Indian rape victim has died

(67 Posts)
xkittyx Fri 28-Dec-12 22:30:20

Sadly just seen on Al Jazeera that the poor woman who was raped and assaulted earlier in December has died.

Cailleach Fri 28-Dec-12 22:50:47

..and now the more recent victim has died, too.

What a world we live in...

Ponders Fri 28-Dec-12 22:55:06

after what was done to her (the second one, I don't know about the first) it's probably - sadly - better that she died...

but, good grief, what is wrong with those men, to do that to her??? sad angry

Lessthanaballpark Fri 28-Dec-12 22:59:22

I feel so sad. I simply can't imagine what that poor woman must have gone through in those awful moments that ended her life. And I can't imagine how those men could enjoy inflicting such pain on another human being.

I'm glad to see people coming together to stand up against it, and I hope the Indian authorities do something to protect their women, but it makes me so angry that such a heinous crime has to happen before they sit up and take notice.

ripsishere Fri 28-Dec-12 23:15:37

I am gutted. I honestly, and probably stupidly though that heinous crime would bring about some change.
I also, naively thought that going to Singapore would enhance her chances of a full survival and recovery.
Poor poor woman. RIP.

EnjoyResponsibly Fri 28-Dec-12 23:17:10

Poor girl.

I pray for her family in their hideous grief.

I am uplifted bŷ the images of young Indians protesting against violence toward women.

The Indian government must surely act.

funnyperson Sun 30-Dec-12 06:42:46

This 23 year old student was raped having gone to see the 'Life of Pi' at a very popular upmarket cinema in Delhi, returning at 9 pm back home to a middle class area with her civil engineer boyfriend. The moving bus passed 3 police checkpoints while she was being gang raped and the rusty dirty jack used to change tyres was inserted in her 'because she resisted' causing her guts to spill out. Her boyfriend (also attacked and badly injured) and her were thrown off the moving bus naked and injured.
The national outrage is totally justified. This lady could have been anyone's sister or daughter in India.
The crime comes after a decade of constant sexual assault by ordinary young men on most young ladies in Delhi buses, aka 'eve teasing'. Male attitudes accepting this continuing level of outrage are so entrenched that even in this terrible case, the presidents son, and members of parliament of every party have expressed sexist remarks. Luckily the president's daughter rebuked her brother. The Mayor of Delhi said it was 'OK'. A Rajasthan State Assembly member suggested this week that girls in Jaipur do not wear skirts for school uniform. The 21st century Indian male psyche needs to change.
Because rape allegations are not pursued by the police, because sexual assault and rape are not seen as the fault of the male, this case has inspired widespread protest. Enough is enough. The young girls of India and their brothers and fathers and mothers are determined that this should not happen again, and that students must be able in future to see a film and board a bus home in safety.
This courageous young lady, who survived to give admissible evidence, will not have died in vain.
Her case and the support for her have ensured that the perpetrators have been caught and will ensure that Delhi police and Indian police elsewhere will never again ignore rape victims' need for justice. India will be a safer country.
She was transported to Singapore at govt expense due to the protests causing practically a state of emergency in Delhi with the death of a police officer.

Poor brave girl sad

funnyperson Sun 30-Dec-12 06:55:02

The police have also come under scrutiny and criticism for hitting peaceful protesters with batons and subjecting them to water cannon. In the world's largest democracy, protest is seen as the national right.

From the prime ministers' viewpoint the protests are an embarrassment and a nuisance as they coincide with a Putin visit, causing disruption to travel and the central secretariat in Delhi. Sonia Gandhi here is not coming across as her usual decisive self. This movement is necessary and vital for change and it is coming from the young people of both sexes- you can see that girls have sent their brothers out - and I whole heartedly support it.

Itsjustmeanon Sun 30-Dec-12 14:10:00

I feel so sad and disgusted about this. I hope change happens.

Smudging Sun 30-Dec-12 20:56:33

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Masai Sun 30-Dec-12 21:45:37

As a pakistani and Indian woman this sexist nature that our men have is nothing new. I've seen it first hand growing up. Boys are elevated to Godlike status within families and women even if very well educated (I'm from a family of Doctors, lawyers etc) are still second rate. It sickens me beyond belief that I'm often talked down to and treated as if my opinion is less valid and my uneducated brother who cant hold down a job or relationship is seen as the golden child.

The majority of asian men treat women like dogshit. And thats a fact.
Most of them are not very attractive yet demand that mummy finds them a drop dead gorgeous fair skinned bride from back home thats malleable. Racism and sexism is rife in our culture.

The roots lie in a vicious patriarchal system thats been there for hundreds of years. And it ain't ever gonna change.

It matters not one jot how cultured, urbane or westernised they seem to you. Behind the closed doors in an asian family the woman is expected to know her place.

zombiemum Tue 01-Jan-13 17:06:07


Sadly, I agree with everything you have said.

It is horrific in the extreme what that poor girl was subjected to.

funnyperson Wed 02-Jan-13 05:58:25

Actually I disagree with Masai lots of Asian men are lovely even behind closed doors. In our family the ladies always have the last word, and the men do equal washing up and cooking.

funnyperson Wed 02-Jan-13 05:58:53

In fact its English men wo habe always seemed very sexist to us.

funnyperson Wed 02-Jan-13 05:59:06

who have


I am a bit surprised that this case did not create more waves on MN tbh.
I read in a German newspaper that something like 55000 rapes were reported in India every year which is considered to be the tip of the iceberg. Apparently 94% of these attacks are committed by fathers/brother/uncles/other family member. Often the girl/woman in question is then punished as her honour is destroyed.

Mad world or what?

866 female live births vs 1000 male in urban areas in India.
No gender selection prenatally of course hmmangry.

xkittyx Wed 02-Jan-13 18:58:09

I'm surprised as well that it's not seen more traffic on here. Nothing even in Feminism apart from a petition posted with barely any responses.
What happened is beyond horrific in itself and from what I've been reading is the tip of a dreadful iceberg of abuse and harrassment of women on a massive scale in India.
I wonder if the case is so horrific that it's horrible to think or talk about? I kept thinking about the poor woman a few days ago and actually felt a bit shaky and in shock.
Depressingly, I suspect that far from being a one-off this was just the case that made the news.

ripsishere Thu 03-Jan-13 05:09:56

Agree xkitty.
I've just seen in our daily newspaper that there isn't a lawyer prepared to represent any of the men who have been charged.
It's a start.

funnyperson Thu 03-Jan-13 20:16:27

Though it is important that they get a fair trial, which is one reason why the prosecution has been at pains to gather evidence.

It is not hard to explain why this case is so shocking and perhaps there is silence because it needs no explanation. All women everywhere should be able to go home safely having watched a film. There are few who will think otherwise, and especially in Delhi and in India where film going is a core activity which every person in every village and town expects to be able to do. The cinema in Saket is one of Delhi's most modern and well regarded- a place where everyone might expect to go safely- fabulously comfortable clean seats, nice food , spotless place, dolby surround sound, large screen etc, not cheap. The girl could have been anyone's daughter in that aspiring country.

The other reason there is silence is the waiting- all the citizens of Delhi are waiting sombrely for the legal sentence. In this country of non -violence although the death sentence is legal it is rarely implemented. yet few doubt that it will be implemented in this case. Schools have been closed till Jan 12th 'because of the cold'.

The risk of mobs lynching the police (one police officer has already died) who have been percieved to be colluders, or men on buses is very real. The risk of ladies being molested in the run up to the case is very real. Delhi is in lockdown.With reason. This is no Taliban or burqua country-this is a large and proud democracy where women voters outnumber the men.

funnyperson Thu 03-Jan-13 20:24:49

There is also the question of how this case will affect aspiring families. Indians have always been willing to support the girls being educated. But if this case affects family perceptions of the safety of a daughter gone away to study then that trend could be reversed, and this would be a very unfortunate step backwards for the country.

There is also the question of buses which ply a trade outside of their normal contract and license. The double economy of India. An elephant too large to bite.

LadyMaryChristmas Thu 03-Jan-13 20:29:49

Poor young women. sad 2013 and things like this still happen. I'm surprised there isn't more posts on this thread.

funnyperson Thu 03-Jan-13 20:30:29
nethunsreject Thu 03-Jan-13 20:33:15


Absolutely shocking case; sadly far from unique.

Hope it may lead to some changes in societal attitudes.

I also hope that us westerners bear in mind that we are not a lot further forward really, as many people who have reported sexual abuse, assault or rape will know.

funnyperson Thu 03-Jan-13 20:33:20

Do you think there are few posts because people feel it is the sort of thing which simply wouldn't happen in England?
Yet I remember a thread not so long ago about a young girl who was raped within yards of her mother waiting to pick her up in the car because she didn't have the £2 for the bus fare home. It was never clear whether the rapist was sentenced.

nethunsreject Thu 03-Jan-13 20:34:43

x-post funnyperson. Aye, perhaps. But things like this happen to women (and men) the world over. Things are improving here definitely, but a hell of a long way to go.

nethunsreject Thu 03-Jan-13 20:36:05

That was me agreeing with you, btw! Sorry, not very eloquent tonight smile

LadyMaryChristmas Thu 03-Jan-13 20:37:15

It doesn't matter where it happened. sad I remember that case, funny. Yes, he was sentenced and the bus company were dragged through the media for it. As far as I can gather, the victim is still recovering. sad

Surely we all have rights, no matter which country we live in, rights to basic healthcare and the right to be safe? I've never considered myself to be a feminist but the more inequalities I see the angrier I get. I'd like to do something, I've no idea what yet though. The voice of one is very quiet, the voice of many can move mountains and all of that.

Meglet Thu 03-Jan-13 20:42:15

Is the trial being rushed through while the schools are closed?

funnyperson Thu 03-Jan-13 20:43:53

I don't know. No one really knows as there is no precedent thankfully.

ComeIntoTheGardenMaud Thu 03-Jan-13 20:48:56

Are you in India at the moment, funnyperson?

I suspect there are few posts here because it is hard to say anything that doesn't sound trite about such a despicable crime.

funnyperson Thu 03-Jan-13 21:13:23

Hello Maud! No I am not- but friends on facebook are keeping me posted and the Indian newspapers are available on line. As you know even with facebook there are limitations as most wise people will limit remarks. I went to school in Delhi so all my old school batch have been nattering, as to be expected. We come from the generation who would never have gone out after dark with a boyfriend but we also come from the generation who have sons and daughters who definitely expect to go out after dark with their boyfriends/girlfriends, to cinemas and clubbing or whatever in delhi or anywhere else in the world. No one of my acquaintance would have used a bus at that time of night, and the young lady and man in question were not from a Delhi family which is presumably why they got on a bus at all at that time, but that is not the point: the crime is heinous and unforgivable.

The laws used to prevent gatherings of more than 5 people near India Gate etc after the police officer died are the laws of a state of emergency. The last time they were invoked was in Indira Gandhi's time. If history is anything to go by, the politics is about to undergo a deep sea change and most of this will not be apparent in the media. I suspect that women will be voting for the people most likely to keep them safe.

But what about the men? Rape has a strange place in India's history- the mogul invasions and the riots during partition were marked by rape and pillage so I'm not sure how the Indian male subconscious is going to deal with this episode. Thankfully neither religion nor caste was a factor, and oddly as it turned out, probably not class either. The UN has already stated that India is one of the most discriminatory places in the world for women. Cases like this may make that worse not better. It would be very interesting to know what the men think. Sorry for the long post.

ComeIntoTheGardenMaud Thu 03-Jan-13 21:16:59

No, please keep posting. Your insights are interesting, even though they make sometimes uncomfortable reading.

BornInACrossFireHurricane Thu 03-Jan-13 21:18:52

I have been feeling so sick and angry about this.

What is the likely outcome in terms of sentencing? (I am not familiar with the legal system there at all)

That poor, poor girl.

funnyperson Thu 03-Jan-13 21:20:25

Oh dear. DD thinks I dont blame the men enough. She goes on slutwalks and is a feminist. I do blame the men. I'm not sure the men blame the men.

funnyperson Thu 03-Jan-13 21:22:16
nailak Thu 03-Jan-13 21:25:42

the maximum penalty for murder is the death penalty.

ComeIntoTheGardenMaud Thu 03-Jan-13 21:26:10

And that, I think, is the key. Until the men blame the men, progress will be limited and slow.

nailak Thu 03-Jan-13 21:26:57

funny why does your dd say that? I have come accross some people online who i think dont blame the men enough, those who say getting the bus at that time is dangerous etc, is it true?

funnyperson, see, it just took an interesting insight to get this thread going wink. Good on your DD!
I had not quite picked up on just how tense the situation seems to be in India from what you are saying. How worrying.

I am finding myself becoming a more and more angry feminist with advancing middle-age. Tbh, I don't see how anybody with female genitalia and the desire to have sole control over what happens to them, can NOT be a feminist.
I am poorly read on the subject (cannot bear the thought of getting ever more angry as I am actually quite a cheeful soul - the Politics of Breastfeeding almost caused me apoplexyblush) and at best lurk on the feminism boards and some blogs.

Wrt to this horrible case, I particularly liked the posters some of the demonstators in India had, stating 'Don't get rape d' - so true.
It would be horrendous if cases like this ment that girls/women go out less, whether by their own volition or on family pressure/concern. And yes, until men blame men not much will change.
I suspect I am a bit of a bleeding heart liberal, but I cannot find myself wishing for the death penalty for the men involved. I feel that would almost let them off the hook by being too final IYKWIM. Lifelong hard labour? Chemical castration? Both??
I really don't know. NOTHING will bring this girl and her friend back sad.

funnyperson Thu 03-Jan-13 21:52:56

At the beginning I was quite 'soft' too - not in favour of the death penalty. But now I think it is really important that if the evidence proves that these men did what it is said they did, that this is a 'rarest of the rare' crime, and so the death penalty should be imposed. Otherwise all other men committing rape will think they can get away with it and all women will think that the Indian judiciary will allow men to get away with it.

ComeIntoTheGardenMaud Thu 03-Jan-13 22:02:00

I tend to think you're right, funnyperson. I don't, at heart, support the death penalty, but I think the logic of this case is that, if convicted, these men must surely deserve the most serious penalty that local law can provide.

Wishfulmakeupping Thu 03-Jan-13 22:02:53

The poor poor girl- this literally hurts my heart. I hope that something good can come out of this sickening situation and attitudes are changed, how can this happen in this day and age fucked up

I can see that, of course.
There are just no words to express my utter failure to comprehend how these things happen over and over again, and always have done angrysad.

funnyperson Thu 03-Jan-13 22:25:43

pacificdogwood what you say about things happening again and again simply has to be resisted. Firstly as with all things there are safer places to be and not so safe places to be and so we can all aspire to make the place we live in one of the safer places. By simply not accepting that criminals should go unchallenged or unpunished. By instilling mutual respect in our sons and daughters, nephews and nieces. By helping our daughters and sons to realise they have the right to say 'no' as well as the right to say 'yes'.
And yes, and I know that I am middle aged, and perhaps not everyone will agree with me, but by being sensible about when and how we travel late at night and what we wear and who we travel with and letting the DC know what we think is sensible and looking out for our young and teaching them about stranger danger and waking up and slogging out in the dark to pick them up from z's house party and taking self defence classes and all of that. And I dont care that DD says all of that is a load of old cobblers because I think if we didn't do all of that things would be worse than they are and we parents do all of that so that our young can live and be confident enough to tell us what a load of old squares we are. But old squares cant be with their daughters and sons the whole time so there comes a point when it is down to the police and the judiciary and the government to help make a city or a country safe from criminals.

xkittyx Thu 03-Jan-13 23:32:29

funnyperson I see what you mean about being sensible whilst at the same time disagreeing with you, in that the onus is put back on the victim/potential victim rather than the perpeptrator not to do something horrible in the first place.
But while I agree with your DD, I do completely understand why you would want your children safe at all costs rather than see them at risk proving a point about what should be right.
It makes me so angry to think that women have to alter their behaviour, curtail their own freedoms for fear of something terrible happening to them. Even though it's something I myself do.
In terms of this case and the death penalty - I too normally oppose the death penalty but I can't feel any opposition to these men being put to death. I view them as being irredeemable.
Time will tell if this case has any impact or represents the start of any sort of change of attitude. I really hope so.
I'm originally from a country with a staggeringly high rate of rape and rape/murder of women and children and every so often there is case of such staggering horror and barbarity one thinks, surely now, surely something must begin to give, but sadly it never does and the attacks seem to go on and on and on.

ComeIntoTheGardenMaud Fri 04-Jan-13 00:03:36

I hear what you're saying, xkitty, but (with some reluctance) I agree with funnyperson about taking a precautionary approach. The unpalatable truth, I think, is that if you know that you live in a society, culture, environment where sexism and casual violence against women are rife, then you do need to modify your behaviour accordingly. And then, of course, you try to bring about change so that the sexism and violence ends. It's an imperfect analogy, obviously, but there's a parallel with swimming in a shark-infested pool - the main priority is to get the shark out of the pool but, until then, don't dive in.

xkittyx Fri 04-Jan-13 00:15:39

ComeIntoTheGarden, I do personally modify my behaviour - and when back visiting my home country, I modify it heavily - I'd be far too afraid not to.
However, I will not point a finger of blame at anyone for being the victim of a crime. If a woman is raped or attacked, the blame lies wholly and entirely with her attacker. If we start asking her to accept a portion of the blame, we're on a terribly slippery slope.
Also, the other reality is that some woman have little choice in terms of their safety. When I'm back home I'm with my husband, we have a private vehicle, stay in secure accommodation and there is private security. Many woman live in deprived areas with massive crime rates, inadequate policing, unregulated public transport. They might work a long way away from where they live, and work odd hours. These women run a daily risk of being attacked, not for being out partying, not for a choice, but simply going to and from work. They can't stay indoors - they and their children would starve.
It's heart-breaking - women in most of the world have such limited choice.

Theala Fri 04-Jan-13 00:40:06

_xkittyx Fri 04-Jan-13 00:15:39
ComeIntoTheGarden, I do personally modify my behaviour - and when back visiting my home country, I modify it heavily - I'd be far too afraid not to.
However, I will not point a finger of blame at anyone for being the victim of a crime. If a woman is raped or attacked, the blame lies wholly and entirely with her attacker. If we start asking her to accept a portion of the blame, we're on a terribly slippery slope.
Also, the other reality is that some woman have little choice in terms of their safety. When I'm back home I'm with my husband, we have a private vehicle, stay in secure accommodation and there is private security. Many woman live in deprived areas with massive crime rates, inadequate policing, unregulated public transport. They might work a long way away from where they live, and work odd hours. These women run a daily risk of being attacked, not for being out partying, not for a choice, but simply going to and from work. They can't stay indoors - they and their children would starve. _

This. A friend of mine's 14-year-old daughter recently told me that she is quite happy to move (with her parents) to another city in our country, as she will finally be able to wear a skirt. She doesn't feel comfortable wearing a skirt at the moment, as it will attract too much attention. We live in Europe.

I feel sick to my stomach every time I think about that poor woman in India. I want to do something but I don't know what I can do. I feel so angry, impotent, and diminished. What can we in Europe do? Tell us, please.

ComeIntoTheGardenMaud Fri 04-Jan-13 10:02:35

I have not suggested that victims should be blamed and hope my remarks have not been interpreted that way. Culpability rests entirely with the offender. All I am suggesting is that (conversely) women who make choices about (for example) how to dress should not be criticised either - often there seems to be an implication that they are propping up the status quo and that seems to me to be criticism under another guise.. Xkittyx makes some good points about how limited the choices about self protection can be, in any case.

2rebecca Fri 04-Jan-13 12:58:10

Very sad case, I think the reason few women are commenting on it is that there is no real argument to be had here. it was a horrible crime and the murderers deserve a very unpleasant punishment. I read somewhere that after she got thrown off the bus it took 40 minutes before anyone called police or ambulance despite it being a crowded area. That is awful as well.

Meglet Fri 04-Jan-13 22:40:11

I've found a couple of Tweeters who are based in India and been following them and their links. It's so horrific I suppose I'm just waiting with baited breath and hoping the attackers are locked up for life.

I too am torn between feeling that nobody should put themselves in harm's way by avoiding 'risky' behaviour/dress/areas and at the same time feeling v strongly that the length of your skirt or where you are when does NOT give anybody the right to attack.

I am currently trying to teach my 4 year old DS3 that he can only kiss people who want to be kissed - he is currently using kisses to really, really annoy his older brother grin. The phrase 'You may only kiss somebody who wants to be kissed' is heard several times a day in this house at present. I can only hope that this will count as a first lession to not force himself on anybody ever...

2rebecca Fri 04-Jan-13 23:04:45

Anyone else noticed she has had a career change over the past week? When I first heard about this case she was described as a physio student, the first one in her family to go to college and now she is being described as a medical student. Seems very odd, what does it matter how middle class her future career was?

ComeIntoTheGardenMaud Fri 04-Jan-13 23:24:40

I agree, PacificDogwood, that nothing - skirt length, being out late at night or anything else - gives anyone the right to attack another person. But the difficulty (as I see it) is that some people act in a way to which they have no right.

rhondajean Fri 04-Jan-13 23:36:19

Ill apologis first as I know little of Indian law Erc but I read a disturbing comment earlier on an Indian news site. The latest that has come out us that the youngest attacker was most vicious. It's been widely reported today he disembowelled the girl with his hands. They are using a bone test to identify his age and whether he is tried as an adult it a juvenile.

This comment suggested they may try to vary him as the killer and a juvenile meaning he gets four years detention and the other men be tried on reduced charges. I realise there dies seem to be an issue with corruption in the police and courts but surely that couldn't happen?

rhondajean Fri 04-Jan-13 23:37:00

Sorry typing on my phone is awful!

that nothing - skirt length, being out late at night or anything else - gives anyone the right to attack another person. But the difficulty (as I see it) is that some people act in a way to which they have no right.

Exactly that. No matter what you wear or where you are a rapist is a rapist. People seem to side with the rapist tbh. That's my personal experience anyway.

I hope these men suffer.

reallylittlelass Sun 06-Jan-13 13:29:58
Since I have heard of this story, I keep crying. What a shit world we live in sometimes. I hear murders and horrid stories all the time, so I don't know why this one has hit me so hard, everytime I hear or see an article on this, I start crying and feel really panicky, and seeing the dads face has made me so sad.

The men accused are in court today.

Everytime I think about what she and her friend must have gone through, my stomach turns.
Apart from the obvious feminist issue with any rape, what I cannot get my head around is any human being inflicting this kind of sustained suffering on any other human being. I couldn't hurt an animal deliberately. I just fail to comprehend this altogether.

And yes, the poor family. And all the families affected by rape and murder sad.

funnyperson Mon 07-Jan-13 14:39:39

It is not at all clear if the father gave permission to reveal the girl's name. Apparently he has since denied giving permission and the legal process to get court permission to reveal her name was not followed. Typical Daily Mail trying to get a 'scoop' at any cost. Other newspapers are not publishing the name

funnyperson Mon 07-Jan-13 14:41:11

I agree with posters above. This case is making me feel very uncomfortable.

Walnutcakelover Mon 07-Jan-13 16:11:34

This case has made me extremely sad, feel really devastated sad

funnyperson Tue 08-Jan-13 15:51:59

I'm very encouraged by the demonstration outside the Indian High Commission in London yesterday.
The legalities are v. interesting. India's police and prosecution and judiciary are on trial as much as the perpetrators. It will be interesting to see whether, even with a will to do so, the courts will be able to bring the criminals to book at all, following a fair trial, let alone impose a severe penalty. The perpetrators simply have to deny everything and/or blame it on the juvenile and they might have a reasonable chance of getting off.
As to the case of the juvenile perpetrator, this throws up an important anomaly in the Indian legal system which doesn't exist in the English system.

A guru has been quoted (in the Sun blush - sitting in the barber's waiting for my DS's hair to be cut...) as saying that this 'mistake' (sic) was as much the victim's fault as her attackers as she should have 'prayed' with them.
Blame the victim. Not for the length of her skirt. Or the company she kept. Or her previous 'moral' record.
But her spirituality. I am speechless.

I do hope her family had actually given their consent to have her name published. It'd be awful if there suffering was increased by press intrusion when it had not been wanted.

I gather 2 of the accused are pleading Not Guilty to all charges?

funnyperson Wed 09-Jan-13 21:25:10

I dont think this will be an open and shut legal case. After all there are only two witnesses and they are the victims, one of whom is dead and the other didn't actually see all of what happened. Unless the 6 perpetrators have confessed.

Yes the guru has been outrageous. Sad, as there has been a silence from religious leaders on this front, perhaps because most of them are at a major religious festival atm. But Indians tend to take their cue from spiritual leaders- India is often called the 'veneration nation', with reason, so the silence is not a good thing for modern Indian women.
There was a lovely dressing down of the guru from a political leader Member of Parliament though

Join the discussion

Join the discussion

Registering is free, easy, and means you can join in the discussion, get discounts, win prizes and lots more.

Register now