Tesco beef burgers are 29% horse meat

(180 Posts)
JoanByers Tue 15-Jan-13 21:13:20

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2262961/Beef-burgers-contaminated-HORSE-MEAT-sale-UK-Ireland-supermarkets-including-Tesco.html

It's hardly a surprise now is it. If you are going to eat beef burgers costing £2.52/kg, they clearly can't be made of beef - beef costs more than double that price.

www.tesco.com/groceries/Product/Details/?id=264291549

Cheap processed meat is just disgusting. Ham made from meat slurry (most ham on sale in this country), reconstituted chicken from Thailand (I found this in a sandwich on sale in the Co-Op).

VivaLeBeaver Tue 15-Jan-13 21:21:33

I don't see why people who'd happily eat cows are up in arms about eating horses. An animal is an animal. If you're happy to eat one don't see why you're to happy to eat the lot.

No wonder they sate so good....

Taste. Not sate

Bubblegum78 Tue 15-Jan-13 21:26:17

Horse burgers are the norm in some some countries, it's only us that get sqeamish at the idea.

I quite like the look of the buffalo burger on Nigel Slater... mmmmmm

OkayHazel Tue 15-Jan-13 21:32:56

So? It's not like its a secret - its on the back of the packet. 'Beef'burger is only about as accurate as hamburger for content description. Any idiot should expect this.

If its good enough for the French. I personally love horse meat! Don't get me started on kangaroos... yum.

KoalaTale Tue 15-Jan-13 21:33:23

Sadly it's the short sightedness of our greedy society that people want meat to be dirt cheap. What do they expect for this price?! A humanely treated and slaughtered free range cow would produce WAY more expensive burgers. You get what you pay for mad cows disease from factory farming cheap meat

Ooh yes Hazel, kangaroo is the best meat ever - so incredibly tasty!

I'd quite happily eat horse. But I don't buy burgers so haven't had the chance! wink

Saltycopporn Tue 15-Jan-13 21:52:39

I ate a horse only this morning

BarredfromhavingStella Tue 15-Jan-13 21:57:42

Horse meat is lovely and as said upthread a normal everyday thing to be eaten in other countries. Don't understand why people are so squeamish about it, you're either a meat eater or not.

Valpollicella Tue 15-Jan-13 22:01:18

Sorry Hazel...I can't see where on the ingredients it lists horse? confused Help me out here as genuinely want to know where smile

LuluMai Tue 15-Jan-13 22:02:50

Meh, as long as it's not human.

Mutt Tue 15-Jan-13 22:06:36

I'm only surprised they aren't 29% horse shit at that price.

<vom>

Mutt Tue 15-Jan-13 22:09:07
Beaverfeaver Tue 15-Jan-13 22:10:06

Chips fried in horse fat are the best.

GrimmaTheNome Tue 15-Jan-13 22:17:33

DH said he was once served horse tartare in Belgium as a delicacy. And he claims cat in China.

Apparently Koreans, who eat dog, are horrified that we eat fluffy bunny rabbits.

Funny old world.

Eliza22 Tue 15-Jan-13 22:22:14

The Belgians do it, all the time. So what?

cece Tue 15-Jan-13 22:25:06

<<shrugs>>

EndoplasmicReticulum Tue 15-Jan-13 22:26:10

What Beaver said.

I eat cow. I'd eat horse. I've eaten fluffy bunny. I'm an equal opportunity meat eater.

Don't think I'd like dog though because they are a bit stinky.

Mutt Tue 15-Jan-13 22:27:47

shock

<farts>

so what ?? Lambs are cute, doesn't stop me stewing em !!

BluelightsAndSirens Tue 15-Jan-13 22:31:12

I eat cow. I'd eat horse. I've eaten fluffy bunny. I'm an equal opportunity meat eater. Arf grin

Fried wet dog wouldn't be nice IMO.

CarlingBlackMabel Tue 15-Jan-13 22:31:54

It isn't about the cutesyness of the beast in question.

It's the fact that if Tesco et al have no idea what is in the stuff on their shelves, they can't know if it's safe, and if they can't trust their suppliers (which this shows they can't) then what the hell else is in their products??

The manufacturers of the burgers claim they have never bought horse. So no-one knows where it came from, whether it is fit for human consumption, or what!

edam Tue 15-Jan-13 22:32:27

It'd be nice if the producers and retailers were honest about what was in their burgers, though. Calling them beefburgers is misleading. (I'm a veggie but I buy beefburgers for ds, who isn't - although I try to buy decent ones made of actual beef at a reasonable price.)

KhallDrogo Tue 15-Jan-13 22:35:40

I'm suprised horse meat is cheaper than cow meat

GrimmaTheNome Tue 15-Jan-13 22:37:02

I doubt the retailers knew what was in them - but they should have.

Carling is of course right - we don't really want 'knacker's choice burger' even if we wouldn't necessarily mind honest horsemeat.

I ate these once, they gave me the trots.

Mutt Tue 15-Jan-13 22:38:21

CarlingBlackMabel - you are absolutely right of course.

Who knows what scabby old nags went into the Dobbin Burgers?

If the manufacturers aren't even owning up to buying horsemeat, I can't imagine whoever did source/supply it would be very scrupulous with regard to its quality.

DrSeuss Tue 15-Jan-13 22:40:06

You caught me on the hoof but nay! This is not the kind of thing to trot out at this hour! You canter be serious!

Meglet Tue 15-Jan-13 22:41:37

At least horse is a natural product, I'd be more worried about the crap that goes into that sort of thing.

I'm (virtually) veggie so never eat things like that, give me a lentil burger over cheap meat any day.

ArielThePiraticalMermaid Tue 15-Jan-13 22:42:24

Ah. Deliberately misleading. Of the meat that is in them, 29% of it is horsemeat. So probably about 1% of the whole thing then.

As an aside, why would you object to horse if you eat cow?

Mutt Tue 15-Jan-13 22:46:47

"As an aside, why would you object to horse if you eat cow?"

Have you actually read any of the thread?

Twattybollocks Tue 15-Jan-13 22:48:17

I don't have a problem with horse meat, but I'd like to know which I'm eating. If they were labelled correctly as "meat pattys from unspecified animals" that would be fine.
As for horse meat being cheap, you can go to the new forest and buy a pony for £25 or less at the moment, that's for the entire horse, not just per kilo.

EndoplasmicReticulum Tue 15-Jan-13 22:49:15

The pig DNA is potentially problematic if you are pig-avoiding for religious regions, I would imagine.

Although the presence of the DNA doesn't necessarily indicate there was much pig in there, could just be a bit of contamination from the abbatoir.

I wonder if they looked for human DNA?

EndoplasmicReticulum Tue 15-Jan-13 22:50:13

regions? I mean reasons. Can't even blame autocorrect.

ArielThePiraticalMermaid Tue 15-Jan-13 22:51:28

To Mutt, nope.

Glitterspy Tue 15-Jan-13 22:53:22

I'm horrified by the idea of ponyburgers. It's not a rational thing, I just am disgusted by the idea. Just glad I never ate one of these by mistake. How are horses being tied up in our food chain anyway when they're (thankfully) not even eaten in this country?

happynewmind Tue 15-Jan-13 22:53:37

"Sadly it's the short sightedness of our greedy society that people want meat to be dirt cheap"

I don't think its that with the cheap stuff, I think its more people having to buy what they can afford when lots of people are really struggling and worried about feeding their families enough to get a full stomach rather than what quality they are eating.

I don't eat burgers but im guessing the rich don't buy many Tesco value.

giraffesCantGoFirstFooting Tue 15-Jan-13 22:53:38

I am a veggie, and don't see the problem. If you can eat one animal, why not eat all animals?

WellingtonBoot Tue 15-Jan-13 22:54:23

Every little helps!

Valpollicella Tue 15-Jan-13 22:56:06

giraffes, absolutely. Unless your religion forbids you to eat others

Mutt Tue 15-Jan-13 22:58:03

giraffes - so if someone slipped a little ham into your lentil burger would that be ok and not worth complaining about?

After all, it wouldn't do you any harm. It's just something you choose not to eat.

Rather like people who would rather not eat horses...

I wouldn't eat seagull, and squirrel just doesn't seem worth the effort either but I'll try anything

Oh, I wonder if the 'beef' I had from Tesco last night was horse, it was a bit different in texture from what I was expecting. But I've never had horse steaks. What is it like?

I also don't understand the fuss about eating horses. It makes no sense at all. What about all the ickle piggy wiggies, and fluffy lambs? Does no one care about them?

I ate horse once on holiday as a kid. I can't remember what it was like. All I remember about that day is being violently sea sick (so not related to having eaten horse).

FIL was all excited about going on holiday to Peru and eating guinea pig!

whatphididnext Tue 15-Jan-13 23:01:41

I'll only eat a cow, you say
And I'd happily eat ten a day,
But anything that trots or neighs
You'd better keep quite far away.
They eat the ponies across the pond
But of that idea, we're not too fond.
We're English folk, so you see
We like to know what's in our Tea.

Valpollicella Tue 15-Jan-13 23:01:54

LRD, from what I remember horse is much more meatier, and more 'iron'some if that makes sense.

Richer than beef but not tougher as you might expect

Horse burgers cooked on a charcoal grill and washed down with several bottles of rose wine is bloody lovely. Well, from what I can remember anyway. It was a lot of wine.

JoanByers Tue 15-Jan-13 23:03:05

It's the process by which these products are made.

If you sell paperclips, and you find a new supplier that will supply paperclips 20% cheaper, you'll switch to them. And if you find another supplier next week who are 10% cheaper again, you'll switch again.

And so on.

Likewise with shit burgers, they will be trying to cut costs of their supply chain, and if that means getting horse meat in from Mongolia, or chicken from Thailand, they will.

Of course I imagine that these products are in use in the catering industry in kebab shops and the like - I know that many kebabs are made of pork, because it's cheaper, and yer average doner contains little or no lamb.

Branleuse Tue 15-Jan-13 23:03:58

I had horse burgers last summer. Not as good as i was expecting. A steak would have probably been better.

mam29 Tue 15-Jan-13 23:04:03

Loving all the jokes here cheered me up.

Im so hungry I could eat horse.

Actually this story triggered some sort flashback of investigative journalism possibly 3years ago c4 didpatches or itv tonight program with blonde sun columist jane moore.

It looked at zebu burgers in excuse the pun The hungry horse restaurants and weatherspoons.
Basixally zebra is related to horse family.
Not sure ho much meat comes from africa.

read about people trying to smuggle meat in.

I think the problems here are

this is no accident someones currupt in supply chain my guess supplier tesco have no specified mixed origion they just brought at lo price no questions asked,

Honest labelling and knowing where food comes from.

I buy my meat from butcher
I buy mince in supermarlet lean beef mice and free range or rspca poultry.

I used to be veggie for 9years.

Personally would rather eat less meat and eat better.

I birds eye only frozen as says 100% beef or chicken.
Weather or not I should trust that who knows.

What it does make me think is are uk consumers being prtected what punishment will tesco have.

squeakytoy Tue 15-Jan-13 23:04:51

The issue is not so much the animal, but HOW it got into the food chain. There are such strict regulations (or supposed to be) in place to avoid cross contamination, and this is a massive slip up. It could also have huge economic repercussions with regards to the export of meat from the UK, which will severely affect the farming communities.

PurpleStorm Tue 15-Jan-13 23:05:18

Seriously?

That's disturbing. I've got no objection to eating horse meat although I might have to avoid telling my horse loving friend about it if I did eat it , but I feel very strongly that the ingredients list on food packets should be accurate.

They're claiming that the only animal in the beef burgers is cows on the packet. If they want to put random animals in there, they should either say which other animals, or say meat from unspecified animals.

Raises questions about what else might be in Tesco's food (including veggie food) that they're not telling the consumer about.

Alisvolatpropiis Tue 15-Jan-13 23:05:24

I see horses as being in the same category as dogs and cats. They are pets.

I'd eat all of them if I had to though.

I would annoyed that the packaging had been misleading though. Just because I like my food packaging to be honest.

val - it was very tender, but more watery and pink. I suspect it was just bad beef. But thank you!

JoanByers Tue 15-Jan-13 23:05:48

Looking at this:

www.boucherie.info/index.php?a=produits-tarifs

horse meat does seem cheaper than beef.

I wouldn't mind some saucisson sec de cheval actually.

I don't particularly object to horse, it's just the manufacturing process whereby all this dogfood, essentially, gets shipped around the world, and random bits of this and parts of that end up in your burger. It's emblematic of the process.

piprabbit Tue 15-Jan-13 23:06:33

I'd rather not eat a meat product at all, than eat one that is 'formed' from something.

ICBINEG Tue 15-Jan-13 23:09:37

I am pretty shocked actually! Not that horse meat is bad, but actually no having the first idea wft is in the food you are selling is pretty unforgivable.

It's the same with childrens toys....you would think if you by toys from a European manufacturer you would avoid lead paint etc. but if the toy contains parts made in china you can forget it for the same reasons this has happened. The supply chain gets so long and changes so frequently the company who's name is on the box has got sod all idea what is in it any more.

As a horse owner and none meat eater, I find this quite horrifying.

But purely from the point of view of no one knowing what goes into what is eaten. How it was treated, how it was produced. There could be anything in there.

Thank goodness for vegetables.

DeepRedBetty Tue 15-Jan-13 23:14:52

I wouldn't have an issue with eating a piece of horse if I knew in advance that's what it was. I'd find it slightly weird, due to being English, and would probably choose something else off the menu, but mostly meh.

I do have an issue with an object labelled as a beef-burger turning out that its meat content is nearly 3/10 a completely different animal to a cow. Horses are frequently treated with Bute, which remains in the animal's muscle tissue (i.e. meat), and bute is not a safe chemical for human consumption. If the labelling regime is managing to avoid even mentioning what species is involved then the chances of traceability for individual carcasses must be zero.

To be honest, I always assume there's something amiss with very cheap meat. (And so I buy more expensive meat).

I agree Tesco should know what's in their burgers and it should be clear labelled, though.

DizzyZebra Tue 15-Jan-13 23:19:07

I don't see why this is a big deal. Just because some of us eat cheap meat doesn't mean we are thick enough to believe it's 100% as advertised... I love horses.. But we are top of the food chain, So we can eat what we like, The idea of eating horse does not offend me.

Remotecontrolduck Tue 15-Jan-13 23:19:14

It's not so much the issue of having horse in burgers, it's the fact they did not label it. It was a 'Beef' burger, no mention of 29%!!!! Horse meat!!

I try to make sure all my meat has been reared and slaughtered humanely, so wouldn't have found myself buying these products, but no company should be allowed not to label something which makes up 29% of something, no matter how cheap.

I'm not buying the idea that people who eat meat should be prepared to eat any meat. People have their own limits, and should be informed accurately of what they're eating.

FogClearing Tue 15-Jan-13 23:22:59

I have no issue with a random meat burger as long as the source is tracable and labeled for sale correctly.

mam29 Tue 15-Jan-13 23:24:34

I always try and buy the fresh chilled burgers are they affected too or is it just frozen?

Quite like the fresh vennision burgers in co-op.

I think going to have chat with butcher on weekend.

also discuss with husband if we can eat more veg and go farmshop more.

With 3young children I like to know what im feeding them.

Guess huge grey area for everyone is eating out/takeways.
ready meals-where does meat come from then?

TinyDancingHoofer Wed 16-Jan-13 00:01:09

I have horses, i would eat horse but i would want to know it was free range or organic, nicely raised. But would also have massive issue eating something that came from somewhere that so badly mixes up its ingredients. Horse meat is generally more expensive than beef i thought? So that's weird for them to put a better ingredient in.

If people can't trust tesco for what meat they are eating, how can allergy sufferers trust them? Correct labelling in food is a serious health issue.

Naoko Wed 16-Jan-13 00:18:54

I have eaten horse (knowingly), I don't have a problem with eating horse, but if I buy a beef burger I expect it to be made with beef. Not horse. There's a clear food safety problem here if there are things in the supply chain that shouldn't be there, and that's why this is appalling.

ripsishere Wed 16-Jan-13 00:39:05

IMO, horse is the same as cow, pig and sheep and chicken. I don't eat much meat and certainly avoid processed stuff.
I have knowingly eaten horse. It is much more iron-y as someone else said upthread.
I've also eaten dog. Not knowingly.

theplodder Wed 16-Jan-13 04:51:15

kangaroo is revolting and whilst a lean meat very unhygenically produced. there are serious welfare and hygene issues , the trade should be banned. indeed imports are banned in many countries . avoid.

feministefatale Wed 16-Jan-13 05:16:21

Doesn't really matter if you would happily eat other meats, if something says "beef" on the packaging... it should contain beef.

sleepywombat Wed 16-Jan-13 05:42:21

I would expect 'value' meat products to contain all sorts of shit - fillers, preservatives, starches, chemical residues, sugars etc etc. Horse would be the least of my worries!

I've had horse in France several times, think its ok, not my favourite meat. My dad ate dog in Korea & guinea pig in Peru - said the former was horrible & the latter fine but not worth the effort (lots of bones, not much meat).

MrsMushroom Wed 16-Jan-13 05:47:58

why would ANYONE buy those when you can get a packet of mince for a couple of quid and make your own?

V disturbed by the term "meat slurry" Joan

Ericaequites Wed 16-Jan-13 05:58:40

Read Upton Sinclair's The Jungle. It's free on Project Gutenberg. The novel describes abuses in the slaughterhouse industry a century ago. The pink slime slurry in the US and this Tesco report show things have not improved as much as they should have. The book is a great argument for becoming a vegetarian.
I would not eat horsemeat, but it is not generally obtainable here.

minibmw2010 Wed 16-Jan-13 06:50:10

They've removed them off the shelves now claiming they didn't know.

If its in the burger ur should be listed. Simple! People can eat all they want once they have enough info to Make their decision. What about people of different religions who aren't supposed to eat certain foods. Some of us could shrug it off but for some it could he a major ethical dilemma. Plus where did the horse come from. We don't eat horse routinely in this country?

ebersneezer Wed 16-Jan-13 07:03:16

I have no problems with horse being eaten but the issue is not with that, the media is focussing on the norse but they also found pork. It's about processes in the manufacturing process and labelling.

BlackholesAndRevelations Wed 16-Jan-13 07:20:20

Bleurgh. I stay away from value meat (always have done) for the reason that you never quite know what's in it........

I only really eat chicken (not value but not the very top of the range), lean steak mince (still a little dubious but try not to think about it too much), lean casserole steak, and sausages from best ranges that have 80% plus meat content. I do worry about what shit is going into my children when they eat sausages/ sausage rolls etc at parties. Childminder even gave them scotch eggs. The term "the scrapings off the abattoir floor" always rings in my ears. Bleurgh <scared of value meat products>

sashh Wed 16-Jan-13 08:17:58

Maybe they have just found Shergar?

YorkshireDeb Wed 16-Jan-13 08:37:49

I'm not particularly offended by the thought of eating horse meat & think I'd be more likely to buy cheap burgers if I knew it was decent quality meat from less popular animals than the poor quality crap that I thought went into them. Correct labelling is an interesting point but I think in some cases I'd rather not know. The label 'beef burgers' sounds a hell of a lot more palatable than 'cow eyeball, brain & bollock burgers with lots of random additives & a bit of horse'. X

fluffyraggies Wed 16-Jan-13 08:43:28

DM - "The highest level of horse meat was found in the chain's Everyday Value beefburgers [29%] but traces were also detected in its frozen quarter pounders."

Value burgers packaging - "Ingredients: Beef (63%),Onion (10%) ,Wheat Flour ,Water ,Beef Fat ,Soya Protein Isolate ,Salt ,Onion Powder ,Yeast ,Sugar ,Barley Malt Extract ,Garlic Powder ,White Pepper Extract ,Celery Extract ,Onion Extract

The 'meat' in the value burger accounted for 60% of the bulk of it.
A third of that meat was horse.

I'm not going to do any more maths but IMO that's not a 'tiny amount'.
Not good.

sashh Wed 16-Jan-13 08:50:54

fluffy

They have just interviewed the scientist who discovered this. The products with 'traces' had one or two cells. Tiny amounts of DNA.

flatpackhamster Wed 16-Jan-13 08:59:26

I think that point that's being missed here is that the animals which are going in to these burgers aren't coming from the UK food chain with all its checks and balances. A large amount of this product is coming from poorly regulated abattoirs within the EU which, while they are required to follow EU laws, simply don't bother.

Loveweekends10 Wed 16-Jan-13 10:24:37

If they listed everything that was in a sausage you would never go near them again! Except if you make them yourselves.

Loveweekends10 Wed 16-Jan-13 10:25:42

Also have you ever read up on the quantity of insect DNA that is allowed to be present in your processed food? Read it and weep!

OwlLady Wed 16-Jan-13 10:28:55

on the subject of cheap meat, I live in the country and I can buy cheap game from my butcher, something which townfolk might turn their nose up at too confused

lovelyladuree Wed 16-Jan-13 10:51:12

One day it will be Soylent Green..............

RebeccaMumsnet (MNHQ) Wed 16-Jan-13 12:06:41

We've moved this thread to In the news now

lljkk Wed 16-Jan-13 12:24:36

A steer walks into a bar and tries to order a drink "argh back ugh argh".
Bartender: "What was that?"
Steer: <<Cough hack sputter>>. "Sorry, I'm a little bit hoarse."

Kaboom!

This kind of thing has been going on for donkey's years

lljkk Wed 16-Jan-13 13:11:54

You know they wanted to make the burgers out of Donkeys, too? Except someone thought they'd taste like Ass.

boom-boom

EndoplasmicReticulum Wed 16-Jan-13 16:11:07

MrsMushroom of course you could buy mince and make your own.

Do you know what's in the mince though?

GrimmaTheNome Wed 16-Jan-13 16:17:30

BSE was still an issue when DD was small...so DH insisted we only bought beef in identifiable pieces from the farm shop and minced it ourselves. (we buy their mince now for burgers etc). They do their own butchery and sometimes have certificates up saying which prize-winning animal we're currently eating. (Its never been a rosette from a local gymkhana yet.)

gaelicsheep Wed 16-Jan-13 16:23:29

A few things here in response to the OP. I'm fairly repulsed by this, we ate these very burgers last night. However I'm not repulsed by the concept of horse meat per se, albeit that it's not something we tend to eat in our culture. What repulses me is that I bought these on the basis of them containing 63% percent beef - a higher percentage than the more expensive ones as it happens - and not too many nasty "additives", but god only knows what they actually contain. There could be anything in there, far worse than horse meat.

I don't like cheap processed food or the concept of it. We are on a severe budget at the moment which is why I bought it just this once. But to my mind if the meat is from a reasonably high welfare source - ie NOT chicken from Thailand or pork from Denmark, for example - then I am not too bothered by the concept of the processed meat itself. I have assumed Irish beef is reasonably high welfare - if I'm wrong on that score then I hold my hands up, but as a general rule I only buy British or Irish anything.

If you're prepared to eat the leg or back muscles of an animal it seems pretty hypocritical to turn your nose up at the less attractive sounding bits, mechanically recovered or not. I would rather see the whole animal put to use personally. As I said it is what else might be going into these products - unlabelled - that now very much worries me.

gaelicsheep Wed 16-Jan-13 16:28:23

Has anyone said this yet:

"Food beyond compare
Food beyond belief
Mince it in a mincer and pretend it's beef.
Liver of a horse
Kidney of a cat
Filling up the sausages with this and that."

This master mistress of the house might be turning the family vegetarian after this.

lljkk Wed 16-Jan-13 16:31:52

Mary had a Little Lamb,
And when she saw it Sicken,
She shipped it off to Packingtown,
and now it's labeled Chicken!

recall Wed 16-Jan-13 16:36:17

I just checked our's in the fridge ...and their off ! grin

recall Wed 16-Jan-13 16:36:36

*they're

lljkk Wed 16-Jan-13 16:37:21

Little Girl: "What's for tea tonight, Mummy?"
Mum: "I thought we'd have some nice fish fingers."
Little Girl starts crying "But I really wanted PONY!"

HeavenlyWineandRoses Wed 16-Jan-13 17:57:58

I've eaten horse but it was sold to me as horse meat (in France) and I would be annoyed if I was mislead into thinking one was the other.

flatpackhamster Wed 16-Jan-13 18:39:46

gaelicsheep

A few things here in response to the OP. I'm fairly repulsed by this, we ate these very burgers last night. However I'm not repulsed by the concept of horse meat per se, albeit that it's not something we tend to eat in our culture. What repulses me is that I bought these on the basis of them containing 63% percent beef - a higher percentage than the more expensive ones as it happens - and not too many nasty "additives", but god only knows what they actually contain. There could be anything in there, far worse than horse meat.

I don't like cheap processed food or the concept of it. We are on a severe budget at the moment which is why I bought it just this once. But to my mind if the meat is from a reasonably high welfare source - ie NOT chicken from Thailand or pork from Denmark, for example - then I am not too bothered by the concept of the processed meat itself. I have assumed Irish beef is reasonably high welfare - if I'm wrong on that score then I hold my hands up, but as a general rule I only buy British or Irish anything.

What you and most consumers don't realise is that the meat you're buying can come from anywhere in the EU, unless it's specifically labelled as British or Irish, and you have to look hard to check that it's British. Suppliers are entitled to source their meat from anywhere in the EU, and the quality of the inspection is dire outside the UK.

This is, of course, a consequence of agriculture being run by Brussels, a factor I hope you'll consider next time you vote. wink

You can look for the red tractor on the pack, which signifies a British product.

The horse part would be the least of my worries.

Slave labour, now this. What next Tesco?

gaelicsheep Wed 16-Jan-13 20:37:29

Flatpackhamster - thanks, but I did know that about UK meat and the little red tractor. I never buy anything that doesn't specify. This product was labelled Beef of Irish origin. I'm not sure why I always thought that was almost as good as UK meat but I shan't make the mistake again.

OwlLady Thu 17-Jan-13 09:28:29

it's not just the eu though is it? I know a lot of frozen chicken products come from thailand

flatpackhamster Thu 17-Jan-13 09:33:13

OwlLady

it's not just the eu though is it? I know a lot of frozen chicken products come from thailand

This is true, it's not just the EU. However, we no longer have control over the produce that comes in to the UK, because that control has been taken over by the EU, who apply the same rules to all 27 member states.

If we want to fix this and stop it happening again, we have to go to the EU and attempt to get agreement on a change in the law. We can't just get Parliament to do it.

mam29 Thu 17-Jan-13 13:27:49

This whole think has made me think lot more.

I dont buy much frozen meat and poultry

but the scale of this is huge
they still dont know how
The uk wasent checking thankgod for the irish
they tested nov
we could have been eating this for years

most shops seem to use same suppliers
only m&s simply burgers were 100%beef when tested
What made them random test anyway?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2262961/Horse-meat-Tesco-burgers-Asda-Co-op-Sainsburys-withdraw-ranges-tests-equine-DNA.html

I buy from local butcher on a van.
I emailed him
he buys all his meat from smithefeilds marlets in london
I then looked at their website-so many traders
he says some meats bristish somes not
I trust him but dont trust supplier or abbatoir comes from.

Have some smug fb freinds saying im not affected i dont eat crap.
or make your own -but how did we know the mince is 100%beef?

sound paranoid.

anyway spoken to family

we going to try more veggie meals
Try local farm shops/farmers market
order from waitrose organic and british

yes will be huge change but my trusts gone and with kids want to make sure they getting the best.

also think theres probelsm with packaging stuff from eu with bristih logo if packed in uk/ireland which consuses the consumer.

Wonder ho dead tesco is today.

gaelicsheep Thu 17-Jan-13 21:06:17

I've been googling Irish beef and I WAS right - I thought I was - that it is a highly regarded, high welfare meat. So I feel doubly furious that I took the trouble to ensure that if I had to buy so-called "junk" food, it was traceable, high welfare junk food, and yet we still ended up eating god knows what crap. Sorry oh smug ones, as a full time working mum I do not have the time or inclination to make my own burgers, even if my kids would eat them (which they won't because of the visible bits of onion that always result). And not everyone can afford to buy all their meat from the butchers. We don't eat much, now I'm thinking we won't be eating any as I have lost all faith in supermarket meat and meat products full stop.

mam29 Thu 17-Jan-13 21:23:46

Gaelic sheep-I as cross as you

Everyone thinks its comical or will do us know harm
Im baffled why people not more angry.

The fact that the retailer and the irish suppliers had no idea has shattered by confidence in anything that comes in from europe or further afeild.

I looked up waitrose they do read made organic duchey fresh beef burgers £3.99 for pack of 4 or currenly 2packs for £6.

I think I may have to rely more online as good butchers few and far between.

Its reason why im going to morrisions buy more fish.

Will do nice speedy eg omlette recipie with free range british eggs,

will do simpler meals like jacket potatoes or soups when in a hurru

try more veggie recipies.

amillionyears Thu 17-Jan-13 21:28:33

flatpackhamster, are you saying that Tesco and others never sample [perhaps not the best word, cant think of a better one] the foods they sell in their stores?

echt Fri 18-Jan-13 06:44:44

Make your own burgers.

Kangaroo is good.

Just heard a good joke - Q:What would you like on your burger? A: A fiver each way.
grin

LuluMai Fri 18-Jan-13 07:43:35

I'm a single parent who works full time and spends most of my time after a full day at work ferrying ds around to his activities. We usually land home 7pm every day. I am not making my own fucking burgers.

Eliza22 Fri 18-Jan-13 08:18:13

This is where you get to.... Cheap produce from god knows where..... Crap in the form of additives/hormones to enhance production of animals, bulk buy offers on food that even our biggest supermarkets have NO IDEA what they're selling us. It's a disgrace.....

Have you noticed how long living/healthy our Royal Family are? (Yes, I know, I've wandered off the subject a bit). Could it be, they have never eaten the shite we have to buy as we're led by cost consideration? They only drink special bottled water etc etc...

I'm lucky now (though it may not always be that way in this financial/job climate) in that I buy small amounts of organic or top quality produce. When I was a single mum, working and trying to make ends meet, I bought the the value and bulk buy stuff. I HAD to.

And as for making your own burgers... Yes, I'm sure David Cameron would encourage that when 'mum' gets home late, having juggled several jobs in order to bring in a bit more cash for " the pot".

And.....breathe. angry

Back2Two Fri 18-Jan-13 08:38:45

I'm not pushing the point, I mean, make your own burgers if you want to and don't if you don't. But it's not really a time thing as making your own would take five minutes.

It's a no brainer for me. Make my own or just don't eat them.

lljkk Fri 18-Jan-13 08:58:43

They are being incinerated to make electricity, supposedly, but still what a Collossal food waste simply to bin them. sad

gaelicsheep Fri 18-Jan-13 16:50:49

Back2Two - maybe it takes you five minutes. With two children at your feet wanting to help, getting out the food processor to chop the onion fine enough, raw meat and egg on your hands so having to wash them every two seconds before little ones want picking up etc., cooking the bloody things which then fall apart in the pan, then extra washing up afterwards. It isn't five minutes is it? Be honest.

Plus "make your own burgers" totally misses the point of this whole debarcle. The point is that if you are buying food that you believe contains decent quality beef - and unlike the food snobs I don't care if it has eyeballs, penis, whatever in it, as long as it actually comes from the stated animal in the stated country - and then you discover you have been lied to, you are entitled to be very very pissed off.

Back2Two Fri 18-Jan-13 19:19:56

Of course you have the right to be pissed off gaelic .
I am mortified but I've never bought that sort of frozen "beef" burgers. I do totally care what "beef" actually means in terms of, as you say, eyeballs and gristle and "pink slime" scraped up off the floor (known as mechanically recovered meat [check out Wikipedia]) Or, as it turns out, horse meat.

Yes, so maybe more than five minutes with my two pestering me, but not much more. And, possibly actually adding potential minutes to their actual life. I'm seriously not trying to sound provocative or like a w**ker I'm serious. Food and the quality of it is very important to me, as is budget. But, I am lucky that I'm not working at all at the moment. It makes it easier.

gaelicsheep Fri 18-Jan-13 20:09:58

I rarely buy anything like that, I'm especially pissed off for succumbing just this once. But as I said earlier in the thread, I would actually rather the whole animal was put to use. What matters to me most is animal welfare and humane slaughter (as far as possible). If the beef is coming from Ireland or the UK then I believe I'm getting both of those. Again as I said, if you're squeamish about the less savoury parts of the animal then you really shouldn't be eating meat at all. I would never be under any illusions that I was getting high quality cuts of meat in cheap meat products, but as long as it's safe to eat that doesn't matter unduly, mechanically recovered or not. The problem is now I no longer believe such products are safe to eat.

gaelicsheep Fri 18-Jan-13 20:13:40

As a matter of fact, mechanically separated beef is not permitted in the human food chain. Not that I have any faith any more that the regulations are being followed. If they discovered THAT in the beef burgers I would be much more worried than by the horse meat.

gaelicsheep Fri 18-Jan-13 20:20:11

Actually I said that too categorically, whereas actually I just got it from that Wikipedia article. Is that true does anyone know? I think I've been very naive in assuming food sold in reasonably reputable supermarkets if fit for human consumption.

MoreBeta Fri 18-Jan-13 20:22:01

I once worked briefly for a wholesale meat trader.

Think container loads of frozen beef on giant container ships out of South America and places like Botswana. Perfectly good beef but plenty of opportunity for the truely unscrupulous to switch horse for beef meat somewhere along the supply chain.

The result is that honest suppliers and shops are unwittingly selling horse meat in burgers.

amillionyears Fri 18-Jan-13 20:25:56

but where is the testing?

amillionyears Fri 18-Jan-13 20:27:52

To be fair, I was in Tescos yesterday, and there was a very contrite notice from Tescos, on the fridge door, where the burgers should have been. And it said, they themselves had let customers down.I assume the notice was in every Tesco store in the land.

gaelicsheep Fri 18-Jan-13 20:28:08

But as I keep saying, the beef in these burgers is supposed to come from Ireland. I would never buy anything that I thought involved container loads of beef from South America or anywhere like that. Or is it really true that it's just made up bolleaux and actually they haven't a clue where the meat in any particular product comes from?

gaelicsheep Fri 18-Jan-13 20:28:53

Are they giving refunds for returned boxes? I ditched the burgers but kept the box with the intention of posting it off for a refund.

amillionyears Fri 18-Jan-13 20:38:24

Yes. They said you could return just the empty package and you would get a full refund. And you didnt need the receipt.
I think they said bring it into the store. Not sure if you could return it to anywhere else.

gaelicsheep Fri 18-Jan-13 20:40:20

Well I'm not driving 30+ miles to go return it so I'll be posting it to their head office or something.

edam Fri 18-Jan-13 23:30:34

gaelic, I too thought mechnically-recovered meat (the use of 'meat' in that phrase has always been somewhat generous) had been banned but apparently not. It counts as 'beef' in the claim that burgers are '100% beef' according to Joanna Blythman, who ought to know what she's talking about. <barf>

edam Fri 18-Jan-13 23:32:33

Given the suspect DNA was apparently in some product called 'beef filler' which the Irish factory buys in, I think it's pretty clear that dodgy industrial by-products are still routinely used in processed food. Thank Christ I only buy organic sausages for ds, from now on the only burgers he's getting are from Karl the butcher who makes them out of actual meat.

BettySuarez Fri 18-Jan-13 23:41:16

We bought Tesco's Finest beef burgers last week and they were foul. Not so much the taste (although that wasn't much to write home about) but the texture. They had a flabby pappy texture, really gross.

This was before the horse meat story broke and so I wondered about fillers and other evil ingredients.

I'm so fed up of not being able to trust what I buy for my family anymore.

mam29 Sat 19-Jan-13 01:00:18

dont know of this helps but detail i been reading surprised me.

I thought meat i was buying a uk/irish
I think this case in burgers possibly is.
the horse dna possibly come from protein fillers they been buying from rest europe which i dident know was addedsad and would explantion why meats contaminated.

Been looking at able and cole/riverford organic meat boxes plus waitrose and think can afford to switch if eat less meat so come pay day thats what we doing.

gaelicsheep Sat 19-Jan-13 02:02:43

So where's the "filler" on the ingredients list? Only thing mentioned is soya protein. [Angry] I really can't trust any food any more. :-(

amillionyears Sat 19-Jan-13 07:46:07

I have not trusted any foods since BSE.
Not that I dont eat! But I realised that nothing is guaranteed.
Even friut and veg, when I heard that a lettuce gets sprayed [dont know what with] 50 times, before we get to eat it.

Might this see a change in meat production in general and the way meat is viewed/eaten here?
I'd like to think it will. I don't eat meat, but when I buy it for the rest if the family I buy "finest", deluding myself that it's probably high quality.
I recently went through a period of going to a local butchers which was lovely (and cheap!) but I struggle to go when they're actually open, unless I make a special trip, which I prefer not to.

Sorry that sounds smug. I'm sure I buy as much crap meat as everyone else and in my case it's worse because I dno't know a lot about it. I'd like to be able to buy good quality meat in relative ignorance grin

amillionyears Sat 19-Jan-13 09:53:16

I think nowadays, for most people, convenience trumps most things. And a cheap price isnt far behind.
So no, I dont see that there will be a sea change.
I think there will be a few who make changes, but not many.

mam29 Sat 19-Jan-13 10:59:54

From what i gather they dont have to label it as filler its comes from meat so is clasified as meat and within package weight.Its quite common for them to add to readyemals, prepacked stuff like burgers now im wondering do they do this in their packs of mince?

This has changed way I will shop and even cook.
willbatch cook and freeze if have to.
dont trust any supermarkets now on meat apart from waitrose.
will be buying local farm shop or organic online.

mam29 Sat 19-Jan-13 11:30:07

copied from guardian article 16/01/13

How did horsemeat get into the food chain?

One of the factories involved, Dalepak Hambleton, says it is likely to have come from a minor ingredient in the burgers, as all but one of the burgers had very low levels of the DNA. The investigations will focus on suppliers to the factories. The huge amount of DNA in one product does raise questions about whether more major ingredients were contaminated.

A statement from Silvercrest said: "Silvercrest has never purchased or traded in equine product and has launched a full-scale investigation into two continental European third-party suppliers who are the suspected source of the product in question."

As well as the burgers, the FSAI analysis found small traces of horse DNA in batches of raw ingredients, including some imported from the Netherlands and Spain. However, these weren't ingredients that had been used in the tested burgers.

Whats the minor ingrediant doesnt say. I think its the protein filler which they trying not to advertise.

then more recent article 18/01/013

The Tesco burgers that contained up to 29% equine DNA were likely to have been made with high-protein powders derived from horse rather than fresh meat, the Guardian has been told.

The main focus of efforts to trace the source of adulteration in the Tesco economy burgers has now shifted from the meat itself to additives used in the manufacturing process. The Irish processors ABP have pointed the finger at suppliers of the "beef ingredient products" it uses to make cheap burgers. The Tesco burgers were only 63% meat and 37% other ingredients.

Economy burgers are typically bulked out with additive mixes of concentrated proteins extracted from animal carcasses and offcuts. Industry sources said the 29% horse DNA was more likely to have originated with these high-protein powders from rendered horses rather than any fresh horse meat. ABP declined to comment on its ingredients or on the companies it uses for additive mixes but they are believed to be in the Netherlands and Spain. The processor said it had stopped work at its Silvercrest Foods plant in Co Monaghan, Ireland, until further notice.

The Guardian has been told efforts to trace the source of adulteration in the Tesco economy burgers are focusing on additives used in the manufacturing process. ABP has pointed the finger at suppliers of the "beef ingredient products" it uses to make cheap burgers. The Tesco burgers were only 63% meat and 37% other ingredients. Economy burgers are typically bulked out with additive mixes of concentrated proteins extracted from animal carcasses and offcuts. Industry sources said the 29% horse DNA was more likely to have originated with these high-protein powders from rendered horses rather than any fresh horse meat. ABP declined to comment on its ingredients or on the companies it uses for additive mixes but they are believed to be in the Netherlands and Spain.

I dont know whats worse

contaminated meat

or it hidden in protein powders upto 37%non meat god knows what
how they trace exact sources of protein in these powders my gues sis they wont they can say thats source but never really be sure where exactly its come fromsad

The Guardian has been told efforts to trace the source of adulteration in the Tesco economy burgers are focusing on additives used in the manufacturing process. ABP has pointed the finger at suppliers of the "beef ingredient products" it uses to make cheap burgers. The Tesco burgers were only 63% meat and 37% other ingredients. Economy burgers are typically bulked out with additive mixes of concentrated proteins extracted from animal carcasses and offcuts. Industry sources said the 29% horse DNA was more likely to have originated with these high-protein powders from rendered horses rather than any fresh horse meat. ABP declined to comment on its ingredients or on the companies it uses for additive mixes but they are believed to be in the Netherlands and Spain.

Industry insiders have told the Guardian they believe that an ingredient called "drind", dehydrated rind or skin, may be at the heart of the scandal. It is commonly used to bulk up cheap meat products.

Additives made from boiled hide or offcuts of carcasses are typically used to bind in added fat and water and increase the protein levels of economy beef products that have a low meat content. These may legally be identified simply as "seasoning" on the label.-SEASONING THAT SEEMS CLEARLY WRONG TO ME!

The labelling is misleading, dishonest and confusing

How long the adulteration and contamination discovered

I always try and buy stuff like b/e that says 100%beef or chicken.

but i may of had this is

ready meal
burgers served other peoples houses or meals out.
premier inn/beef eater just withdrawn their burgers
burger king has to.

new tests this week show 9/13products at factory contaminated factory is now shut.

Mostly people seem blase if its so safe

why destroy all stock

investigation man raises some valid points

Campbell is the chief public analyst for West Yorkshire and a leading expert on the quality of meat. He will carry out some of the testing as the official investigation into the horsemeat scandal develops.

He said that it was "a reflex" for the UK Food Standards Agency (FSA) to say there was no food safety aspect to scandals of this sort, despite the fact that the law has clearly been broken, which may also mean that it has been broken in other ways.

He questioned whether raw materials could be coming from slaughterhouses that were not approved for processing meat for human consumption, or from unfit horses destined for the knacker's yard but which had instead ended up in the human food chain.

There could also be risks around residues of medicines used for sick animals but not considered safe for the human food chain, he added.

Its total mess and wish they be honest with general public by listing every ingrediant and explaining hat it is an where its come from.

its been an eye opener for me and makes me not trust processed products.

This is good article

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jan/18/horse-burgers-supermarkets-lose-touch-eat?intcmp=239

I do wonder if this is tip of iceberg if other products like readymeals and packs mince will be affected.

Im taking drastic action now even if means going veggie and cant knowingly feed the kids crap no matter how tight our budget is.

edam Sat 19-Jan-13 11:32:43

I used to think my ex-BIL was extreme, saying he wouldn't buy any meat from a supermarket. He has a deal with a local farmer, where every six months BIL buys half a cow the farmer has had slaughtered. (BIL is Italian and cares deeply about the quality of his food.) You do need an enormous freezer for this one, hence half a cow, not a whole one. grin BIL's is in the garage. Used to piss my veggie sister off when they were together.

Now he's looking quite sensible...

edam Sat 19-Jan-13 11:35:50

I'm vegetarian but am not being at all smug about this, especially as ds and dh are not. I buy 100% beef burgers for ds - not the cheapest ones but now I realise 100% doesn't mean 100% actual meat, it means beef filler and other adulterants. Disgusting.

mam29 Sat 19-Jan-13 11:44:39

Ignore the chatter about horsemeat being good for you; this is not an opportunity to amaze with pony recipes, but a vast fraud perpetrated, inevitably, against poorer consumers. Was anyone surprised that the adulteration occurred in "value" products? I am surprised that the outcry has not been louder – so far, most of the tears shed have been for the cute ponies, not for the cute children who obliviously swallowed the cute ponies, and then played with their plastic cousins.

its really sad suspect tesco is higher as they use less beef.

ironic really that the most expensive part the beef has been comprimised by cheap filler which has not only resulted in huge losses for retailers and suppliers but bad pr and downturn in sales in future I suspect.

we keep pointing to europe as they do it.

italians and french are dam site more fussy about what they eat then we are .

I fear lack regulation
customer base
The way uk food retail is
demand for cheap products

made the uk the perfect place to dump this stuff and get away with it as we not too fussy.

we dont really know what goes into our food or where it comes from-sad day.

Even no truths out people not outraged, whats the harm, we want cheap meat, horses are healthy so tesco think they got away with treating uk consumer with such contempt.

amillionyears Sat 19-Jan-13 12:35:47

edam, your ex BIL sounds sensible to me!

That is the thing that struck me most of all about BSE.
Just how far and wide, little itsy bits and pieces of an animal, and bits of animals we might rather not think about,found its way into such a wide variety of things. Like sweets.
So, for one example, people who wanted to be vegetarian, were eating bits of animals without realising it.

amillionyears Sat 19-Jan-13 12:38:02

The one good thing that will come out of it, is there will be a whole new generation of people who will now realise there are massive food issues in the UK.
And, hopefully, some of the posters , and there are many, who say that cat food is fit for human consumption, will maybe realise they are likely to be very far wide of the mark.

Pixel Sat 19-Jan-13 17:00:20

Not really. It seems cat food is still just as fit for human consumption as um..human food is, cos it's looking more and more like the same ingredients!

We do try and buy most of our meat from a proper butcher who sells british meat. There's a great shop in the next town which involves a bit of a trip/awkward parking etc so we go every couple of months to stock up and then fill the freezer. However, like anyone else I do buy stuff elsewhere for convenience, well that's going to stop now. Apart from anything else I think its important to support local businesses when we can, otherwise we'll end up with Tesco et al being our only choice. Goodness knows what they'll try to get away with selling us then!

amillionyears Sat 19-Jan-13 17:08:28

Good points Pixel.

I think the fit for humans part cones from the fact that the canned food is super heated in the can to sterilize it or somethin not so much down to what goes in it. Mind u at least we expect ofal and pot luck meat in pet food so would be eating what we expected as opposed to nasty surprises.

gaelicsheep Sat 19-Jan-13 22:21:41

"Additives made from boiled hide or offcuts of carcasses are typically used to bind in added fat and water and increase the protein levels of economy beef products that have a low meat content. These may legally be identified simply as "seasoning" on the label.-SEASONING THAT SEEMS CLEARLY WRONG TO ME!"

Jesus Fucking Christ!!! I rarely swear on here, but that takes the biscuit. I swear I'm never ever buying meat from a supermarket again - never!

gaelicsheep Sat 19-Jan-13 22:28:06

What really galls me is that by coming out and admitting I bought these bloody things - just once! - it sounds like I just want cheap meat products come what may. I was so naive, assuming so so wrongly that it contained 63% Irish beef (albeit all the bits we don't want to think about) and the rest made up of soya protein and other non-meat filler stuff. I had thought about this and made a reasoned decision, as I have with other products like so-called chicken nuggets from "100% chicken breast". And no I don't even trust mince now either.

I just thank god that only DH and I ate these particular burgers. And biscuit to anyone who continues to make blardy horse jokes.

gaelicsheep Sat 19-Jan-13 22:32:27

One more thing:
"We're proud to say that all our ready meals are made from kitchen cupboard ingredients - that you could cook yourself if you wanted".

Tesco - you lying bastards

mam29 Sat 19-Jan-13 23:41:31

Im with you gaelic sheep. im not regular tesco shopper thse days but other brands are affected they by far the worst though.

what i learnt is 100%beed is any part of that animal can be described as meatsad

Dident realise about the protein fillers.
Looks like thats whats caused problem.

As for the seasoning bit can made me feel naucious.

Then today got told with the frozen roasts they use protein filler gluesadI had an aldis 4bird roast this xmassad

I havent knowingly gone out and brought the cheapest always brought expensive lean fresh mince from uk, occasionally fresh abredeen agus burgers in sumemr from chiler now im wondering about themsad.

Read today maccy ds has more stringent controls.

they micne their own meat and add nothing according to their website.

Went tesco metro over xmas and had couple finest readymeals as they were reduced now think oh god could you trust them with meat again they were duped.

Its made me question my regular butcher and search for a new one.

im investigating local butchers

only order organic from waitrose, able and cole or ocado now.

I normaly shop at sainsburys but they with withdrew stuff to as did local co-op. never realised they all used same supplier.

Furball Sun 20-Jan-13 08:52:02

I said on the other thread

Ready meals with chicken - in sainsburys it says 'this chicken is from either thailand or argentina'

The can't even say where it's from - that to me rings huge bells, They are assuming we are not bothered about where the chicken is from so had done a broad sweep.

Did anyone watch the programme about Jimmy from Jimmys farm? Jimmy was trying to persuade Tesco's to make free range chicken kievs. He had to really fight with tesco's to give it a go for the same price as their usual.

Tesco claim, Chicken Kievs is a really good seller and didn't want to change.

Jimmy managed to source ex free range chicken meat from old egg layers, which were deemed worthless to the UK so shipped to China?? Meanwhile we are buying god knows what in from Thailand and Argentina.

tescos didn't really promote and shoved it at the back of the shelves sad- I bought them, but chicken kievs aint really my thing but had to really search the shelves for them.

Surely if you are buying chicken kiev or any chicken ready meal, you would prefer (and they should be promoting more), ex laying free range chicken from the uk?

Chicken meat is being shipped here there and everyif our own our meat standards will govern from egg to the shelf.

Furball Sun 20-Jan-13 08:53:43

sorry last line should read:-

Chicken meat is being shipped here there and everywhere and if uk meat our meat standards will govern from egg to the shelf.

mam29 Sun 20-Jan-13 10:26:37

Furball weirdly watched it few day ago as nothing on telly and had it recorded on planner and was bit shocked by their attitudes dont think they came across well when i think their pr department thourght they might.

I felt they gave jimmy quite a tight difficult timeline on producing it.
The price-I honestly think they thourght ahh he never do it for that price.Dont you?

Then when he went to irish factory to produce I was like ohh grim we know how that turned out with burgers.

When it came to britsih rose veal wanted to kick into longgrass jimmy wasent even allowed to discuss it.

How can they announce in 2003 saying they commited and 2013 now its words no acion designed to make consumer think that tesco cares.

As for launching new product the promotion was dire.

why wasent on an end?
why wasent it launched and advertised properly.
I suspect thats why sausages failed but having worked for supermarkets they very struct here things should go not even the store manager has much flexibility its ridgid according to head office and buyers as in store we cant see the profit margins they make on certain products.

Im wondering with kiev if same retail price but margin less and they just felt their customer base the ones who buy a £2 chicken wouldent be bothered.

We seen it before with hugh and jaimie chicken out

they either refused to come on and talk
refused to change.
hugh even brought shares just to have a say.

its a dicatorship they subcontracted so much unlike waitrose /morrisions even co-op all have own british farms/butchers which could be there downfall as they not that cheap on price.

Also tbh the chicken might be ok but who knows what tesco would add to breadcrumbs?

I have a chicken based ready meal in freezer cant see origion of chicken on box, brought it reduced on boxing day.
I only went to see if they had good reductions.

Iceland all the frozen poultry is a abroad.

Im giving up birds/eye from now on as despite the 100%beef/chicken lost faith inprocessed foods

Furball Sun 20-Jan-13 10:54:01

I forgot about the veal and sausages. My Tesco had never heard of them, thought I was talking gibberish. - no effort whatsoever.

mam29 Sun 20-Jan-13 11:04:10

it was a pr exercise.

they dident make the effort.

shame he dident choose to work with retailer who cares.

veal makes the look better than horse surly.

be interesting to see how they try and change.

i firsee huge campaign on british foo this year in order try save themselves it can all be about price and race to bottom.
They think their customers dont care about animal welfare.

mam29 Sun 20-Jan-13 11:13:27
amillionyears Sun 20-Jan-13 11:30:13

Having looked at that link, mam29, our food is in an even worse state than I thought.
I knew about some of the things on that list of 10, but not about some of the others.
Ice cream in particular looks bad.
It is amazing that we are all as healthy as we are.

mam29 Sun 20-Jan-13 11:51:18

Im now worried about bread.

I want to know where and whats best to buy as pure as possible.

nothing nasty added.

I dont mind shorter life

I have a freezer.smile

All hose who say whats wrog with horsemeat its gourmet.

well facts are out

its the protein filler from holland thats the culprit.

They could face 1000euro fine not much punishment and deter them doing it again.

Its mostly likly ground up horse bones/carcass imported from argentina/brazil added to british beef-mockery eh might give argentina a chuckle.

As for stuff labelled british it means packed in britain meat could come from elsewhere unless it has red tractor sign.

The fact uk factory still open and supplying iceland yet irish one shut baffles me. They should halt production, clean factort and work out exact source of supplier and check they clean again.

Im hoping its not all icecream. might get icecream maker.

I knew about gelatine as used to be veggie so knew some things.

river cottage highlighted few thngs in past too.

you need to be scinetist to understand the ingrediants really and some have vaugue words like seasoning its so hard.

mam29 Sun 20-Jan-13 12:06:44

definition of meat

The Food Standards Agency has two classifications for burger products - standard and economy.

A standard beefburger can only be classified as such if it comprises a minimum of 62% beef. Similarly, a chicken (or other poultry) or rabbit burger must contain a minimum of 55% meat, and a pork burger 67% minimum pig meat.

The percentages take a tumble when it comes to economy or "value" burger products.

An economy beefburger must contain 47% meat - note, NOT beef!, a chicken burger 41% and a pork burger 50% pig meat.

"Meat" is defined as "skeletal muscle with naturally included or adherent fat and connective tissue" which has not been mechanically stripped from the carcass, delicious!

mam29 Sun 20-Jan-13 12:11:38

There is "filler" .... and there is "MEM" !

"MEM" is "mechanically extruded meat" .... which can include anything from gristle to bone powder !

Animal bones are passed through mechanical scrapers to extrude the last particles of "tissue". This is added to beefbugers, sausages, pet foods etc..

But the worst contents are in "hotdogs" ... a fact that gives them the same quality as dog food. These contents can include any legally-edible "meat" plus rusks, and all sorts of chemicals and enhancers and flavouring.

yuck

.

amillionyears Sun 20-Jan-13 12:27:25

ew.

I used to eat an occasional hotdog.
Have probably only eaten one in the last 5 years.
Shame! It was nice too!

gelatine. After BSE, I tried to avoid a lot of it for years.
Have to say I have relaxed a bit on that.

chewing gum. Never was a fan.

bread. we have a bread maker.
Hoping thats better than shop bread, but it still has to be made from ingredients!

brettgirl2 Sun 20-Jan-13 17:05:10

All these people smugly stating that's why they only eat finest steak mince are somewhat missing the point. This utter crap is all that some people can afford whatever sacrifices they make make elsewhere sad. I doubt many people buy them out of choice!

amillionyears Sun 20-Jan-13 17:29:17

Very good point sad
Some people have said that a proper butcher is actually cheaper for some meat than in a supermarket.
They also have cheaper cuts and different sorts of what should be good quality meat sometimes too.
But, as someone mentioned on here I think, they are not open at all hours of the day and night. And they need a seperate visit, so not often easy in terms of time.

Would say to people, that, in the ones I have been in at least, butchers are very easy to oblige, and enjoy discussing meat cuts and all prices with everyone that walks through their doors. I think they know they have to be anyway, so that they dont lose any more business to the supermarkets.

Blu Sun 20-Jan-13 18:59:49

Hoping thats better than shop bread, but it still has to be made from ingredients!

Flour, dried yeast, salt, sugar, olive oil or butter and some tap water is all that goes in my bread maker - what could be dodgy in those ingrediects?

MissTrust Tue 22-Jan-13 23:17:56

Agree with PurpleStorm and others. Nothing against eating horse meat per se, it's the barefaced deception by the big supermarkets/brands that is wrong. And is it really OK to think that if we pay peanuts for our food (?) we can fully expect to be lied to about what we're really consuming. It shows the utter lack of ethics and scruples these money-worshipping corporates have.

And Tesco are no longer trustworthy in my eyes. I bought a pack of Tesco breaded mushrooms over Xmas only to find a pork sausage among them, coated in breadcrumbs, attempting to resemble a mushroom! Was horrified. I don't eat pig. What is animal product doing anywhere near a vegetarian food?!

I phoned Tesco to let them know about this. With no sense of guilt or apology, they offered to refund the cost of this item to me, just this once! So what, if it happened again, I wouldn't even be offered my money back next time round! I told them to keep their £2.50 and consider my custom lost.

photographerlady Thu 24-Jan-13 13:39:06

tbh if you are buying cheap burgers you know its all kidney skins and brains anyway.

Pixel Thu 24-Jan-13 17:39:53

But farmers are supposed to follow strict rules aren't they? Permitted foodstuffs and drug treatments etc. So whatever part of the animal ends up in the burger (however unsavoury) should be free of such harmful 'ingredients', or so we are told not totally convinced tbh.
Horses, in this country anyway, aren't being reared for their meat so they aren't subject to the same restrictions. Most horses will be given bute at some time in their life (pain killer and anti-inflammatory) as it is normally effective and safe for them, but it is dangerous to humans. We don't worry about this as the horse isn't meant to be destined for human consumption.

I was in the vet's today getting my cat vaccinated and stupidly got my hand a bit too near to where the needle was going to go. The vet said ''we are not supposed to innoculate the owners!" so I said "never mind, Tesco is already giving us bute in the burgers!" (very topical I thought wink). His reply to that was to tell me what other lovely ingredients there are likely to be. According to him there will be birds, rodents, insects etc and whatever else may have fallen into the machine.
Just a little something else to think about next time you fancy a burger which I never will again.

lljkk Thu 24-Jan-13 19:38:13

Read about Silky Shark, Pixel. I worked out he was only 10yo when he was slaughtered; perfectly healthy animal, hazardous to enter the human food chain, just surplus to requirements.

Pixel Thu 24-Jan-13 20:45:27

Unfortunately there are a lot of horses surplus to requirements sad.
Apart from the wild ponies you would be hard-pushed to find any that haven't been given bute at some time in their lives, it's more or less like giving the kids some Calpol.

gaelicsheep Thu 24-Jan-13 21:48:32

photographerlady - please expand on your point, I'm not quite understanding

photographerlady Fri 25-Jan-13 14:25:44

Food Inspectors on BBC this past week made a budget burger. 1/4 is made up of "beef" parts and not meat, this could be a whole host of things gaelicsheep such as brains, fat or other organs. Its not just pig noses and fat in sausages anymore. Most progressed meat is made of parts to some percentage. Burgers, pies, mince, nuggets. Just because it says "beef fat or chicken fat" doesn't mean there isn't a bit of organ attached as well grinded in.

butterfingerz Fri 25-Jan-13 16:09:27

As a meat-eater, why is bad to eat ground offal in a burger/sausage or gelatin in sweets/jelly? Its not dirty, its just an animal by-product. 50 yrs ago, 'tripe' shops were just as popular as chip shops and chinese takeaways today. Offal usually contains far more nutrients than the muscle meat. I dont know why people turn their nose up at the idea of eating anything other than the muscle of an animal.

Smudging Fri 25-Jan-13 16:25:55

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

flatpackhamster Fri 25-Jan-13 16:30:13

It would be if there was any indication that was the case, but there isn't.

Smudging Fri 25-Jan-13 17:01:16

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

amillionyears Fri 25-Jan-13 18:32:35

I dont think we can Smudging.
Sounds like they dont even know themselves sometimes.
Which brings me back to , how often are all the products tested?
I dont think anyone has answered that one.

gaelicsheep Fri 25-Jan-13 19:21:24

Photographerlady - do you think there's something wrong with that then? You think the people who buy the cheaper products that use ALL the poor animal, as opposed to just the expensive bits, deserve to have any old other crap thrown in there for good measure? Bits of other animals, bits of god knows what else, just because they are paying less? What a curious point of view.

gaelicsheep Fri 25-Jan-13 19:30:43

I'm astounded how many people who eat meat with abandon turn their noses up at the idea of eating the rest. The animal.is still killed you know. I for one would rather eat the cheap bits of an animal that has lived and died well than the more expensive bits of one that hasn't. Shame so many people are hypocrites.

photographerlady Fri 25-Jan-13 19:33:02

See a butcher used the whole animal. I have no problem with the offering of drippings, kidneys, organs etc. I do have a problem of cheap meat and byproduct being used coming from unknown and poorly regulated sources (please do remember it was not disclosed where that horse came from I am sure mystery cow meat is in monitored too). I think it's unacceptable to allow this type of budget burger anywhere.

Be thankfully you aren't in the states where there is constant scandal for having feces in the meat from not allowing the meat plant to clean out the guts properly and illegal immigrant workers dying on the job. This happens constantly at the main meat staughter houses providing cheap burgers (both budget and fast food).

gaelicsheep Fri 25-Jan-13 19:36:41

Notwithstanding that, clearly in this case I was being naive and it turns out that the burgers probably contained bits of god knows what animals that had certainly not lived or died well. But the fact the burgers were economy does NOT mean this is OK when I was led to believe otherwise.

gaelicsheep Fri 25-Jan-13 19:43:40

X posted. See I'm not understanding your point. The label stated the burgers contained Irish beef, that's why I bought them. I feel exactly the same as you about budget burgers but by buying these ones I did not sign up to that. In your first post you implied that people like me deserve what they got, is that what you meant? I would like to be able to buy a budget product that uses the yucky bits of a high welfare animal without any unwanted and unlabelled extras. That should be possible, but Iknow now from a supermarket it is not.

gaelicsheep Fri 25-Jan-13 19:46:43

And yes I did know this would be arseholes and eyelids from Irish cows, not prime steak mince.

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