Phillpots trial is anybody following it?

(174 Posts)
Minimammoth Thu 14-Mar-13 18:51:30

I am shock.

Svrider Thu 14-Mar-13 18:52:11

Yes sad

JakeBullet Thu 14-Mar-13 18:54:07

Very sad....what odd lives they led. Feel the women were victims of DV tbh.

Whatever the outcome it's horrible for everyone.

CabbageLeaves Thu 14-Mar-13 19:01:22

It's vile

It really is shocking/horrible and everything else really. Threesomes, dogging, Jezza Kyle it's got it all. Those poor, poor children.

Minimammoth Thu 14-Mar-13 19:03:51

It is tragic, those poor poor children. Their set up, morals etc are beyond my comprehension, I am no saint and of the view each to their own if the arrangements works. But I suspect DV or something else going on.

flippinada Thu 14-Mar-13 19:09:25

Yes, it's awful. Really depressing and grim. It sounds like a very degraded lifestyle.

Those poor children.

Yes, on and off.

Can't quite get my head around how these people lived. Very very odd.

Those poor children. sad

The poor innocent children. sad

WildThong Thu 14-Mar-13 19:45:42

It's hard to listen to it unfold. The poor jury must be sickened.
Poor wee souls. Disgusting adults.

Nancy66 Thu 14-Mar-13 20:09:00

Yep - really grim.

It's terrible and yes I agree about the DV. Horrible family set up for those poor kids.

stephrick Thu 14-Mar-13 20:13:08

Were social services involved?

12 weeks with no washing!!!

stephrick Thu 14-Mar-13 20:17:55

I heard that it's gotta be BS

Chippychop Thu 14-Mar-13 20:19:04

I'm keep missing the news at the mo.. Is it mainly being reported on the tv? I wouldn't mind catching up on it I find it so fascinating people are really like this. Call me naïve.

suebfg Thu 14-Mar-13 20:21:40

Not really. They're like animals, yuck.

WildThong Thu 14-Mar-13 20:22:54

BS?

stephrick Thu 14-Mar-13 20:23:27

Me too, I'm into Psychology, but I can't figure why

Coconutty Thu 14-Mar-13 20:25:06

Shocking, those poor poor children.

Rowlers Thu 14-Mar-13 20:29:16

Very upsetting the whole nasty story. I have a feeling the dad was actually on jeremy kyle a few years ago. Something about having too many children and not working? He's vile. And did i hear right yesterday that he had a threesome with wife and the other accused bloke the day after the fire? Hope i got that wrong.

HillBilly76 Thu 14-Mar-13 20:29:20

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LottieJenkins Thu 14-Mar-13 20:30:25

I was shocked about the dogging and the no washing and changing of underwear for twelve weeks! [vomit emotiocon!]

""Jobless Philpott said the dogging session took place in a park in his leopard-skin lined minibus. He added the couple had been dogging there before — with Mairead having to have an abortion after she became pregnant with a stranger’s baby.""

OMG. shock. You absolutely could not make this stuff up. Do people really live like this?

It is beyond sad, those poor children.

charlieandlola Thu 14-Mar-13 20:51:01

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Nancy66 Thu 14-Mar-13 20:55:25

Reminds me very much of the Karen Matthews case. Very similar type of underclass.

Who was looking after all the children while they were out dogging etc?

Nancy66 Thu 14-Mar-13 20:59:12

I doubt anybody was...

The 12 weeks no washing was to do with the petrol found on his clothing wasn't it? Shame he doesn't realise that they can trace petrol down to individual batches.

lemonmuffin Thu 14-Mar-13 21:24:59

I agree, it's pretty awful. The thing is, in many areas this kind of behaviour is not that unusual.

And I am kind of surprised that so many mumsnetters seem to be so shocked by it. Maybe it's a north/south divide, I don't know. Or a working/middle class thing.

Cotapaxi Thu 14-Mar-13 21:27:58

It's not working class though. Underclass as Nancy said.

mercibucket Thu 14-Mar-13 21:29:43

north south divide???

middle class working class???

ffs

flippinada Thu 14-Mar-13 21:30:34

It's got nothing to do with being working class or northern/southern.

You get folk like this in every strata of society, unfortunately. The upper class/well off ones are looked on more benignly as eccentrics or oddballs.

ArielThePiraticalMermaid Thu 14-Mar-13 21:31:25

Absolutely terrible, but please don't use the word subhuman sad Pretty awful connotations.

Poor children. What kind of adults would they have become? We'll never know.

Dreadful. The poor children.

Feel for the jury too, I did jury service a few years ago and was on a much less shocking low profile murder case which nonetheless made a very big impact on me, I would think this is going to be extremely hard for them to cope with. I've been called up again in a few weeks, not looking forward to it.

lemonmuffin Thu 14-Mar-13 21:41:35

Okay. Maybe not a north/south/class divide thing then.

I just find it a bit suprising why other mumsnetters are so shocked by this.

Close to where I live, this kind of lifestyle is not that uncommon.

wrongsideoftheroad Thu 14-Mar-13 21:47:23

It actually reminds me of the Fred and Rose West case in terms of the promiscuity with strangers.

Completely f*d up, all of it.

Cotapaxi Thu 14-Mar-13 21:50:10

Because it is shocking I would suspect, how could you not be shocked? It may be common in some places but that certainly doesn't make living like that ok. Sadly I imagine the children would have grown up equally messed up sad.

Really?? I've worked with families in the grimmest of grim areas, with varying levels of intelligence and competence when it comes to parenting, and I'm pretty unshockable. But I find this whole situation, with threesomes, dogging, abortions and swapping partners really really fucking awful. I don't imagine they kept it secret from the children either. I bet they've seen or heard more than most kids. Grim.

GW297 Thu 14-Mar-13 21:57:20

So sad.

stretch Thu 14-Mar-13 22:02:24

I hate the term 'underclass'. How vile.

MumVsKids Thu 14-Mar-13 22:05:53

I'm reading the daily court transcripts via www.thisisderbyshire.co.uk - it's so so sad for the children involved, and I'm very much keeping an open mind.

I worked with the family many moons ago, and the one obvious thing that always shone through everything was their love for their children.

I hope the truth will surface through the trial and that justice will be done, whichever way that may be. Most of all, I hope those 6 children are resting peacefully.

For those interested, if you do a YouTube or google search for Jeremy Kyle episodes 2007, this is the series with mick philpott in.

lemonmuffin Thu 14-Mar-13 23:43:11

Yes really Agent Provocateur. You work with families in grim areas yet you find abortion/swapping partners to be so shocking?
Welcome to the real world.

WildThong Thu 14-Mar-13 23:50:23

I'm sure it's not the real world, just one very nasty part of it. I've been shocked and disgusted like most people have.

LadyBigtoes Thu 14-Mar-13 23:51:21

He seems like a very odd person who has some kind of ability to hold sway over various other people/women, whether through DV or other means. I don't think people like that are limited to "underclass" or working class, they crop up in all walks of life.

The case is awful and sad and I agree, increasingly gobsmacking at every turn. I don't know whether I'm more horrified at the idea of not washing or changing your pants for weeks, or the idea that that's a sensible defence to fabricate.

JakeBullet Fri 15-Mar-13 06:28:19

Mumvskids (great name btw), yes I agree that even if they are guilty they did not intend for their children to die am absolutely certain they loved their children.

It's shocking but not surprising to me that their lives were this messed up. I have worked with families like this (not this big) and sometimes what comes up is very shocking....and sometimes for these families it's normality.

I also agree with whoever said that families like this are not restricted to those in poverty.....you get them right through the social classes. If they are rich they would be considered eccentric.

DolomitesDonkey Fri 15-Mar-13 06:40:27

I don't want to follow but morbid curiosity means I get drawn in.

Those poor, poor children.

It was reported they had further threesomes after that fateful night.

Fucked up lives. Always seems somehow cosmically unfair that people like that are able to conceive at the drop of a hat whilst living on a diet of mothers pride and bensons.

I want to say I'm surprised that people live like this, but I think I'm grounded enough in reality to know it happens. Must be quite an eye opener though for the legions of mn-ers who insist people like this do not exist and they don't breed for cash!

I don't give a shit about "rights" - if I had any powers, I'd grab every single child living like that and whisk them away.

JakeBullet Fri 15-Mar-13 06:59:07

I don't think they "breed for cash" but I do think their children "just happen", I doubt they are all planned for.....it's just another mouth to feed sadly.

They are also very unusual in size....a FOI request by a journalist in Feb 2013 showed there were just 190 families with 10+ children in the UK and obviously not all will be claiming benefits. I worked with one of this number...they had 13 children and claimed no benefits as Dad was independently wealthy.

zeldapinwheel Fri 15-Mar-13 07:11:08

I watched them on Jeremy Kyle, the clip is on youtube. He came across as controlling and defensive and really not very nice. The usual Kyle scum.

WidowWadman Fri 15-Mar-13 07:16:15

I find it a bit yuck if people follow this for titillation and entertainment.

I wish the reporting was a bit less sensationalist. And I think there's no need to play the recordings of the 999 call in a report about it, as it's not adding any news value. This stuff is for the jury to hear, but not for anybody else.

ldt87 Fri 15-Mar-13 07:20:09

Well in reply to the north, South, lower, middle class comments, I am completely working class and live around the corner from where this happened. I am shocked and disgusted by these people and the details of the case. It has nothing to do with being poor or where you live, there are scum bags everywhere and I don't like it to be implied that people from where I live who are struggling financially behave in this way. It's snobby and elitist. I am as sickened as anyone else by this case, and seeing the house weekly is horrible. This shocked all of derby and I don't think many people from this area would appreciate those comments.

DolomitesDonkey Fri 15-Mar-13 08:17:31

Jake My Philpott has reportedly admitted that he did in fact "breed for cash". In fact, this entire incident allegedly revolves around the fact that he wanted custody of his ex gf's children (and the benefits that go with them!) - and her out of the picture - i.e., imprisoned!

It exists. It happens and it even comes from their own mouths!

DolomitesDonkey Fri 15-Mar-13 08:20:19

The "x number of children in x numbers of family" is a bit of a red herring though isn't it? Given the somewhat "unusual set-up" of this family - unless of course my understanding of marriage is out of date.

On paper it's 2 families with x number of children each - i.e., not hitting that magical number of 10. Yet Mr Philpott's sperm travelled far and wide.

Doyouthinktheysaurus Fri 15-Mar-13 08:25:49

I have found the stuff coming out about their lifestyle incredibly shocking!

I don't care of that makes me deluded or a prude or whatever, I really am shocked that people with children could live their lives in such a sordid way.

Very, very sad for the surviving children to have to know this stuff.

hackmum Fri 15-Mar-13 08:26:36

I've been following it. It's pretty horrible and shocking. What's interesting me now (from a legal point of view) is that Mairead's defence lawyer has been attacking Mick, so it looks as if her defence will be that he did it, but she had nothing to do with it. While his defence is that it was carried out by a third party.

JakeBullet Fri 15-Mar-13 08:53:06

I wasn't really meaning the Philpott family in particular although re-reading my post I can see it reads that way. I think in really chaotic families that I have worked with, the children haven't really been planned with anything in mind....indeed not planned at all sad

scottishmummy Fri 15-Mar-13 09:00:33

Not at all.too distressing all the fatalities

duchesse Fri 15-Mar-13 09:11:38

Agree with Jake, I think the women (although one of them was strong enough to leave) were being abused. The man appears insane. I find their lives beyond comprehension. Terrible for the poor children. Hope the other woman and her children are OK and have managed to get themselves to a place of safety and avoided falling back in with another abuser.

expatinscotland Fri 15-Mar-13 09:15:12

Poor little kids.

Nancy66 Fri 15-Mar-13 09:29:00

I'm surprised so many people are shocked. Families like this aren't common but they're not exactly rare either.

A family relative works with at risk early years kids and she sees a fair bit of this sort of thing: women with many children, most of whom she can't name the father of . Lots of inbreeding among cousins, step siblings, filthy homes, zero personal hygiene.

They are also highly promiscuous, constantly having unprotected sex (often in front of small children) with strangers or people from their estates.

They don't have loving feelings towards each other or their children because of how they live and were raised. Their kids mean as much to them as your tea mug does to you....they're just there.

diddl Fri 15-Mar-13 09:39:05

It is all shocking, really.

The children who died-were they were all his & his wife's children?

But he still has children by other women, but his wife had no other children?

Most shocking that anyone might even contemplate setting a fire with children in the house-let alone actually do it!-if that is what happened, of course.

scottishmummy Fri 15-Mar-13 09:41:02

Mr phipott is not in any way insane.he's got capacity,sound mind.this isn't mh issue

hackmum Fri 15-Mar-13 09:41:44

"The children who died-were they were all his & his wife's children?

But he still has children by other women, but his wife had no other children?"

Yes, that's my understanding. She lost all her children in the fire. Unbelievably shocking.

expatinscotland Fri 15-Mar-13 09:44:12

He has fathered 17 kids in total. Don't know how many she had.

Setting a fire deliberately with your kids in the house, no, I cannot imagine it.

JakeBullet Fri 15-Mar-13 10:04:49

I think we have to be careful here. ..I know that nobody has posted anything silly. ...but its still at trial....they have not yet been found guilty.

Anyone who would set a fire knowing the children were in the house is beyond the pale though.

Minimammoth Fri 15-Mar-13 10:38:10

I agree Jake, they are innocent until proven guilty. However, people especially mums with children do form opinions.

lrichmondgabber Fri 15-Mar-13 10:44:45

Yes, it will make enormous news at the end of the trial

mercibucket Fri 15-Mar-13 12:22:47

Yeah, nancy66, and that's just the nobility

(Ahem, joke, sort of)

Nancy66 Fri 15-Mar-13 17:00:07

merci - it's often been said that the top drawer and the lowest rungs of society have the most in common!

I struggle to see why he was such a catch.

Why hasn't Mairead been told to use the marital coersion defence that Vicky Pryce tried to use? I could see it potentially working in this case, with DV and his behaviour / other women.

Just a vile situation. I feel for the ex's children, who can find out all of their dad's sordid behaviour online sad

lemonmuffin Fri 15-Mar-13 19:08:26

What I remember about this is that when the news first broke someone posted a thread on here entitled 'benefit hatred is out of control'.

Something for the Op to reconsider perhaps.

Minimammoth Fri 15-Mar-13 21:02:28

I simply posted the thread so that people could express their views on a news item. The issue of benefits did not occur to me at all.

MumVsKids Fri 15-Mar-13 21:18:29

I think the issues over benefits is somewhat skewed now anyway. In the past he had freely admitted he wanted a bigger council house, and they would keep having kids til they got one.

They did the whole Anne Widdecombe documentary thing where she moved in with them for a fortnight to try and see what was stopping him getting a job, plus the Jeremy Kyle thing, and he claims the national papers never paid him a penny for the stories.

I don't know whether I believe that or not, but I think this has gone beyond being about more benefits now.

I think The next few days will be interesting. He has been been cross examined very robustly, and the lawyer for the prosecution has stated that Mairead has broken her silence and will give evidence against his story, though this remains to be seen.

Again, I wish not to judge and I do firmly believe that these parents loved their children unreservedly, but whatever happened just went horribly, horribly wrong and whether it was a plan or not, it had the worse possible ending sad

AnnabelKarma Fri 15-Mar-13 21:33:51

I don' t believe for one minute they loved their children unreservedly. I agree with all nancy66 has said.
No one who loves their children, no mattet how depraved, deprived or downright monstrous they are, sets fire to a house with them in it .

GW297 Fri 15-Mar-13 21:58:40

Nancy66 - you explain it very well, especially the tea mug analogy. I hadn't thought of it like that before. Also, still always shocked at how prevalent incest is in our society.

alemci Fri 15-Mar-13 22:10:02

well said Dolomite. Terrible situation. Children shouldn't have to experience that sort of thing. so wrong. don't know what the solution is but should people like him be able to father children?

would he bother if it wasn't for our welfare system? It must have some bearing on the situation.

clam Fri 15-Mar-13 22:36:35

I'm not sure I see the relevance of whether they loved their kids or not. Perhaps it's naive of me to think that all parents do so, but I've been told it about a family near me only this week. Yet the children in question are suffering appalling neglect. What good is this parental "love" to them, when it manifests itself in ways which go against so much of what our society holds dear?

So, some parents can allow their children to go hungry, dirty, miss school, be abused physically, emotionally and (possibly, in this case I'm thinking of) sexually, but it's OK because "mummy loves you."

I can barely bring myself to read the evidence being alleged in the Philpott case. It's just too sad.

Cotapaxi Fri 15-Mar-13 23:08:06

I absolutely do not believe that all parents love their children. I knew a family once with 2 children and they openly expressed their desire to have a 3rd so that they could move into bigger council acccommodation. They were both alcoholics, their house was absolutely unbelievable - filthy, stinking, piles of festering damp clothes everywhere. He was the brother of a friend of mine (who didn't live like that at all). I visited many times and never once in all that time saw any food being prepared or any attention paid to the children.

It's like Nancy says, they were just there, the parents barely registered their existence and it was tragic sad.

creighton Mon 18-Mar-13 19:33:07

i think this is the first time in his adult life that he has been called to account for his actions. his actions seem to have no consequences (for him), his partners and the welfare state pick up the pieces for him.

Minimammoth Mon 18-Mar-13 20:29:37

Mairead seems to have had a hard start in life. Went along with his wishes so as not to lose him, their family life etc. poor woman.

propertyNIGHTmareBEFOREXMAS Mon 18-Mar-13 21:15:10

Each day a new article on this case is reported and each day my jaw hits the floor again. It is horrifying to hear the detail of how these parents behaved. God rest the souls of their poor, poor children sad

Chippychop Tue 19-Mar-13 10:16:59

I can't decide whether mairhead is extremely f****d up due to her past or just simple. Either way he is an example of everything that is wrong with this country. I cannot feel any sympathy for the pathetic excuse of a human. Those poor children... Lets hope it's not too late to save the others from a decrepid life

donnie Tue 19-Mar-13 13:04:26

even if they are found not guilty I sincerely hope that any other children they do have are taken away and adopted by loving parents who don't live in a mire of sordid filth, cannabis and dogging sessions. Yeuch....these people are sewer rats.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

I have been following it because ever since they were charged I've been trying to figure out what the HELL they were planning. The whole thing was too risky to be a simple "Let's burn the house down so we'll get a new one" type job. What they are actually accused of plotting, and the details that are coming to light, are just absolutely beyond comprehension. Those kids didn't stand a chance, in every sense of the phrase.

hackmum Tue 19-Mar-13 17:05:15

Dreams - I don't think you can say that. Maybe better to report your own comment to be on the safe side?

From today's proceedings, it looks as if her defence is that she had nothing to do with it, and she doesn't know who did it. It might be him, it might be someone else.

georgedawes Tue 19-Mar-13 17:35:59

Been following it too, it's so shocking.

The girlfriend has already given evidence, from behind a screen. She said Philpott was abusive and she was scared leaving him. His defence seemed to be to implicate her relatives in starting the fire.

Minimammoth Wed 20-Mar-13 17:53:47

So Paul Mosely will not give evidence. He is using his right to silence. Hmmm.

Ive reported my last post just in case I cant say that blush

Ah, I must admit I havent closely followed the trial as I find it so depressing after working with many families in the same position. Nancy66s words on Friday as so very true and families with these set ups are more common than most people realise.

So hes not giving evidence, its a hmmm from me aswell.

DolomitesDonkey Thu 21-Mar-13 05:37:19

squalor It was previously reported that Philpott wanted custody of the ex's children for financial reasons (benefits) and figured that the way to do that was to implicate the ex-gf in the arson. At the time the fire happened he was actually in the middle of a court case regarding custody.

The sordid details were all reported at the time.

Was all that reported at the time of their arrest? Must have missed it.

DolomitesDonkey Thu 21-Mar-13 10:13:37

Yes it was.

boxershorts Thu 21-Mar-13 11:33:23

I think the trial may end before easter. But the judge will take 2 days summing up

Domjolly Thu 21-Mar-13 12:11:21

I am not shocked was a foster carer for alomst 8 years not socked at all i hope you all see what sw have to deal with so easy for every one to sw didnt put in enough support with these tyoe of familes but sort from the sw moving in and looking after the children usually this is the life the parents are leading behind

The tails the tell the newspapers as they cry sw snached my chikdren

Domjolly Thu 21-Mar-13 12:16:13

DreamsTurnToGoldDust so true did any one watch theat doumentry a few years back about sw i think it was called protecting our chikdren the philpots are silimar to a lot of familes sadly sw dont have the public or the law behind to remove these children who are suffering from what is known as low level negelct

Because people either refuse to believe families like this are real or think sw have some magic wand i know sw who have worked with the same familes mum then daugter up until they retire with not one once of change in the family its not down to the sw the familes often dont want to make a change

edam Sat 23-Mar-13 09:16:06

It's all so sordid and just grim beyond words. I feel so sorry for the women and children. It appears from the evidence so far that both mothers were extremely vulnerable, were already victims of shitty childhoods before they met him, and one at least felt she had to do all sorts of horrible things to keep him because she thought he was the only person who had ever loved her.

I hope the children who had escaped with their mother before the fire go on to have a much better childhood without Philpott, whether or not he's found guilty of murdering their brothers or sisters.

Minimammoth Sat 23-Mar-13 11:43:04

I wonder if it is all over now or whether there will be other witnesses, before judges summing up.

hackmum Sun 24-Mar-13 11:43:41

I was just reading the This is Derbyshire report (which is more detailed than the accounts in the national press):

www.thisisderbyshire.co.uk/Philpott-Case-trio-slammed-frankly-rubbish/story-18491343-detail/story.html#axzz2OSMIqtuZ

I expected the trial to go on for longer, but as far as I can tell, the prosecution has done their summing up, and the defence barristers are also doing their summings-up but (as far as I can tell), the defence barristers haven't called any witnesses. Is that right? Or have I missed something?

WhatKindofFool Mon 25-Mar-13 10:33:05

I found this particularly shocking. How could someone who loved their children be joking in the mortuary?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-21593235

georgedawes Mon 25-Mar-13 15:51:04

Judge is summing up this afternoon, expected to continue til wed morning

Minimammoth Mon 25-Mar-13 17:11:56

I've not seen any updates recently in the national news. Do they report judges summing ups.

georgedawes Mon 25-Mar-13 18:12:04
hackmum Mon 25-Mar-13 18:23:52

From that report: "Mr Nolan [Paul Moseley's barrister] said his client's "peculiar personality would not make him a good witness".

georgedawes Mon 25-Mar-13 18:25:28

Looks like the jury will go out on Wed. I wonder if there will be a verdict before Easter? Probably not.

Nancy66 Mon 25-Mar-13 18:57:00

...i would expect a quick verdict on this.

hackmum Mon 25-Mar-13 19:32:56

Yes, I think it will be a quick verdict too. Is it possible to say that without being prejudicial?

If they go out Wednesday morning, I bet they`ll be back in by afternoon tea.

georgedawes Mon 25-Mar-13 19:48:49

Really? I thought it might be longer as they've got to consider the three verdicts.

alcibiades Mon 25-Mar-13 20:31:07

I don't know very much about what a judge can say to a jury in his/her summing up, but can the judge indicate to the jury that a quick verdict wouldn't be a good idea, even if the jury could reach unanimous decisions within a short amount of time? I'm thinking of the adage that justice should not only done but be seen to be done.

georgedawes Tue 26-Mar-13 08:13:08

No the judge can't say that, I'm sure they'll stress that they need to consider all the evidence and be sure beyond all reasonable doubt of their verdict.

Does anyone know if the judge has summed up yet?, I cant find any news on it today.

hackmum Tue 26-Mar-13 17:12:30

The judge has begun summing up, but hasn't finished. The national press hasn't been that good at reporting, but there's a fairly full account in This is Derbyshire:

http://www.thisisderbyshire.co.uk/Philpott-deaths-Live-updates-day-30-trial/story-18521454-detail/story.html#axzz2OfOBmp3z

georgedawes Wed 27-Mar-13 14:23:43

Jury has retired to consider its verdict.

moonabove Wed 27-Mar-13 14:51:07

I get the impression the national press are being careful about waiting for the verdict before going to town on the story. I agree the jury will probably not be out very long.

Minimammoth Wed 27-Mar-13 15:00:21

I think you are right moonabove.

My feeling is that Maireads verdict might hold them up a little as there seems to be factors that could make hers a little difficult to decide outright, does that make any sense to anyone? (probably only my muddled mind)

WhatKindofFool Wed 27-Mar-13 15:43:52

Seems from what I have read that there is not that much evidence against any of them.

georgedawes Wed 27-Mar-13 16:10:16

The evidence is certainly circumstantial, it's up to the jury really to decide if it's enough to convict. I agree with dreams though, I think that they will take a while to decide because there are 3 defendants and they will need to be sure of a verdict on each of them.

georgedawes Wed 27-Mar-13 16:30:30
TomDudgeon Wed 27-Mar-13 16:31:36

I suspect its evidence and beyond all reasonable doubt that'll make it take a while.
Forensics on the petrol is amazing isn't it

Domjolly Wed 27-Mar-13 18:00:44

The thing that did it for me is i would not expect anyone to be having a threesome the night there six children die


I could imagain lots of men who might get very drunk and have a one night stand in these circumstances a few days later ect but i could not imagine any mother being able to lift here head from her pillow let alone have sex and threesome at that

georgedawes Wed 27-Mar-13 18:16:40

I think it was before the fire they did that dom (and in the days afterwards).

Not defending them btw!

DolomitesDonkey Wed 27-Mar-13 19:21:57

No george. It was the night - before the fire - and in the hotel afterwards when suffering grief.

georgedawes Wed 27-Mar-13 19:59:23

Yes sorry we're saying the same thing I think. I just meant it wasn't the following night after the fire I don't think (still fucking unbelievable tho).

edam Wed 27-Mar-13 23:20:40

Dom, I think perhaps a woman might be, for instance, in the habit of being controlled by her partner and going along with his wishes. Not necessarily the case here, clearly we need to wait for the verdict. But as a for instance.

dothraki Tue 02-Apr-13 16:14:11

GUILTY -GUILTY -GUILTY

TomDudgeon Tue 02-Apr-13 16:18:37

Good

tiggytape Tue 02-Apr-13 16:20:19

All 3 found guilty of manslaughter by a majority 10-2 verdict
Such a horrible, tragic case.

TomDudgeon Tue 02-Apr-13 16:32:11

Bbc says the men had unanimous verdicts of guilty and she had a majority
Rip little ones

lemonmuffin Tue 02-Apr-13 16:40:37

The next time people attack as 'benefit bashers' those who dare to express concern about this kind of situation, please remember this:

Mick Philpott 'just wanted house full of kids and benefit money that brings'

Seventeen children in total, from this man.

Well, I thought all along that he was utility along with so a mate Mosley, but I'm surprised at her.

Rest in peace little ones,justice will be done now x

expatinscotland Tue 02-Apr-13 16:59:51

Mairhead is an adult as much as he is.

Minimammoth Tue 02-Apr-13 17:28:41

Well that ends the trial. I hope we don't get loads of articles from members of the family on how their life was. But I guess it's inevitable. I hope the remainder of his children have a better life and a better example than the one he set.

youmaycallmeSSP Tue 02-Apr-13 17:36:57

I haven't been following the news reports as I found the few I did read incredibly sordid but just saw that they've all been found guilty.

I hope Mick's other children have some chance of a better life.

georgedawes Tue 02-Apr-13 18:01:22

Lots coming out now about his violent past.

specialsubject Tue 02-Apr-13 18:05:48

This is just horrible. May women learn to reject men like this, may there be help for them to do so and may no more children be killed in these battles.

Pantah630 Tue 02-Apr-13 18:11:22

I hope he rots and she gets some much needed mental health help while inside. Those poor children.

georgedawes Tue 02-Apr-13 18:15:25

Emma Willis had a lucky escape sad

donnie Tue 02-Apr-13 18:18:22

No surprise to me,or anyone by the looks of it. Imagine though, being one of his other children and knowing all your life that your own father did that to your half siblings.
I feel quite strongly that he should have been tried for murder and not MS (although I know why it was MS).
I have no pity for Mairead - I agree that she was most likely a victim of DV but she should have come clean. She had ample opportunity to come clean.For me that is the deal breaker with regards to her.
What an awful, awful case.sad

georgedawes Tue 02-Apr-13 18:49:40

I agree, he really could have got prosecuted for murder, see he had a previous conviction for attempted murder. I think the jury should have been told that, but thankfully found guilty without it.

georgedawes Tue 02-Apr-13 19:07:47

Sorry meant Lisa Willis, Emma is a presenter.

niceguy2 Tue 02-Apr-13 19:59:46

It's not murder because it was not premeditated. From the sounds of things it was not his intention to kill. Not this time anyway. Manslaughter was the appropriate charge as abhorrent as his crime is/was.

Regardless, he's now got his wish of living in a large house at the luxury of the taxpayers. I hope his fellow inmates give him the welcome he deserves.

georgedawes Tue 02-Apr-13 20:05:27

Murder doesn't have to be premeditated, but I know what you mean. But, I do wonder if he did mean to cause harm really..he seems so callous that he would put his children in such danger, perhaps he was prepared to hurt them for his own ends? I guess we'll never know the full story.

niceguy2 Tue 02-Apr-13 20:16:47

From what I've read it seems he didn't intend to kill them. He wanted the kids because of the money he'd get from the benefits. Killing them would have been counterproductive.

NicholasTeakozy Tue 02-Apr-13 21:02:40

Condemn the guilty, not an entire class. Article by Owen Jones for The Independent.

WhoKnowsWhereTheChocolateGoes Tue 02-Apr-13 21:25:35

For murder there has to be intent to cause grievous bodily harm, but it can be momentary, rather than premeditated. I guess he genuinely intended to get the children out and did not intend to harm them.

I listened to the statements given by the families of Mick and Mairead on the radio this afternoon, they were very moving and dignified, my heart goes out to them.

Eurostar Tue 02-Apr-13 21:37:26

Please don't go down the road of saying this was mainly motivated by benefits, this is a very sick man motivated by power and control who could not bear it if a woman tried to be anything but an extension of him. The money was a bonus for him I'm sure but no way it was the main motivation. If benefits did not exist, I doubt it would have stopped him fathering children left, right and centre in his relentless search for power. He would have doubtless just left them in penury.

It has now come out that he was convicted of stabbing his girlfriend who tried to leave him in his late teens and attacking her mother. He of course got a derisory sentence and no supervision it would seem on coming out as he continued to be violent towards women. Clare's Law may have helped his future partners, although they seem to have been so vulnerable, it is questionable if these vulnerable women he chose would have been able to see past the immediate situation of sometimes feeling safe and protected by him and otherwise feeling terrified and powerless. People up thread are saying her performing oral sex on Mosely after the deaths showed she did not care, surely this is about her being enslaved and doing what she was told.

Lisa Willis managed to find the strength to escape, much respect to her, it seems her sister helped. Mairhead presumably had no one in her life to encourage her that she could manage without him (on the relationships forum much of helping women escape domestic abuse is about helping the poster believe they have power themselves and do not need to give it away). I wonder if Lisa would one day have helped Mairhead to escape had things not gone how they did.

I hope he has a very long sentence. I doubt he can ever change and learn empathy or change his need to control women, I fear that, on his release, his notoriety will enable him to enslave further, young, vulnerable women.

PenelopePisstop Tue 02-Apr-13 22:17:53

And now another Local Authority (Nottingham) announces they are conducting a Serious Case Review. These should be called Shut The Gate After The Horse Has Bolted Reviews. No doubt they will find that Lessons Should Be Learned and at no point did anyone consider that 11 children in a 3 bedroom house, with 2 women taking turns to sleep with a convicted attempted murder, in a caravan in the garden, with another 6 children somewhere, was anything to be worried about. Those children must've been Making Their Own Choices.

Smudging Tue 02-Apr-13 22:29:33

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Corygal Tue 02-Apr-13 22:35:14

Best ever from the Philpott's non-judgemental priest:

"The parents' way of life didn't affect the children's lives.''

It ended them.

Pantah630 Tue 02-Apr-13 23:52:58

Apparently Maireads sisters tried to get her to leave but she wouldn't. Therefore she had help if she'd wanted it, maybe she was so scared she couldn't go or maybe she wanted to stay. We'll never know the truth in her actions.

The BBC documentary was very distressing and you can feel the despair at the inability to understand the Philpotts actions coming off her family, their friends, the police and teachers in spades. The priest and headmaster of the senior school not though, they seemed more bemused, I can't put my finger on why, but I was confused at their words. A very, very sad story, those poor children.

DolomitesDonkey Wed 03-Apr-13 10:34:29

I'm curious about Mairead because it's been implied that she came from the travelling community - whom I thought were very protective of their community and really do not like the girls "marrying out". Can anyone shed any light on this?

DolomitesDonkey Wed 03-Apr-13 10:34:54

i.e., why didn't her brothers & cousins beat 7 shades of shit out of him 10 years ago?

phantomnamechanger Wed 03-Apr-13 11:28:28

I watched the news and panorama weeping last night.
I wanted to watch it to try to fathom how these people live and think.

Aside from their sex lives, the most shocking facts for me were the singing karaoke days after the deaths, and the food fight in the hospital while the older boy, who they did not go and see, lay dying.

Amazing that the children all seem to have been so well adjusted and happy at school etc, RIP babies. So tragic.

her sisters seem to have tried again and again to get her to see sense and leave Mick - what the attrcation was I will never comprehend, but he was certainly a bully and a control freak and I doubt he knew the meaning of "love" as the majority of parents understand it.

vivizone Wed 03-Apr-13 16:24:53

Can someone link the Panorama show. Thanks

EmmelineGoulden Wed 03-Apr-13 16:54:33
IrrelevantElephant Wed 03-Apr-13 17:40:51

I saw they were found guilty, but I hadn't seen anywhere what sentences they had been given- has that been decided yet?

Minimammoth Wed 03-Apr-13 17:43:01

No, the judge has said she needs more time to think on it. I imagine Mairaed's sentence will be shorter.

vivizone Wed 03-Apr-13 18:05:56

Thank you Emmeline.

I can't imagine what it is like to lose 6 kids in one go. They both can't be 'normal' in the head. They just can't.

How does a mother lose her senses enough to be involved in the murder of her 6 kids? had the kids survived they would have had to live with the knowledge their parents poured petrol to their home whilst they were sleeping. It's utterly mind blowing.

Do you think the parents suffer from under development of the brain? I don't know how to ask this question properly but I am leaning on learning development not functioning.

How did the brain decide this was a good idea? a 10 year old could tell you this is not a good idea under 5 seconds.

To imagine children being brought up by such senseless people is just sad. I could weep.

MinnieBar Wed 03-Apr-13 18:36:59

If you read any of the threads on here where a woman is in either an emotionally, financially, physically or sexually abusive relationship you'll see that it's never so easy for them to 'just go'.

Their mindset has been so twisted and changed that they often can't / won't trust their own thoughts, even if it means continuing to put their children at risk.

WhatKindofFool Wed 03-Apr-13 19:23:03

Her relationship with Mick is no excuse. Your children are your prime instinct. They didn't even bother shutting the bedroom doors. If you watch the Panorama programme it shows Maraid as being very cold, uncaring and a liar.

donnie Thu 04-Apr-13 08:40:33

The sentences are due today; with all the information which has emerged about Mick Philpott's violent history, I really hope the Judge gives him a life sentence which can be passed in manslaughter cases. I expect Mairead Philpott will get a shorter sentence.
It might sound awful but really I do believe people like this deserve to be forcibly sterilised sad

Philpott's got 15 years.

ChazDingle Thu 04-Apr-13 11:07:24

am following the court proceedings on thisisderbyshire.co.uk they keep updating every few minutes, sounds like the judge is building up to give Mick Phillpott the longer sentance saying it is clear he was the ringleader etc

janey68 Thu 04-Apr-13 11:08:06

He's got life. Minimum 15 years

Shit, Mairaid's got longer ! 17 years. Why? shock

Mosley also got 17 years.

I get that neither of them have life sentences and the judge has said that "Whether you are ever released is a matter for the parole board" to Philpott but he could potentially be out, albeit on licence, before his wife.

Remotecontrolduck Thu 04-Apr-13 11:14:10

Mairead will only serve about half of her sentence, so about 8 years. Mick will serve 15 years minimum, he got life. It is a bit confusing though, they should just give them the time they will actually serve!!

Its unlikey either Mairead or Mosley will serve the whole 17 years whereas Philpott can't even be considered for parole for 15 years.

janey68 Thu 04-Apr-13 11:15:33

The wife and other guy haven't got longer. They have 17 years, philpott has life. The sentencing system is complex, but the minimum tariff does not mean he'll get out before them. They won't actually serve 17 years I doubt, and I imagine philpott will serve more than 15. So let's not get hung up thinking wrongly that they've been given a harsher sentence.
Frankly I wish none of them would get out, ever, after their despicable crime

Mandy2003 Thu 04-Apr-13 11:15:43

To recap: Mick has been given LIFE and both Mairead and Mosley have both been handed 17 year jail sentences. They will serve half that.

From Daily Mirror Live

janey68 Thu 04-Apr-13 11:16:14

X posts there chaz

MinesaBottle Thu 04-Apr-13 11:17:13

I highly doubt Philpott will be out in 15 years. He'll be a target for every other prisoner and will have a hard time keeping his nose clean.

The other guy Paul Mosley - what a callous sod. I can't fathom how none of them seemed to be able to feel or show deep emotion about what they did and what happened.

www.thisisderbyshire.co.uk/Child-killer-Paul-Mosley-came-Derby-Telegraph/story-18606352-detail/story.html#axzz2PT9f3QFl

Minsa
I was thinking the same. I would imagine MP is not going to be a model prisioner with his history of violence. I would assume he is going to be in quite a few fights / incidents in prison.

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