stuart hall haa pleaded guilty

(114 Posts)
mouseymummy Thu 02-May-13 10:31:13

The entertainer Stuart hall has pleaded guilty to the sex offences he was charged with... I believe one was against a 9yo girl.

I was shocked by him being arrested.... Now, I'm just saddened.

BBC news has reported this on the website, ill link in a minute.

mouseymummy Thu 02-May-13 10:32:39

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-22379286

This is the link.

mouseymummy Thu 02-May-13 10:33:48
HotheadPaisan Thu 02-May-13 10:34:37

Does that mean the women won't have to go through giving evidence at a trial? I really hope so. Well done to them for coming forward, must have been very, very difficult.

I believe every single person coming forward about abuse, I hope there are many convictions and this sees a massive change in how we respond to those reporting rape and sexual assault.

finickypinickity Thu 02-May-13 10:35:53

Thank God the women dont have to stand up in court and re live the whole experience.

mouseymummy Thu 02-May-13 10:47:41

Yes, the next stage will be him being sentenced but the awful thing is, due to his age and health I don't think he is going to be punished.... I honestly think he may walk away from court... That does not sit well.

I'm honestly, so grateful that these women have had the courage to come forward, hopefully there will now be more women believed and this will lead to a higher conviction rate for rape and sexual assault, not just against women but men too.

georgedawes Thu 02-May-13 10:48:53

Three months after dismissing the allegations against him as "pernicious, callous, cruel and above all spurious", he was forced to admit that his victims had been telling the truth.
www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/may/02/stuart-hall-admits-sexual-abuse-girls

what a nasty man.

mouseymummy Thu 02-May-13 10:49:14

He's apologised to his victims outside court... Omfg...

HotheadPaisan Thu 02-May-13 10:49:37

Surely not, I very much doubt it. Do they consider other complaints when sentencing as they do with other crimes or just sentence on the charges so far? Surely if no prison others will just come forward. He will go to prison, am sure of it, they were very young.

schilke Thu 02-May-13 10:51:16

Same as you mouseymummy. I used to love listening to his football reports on 5live. Feel let down - if that makes sense.

schilke Thu 02-May-13 10:54:55

Not sure if that came out right. He is an awful man. Those women were very brave. Another man from childhood telly who was not as he seemed.

mouseymummy Thu 02-May-13 10:58:35

When he is sentenced it will be for the charges he's admitted in court.

My feeling is he's 85 and from what I've read, not in the best of health. I fear he may walk away with a suspended sentence... No matter what sentence he gets, it won't be enough imo, I have a dd who will be 9 in June so I'm rather affected by that iyswim.

Schlike, yes, let down kinda sums it up. Rh was another I was shocked by, the rest of the people arrested I've always felt something against them, never felt comfortable watching them on screen.

mouseymummy Thu 02-May-13 11:03:48

George, just read that article... It would seem like the man has no shame and was probably willing to go through with the trial until better advised.

I'm just hoping that this all comes to an outcome where women and children are believed and supported properly as they should have been then.

Over the last few days Ive seen and heard people question whether these historic cases should go ahead as it would be hard to prove such old abuse. This just goes to show that yes it is right that these men should be held for account, however long ago.

I hope now all theseamazing woman who had the courage to come forward and who were young children at the time, can feel that they have been heard and believed.

mouseymummy Thu 02-May-13 11:46:46

Well said dreams... Hopefully, all the victims in these cases will get justice.

SoupDragon Thu 02-May-13 12:02:55

due to his age and health I don't think he is going to be punished

I imagine there are other punishments than a custodial sentence. Every one knows who he is and what he has done.

Lottapianos Thu 02-May-13 12:09:55

I really hope this news gives all the naysayers a long difficult pause for thought - like my colleague who was talking yesterday about how these women (in the Bill Roache allegations) should have done something about it at the time, and it's all getting a bit silly with bringing up all these old allegations.

I think it's really good news and I hope it brings some peace to the women (girls at the time of course) he abused. Vile man.

I agree that having his reputation so thoroughly destroyed and so near the end of his life will be a huge punishment for him, but I do think he deserves a custodial sentence as well.

olgaga Thu 02-May-13 12:14:51

How awful. I applaud his victims for their bravery in coming forward.

Feel rather sad for his family and friends who supported him, no doubt this will have been a massive shock to them.

specialsubject Thu 02-May-13 12:15:14

I am saddened and disillusioned too. However I don't see much point taking up a prison place with him, and paying to feed and house him. He is sufficiently well-known that he is not a risk to the public - no-one is going to give him any opportunity to commit the crimes ever again.

He is shamed, shown to be a liar as well as a criminal and proven guilty in his lifetime. Justice is done, and he will not go to his grave laughing as did Jimmy Savile.

EldritchCleavage Thu 02-May-13 12:16:21

How dreadful that his previous solicitor characterised the complaints as 'a clear pursuit of celebrity'. Ugh.

So sickened by this. He probably thought that as he just put his hand up a girl's dress it wouldn't matter. She was 9 at the time sad.

Bastard.

AnyaKnowIt Thu 02-May-13 12:31:55

What a vile excuse of a man.

I do hope he goes to prison.

pickledginger Thu 02-May-13 12:33:41

To all those who have suffered abuse, we believe you.

I don't care when it happened, we believe you.

HotheadPaisan Thu 02-May-13 12:37:43

He must go to prison, it will be an absolute travesty if he doesn't.

HotheadPaisan Thu 02-May-13 12:38:55

He has to lose his liberty, I will be absolutely shocked if he doesn't. What message would that send?

I hope he does go to prison, he is a child abuser, he needs to serve his sentence like everyone else.

StealthOfficialCrispTester Thu 02-May-13 13:02:14

I didnt know who this guy was till now but am shocked at a 9yo victim sad if he walks "free" let's hope he is shunned by all his family and friends for the remainder of his (hopefully short) life.

mouseymummy Thu 02-May-13 13:07:05

I'm still feeling very shaken by hid full statement from outside the court.

"his disgrace is complete" personally, is say his disgrace was complete the moment he said the women were lying outside the court a few short weeks ago.

The women and children have had to live with this for a hell of a long time and have thought long and hard about coming forward, they've probably tied themselves up in knots trying to work our if this was the right thing to do or not. Then to sit through police interviews and relive what they went through at his hands. No matter how well handled by the police, its going to be a very harrowing experience and they will have suffered, then, on top of all that, to be so publicly accused of lying and "persuing a celebrity" is vile, disgusting and quite frankly, sick.

We believe you

donnie Thu 02-May-13 13:08:50

he is a paedophile and sex offender. He belongs in prison. I don't give a fuck how old or infirm he is.

AnyaKnowIt Thu 02-May-13 13:09:34

And not forgetting the fact that he said that the false claims nearly drove him to suicide. Evil, evil, evil man.

StealthOfficialCrispTester Thu 02-May-13 13:21:41

Oh yes sorry, please don't infer from my post I think he should be spared prison. But if he is, let's hope life on the outside's pretty miserale

Did he plead guilty in the hope of a non custodial sentence I wonder?

LineRunner Thu 02-May-13 13:38:54

Probably, Dreams, probably. But this is a really siginficant guilty plea. Like you said upthread, the naysayers will have to stick this one in their pipes.

Just wow.

finickypinickity Thu 02-May-13 13:42:40

Another 3 Australian women are alleging abuse by Rolf harris.

Its just shock after shock and i hope Stuart Hall spends a long time looking at 4 prison cell walls thinking about that vile statement he made at the very beginning of this. It just shows what a disgusting man he is.

I'm with donnie. Age and fragility should be no protection from the law.

edam Thu 02-May-13 13:52:15

BBC report says he was allowed to sit with his barristers in court rather than in the dock - why? Why should someone who did horrible horrible things and then lied about them in public, accusing his victims of lying, be given special favours - even if he is in his 80s?

finickypinickity Thu 02-May-13 14:00:20

It must be a bit odd for his legal team who were defending him as a poor innocent victim of being wrongly accused and then the big turn around and oops i forgot to mention i'm guilty.

Do legal teams just defend or do they genuinely have to believe the defendant is innocent?

lisaro Thu 02-May-13 14:16:56

If it hadn't been made obvious to him that he'd more than likely be found guilty he would still be spouting his evil lies and slander. He has also trued to play the sympathy card with reference s to ill health and downfall. He is a thoroughly rotten human, through and through. Ive rarely seen such evil.

LineRunner Thu 02-May-13 14:17:43

I just heard on the radio his mitgation is that 'it wasn't the worst kind of sexual abuse', it was kissing and touching over clothes. Of a 9 year old. FFS.

Yeah, I think he's going for a funny handshake suspended sentence.

pickledginger Thu 02-May-13 14:21:27

He seems to have changed legal representation between 'dismissing the allegations against him as "pernicious, callous, cruel and above all spurious"' and admitting them.

Lottapianos Thu 02-May-13 14:22:36

'I just heard on the radio his mitgation is that 'it wasn't the worst kind of sexual abuse', it was kissing and touching over clothes'

For the love of all that's sane! These people are so utterly sick and disgusting.

noddyholder Thu 02-May-13 14:25:45

I think he probably has tales to tell that could implicate others so fear his punishment may be anything but because of what he knows. unbelievable when you see his indignant denials only weeks ago sad

Acandlelitshadow Thu 02-May-13 14:31:59

I am hugely hopeful he will go to prison based on personal experience.

Age should never be a valid barrier to justice.

StealthOfficialCrispTester Thu 02-May-13 14:35:06

Lotta. Worrying thing is that he probably genuinely believes that what he did wasn't so bad. He probably believes she was complicit in some way.
I am starting to think that some people are plain evil.
On the bill roach thread ( who I appreciate has not been convicted). Some people were saying how can he remember that far back. I said I'd remember a crime I'd committed all my life. But actually they're right, some people wouldn't see this sort of thing as a crime. Woukdnt remember it any more than I remember doing 34 in a 30 limit 6 years ago.

GirlWithOneEye Thu 02-May-13 14:35:14

I think it's unlikely he will go to prison - we have seen worse in the news and people have got away.
Like other posters have said, the fact he pleaded guilty will go in his favour - which is obviously wrong.
Such a shame that essentially, he will still get away with it, I really dont think he'll get a custodial sentence.

Does anyone know if he will be stripped of his OBE?
He just got it in, 2012 new years eve!

Trazzletoes Thu 02-May-13 14:39:13

finicky you don't have to genuinely believe a person is innocent. But if your client admits the crime to you, then you can't continue to represent them unless they plead guilty.

Lottapianos Thu 02-May-13 14:39:47

You're probably right Stealth - lots of people think awful things like 'you know what young girls are like', 'she probably led him on', 'he was surrounded by all these young birds, what was he supposed to do???'

I hope, I really do, that people's attitudes will change with all these high profile cases coming out. The whole thing is so sad

He bloody should be.

finickypinickity Thu 02-May-13 14:43:45

Thanks Trazzle maybe he didnt see anything wrong with his past behaviour like Stealth saidhmm

Thats why he needs to go to prison so he can have the time to have a think about what he has done wrong, and let others know that it is wrong and no one is above the law, and time will not eradicate the crime.

StealthOfficialCrispTester Thu 02-May-13 14:51:40

Hopefully if he goes to jail the other prisoners will let him know

Dawndonna Thu 02-May-13 15:08:23
LineRunner Thu 02-May-13 15:29:28

The headline of Dawndonna's BBC link is Stuart Hall told 5 Live: 'Any 10-year-old can instruct you in oral or anal sex'. Comments eight years ago had been defended as 'satirical banter' by BBC.

I reminded of the MN tenet on Relationships that when a man tells you what he is, start listening.

Fuicking scary.

lisaro Thu 02-May-13 17:47:49

It'll be interesting to see if his wife leaves him. I know it's extremely early days but I could only judge somebody that condones this as complicit.

everlong Thu 02-May-13 18:31:48

Oh my god. The bastard.

A nine year old girl. Let's hope he gets all he deserves.

mouseymummy Thu 02-May-13 18:36:10

Lisaro, if she knew I think she should be charged with perverting the course of justice tbh. If she didn't know about it then, I really feel for her, to find out something like this after so many years must be difficult but if she knew....

donnie Thu 02-May-13 18:38:38

just read dawndonna's link.....bloody hell.

And what is to be said about the BB fucking C and their complicity.....Hall.....Saville....bunch of arses IMO. Who else have they been shielding ?

Their refusal to condemn this sort of thing AT THE TIME is tantamount to encouragement.

northender Thu 02-May-13 18:52:34

This is the first of these kind of threads I've posted on. When I was 15 I was assaulted in a similar way to those described in this case. It was a man who owned a restaurant I worked in. It was the most awful thing that ever happened to me, affected me profoundly and still does. I felt no-one would believe me, my parents felt no-one would believe me so I said nothing. Years later I found out he had been accused of rape but was acquitted in court. I now carry guilt that I never said anything.
But the point of my post was to say, however "minor" these things appear to some people (not posters on here obv) they are far from minor and I hope all the perpetrators are made to pay.

LineRunner Thu 02-May-13 19:00:07

northender I am so sorry about what happened to you. I think this guilty plea by Stuart Hall is really very significant because no-one can bleat on about a 'bad verdict'. He did it. The victims are telling the truth.

I hope this marks a new era, somehow, of girls being believed and supported.

Jux Thu 02-May-13 19:08:00

I believe you, northender.

I hope this case along with the others being investigated atm, show people that it's never too late.

SH is a nasty piece of work. Sincerely hope he's chucked into prison and gets all he deserves while there.

The BBC are pathetic.

everlong Thu 02-May-13 19:10:38

Northender I'm so sorry that happened to you sad

IDoTakeTwo Thu 02-May-13 19:15:36

What an utterly vile man. He certainly deserves to go to prison.

Fwiw, a prison I visit as a volunteer, is needing to install mobility aids, as a significant number of sex offenders, who can be quite elderly when their crimes finally catch up with them, are being sentenced.

In addition, a proportion of sex offenders,seem to carry injuries which can impair their mobility. I don't know how, or by whom.

CFSKate Thu 02-May-13 19:19:15
northender Thu 02-May-13 20:19:18

Your support means a lot, thank you. I'm lucky to have a really supportive dh who I can talk to about this but I find I don't talk to others about it much as it seems too trivial for want of a better word. I know it's not trivial, I cried as I wrote that last post.
I wish all his victims strength and peace.

Dawndonna Thu 02-May-13 20:25:28

I'm so sorry northender. I can only hope that these awful cases will give some sort of hope to others. You are very brave and I wish you strength and peace, too.
x

HotheadPaisan Thu 02-May-13 20:25:34

I wish there was a way to electronically and possibly even anonymously log incidents with whatever details you can remember and it alls gets compiled and finds a link if there is one to be found. At the very least it would get the reports in the system.

everlong Thu 02-May-13 20:26:55

I haven't been in your situation Northender so I won't say I know how it feels but I know 100% that what happened to you was in no way trivial. Far from it.
I'm glad you have a supportive family I'm sure it helps you.

flowers

northender Thu 02-May-13 20:30:00

I've been thinking about that actually. I may speak to the police without naming names and try to find out what I could do. I think he is still alive and I am quite sure there will have been many other incidents. I can be reasonably specific on dates etc. I will consider that.

northender Thu 02-May-13 20:31:17

What a fab place Mumsnet is. You're all wonderful smile

finickypinickity Thu 02-May-13 20:37:57

CFSKate i hope the woman who wrote the letter was one of the victims that he has been held accountable for. Its all so sad.

Its about time they started pulling all of those in power who colluded and covered up a lot of this abuse up.

everlong Thu 02-May-13 20:38:26

I think this whole situation with Jimmy Saville, Stuart Hall etc just shows that even after many years woman can come forward and tell the police what has happened and be listened to and believed.

I can only think that that must feel a relief.

CredulousThicko Thu 02-May-13 20:39:54

CFSKateThu 02-May-13 19:19:15

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/how-i-exposed-stuart-halls-abuse-yasmin-alibhaibrown-on-the-anonymous-letter-that-kickstarted-the-sex-assault-investigation-8601517.html

"His mates, including an MP who is now a peer, she claims, helped Hall with his filthy hobby."

CFSKate, it now just says "His mates, she claims, helped Hall with his filthy hobby" has it been changed already?!

LineRunner Thu 02-May-13 20:42:09

The news I watched says that a rape charge is being 'held on file' and not being prosecuted in the public interest or words to that effect. What does that mean, does anyone know?

northender I hope you feel some sense of justice that one of these men said 'I am guilty'.

lisaro Thu 02-May-13 20:47:07

Mouseymummy sorry I wasnt clear. What I mean is; if she stays with him now hes actually admitted it, and can't deny it, then she condones it, then as far as I'm concerned, it would be almost as bad as him. Complicit wasn't quite the word, was it.

Clayhead Thu 02-May-13 20:57:20

LineRunner - it said on the radio it is so that that woman in question does not have to go to court to be questioned/have to relive everything etc. He will already be a convicted sex offender so making her go through that for him to get another conviction would not be worth the potential hurt for her, I think.

Billysilly Thu 02-May-13 20:58:40

I went through something similar as a child, almost definitely younger than nine. In my case it was a close relative who I only saw in the holidays. He used to isolate me from my family and play "smoochie" (kissing on mouth). It progressed to him wanting me to touch his penis. I stopped it in a lightening bolt moment when I saw a couple on TV kiss and I suddenly realised it was a grown up thing he was expecting me to do and not something I should be expected to do and I told my mum.

This was probably 30 years ago and something I now rarely think or talk about. The coverage today has given me cold shivers and made me cry. I'm glad these women are being listened to and believed. I hope society is moving on.

NotDavidTennant Thu 02-May-13 20:59:05

LineRunner - Frome the BBC news article on this story:

"Mr Afzal said the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) would not be proceeding with the rape charge as the woman who made the allegation no longer wished to give evidence in light of the guilty pleas."

suebfg Thu 02-May-13 21:01:42

I'm not shocked. I met him when I was about 9/10 years old at a horse show event and although my parents were there, I remember feeling uncomfortable on being introduced to him. It's too long ago to remember the detail - I remember that he kissed me but it is the feeling of uncomfortableness that I still remember.

HotheadPaisan Thu 02-May-13 21:04:50

Let's not turn this into blaming women, unless his wife groomed children for him or witnessed what he was doing then it is nothing to do with her.

These men are highly skilled manipulators, they choose who they target carefully and present a charming front to others. Only they are responsible for what they do.

Amazing he wasn't on their radar until the journalist handed the letter in, and great that the establishment honouring him led to one woman reporting. Well done to her.

Charges will be held back on the basis they had the option to re-arrest and charge him had he pleaded not guilty and been found not guilty at trial.

There will be scores if not hundreds of people he abused. They bring the strongest charges they have right now but once it goes public others come forward. There is strength in numbers and there needs to be.

Pan Thu 02-May-13 21:05:51

yes, the rape allegation 'lies on file' (sine die, in legal terms). One of the implications is that IF the woman concerned has a change of heart in the future about offering evidence, the CPS can resume the prosecution.

georgedawes Thu 02-May-13 22:06:10

Northender I'm sorry about what happened to you. And you Billy. It hasn't happened to me, but has to family members and it really had long lasting effects sad it's really brave of you to post.

If you wanted advice, I'm sure rape crisis would be a good place to call, they were amazing support for someone I know.

edam Thu 02-May-13 22:47:42

I think this is the same brave head of the CPS, Nazir Afzal, who decided to prosecute the Rochdale sex grooming gang and the parents of that poor girl who was murdered and whose body was hidden. Crimes that other authorities had turned away from pursuing and prosecuting because it was all too difficult and too culturally sensitive and the victims in the Rochdale case were not upright responsible middle class citizens but vulnerable girls living in care homes.

Thank heavens for him.

Pan Thu 02-May-13 22:50:36

It is the one and same person. He is/was head of CPS in the North-West.

edam Thu 02-May-13 22:53:43

Then I doff my cap to him. He really turned things around wrt to the Rochdale case and is clearly continuing to fight for victims to get justice.

LineRunner Fri 03-May-13 00:21:08

I hope MN can get Nazir Afzal on for a webchat, I would like to say thank you.

AnyFucker Fri 03-May-13 00:28:42

Nazir is bloody brilliant, of what I have seen

olgaga Fri 03-May-13 00:44:36

I wouldn't be at all surprised if he's the next DPP when Keir Starmer steps down at the end of this year (his 5 year term finishes).

I think Starmer has been pretty good too on domestic and sexual violence.

Sadly the police (with a few notable exceptions) and justice system is miles behind.

LineRunner Fri 03-May-13 08:36:47

By the way I just googled 'Stuart Hall MP who became a Lord'. That old Early Day Motion is interesting (with the benefit of hindsight of course).

NotDavidTennant Fri 03-May-13 08:53:41

I do wonder if his admission of guilt has been strategic, in that by admitting the 'lesser' charges of indecent assault he has avoided facing trial for the more serious offence of rape.

mouseymummy Fri 03-May-13 09:54:49

NotDavid, quite possible, however, as the rape charge has been "placed on file" if the woman chooses or if new evidence comes to light or someone else comes forward, then he will be tried for that too.

I really hope that no one else has suffered at the hands of this evil, vile piece of work, if they have then I pray that they have the strength and courage to come forward.

donnie Fri 03-May-13 11:06:19

He is on the front page of every newspaper today. I hope he feels utter shame and degredation. Because that is what he deserves.

Northender and Billysilly - you are brave and courageous and we all support you. People like the ones who abused you are calculating bullies.

iclaudius Fri 03-May-13 11:18:56

My abuser did that 'admission of lesser charges' bit - in the hope of getting off the court case
I still proceeded for mental health reasons as although the worst give days of my life - court was therapeutic
I didn't expect a oration sentence for my abusee but he got one - I think hall will
These arrogant middle class men
His wife won't leave him - he's rich

iclaudius Fri 03-May-13 11:19:49

Sorry must preview 'five ' days
Didn't expect a 'prison'

iclaudius Fri 03-May-13 11:20:25

'Abuser' gah sorry !!

Acandlelitshadow Fri 03-May-13 11:28:27

I don't know if his wife will leave him but partner or family standing by an abuser along with ostricising a victim who has spoken up and/or their supporters is astonishingly common.

MIL has chosen this route. I can only assume rather than live alone but as she's split the family irrevocably I don't suppose I'll ever find out.

iclaudius Fri 03-May-13 11:47:48

Acandlelitshadow my experience exactly - so common and heartbreaking for the victim

jennymac Fri 03-May-13 13:38:19

I don't understand why women stay with men who do this kind of thing. How could you even stand to breath the same air as them never mind share a house/bed?

boxershorts Fri 03-May-13 14:08:13

The BBC were regarded as tame and establishment in far off days. Little did we know

iclaudius Fri 03-May-13 17:07:48

Agree jenny

handcream Fri 03-May-13 17:18:26

Can someone tell me why women stand by these sorts of men. Its not the affairs as the underage element in all of this for me. One of the victims is 9 yrs old!

I am wondering if its the same reason why women stay with men who are violent to them - because perhaps they fear they dont want to be alone and there is no where to go.

iclaudius Fri 03-May-13 17:21:30

Money?

HotheadPaisan Fri 03-May-13 17:22:10

Not sure why the conversation should focus on women. What drove and enabled him to do what he did is the main question.

Pan Fri 03-May-13 17:38:04

There is the possibility that women remain with such men because they love them.

handcream Fri 03-May-13 17:41:54

I did wonder about money and status. I am a huge film fan - mainly old Hollywood films. Most of the leading men in Hollywood had affair after affair yet their wives clung on for dear life in many cases despite being treated with little respect.

And yes, a close relative had an abusive ex partner. She had no real reason to stay, well qualifed, very supportive family - yet she did and made excuse after excuse for him and worried her parents sick. The only reason it broke up was because HE decided it should finish.

She claimed she 'loved him'.

Acandlelitshadow Fri 03-May-13 18:31:31

I agree too, jennymac.

How it couldn't be a complete dealbreaker is beyond my comprehension. I do think in MIL's case that she had been subtly manipulated for years before the abuse came to light and these men (along with the predatory women who also offend) are of course masters of manipulation and deceit. That doesn't stop once they've been exposed.

iclaudius - I'm so glad your abuser got a jail sentence. Having fought all the way to the High Court for a review of 'our' perp's sentence and seeing it increased to a jail term (sadly less than it should have been but better than the nothing he got beforehand) I'm very hopeful Hall and others of his ilk will see the inside of a cell too.

HotheadPaisan Sat 04-May-13 07:35:38

Hall so sorry he's disposing of his assets to avoid compensation claims:

www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/may/04/stuart-hall-home

Jux Sat 04-May-13 11:16:10

Fear. Fear of the unknown, fear of being wrong, fear of all sorts of things. We have no idea what an abuser's spousal relationship can be like. We know that an awful lot of women are so scared of their husbands when they are the victims that they stay and stay despite all sorts of things which would normally be deal-breakers. I know a woman whose jaw was broken by her h. They're still together, even though he slaps their dd around too - and always did.

SH liked screwing young girls. That doesn't mean he was utterly wonderful as a husband. He could easily have bullied his wife, or beat her, or anything, so that she is a shell of what she was and has no faith in herself. Just like so women on the relationships boards here.

One form of abuse doesn't preclude any other taking place.

CFSKate Sat 04-May-13 11:19:32

CredulousThicko - how odd, it was there, I just copied and pasted it. It's mentioned on twitter.

iclaudius Sat 04-May-13 20:51:08

my family all stand by the abusive patriarch
he is wealthy
he buys people stuff

Acandlelitshadow Sun 05-May-13 11:13:25

Quite, iclaudius.

Abuser had plenty of support in court. Friends and family. Same people even when they heard exactly what he had done spelled out in evidence and a guilty plea. He's not wealthy so perhaps they justified it as supporting MIL. No difference to us.

And we are the bad guys for pursuing justice hmm

iclaudius Sun 05-May-13 14:22:15

A candle - similar story - loads of friends at the court all loud and proud. We were huddled in some hidden room - the irony
Hard to stomach!

lisaro Sun 05-May-13 14:45:33

And the sick bastard had akready started disposing of his assets to his wife. Sorry, but his wife is involved, even if she didnt actually touch the peopke herself. Evil bitch.

iclaudius Sun 05-May-13 15:12:36

Yes she's happy to have his assets in her name lest the poor unfortunates who are ruining her husbands life should hassle him for it

LineRunner Sun 05-May-13 18:29:37

If she's colluding, they should sue her.

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