Most Tory freshers pretend they’re Labour

(65 Posts)
claig Mon 03-Dec-12 14:39:14

I knew things were bad, but I never realised just how bad.
I knew we had sunk, but didn't realise to what depths.

Why has no one called for a public inquiry - judicial or otherwise?

www.telegraph.co.uk/education/universityeducation/9714190/Petronella-Wyatt-I-was-bullied-out-of-Oxford-for-being-a-Tory.html

MoreBeta Mon 03-Dec-12 14:48:21

I doubt it is any worse/different from what it was in my day.

"Conservative members of Corpus Christi College’s junior common room (JCR) claim they are “often actively isolated, personally attacked and made to feel unwelcome” because of their political views."

Corpus is my old college and in those days it was a pretty left wing place. Being outnumbered 4:1 Labour:Tory was pretty much normal in those days. Margaret Thatcher was a lot fresher in people's memory back then so some of the debates were pretty heated.

claig Mon 03-Dec-12 14:52:32

'Being outnumbered 4:1 Labour:Tory was pretty much normal in those days'

No wonder the country is in such a mess and has declined from its Tory heyday. Shouldn't something, somewhere, somehow be done to set things right. This appears to be bullying of the most vicious sort.

FellatioNelson Mon 03-Dec-12 14:53:36

A bit like MN then. wink

claig Mon 03-Dec-12 14:56:55

FellatioNelson, you're right. It's the same everywhere. The country is going to the dogs, it's hurtling to hell in a handcart and the Daily Mail appears to be the only brake on the descent.

MoreBeta Mon 03-Dec-12 15:09:56

I read something the other day about the breakdown of democracy.

It happens at the point that the populus realises that it can give itself money by voting in a certain candidate/party. This is the stage we have reached in the Western World where in pretty much every country more than 50% of the population live on state funded benefits/pensions or has a job working for the Govt. This really is what the entire 'Fiscal Cliff' debate is about in the USA at the moment and what Mitt Romney meant by his comment before the election:

"There are 47 percent of the people who will vote for the president no matter what. All right, there are 47 percent who are with him, who are dependent upon government, who believe that they are victims, who believe the government has a responsibility to care for them, who believe that they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing, to you-name-it. ... My job is not to worry about those people. I'll never convince them they should take personal responsibility and care for their lives."

I dont agree with much of Romney's politics but he was right on the issue of the basic maths of this. Of course the liberal press were outraged in the US and UK characterising it as 'an attack on the poor'. It wasn't.

MrsHoarder Mon 03-Dec-12 15:21:21

Ffs. You aren't required to make your vote public and most anti-tories are that way because they are worried about others, not just getting themselves a state handout.

If a political party can't tell the majority of the population why life for them will be better, then of course they're going to be unpopular. B.S. aside, DC didn't really sell how the tories would run the country well at all.

claig Mon 03-Dec-12 15:27:33

I think it is safe to say that one Tory fresher who did not pretend to be Labour was the Right Honourable Michael Gove.

Am watching him answering Education Questions now and it is a masterclass of rigour and vigour. There was chaep jibe that someone had said they were happy to see that Gove agreed that English teaching had to move into a new century, but that unforunately he had chosen the 19th Century.

There was much laughter from the Labour benches. Everyone awaited Gove's response. Would he crumble under that attack? Would he heck!

He straightened his glasses, rose to full stature and gave Labour the full onslaught. He said that authors like Jane Austen, Dickens, Hardy and Eliot were the sort of authors he wanted children to study.

If Gove can't turn things around, then no one can.

MoreBeta Mon 03-Dec-12 15:44:54

MrsHoarder - I agree DC has been useless. I still dont know what he wants to do.

That said, it is clear that all parties are frightened of the 'grey vote' and just about the only pledge I remember DC making was to keep free bus passes. The 'grey vote' is powerful and votes for its 'free bus pass, Winter Fuel Allowance, discounted council tax, free TV licence, free prescriptions and pension increases. Pensioners vote for their benefits and scream outrage if anyone dares to take them off them.

No one dares to say no - not even Tory politicians.

MoreBeta Mon 03-Dec-12 15:45:45

claig - I hugely admire Gove and I do think he really cares about education.

slug Mon 03-Dec-12 15:48:51

The more claig posts the more I'm convinced it's a parody account.

There was much laughter from the Labour benches. Everyone awaited Gove's response. Would he crumble under that attack? Would he heck!

He straightened his glasses, rose to full stature and gave Labour the full onslaught. He said that authors like Jane Austen, Dickens, Hardy and Eliot were the sort of authors he wanted children to study.

<<snort>>

BoulevardOfBrokenSleep Mon 03-Dec-12 16:05:57

Did anyone ask Gove about the missing billion he's spunked on his academy project? <hopeful>

It's all right though, we have the money to spare since the Tories fixed the economy with the old Plan A.

Re: the Corpus JCR story; I recall the white heterosexual males in college being pissed off about there being a women's rep, LGB rep etc and often tabling fatuous motions about protecting their own rights. I strongly suspect this is another one of those.

DorisIsWaiting Mon 03-Dec-12 16:09:21

Slug- I think you hit the nail on the head.

Rather than bleating on about bullying (Ha!) maybe the Tories need to think why they are SO unpopular. Um... going back on promises left right an centre (vote on Europe, changes to the NHS, dismantling of the welfare state etc etc)

I have no natural affliation with any party but I can honestly say the Tories make me feel they want to turn back the clock, sadly to a time when the rich were richer and the pooor were well and truly sunk. Gove banging on about this type of education only underlines this... He seems to believe in a "Well it was fine for me" one size fits all policy.

With regard to the reason so many are on benefits of one form or another is because emoplyers (small and large, and Government itself DO NOT PAY a living wage). If work was renumerated at a level able to support a family I.e. companies prioritising workers over shareholders. The country could lose a whole tier of benefits

Cozy9 Mon 03-Dec-12 16:19:08

Most of the Labour freshers are just rebelling against mummy and daddy, they'll come round to voting Tory by the age of 30, if not before.

claig Mon 03-Dec-12 16:20:53

Cozy9, we can only hope so!

claig Mon 03-Dec-12 16:22:19

'claig - I hugely admire Gove and I do think he really cares about education.'

MoreBeta, you are not alone!

MoreBeta Mon 03-Dec-12 16:22:54

Cozy9 - that true.

Many of the really hard left wingers had parents living in the nicer bits of London and immediately on leaving college went off to work for investment banks or married someone who worked for an investment bank.

MoreBeta Mon 03-Dec-12 16:26:45

We had all the usual Thatcher Destroyed The Miners type debates when I was at college.

Funny thing was I was born in a mining area and we had a young miner came to work for us on our farm during the strike as he was too frightened to break the strike. DW actually had a miner living next door when she went home to see her parents.

Both Tory voters we were the only people who had actually met a miner in the college.

BoulevardOfBrokenSleep Mon 03-Dec-12 17:19:47

I just went to google up membership numbers for the two parties' Oxford student branches, for comparison purposes.

Couldn't find it easily, but I think it's indicative that I thought, OK, so I'm looking for OUCA, and, er... (it's OULC by the way)

I also found an explanation of the history of the Corpus thing:

"In 2011 the Oxford Student newspaper was leaked video footage of an OCA member singing the first line of a song glorifying the Nazi Party in the Corpus Christi JCR following an OCA meeting at The Oxford Union.

The alleged incidents occurred in 2010. Current and former members of the association have strongly criticised all racism, with some members resigning, and the university launched an investigation into the society as a result of the reports.

The Dean of Corpus Christi has subsequently banned all OCA events at the college, indefinitely. "

Source = Wikipedia, so you know it's gold wink

So that's why the Corpus Conservatives feel their rights are being imposed upon.
While I realise there is a Voltairesque debate to be had on the issue, I've got to confess my sympathy for them is limited.

ttosca Mon 03-Dec-12 23:40:43

There's generally hostility to the Tory's because the party is mainly composed to mendacious psychopaths.

It's really shouldn't surprise anyone that people feel hostility to a political party which is basically waging war on the poor, killing disabled people, and attempting to dismantle the hard-won rights that people have fought for over decades and centuries.

If there is any stigma of being a Tory, then society is doing something right.

Cozy9 Tue 04-Dec-12 18:33:16

What a load of balls, ttosca.

Lifeissweet Tue 04-Dec-12 18:37:56

Obviously, they are not talking about Exeter University. Being a Tory (and preferably a Thatcherite) there is a badge of honour.

StNickHasHisXmasTeakozyOn Tue 04-Dec-12 21:24:17

Prove it Cozy9. Prove that over 10000 people haven't died just after being cured by Atos 'Healthcare'. While you're at it, prove that lowering housing benefit won't hit thousands of people, including those beloved of ShinyCamoron, 'hard working families'.

There's loads in the mainstream media that proves the opposite of what you're saying.

The Toryscum are hated because they're committing economic terrorism upon anyone who isn't massively rich.

Smudging Tue 04-Dec-12 21:34:16

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

claig Tue 04-Dec-12 22:38:41

grin
You've got to have a bit of a laugh about it all sometimes.
That was the only way that the British public kept its chin up and its spirits high under the dark, stark, barking days of New Labour when we were told that we only had at most "50 days to save the planet".

Cozy9 Tue 04-Dec-12 23:32:26

Lowering housing benefit will hit thousands of people, but it has to be done. What is the alternative?

Thousands of disabled people died every year before ATOS even existed. Not giving people money isn't "stealing" from them!

The level of entitlement we have in this country is ridiculous, and is not what the welfare state was intended to do. If we had kept going the way we were under Labour, eventually we'd have disaster and a bankrupt state.

BoulevardOfBrokenSleep Tue 04-Dec-12 23:39:58

"What is the alternative?"

Crazy plans like getting companies who make profits in this country, to pay taxes in this country? That sort of thing maybe...?

LittleTyga Tue 04-Dec-12 23:52:23

Re housing benefit - my friend lives in a cold damp one bed flat with no outside space and her LL charges her local council £500 pw for her to live there with her son.
All other flats in the area are about £200 pw but for that they are top notch luxury ones - perhaps if they looked in to LL ripping off tax payers instead of blaming HB claimants that might help reduce the HB bill?

Autumnalis Tue 04-Dec-12 23:57:26

Claig - mischievous or mad?

ravenAK Wed 05-Dec-12 00:01:40

I'm not sure they're mutually exclusive, but I do enjoy her posts, especially the Weeble-like adulation of the Idiot Gove.

claig Wed 05-Dec-12 00:03:15

mischievous - yes, slightly
mad - absolutely.
Mad at injustice and lies and spin, mad at taxpayer subsidies to rich landowners for inefficient windfarms while people are having their benefits cut, mad at green subsidies that are pushing up energy prices for struggling people in a time of austerity.

claig Wed 05-Dec-12 00:07:54

ravenAK, did you not see how Gove dealt with the Labour benches at Education Questions. It was akin to a cat toying with mice, it was like Jerry outwitting Tom, it was like a colossus compared to an ant - the calm, assured way that Gove swatted off the nuisance of the Labour rants.

ttosca Wed 05-Dec-12 00:32:36

Cozy9

Lowering housing benefit will hit thousands of people, but it has to be done. What is the alternative?

Build more houses and put in rent controls, so that there isn't a chronic shortage of houses, and landlords aren't allowed to get away with extortionate rents?

Thousands of disabled people died every year before ATOS even existed.

This is disingenuous. More disabled people are dying after being told they were 'fit for work' than those who were not or those expected to die generally. That is to say, there are hundreds, maybe thousands of people dying prematurely as a result of Atos assessments.

You can read some Atos victims stories here:

http://atosvictimsgroup.co.uk/category/personal-stories/

Or just Google Atos stories.

Not giving people money isn't "stealing" from them!

When disabled and vulnerable people rely on state support to survive and are denied this support, you should probably call it murder.

The level of entitlement we have in this country is ridiculous, and is not what the welfare state was intended to do.

Put down the copy of the Daily Mail and investigate the facts for yourselves. Welfare provision in the UK is not especially generous. It is in the mid range of the EU. The largest cost of welfare spending in the UK is not DLA or JSA, but pensions.

The level of fraud, according to the DWPs own figures, for benefits claims is consistently below 5%. The highest level is Jobseekers Allowance, which is just below 5%. For Disability Living Allowance this figure is less than 1%.

What's happening is that the Tory scum are making the poorest and most vulnerable pay for the financial crisis - in some cases, they are paying for it with their lives.

If we had kept going the way we were under Labour, eventually we'd have disaster and a bankrupt state.

Well, we wouldn't because the deficit and debt prior to the financial crisis were not especially high.

Here is a chart of the UK national debt as measure by percentage of GDP (i.e. ability to pay back) from 1900 to 2008:

www.ukpublicspending.co.uk/spending_chart_1900_2008UKp_12c1li011mcn_G0t

I purposely stopped the chart at 2008, when the financial crisis hit. Examine the figures for debt and deficit yourself.

FellatioBellsOn Wed 05-Dec-12 05:13:02

LittleTyga 500 per week? When all the other, much nice flats are 200 per week? confused Are you sure? Where is this?

ChristmasFayrePhyllis Wed 05-Dec-12 06:39:21

"In 2011 the Oxford Student newspaper was leaked video footage of an OCA member singing the first line of a song glorifying the Nazi Party in the Corpus Christi JCR following an OCA meeting at The Oxford Union.

The alleged incidents occurred in 2010. Current and former members of the association have strongly criticised all racism, with some members resigning, and the university launched an investigation into the society as a result of the reports.

The Dean of Corpus Christi has subsequently banned all OCA events at the college, indefinitely. "

Source = Wikipedia, so you know it's gold wink

So that's why the Corpus Conservatives feel their rights are being imposed upon.

Corpus is also my college - all the alumni got an email from the college the day or the day after this was in the news. I can't remember exactly what it said, but it was clear college were pretty disgusted and I think it is true that OUCA were banned from holding events in college. Not that it will make any difference to most people, but I think it was an MCR member who held the party, so not a regular undergrad (unless a 4th year).

Corpus was pretty politically apathetic when I was there - there were certainly people who voted Tory, but I don't think anyone was active in OUCA. Part of the problem for Tories in Oxford is that OUCA (or OCA, as it now is because the University won't let it use its name) is basically a drinking society for people who want to pretend they are living in some sort of Edwardian fantasy land. It's not like it used to be back when it was a training ground for future Conservative leaders in the 50s and 60s. I was actually very relieved during the last leadership contest to see that Cameron hadn't actually been a member when he was at Oxford.

So unless you are prepared to take on the loons in OUCA, there's actually no place in Oxford to be involved with Tory activism, unlike OULC or OULD. So Tories just aren't very visible unless they are OUCA loons, in which case they deserve everything they get.

But it's not clear what actually happened: to be honest the proposal of a Tory equal ops post just sounds like a joke JCR motion to me.

nameuschangeus Wed 05-Dec-12 06:48:17

It's not only the posh universities where this is true. The labour club where I work (untrendy northern uni) are quite spiteful and vociferous. I can't think of any students who admit to voting Tory outwardly to other students but in conversation it's clear many of them do but are too frightened of, at best, people taking the piss out if them.

And for all you people saying 'its their own fault' or similar try replacing the word Tory with black or female or gay and see how your argument comes across then.

StNickHasHisXmasTeakozyOn Wed 05-Dec-12 07:32:34

gringringrin You can't choose to be gay, female or black; you can choose to be a Tory. Which means the poor, disabled and the women you clearly despise are right to rip the piss out of you.

nameuschangeus Wed 05-Dec-12 07:37:21

You miss my point. It's not about how you are referring to, it's about the way YOU are talking about another group of people, and it's horrible. No wonder freshers feel bullied.

StNickHasHisXmasTeakozyOn Wed 05-Dec-12 10:21:12

So by your analogy it's not ok for Iain & Duncan Smith to refer to disabled and other benefit claimants as scroungers. 'Cos they and the rest of their nasty bunch of cunts do that on a daily basis. Cuts to the welfare and housing benefits are going to cost more in the long run.

nameuschangeus Wed 05-Dec-12 11:08:51

I don't think I did say it was ok. My point is that ime students do lie as the labour group are very vociferous. I think you've proved me right.

claig Wed 05-Dec-12 11:17:10

Very good, balanced, reasoned posts nameuschangeus

'the labour group are very vociferous'

Remember that wise Tory saying: 'it is an empty vessel that makes most noise'

Bear that in mind when you listen to the Labour benches replying to Osborne's Autumn Statement later today!

BoulevardOfBrokenSleep Wed 05-Dec-12 11:20:26

Phyllis - I'd suggest that the Oxford Union is the natural home of Tories maybe? Not exactly political, but similar...style.

ChristmasFayrePhyllis Wed 05-Dec-12 14:11:31

What do you mean by 'similar ... style'?

All my experiences of the Union suggested to me that it was a nasty pit of vipers: people stabbing each other in the back, clawing their way to the top. Most normal students despised the 'hacks' there. I wouldn't vote for anyone who'd come up through that system.

I stand by my point that there is nowhere in Oxford for ordinary Conservatives to talk sensibly about Tory policy. This means that normal students who vote Tory but don't want to get mixed up in OUCA lunacy don't have an outlet for activism in the way that OULC etc do. So that means that the only Tories who are really visible at Oxford are OUCA types, who are an embarrassment to the national party and don't represent most Tory voters.

People then assume that all Tories are like OUCA and attack anyone who votes Conservative without bothering to find out what they actually think on any given issue.

GrrrArghZzzzYaayforall8nights Wed 05-Dec-12 14:34:34

MoreBeta - Romney's quote had nothing to do with government welfare/getting money from the government.

The 47% are the number of people whose incomes are so low that they have no federal income tax obligation as they are under the personal allowance given by federal tax laws. They all still pay local tax, state tax, petrol tax, vice taxes if applicable, sales tax, and so on.

Not all of these will be getting social security benefits (though a good number of those are pensioners), most get no government aid and for those that do the numbers are ridiculous (welfare in some areas is as little as $3 per person per day).

The fact that 47% of Americans aren't earning a living wage to the point the IRS thinks it's not proper to take their money shows a lot about the problems with the people running the businesses in America not with those on low wages.

ttosca Wed 05-Dec-12 14:52:45

You miss my point. It's not about how you are referring to, it's about the way YOU are talking about another group of people, and it's horrible. No wonder freshers feel bullied.

As already pointed out, you choose to be a Tory, you don't choose to be female or black.

Secondly, being female or black doesn't imply you're a sociopath. Being a Tory does.

If we can't criticise people based on their behaviour, then on what basis can we criticise them?

Cozy9 Wed 05-Dec-12 17:41:50

All Tories are sociopaths? Please. Most of us are kind, hard-working people.

ttosca Wed 05-Dec-12 18:14:31

You're not kind if you support economic policies which kill disabled people, increase child poverty, increase homelessness, and (according to 'HM' Treasury statistics www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/d/as2012_distributional_analysis_impact_on_households%281%29.pdf) enact regressive budgets which take even more money from the lowest 50% of households to pay off for the financial crisis caused by the richest.

Cozy9 Wed 05-Dec-12 18:23:35

There's nothing "kind" about making people reliant on benefits. Eventually they won't be there anymore and people won't know how to support themselves.

ttosca Wed 05-Dec-12 19:23:08

There's nothing "kind" about making people reliant on benefits. Eventually they won't be there anymore and people won't know how to support themselves.

Oh right. More Tory bullshit about 'being kind' by removing benefits from people and making them destitute or killing them. Right.

In actual fact, there are more unemployed than their are jobs. Removing welfare in the midst of a recession as an attempt to 'motivate' people to work is like kicking someone out of a hospital in order to 'motivate' them to cure themselves of a disease.

Stop trying to dress up nastiness as 'kindness'. Nobody believes it. The majority of people receiving welfare are either honestly looking for work when there is none, or are disabled/ill and cannot work.

Furthermore, a large part of the welfare bill goes to subsidising companies which are too greedy to even pay their employees a proper wage, so that families require state subsidies to survive.

This is just more of the same from the Tory party: nastiness, hatred, and contempt for the poor.

Cozy9 Wed 05-Dec-12 19:37:39

Neither of us are going to change each other's mind, are we?

ChristmasFayrePhyllis Wed 05-Dec-12 20:33:24

All Tories are sociopaths? You seriously think over a third of the population are sociopaths?

I'm afraid that is the point at which it becomes impossible to have a reasonable conversation.

LittleTyga Wed 05-Dec-12 22:36:59

fellatio Its in Paddington, Central London and yes I am absolutely positive. As the maximum a LL can charge in the area is £500 that is what they charge and the irony is its an ex council flat - which was sold off and charged back to the council at an extortionate rate - you couldn't make it up Fellatio!

ravenAK Wed 05-Dec-12 22:59:01

Over a third of the population aren't Tories, though, are they?

36% of a 65% turnout isn't one-third of the population, even in Osbourne-style maths.

& that's if you're identifying 'Tories' as 'people who voted Conservative in one election.'

Cozy9 Wed 05-Dec-12 23:20:37

Whichever way you look at it, saying "Tories are all sociopaths" is ridiculous. It's like saying "all Labour people are psychopathic control freaks". They aren't. Most Labour voters are decent people with misguided beliefs. Most people in this country, regardless of who they vote for, are good people.

FellatioBellsOn Thu 06-Dec-12 04:55:26

OK, fair enough but there is such a shortage of houses where the owners/landlords are allowed or willing to take DSS tenants, due to either restrictions on their mortgage or horrendous experiences in the past that the LAs are forced to pay through the nose. I would dispute that the other much nicer flats in that area go for as little as 200 quid a week though. I doubt the difference is as much as you think it is.

Frankly it's ridiculous that one woman and one child are costing the public purse in excess of 2k a month in rent alone. I own a very spacious three bed flat in comfortable commuting distance of London, in a nice safe area and the rental value is around 700-800 a month.

flatpackhamster Thu 06-Dec-12 08:57:00

DorisIsWaiting

Slug- I think you hit the nail on the head.

Rather than bleating on about bullying (Ha!) maybe the Tories need to think why they are SO unpopular.

Just going to tweak that a bit.

Rather than bleating on about bullying (Ha!) maybe the Tories Jews need to think why they are SO unpopular.

Straight out of 1930s Germany, that sort of thinking.

I have no natural affliation with any party but I can honestly say the Tories make me feel they want to turn back the clock, sadly to a time when the rich were richer and the pooor were well and truly sunk.

Turning back the clock all the way to the last Labour government then?

With regard to the reason so many are on benefits of one form or another is because emoplyers (small and large, and Government itself DO NOT PAY a living wage). If work was renumerated at a level able to support a family I.e. companies prioritising workers over shareholders. The country could lose a whole tier of benefits

Oh, well you solved that problem pretty simply. All employers can simply increase the pay they give their staff, because they're all sitting on immense piles of cash, trying to decide what to do with it.

slug Thu 06-Dec-12 11:51:07

See, this argument fails at the first hurdle. While being a Tory is something you can actively choose, being Jewish is something you inherently are.

You can't choose not to be Jewish. You can certainly examine your conscience and possibly choose not to be Tory.

LDNmummy Thu 06-Dec-12 12:02:00

Claig posts bizarre and 'intended to start a bunfight' threads in other MN forums frequently.

ttosca Thu 06-Dec-12 13:28:01

flatpack-

Rather than bleating on about bullying (Ha!) maybe the Tories need to think why they are SO unpopular.

Just going to tweak that a bit.

Rather than bleating on about bullying (Ha!) maybe the Tories Jews need to think why they are SO unpopular.

Straight out of 1930s Germany, that sort of thinking.

As pointed out several times now, being a Tory describes a set of behaviours, which is a legitimate area of criticism. It is not comparable to being black, or Jewish, or disabled, or anything else which is beyond people's control.

Let me use your own argument:

"Rather than bleating about bullying (Ha!) maybe people who set off explosives in Tube carriages need to think about why they are SO unpopular"

Does that make sense to you now? Is it clearer?

The Tories are hated because of their sociopathic behaviour, which is doing harm to millions of people in societhy, making them homeless and destitute, and sometimes killing them. It is perfectly legitimate to hate a group which engages in such behaviour.

I have no natural affliation with any party but I can honestly say the Tories make me feel they want to turn back the clock, sadly to a time when the rich were richer and the pooor were well and truly sunk.

Turning back the clock all the way to the last Labour government then?

No, turning back the clock to Victorian times, before the welfare state, and before organised labour. When men were the breadwinners, women stayed in the kitchen, and children worked up chimneys. That sort of thing.

With regard to the reason so many are on benefits of one form or another is because emoplyers (small and large, and Government itself DO NOT PAY a living wage). If work was renumerated at a level able to support a family I.e. companies prioritising workers over shareholders. The country could lose a whole tier of benefits

Oh, well you solved that problem pretty simply. All employers can simply increase the pay they give their staff, because they're all sitting on immense piles of cash, trying to decide what to do with it.

In some cases they most certainly are. Many larger corporates are making record profits. At the same time, the difference between pay at the top and pay at the bottom has never been greater in history. If the CEO and top executives were paid less, then the people at the bottom could be paid a living wage.

Cozy9 Thu 06-Dec-12 13:43:41

If you owned a company, would you pay the CEO and top execs less so you could pay the people at the bottom more? How much less, and how much more?

ttosca Thu 06-Dec-12 13:55:51

Do you realise what an absurd question that is?

How could I possibly answer that without knowing anything about the company, or how much any of the employees are paid?

I can say, though, that 30 years of neo-liberalism has resulted in an enormous increase in the pay gap even within companies between the lowest and highest paid:

Wage Gap Between C.E.O.s and Workers Continues to Grow

The New York Times reported yesterday on a new study, which revealed that the U.S.’s top 200 C.E.O.s made an average of $14.5 million in 2011 — an average pay raise of 5 percent. The study also found that, for the first time, more than one C.E.O. — two — had nine-figure paydays.

Meanwhile, the average worker in the United States saw a pay increase of only 2.8 percent. C.E.O. salary has increased 127 times faster over the last thirty years than worker salary. To put this in perspective, the average Fortune 500 chief executive is paid 380 times more than the average worker.

www.alternet.org/newsandviews/article/988597/wage_gap_between_c.e.o.s_and_workers_continues_to_grow

MrJudgeyPants Thu 06-Dec-12 23:06:40

Still quoting American statistics whilst talking about how evil/useless/sociopathic the Tories are I see Ttosca.

Wake me up when you stop copying and pasting irrelevant bollocks.

BoulevardOfBrokenSleep Fri 07-Dec-12 10:47:53
ttosca Fri 07-Dec-12 13:57:07

MrJudgeypants, I'm sure you're aware the situation is v similar in the UK.

Of course it is. I've told him that many times. The US and UK have similar ideologies, and since 1980 have transformed their economies in the neo-liberal mold of privatization, wage suppresion, growing pay gap, growing wealth inequality, etc.

EldritchCleavage Fri 07-Dec-12 14:25:32

All my experiences of the Union suggested to me that it was a nasty pit of vipers: people stabbing each other in the back, clawing their way to the top. Most normal students despised the 'hacks' there. I wouldn't vote for anyone who'd come up through that system

I completely agree. My Uni was one where it certainly was ok to be Tory. And very horrible most of them were too. But so were the Labour hacks. We even had an SDP cabal (that's how long ago it was) who were smugly nasty as well.

What was so striking is that even in those 80s days of deep political division the politicos had more in common with each other (strident bullying, intellectual dishonesty, ego, rigidity) than they did with any of the less politically active students on their own side. It gave me an abiding distrust of politicians that I still have.

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