Unruly toddlers.

(32 Posts)
Manchesterhistorygirl Sun 21-Apr-13 22:53:58

If you haven't seen this the daily fail is reporting that we are now "breeding a nation of unruly ill mannered toddlers with no sense of purpose", according to Elizabeth Truss MP. Apparently they run around preschool with no sense of purpose. It would be better, today anyway, if we followed the French model where toddlers say hello to every adult who enters a room.

I'm not linking to it, but its being discussed on twitter.

What kind of society are we living in where toddlers are now the latest enemy of the Condems?

My toddler does both. Runs around like a lunatic, spins round in circles until she falls over, but also says 'hello' to everyone, and does her best to hug every baby we encounter.

rainbowslollipops Mon 22-Apr-13 06:48:14

At the age of 2 can you honestly expect them to sit down any longer than 20mins? If we're not breeding obese children we're now breeding ill mannered. I always made sure manners were used where I used to work. It's a big thing but I'm not sure if following the French will work here.

Smudging Mon 22-Apr-13 06:55:46

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

JacqueslePeacock Mon 22-Apr-13 07:07:11

It's in the Guardian too now, if you prefer not to check the DM: link here

JacqueslePeacock Mon 22-Apr-13 07:10:43

My toddler, btw, has a real sense of purpose. We have no idea what his purpose is, but he is always industriously doing something! Usually emptying and refilling cupboards.

What I can't work out is how these continued attacks on nurseries fit with the desire to get more children into daycare, increase the children:staff ratio and get more parents back in work.

exoticfruits Mon 22-Apr-13 07:13:26

I can't say that I have noticed it, when I pass nurseries where they are outside they appear to be playing purposefully.
The thing that struck me was that if she wants it like the French, with graduates in charge of the 2year olds, she will need to pay them more!

5madthings Mon 22-Apr-13 07:16:23

Ha ha ha ha. Just read the guardian link. Well that has given me a good laugh to start my day.

I can be all smug as well as my toddlers runs r

5madthings Mon 22-Apr-13 07:18:30

Ha ha ha ha. Just read the guardian link. Well that has given me a good laugh to start my day.

I can be all smug as well as my toddlers runs round like a nutter but she says please and thankyou and hello and even sorry if she bumps into somebody. She may have no sense of purpose but she us polite grin

They do have a purpose!! To make as much noise and mess as possible and to eat more non food items than the day before. What's so difficult to see about that???

colleysmill Mon 22-Apr-13 07:21:53

Am I the only poster who read the thread title and thought "football player" who had a biting incident yesterday?

cornydash Mon 22-Apr-13 07:23:09

How many French and English nurseries did she visit - has she actually tracked the future hooligans toddlers whom she observed running around aimlessly, to ensure that her findings are accurate?

No?

Oh, okay then. hmm

Exhaustipated Mon 22-Apr-13 07:23:22

Is she criticising the fashion for 'free flow' play?

Most nurseries seem to balance this with some structure. DS' nursery is free flow but there is register time, snack time, story/song time. All opportunities to learn to sit still! He usually says good morning to his teacher as he goes in too...

She seems rather uninformed about early years practises. As also evidenced by her abysmal ideas on staff ratios.

JacqueslePeacock Mon 22-Apr-13 07:43:11

Of course this is not backed up by any actual research! Just like everything else this woman has said lately.

Meglet Mon 22-Apr-13 07:50:27

DD's nursery does have structure. They have register, snack time, wash their hands before eating, quiet time after lunch etc. If I collect her while food is being eaten I'm allowed to sit at the table with them and bar one or two incidents they eat beautifully at the table unlike my house.

DharmaBums Mon 22-Apr-13 07:52:02

Ridiculous argument! No idea where she gets her ideas from. Stupid woman. Most nurseries I've visited have very structured play/activities and yes, it's noisy and the toddlers are running around...but isn't that toddlers?

cory Mon 22-Apr-13 08:48:57

Ah, it was all different in my generation. I had a firm purpose when I was two: to bite as many people as I could possibly sink my teeth into. Those were the days. Today's vapid toddlers just don't know what they're on the planet for grin

And btw why do they call French nurseries more traditional? Does the French model of treating 2yos like school children actually have more of a pedigree in Europe than other forms of childcare? It's just emotive Conservative feel-good language, isn't it?

Tanith Mon 22-Apr-13 10:26:29

I'm amazed to hear that, at long last, she has visited a nursery in this country! shock

Which one was that, I wonder?

And why no childminders?

And why has she completely ignored nannies in her "More Great Childcare" proposals? Aren't they great, too?

Spinstrel Mon 22-Apr-13 11:19:47

Isn't free play what Ofsted are meant to be encouraging childcare settings to facilitate? Aren't these nurseries doing exactly what the Early Years Framework, supported by extensive research, prescribes? This kind of uninformed comment is soooo frustrating.

MiniTheMinx Mon 22-Apr-13 11:31:47

Both of my children hated nursery, it was noisy, it was chaotic and there were lots of children running around "with no clear purpose" well I'm sure each individual had purpose but taken and observed as a whole there was no discernible purpose.

We gave up. At 2.5 yrs they both went to a small traditional nursery school attached to a private prep. It was structured, quiet, calm and the activities were teacher led. They loved it and from day one didn't want to leave at home time.

I do wonder what nursery at a very young age does to a child's emotional and social development. Certainly there seems to be more problems of social integration on starting school.

Of the experiences my DCs had in year one, the hitting and biting, kicking and screaming came from two children who had been left in day care from day one.

Floggingmolly Mon 22-Apr-13 11:36:19

One of my toddlers was declared unsuitable for a Montessori playgroup because "he won't concentrate on one activity for more than 5 minutes". hmm
He was two. I brought him to Little Kickers instead.

Kirk1 Mon 22-Apr-13 15:58:37

I wonder what purpose she thinks toddlers need? Anyone know how old her kids are? Looking at her bio I would doubt she has spent much time with toddlers herself...

pointythings Mon 22-Apr-13 18:45:15

Mini anecdote =/= evidence. The two biggest bullies in my older DD's class had SAHMs. All children are different, all parents are different. Good nurseries will not produce children who aren't socialised.

MiniTheMinx Mon 22-Apr-13 18:55:28

I agree Pointy, I am just making the case that nursery doesn't always equal well socialised children ready for school. The consensus view is that nursery is the best preparation, I am challenging this because not all nursery settings are good in the same way that not all children benefit by having a SAHP.

TheUnicornsGoHawaiian Mon 22-Apr-13 19:05:09

I'm pleased I spotted these views as I was in the process of trying to decide how to vote in the local election. This has helped my decision making massively!

Meglet same at the nursery DD goes to. It's just when she's out with us she has a tantrum over walking in the direction she just said she wanted to go in, throws her bowl on the floor, and says 'no' incessantly. grin

janey68 Mon 22-Apr-13 20:58:15

Oh her again. Spouting bullshit on anything and Everything

radicalsubstitution Tue 23-Apr-13 11:54:45

She's at it again today - something along the lines that a third of children entering primary school can't communicate properly. Apparently, it's the fault of nurseries. Does she actually know what proportion of those children actually attended a nursery, or whether or not that was just for funded hours after turning 3?

Anecdotally, the children with the worst language development at DS' school attended no Early Years education whatsoever.

I'm sure that was the fault of the nurseries as well.

Limelight Tue 23-Apr-13 17:05:09

She's on Newsnight tonight apparently.

Limelight Tue 23-Apr-13 23:26:46

Just watched. She's definitely a knob.

claig Tue 23-Apr-13 23:32:01

I like her in general, but I thought that Laura Perrins was very good and came out best. I think Laura should be in politics, she is very good.

Limelight Tue 23-Apr-13 23:35:19

She didn't once give any evidence for anything she said. What studies? What evidence? Which 1/3 of kids? Based on what? And the Prof Nutbrown thing is a killer isn't it?

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