Nordic napping

(232 Posts)
suedehead Fri 22-Feb-13 08:37:49

So, I spotted this one this morning:
www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-21537988

Whilst at first you may think 'blimey', I can actually see the logic! Anyone tried this? Do you reckon it leads to healthier children?

Are we all just paranoid about someone nicking our babies...!?

OhBuggerandArse Fri 22-Feb-13 08:42:42

Did it with both mine and no one nicked either of them. Definitely good for them. My grandmothers generation all did it and wouldn't have thought of describing it as 'Nordic', just normal.

suedehead Fri 22-Feb-13 08:45:43

Just said that because of the news article - apparently far more common in that region.
[resolves to try this a bit more with DC]

PolkadotCircus Fri 22-Feb-13 08:50:04

But it's Swedish parenting,aren't they the experts on all parenting issues and what we should always aspire to?hmm

I'd love to hear from people who've done this! Do they sleep outside right from newborn? Is there any evidence to support it leading to less colds etc?

I think the key to this is they have the right clothes and pram liners. If you look at the picture in the report those babies are really snuggled down.

forevergreek Fri 22-Feb-13 08:53:14

Of course. I don't actually put them out in the cold, but we go out very day on walks in the freezing weather and they fall asleep

HeadFairy Fri 22-Feb-13 08:55:47

I've done it with both of mine, usually in the back garden. More so with dd than ds because she was born in midwinter (the cold winter of 2009-2010) and almost all our time was spent outside in the park with ds who was 2.3 at the time and needed to run off all his energy. She just got used to it from very early on. Pretty much every nap she had until she dropped them at 13 months was in the pushchair outside come rain or shine. She's been pretty healthy, no major illnesses, maybe three or four colds a year since birth.

We have a Polish nanny and she says they do it a lot in Poland too, they often use little cot sized duvets in the prams so they're really well wrapped up (she says she can always spot a Polish person because their baby is wrapped up in a duvet grin)

PenelopePitstops Fri 22-Feb-13 08:56:06

I was always out outside for a nap when small. Nothing crazy about it, watch call th e midwife with rows of babies outside houses!

suedehead Fri 22-Feb-13 09:00:17

I just haven't yet spotted the lines of pushchairs outside Costa.. ;-)

cory Fri 22-Feb-13 09:07:25

Well, they're not actually napping in sub-zero temperatures, are they? They're napping inside a cosy pram, sheep skin bag, fleece babygro etc etc- so more or less at room temperature.

I'm Swedish, yes it is normal, not least because parents and older children spend a lot of time outside so baby has to come too. And winter lasts a long, long time.

Trumpton Fri 22-Feb-13 09:32:00

I was born in 1951 up in the north of Scotland . I always napped outside in my pram .
My mother, when I expressed concern as an adult , said " don't be silly ,I tied your pram to the tree so you didn't blow away and I used to brush the snow off if it got too deep !! " < coughs pathetically >

PolkadotCircus Fri 22-Feb-13 09:33:59

It was common in this country too for years,my mum did it with me in Scotland,I did it with my 3.Not sure how the anti controlled crying brigade would view it but hey if it is Nordic it must be ok!

HeadFairy Fri 22-Feb-13 09:36:33

Polkadot, I'm in the anti controlled crying brigade, and I never left my dcs to cry outside. But if they were asleep I left them there. I don't think the two are connected.

PolkadotCircus Fri 22-Feb-13 09:49:07

Well I'm pretty sure many will cry for a while unheard(which I personally think isn't an issue,can't even rem my pram days at the bottom of the garden)however I think it's ironic that Nordic parenting is continually held up as an example to us all(nurseries recently) even when it goes against parenting styles that have previously caused MN carnage.But hey. I guess it sells a few newspapers.

Incidentally I do think it's a very healthy way of doing things,too little fresh air and being continuously cooped up in a cocktail of germs,mould spores,dust etc can't be good for anyone.

skratta Fri 22-Feb-13 09:51:31

I did that with three of mine. But I'm Swedish, we were living there, and even when we lived in Swedish Lapland (only with DTDs, we then moved to Stockholm) we did it, but everyone did. In Stockholm, we'd put them in the balcony of our flat for half an hour. The only problem is that in Sweden, and other cold countries, we have excellent baby clothes, basically miniature adult snow clothes, which are great. In the UK, the good ones are often very expensive, and I know that a lot of the ones people think are adequate would seem quite flimsy in Sweden.

PolkadotCircus Fri 22-Feb-13 09:53:35

Blankets,layers and cosy toes do the job.

My mum did it in the 60s in Northern Scotland and I survived,have seen the pictures of my red,wind chapped cheeks.grin

Branleuse Fri 22-Feb-13 09:56:18

i slept in a pram outside in Scotland as a baby

HeadFairy Fri 22-Feb-13 09:56:21

I had a foot muff thingy from our now defunct Bebe Confort Loola pushchair which was awesome, it's like a sleepingbag with a waterproof outer cover. I used to put dd in that with vest, sleepsuit, coat, hat, gloves, socks, fleece blanket and I'd put another blanket round her to stop any draughts getting in, so all that was poking out was her little pink cheeks and mouth and nose. Very cute!

BertieBotts Fri 22-Feb-13 09:56:25

I think it's fine and it doesn't have to equate with controlled crying if you can hear them.

I don't think you'd get away with leaving them outside Costa though in this country - unlikely someone would steal them, but someone might call the police!

momb Fri 22-Feb-13 09:58:34

I chose a nursery for one of my DD which did this, and was very happy with it....until OFSTED came and told them to bring the babies in :-(.
I'm a firm believer in 'no bad weather, only bad clothes' but with a baby it is so difficult to judge. It was easier knowing that she'd be outside so I coudl put her in snuggly clothes that were easy for the nursery to take off indoors.

This is interesting, although I am not sure where it sits with Nordic Napping. Maybe being outside where the virus is less easily transmitted to each other (unlike the warm classroom) prevents the children catching colds and flus?

I would leave mine outside if I had somewhere to, dd2 has always napped well in the buggy when I have been out in freezing temperatures with dd1.

suedehead Fri 22-Feb-13 10:01:47

Exactly Bertie
I think there would have to be a bit of a seachange for most non-parents to see this as fine. I was called over by a parking attendant in the Sainsbury's carpark the other day to have a look at the age of a child through the window to see whether I thought it would be an appropriate age for it to have been left alone sleeping in the car. I said I reckoned it was fine (have done it lots myself) but I think some people freak out a bit about it...

notso Fri 22-Feb-13 10:01:58

I just think of that programme a few years ago where three families tried out three different parenting styles and the one that had the controlled crying/strict routine style had their tiny newborn twins put outside in the pram screaming, while the expert was practically holding back the crying mother from bringing them in.
I honestly think this started partly because massive prams didn't fit in the house. The artical doesn't actually say the children who sleep outside are healthier just that the ones who generally spend more time outside have less days off preschool. I do believe in getting DC outside everyday whatever the weather but I am not convinced on the napping outdoors.

notso Fri 22-Feb-13 10:04:17

article blush my brain is mush!

HeadFairy Fri 22-Feb-13 10:07:47

I read an article years ago about goat herders (or shepherds of some sort) in Siberia where the temperature regularly drops below -40 in winter and how they sleep in tents throughout the winter. They have much lower levels of colds and flu, mostly because the virus just can't survive in such low temperatures. They had much longer life expectancy despite spending much of the year sleeping in really low temperatures. I don't think the cold is that bad for humans so long as they keep their bodies adequately warm. I think the same is true for babies and children.

EldonAve Fri 22-Feb-13 10:10:06

Mine would be wrapped up for outside naps at my parents. Wouldn't do it in London though

LindaMcCartneySausage Fri 22-Feb-13 10:12:12

Very common in Scotland too. I napped through freezing temperatures outside. We were all shoved to the bottom of the garden in our prams for naps come rain or shine. I would have done it with DS if we'd had a garden, but we're in central London now with a yard and a massive fox problem, so I am less keen.

mrsshackleton Fri 22-Feb-13 10:17:47

My worry would be cats and foxes.

girliefriend Fri 22-Feb-13 10:21:13

My friends sil is from Norway and we were all a little bit hmm as she always left her ds and dd out the front of her house in the pram for naps.

You couldn't eaisly see the pram from the house and she always had the front door shut. Obv the babies were fine but don't think I would have felt comfortable doing this.

Can however see the benefits of sleeping outside if you are confident the baby is warm and safe.

PolkadotCircus Fri 22-Feb-13 10:23:17

Yes in the old days you had bigger,higher up prams with pram nets,not sure re some of today's flimsy buggies re foxes,cats or wind.

I used to be left in the pram down the bottom of the garden in the 60's by DM.

I'm a bit hmm about whether I was always sleeping contentedly though !

But perhaps it did me some good after all ? hmm

TheThickPlottens Fri 22-Feb-13 10:36:05

I couldn't bring myself to do it with the dcs. It's the norm where I am but as I'm a blow in, it was a bit too different for me. The temperatures were below freezing when they were little so I took the easier option of plonking myself on the couch and letting them sleep in my arms.

Once I saw on the local tv that it was the swaddling feeling that gave them a good nap and not the air. They are really bundled up.

And last year a baby was stolen from outside the house. It was found hours later, alive and fine. A child had taken the baby and put it in a snow pile and left it there. So location and being able to see the baby is important. A baby monitor in the pram would be a good idea though.

CaurnieBred Fri 22-Feb-13 10:44:07

Did this with DD but our garden is enclosed and if it was really closed then she would be in the garage with the door to the back garden open. She was put outside in her pram wherever we were - friends, holiday. She did this until she was around 2 years old. She only slept indoor for naps when she was at daycare.

If it was very cold/wet then the cover would be over the buggy, otherwise the shadeababe would be over it.

She was well wrapped up - snowsuit, hat, woollen blanket, etc when the weather demanded it. I could see no difference to that than her falling asleep if we were outside walking.

She was/has been a very healthy child. Whether this has anything to do with her outdoor napping I have no idea.

CaurnieBred Fri 22-Feb-13 10:44:46

If it were really "cold". And I am in north London by the way.

ppeatfruit Fri 22-Feb-13 10:59:07

caurniebred I agree. I was never happy unless I could see and hear my DCs when they were asleep I would say to myself 'better to be safe than sorry'
IMO the cat nets are not really cat proof and definitely not fox proof!

My dd always napped outside as a baby I think its the norm here (Scotland). I don't think the fresh air did her any harm however she is always ill so it definitely didn't make her any healthier.

ppeatfruit Fri 22-Feb-13 11:06:00

sorry I meant I agree with TheThickPlottensgrin

One of my scottish sils does this. I did a bit but it wasn't too easy to get our pram in to our back garden - no side access and getting it through the house was a performance. What I did do was take them out for walks a lot and they would nap then. Dh has visited friends of ours in Sweden and seen their wee son napping outside in the snow. He was frankly horrified but they showed him the layers etc and he came home saying it was brilliant! I thionk it's a good idea. Especially in more northern countries when you need to get the dc outside as much as possible so they get whatever sunlight they can. no good raising children who can't bear to be outside.

louisianablue2000 Fri 22-Feb-13 11:09:30

Another north of scotland baby that was put out for naps here. My cousin still lives there and did it with her kids.

I think 'northern' people tend to have a more positive view of cold weather, just think of the forest nurseries that are popular in Scandinavia and Germany (there are a few in Scotland as well now!) where the LOs are outside all the time. Some of my ILs are from very hot countries and they are amazed at me having the windows open every day to air the house and complain if they have to out in anything other than roasting weather.

lisad123everybodydancenow Fri 22-Feb-13 11:12:09

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

louisianablue2000 Fri 22-Feb-13 11:15:38

Oh, I was also going to say at DD1's school there are big signs up saying don't take pushchairs into the school. There is a playground just outside the classroom that is not visible from the main road and yet at pickup time the majority of people with pushchairs take them into the school to queue instead of leaving them outside for five minutes. I feel negligent leaving DS outside even though I'm sure they want to keep the corridors clear for fire safety reasons and I can't imagine another parent would want to steal someone else's baby.

Inertia Fri 22-Feb-13 11:23:09

I avoided the nursery that put babies outside to sleep and brought them indoors to play . We picked the one which put the babies / children in cots / quiet room to sleep, and took them outside for most of the rest of the day for nature walks in the woods, playing in the fields and on outdoor play equipment. We did the same at home too - outside to play rather than sleep. I think it's more beneficial to actually be awake and interacting with the environment in their outdoor time.

If a baby is sleeping outside because that's where everyone else is then fair enough .

BadMissM Fri 22-Feb-13 11:27:56

My mother used to do it all the time, with my brother and I, but very wrapped up and in an ancient Silver Cross pram the size of a tank.... I grew up in London in the 60s/70s! When I was a child, you'd often see prams parked outside houses or cafes with sleeping babies inside. That said, don't think the tank like prams were too welcome IN shops and cafes...

DD was at creche in France, and they spent a large part of the time outside. If it was afternoon nap time and they fell asleep outside, they used to cover them and put them somewhere shady... (that said, Paris was warmer on the whole and they had a lovely enclosed garden....)

Would be lovely if we all had nice outside spaces to put sleeping babies!

prettybird Fri 22-Feb-13 11:28:23

Never seen a problem with it. In fact, did it occasionally with ds.

Another one from Scotland.

chesticles Fri 22-Feb-13 11:32:15

I often put my babies in a pram and went for a walk to get them to sleep, and then left them in the garden when I came back. They always seemed to have better naps when sleeping outside. Would do it in all sorts of weather, even if raining, as we have a small veranda so they were sheltered from the rain. I'd just check on them every 10 minutes. I've no idea if it helps with viruses etc, but it made then sleep better which is all I cared about. I'm another Scottish one, so maybe it's more normal up here

OutsideOverThere Fri 22-Feb-13 11:33:32

Oh wow, we have that pram actually all three <pram hun>

I love Swedish prams

<misses point totally>

OutsideOverThere Fri 22-Feb-13 11:34:46

Top pic is a Teutonia (German actually)

Bottom has two Emmaljungas I think

FYI smile

OutsideOverThere Fri 22-Feb-13 11:35:14

(I realise no one asked for that info) blush

poachedeggs Fri 22-Feb-13 11:43:19

IMO this is more to do with spending less time indoors sharing stuffy airspace with other DC than it is to do with them better in the cold. That's the health benefit that I can see anyway.

We live in Sweden now and I have had DD2 sleep both indoors and outdoors. Both have benefits imo, but certainly haven't seen low temps as a reason not to. As others have said, sturdy prams, outdoor lifestyle and very good clothing are key to doing it imo. DD2 settled and slept happily outdoors and at 2 she still naps like that if the situation warrants it. I have always kept her in my sight though, parked in front of the window.
At her nursery the rules on supervision ratios mean that the children don't nap outside. Some parents I talked to thought this was a classic example of health & safety gone mad.

Agree, it's about fresh air. It just happens that in Sweden the air is bloody cold!!

TheBigJessie Fri 22-Feb-13 11:52:27

In the last couple of years, there have been two incidents of hungry urban foxes attacking babies inside houses. Anyone who tries to pressure me into Nordic Napping can fuck right off.

<bad-tempered>

mrsbunnylove Fri 22-Feb-13 11:52:36

as someone who remembers sleeping outside, whilst being warmly wrapped, it is very,very pleasant and refreshing.

tangledupinpoo Fri 22-Feb-13 11:55:32

Arf at OutsideOverThere!

We did it with DS2. He was born that cold winter of 2009/2010. We are in Scotland. I can't quite believe we did do it now. He was toasty in many layers and used to go dozy as soon as we put his fleecy suit on before putting him in pram with blankets etc. I'm sure they're not cold but in retrospect I worry that neither did we know how hot he got. (I did obviously check the back of his neck regularly!) Temps outside would have been -2 to -5ish. He definitely slept for long times and was very content. He was just outside the back door so safe. (No foxes in this area either.)

First two DCs were summer babies and napping in their cots by 6 months.

Agree health benefits must be about fresh air in general though, and many places I wouldn't feel comfortable leaving a baby outside.

Espoo Fri 22-Feb-13 12:16:56

Both my two girls were born in Finland, both were Autumn, Winter babies and they both slept outside for their naps down to about -10. They slept beautifully outside. Sleeping outside is positively encouraged in Finland. New mothers are given information on clothing layers for their babies so that they can sleep outside. The only trouble we ever had was actually getting them to sleep inside!

OutsideOverThere Fri 22-Feb-13 12:19:53

To me sleeping in cold temperatures even with warm clothing is hideous - like when you go camping and can't sleep all night because your nose is cold sad

I am a big wuss though

We weren't in a position to leave DS outside when he was born, if we had a private back garden I would have though.

We're in Scotland though and he was born just before winter so he slept a lot outside anyway because I needed out so I would just sit out on benches.

You need to have a proper buggy/pram to do it though. I have a swiss one that was apparently built to survive an avalanche and he's lovely and cosy and covered in it, I wouldn't do it with a british pram.

BeCool Fri 22-Feb-13 12:34:34

When I lived with a garden I used to put DD in her pushchair (Maclaren), covered with a sarong under a tree for daytime naps if at all possible.

If I had the opportunity I would have done Nordic napping yes.

specialknickers Fri 22-Feb-13 12:43:41

This is pretty much standard all over Europe and used to be here too ( mum put us out in the pram in the 70s and I'm sure we weren't the only ones). I used to do it with ds sometimes, but only if the temperature was more than about 8 c. Used to calm him right down somehow and he'd sleep like a baby! I wasn't a fan though - although he was on a totally secure balcony, I couldn't really see or hear him and it made me a it anxious... But to each his own and all that.

honeytea Fri 22-Feb-13 12:44:01

I leave my baby to nap in his pram if we are out at friend's houses or I am out for coffee. I don't put him outside to nap at the moment because the balcony is full of snow and i like sleepy baby cuddles

We live in Sweden and it is normal here. Ds recently had RS virus and I asked the children's lung Dr what we should avoid, she said we should avoid smokers, crowds and toddlers, I asked her if we should keep him out of the cold and she said oh no, it is good for him to sleep outside!

I'm not sure if this link will work, but this is my DS asleep on a frozen lake. The only worry I have when I am out with him is that he gets too hot!

www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151291460811728&set=pcb.10151291462626728&type=1&theater

weegiemum Fri 22-Feb-13 12:54:14

Another Scottish mum. I don't think I was allowed indoors at all as a child.

All 3 of my dc were outside loads as toddlers, and often napped in the garden. We lived in the middle of nowhere. The main thing that stopped us going out was the midgies!

soupmaker Fri 22-Feb-13 12:57:37

Another Scot here who was left to nap outside in a pram in the 70s. At the time Concorde was being tested up and down the loch and I was able to sleep through sonic booms! Even when I could sit up and as a toddler I was left out to watch the world go by - was on a farm - and mum remembers hearing me squealing and finding me hanging be the reins trying to escape!

I often left DD asleep in her pram or pushchair at the backdoor even on cold days as she was always well wrapped up. I think fresh air is good for babies and kids.

OneLittleToddleTerror Fri 22-Feb-13 13:01:04

Did anyone see the picture in the article? The baby monitor shows three temperature 10C, 20C and 22C. It probably means inside all the layers it's at 20/22C. I don't think the clothes I buy from the supermarkets here keep my LO this warm outdoors. They must have very good cold weather gear in sweden.

thereistheball Fri 22-Feb-13 13:04:11

I do this with my twins. Our bedroom gives on to a balcony, so I can rest in bed with the window open and my head only inches away from them, though if you were looking at the balcony you'd think they'd been abandoned there. If it's very cold or rainy I leave them in the hall with the front door open. They were born 3 months early so I've had to be careful about taking them into crowded (germy) places, but I think the fresh air has done them a lot of good. We're at the stage now where often just putting on their padded pram suits is enough to send them to sleep.

babyboomersrock Fri 22-Feb-13 13:05:23

I put all four of mine out for naps in the 70s/80s, and they slept soundly for a couple of hours every day. I didn't put them out in fog but they were out in snow and frost.

In winter their clothes, shawls and blankets were wool; I swaddled them when they were tiny. My pram was a big Silver Cross, with high sides and a huge hood, so it was more like sleeping in a little room with the window open. They slept just outside the kitchen window and the moment they woke and moved, the pram would rock and I'd be out to pick them up. I kept the pram in the kitchen when they weren't sleeping so it was always well-aired and warmed through.

In general, babies had more fresh air in days gone by. We had no central heating - we had coal fires and a coal-fired Rayburn - and children were expected to be outdoors to avoid sharing germs.

Oh, and in summer, babies could still sleep outside, as long as there was shade. My pram had a large old-fashioned canopy, so the hood was laid almost flat - the canopy kept the sun off but allowed air to circulate. We lived in a rural village, surrounded by cats and wildlife, but I never heard of a baby being attacked.

babyboomersrock Fri 22-Feb-13 13:06:33

Oh, and I'm Scottish too!

SamraLee Fri 22-Feb-13 13:16:02

I don't see a problem with being outdoors or it being cold, the thing I have a problem with is leaving the baby alone. Aren't you "suppose" to keep your baby in the same room with you when they are sleeping until at least 6 months? If you want to let your baby nap outside and have her/him bundled and safe, more power to you, but I think you should be outside with her/him! I couldn't leave my baby alone...

babyboomersrock Fri 22-Feb-13 13:23:16

But when you keep your baby in the same room, do you mean you never move from their side? You never attend to the other children, or do housework? Go to the loo?

As I said, mine were outside my kitchen window; I positioned the pram so I could see them at all times. Since we had vast washings to do every day, I did spend a lot of time outside, hanging it out/taking it in, supervising the older children and doing a bit of gardening. It's not as if babies were abandoned alone and unheard for hours (though my mother did that with us...a sore point with me!).

ppeatfruit Fri 22-Feb-13 13:29:38

Exactly SamraLee Nor could I.

somewherewest Fri 22-Feb-13 13:33:27

DS was a winter baby who would only nap in a moving pram for the first six months, so we did a variation of Nordic napping by default. I don't know what effect it had on DS but DH and I lost about a stone each grin.

honeytea Fri 22-Feb-13 13:34:32

When my Ds sleeps outside I sit outside with him. This is very un swedish and the swedes think I am mad.

Once he is over 6 months I would leave him alone.

diddl Fri 22-Feb-13 13:41:26

Well I didn´t do it deliberately, but if they fell asleep in the pram I would leave them in it & put it in the garden rather than have to take layers off inside.

Maybe that's why they are sometimes also left outside shops?

magentastardust Fri 22-Feb-13 13:54:52

Another Scot here! My mum used to do this with all of us and I used to do it with Ds (now 9). Our Garden was enclosed and we had patio doors from the kitchen -I would be in the kitchen and DS would be the on the patio snuggled up after a walk so I could see and hear if he woke.
They always slept for much longer in the fresh air.

I did once have a panic about what if A cat got in the pram and slept on top of the baby so I stopped doing it and with my two daughters I only let them sleep in the pram outside on nice days when I was out in the Garden with the other children and right beside the pram.

I felt certain you'd be on this thread honeytea!

When DD2 was tiny she wasn't taking naps at scheduled times, so sometimes she fell asleep when out and about but that wasn't by design. I started letting her nap outside when she was older to be honest. That co-incided with us being in a house where I could see her from the window.

But as someone said earlier, the Swedes/Nordics do have better cold and wet-weather protection for both children and adults. It does cost a fortune. But it's worth it. Staying in because it's raining or cold just doesn't happen.

AmberSocks Fri 22-Feb-13 14:04:17

mine always sleep on me-or dh or someone-til they are about 2,i wouldnt put them down to nap on their own inside let alone outside.(not saying everyone should do it that way-i just like it and my babies always have too.

i do think a bit of fresh air is good for you but i dont see why you cat just go out for a walk.

Thumbwitch Fri 22-Feb-13 14:05:55

I wouldn't leave him outside a coffee shop, no - but I would leave him outside to nap in a back garden. My mum used to put me outside in the back garden for naps in my pram, all cosied up with a pram quilt.

Admittedly, I don't leave DS2 outside to nap here but that's because I don't have adequate mosquito protection for him and he'd be bitten to bits if I tried it (and it's not cold because it's Australia and this is summer). I really should get him a mosquito net tent, and then I could put him in that. When it gets cooler, that is (bastards never seem to die off! They're all year round where we live.)

honeytea Fri 22-Feb-13 14:07:37

I have found that in Sweden you can buy really cheap outdoor clothing from 2nd hand shops, I started the winter with nice posh polarn och pyret winter clothes for DS but because he has grown so fast is a hulking viking baby he has grown out of his nice winter clothes already. I went to the 2nd hand shop and bought 2 snow suits for a pound each, they are size 6-9 months but look unused as I guess the previous owner just lay in their pram wearing them.

StillStuck Fri 22-Feb-13 14:17:01

I did this, I guess. I thought it was pretty normal tbh until MIL came round and was shocked by it. DS would only settle to sleep in his pram, even when tiny, and I figured when he was all bundled up warm for me to walk him to sleep it actually made more sense to leave him outside if he was still asleep when we got back rather than bring him in and try and remove blankets / coats/ hats without waking him. we have very private and enclosed back garden and I would always be working / sorting things /mumsnettting/ by the big windows that looked out on him.

have always wondered why he doesn't get many illnesses, but doubt this is the reason really...

babyboomersrock Fri 22-Feb-13 14:25:37

"mine always sleep on me-or dh or someone-til they are about 2,i wouldnt put them down to nap on their own inside"

I guess your babies don't have two-hour naps then? Or you'd get nothing else done?

Of course when mine were very new, they'd nod off after - or during - breastfeeding, and I'd often lie there cudding them until they woke. But lying down for hours isn't an option when you have several children - I did have mine in slings around the house as well, but they slept much better outside once they were past the newborn stage.

I was lucky that mine were all summer babies, so quite robust by the time winter arrived.

shechameleon Fri 22-Feb-13 14:39:48

I left my two in the garden to sleep, never really thought twice about it, its what everyone round about here (Scottish) does. One a November baby and one September - they always slept for longer outside ;)
Also they were in a big silver cross pram so when they woke up you could see the pram move and go and get them, usually before they had even made a sound.

Meglet Fri 22-Feb-13 15:10:23

Both of my Polish neighbours do this. I heard the odd grizzle when one of the babies was small and wondered where it was coming from before I realised they were napping outside.

cory Fri 22-Feb-13 15:23:59

like honeytea said, second hand shops are a boon

that used to be the first thing I did every time I went home for Christmas, head straight down to the Salvation Army store for some proper winter gear

smellysocksandchickenpox Fri 22-Feb-13 15:30:55

I would do this if I had the right outside space. I have english family who do. Not outside coffee shops in the UK though, too many dangerous breed/ non worked working breed dogs in towns here IMO (dogs in areas where they are actually worked dont tend to bother me)

JenaiMorris Fri 22-Feb-13 15:50:16

Not so much the sub-zero temps bit but the leaving outside; everyone left their babies outside shops until the early 90s. A few high-profile baby snatchings put paid to that.

That photo pf the prams outside the care would have been commonplace here (had we had decent caffs in 1989 grin )

AmberSocks Fri 22-Feb-13 15:50:42

babyboomer yes they do,i dont mind sitting there for a couple of hours though,in fact it gives me a good excuse to have a rest!i have 4 under 5 by the way!

I only disturb them if i have to go out ad get the older ones from somewhere,older kids also happy to play in the garde,watch tv,be read a story or play between themselves,so its no bother really.

TheCatInTheHairnet Fri 22-Feb-13 16:13:57

Amber, you have 4 under 5 and you have time to sit down for two hours straight?!!! Wow! Mine would have murdered each other if I'd sat for two hours when DC4 was born!! grin

I let mine sleep outside too. DH is Scandinavian, so his mum would bring me a whole pile of winter clothes to keep them wrapped up.

babyboomersrock Fri 22-Feb-13 16:17:58

Amber, so you'd leave the older ones to play unsupervised in the garden? I'd find that more worrying (for me) than leaving a baby safely in a pram, in full view. I'm also not keen on television for little ones so that wouldn't have worked for mine.

I don't see how anyone can just sit for two hours with other young children around - and mine were also happy to play together for reasonable periods. What if one of the others needs the potty/loo/feeding? Two hours is a long time to wait.

We're all different though. I liked to get on with the boring stuff (cleaning/washing/cooking/baking) while the baby slept outside (safely, in view). I am not claiming that I never took my eyes off the baby's face - I also had to put toddlers on potties - but I would be watchful and aware.

When he/she woke up, we were free to go out walking or go to the park or whatever.

AmberSocks Fri 22-Feb-13 16:28:11

no we have big patio doors in our lounge looking on to the garden,i can see them at all times.

I dunno,i did say i wasnt saying anyone else should do it,its just what works for me,if my kids want me they come and see me,they all go to the toilet themselves without any trouble,and they rarely argue,so its fine.

Im not mad o housework as you probably guessed,i just do the important stuff like laundry,loading unloadig dishwasher,run the hoover round every day,i just keep the house running during the week if theres anything mega that needs doing dh or i do it at the weekend we we are both there.

smellysocksandchickenpox Fri 22-Feb-13 16:40:35

DS is napping on me, doesn't mean that DD is "unsupervised" hmm

Missgiraffe1 Fri 22-Feb-13 16:53:34

Yep, another Scottish one here & 9month old DS is currently napping in his pram in the back garden. I like to be able to see & hear him, so I sit in the kitchen & he is visible outside on the patio.
This is also the only time I ever get to sit down &relax with a cup of coffee, so everyone's a winner smile

Kiwiinkits Fri 22-Feb-13 16:54:12

Can someone enlighten me about WTF a cat would do to a baby left sleeping outside!? A fox I can understand, but a CAT!? Paranoid much....?

Kiwiinkits Fri 22-Feb-13 16:55:30

As for having a baby sleep on you for a two hour stretch...... baaah haaaa haaaa haaaa hhaa haaa haa My toddler would never in a million years let that happen! (and doesn't the baby get terrible quality, disturbed sleep?)

stargirl1701 Fri 22-Feb-13 16:56:45

I got flamed on MN when I asked about buying the Winter Kit for my pram so I could do this. grin

Want2bSupermum Fri 22-Feb-13 16:57:40

DH is Danish and my MIL is dead set against DD being outdoors and she is 18 months. Here in the US it is cold but the air is dry so, as long as it isn't windy, it doesn't feel as cold as it is. I will have a baby in my arms by Monday pm and he will be wrapped up outside for fresh air once I have recovered from the birth. The outdoor thermometer is telling me it is 28F right now which is -2C (it is midday here).

AmberSocks Fri 22-Feb-13 17:00:51

kiwi no,in fact because they get used to not being in a darkened room in total silence,they can sleep soundly anywhere which is very handy :-)

AmberSocks Fri 22-Feb-13 17:01:49

some people say cats are attracted to the milky smell of babies and can suffocate them,im not sure i believe it though.

babyboomersrock Fri 22-Feb-13 17:04:26

Our garden wasn't all visible from the house, so that makes a difference. Not boasting - the actual house was an ancient wreck, but all the village gardens were big. Toddlers would have disappeared behind hedges and trees!

I don't know if your comment was aimed at me, smellysocks, but of course you can supervise another child while you feed or hold one. I just couldn't see how a parent could leave several under-fives alone in the garden for an hour or two while the parent was sitting indoors with the baby.

I guess the other thing is that actual housework has changed. We had twin tub machines which needed constant attention, terry nappies, no dryers. Oh, and no dishwashers. Housework took a lot longer back then!

AmberSocks Fri 22-Feb-13 17:09:41

Lol if our garden had any way of escaping,trust me,my older 3 would of found it and be half way to the beach by now!

i use reusable nappies and wipes but i just chuck them in to wash before bed and hang them up in the morning,i have 5 to wear,5 in the wash and 5 drying!

dh wanted to buy a twin tub on ebay,he thought it looked charming, obviously didn't let him buy it!

pollypandemonium Fri 22-Feb-13 17:17:15

A bit of a sweeping generalisation to say that it's better for them to sleep outside, there must be grey areas. Not the most educational article I've read.

They sleep longer outside - that's probably because it's cold and their body is doing the sensible thing, staying safe and still.

They catch fewer colds - well they would because they are less exposed to other children. Cold immunity is built up by exposure to each cold virus and if they don't catch it now, they will catch it later.

Better to spend more time outside - risks of sun exposure should be considered.

All day outdoor nurseries - great if all your children need to do is bound around using their gross motor skills, but if they won't be able to grasp beads and pegs or pencils and develop their fine motor skills.

Nurseries are about learning and development through play but all days in a cold space will limit this. If children spend the rest of the evening having playing indoors that would be OK as there would be a balance.

smellysocksandchickenpox Fri 22-Feb-13 17:21:26

babyboom my washable nappies are all washed and drying already, I don't wash them every day, I do them every other day! Most kitchen/living areas open out to the garden - if it was a strange layout where the garden was quite removed from where you were being napped on then maybe....

Booyhoo Fri 22-Feb-13 17:31:17

is this really news?

mine are 7 and 3 and both went outside everyday for their naps, aswell as lots of walks. i saw someone one FB linking to this article saying something about the nordic way and 'no mollycoddling' (from a non parent) and i thought it was odd as it never occured to me that i was doing anything nordic by pushing the pram outside. it's hardly a revelation. i know my mum did it with me and hers before her. this isn't news.

Booyhoo Fri 22-Feb-13 17:44:32

as for cats or foxes? raincover.

TheBigJessie Fri 22-Feb-13 18:04:04

A raincover? I hope you don't keep rabbits or chickens then...

Excuse me, I'm just going to drape a raincover over a rabbit pen for the night. That'll protect them!

Booyhoo Fri 22-Feb-13 18:13:29

no i dont. and if i did i wouldn't keep them in a sodding pram at the back door in full view of me in the kitchen hmm

TheBigJessie Fri 22-Feb-13 18:17:43

Do you get the point I'm making? A raincover is designed to keep a baby dry. It is not designed to keep a hungry, intelligent animal with sharp teeth out!

Suggesting a plastic raincover to keep foxes out is ridiculous.

babyboomersrock Fri 22-Feb-13 18:19:01

smellysocks - much of the garden could be seen from the house, and did lead out from the kitchen, but it went all round the house and the boundaries were hidden from view by trees and hedges. You certainly couldn't have sat in one spot and kept an eye on all of it.

We had to wash terry squares every day - I suspect they weren't so thick as modern reusables - plus muslin liners. Since twin tubs didn't do a boil wash, you also had to use a nappy boiler or soak all nappies in a sterilising fluid first. I know it sounds strange, but we didn't actually have enough spare clothes to leave the washing for two days. Many clothes needed to be hand washed too.

It's just different times. I'm certainly not advocating going back to them!

As for outdoor nurseries; I don't imagine the children spend all day running, jumping and hauling logs. Fine motor skills are also required for picking up small leaves and berries.

JenaiMorris Fri 22-Feb-13 18:21:00

I got the impression from the fox attack threads that London foxes are different but for the rest of us, the idea that a fox might have a go at one's baby whilst it's in its pram wouldn't even occur to us.

It's not as if people are talking about leaving an unattended baby overnight on the common, is it?

TheBigJessie Fri 22-Feb-13 18:22:10

My Mother-in-law's cat was scared of my babies, but loved the pram. smile So she used to scrape the catnet off when it was empty, in order to sleep in there herself.

And that was designed to keep animals out. Raincover? No problem!

AmberSocks Fri 22-Feb-13 18:23:02

Its funny really because these days we have things so much easier i that sese(housekeeping)and we usually have less children to care for,but people seem to complain more!

TheBigJessie Fri 22-Feb-13 18:24:23

I don't live in London. I do, however, live in a urban conurbation. With foxes. If you don't get the children's rabbits in at night, you will have a bloody mess to clear up while you come to terms with being a fucking idiot.

AmberSocks Fri 22-Feb-13 18:25:04

Even though i agree with what jessie is saying,most of the people o this thread have said they leave them outside where they can see them,i dot see anything wrong with that,although i dont see the point of it and i wouldnt do it myself.I think aslong as you can see them at all times its ok.

JenaiMorris Fri 22-Feb-13 18:29:12

Leaving your rabbits out overnight is nothing like leaving a baby out on the patio! Rabbits are going to get eaten by something, babies generally aren't.

Booyhoo Fri 22-Feb-13 18:29:21

all prams should be fitted with chicken wire.

JenaiMorris Fri 22-Feb-13 18:31:14

I had a bird scarer fitted to mine. Rather defeated the leaving them outside for a snooze object though wink

TheBigJessie Fri 22-Feb-13 18:34:04

leave them outside where they can see them,i dot see anything wrong with that,although i dont see the point of it and i wouldnt do it myself.I think aslong as you can see them at all times its ok.

True. But why would you do that to yourself? That twenty minutes of peace during a nap is important! Wouldn't it be better to leave them somewhere indoors where you didn't need to watch them, and actually do one of the many, many, many things you hadn't been able to do all day?

<puzzled>

TheBigJessie Fri 22-Feb-13 18:35:37

Anyway, you think I'm mad? Was on a forum last week where a guy advocated killing all British birds of prey in case they took scottie dogs.

5madthings Fri 22-Feb-13 18:43:23

Mine have slelt outside sometimes, eso with older ones the baby got a better nap.outside where it was quieter! They also slept on me or in the house, it just depended what we were doing. I really dont yhink there are lots if foxes out there just waiting for you to leave your baby alone so they can pounce on it. I just put them in the pram, wrapped up warm and raincovet if needed. The covet on a bugaboo is a pita to get on and off and really sturdy, mine is 8 yrs old and good as new. I can keep am eye on sleeping child fro. Kitchen and dining rm window as they are on the driveway right out the front of my house.

prettybird Fri 22-Feb-13 18:43:48

I live in an urban area with lots of urban foxes. Lots of cats too (two of which are ours).

Still wouldn't feel uncomfortable leaving a baby out during the day (and did so when ds was a baby). At night/in the dark would be a different matter.

But we all make different assessments of different risks, 'cos we are the only ones who can judge what feels right for us

TheBigJessie Fri 22-Feb-13 18:50:46

True. I suppose the real problem is I just get irritated by Ostentatious Relaxed Parenting. It seems like thinly disguised Wound-Tighter-Than-A-Bobbin-of-Cotton type Evangelical Parenting.

JenaiMorris Fri 22-Feb-13 18:55:09

Leaving a baby to snooze in their pram in the garden is hardly ostentatiously relaxed, Jessie.

JenaiMorris Fri 22-Feb-13 18:55:32

Although I get your irritation.

drmummmsy Fri 22-Feb-13 18:56:25

don't people get flamed on here frequently for seeing/leaving babies out/mil's suggesting it???

honeytea Fri 22-Feb-13 18:56:45

I will let my ds sleep outside in a place i can't see once he is over 6 months, the reason I don't now is because I worry about cot death rather than worrying about baby snatching or fox mauling (or wolf/bear/wild pig/wolverine/lynx mauling in Sweden)

My mother has a guenuine concern that ds will get eaten by a bear whilst sleeping outside in Sweden. We live on the 5th floor, it would have to be a very agile or flying bear.

People don't seem to worry about child snatching in sweden. The schools don't have fences around them, there is no check when you walk into a school. All you have to do to take a child home is tick their name off a list, you don't even have to say hi to the teacher often.

Booyhoo Fri 22-Feb-13 19:01:14

i wasn't being evangelical. someone mentioned foxes and cats (was it you? i dont know) and i just said raincover as that's what i would do if i was concerned about cats or foxes getting at the baby. i'm not saying a raincover would win a fight against a starving fox but it's certainly going to stall the fox and in my situation i would have definitely seen/heard the fox trying to get the raincover off or tearing it so would have been out there before it got near the baby. i wasn't saying it's safe to leave your baby by the mouth of a fox's den (is that the word?) overnight with only a raincover for protection.

JenaiMorris Fri 22-Feb-13 19:04:31

Haha honey - bears and wolves crossed my mind when the terrifying prospect of foxes and moggies was mentioned. grin

And yes drmum MILs are the devil - didn't you know? wink

5madthings Fri 22-Feb-13 19:06:06

Lol at flying bears honey

babyboomersrock Fri 22-Feb-13 19:13:58

I'm just smiling - wryly - at the idea of my being a Relaxed Parent. I did put my babies outside to sleep, but I'm a big worrier. I rarely took my eyes off mine when they were small, and I'm the same with my grandson.

Incidentally, I'd never put him (grandson) in the garden to sleep when I'm looking after him - because a) his parents don't do it and b) his pram is too flimsy to be warm enough.

giraffesCantFlipPancakes Fri 22-Feb-13 19:16:17

I often snuggle kids up in very warm clothes, blankets etc and go out for a long walk while they nap, similar I guess.

TheBigJessie Fri 22-Feb-13 19:17:55

It's going to be the subject of some rentagob celebrity's next article, I know it. All about her superior parenting, and how she was never stiflingly clingy.

Perhaps Katie Hopkins could do it? Staggering hypocrisy hasn't been a problem thus far. grin

It will become this trendy, apparently new, controversial thing. Sorry, I mean, on-trend, naturally. It's already got a fancy alliterative name, coined by some journalist. It's not Nordic Napping. It's the baby sleeping in the pram, while the pram is outside! The whole reason people buy prams is in order to take the baby outside, in the first place.

<And breathe>

Oh, and another thing. Oi, give me my PC back! I had a rhythm going!

CheerfulYank Fri 22-Feb-13 19:19:03

The first temp mentioned (-5C) isn't really that cold! That's what it is today and DS and I have been out and about all day.

I never left him to sleep outside as it just didn't occur to me, but I always brought him out in all weathers.

recall Fri 22-Feb-13 19:19:31

Mum said her GP told her to do it when I was a Baby, and her MW said don't. She would shove me out when he was due to call, and then quickly bring me in for when the MW arrived grin

CheerfulYank Fri 22-Feb-13 19:21:03

But then again my dad made us bundle up and go play in -30 and 40, so my perception may be skewed. smile

sapphirestar Fri 22-Feb-13 19:21:58

DDs nursery does this with the younger children. I was horrified when it was first mentioned to me, even though I could see the logic in it. After picking her up a few times seeing her properly snuggled and toasty warm fast asleep in one of those old fashioned prams, it didn't bother me. She always slept well in the fresh air, this was also the awful 2009/2010 winter that someone else mentioned.
This was in a secure area that only staff can get to though, I would never have just stuck her outside in my back garden!

LondonBus Fri 22-Feb-13 19:23:28

My mother strongly believed I should put DS1 outside in his pram for a nap when he was a new born. She told me all her babies had slept outside for naps. (They were all summer born babies, though by the time winter came, they would have been 6 months)

She used to get DS1 and stick his head out of the window so he could experience fresh air. hmm I did used to take him for walks in the park, ect - if you're out walkingfor 1.30 hrs, it's the same as leaving a baby outside in the gardenfor that long I suppose, but it's not something I would do.

TheBigJessie Fri 22-Feb-13 19:34:52

i wasn't being evangelical. someone mentioned foxes and cats (was it you? i dont know) and i just said raincover as that's what i would do if i was concerned about cats or foxes getting at the baby. i'm not saying a raincover would win a fight against a starving fox but it's certainly going to stall the fox and in my situation i would have definitely seen/heard the fox trying to get the raincover off or tearing it so would have been out there before it got near the baby. i wasn't saying it's safe to leave your baby by the mouth of a fox's den (is that the word?) overnight with only a raincover for protection.

I don't think you're ostentatious. smile however, I will be watching and if I see a lifestyle piece on parenting with your name as the byline, I'll... Whinge on the internet some more, just you see if I don't!

Foxes could have been me. I distinctly remember wowing that I would swear at anyone who asked me about "Nordic Naps" and I probably said so in the thread. (For fox's sake, it's like people calling me a baby wearer! It's a. Baby. In. A. Sling.) And yeah, it's a foxes' den.

SamraLee Fri 22-Feb-13 19:37:33

I also have a daughter that sleeps on me for two hour stretches, however I do not have any other children. My daughter tends to get better sleep when she is with me because if she starts to wake up, I can quickly soothe her back to sleep. Even if you can see your baby, can you hear them and respond to them quickly? If my baby was in the room with me and flipped over or stopped breathing I would notice much faster with her being in the room with me. I can (and do) check on her every few minutes. I'm a bit of a nervous person though and perhaps if I have more children I will be more at ease with doing things I wouldn't consider doing now.

TheBigJessie Fri 22-Feb-13 19:38:43

*evangelical

*vowing.

As you were.

shockers Fri 22-Feb-13 19:43:51

I sleep much better with the window open, even in winter, so I imagine that children sleep better with fresh air too.

Booyhoo Fri 22-Feb-13 19:44:13

grin

<scraps lifestyle piece on ostentatious new trend of cuddling babies in with mother fox for a good night's sleep>

SoggySummer Fri 22-Feb-13 19:45:15

We used to live in the Scottish Highlands and I recall being advised by my Dr and HV to put baby outside for a nap. I did this daily summer/winter (not in the wet though). DD would be wrapped up warm and put out in the back garden in her pram for her nap. I used to then keep an eye out the kitchen window whilst I prepared the evening meal or ironed or something else.

shockers Fri 22-Feb-13 19:46:15

A foxes' den is called an 'earth' btw!

Jux Fri 22-Feb-13 19:47:06

Standard practice for centuries. My mum did it with us, her mum did it with her and her siblings, goes back generations.

Nothing Swedish about it.

TheBigJessie Fri 22-Feb-13 19:50:17

Shockers I stand corrected!

shockers Fri 22-Feb-13 19:52:22

I only know because it was in a baby picture book the DCs had grin.

JenaiMorris Fri 22-Feb-13 19:52:25

I'm feeling quite broody now.

I could happily sit here with a baby snoozing on me. I suspect I'm looking at the past through rose tinted spex though...

<reprimands aged ovaries for daring to twitch> wink

ssaw2012 Fri 22-Feb-13 19:54:32

The parents put sensible clothes on their children. I have hardly ever seen babies wearing hwts in cold or windy weather here.

Booyhoo Fri 22-Feb-13 19:57:50

me too jenais! i loved those early days with long walks with the pram and cosy cuddles while older ds was at school.

thegreylady Fri 22-Feb-13 20:28:20

We were always told to put our babies ouside in all weathers.[70's] As long as baby was well wrapped up and protected from rain/wind/sun they had their naps outside.I brought mine in if it was raining but most didn't.

JenaiMorris Fri 22-Feb-13 20:53:48

hang on a minute grey - there were no raincovers in the 70s.

All those rainsoaked babies! <casts eye o>ver fellow 70s borns

JenaiMorris Fri 22-Feb-13 20:54:51

The > is in the wring place

pished

Katla Fri 22-Feb-13 21:21:27

I do this with my baby (4.5 months) as she sleeps far longer outside than she does inside the house. I wrap her up really cosy, put the plastic rain cover to keep the wind off her and watch her out the kitchen window so I can hear her and get her in when she wakes up. She has warm clothes on, a sheepskin underneath, a fleecy sleeping bag and a blanket too so she's nice and cosy.

I live out in the country though so we don't have any passers by/ neighbours - otherwise I'd be worried about her being kidnapped!

Perriwinkle Fri 22-Feb-13 21:33:52

Someone I work with has a daughter who is married to a Norwegian and lives in Norway. She was telling me that their baby sleeps in a freezing cold room and it's considered totally normal over there.

Fleecyslippers Fri 22-Feb-13 21:54:48

DDs first nursery was in an old mansion house with a huge lean too at the back beside the kitchen. They had a collection of old solver cross prams and allt he baies were wrapped up outside for sleep time all year round. i was more impressed by how they got them all to sleep at the same time than worrying about the temperature.
My aunt also looks after her grand daughter during the day and puts her out for a nap in an old silver cross int eh garage with the doors wide open.

prettybird Fri 22-Feb-13 22:02:56

In the big old prams you didn't need raincovers: you just turned the pram away from the prevailing wind! grin

As a 60s baby, I can also remember prams being left outside shops.

iwantanafternoonnap Fri 22-Feb-13 22:04:59

The house I lived in when DS was first born was fecking freezing. He napped well and slept through the night from 8 weeks. We have also gone camping and when everyone has moaned about it being freezing at night my DS has slept like a log until gone 9am! At home he would have been awake at 6.

The central heating is not on in my house at night and not on at all in the bedrooms. I can't sleep in rooms with heat!

soupmaker Fri 22-Feb-13 22:06:13

I was put in a shed when it was lashing down!

Wingdingdong Fri 22-Feb-13 22:09:31

I'd never have left DC outside in the buggy (London here too) but 3yo DD had most of her naps in the buggy and therefore outside. Reflux didn't give much option! But once she was asleep I'd find a cafe in the park and sit outside with her.

However, having just found out that ave pollution levels here are 2.7 times recommended adult maximum I am wondering whether I unwittingly contributed to her asthma.

tiggytape Fri 22-Feb-13 22:42:15

DS had croup as a baby and had to be hospitalised a couple of times. The Dr there told us never to heat bedrooms (I never do anyway) and to keep the window open at night even if the temperature was below zero. He said babies with croup are often totally better by the time they get to the hospital because a hit of cold air as they're put in the car to seek treatment really helps.
As long as they're wrapped up well enough (but not overheated with young babies) then it is good to sleep like that - cold room, warm bed.

magentastardust Fri 22-Feb-13 23:04:48

It was me that mentioned the Cat! I didn't think it was that ridiculous or that I was being over paranoid -a cat can be attracted to the heat of the baby -my friends cat always tried to get in her babies pram. I think it would be quite unlikely a cat would suffocate a baby but it was more a scratch or lick I was thinking about.
It wasn't an issue I just made sure I was at patio or in the garden with the baby.

I've never been called a paranoid mother before - I thought I was pretty laid back!

Missgiraffe1 Fri 22-Feb-13 23:05:55

I am loving the digression on this thread (rabbits... Flying bears) grin
To be perfectly honest, I've never given it a second thought whether what I do (let Ds sleep outside in pram if we've been out walking &he seems tired, or if it is simply a nice way to get him some fresh air on an otherwise boring house-bound day) should be categorised/named/flamed and I REALLY do not understand why some people have issues with a child napping in the safety of his/her own (private & enclosed) back garden under the watchful eye of a parent.
Someone mentioned 'survival instinct' being the reason for sleeping so well???? grin grin grin
(Aren't small children notoriously good at letting you know when they're not happy????)

melrose Fri 22-Feb-13 23:15:18

Have slept all 3 of mine outside in the pram and later buggy for naps, and in all weathers. Quick spin round the block and then parked outside the back door, all wrapped up and snuggly. Still do it with dd who is 19 months. None of them have ever napped in the cot in the day, but slept well at night. Think fresh air is good for them and all very healthy nod robust so don't think it scarred them.

babyboomersrock Fri 22-Feb-13 23:19:44

"hang on a minute grey - there were no raincovers in the 70s" - ha, not only were there rain covers (aprons, they were called) but the fabric was robust and completely waterproof so when it rained, you'd get a little puddle on top, over where the baby's legs were.

My older babies used to love sitting up in the pram while we walked in the rain, splashing their hands in the pram puddle!

If it was truly Baltic, you'd just fasten the top part of the apron up against the hood - you had a cosy baby who could still see out over the top, but who remained warm and dry (unlike his poor Ma).

prettybird Fri 22-Feb-13 23:30:19

Have to say the two cats I had when ds was a baby (both Siamese and very "people" cats who never put their claws out) never wanted to be anywhere near ds as a baby. They would positively avoid him.

On the other hand, one of our current pair (still both Siamese), I had to warn my downstairs neighbour, when she had her baby, that he had a tendency to sleep on your head, so not to be too welcoming to him (we share the garden). He's older now and doesn't do it any more but at the time he was only about 6 months old.

Oh, excellent, let me smugly jump on the bandwagon of another parenting craze.

If 22mo DS happens to fall asleep when we are out, but I want to come in, I always leave him in the back garden and watch him through the patio door. It never struck me as unusual and I have been doing that since he was about 6mo (summer baby). Undressing him always wakes him up, leaving him in his coat means that within 3 minutes of being inside he wakes up a sweaty, crying mess. In the garden he will sleep as well as he does in his cot and wakes up happy. I have no idea if it prevents colds, I would say that he gets an average number of those, but recovers quickly and never has antibiotics. Then again, he has always been robust. <unhelpful and smug>

ukulelelady Sat 23-Feb-13 00:25:51

I don't put my baby outside to nap but if he falls asleep in his pram when we are out and I come home. He stays put outside, where I can still keep an eye on him and he sleeps longer than the days where he has a nap indoors.
It's funny though, in autumn on a beautiful crisp day we'd walked to a friends house to visit her and her baby, where we were constantly being judged for leaving him on her porch in full view of her French windows. She couldn't rest and she made me feel like a bad mother for it. She was the one all fretful though and I got 5 minutes peace to have a cup of tea though.

SquidgyMummy Sat 23-Feb-13 04:48:48

We live in France, not sure if it is a french thing but i did it with DS (2.4) after I remembered a friend told me about her Danish SIL doing it.

DS was born end of October and it was the only way of making sure he got more than and hour of fresh air a day. Wrapped up DS in 4 layers - including a hooded furry all in one plus blankets for his walk, then he nodded off and i left him on the verandah and i sat inside on the sofa snoozing watching him through the french windows. He easily slept for 3 hours. In the summer he would sleep outside most days, till his naps became erratic and has almost dropped them

mathanxiety Sat 23-Feb-13 06:17:54

I remember seeing an article a few years ago about a Danish couple arrested or in some way getting majorly negative attention from the New York Police for parking their baby outside a restaurant or cafe in NY. I recall hordes of prams left outside all the shops, the post office and the pub in the Dublin suburb I grew up in and wondered what the NYPD would have made of it.

Broodzilla Sat 23-Feb-13 07:15:35

Both my DCs are Nordic nappers, but then they're half Nordic smile when DS was little, we lived in England and I used to sit outside with him (had shared access and other issues with safety in the back garden).

Like Honeytea, I did worry about the "being in the same room for the first 6 months" so although DD was born over here, I've sat outside with her too (no safety issues otherwise, we live out in the country) when she was under 6 mos. In fact, I still do sometimes, nice to sit and read outside. grin

Don't see why this has anything to do with CC... If they're not asleep by the time they're dressed (it's a bit of a process...) then they fall asleep within minutes of jiggling the pram or walking around - if I feel like it, I combine naptime with a workout and take them for a walk.

They do sleep longer outside, not sure about the virus-resistance, but I'm sure they're not MORE ill for sleeping outside IYSWIM.

Whoever worried about the babies being cold - really, really not an issue: they wear thermal underwear, a woolly layer (like a knitted sleepsuit), a snowsuit and a sleepingbag. If anything, I worry about DD getting too hot!

MIL thinks it's neglect though, and tells us birds might go for their eyes etc... confused

Also, whoever said the babies must be cold:

Thumbwitch Sat 23-Feb-13 07:20:09

I have seen a cat jump into a pram - we were all sitting out in the garden, baby lying flat in a pram, and the family cat jumped in and started to lie down in the warm cosy pram area - of course, this took him far too close to the baby's head, and there was the possibility he could have smothered him. Mum of the baby went ballistic - she had cat covers on order but they hadn't arrived yet - and the cat went home with a friend that night.
I know that the old story was that cat's could "suck baby's breath" but I think that is probably a load of tosh - more likely that they'd lie on their faces/too close to their faces and potentially smother or scratch them.

Broodzilla Sat 23-Feb-13 07:24:10

meant to say, re CC: we have babymonitors over here too, you know... No different to have them sleeping on the patio with a monitor, than sleeping on a different floor indoors with a monitor?

cuppateaanyone Sat 23-Feb-13 07:33:34

My mum did this with both me and my sister, especially in winter...she was from Yorkshire and said it was normal. I would have done it but for living on the second floor with no hard garden.

Matildaduck Sat 23-Feb-13 08:14:21

Mine slept outdoor a lot. Everyday for the first year. They were well wrapped up and the dog watched them outside the patio window. When it was snowing they had a hot water bottle in the pram ( old silver cross) We live in the country. Mil was concerned about child napping. I might have laughed at her.

Both very very healthy very few illnesses.

I thought everyone did this confused I did, and all my friends did. Scottish too.

johnworf Sat 23-Feb-13 08:50:52

All my children used to go outside the back door for their naps in their pram. I had a silver cross pram which used to have a rain cover (for when it was raining, natch) and a cat net when the weather was fine. Never had a problem with cats getting in.

The only weather I didn't put them outside in was fog - not sure why ...it was something my mum told me. We all went out in our prams too during the 1960's.

I think as long as the baby is well wrapped up then they'll be fine.

Common Sat 23-Feb-13 08:59:19

Fresh air is good for children.

Dress them well and get them used to outdoor activity, besides it is excellent preparation for the joy of family camping trips!

soupmaker Sat 23-Feb-13 09:36:46

This thread is fascinating. Seems to be loads of us Scots who not only 'Nordic napped' as babies but followed suit with our own. As an aside my DD has also always slept in a cold bedroom with the window open for fresh air even in the depth of winter. I can't stand not having a window open in our bedroom. Probably the result of being brought up in a farmhouse with no central heating and only an open fire in the kitchen. I remember ice on the inside of the window!!!!

honeytea Sat 23-Feb-13 09:37:58

Matildaduck I love the idea of the family dog watching the baby out of the window! I am going to suggest we buy a dog I want one anyway instead of a baby monitor when the time comes to buy one smile

AmberSocks Sat 23-Feb-13 09:53:20

see we are the opposite,we all sleep naked(kids with nappies or pants on,sometimes vests)and have the house as warm as we can/like it,id rather have no clothes on in a warm room than wrapped up in a cold room.

SausageSmuggler Sat 23-Feb-13 09:58:38

I do this with DD quite a bit. She sleeps best in her buggy, always has done. A few of my friends (and MIL) were a bit shocked but we're lucky that we have a secure garden and I can push the buggy up to the patio doors so can always see her. I also bundle her up warm and normally put the rain cover on just in case of a surprise shower, which has happened on a couple of occasions. I've no idea about the health benefits all I know is she sleeps better.

PotPourri Sat 23-Feb-13 10:31:16

I'm struggling to understand why you wouldn't to be honest- if it suits you. You would happily walk round town with your baby snuggled in their pram.

People get in such a twist about doing what is right, what the evidence says is correct etc. Do what works for you, because it works for you I say

Abigail9580 Sat 23-Feb-13 10:48:05

I'm a farmers wife and so my DS has to spend most of the day outside as that's were I'm needed. He always sleeps well, we wrap him up in a pram suit and a sleeping bag, plus I have some lovely wool clothes that my aunt knitted specially and they keep him so much warmer then anything else. Tbh when he is cross inside all you have to do is take him outside and he is so much happier. And he has only had one bug on the 6 m he's been around. I don't think I'd leave him outside a coffee shop though, there are so bad people out there which is sad, would be great if it was like Sweden.

cory Sat 23-Feb-13 11:02:00

I had a raincover on my doll's pram in the late 60s.

JenaiMorris Sat 23-Feb-13 11:02:40

envy cory

LindaMcCartneySausage Sat 23-Feb-13 13:16:42

It seems that Scotland must be a Nordic country, judging by all the posts from pro-Nordic Napping Scots grin. My SIL emailed me the BBC link this morning and said - tongue in cheek - that maybe I should put DS outside for his naps in all weathers. I already do! confused. She was shocked!

amck5700 Sat 23-Feb-13 14:38:19

Another Scot who slept outside in all weathers, did the same with the kids as did the childminder - i used to pick up my son and swipe the snow of the pram to take him home grin

He slept on a sheepskin and in the winter would be wrapped up in his snow suit and blankets - with just his wee nose sticking out.

Always been good sleepers and are now 11 and 12 and they haven't had more than 5 days off school/nursery in their lives. No absences since they were 6. No2 son is slightly less robust but still healthier than the majority of his classmates.

AuldAlliance Sat 23-Feb-13 16:18:00

My mum certainly put us out in the garden for naps in summer as I can remember playing around my little brother's pram. That was Edinburgh "summer," so hardly very warm.
She may have done it to us older ones in winter, I don't know as we moved house when he was a baby to somewhere the garden wasn't visible from inside, so I only remember that one summer.

She had a white nylon-y mesh cover with elasticated sides that she put over the pram "to keep cats off". We played brides with it, used it as a veil...
<<comes over all nostalgic>>

honeytea Sat 23-Feb-13 17:10:00

Abigail I think that unfortunately there are as many bad people in Sweden it is just they view risk very differently. The chance of a baby being stolen from outside a shop or abducted from a school is a possibility but very unlikely. The risk of a baby/child being killed in a car crash is much more likely, all car seats are rear facing well into childhood and most families drive nice robust cars volvos personally I feel their attitude to risk taking is very healthy.

Ds did some extreme Nordic napping today, he slept in his pulka (sledge) whilst we went ice skating on the lake, he slept the entire way and missed all the fun poor baby!

amck5700 Sat 23-Feb-13 17:11:59

lol Auld - we were brought up in various flats in Edinburgh until I was about 1. We were all put outside irrespective of whether we could be seen or not - with the cat net in place smile

Also got left outside shops etc. Mum once went home and was putting the messages away and generally tidying round when she suddenly remembered that she'd taken a baby with her to the shops and that she didn't have one now. Whichever of my siblings or I that it was was still out for the count outside the drysalters smile

LindaMcCartneySausage Sat 23-Feb-13 17:23:46

I was certainly left outside shops all the time in 1970's Scotland. parents didn't have a car and the silver cross monster pram probably didn't fit through the door of the butchers. DM joked that if anyone stole me, they'd bring me back again pretty quick - apparently, I was a reflux baby who never stopped greetin'.

God, I remember the cat net - it used to be the veil in my dressing up box. I was always the bride and my - younger - sisters relegated to my bridesmaids

Another one who used to leave DS out for a snooze at 6 months plus. He always fell asleep in the snuggly pram out for walks so I used to leave him facing the back door with the door open while I cleared up or prepped dinner. We lived in the middle of nowhere. He slept well.

He is 8 next week and has had 4 days sick off school in his life, and that was due to nettle rash. However I always put that down to him catching everything in his sweaty overheated nursery full of runny nosed toddlers sneezing over each other in the earlier years. grin

Now I'm in Switzerland I notice that every morning in Winter as I go to work, the Hausfrauen in the Street fling the bedroom doors and windows wide and hang out the duvets for a good airing. Children are outside as long as it's not a full on snowstorm. Fresh air is a tonic here.

I think the situation in the Nordics and here with darkness for hours during the day, and the depression that is associated with it means that you maximize what you can get. I see perfect sense in it, as long as the baby has correct clothing and robust pram etc. That said the atmosphere is dry, as opposed to putting the baby outside in the damp fret in Wales for example. Dampness seems to soak through everything......

seengooddays Sat 23-Feb-13 17:42:02

I'm old. I had 5 Dcs and a big coach built pram.
All of them slept outside for all their day time naps from birth onwards.{70/80's]
Totally normal to see the big prams in peoples' gardens.
In very cold weather a hot water bottle was put in first to warm the pram.
All of them slept very well.
The prams were always left outside the shops. Infact Woolworth's had a sign to say no prams allowed inside! They were too big.
The steel bodied prams were very solid and waterproof not quite like todays.

FrankWippery Sat 23-Feb-13 17:51:57

I have very vague memories of being out in the pram in Lossiemouth when I was around 2; and I absolutely remember my younger siblings having their naps outside wherever we lived (forces family), whether it was snowing or spring time and everything else in between.

My children (19, 18, 16 and 4) all had their naps outside too, though DD3 couldn't sometimes as it was simply too hot where we lived when she was small.

Anyone from the 70's probably remembers this.....

www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WlSKa-XSpQ&feature=youtube_gdata_player

grin shock

lorisparkle Sat 23-Feb-13 21:04:47

Because DS3's first nap of the morning coincided with the school run I would put him in the pushchair as soon as he was ready and discovered that the pushchair was the only place he would fall asleep by himself without crying. As life was busy with DS1 and DS2 being able to put DS3 somewhere to go to sleep where he was happy and safe and did not cry or need to be rocked etc was a bonus so DS3 had all his naps outside in the pushchair come rain, sun, snow, etc! He was always warm enough, was positioned where I could see him and hear him, was in the back garden which was locked and had a rain/cat cover. The inlaws thought I was a lunatic but it meant that life with a 4 year old, 2 year old and baby was so much easier.

popsgran Sun 24-Feb-13 08:12:26

my mother told me similar tales of my upbringing.( born 1944 )As there was no central heating it was very little warmer indoors.I remember awful colds,blocked sinuses, chillblains.But we did wear vests!My mother said she would knock the snow off the pram.Happy days

WillowTrees Sun 24-Feb-13 10:47:15

Made it to the Norwegian press: http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/Britene-forundret-over-utesoving-7129101.html
Whilst this is normal in Norway, they also acknowledge some are against it, and refer to a doctor who advises that if children have ear or lung problems they should sleep inside.
I was pretty uncomfortable with babies sleeping outside at daycare on the really cold days, luckily we had a lovely Italian lady who gave extra blankets to snuggle up with! Also at the baby friendly cafes, there would sometimes be 15 prams lined up outside with baby monitors blinking while the mums sat all cozy inside with their coffees, I took my baby inside smile
I'm all for fresh air, but as for a nap, I'd rather be inside, so prefer my baby to be inside too, but it's a cultural thing.
We're in Sydney now, but talking about moving back to Norway, I told my 7 yo that Norwegian kids play outside when it's pouring with rain, she was horrified! A nice sunny cold day is one thing, but rain is pretty miserable.
polly made very good points earlier.

QOD Sun 24-Feb-13 10:51:46

My Norwegian family leave theirs outside in prams, robust bunch!! Several broken bones each though from the skiing and sledding!

johnworf Sun 24-Feb-13 13:17:26

binfullofmaggotsonthe45 I don't remember that public information film but I did have one of these seats. It was in the early 1990's and I suspect I was most unfashionable. ::shrugs::

It's not just a Scottish thing. My mother left me and my brother outside as a baby in London and it was very common to do so. She used to put a cat net over the pram as I think at the time there were stories of babies being killed by being smothered by cats who sat on them. How often that happened i don't know but it was was a big concern back then - probably not surprising in an urban area where there were likely to be more cats. I know on one occasion my mother resorted to putting me at then end of the garden because I wouldn't stop crying (not a usual thing to do) and it apparently worked a treat but maybe I just cried it out!

However, after a few cases of babies being snatched, it became less common for children to be left in the street at least. I think in built up cities there was also concerns because streets got busier, shops got bigger, so more difficult to nip in and nip out as well as prams and pushchairs being less like moving beds and more flimsey so people stick to putting their children outside in their back gardens so you never see it these days. I don't think that means it doesn't happen. I've done it and I am down south. Not often, but certainly if the opportunity presented itself and I could stay where I could see or hear DC then I did.

I assume that it is healthier for children not because of the fresh air but because you aren't couped up with other people and in breathing distance of their germs. Probably easier for those in a colder climate to do it as you don't have to worry about sun protection and finding or staying in the shade as you would in a hot country. That would be more of a concern for me I think.

gloucestergirl Sun 24-Feb-13 16:46:11

I live in sweden and find this a bit baffling. They are the most allergic suseptible-to-illness people ever! There is a law saying that the first day of sickness from work will not be paid for to discourage people ringing in sick - but they still do in spades. If this is supposed to good for health, god only knows what they would be like without it.

I thought that nowadays it was a practically thing. Babies are so wrapped up against the cold that you don't want to wake them up when going for a coffee. Going from minus god knows what into over 20 degrees.

In the olden days I heard that it was because the air was so dirty from a burning fire and little or no ventilation.

John how funny, that's one of my earliest memories, my big DB sat in one of those on top of our SilverCross pram and getting quite irritated because he blocked the view. smile

ppeatfruit Sun 24-Feb-13 17:31:14

Funny about the swedes being ill all the time maybe its the dairy food that they are supposed to love. But in the 'olden' days gloucestergirl with the fogs and filthy coal fired chimneys in towns the outside was worse !!

Nowadays its the traffic fumes, cats (which like sitting in warm places) and bleedin' urban foxes you can't win can you?

dikkertjedap Sun 24-Feb-13 17:35:45

Haven't read the whole thread, but as far as I am aware there is no evidence whatsoever that there are health benefits from napping outside in cold weather.

This article actually suggests that it may be more due to custom and for convenience rather than health benefits.

diddl Sun 24-Feb-13 17:41:42

I think it was a common thing to do-put the pram outside-out of the way?-and get on with stuff.

I don´t think that it was unusual tbh.

Then I think that that evolved to leaving the pram outside if baby asleep rather than deliberately putting it out everyday.

I think a lot of people would try to get out for a walk everyday for "fresh air" for themselves/baby/toddler...

Turf a youngster out to play unless damp!

redrubyshoes Sun 24-Feb-13 18:35:27

Yep I did it when I lived in Finland. They were bundled up in a snowsuit with hat, gloves and a sheepskin under them and the hood up on the pram. They slept like logs with little rosy cheeks and were toasty warm inside.

I also noticed there was no 'crying, whiney wake up' just a dozy awakening and hungry. They slept half an hour longer on average as well.

I used to sometimes sweep the snow off the pram at the end of their nap.

Loved it.

merryberry Sun 24-Feb-13 18:35:51

oh, i thought it might be light. i remember mine as babies really needing daylight to get into humane (for me) sleeping pattern.

honeytea Sun 24-Feb-13 19:42:38

I think the Swedes are not necessarily more ill than the brits but they take being ill more seriously so they tend to take the day off work for a cold or sore throat when a British person would probably go into work.

Their childhood death statistics and life expectancy are both better than the UK but that may be due to other things not just napping outside.

shallweshop Sun 24-Feb-13 22:10:25

FFS 'Nordic napping' - just normal parents taking their kids out in their normal environment. The children are actually wrapped up in their snowsuits, blankets etc. Does it make a difference that they are parked up outside somewhere or if they are being pushed around outside?

MariscallRoad Sun 24-Feb-13 23:05:56

It would not work with every baby though! Some don’t like sleeping during the day. Mine did not want to sleep in the day.

MariscallRoad Sun 24-Feb-13 23:29:14

well, in my London neighbourhood we don’t have clean air whether snow or not snow and would not recommend. Very much pollution because of traffic. I had collected one winter the top snow that had fallen on our hedge, put it in a plastic container, sparkling white and waited for it melt. When it did so there was a black line around the box which tells me the air was poluted and the dirt was collected by the snow as it fell.

abbyfromoz Mon 25-Feb-13 06:11:56

Did this when visiting friends in Denmark. Would never do it ere in London... Insanity. But the air is fresher and cleaner there and bubbas are all wrapped up toasty and snuggly buggly. Fresh air has so many health benefits.

ppeatfruit Mon 25-Feb-13 09:19:37

Erm.. hmm confused shallweshop Unless you have a newly invented remote control for pushing the pram then YOU are actually there while pushing .If the pram and baby are 'parked up' you are NOT there!

Jux Mon 25-Feb-13 09:26:12

Air is the same whether you take your children/babies out in it or leave the pram parked up outside. If that's what they (and you) are breathing then it's what you're breathing. Doesn't make any difference whether you're going down the shops/park with the baby in the pram, or putting the baby in the pram outside for a nap.

undercoverhousewife Mon 25-Feb-13 11:14:20

Isn't there a "diving reflex" that means that, especially in small children and babies, heart rate and respiration lowers when there is cold air on the face (I think this is how some babies survive being underwater for a few minutes if it is cold enough)? I am guessing that helps explain the good sleep.

As a baby, I was put for hours at the end of the garden and would have done with mine BUT FOR THE FOXES. Here in the London suburbs, we are overrun and they are often in the garden at dusk, playing, so no way could I be happy leaving a baby outside unattended.

ppeatfruit Mon 25-Feb-13 12:01:14

One of the other things I would worry about is overheating especially in under 3 month olds'.

Thumbwitch Mon 25-Feb-13 12:09:40

My DS1 would definitely have overheated - he was a December baby in the UK and could never wear a snowsuit out - he had his cotton sleepsuit and a fleece hooded coat, with a single blanket - that was enough. He used to overheat so easily. DS2 is pretty similar.

We were put outside like this in enormous old-fashioned prams in the early 1960's. My very earliest memories are of looking up at sky framed by the huge pram hood and throughout my childhood I always associated being tucked up in my pram with warmth, comfort and security! I even used the memory of being cozy in my pram to "self-soothe" myself to sleep - these were the days when getting out of bed was a punishable offence for small children and there was no heating upstairs anyway, so it was freezing cold at night!

radiohelen Mon 25-Feb-13 13:38:22

I put my little one outside in the cold. I did until I found a fox sniffing round his pram in the middle of the day. Heart in mouth moment, I went out and yelled and flapped and the damn thing went for me. I didn't leave him outside again. It probably works OK where you know your garden is enclosed and therefore safe.

EskSmith Mon 25-Feb-13 13:42:31

DD1 had all her naps outside on our veranda from 9 months. It was where she slept best and right for her. DD2 was happiest in her cot so that is where she slept.
I don't understand what the difference is between a pram being pushed and being stationary, they still need to be wrapped up appropriately. If I was happy to take her out for a walk then by definition she would be warm enough outside stationary too no?

I think some parents forget that babies stay the same temperature stationary or moving whereas those walking get cold when they stop.

Twattergy Mon 25-Feb-13 13:54:19

I haven't left ds outside for a nap but definitely do take him out in the freezing weather in his buggy for walks/naps. When he was 3mo we whacked him in the Bjorn and strapped him to DH and went snow-shoeing in the park! He fell asleep v quickly! When it's super cold I seem to be the only one with him in the park, so I do sometimes wonder if other people avoid going out in the cold. In my mind, cold weather is no problem for little ones as long as they are dressed properly. There does seem to be something 'health giving' in cold fresh air, although I think that's just in my imagination rather than based on any medical fact!

HelenaLee Mon 25-Feb-13 13:56:37

Thanks all for reading my article. I'm finding your contributions here really interesting

BadRoly Mon 25-Feb-13 14:01:48

My neighbour's mother was convinced dd2 lived in our garage! I had 3 school runs a day when dd2 was born (in November) so she slept mostly in the pram. I wrapped her up and left her in her pram in the garage to sleep if she went off on one of the school runs.

Didn't know it had a name though wink

ppeatfruit Mon 25-Feb-13 14:51:00

"it works where your garden is enclosed" Erm.... foxes can climb and dig unless you have electric fencing I wouldn't do it!

MummytoMog Mon 25-Feb-13 15:46:27

I was a bit cross when my MIL left my teeny DD at the bottom of the garden asleep in her pushchair, but the garden is 100ft long, you can't see the bottom from the house and we have a family of bloody horrible foxes at the bottom of the garden, who had recently eaten all our chickens and probably would have quite fancied a newborn for a light snack dingo ate my baby time otherwise I'm all for kiddies being out in the cold, well wrapped up. We took ours out for a lovely walk in the snow last month, they adored it.

ppeatfruit Mon 25-Feb-13 15:51:04

"a bit cross" mummytoMog shock I'd 've been bleedin' frothing at the mouth!!!! and I wouldn't left MIL in charge again.

Notnowcato Mon 25-Feb-13 17:30:18

Yep, that was what happened to me and my sister in the 1960s in Yorkshire. Good long naps outside everyday, and we were both born in November. My sister was born in 1962, and we all know what sort of a winter that was!!

Don't think we benefitted from those lovely, high-tech materials to keep us warm either. We had wool blankets, knitted cardis and a silver cross pram.

Not sure whether we were healthier or not: I suffered from dreadful tonsillitis and chilblains all through my childhood!! But I suppose we do both like to be outdoors even in the winter.

My sister now lives in Sweden and we have visited her in December, Jan, Feb, March, April … winter does last a long time! I think if you live there, you have to be used to be outside when it's cold. Three and four year old children gather at their nurseries when it is still dark in the morning and play in a sub-zero, floodlit playground until it's time to go inside. It's just how life is lived in the winter.

desidesosa Tue 26-Feb-13 10:15:46

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Martha75 Tue 26-Feb-13 12:39:16

My three all slept outside in their nice warm pram winter and summer - however I never put them out in fog or rain which we seem to get a lot of just lately. We were given a M&P pram for our granddaughters to use when they come, but it has nowhere to attach a harness, I wouldn't leave a baby without strapping it in.

MELanglands Tue 26-Feb-13 15:00:59

I used to put my baby outside in her carry cot on our flat balcony. We lived in Germany and in winter the temperatures were sometimes around freezing. I think it made her more resistant to germs.

MyNameIsAnAnagram Tue 26-Feb-13 21:38:58

Mine slept much better outside so I used to walk him round the block he was asleep then park him at the patio doors, I thought that was just normal? Will do the same with no 2 as well.

elizabethaaliyah Wed 27-Feb-13 13:39:14

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