5 year old kills his sister with his birthday gun in US

(84 Posts)
Slainte Wed 01-May-13 20:10:38

Title says it all, here's the link.

When will people fucking learn? angry

nancy75 Wed 01-May-13 20:16:03

The thought of buying a gun for a 5 year old really is nothing short of insane. This is such a terribly sad story which just did not need to happen

TallGiraffe Wed 01-May-13 20:19:06

It comes in a number of child-friendly barrel designs and colors, including hot pink for little girls. A host of accessories are also available, like story books and a gun-toting beanie baby of the rifle’s mascot, a cartoonish cricket.

Ugh. Ugh. Ugh.

Slainte Wed 01-May-13 20:27:08

That's the thing Nancy, completely unnecessary and yet you could see this tragedy coming a mile off if you leave a gun "in the corner of a room".

Oh Tall that part made my heckles go in to overdrive!

Hulababy Wed 01-May-13 20:29:25

"“Just one of those crazy accidents,” "

From the article.

sad Says it all doesn't it?

So easily preventable. Really, who in their right mind thinks a 5yo should have a gun?

Mollydoggerson Wed 01-May-13 20:30:25


How tragic for that little boy to have to live with that memory.

StealthOfficialCrispTester Wed 01-May-13 20:32:33

oh, awful, awful. Poor little girl and poor boy.

ginmakesitallok Wed 01-May-13 20:32:34

And he'd been given t the gun last year! The coroner has said it was just one of those crazy accidents. My 3 year old fell off the windowsill today, that was an accident. A 5 year old killing his 3 year old sister with his own gun is not a crazy accident. What sort of parent buys their 5 year old a gun.?.?

StealthOfficialCrispTester Wed 01-May-13 20:33:44


msrisotto Wed 01-May-13 20:35:00

WHEN WILL THEY LEARN???? It's SO frustrating, they're off their fucking rockers.

NeedsTherapy Wed 01-May-13 20:36:26

Hullababy, I didn't get past that sentence.
It's not just 'one of those crazy accidents' a gun was bought for a 5 year old, it was left in the corner of the room and no one checked to see I it was empty.

I would say its inevatable really.

FFS. Madness. And now that poor kid has to live with this for the rest of his life.

nancy75 Wed 01-May-13 20:40:18

I can almost accept that lots of people in the US feel they need / have a right to a gun, but I can't imagine any reason that a child would need one, or how anyone could think it a good idea to buy a gun for a child. I am also amazed that the parents of 2 small children would keep a gun in the corner

This is insanity. Who buys a gun for a four year old? Come to that what sort of sick idiot markets a gun for a four year old? And why would anybody keep a gun in the corner of a room?

WTFisABooyhooISBooyhoo Wed 01-May-13 20:46:35



unfortunately not [shocked] though.

WTFisABooyhooISBooyhoo Wed 01-May-13 20:47:09

or shock even.

Pan Wed 01-May-13 20:49:49

Sad truth is that this will make no difference at all to the power of the gun tootin lobby in the US.

Dawndonna Wed 01-May-13 21:13:14

God bless the NRA!

edam Wed 01-May-13 22:50:09

Oh good grief. How awful and stupid and easily preventable. WTF is the company selling this stuff thinking and what on earth were the parents thinking?

mercibucket Wed 01-May-13 22:53:46

darwin in action sad

ReallyTired Wed 01-May-13 22:54:44

That is so tragic. Prehaps the little boy did not realise it was a real gun or understand that his sister would die of he pulled the trigger.

It is not a crazy accident. The parents are guilty of manslaughter.

StealthOfficialCrispTester Wed 01-May-13 22:56:23

merci that's an awful thing to say

It beggars belief that his sister was protected from the dangers if Kinder Eggs but not a fucking rifle.

That poor child.sad

StealthOfficialCrispTester Wed 01-May-13 23:05:45

Both of them. My 6yo plays with toy guns and spiderman web shooters but he'd be a sobbing mess if one actually fired, never mind hurt someone else.

WTFisABooyhooISBooyhoo Wed 01-May-13 23:07:31

forgive my ignorance but what does 'darwin in action' mean?

StealthOfficialCrispTester Wed 01-May-13 23:08:45

I assume it means survival of the fittest/removal of the gene pool of people who aren't worthy.
Apologies if this is not the case but I have no idea how else to take it.

AThingInYourLife Wed 01-May-13 23:13:42

"darwin in action"


Are you trying to say that this little girl died because she was less biologically "fit" than others?!

Fucking hell.

whitewineintherain Wed 01-May-13 23:15:09

If you follow the link in that article to crickett firearms there's pictures of children with guns including a baby sitting with a gun on it's lap.
I'm shock that people let children near real guns let alone use them.

Pan Wed 01-May-13 23:16:52

survival of the fittest wasn't a Darwin dictum fwiw, and even if it was are we saying that the girl just wasn't one of the fittest? merci what did you mean?

WTFisABooyhooISBooyhoo Wed 01-May-13 23:17:42


what an odd thing to say wrt this horrible incident. i wonder was it posted on the wrong thread? i hope it was.

StealthOfficialCrispTester Wed 01-May-13 23:18:10

Pan even if not striclyyn true I assume the link is to the Darwin awards

Cheddars Wed 01-May-13 23:19:55

I think Merci is referring to the stupidity of the parents buying their child a gun.

BasilBabyEater Wed 01-May-13 23:20:24

If it were any other kind of "accident", the parents would immediately be arrested for negligence, but there's no mention of that here.

And yet if you drink a glass of wine while pregnant you can be arrested in some states.

The power of the gun-lobby eh.

nancy75 Wed 01-May-13 23:20:44

I thought she meant the Darwin awards, where someone causes their own death due to something ridiculous they ave done? Hardly applies in this case

Slainte Wed 01-May-13 23:21:07

I agree with ReallyTired I think the parents should be tried for manslaughter. It wasn't a "crazy accident", they were grossly negligent.

Pan Wed 01-May-13 23:23:56

IF the manslaughter thing was at all a go-er it surely would have been live by now, not just seen as an accident. The Kentucky laws on gun care seem to by-pass this scenario. Where on earth are the parents' heads now?

mercibucket Wed 01-May-13 23:25:29

sorry, it made me think of the darwin awards, stupid parents do incredibly stupid thing, result is their offspring die, not meant in a funny or sarcastic way at all, hence sad face, genuinely awful that children die thro the stupidity of their parents

ReallyTired Wed 01-May-13 23:26:09

I suppose the parents have been punished enough for their total and utter stupidity. It will not bring back their daughter to jail them and deprive the five year old of his parents.

I would like the parents to be given a suspended jail sentence and forbidden from ever owning a gun. I don't think that will happen some how as they are in the US.

ChangeNameToday Wed 01-May-13 23:28:12

I am in the US at the moment. Last week I saw a boy, looked about 8/9, wearing a t-shirt that had "Guns, God & Country" printed on it. Yes, in that order.

WTFisABooyhooISBooyhoo Wed 01-May-13 23:30:06

yes really tired. i think lifetime ban from owning a gun for them. i dont think prison term would serve any purpose here. i think the little boy very much needs his parents and will for a very long time after to come to terms with this.

WTFisABooyhooISBooyhoo Wed 01-May-13 23:32:20

well, actually, thinking about this. the boy needs people who will get him through this and support his emotional recovery. if his parents are in any way putting blame on hin then no, they aren't the right people to be bringimg him through it. however i havent read or heard anything about what they are saying so i dont know if they are accepting full responsibility or not.

Pan Wed 01-May-13 23:32:57

yes too ReallyTired good post, there is a balance, even in this mayhem.

DonDrapersAltrEgoBigglesDraper Wed 01-May-13 23:42:10

Oh believe it. Plenty of American parents buy their children; babies even, guns...

My Dad who is an ardent (champagne) socialist and liberal has a gun-toting deep Southerner pen-friend who he's known for 50 years. He bought his children AND grandchildren (the girl and the boy) guns before they could even hold them. He even said he'd been remiss - joking, because he knows how to wind my Dad up - not buying my kids guns.

Children owning guns is so totally everyday, common-place, blasé, and un-pass-remarkable in certain parts of the US that this really will just be seen as a sad accident, and 'one of those things'. Nothing will change.

BewitchedBotheredandBewildered Wed 01-May-13 23:52:36

I actually feel sick hearing this.

How the hell do you fight it?

ArabellaBeaumaris Wed 01-May-13 23:56:11

I'm gobsmacked. Don't you need a license for a fun AT ALL? No age restrictions whatsoever?

nancy75 Wed 01-May-13 23:56:53

Don that is interesting and shocking at the same time. Why do they buy guns for tiny kids? I can't imagine the thought process behind giving a gun to a child

DonDrapersAltrEgoBigglesDraper Thu 02-May-13 00:11:51

I don't know, I just can't relate to it.

My Dad's friend hunts, and it's a big part of his social life. So this is why he has guns. Fair enough.

Buying the children - well, let's be honest; babies - guns just seems to be a rite of passage thing. They are then toting them as soon as they can walk. They are utterly part of the fabric of their lives, that they seemingly cannot and will not relate to people (especially outsiders who don't understand their way of life) who have an inherent problem with guns.

The whole 'guns don't kill people - people kill people' thing. Yes, inevitably people with guns. <eye roll>

My Dad waited to see if his friend would raise the Connecticut shooting with him (they moved from letters to email in the last few years). He eventually did, but to say that Obama was maliciously using the killing of innocent children to go back on Americans' basic right to own arms. sad He was only semi-joking.

ToomuchIsBackOnBootcamp Thu 02-May-13 00:14:22

The thought process must be "get them indoctrinated early so they keep voting to keep guns" surely?

I worry about this so much, we may have to move to the states soon. I can't think how I'd be able to ask if people keep guns in the house before I'd let my DC over to play.

What utterly foolish people.

masterchef1 Thu 02-May-13 01:02:51

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

DonDrapersAltrEgoBigglesDraper Thu 02-May-13 02:51:42

Whereabouts in the States are you maybe going, HRN?

Some States/areas are much worse than others...

CoolStoryBro Thu 02-May-13 03:02:43

It never ceases to amaze me the absolute anti-American, bullshit stupidity I read on MN.

Yeah, just because you read it on some dubious link, totes makes it true.

Texas(!) or Maryland

Is CNN good enough for you uncoolstory?

DonDrapersAltrEgoBigglesDraper Thu 02-May-13 03:24:06

It's all over the US news websites, Bro - even Fox are reporting on it.

LookingForwardToMarch Thu 02-May-13 04:22:39

Actually I'd say the 'bullshit stupidity' applies to the American parents in this case.

bootsycollins Thu 02-May-13 05:49:12

That poor little brother and sister. The guns have gotta go.

LtEveDallas Thu 02-May-13 06:01:05

Not even the first accident of this kind:

Caroline Sparks' death comes after two other incidents in recent months involving young children shooting others. In early April, a 4-year-old boy in Tennessee shot and killed a 48-year-old woman, and just days later, 6-year-old Brandon Holt was killed in New Jersey after being shot in the head by his 4-year-old playmate

There's a whole discussion on the CNN website about families having 'the gun talk' before play dates shock Can you imagine that here:

"I'd rather Thomas had water to drink as juice makes him hyper, don't worry about him gettin messy or dirty, oh and where do you keep your guns because he's still learning about safety catches"

It beggars belief.

scaevola Thu 02-May-13 06:50:41

There are several such killings every year.

I suspect this one has hit the news more widly than the others precisely because there is a gun control debate.

LtEveDallas Thu 02-May-13 06:57:58

I didn't know that Scavola sad. My SIL is in America with her husband and DNeice - I've never really thought about them having a gun before (no idea if they do or not). Guns don't bother me as much as most people in UK, but only because I am happy with the strict control and storage rules we have. Doesn't the USA have the same? Don't they have to keep them locked away then?

BinarySolo Thu 02-May-13 07:09:02

don't they have to keep them locked away

But isn't that like the dangerous dogs act wear certain breeds were banned, had to be registered etc? People just flout certain laws. The rifle in this case was kept in the corner of the room, clearly not locked away. And the parents don't appear to be being prosecuted.

Just one of those 'crazy accidents' really minimises the parents' responsibility in this. Wholly preventable.

Sirzy Thu 02-May-13 07:14:06

It's scary how a so called civilised society can be so blasé about guns that a child killing another with a gun is accepted as just one of those things.

WorrySighWorrySigh Thu 02-May-13 07:17:04

These accidents are tragic and so avoidable. The problem is not the gun but the attitudes to it.

My DS shoots a rifle at cadets and I have been with him to a gun club. These are .22 rifles in the main so the same as was used in this accident. In both the rules are very, very strict to avoid accidents.

CheerfulYank Thu 02-May-13 07:19:12

Those poor babies.

My friends bought their daughter a hot pink rifle for her 8th birthday. angry

racmun Thu 02-May-13 07:27:08

WTF a real gun for kids????

I thought it had got mixed up with his dad's or something when I read the op.
Awful awful awful on so many levels and in so many ways.

SoupDragon Thu 02-May-13 07:31:34

Truly horrendous.

The parents (or whoever was in charge of the gun) was negligent and incompetent. It was must have been loaded and not secured in a locked cabinet.

I find the grandmother's comments on the CNN page weird. "gone to a better place" and "It was her time/god's will" confused She was shot by her brother FFS!

The rules are not the same re: gun storage, no.

Which makes me very cross. There are lots of countries (i come from one) with just as high rates of gun ownership, even where children (though not that young) would also be given guns. But gun control and storage is very strict - tests to prove you understand safe use before you can have a license for example. Obviously in those countries gun deaths are vastly lower. Just introducing these kind of rules would be a massive head start in solving the problem.

As I understand it many people refuse to lock their guns away because they want easy access in case an intruder arrives.

This is the parents fault, and I would never normally say that when a child dies.

CheerfulYank Thu 02-May-13 07:39:54

Even my dumbassed redneck gun-crazed BIL keeps his guns locked away from his kids.

Those idiot parents. Makes me sick.

DesperatelySeekingSedatives Thu 02-May-13 07:46:38

I can't get my head round why the fuck anyone would have a gun just standing randomly in the corner of a room. Even without kids in the house what about intruders breaking in and using your gun as a weapon against you?!

Also "they didnt know it was loaded" makes it even worse. They didnt have the sense or brains to actually check properly.

Poor little boy. His sister too obviously but he's going to have to live with this for rest of his life and it isnt even his fault. It's his stupid parents' fault and the fucked up culture they live in.

WTFisABooyhooISBooyhoo Thu 02-May-13 12:22:53

i'm guessing that to the people who buy/design/market guns for children it must be the same kind of way people take young dcs fishing and buy them their first fishing pole. obviosuly it is entirely different but to these people that must be what they see it as? just a hobby they do with the kids from a young age?

"It's just tragic," uncle David Mann told the CNN affiliate. "It's something that you can't prepare for."

Of course you can.


everythinghippie29 Thu 02-May-13 12:41:17

Felt physically sick looking at that rifle website and its ' accessories' section. Such a sad and unnecessary incident. How could you not check that a gun was loaded and fireable if it was just left in the corner of a room where a child who had been presumably taught to fire it could have total access.

I don't like it myself, but if you wanted to teach your children to hunt/ use q gun do it when they are older and capable of understanding safety and proper use in a controlled environment, not the home. A five year old should never have access to a lethal weapon.

Poor little girl and poor boy having to grow up knowing that horrible tragedy happened because the people around him were too proud and righteous to simply keep guns out of a family home. sad

StealthOfficialCrispTester Thu 02-May-13 12:42:39

Cheerful, do you know if it is most Americans who own guns? Give their DC guns? Guessing from your comments you don't agree. Is it concentrated in certain states?

GladbagsGold Thu 02-May-13 12:48:55


My DC have shot air rifles, in a controlled, very safe environment, aged 6 and 8. Was part of a Cubs things. They enjoyed it and completely understand the importance of safety and supervision. Such a shame the same sort of common sense doesn't apply everywhere.

Poor kids.

Startail Thu 02-May-13 12:50:43

The gun control argument is pretty irrelevant here.

This wasn't an accident it was manslaughter by the girls parents.

It's plain negligence to leave a loaded gun, or 101 other dangerous objects in reach of a 5 and a 2 year old.

CheerfulYank Thu 02-May-13 13:29:24

Stealth we actually do have a gun...an unloaded hunting rifle in our (locked) garage.

Yes it does seem to be concentrated by state. I lived in a different one when I was very young and I don't remember much wrt to guns. When we moved it was to rural areas and they were everywhere, for hunting. I live in another rural community now and I'd guess the majority have them as the majority of people hunt. But they also take pride in being "responsible gun owners" so you don't ever see them. A gun standing in the corner of the room is unheard of.

My BIL, as mentioned, is a dumbass. And he has all sorts of guns and lets his 7 year old shoot them, which I would not allow. But he would never leave a gun sitting around.

My friends who got the gun for their DD are a bit worrisome. They are both vets and both have PTSD to varying degrees. They see the world as a dangerous place and want their girls to know how to defend themselves. I had let DS play over there in the past but after some comments they've made he is not allowed now because I don't trust that their weapons are locked away.

CheerfulYank Thu 02-May-13 13:34:03

I've really got no problems with guns for hunting as long as they're properly looked after. But to give them to children is madness IMO and to leave them around like this couple is beyond reprehensible. Criminal negligence for sure.

StealthOfficialCrispTester Thu 02-May-13 14:44:32

Thanks. Comments aboutbthe 7yo are scary. Ds is 6, I cannot imagine allowing him ti shoot in a year

CheerfulYank Thu 02-May-13 15:02:53

Right. I mean, my nephew isn't just running around with the guns or anything, BIL lets him shoot at targets if he's right there. But I wouldn't allow my DS to do that at 7 either.

bollockstoit Thu 02-May-13 15:17:09

It's hard to imagine the mindset of these people. I got a bit nervous because ds was carrying around a well-sharpened pencil the other day. I am probably overly anxious, but still.

Whatalotofpiffle Sun 05-May-13 23:56:39

That's awful. I can't get my head round guns being all over the place, terrifying.

The NRA are baffling me. They accuse Obama of using "tragic accidents" to open a debate about gun control for personal or political reasons.

I just can't get my head around a community where gun use/ownership is so commonplace that any attempt to control it is like saying you can't have domestic animals, or lock your own front door, or something.

But if it starts when you're an infant then no wonder I suppose sad

phantomnamechanger Mon 06-May-13 10:01:24

how unbelievably tragic the whole scenario is, and that these sort of people cannot see this is NOT just "a terrible accident" - it was negligent plain and simple. The children are too young to fully understand and in any case, the responsibility lies with the parents to supervise guns properly. That they have pretty pink girly accessories is also worrying that these things are just seen as pretty accessories rather than lethal weapons. The little girl could just as easily have shot herself or brother or her mum.
The crap about "it was her time" makes my blood boil.

Yesterday my 11yo accidently shot her bro in the eye with a foam dart from a nerf gun - they know the rules about not firing in peoples faces or close up, it was an accident while she was loading it - both were shocked and DS was hurt and cried. This sort of thing WILL happen, but no harm done in our case cos the bullet was foam!

We live in the UK and in a quiet sleepy village, but even then I have told my kids if they EVER see a gun in the bushes at the park or somewhere, they DO NOT TOUCH IT

I've just come back from a weekend in pocono mountains, in Pennsylvania. We were spending the time at an indoor water park, think Center Parcs but American stylee. There were large notices by the main entrance forbidding bringing fire arms onto the premises. The fact that there is a need for a sign telling people this beggars belief.
I will be going on a 'mothers against guns' rally this weekend. Apparently we can expect nra members to turn up and, as licencising permits it in Pennsylvania, to be wandering around carrying guns.

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