that it was my leaving party at my previous employer, I was already late, and I was worried about letting folk down. I got in a taxi, got to end of the road and the world ripped apart.

TeamJavert Sun 01-Dec-13 09:27:46

It's so hard to take in. It's equally awful no matter where tragedies take place,but when it's your hometown it's even more of a shock.

I'm so sorry for those poor people who lost their lives,the injured and for everyone else affected by this. Your poor DH too,What a terrible job the rescue workers and police have ahead of them.

I'm so sorry for your poor DH,DidandB. And you,it must be so painful to see him like that.

I have friends who go there, and were supposed to be there,but thankfully one felt ill,so they didn't go.

Wonderful article Artisan,Thankyou for sharing that. I'm very proud of our wonderful city and its people.

Belindabelle Sun 01-Dec-13 11:39:42

Sorry if this question is insensitive, but does anyone know how many people walked away? I have heard that 30 odd were taken to various hospitals, 8 are confirmed dead, but there was around 120 people in the pub.

BumPotato Sun 01-Dec-13 12:54:43

Around 80? Little bit of arithmetic using your numbers.

Belindabelle Sun 01-Dec-13 12:59:47

But that's just it they haven't said if around 80 people walked away. I suppose what I am asking is how many people are unaccounted for and could still be trapped in the building.

TeamJavert Sun 01-Dec-13 13:01:57

There's no need to be so rude. They're still searching for bodies,and have just pulled another out of the wreckage so it's a perfectly reasonable question.

scottishmummy Sun 01-Dec-13 13:06:18

Screw the nut,this isn't time for argy bargy

BumPotato Sun 01-Dec-13 13:33:03

belinda bbc or sky have this morning named two people missing presumed dead. You're right, it is possible there are more. Let's hope not.

I think a large number of unhurt people and walking wounded were taken care of in the Holiday Inn across the road - I don't think that exact numbers were mentioned.

32 in hospital originally, 18 discharge, 14 still hospitalised, some with serious injuries.

I am not sure how many bodies are still unaccounted for, but very much get the impression that the operation has moved from 'rescue' to 'recovery' sad.

RhondaJean Sun 01-Dec-13 16:16:43

I should imagine counting people wasn't really on anyone's mind on Friday night. I am just so thankful that so MANY people, my friend included, seem to have been able to walk away.

I am irrationally scared tonight, DH has just left to meet his friend to travel to Glasgow for a meal and to see the Monday's at the O2, I know this is a once in a lifetime event but I'm finding it hard to settle.

squoosh Sun 01-Dec-13 16:22:05

I saw a helicopter in the sky this morning and thought 'everyone who sees that will immediately think of Friday night', I'm pretty sure it will have been uppermost in the minds of the crew on board too.

MrsBramleyApple Sun 01-Dec-13 18:00:23

I went to a Christingle Service this afternoon and we remembered the people of Glasgow in our prayers. I also lit candles in the prayer table before i left church.
I am watching the two sisters now on the news and am crying!

ssd Sun 01-Dec-13 20:08:26

Rhonda, I can understand your fear sad

Rhonda, I hope your DH has a lovely night out, you can relax a bit and he'll soon be home again.
I totally understand how you'd feel like this just now x.

They crew have been named as Cptn Dave Traill, PC Tony Collins, and PC Kirsty Nelis. Just realised I new Tony, albeit, not well at all. So so sad, feeling even more upset now, and wishing I was back home in Glasgow.

ssd Sun 01-Dec-13 20:53:09

ds2 knows his son sad, very very sad for those concerned.

Didiandb Sun 01-Dec-13 21:09:18

I am probably going to get flamed for this...

I'm really struggling with the grief porn (I think that's what it's called) on my Facebook over the past day or so.

People who have no connection to anything at all, people who sometimes don't even care about police are all over with lengthy poems and tears and big posts on how sad they are.

I feel like screaming you have no idea!!! DH is in bits his colleagues are in bits and he is not close family. I can't imagine how they feel.

I hate everyone speculating and occasionally getting angry with the slow recovery process.

And I can't really even talk about it because DH has told me things that are private.

Have I made sense? Maybe I'm just tired. I think I am taking a break from Facebook for a little while.

ssd Sun 01-Dec-13 21:11:34

facebook is the work of the devil

squoosh Sun 01-Dec-13 21:19:53

Yes there are some people who bare their souls in a really tacky, mawkish and attention seeking way on facebook but I think it's okay for people who are unconnected to events to have had a strong reaction to it. It's inevitable that when something happens close to home people will be strongly affected by it.

I don't have any facebook friends who display this kind of behaviour, all I can see is shock and empathy.

ArtisanLentilWeaver Sun 01-Dec-13 21:24:42

Didi, yes, what you write does make sense but I think that some people (who were not directly connected to those lost) need an outlet to share their shock and bewilderment. I suppose it is their way of grieving and sharing their experiences of loss.

Take a break from Facebook. I wish I had the right words to offer you and your dh comfort but I don't know what to say. Your dh, his colleagues and their families are in so many people's thoughts even although they are strangers to them.
Try to get some sleep as that in itself is healing.

Didi - what Artisan says makes sense. I read your post earlier about your DH and wanted to say something but had no idea what. So I said nothing but have been thinking of you both all day. I get what you are saying and understand that some of the FB stuff seems mawkish but most people are trying, however clumsily, to show sympathy.

Didiandb Sun 01-Dec-13 21:39:07

Thanks artisan, I suppose I hadn't thought that people are thinking of them.

I don't tend to write big personal outbursts on Facebook, I don't really agree with it but others do and I can normally just ignore and think everyone is different. But it's really got to me tonight.

Just sent DH out the door back to work. He will probably be back at the site again. It's just horrible but I feel I have no right to b upset! Somewhere out there are families who's husbands/dads went to work or a night out and didn't come home. How can I be upset compared to what they must feel?!

Sleep would be lovely but unfortunately I have a DD who doesn't believe in sleep smile

Didiandb Sun 01-Dec-13 21:43:01

Thank you also cider.

This is DHs first major incident of this kind, and I am trying so hard just to be a strong support for him. But I don't talk to anyone about it so it's allbottled up, possibly making me a little irrational!

You can talk here. You don't even have to say much! Iykwim. It must be very hard.

I'm from Dublin and from what people have been saying about Glasgow and Glaswegians response, it reminds me very much of Dublin. I really feel for everyone and I'm sure most of the city is in shock.

RhondaJean Sun 01-Dec-13 22:01:41

Didi there are so many of us out here thinking of the people who have to deal with the aftermath of this.

There is nothing we can do that is concrete to help, but we would if we could.

And there is always a space and an ear here for you, any time you need.

MrsWedgeAntilles Sun 01-Dec-13 22:43:58

Squoosh, I heard one over head today too and just thought how brave you'd need to be to fly in one today.

Your poor DP Nomoreloser but very relieved to hear he is now safe.

Didi, I do understand what you mean with 'grief porn' - everybody want a piece of the 'action' hmm.
Your DH will have to find a way to come to terms with what he has experienced and it might take a while. I don't think that there is much you can do to actively make it go away.

And yes, FB is just hideous. Step away just now if it is upsetting.
{hugs} to you both.

Panda29 Mon 02-Dec-13 01:16:19

I totally understand what you're feeling re "grief porn". I have no connection with anyone directly involved in this tragedy, so far as I know, other than geography. I live near the Clyde just along the water from the Clutha.

Last weekend the helicopter hovered over my roof as it often has in the past. Knowing that many of the North Sea helicopter "incidents" do not get anywhere near the media, I've worried for a long time that something like this would happen sooner or later. I stayed up until the wee small hours until I couldn't keep my eyes open on Friday night. I got up too soon because I couldn't stay safe in my bed whilst there was a possibility that someone was trapped cold, injured and frightened in the rubble a couple of miles away as the crow flies.

I can't believe that life has been going on as normal for many people in the West of Scotland as this horrible drama unfolds. I see posts on FB of people putting their Christmas trees up today whereas yesterday they were declaring sorrow at this disaster. The whole FB phenomenon of support pages springing up with thousands of likes in next to no time. Some of what is being posted lacks empathy and consideration for families still holding their breath and waiting. Most posters from these online communities have NOTHING to do with the families and friends of victims yet they presume to speak for them? Some poor souls are waiting in anguish not knowing if their loved ones are alive or dead and possibly torturing themselves with imagined suffering. Surely we can hold a silent vigil until the last body is out safe? Memorial services and fund raising are for the future. The incident is far from over. Far from safe for those involved in the rescue and recovery operation. My heart breaks for the suffering I see on the faces of those relatives anxiously waiting and for the loss of so many lives.

RhondaJean Mon 02-Dec-13 01:19:11

They have found a ninth body in the rubble.

Terrible news.

Didiandb Mon 02-Dec-13 02:30:00

Panda you have summed up perfectly how I feel!! I do not understand the culture of "liking" pages upon pages of tributes and then sticking ur Christmas tree up! I know life goes on but for the families this will be the a horrible time of year!

A "friend" on Facebook this morning who has a tiny connection to the police named a crew member from the helicopter before the name was public. A big post of how he had met them once and rip. But the person hadn't been named, now I suspect most of the force knew the names of the crew by then but out of respect stayed quiet. He got about 40 sympathetic comments but how was it respectful of the family?!

Grrr that's been annoying me all day!

I suspect the death number will rise but if I was family and waiting for news I would not give up any hope and these candle things on Facebook would be annoying me. (Not that I'd be on Facebook cause I'm sure I'd have more important stuff)

Thank you everyone for offering a safe place to talk. It is helping to get it off my chest and it has helped me to know that genuinely people are thinking of the emergency services just now.

Dh and I were in Boston on 9/11, just about to leave our hotel when the news came on in the lobby that a plane had crashed in to one of the Twin Towers. We watched the 2nd one crash live on TV.
To this day I cannot describe our emotions or the reactions of those around us - because the planes had originated from Boston the overwhelming majority of passengers were from the city. Everybody knew somebody who had perished, or knew somebody who knew somebody or was almost going to board one of those flights (Boston is really not that big). It gave a dimension to that catastrophe well beyond the political to be amongst a community so horribly bereaved. The full page obituaries that followed in the days after were just heartbreaking.

I've been thinking of this in the last few days since the crash in Glasgow. Not the same scale, no terrorists etc but the same suddenness, 'didn't see it coming' horror and quite similar reactions in the community.
IME disatsers like this bring out the best in people (running towards the pub rather than away from it, emergency services working as long as it took rather than to the end of their shift, drs turning up in A+E departments before they had been called, shops providing food and drink at all hours) AND sadly the worst (that intrusive reporter, some of the excesses of 'grief porn', attention seeking behaviours. FB makes everything worse because it encouraged 'showing off' IMO).

This is still so raw; it's going to take weeks and months for events to sink in and for people affected beginning to come to terms with what happened.

Love and light to all of you x.

Pinkpartysprinkles Mon 02-Dec-13 12:28:24

Panda I completely agree with you, I only moved to Glasgow in September. I've been past the Clutha many times since I arrived here but have not visited and yet do still feel sadness for all those involved in this awful accident. I am however embarrassed that a friend felt it appropriate to tag me in in a Facebook status saying how relieved she was that I am ok despite the fact that she knew I was at home on Friday evening and nowhere near it.

It definitely felt like some opportunity to show how much she "cared" but I feel it showed disrespect for those who have genuine reason to be relieved and also against those who will not be able to feel the relief but only grieve for the loved ones they have lost.

It's been a privilege though to be in this wonderful city and witness first hand the compassion of Glasgow's lovely people at this time of sorrow.

Nicknacky Mon 02-Dec-13 13:09:01

So sad watching rage private ambulances drive the deceased from the scene. I had a real lump in my throat watching the emergency services salute. I haven't saluted since training (I think) and I really really hope I don't ever have to.

IrnBruTheNoo Mon 02-Dec-13 13:13:33

I think it's been extremely sad watching it on the news. DH slightly suspicious that the helicopter could not have landed in the middle of the street, why the roof?? And the day before St. Andrew's Day?

Nicknacky Mon 02-Dec-13 13:15:32

What does your H mean? There is no way the pilot attempted to land on the roof deliberately.

IrnBru, please keep your conspiracy theories to yourself please. There is an ongoing investigation into why this happened. I doubt the date will play any part in the conclusions.

I find your comment very disrespectful and unnecessary.

squoosh Mon 02-Dec-13 13:19:25

I think there was a suggestion the pilot may have mistaken the Clutha's flat felt roof for the ground.

Not sure what your husband thinks St Andrew's Day has to do with the crash. Some people love to dream up a conspiracy.

I am no pilot, but it is my understanding that helicopters have only v little forward drift when their rotors are not working unlike planes which can glide and manoeuvre for quite a while.
There has been speculation that the pilot was trying to ditch in the Clyde or even on the rather wide road outside the pub.

I think these kind of questions will need to be answered by technical experts.

I am so sorry for the people still waiting to hear about loved ones - the pain of the couple of the news who were unhappy with the progress of the recovery operation was so obvious. I hope they find closure soon. I know they'll be hoping against hope, but I for one cannot seen anybody being pulled out alive now sad.

Nicknacky Mon 02-Dec-13 13:23:04

A suggestion from who though? The pilot was well used to the location, the base was two miles away.

And from eye witness accounts, the helicopter was in free fall therefore not making any kind of controlled landing.

And experienced pilots are not going to attempt to land in an area where injury and death would be inevitable. Glasgow green, a huge car park and the Clyde are all seconds away, he would aim for there first and foremost. All aviation experts that have been interviewed have all stated the idea of him attempting to land there was unlikely.

squoosh Mon 02-Dec-13 13:27:32

I cannot remember it was amongst the hundreds of people they've interviewed on the news. No one knows exactly what happened that's why the police are appealing to anyone with phone footage of the crash to send it in to them.

Eye witness accounts can't really be relied upon for any kind of accuracy.

BumPotato Mon 02-Dec-13 13:28:23

With all due dis respect irnbru, your DH is talking out of his arse.

Nicknacky Mon 02-Dec-13 13:34:28

Exactly squoosh. The news interviewed a girl on Friday night who was in the pub and she was the first to suggest that. But a shocked, stunned member of the public who is making shocked statements aren't going to be able to accurately comment on the reasons for the accident. I mean absolutely no disrespect to here.

And police routinely ask for video footage, perfectly normal for a major enquiry.

squoosh Mon 02-Dec-13 13:36:12

I know they routinely ask, I wasn't suggesting there was anything unusual about this.

IrnBruTheNoo Mon 02-Dec-13 13:44:52

Sorry, they are not my suspicions, but DH's. I think it's ridiculous to claim it's a conspiracy, why would anyone want to kill others, regardless of what day it was.

Didiandb Mon 02-Dec-13 13:46:58

Irnbru with all respect.... Ur husband is an idiot.

I can hand on heart say that the pilot will have done everything he could to avoid any loss of life.

And as for the date?! Wtf?

Take ur daft conspiracies elsewhere and have some respect for the people involved.

IrnBruTheNoo Mon 02-Dec-13 13:48:01

Oh please, don't get on your high horse! I've already stated it's not my POV. I cannot see any motive to someone crashing a helicopter deliberately into a pub.

Nicknacky Mon 02-Dec-13 13:48:37

Irnbru, why even post that if you think it's ridiculous?

Shenanagins Mon 02-Dec-13 13:48:38

How on earth can you get a conspiracy out of a tragic accident which is still being investigated and bodies being pulled from the wreckage. Beggars belief.

IrnBruTheNoo Mon 02-Dec-13 13:50:32

Believe it or not, several others will also be thinking this. It's not that unusual considering 2014 is the year of the Scottish Referendum. I cannot see the link, it's just a tragic accident that no one had any control over.

IrnBruTheNoo Mon 02-Dec-13 13:51:00

Some people need to read posts properly rather than going on a witch hunt.....

Didiandb Mon 02-Dec-13 13:51:13

Irnbru if it's not ur point of view and you think it's stupid. Why post it?

If you had bothered to read the thread people on here have been affected in many ways. Your post is at best misguided and at worst stirring for a fight.

squoosh Mon 02-Dec-13 13:52:05

confused

I can't even imagine a scenario where this crash would benefit either side of the referendum debate. Hionestly, your husband needs to take a long walk in the fresh air and gain some perspective.

Shenanagins Mon 02-Dec-13 13:53:26

Fucking hell, i have just watched the news seeing the procession of ambulances carrying dead bodies and the grief stricken all around and you are posting such crap. Bloody hell at least have some respect for all those affected.

Nicknacky Mon 02-Dec-13 13:53:41

I'm struggling who the "others" are that believe that. Though possibly the same half wits that posted on police Scotland's facebook calling them murderers.

And we all read your post properly.

IrnBruTheNoo Mon 02-Dec-13 13:55:57

I've already said it's upsetting for people who are affected. I think you're reading the parts you want to read, and missing out the rest.

Nicknacky Mon 02-Dec-13 13:56:58

What bit are we missing?

IrnBruTheNoo Mon 02-Dec-13 13:59:14

No need to start a fight on a thread...I was giving alternatives to what others out there are thinking about the whole tragedy. It affects people differently.

Shenanagins Mon 02-Dec-13 13:59:27

You posted that shit, noone else. That is seriously fucked up.

IrnBruTheNoo Mon 02-Dec-13 14:00:10

Shenanigins sorry, I'm going to have to report your post. That's totally offensive.

squoosh Mon 02-Dec-13 14:01:21

Oh yeah, she's the offensive one.

Didiandb Mon 02-Dec-13 14:01:54

Don't think shenanigans post is the offensive one!

Have some respect and take your husbands crap elsewhere. Maybe over to the people who think the crash was due to Scotland's take on gay marriage? Utterly ridiculous.

Oh guys, chill it!
This is not helpful - to anybody.

It'll be a while before we'll know what happened that might, and we might never know.

IrnBruTheNoo Mon 02-Dec-13 14:02:33

Since when have I used foul language in order to get my point across? Totally unnecessary. It's upsetting for everyone. Apologies if I've caused any offence by my previous comments.

Nicknacky Mon 02-Dec-13 14:02:44

No Irnbru, you are offensive for implying that a police helicopter was deliberately flown into a pub whilst hiding behind saying it's your H's opinion. His opinion counts for shit, thankfully.

No where has it even been suggested it is pilot error, never mind negligence/murder.

Shenanagins Mon 02-Dec-13 14:03:38

Please go ahead and report away. If you had bothered to read this thread you will see that there are people who have been directly affected by this.

IrnBruTheNoo Mon 02-Dec-13 14:05:08

I have already stated I do not believe there is any conspiracy theory behind it. I personally believe it's been a tragic accident. I cannot put it any plainer than this!

Shenanagins Mon 02-Dec-13 14:06:30

Then why even post such crap on this thread, do you not see how upsetting that is?

Nicknacky Mon 02-Dec-13 14:07:09

I should possibly point out three of my colleagues died in this crash......

ProfondoRosso Mon 02-Dec-13 14:09:02

Agree with Pacific - this isn't helpful to anyone.

One thing I do recall from all the news I've read/heard/seen these past few days is that it seems the pilot switched off the engines before the helicopter fell, and that's what probably prevented an explosion. If that's the case, then it would seem that the last thoughts going through the poor soul's mind were for the safety of others.

Didiandb Mon 02-Dec-13 14:11:06

Nicknaky I'm so sorry. How are you holding up?

Shenanagins Mon 02-Dec-13 14:12:32

nicknacky i am very sorry to hear that.

Nicknacky Mon 02-Dec-13 14:16:52

Thanks for the condolences but I didn't know them, colleagues in sense I work not far from glasgow and have called upon their assistance on more occasions than I wanted to. I didn't mean to imply I knew them personally.

I'm on mat leave (baby arriving tomorrow eek) so feeling quite detached from it. Several colleagues have been sent to assist in the investigation.

Just gets my blood boiling when ill thought comments are made. Thanks for your support guys.

Didiandb Mon 02-Dec-13 14:21:45

Off topic good luck with the baby nicknacky smile

Even though you don't know them it's still a shock

DH knows the crew and was at the scene but even apart from that I'm just struggling with how precious life is and how you really never know what's about to happens. The last 2 nights DH has left for work DD and I have given him extra cuddles. It's really made me appreciate what I have.

I've been avoiding news and Facebook today, don't have the heart for anymore sadness.

Shenanagins Mon 02-Dec-13 14:32:05

I am sorry for the derailment but i had just watched the news and found such a view abhorrent.

nicknacky hope all goes well, new borns are so snuggly. It is only natural you will feel upset about your colleagues, this makes it personal as you can connect to the person behind the pictures if that makes sense

didiandb, your poor dh, i hope you all are able to find some peace through this difficult time.

Nicknacky Mon 02-Dec-13 14:32:44

Thank you Dib.

It has made me think, when we go to work it really doesn't cross your mind that you may not be coming home. And I can't help but think that's what the flight crew would also be thinking, just another routine night.

I'm sorry your H knows them, it shocks everyone x

Nicknacky, I am sorry it's so close to your sphere and hope you can put it out of you mind just now. Newborns have a way of being rather distracting smile - v best of luck for tomorrow.

May just also point out that people who have been previously bereaved, for all sorts of reasons, not just accidents, are affected by these events because they know from experience all to close to them what it feel like to lose a brother, sister, child, parent.
So please be considerate in what you post.

I am sure there will be many, many conspiracy theories flying about the interweb... hmm

Ubik1 Mon 02-Dec-13 14:44:10

I don't really know what to say about why all this happened. We'll know in good time, once the investigation is complete. Conspiracy theories - meh, there's always some armchair 'expert' somewhere claiming this and that...

Was pondering this afternoon about the grief experienced by the wider public when something like this happens. I remember covering the death of Diana when I was a reporter, and the genuine emotion of people who never knew her. One man told me he had not cried so much since his father died - and I think there is something in that. These tragedies do underline how precious life is, it brings back loves and losses for everyone.

Ubik1 Mon 02-Dec-13 14:45:18

Oh pacific has put it rather better than me smile

expatinscotland Mon 02-Dec-13 14:53:22

That pilot's family has known incredible loss and tragedy in the past 4 years. It is appalling to assume this horrible accident that resulted in all these deaths was anything other than what it was: an accident.

ssd Mon 02-Dec-13 20:17:40

I didnt know that expat, how awful for them as a family sad.

AuntieStella Mon 02-Dec-13 22:11:27

A public tragedy can also drag up earlier grief.

Do others remember Birmingham in 1974, when 21 people out for a drink in a pub never made it home because of the bombing, and nearly 200 were injured? Different time and place, but a memory reawakened.

Re the grief porn. I remember when one of my closest friends from about 10 till 19, died in an horrific fire accident. exacerbated by drug use.

I had no name for it then, but the personal outrage I felt when all her druggie mates came round to her mums house to mourn made me feel sick to my heart. I only wish I had know the phrase then. grief vampires more like.

I have just realised I think I have never dealt with that.

Yes. Tragedies touch us all. Through remembrance of tragedies past, personal and or on a bigger scale, such as touch our communities.

And the oddest connections. Such as the twin towers. sitting with an NCT friend holding our babies, waiting for news of her friend who was on the 103 floor of south tower.

We can all be touched and appalled by tragedy. But it is not ours to colonise at the expense of the real immediate grief of those profoundly affected.

BumPotato Tue 03-Dec-13 12:33:41

Grief wankers I call it. Tony Blair started it after Diana died.

I was moved to tears and switched off the tele yesterday w