anyone else horrified by the journalist who sedates her kids on long journeys?

(126 Posts)
Tanya86 Mon 08-Apr-13 15:50:34

i was really shocked by this. I have done many a long train journey when my son was a baby and toddler. He would cry and be noisy and want to run up and down the carriage. It would still never enter my head to sedate him and believe me the journeys were very stressful! I would be terrified and be watching every breath he took and probably end up more stressed as a result.

Many people seem to sedate their kids but it's certainly not for me!

JambalayaCodfishPie Mon 08-Apr-13 16:02:28

The word sedate, implies serious drugs, and seems to be causing the furore. It's antihistamines.

My daughter was having trouble getting to sleep last year, her dad had said some stupid things and she was scared to try and sleep. We hadn't slept in days because she was terrified.

My doctor prescribed piriton because it makes SOME kids drowsy. Not all.

She had one small dose, fell asleep, and after that she was fine. The rest of the bottle is in the cupboard, untouched.

So yeah, I drugged my kid.

The person who wrote that article was talking about epic 28hr flights, not a trip down the road. And if a child is distressed, I don't see the harm.

However, I guess it's then a slippy slope to drugging them whenever you need a break. That's not ok.

lljkk Mon 08-Apr-13 16:03:33

Linky?
I think I tried it once and the kids just went manic on the aeroplane anyway. So kind of not encouraged to try again.

Sanctimumious Mon 08-Apr-13 16:04:33

No. Not horrified at all. Lots of medications have a sedative effect.

I have given my son anti-histimine drops. In fact, I gave my son an extra drop for good luck.

Shoot me.

Coconutty Mon 08-Apr-13 16:06:13

I think this journo is full of shit tbh and would say anything for a few quid.

Tanya86 Mon 08-Apr-13 16:09:34

Being prescribed it from a doctor is one thing but i find it wrong to make your child sleep just so you have an easier journey. If as a mother you decide to take small children on a 28 hour flight (madness in my view) then you make sure you have plenty to amuse the kids.

You are right in what you say about it being a slippy slope. I had no idea piriton could have such an effect on kids and now it's made common knowledge, you may well get parents dosing their kids just to shut them up at night.

Each to their own as parenting doesn't come with a hand book. Interesting topic.

Not horrified at all.

I had Promethazine for sickness in my last pregnancy and I am sure it actually said that this is one of the things it was prescribed for.

It's an anti-emetic! Less harmful than a dose of Calpol.

Piriton or similar would work well too.

"Horrified"- no.

SoupDragon Mon 08-Apr-13 16:11:43

Welcome to MN, Tanya smile

I would say that a large number of parents have sedated their children with Piriton/Medised/Phenergen for long journeys.

DXBMermaid Mon 08-Apr-13 16:14:31

I am not shocked either. The first time my Mum did a long-haul flight with two small children, she did the same. We were all emtional, tired and unsettled and it was the first time she travelled alone on a plane with her children. Nothing serious, just something mild to make us sleep. I would contemplate it as well in certain situations.

Tanya86 Mon 08-Apr-13 16:15:31

Thanks SoupDragon smile

AmberLeaf Mon 08-Apr-13 16:16:21

What coconutty said.

Shona Sibary. Always got something to say about nothing.

Re 'drugging' your children, its probably antihistimine.

Phenergan used to be the drug of choice for that sort of thing. its an antihistimine and not harmful.

You used to be able to buy it in syrup form that could be given to children, my Mum tried to buy some in boots a few years back when she had my Son staying with her, he is allergic to her cats and got itchy welts on his back. She was unsuccessful! she said the chemist asked her lots of questions and refused to sell it to her.

Just because it's antihistamine, doesn't make it right!

Sanctimumious Mon 08-Apr-13 16:17:44

lljkk, yeah when i gaVE it to my son I didn't know if it would make him giddy or drowsy. It can go either way!

Tanya86, exactly, parenting doesn't come with one handbook, there are hundreds, and it is your own benchmark there to deem it ok, different, 'acceptable' if the drugs are prescribed by a doctor. In fact though, that's a meaningless benchmark because a doctor will prescribe them if you ask.

Now that my children are old enough to sit down on a long train journey I would have little patience for parents who are determined not to 'drug' their children even though their children are 'running up and down the carriage and making lots of noise'. Argh, drug them, please!

lljkk Mon 08-Apr-13 16:18:18

I sedate myself, if possible. Having tried loads of things, the best travel tactic I have is to drink champagne so that I can actually doze off, even if it's only 20-30 minutes. It makes a huge difference to helping me get over jet lag quicker at other end if I can do that. I don't sleep on planes otherwise.

So even a small sleep for small children travelling far, I expect has same benefits. Did the journo say her DC slept the whole 28 hrs?

sassytheFIRST Mon 08-Apr-13 16:18:26

This journalist wrote that she would be happy for strangers to smack her kids the other day. Also that she punches above her weight wrt to her husband. Also that she doesn't like sex.

She's just a fiction writer, coming up with new plots all the time.

thefirstmrsrochester Mon 08-Apr-13 16:21:23

It used to be part of my journey plan to dole out the piriton to the dc. For the benefit of them as much as myself and other travellers. Moons ago my sisters nurse friend used to pinch pre-med from the hospital and consume before take-off. Now, thats 'drugging up'.

DXBMermaid Mon 08-Apr-13 16:24:12

I am not shocked either. The first time my Mum did a long-haul flight with two small children, she did the same. We were all emtional, tired and unsettled and it was the first time she travelled alone on a plane with her children. Nothing serious, just something mild to make us sleep. I would contemplate it as well in certain situations.

Sanctimumious Mon 08-Apr-13 16:24:19

ah, and she's trawling through old threads on mumsnet for inspo

i've been told on an old thread here that it was child abuse to sedate your child. Taht sort of over reaction and lack of any discretion at all makes me laugh though. Never heard of her though. (luckily??)

I like your champagne idea lljkk. i'd give the toddler a bucks fizz though. cos i'm not irresponsible wink

Tanya86 Mon 08-Apr-13 16:25:10

well Sanctimumious lets hope you never come across me on a train because i won't sedate my children for anyone. Anti histimine or not. Kinda hypocritical that now your kids are old enough to sit on the train you can't be bothered with other peoples. That's the joys of public transport i'm afraid.

stargirl1701 Mon 08-Apr-13 16:25:11

I sedate myself on long journeys (pre DD). When I flew to NZ I took a sleeping tablet on the second 12 hour flight.

If it's good enough for me...

Was she the one on This Morning earlier. they were having a ding dong about it.

Tanya86 Mon 08-Apr-13 16:27:57

yeah sparklingbrook that's the one

Sanctimumious Mon 08-Apr-13 16:29:39

What's hypocrital about not bothering with other people's children now my own are older????????

Am I obliged to put up with your children? I sedated my children on long journeys, and now you want me to ... what, precisely? What on earth have I done or said that is hypocritical? Do you know what that word means?

Viviennemary Mon 08-Apr-13 16:32:41

Well it sounds as if the other people in the carriage probably did need sedating. grin

Tanya86 Mon 08-Apr-13 16:35:00

If you chose to travel on public transport then yes you are very much obliged to put up with my children.

Ah so you sedated yours to keep them quiet. Nice

If you chose to travel on a bus, train or aeroplane then you have to expect certain things. Noisy children are one of those things.

5eggstremelychocaletymadeggs Mon 08-Apr-13 16:35:29

Well she also wrote an article about how she smacks her childrrn and proudly described how she slapped het 14yr old.

She isnt someone i would look to for parenting advice...

If I did not use an antihistimine for my autistic child we would not be able to travel anywhere, by car or plane, that takes longer than an hour.

ivykaty44 Mon 08-Apr-13 16:40:53

Tanya - to you getting on a 28 hour flight may seem madness - but to others who want to see their family (possibly their family 28 hours away are unable to travel on planes) may be what they need to do to see them.

Tanya86 Mon 08-Apr-13 16:43:41

the dudesmummy - that is different. it seems you are not sedating him because you can't be bothered to deal with him acting out and being naughty, but because he becomes distressed in long journeys. At the end of the day it's just my opinion on the matter. I just believe that sedating a child to prevent them being naughty and noisy due to boredom is wrong. If they have a condition that means you have to sedate them then that's different.

AmberLeaf Mon 08-Apr-13 16:49:56

Just because it's antihistamine, doesn't make it right!

Actually, if you look at the packaging on a bottle of phenergan it lists 'occasional sedation' as one of its uses.

Gorjuss Mon 08-Apr-13 16:50:24

I would never dream of giving my children anything it constantly amazes me how much calpol other friends go through. Sometimes the thought of a journey is far worse than actually doing it.

AmberLeaf Mon 08-Apr-13 16:54:32

Phenergan

What is it used for?

Allergic conditions such as hay fever (allergic rhinitis) and nettle rash (urticaria).
Life threatening allergic reactions (anaphylaxis).
Preventing travel sickness.
Sedation before surgery (preoperative sedation).
Short-term use as a sedative in children
Short-term treatment of sleeping difficulties (insomnia) in adults.

Read more: www.netdoctor.co.uk/allergy-and-asthma/medicines/phenergan.html#ixzz2Pt6Lkfx4

Well Tanya, thanks for that, I see it that way. He is not naughty at all, quite the opposite. But he just does not understand, for example, that he is not allowed to get up and run around a plane and nose around in people's bags, and there is no way of explaining it to him. Or that he has to come and sit down when the seatbelt sign is on. The antihistimine also acts as an antiemetic, which in his case is also important!

Coconutty Mon 08-Apr-13 16:56:28

I was prescribed Phenergan by the hospital sleep clinic when DS1 couldn't sleep for more than 2 hours in one go.

He had it a couple of times and it broke the habit of him waking up. Magic.

tethersend Mon 08-Apr-13 17:01:58

Half horrified, half wondering what she used and in what quantity.

Tanya86 Mon 08-Apr-13 17:02:33

the dudesmummy - yeah i know where you are coming from. My brother is autistic and people see a physically normal looking child and assume they are just naughty. My mum found it frustrating at how ignorant people were.

clam Mon 08-Apr-13 17:06:59

Shona Sibury! Isn't she also the journo who was whingeing recently about being poor on £100Kpa? And who sold her house and now can't get back on the housing ladder? And a fair few other pointless ramblings articles?

lemonmuffin Mon 08-Apr-13 17:54:31

She's seen what Liz Jones and Samantha Brick are earning out of being all controversial and she wants some of it.

Don't rise to it.

DioneTheDiabolist Mon 08-Apr-13 18:01:21

You actually can sedate your children?shock. Why am I only discovering this now?

(rushes off to tell Dsis who is taking little psycho DNeice on holiday this week.)

orangeandlemons Mon 08-Apr-13 18:04:02

Well if you have to give your dc travel sickness meds, then you are sedating them anyway. We have to give them to dd as she will be sick everywhere if we don't.

The sedatives side effect does make for a calm and peaceful journey

SophiaTheFirst Mon 08-Apr-13 18:04:49

I have used Phenegan, on the advice of my GP, to help my DC cope with jetlag when travelling longhaul, it works very well.

I only use it once we have arrived safely at our destination to get them over the jetlag, never on the plane, and I don't feel any concern about our use of it.

Also I don't care what others think, we are happy, our doctor is happy.

And for those who think that it is madness to travel longhaul with preschoolers, we do it because we don't live on the same continent as our family.

SophiaTheFirst Mon 08-Apr-13 18:05:32

Phenergan not Phenegan

Longdistance Mon 08-Apr-13 18:08:30

Oh I must be shit mummy then. I used Phenergan with my dd traveling to the Uk from Oz when I was on my own.
Magic stuff though.
<runs>

Longdistance Mon 08-Apr-13 18:09:33

X post with Sofia.

TumbleWeeds Mon 08-Apr-13 18:18:09

I thought about it when the dcs were little. I have never done it also felt I was using the medication for an entirely different reason than the one intended. And it didn't sit right with me.

I can see how this could help oblong journey and for the jet lag. What I am more dubious is what people mean by long journey and public transport.
I wouldn't use that on a train. I think you can entertain your dcs on a 3~4 hour journey. I wouldn't do it in a car. You can choose your breaks. But on a 24 hour plane trip... Yes I can understand.

Fwiw I remember asking MN at the time, about 7 years ago, and the response was unanimous. How can you think about drugging your dcs for your own convenience. Interesting to see how things change.

lemonmuffin Mon 08-Apr-13 18:20:03

Can you still get phenergan these days, I thought it had been banned.

My mum used to take it when my brother was away travelling, it was the only way she could get to sleep at night apparently!

Would love to know what was in it.

AmberLeaf Mon 08-Apr-13 18:26:26

lemon its just an antihistimine.

my post upthread links to a web page about it.

Tumbleweed, it isn't using it for an entirely different reason than intended, one of its uses is sedation.

lemonmuffin Mon 08-Apr-13 18:29:31

Thanks Amber. <off to check it out>

SophiaTheFirst Mon 08-Apr-13 18:46:26

"Fwiw I remember asking MN at the time, about 7 years ago, and the response was unanimous. How can you think about drugging your dcs for your own convenience. Interesting to see how things change"

Tumbleweeds It isn't something that has universal approval now and was frowned on before. I doubt it happens more now than it used to, it isn't as if 7 years ago mothers didn't do it, it has been used as a sedative for years.

FWIW I think Phenergan in particular is being used more now because 5-10 years ago mothers could buy Medised over the counter for the same effect but that has now been restricted (discontinued??) because it was infamous for being used as a sedative rather than as an infant cold medication.

Using a medication to sedate your child is certainly nothing new, times haven't changed.

Pollydon Mon 08-Apr-13 18:58:16

I wish the parents sat behind us on the 5 1/2 hr flight to Cyprus had used it, my poor dd had the back of her seat kicked the whole way angry

SophiaTheFirst Mon 08-Apr-13 18:59:48

See here for MN thread on Medised back from the good'ole days of 2004, nothing has changed at all.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/sleep/39995-long-haul-travel-for-8month-baby

Some people do it, some people would never do it, some people are appalled that others do it, some people could't give a shit what others do. Same as it ever was.

expatinscotland Mon 08-Apr-13 19:02:25

No. Long train journeys are not the same as long-haul flights. It's Piriton, not crack.

conorsrockers Mon 08-Apr-13 19:07:23

God bless Mediced grin

TSSDNCOP Mon 08-Apr-13 19:08:20

Yep I've done it on flights, happy humans all round.

Therefore it wouldn't have been me behind you Polly

<considerate>

And no, I really don't think the paying public need to be subject to fractious OTT kids whilst they're trapped on public transport.

SatsukiKusukabe Mon 08-Apr-13 19:08:44

genuine question. I was told sedating my cat was incredibly dangerous on a flight. Are there no risks for children?

TSSDNCOP Mon 08-Apr-13 19:10:00

sats I think that is because of the cold in the hold. Kids don't travel in the hold mores the pity.

SatsukiKusukabe Mon 08-Apr-13 19:12:33

I was traveling with cat in the plane, and was warned not to do it by bet and airlines won't let you bring a sedated animal on either. But could be a misunderstanding

SophiaTheFirst Mon 08-Apr-13 19:13:14

Satsuki Not sure actually, though my GP was fine for us to use it on a plane. Actually I have only used it whilst abroad, rather than actually on a plane.

Personally, I don't like the idea that in the event of an on-board emergency I wouldn't be able to rouse my DC (not that it knocks them out that much anyway) so we just entertain them on the plane as best we can and as they are experienced flyers at 2 and 4yrs they are pretty good, they are just used to it, never known any different.

SatsukiKusukabe Mon 08-Apr-13 19:13:53

I thought it was to do with pressure

SophiaTheFirst Mon 08-Apr-13 19:18:09

Love the Toroto name by the way ;-)

bigkidsdidit Mon 08-Apr-13 19:25:01

I work in a hospital (am not a medic) and the doctors were universally aghast at the idea of this when we discussed it. Which would put me off.

People saying 'it's just anti-histamine' - they are still drugs! Would you give your small child antibiotics without asking a doctor?

tilder Mon 08-Apr-13 19:25:25

It isn't a sedative inthe way anesthetic is, it just makes some people sleepy. if you have the kind of child that benefits from this, it means that they and everyone is more likely to cope with a long flight.

It isn't (or shouldn't) be for convenience or because you can't be bothered, it is a way of helping children cope with a long time in a small space, which may include night time.

Letting children who know better run around, kicking things, shouting etc whatever the transport is antisocial. I don't see why anyone has to accept that behaviour on public transport.

I have no idea who the journo is, she sounds lovely if comments on here are anything to go by hmm

AmberLeaf Mon 08-Apr-13 19:32:59

People saying 'it's just anti-histamine' - they are still drugs! Would you give your small child antibiotics without asking a doctor?

What?

Sedation is a legitimate use for antihistimine.

Antibiotics have to be prescribed, antihistimines don't

SophiaTheFirst Mon 08-Apr-13 19:36:12

Tilder* The journo is a writer who brings out articles designed to shock and divide, her articles usually make for tiresome reading. Example are:

So she has done articles on smacking her children, up to age 14
How she would prefer to starve than let her DC go to a state school
Not being able to manage without her Au Pairs and live in housekeepers
Being skint on 100K
Needing to keep child benefit on 100K
Secretly reading her DHs emails

Sanctimumious Mon 08-Apr-13 19:38:22

Tanya86, you have no cohesive criticism of me here at all. First you ask people if they're "horrified" other people sedate their children on long journeys. I say, no, that doesn't horrify me and I've done it.

Then you call me a hypocrite because I don't relish listening to other people's young kids on long journeys. Well who does? who enjoys that?

If my own parenting style aimed to spare others the worst of the irriation of listening to my toddlers whine , wriggle and shriek for 6 hours, then I'm hardly going to enjoy listening to somebody else's ruin a long journey for everybody else. I wouldn't say anything, but my heart sinks. That's not hypocritical. It is entirely consistent with my parenting surely?

TSSDNCOP Mon 08-Apr-13 19:38:37

I'd like to categorically state that every other thing on the Journos list is what I HAVEN'T done grin

Pollydon Mon 08-Apr-13 19:42:07

Its antihystamine, not Rohypnol !! Cold remedy does the same to me ( conked out on the couch last night )

Tanya86 Mon 08-Apr-13 19:49:19

nobody enjoys listening to children cry but hell will freeze over before i sedate my kids to please other people.

Pollydon Mon 08-Apr-13 19:52:26

Ok Tanya, thats your opinion, others differ.

lisad123everybodydancenow Mon 08-Apr-13 19:54:05

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Sanctimumious Mon 08-Apr-13 19:58:46

Lovely. As you say yourself.

SophiaTheFirst Mon 08-Apr-13 19:59:43

To be fair Tanya, in your OP you were talking about taking your DC on a long train journey, it really isn't the same as long haul travel.

On a train you can get up and move around, walk down to another carriage, stretch your legs, watch the world go by out of the window, you can walk down to the buffet car to get a snack, they can sit on their seat, your seat, you can change seats if others are free, you might have a table to play a game on, all sorts.

On a plane it really isn't the same, for example, the seatbelt sign comes on and you can't get up or even move child from their seat to your lap. On our last longhaul flight the seat belt sign was on for hours at a time due to severe turbulence. I didn't medicate my DC because they are very good flyers but I don't judge those that do, it isn't any of my business.

Also, I don't think most who do medicate do it to please other people, most do it because it is better for them and they feel it is better for their child. I don't think many do it for the sake of the person in the row in front!

Squarepebbles Mon 08-Apr-13 20:01:14

My parents used to sedate me with the proper heaving duty stuff when flying to the Far East (60s).

Even better,they let some doctor they'd never met give me something on one particular flight I was reeking havoc on.shock

Worked a treat until they were delayed and they had to contend with my rubber legs in departures.grin

Can't even remember it.

Depends how desperate I was I guess as to whether I'd do it myself,the thing is with 3 I'd need them to be walking when disembarking.grin

PanpiperAtTheGatesOfYawn Mon 08-Apr-13 20:02:46

I read the title of this thread and thought, 'I bet that feature was written by Shona Sibary' I have just won myself an imaginary £5 grin

She is the mother/wife version of bitter, mad old Liz Jones, a DM troll who is paid a lot of money to generate website hits.

I met a man on a plane once (as our undrugged 18 mo ran around and exhausted us) who was standing by his sleeping kids. He freely and happily admitted to giving them antihistamine, particularly on flights to NZ - 18-plus hour flights, which he undertook by himself with his two young children to visit his rellies.

I was a bit horrified at the time but now think that it was probably kinder to the children to drug them to sleep on a flight that long. It's not for me but I totally get it.

nilbyname Mon 08-Apr-13 20:03:25

tanya I have sedated my kids to please myself and them. HTH. I can count on one hand the times that I have done it, but by god we all needed it.

its piriton not crack Amen!

Sanctimumious Mon 08-Apr-13 20:03:50

yes, Sophia, as you distinguish, I do too, I did it on a plane. Not on the 67 bus ykwim?

I did it on the way home from Fuerteventura, partly because of the number of filthy looks other passengers gave me, and partly because it was just an exhausting experience for me, my son was clearly not happy, the other passengers were miserable. Journey home was so much easier. No regrets.

ClaraOswinOswald Mon 08-Apr-13 20:03:58

I have never sedated my children and am against the use of any drugs for convenience. The 'journalist' admitted to giving her son more than the recommended amount and being unable to wake him on arrival. Could a child die that way?

Also, can you take liquids through airport security now?

Sanctimumious Mon 08-Apr-13 20:05:15

Yes, Amen + 2 !

TCOB Mon 08-Apr-13 20:08:00

Just another tack by the Daily Fascist to get their circulation up. Sadly I'm sure it's working.

roundtower Mon 08-Apr-13 20:09:09

My dd was prescribed Phenergan for sleep problems due to itchy eczema and it had no effect on her at all.

I was given the same drug when I was in hospital with hyperemesis and it knocked me out!

SophiaTheFirst Mon 08-Apr-13 20:09:43

Clara Yes you can take medicines through security if you have a prescription for them or if they are in a bottle of less than 100ml.

I always take medicine with us as we have prescribed medicines that we have to carry at all times, including on flights. They see the bottle, I try to take a new, unopened one, and the prescription and once I have been asked to taste a little and I had to open the bottle to do so.

I have no idea if you can travel with liquid antihistamine, in a bottle bigger than 100ml withotu a prescription or not though.

SophiaTheFirst Mon 08-Apr-13 20:11:32

Still laughing at the idea of using Phenergan on the number 67 bus grin

PanpiperAtTheGatesOfYawn Mon 08-Apr-13 20:15:32

sophia Sounds like a song title - like "Brimful Of Asha on the forty five" grin

SophiaTheFirst Mon 08-Apr-13 20:23:15

Spoonful of Phenergan on the sixty seven.... it sounds quite catchy!

I can honestly say I have never heard of anyone in RL (not sure if anyone on here, haven't read every post on the thread) using Phenergan on a train or a bus. My impression, could be wrong, is that the OP hasn't done longhaul travel with her DC.

I haven't used Phenergan on a plane but having done long, long haul with two preschoolers in tow I wouldn't judge anyone who chose to do so. Its about making your own choices and accepting that others might make a different decision to yours, no two situations are the same and what is the right decision for your and your family might be wrong for another.

Also, on the plane how could you know which parents are giving prescribed Phenergan to their DC and who have just bought it over the counter? Presumably, people are less judgy if it was doctor prescribed? Or is it a blanket disapproval?

BangOn Mon 08-Apr-13 20:25:12

i wouldn't feel comfortable giving my kids medicine they didn't need, for a purpose it wasn't intended for, & without their consent. tired children fall asleep on long journeys anyway when the time is right ime.

PollyEthelEileen Mon 08-Apr-13 20:28:18

This thread is why I always travel first class.

SophiaTheFirst Mon 08-Apr-13 20:30:42

It is one of its intended purposes though. It is used to treat allergic conditions, as a temporary, mild sedative for children and is also used to treat travel sickness.

SophiaTheFirst Mon 08-Apr-13 20:31:31

grin Polly

AmberLeaf Mon 08-Apr-13 20:34:41

i wouldn't feel comfortable giving my kids medicine they didn't need, for a purpose it wasn't intended for, & without their consent

Again, sedation is a legitimate use for such medicines, it even says so on the packaging

...and er, consent? do you ask your child for his/her consent when you give them medicine then?

Sanctimumious Mon 08-Apr-13 20:38:15

Astonishingly, children are allowed in first class!

PollyEthelEileen Mon 08-Apr-13 20:54:49

Children, mine included, are allowed in first class, but they don't run up and down the carriage, even when not sedated.

PanpiperAtTheGatesOfYawn Mon 08-Apr-13 20:59:18

Nor do mine, Polly. They're drunk on free champagne.

PollyEthelEileen Mon 08-Apr-13 21:00:27

You get free champagne? I have to rustle mine in in a brown paper bag sad

elfycat Mon 08-Apr-13 21:07:40

I now understand why DD1 gets to sleep so well...

She's a magnet for anything that bites and likes O Pos. Some nights she comes to my room wriggling, I've counted up to 30 bites and sighed over the long night ahead.

A dose of calpol and piriton later I have a good night. I gave the medication because she needed it, but it turns out I needed her to have it too!

(but I won't take advantage of this new knowledge)

Sanctimumious Tue 09-Apr-13 00:18:35

grin

bottoms up kids

HappyMummyOfOne Tue 09-Apr-13 09:28:04

"I would never dream of giving my children anything it constantly amazes me how much calpol other friends go through. Sometimes the thought of a journey is far worse than actually doing it"

Agree totally, theres no way i would sedate DS unless he was ill and the doctor prescribed.

My calpol always expires date wise before its anywhere near used up. Friends get through gallons of the stuff despite no more illnesses that most children get.

As for Medised, i had never heard of it before MN but am shicked at how many people use it as a sedative for children and at how many moaned when they withdrew it and changed the age limit.

Surely it depends on the child, too? I could be utterly smug and say I've never dosed mine for the sedative effect, but she's a reasonably quiet child who enjoys sticker books and being a grown-up on an airplane chair. I take absolutely no credit for that, and if she was like some of her cousins or friends, I would have no hesitation in giving her half a spoon of antihistamine to bring her down off the inevitable overexcited rampage in an airplane cabin. Seeing as no one shouted at us as unfit parents for dosing her on the selfsame stuff at much higher doses for her viral rash, her chickenpox, her eczema...

blueshoes Tue 09-Apr-13 10:42:08

Cannot get excited. Lots of adults self-sedate with alcohol on long flights

squeaver Tue 09-Apr-13 10:50:24

Gah, you lot don't know you're born - my mother used to give us all half a valium on Christmas Eve.,

Sanctimumious Tue 09-Apr-13 15:09:18

ha ha! good idea. you still got some?

I was thinking as well, how my granddad used to drive us to cork and back, smoking his pipe as he drove, and if we opened the window he'd say he was cold!

Pixel Tue 09-Apr-13 15:15:23

Makes a bit of a mockery of the old 'what to do in the event of a crash' talk with all these people dosed up to the eyeballs on drugs and booze. Suppose if the the plane is going down you are probably better off not knowing...If I was going to snuff it I'd quite like to be off my head on champagne grin.

Wow! though, I'm genuinely surprised at this. I had no idea so many people were sedating their children for the sake of a quiet life. I wonder if it goes some way to explaining the amount of children who apparently have never learned how to behave with consideration for those around them, or to sit for any length of time without demanding entertainment/food. After all, patience has to be learned and you can't do that if you're asleep.
Personally I'd make allowances for a baby or toddler being restless on a journey, I wouldn't be so tolerant of an eight year old kicking me in the back, so at what age do people generally stop sedating? And are they just making the situation worse in the long run?

TumbleWeeds Tue 09-Apr-13 19:24:24

Fully agree with Pixel.

I can't talk about Piriton. Only used it once for a bad case of chicken pox and even then I felt bad about it (not prescribed by doctor and I remember I had to give a 'false' explanation to the chemist to get it. Can't evenrber what it was ....
I am surprised about the fact it is supposed to brushed for sedation though. It is an anti histamine so it's role is to calm the itching. A side effect is being drowsy but I would doubt it is being sold to keep children quiet on an airplane

EugenesAxe Tue 09-Apr-13 19:27:45

No... it's de rigeur for a lot of people on longhaul flights.

I have a travel sickness medicine for DS that has 'to use as a sedative' instructions on the side...

Yellowtip Tue 09-Apr-13 19:31:51

Another couple at Army Staff College used to regularly mix milk with Calpol (a big, big glug of Calpol) every night to calm their DD2 down. We were having supper with them one night and they showed us the mix.

And lots and lots of parents there used to leave their DC (babies) alone with just a baby monitor when they went out for supper. Until an edict came down from the bloke in command, who'd got wind of the practice, which he denounced as unsafe.

Yellowtip Tue 09-Apr-13 19:33:20

Baby monitors obviously not relevant to the thread.

ubik Tue 09-Apr-13 19:42:59

I use travel sickness meds for my kids which also cause drowsiness - wish I had used them yesterday on the train when DD1was sick x3 dd2was sick x2 and DD3 then decided to roll in the sick. Sigh.

AmberLeaf Tue 09-Apr-13 19:44:10

For Tumbleweeds

Phenergan

What is it used for?

Allergic conditions such as hay fever (allergic rhinitis) and nettle rash (urticaria).
Life threatening allergic reactions (anaphylaxis).
Preventing travel sickness.
Sedation before surgery (preoperative sedation).
Short-term use as a sedative in children
Short-term treatment of sleeping difficulties (insomnia) in adults.

Read more: www.netdoctor.co.uk/allergy-and-asthma/medicines/phenergan.html#ixzz2Pt6Lkfx4

ubik Tue 09-Apr-13 20:00:06

I use phenergan after nightshift, it can knock me out for a good 12 hours.

shufflehopstep Wed 10-Apr-13 22:03:16

I saw something about this a few days ago and started a thread but it didn't go anywhere (don't think I'm in with the clique yet as not much of a poster until recently, more of a lurker). I'm pretty shocked too although I'm the other extreme. Apart from in hospital when she was born and her routine jabs, the only medication my 11 month old has ever been given is Calpol - twice in her life. We went on holiday a few months back and it was two long haul flights there and back. It never even occurred to me to sedate her, even though the first leg of the journey was six hours of hell. I personally don't think it can be right to give a child medication deliberately for its side effects.confused This is the article I read about it.

SaggyOldClothCatPuss Wed 10-Apr-13 22:07:57

Phenergan the sedative of choice for long journeys in the 90s! grin

ClaraOswinOswald Wed 10-Apr-13 22:10:08

Interesting article- the writer is far more sensible than the DM woman, who is clearly nuts, sedation or not.
smile

katrinefonsmark Wed 10-Apr-13 22:19:31

I don't believe anything she writes although the bit about her delightful son continually kicking the seat in front sounds probable.

theQuibbler Thu 11-Apr-13 15:03:38

Phenergan and other sedatives along those lines, such as medised, were withdrawn for use for younger children (under 2) because of the risk of infant death and severe breathing difficulties. Caution should be used with older children as well.

Obviously, you decide what risk you want to take, but it's not a case that it is an entirely harmless practice, without any consequences, to sedate young children.

The safety alerts were issued by FDA (USA) and MHRA (UK) for reference.

AmberLeaf Thu 11-Apr-13 16:16:21

Phenergan has always had a warning that it shouldn't be used on under twos or asthmatics.

Phenergan is the only reason we can have a holiday at all.

Ps autistic child, over two. Mother a doctor, carefully calculated and trialled dosage. No qualms at all.

lydiamama Thu 11-Apr-13 23:03:18

I will never would give a medicine to my child because it suits me, just if she needs it, for illness or if she cannot sleep or is anxious, and always in agreement with a doctor. I am guilty, nevertheless, of putting some cartoons on or letting her draw on my mobile if I need some peace and quiet, we used to take all the technology we own in the airplane to entertain her, and it worked, it is not ideal but it is safer than medication to me

ubik Fri 12-Apr-13 12:05:16

Well am on the train again today, thus time kids dosed with joyrides tablets - DD1 is asleep, DD2 quietly listening to Cd, DD3 dropping off too. Much better than the vomit- fest on the trip down.

boxershorts Sat 13-Apr-13 11:21:27

who is the writer

tobagoisland Sat 13-Apr-13 13:03:41

In answer to the initial question - no I'm not. Until the youngest of my three children was six we holidayed in the UK, thus not imposing a long constrictive journey on them, nor imposing them on a plane load of passengers! There is nothing worse on a long haul flight (for which you might have been saving and indeed dreaming of over several years), than being forced to endure crying babies, screaming toddlers and children intent on giving your seat a full 'test drive' if you are unfortunate enough to be seated in front of them! Apropos of this, TripAdvisor recently conducted a survey on whether people would pay more to travel on 'adult only' flights and the answer was a resounding 'yes'. Sadly, at the moment, the environs of business class may offer sanctuary, but only to those who have the wherewithal for an upgrade!

nooka Sun 14-Apr-13 07:10:48

I remember some cold medicine that we used when ds was tiny (and had nasty colds that really bothered him as a thumb sucker) having the side effect of making him very sleepy. Never used it for that purpose, but I remember trying it once with dd (who was terrible at going to sleep, hours of jiggling and crying involved) and it making her completely hyper.

One of our baby friends (antenatal group) regularly dosed her baby up in the evenings which did seem very concerning because of the regularity. On the other hand my sister was prescribed a sedative for her toddler when they flew to Australia. As a one off I don't really have a problem with that, hopefully it made the journey and jet lag easier for her dd.

LtEveDallas Sun 14-Apr-13 07:19:04

I remember dosing myself up with Night Nurse tablets before my first ever long haul flight. Oh my God what a mistake that was, if never felt so sick, dizzy and out of sorts. It was awful and it took at least 24 hours to go back to feeling normal again.

For that reason I wouldn't dose up the incredible-non-sleeping DD, in case she has the same rotten time of it that I did.

LondonJax Sun 14-Apr-13 10:04:06

Sorry, don't often post on here but I saw this thread and hope you don't mind me gatecrashing.

Maybe we're just lucky but we've been flying with our son (who's almost 6 years old now) since he was 6 weeks old. DH's family live in Scotland, we're based in London so flying was the quickest option. He's flown 3 -4 times a year to Scotland alone. The only time we've had a problem was when he was teething and the ear pressure got too much. We've been lucky enough to go to Austria, Lanzarote, Italy and Spain during that time too.

We time our flights to coincide with his sleep time whenever we can. We take a bag on board just for him and fill it with books, toys (like small cars, nothing noisy as it'd drive me insane!) and food and we never take everything out at once. One of us will walk him up the aisle a couple of times and before the flight we walk or run him around the airport to let him let off steam. You'll sometimes literally see one of us running the little fella up and down in the airport lounge! Seems to get it out of his system!

When he was almost four years old we inherited a little cash and used it on a once in a lifetime holiday (before he started school and we were limited to school holiday times). We went to Hawaii (a 13 hour flight), Australia and New Zealand for a total of 6 weeks. He had to fly from London to Los Angeles, next day to Hawaii. A week later off to Australia (via New Zealand), then after five days, back to New Zealand for the remainder of the holiday. Then the 27 hours home (stop off for a couple of hours in Hong Kong airport). We spent almost as much time getting the right timing on flights as we did on the holiday itself - again trying to get local time evening flights when we knew he'd sleep (though the Los Angeles flight saw him awake for 20 hours!)

He discovered the kids channel on the TV (hooray) so we had an hour or two's peace every so often.

The people behind us stopped me as we were getting off the 27 hour flight home and my heart sank. "Your boy was better behaved than some of the adults" said the woman. I felt so proud!

The point is, as he's never been given anything and we've worked out what works for him because he's been his usual self not sedated in any way. He now sees plane travel just like any other form of transport. He understands how he should behave because we've taught him and he's been awake enough to take it on board. If you give sedatives to your kids, at what stage do you test the water to see if they can behave? At what stage do they learn? It's like saying I won't take my kids out for a meal until they're older. They'll still won't understand the 'rules' about eating out because they've never experienced it. Sometimes you have to bite the bullet. You won't get it right first time but you soon learn what works for you and, more importantly, for the kids.

By the way, to add to the mix, we were in the centre of Christchurch on our last day of holiday in New Zealand when the earthquake struck. We ran our boy through the streets with glass showering on us and cracks opening in the pavement near us. All night we had aftershocks (every 40-60 minutes) and the airport had damage to ceilings, had people being flown home by the Red Cross so were 'walking wounded' and in shock and the airport had aftershocks too. We were all holding our breath as the plane took off in case another quake struck as we were taxi-ing. And still our boy didn't howl about the plane, run up and down or kick the back of the chair in front. He knows the rules, they make him feel safe so we stuck to them even after all that and it helped him settle. Make the rules and stick to them, no concessions, no changes and the child knows what is expected and, more importantly, what to expect.

LondonJax Sun 14-Apr-13 10:09:32

Sorry, that last bit came over a bit like teaching granny to suck eggs! What I meant was, it's always in our head to make the rules and stick to them etc and it works for us.

MajaBiene Sun 14-Apr-13 10:17:36

My parents used to drug us with phenergan on 12 hour car journeys back in the late 80s/early 90s.

I always drug ds for any journey over about 30 minutes as otherwise he vomits everywhere. Sadly it doesn't seem to have a sedative effect on him.

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