Mary Beard again

(34 Posts)
sieglinde Tue 22-Jan-13 10:39:28

The hideous aspect of life in 2013 - not Beard, of course, but the right-wing misogyny of her tormentors....

Here is what she very bravely said:

timesonline.typepad.com/dons_life/2013/01/internet-fury.html#more

In a week where misogynists are sniffling over the demise of fat ugly stupid boring old Michael Winner, this reeks even more than usual.

McBalls Tue 22-Jan-13 10:47:15

Oh Jesus, halfway through reading that and I feel utterly disgusted.

flatpackhamster Tue 22-Jan-13 11:06:15

Oh no, horrible people are on the internet.

Don't know what makes you think they're right-wing though.

sieglinde Tue 22-Jan-13 11:17:56

Flatpack, because it was in part a response to what Beard said on Question Time about immigrants.

I know horrible people are on the internet. Just this is a new level of horrible. New to me, anyway.

flatpackhamster Tue 22-Jan-13 11:37:29

What makes you think it's only right-wing voters who are opposed to mass immigration? Labour voters feel the same way. The only people in favour of mass immigration are the people who won't lose their jobs to it.

The internet is like that, only worse in some places. But that's no different to real life.

Chubfuddler Tue 22-Jan-13 11:44:23

I've had very similar comments on fb from lefties. It's not a political spectrum thing, it's a woman hating thing.

sieglinde Tue 22-Jan-13 11:45:45

I must lead a very sheltered life, then. I've never before seen a recognisable human face superimposed on a fanny as a form of repartee. And if the left would care to take responsibility for the nauseating abuse meted out to Mary Beard, so be it.

flatpackhamster Tue 22-Jan-13 12:03:29

The reason you haven't seen that sort of crud is that you're not a teenager or college student. Heaps of websites out there with that sort of junk on. Somethingawful, 4chan, that kind of thing. Oh, and much worse.

I don't think it's misogyny, either, but misanthropy. They don't just hate women, they hate everyone.

sieglinde Tue 22-Jan-13 12:13:37

Then why the very gender-specific abuse?

flatpackhamster Tue 22-Jan-13 12:21:38

Because it's an easy target. It's a personal attack on someone's appearance. Just because it's a woman, doesn't make it misogyny. Beard writes in her article that they're abusing Andrew Marr on the site. D'you think there won't be personal attacks on his appearance?

sieglinde Tue 22-Jan-13 12:29:42

I don't think I want to look. grin However, in general women are attacked much more often for looks/appearance than men are.

sieglinde Tue 22-Jan-13 12:31:14

and I was actually referring specifically to the conflation face/fanny, which does strike me as at least reflexively misogynist, even though you are most likely correct to say it's just dealt from the abuse deck without much thought.

EllieArroway Tue 22-Jan-13 13:15:23

In a week where misogynists are sniffling over the demise of fat ugly stupid boring old Michael Winner, this reeks even more than usual

So, you're complaining about the way a woman's looks are being abused and in the next breath abusing the looks of someone else?

There are more adult ways of making a point, you know.

sieglinde Tue 22-Jan-13 13:20:33

Oh, hi, Ellie. How nice. Polite smile

JoanByers Tue 22-Jan-13 13:23:13

I'm not quite sure how seriously to take an OP that purports to be about sexism, yet has a completely random and unconnected attack on another Cambridge graduate, recently deceased, for being 'fat, old and ugly'. hmm

EllieArroway Tue 22-Jan-13 13:23:41

Not running away this time then? wink

JoanByers Tue 22-Jan-13 13:23:42

xp with Ellie, I see.

EllieArroway Tue 22-Jan-13 13:24:49

Joan Quite.

Newtwinmum Tue 22-Jan-13 13:38:10

Hi I think there plenty of people who use Internet as a place to hide and abuse people but lately there is a lot of hate spread around as soon it is about immigrants and people think your defending, what is funny though is that the woman in Boston her grandparents were immigrants who settled here and had kids.

seeker Tue 22-Jan-13 13:40:40

"I don't think it's misogyny, either, but misanthropy. They don't just hate women, they hate everyone."

Oh good. When's it going to be the men's turn?

JoanByers Tue 22-Jan-13 13:48:31

Everyone is an immigrant at some point Newtwinmum. There's no logical contradiction between that and being opposed to further immigration.

There are 7 billion in this world and no room for even 1% of that number in the UK. Immigration is therefore something that we should control and regulate according to the greatest good of the people already here - many of whom are recent immigrants, but that's entirely irrelevant to letting further immigrants in.

As I recall those within the last Labour government secretly determined that they would admit millions from Eastern Europe. They never stood up and said this, but they did so.

The present Conservative government appears to be following the same procedure - refusing to endorse immigration, but quietly permitting it.

I'm not really sure how many people have actually stood up on TV and come out in favour of our present immigration policy. Not many I don't think.

Newtwinmum Tue 22-Jan-13 14:14:43

I am all for controlled immigration no country can deal well with thousands of people coming here all of a sudden but I also think that people should have an equal chance, and that means if someone wants to come here and work there should be that chance. Because we Brits have the same opportunity to go all over the world and live somewhere else( preferably warmer). But nowadays if you even bring up immigrants and foreign people working here their is no debate but immediate abuse. I think if the government brings in a rule that when you come here your not allowed any benefits for a year a or two, it should work.

JoanByers Tue 22-Jan-13 14:17:23

lots of people want to come here and work. I personally know dozens of low-paid workers who would like to come here and work. But they can't, and rightly so.

It's not true that we can rock up in Thailand and get work there either.

CocktailQueen Tue 22-Jan-13 14:26:38

I was shocked to reat that vile internet page. Unbelievable; what a horrendous amount of appalling abuse. The internet has a lot to answer for. What did pathetic, cowardly, STUPID people do to torment people before they could do it without fear of being caught? They are bullies - how on earth do they relate to real people in normal life if they think this kind of behaviour is acceptable?? The mind boggles. Anyway, I didn't see Qt but love MB's history programmes and think it's refreshing to see that a woman who does to conform to all our deleb-inspired cultural norms on BBC.

Newtwinmum Tue 22-Jan-13 14:34:58

Hi Joan I am referring to the sentiment that all immigration is bad lots of immigrants are highly qualified people who work in the nhs or wherever and we need those people here and I don't know about Thailand but friends have gone to dubai to teach english where they not only get a well paid job but an apartment and some workers get an car as well to use free of charge! Mary beard just had an opinion and she is being horribly abused for that! I btw really like her program's and agree with you cocktailQueen

JoanByers Tue 22-Jan-13 14:39:55

English teaching is a skilled job for which a native speaker is preferred.

Planting potatoes, or whatever they are doing in Boston, is not.

Women of all political persuasions are the particular target of misogynistic abuse, unfortunately.

flatpackhamster Tue 22-Jan-13 17:57:22

seeker

Oh good. When's it going to be the men's turn?

Apparently you missed the opening post of this thread.

seeker Tue 22-Jan-13 18:51:30

Yep. I missed Michael Winner's face being superimposed on a cock and balls, and the detailed discussion of his genitalia, pubic hair and sexual preferences.

Could you provide a link please?

flatpackhamster Tue 22-Jan-13 19:05:47

Jesus wept, seeker. If you want to see men being abused on that website, why don't you just go and look on it? As Mary Beard herself points out in her article, they're being abusive about Andrew Marr.

But this isn't about the nature of the abuse, is it? It's a way of keeping score, so's you can say "Look at the evil menz, they are the worserer, we are so oppressed because of patriarchals".

seeker Tue 22-Jan-13 19:15:08

The remarks about Andrew Marr have been taken down.

I repeat. Show me vile abuse of men of the type levelled at Mary Beard.

flatpackhamster Tue 22-Jan-13 19:15:45

Repeat it all you like, it's still a stupid comment.

seeker Tue 22-Jan-13 19:20:08

Why is it stupid? Are you saying that a man would be abused in the same way that Mary Beard was?

JoanByers Tue 22-Jan-13 21:13:10

The remarks about Mary Beard have been taken down too.

sieglinde Wed 23-Jan-13 08:09:24

Sorry, all, and especially Ellie - busy work day yesterday.

Glad seeker and in a way others saw the point of my remark about Winner - it was meant to provoke the discussion that's happened here. My point was just that male opiners are not held to the same standard of looks/youth as women in the public eye.

I didn't want to discuss immigration in Lincolnshire, because for me it wasn't the point; Beard could have said that aliens came from the earth's core and still wouldn't have deserved the hate-laden tirades she got.

And a man would NOT be abused in the SAME body-related terms as she was, though I take the point that these sites are generally for abuse of all kinds. I didn't know they existed, and I'm kinda sorry I do.

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