'Number 10 link to paedophile ring'-Press association

(346 Posts)
kweggie Wed 24-Oct-12 15:59:44

'There is "clear intelligence" suggesting a historic paedophile ring may be linked to Downing Street and a former prime minister, MPs have been told.

Labour MP Tom Watson alleged a member of a notorious group was connected to a former No 10 aide'

Am I the only one who thinks I may have been living my who;e life in a parallel (decent)universe.....
how much more sleaze is going to emerge......I'm shocked

DebbieTitsMcGee Wed 24-Oct-12 16:05:04

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MissHuffy Wed 24-Oct-12 16:07:35

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somebloke123 Wed 24-Oct-12 16:16:55

Well I think it's the "no 10 aide" that's significant here. Much speculation on the Guido Fawkes blog.

There has in addition been various stuff with a nautical angle - whether to place any credence on it I just don't know.

AnyaKnowIt Wed 24-Oct-12 19:24:45
edam Wed 24-Oct-12 19:34:44

Well, we know Savile was linked to at least one PM, he spent every Christmas at Chequers for years when Maggie was in charge. And her govt. put him in charge of Broadmoor as well, bizarrely.

noddyholder Wed 24-Oct-12 22:33:43

There were rumours about JS procuring boys for a senior politician from jersey

noddyholder Wed 24-Oct-12 22:34:15

Who gave him the keys to Broadmoor? Was it KC?

ledkr Wed 24-Oct-12 22:40:13

God so depressing feel as if we are surrounded by pervs

donnie Wed 24-Oct-12 22:42:18

fucking hell noddy - I know who you mean by KC. OMG!

Sunnywithachanceofshowers Thu 25-Oct-12 00:54:26

My mind is blown by all of this. Gah.

buzzgirly Thu 25-Oct-12 07:06:38

This is all so unbelievable - how much more awful stories to come out? Between this, the Saville/BBC and the Hillsborough cover up - I am feeling really uneasy about that whole time period. It seems that so many people at the top of our country's biggest organisations just really didn't give a shit about anyone.

kweggie Thu 25-Oct-12 09:31:37

Exactly buzzgirly. It feels like they are re-writing my youth-it makes me feel naieve. The adults we trusted are turning out to be monsters.....UGH

Two things worry me-one, is it all going to be centred on JS and the real 'players' will get away with it
two, IS IT STILL GOING ON? -to which you'd logically and sadly, have to say yes

EdsRedeemingQualities Thu 25-Oct-12 09:36:37

Which is exactly why some people believe in so-called conspiracy theories such as the one about the US government being behind the 9/11 attacks.

There is so much we don't know.

MrsArchieTheInventor Thu 25-Oct-12 16:51:05

One of the saddest things I've thought for a long time was on the Sunday after the ITV documentary, watching Something Special on CBeebies with DD and wondering about Justin Fletcher. I'm not for one minute suggesting that Justin is implicated in this or any other similar saga, it's just that you start to wonder what goes on behind closed doors when the very people you looked up to and idolised as a child turns out to be monsters.

EdsRedeemingQualities Thu 25-Oct-12 17:05:10

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EdsRedeemingQualities Thu 25-Oct-12 17:06:11

My mother OTOH is convinced everyone is sinister. She told me she was living next door to a brothel a few years ago.

It was just a student house. I think

cornybeefhashtag Thu 25-Oct-12 18:51:15

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ImperialBlether Thu 25-Oct-12 19:49:18

Is KC Ken?

EmmelineGoulden Thu 25-Oct-12 19:50:06

Back in the 80s (possibly early 90s) I recall there being a brief flurry of reports about children's homes in Northern Ireland being used as a source of victims for senior political figures. A retired Chief Constable was supposed to be leading some kind of enquiry but later claimed to have been silenced.

Does anyone else remember this? Or have I confused some elaborate hoax with real life?

kweggie Thu 25-Oct-12 20:33:57

wasn't it called Kingcora? (can't remember anything else)

AnyaKnowIt Thu 25-Oct-12 20:43:32

It was the Kincora Boys' Home

EmmelineGoulden Thu 25-Oct-12 21:09:14

Ahh thank you. Have just googled. Seems it wasn't quite as hushed up as I remembered, so may be not as relevent. But it made me very sceptical about the character of people in power and I don't think much has changed.

donnie Fri 26-Oct-12 06:31:31

kweggie - "it fels like they are rewriting my youth" - that's how I feel exactly sad

PrettyPrinceofDarkness Fri 26-Oct-12 06:50:42

I still believe most people are decent and kind.

Maybe power attracts a certain type of person. I really hope that tis is investigated properly, but given the names hinted at being involved I doubt that'll be the case.

seeker Fri 26-Oct-12 06:53:55

It's awful. But naming people on a thread like this then saying "I'm not for one moment suggesting......." is how rumours start.

WorriedBetty Fri 26-Oct-12 07:23:46

Ok, lets follow this logic. American-type political activity happening here:
1. Anti abortion tory wives
2. welfare cut to below poverty levels
3. Employers paying similar wages to welfare
4. Employment rights being eroded.
5. 'Give them something to fear' politics. You want something that cuts the nation to its core to make it introspective, paranoid and nervous so you can exploit them and they won't complain.

What troubles me is that the more distant men are from children and women, the more problematic behaviour that emotional distance will trigger. I think that the more everyone suspects everyone else of being a paedophile, the more fractured we will become as a society.

Our right wing press will relish all these outcomes,sadly and fan all the flames. I just wish our tabloid press would fan our society upwards, not downwards. Its sad, it really is.

Greythorne Fri 26-Oct-12 08:02:47

What seeker said.

I am sure you did not mean to be malicious but I have reported your thread as I think it is completely irresponsible.

cornybeefhashtag Fri 26-Oct-12 08:08:15

I'll report mine as well as I quoted her.

EdsRedeemingQualities Fri 26-Oct-12 08:16:46

Oh crikey...they had better delete mine as well then!

RebeccaMumsnet (MNHQ) Fri 26-Oct-12 10:31:23

Hi all,

Many thanks for the reports.

We have removed those posts now, we know that the intent was not malicious.

Can we please ask you all to stray away from speculation about individuals involvement as we really don't want to have to delete another thread.

Many thanks

Tipsandshoots Fri 26-Oct-12 20:55:51

28 Febuary, 1973. The Times. ‘Heath fund aids tax men’s children’s treat.’ ‘A cheque from the Prime Minister was pushed under the door of Mr William Tyzack’s Tottenham terrace home yesterday as a donation from the Edward Heath Charitable Trust to the London Taxi-Drivers’ Fund for Underprivileged Children. [...] With its money the drivers’ fund will finance another outing to Southend for East End children. Mr Jimmy Savile, the disc jockey, will join about 300 children in a convoy of a hundred London taxis headed by Mr Tyzack, the fund’s secretary.’

21 November, 1979. The Guardian. ‘Spinal injuries centre wins cuts reprieve.’ ’The internationally renowned National Spinal Injuries Centre at Stoke Mandeville has been reprieved from further cuts under the Government’s public expenditure plans. The reduction of beds and services is to cease, Health Minister, Dr Gerard Vaughan, said yesterday [...] However the centre will need a private cash appeal – headed by disc jockey Jimmy Savile and backed by the Minister – to remain open.’

24 January, 1980. The Guardian. ‘Minister stands back as hospital cash floods in. By Melanie Phillips.’ ‘The Health Minister, Dr Gerard Vaughan, and entertainer Jimmy Savile yesterday launched a £10 million hospital appeal. The cash is needed to rebuild the National Spinal Injury Centre at Stoke Mandeville [...] The Government has said there is no public money available for the scheme and has welcomed Mr Savile’s appeal as an example of the “partnership” between Government and public that it is hoping to promote.’

21 October, 1981. The Times. ‘Reception.’ ’The Earl of Snowdon, Patron of PHAB (physically handicapped and able bodied) and Mr Jimmy Savile (president) were hosts at a reception and dinner held at the Mount Royal Hotel yesterday to launch the charity’s silver jubilee celebration for 1982. Among the guests were: Mr Hugh Rossi, Minister of state for Social Security and the Disabled [...].’

6 November, 1981. Hansard. Speech by Norman Fowler, Secretary of State for Social Services. ’One outstanding example of what can be achieved when the National Health Service, the community and voluntary interests are working together towards a shared goal is the national appeal which Jimmy Savile is mounting for the rebuilding of the spinal injuries unit at Stoke Mandeville hospital.’

6 May, 1982. Excerpt from the diary of Auberon Waugh, quoted in The War Diaries, eds. Alan Taylor and Irene Taylor, 2005. ’Mrs Thatcher should use this [i.e. the Falklands War] as a golden opportunity to blow up the huge grain silos in Northern Argentina, containing all the wheat intended for Russia. In fact, I was urging her to do this long before the Argentinians invaded. But nowadays she listens only to Ferdinand Mount and Jimmy Savile. I might as well babble of green fields.’

2 January, 1983. The Observer. ‘How Britannia Runs the Shop: The Thatcher Phenomenon. By Simon Hoggart.’ ’In the evening there might be a reception at Downing Street. Whisked between official residences in official cars, Prime Ministers soon become sealed off from the real world and begin to place exaggerated store by their meetings with ordinary people, whether across a factory bench or a gin-and-tonic. But nobody, introduced to the Prime Minister, is going to start by attacking her. Reality soon begins to disappear [...] Which is more real, which (if any) tells you more about the British people: a girl in a chocolate factory, mumbling politely into the fondants; Jimmy Savile, paying one of his frequent visits to Downing Street [...] or a crowd of yelling demonstrators? ‘You see, they all go mad, they all start hearing voices,’ says an MP who has studied several Prime Ministers.”

2 January, 1989. The Guardian. ‘Savile helps 60 Broadmoor patients to move out.’ ’Sixty patients at Broadmoor are to be transferred to less secure hospitals under a scheme developed by television presenter Jimmy Savile. A new management team was established at Broadmoor last year by the then junior health minister, Mrs Edwina Currie. Mr Savile, a voluntary helper at the hospital for 20 years, was recruited to the team’s task force. A spokeswoman for the Department of Health said: “It is fair to say Jimmy Savile can take a lot of credit for this. Broadmoor has existed for 125 years and a lot of the procedures there are outdated.”‘

28 March, 2004. The Sunday Times. ‘Tony’s secret is to be the perfect chump.’ ’[...] Alan McGee, the man who discovered Oasis, described to me a toe-curling dinner at Chequers. McGee was keen to talk class war but found himself next to Sir Jimmy Savile and Dame Judie Dench.’

McGee’s own recollection of this event, quoted in T. C. W. Blanning, The Triumph of Music, 2010. ‘When we drove up to the house, there were SWAT teams everywhere: guys crawling around on the grass, with guns. He [Blair] answered the door wearing jeans, with a pint in his hand. We went in, and that was when it got totally fucking psychedelic. Judi Dench was there, a guy from Psion computers, that author, John O’Farrell… and Jimmy Savile. I introduced him to Kate [McGee's wife], and he started kind of sucking her fingers. It was all totally weird.’

Tipsandshoots Fri 26-Oct-12 20:59:24

Thats how he met rich and famous but how did he get there. I wonder who the 60 people were and where they went and how old they were?

Tipsandshoots Fri 26-Oct-12 21:01:02

The 60 who left who left broadmoor that is.

AnyaKnowIt Fri 26-Oct-12 21:26:52


Darkesteyes Fri 26-Oct-12 21:50:38


Darkesteyes Fri 26-Oct-12 21:53:13

Bloody hell Tips. Those headlines.


<been on MN for 14 months and have only just figured out how to work the emoticons> blush

AnyaKnowIt Fri 26-Oct-12 22:01:14

I'm still speechless over it

edam Fri 26-Oct-12 22:06:17

Wow, where did you dig those cuts from, Tips?

AnyaKnowIt Fri 26-Oct-12 22:25:01

After taking over as Broadmoor’s task force chief, Savile organised for 60 patients to be released to less secure facilities or other NHS hospitals, claiming they had been cured.

Taken from here

Tipsandshoots Fri 26-Oct-12 22:45:43

Sorry for the delay I pottered off.

Tipsandshoots Fri 26-Oct-12 22:47:00
Tipsandshoots Fri 26-Oct-12 22:53:59


Bloody hell I bet someone in France is getting a bit worried

Tipsandshoots Fri 26-Oct-12 22:54:40
Darkesteyes Fri 26-Oct-12 23:04:25

I"ll bet he is Tips.

NigellasGhost Fri 26-Oct-12 23:05:51

those taxis used to drive past our house in the summer every year, tooting and waving. We used to all go out and wave to the children who looked so happy.

Tipsandshoots Fri 26-Oct-12 23:28:59

Yep I was only thinking about the taxis last month. I always wished I could join in. They always lOoked so exciting

AnyaKnowIt Fri 26-Oct-12 23:31:20
JennyPiccolo Fri 26-Oct-12 23:36:27

Lots of people must've known about this. They should be locked up.

Darkesteyes Sat 27-Oct-12 01:35:26
limitedperiodonly Sat 27-Oct-12 15:58:36

Deborah Orr is right. I long for this to be the death knell of the celeb tsar who is appointed an expert by any govt just because something horrible has happened to a relation and they're famous

Won't happen though.

Darkesteyes Sat 27-Oct-12 16:23:38

Unfortunately limited i think you are absolutely right.
In fact its probably even more likely that we will end up with another celeb tsar due to the celebrity culture we live in today. The obsession with celebrity is much much worse now than it was in the 60s 70s and 80s even the 90s.

LaVolcan Sat 27-Oct-12 16:23:43

It will be interesting to see how many 'stars' decide to leave the country.

I was working for the tax office about the time Ken Dodd was being taken to court for tax irregularities. A surprising number of people suddenly decided that it was time to put their tax affairs in order.

Darkesteyes Sat 27-Oct-12 16:26:03

LaVolcanSat 27-Oct-12 16:23:43

It will be interesting to see how many 'stars' decide to leave the country.

Ive been saying this to my DH. In fact i remember saying to him that if i was working in an airport or on Eurostar etc id certainly be keeping my eyes out.

noddyholder Sat 27-Oct-12 16:48:55

Silence from his old mate prince charles

WynkenBlynkenandNod Sat 27-Oct-12 16:53:14

The last week few weeks have been incredibly disturbing. I saw the clip of Tom Watson asking his question at PMQT. Cameron responds he's 'not entirely sure' which PM Watson is referring to.

What is very very disturbing is the fact Savile's child abuse appears to have been an open secret in some circles. He was closely linked to Margaret Thatcher (a number of sources on the Internet allege he spent a fair few Christmas's with her). There are a number of photos of them together and tons with the Royal Family. Surely those close to Royals and PM's are thoroughly vetted in the interest of security ?

It seems inconceivable given what has been revealed recently that his abuse was not known by the advisors to the Royal Family and top politicians. Serious questions have to be answered as to what culture existed/exists that it was deemed acceptable for him to be linked with these people when he clearly was a prolific sex offender which a lot of people knew about? If the rumours of his abuse didn't reach the ears of those that vet the people surrounding our top public figures then that in itself is a huge failure and needs to be investigated.

It seems that after Tom Watson's statement it's all gone very quiet and the public focus has been diverted onto the celebrity aspect. Which is important but the issues of the paedophilia claims in government need to remain high on the agenda, there are serious questions that need answering and I feel we should not rest until they are. I for one shall be writing to my MP, not that I feel it will do any good but I have to do something.

edam Sat 27-Oct-12 17:00:18

Maybe the reason the coverage is rather quiet on the government/royal connections is that the people concerned still have considerable power. Not least, among the press. Can't imagine the Telegraph having a pop at Thatcher or the Royals, Murdoch has his own agenda (bashing the Beeb for commercial reasons/to distract everyone from his own wrongdoing), the Mail and the Express also hate the Beeb for commercial/ideological reasons... it's convenient for much of the media to focus on the Beeb, it's convenient for those with money and power, those with money and power have considerable influence over much of the media...

edam Sat 27-Oct-12 17:00:51

(Let's hope the Guardian, Indie, ITV and Channel Four are paying close attention.)

Abra1d Sat 27-Oct-12 17:10:20

JS was working for the BBC. Not the Daily Telegraph.Or the Mail. Let's not forget that. The same BBC which takes money from everyone in the country who wants to watch a TV set, even if they don't want to watch BBC programmes. All of us who watched television back in the seventies, eighties and nineties have thus been paying JS indirectly.

Jux Sat 27-Oct-12 17:31:55

I'm willing to bet that the Beeb is not the only broadcast organisation where this went on. Why would it be? Celebrities exist on all channels, after all.

seeker Sat 27-Oct-12 17:34:57

The Honours Committee that approved his knighthood has questions to answer....

MrsjREwing Sat 27-Oct-12 17:36:45

I agree Noddy, the silence is deafening.

Abra1d Sat 27-Oct-12 17:43:48

Lots of people have interesting silences at the moment.

Harriet Harman became legal officer of the National Council for Civil Liberties (NCCL) soon after it campaigned for a more relaxed approach to sex with children.

WynkenBlynkenandNod Sat 27-Oct-12 17:45:37

Exactly Edam. But it's not on and money and power should not allow anyone to be immune to the laws of the land as they are what should be keeping a culture civilised and in order.

If 'clear evidence' was held as alleged and has been destroyed this in incredibly concerning and absolutely has to be investigated as to what happened to it and whether it was thoroughly investigated. I saw a post on a site somewhere that listed sex offence convictions across all the major parties . Obviously I have no way of knowing how factually correct that is but it will be a matter of public record and I would really like to see someone publish this. Actually what I'd really like to see are figures of percentage of MP's with sex offence convictions versus that of the general population to set my mind at rest that it is significantly lower as should be in a group elected to govern the country. But that's never going to happen is it.

MrsjREwing Sat 27-Oct-12 17:45:42

HH has interesting relatives.

Darkesteyes Sat 27-Oct-12 17:48:21

Max Clifford video. there seems to be some victim blaming in this.


MrsjREwing Sat 27-Oct-12 17:48:34

It was said on BBC Horizon by Jim Fallon that psychopaths always rise to the top, due to their lack of empathy, manipulative personality and great social skills.

ATourchOfInsanity Sat 27-Oct-12 17:51:17

I think it was very telling when JS said that if he left he would 'take half of the corporation with him' - you don't say that unless you have something on people. If the top bods at BBC know/have been involved in more, it is only a step away from other important and powerful people.

Darkesteyes Sat 27-Oct-12 17:53:08

Clifford makes some damaging statements in that video saying that some survivors have contacted him and that they are after money and that 50% of what they are saying isnt true. angry

ATourchOfInsanity Sat 27-Oct-12 17:53:26

Yes edam if you watched the JS exposee they felt they had to wait until he had died - I think he died on the Sat and the documentary maker went in to his boss to go ahead with the story on the Monday. Unfortunately we probably won't get the full story for a few years to come sad

Abra1d Sat 27-Oct-12 17:55:05

MrsjREwing, indeed.

I can't believe that she really thought it was all right for adults to take photographs of naked 14-year-olds, and that the onus should be on the prosecution to prove that the children were 'actually harmed'.

seeker Sat 27-Oct-12 17:56:44

"Harriet Harman became legal officer of the National Council for Civil Liberties (NCCL) soon after it campaigned for a more relaxed approach to sex with children."

When did the NCCL campaign for a more relaxed approach to sex with children?

Darkesteyes Sat 27-Oct-12 17:58:14

Yes that was Meirion Jones who went to his boss two days after Savile died. His aunt was the head of Duncroft and he remembers going there with his parents as a child. Apparently his parents did ask questions at the time but were fobbed off.
He remembers Savile turning up in his Rolls and how strange it all was.
As he got older he realised something really wasnt right.
I think he had been waiting for years to expose the truth.

Hummingbirds Sat 27-Oct-12 18:04:07

All this reminds me of a documentary made for Yorkshire TV that never aired. It was blocked by people in very high places. Highly recommended, albeit deeply disturbing. You can watch it online: 'Conspiracy of Silence - The Franklin Cover-up'. In a nutshell - top politicians and little boys from children's homes. Even implicated Bush senior, if I remember correctly.

MrsjREwing Sat 27-Oct-12 18:06:42

Do you know who runs childline, nspcc, do you know who runs nspcc?

I see TH's charitable trust decided to close his former home to the public!

MrsjREwing Sat 27-Oct-12 18:09:02

I remember the Florida fiasco with that family Humming and no look of shock on 911 during that school visit.

Abra1d Sat 27-Oct-12 18:09:14


Hummingbirds Sat 27-Oct-12 18:21:29

One of the boys interviewed in that documentary ended up in prison on very dubious charges. Following that, a girl witness removed her testimony. Clearly the alleged abusers had very long arms indeed.

Darkesteyes Sat 27-Oct-12 18:27:14

Mark Williams Thomas tweeted this. TRIGGER WARNING.

Savile assaulted a girl live on air.
She complained to a BBC man and was told to get lost.


Darkesteyes Sat 27-Oct-12 18:28:26

Hummingbirds thats horrific.

MrsjREwing Sat 27-Oct-12 18:29:58

Dm has that story too eyes.

Darkesteyes Sat 27-Oct-12 18:34:23

oh does it. There is a comment underneath the Sun article saying that fancy dress shops are fast selling out of wigs and shell suits.
FFS. What is wrong with people.

Darkesteyes Sat 27-Oct-12 18:36:42

Sorry if the Sun link upsets anyone i follow MWT on twitter so thats how come i came across it. He did it in plain sight. sad angry

ledkr Sat 27-Oct-12 18:40:27

Gosh that clip is upsetting isn't it I fucking hate him

WynkenBlynkenandNod Sat 27-Oct-12 18:42:34

I read this recently which states Jack Straw was passing a law in 2009 preventing children in care from speaking out even if they felt they are being maltreated .

Does anyone know if this definitely went through and still stands today ? Because if it did and still stands, we have a situation where children could be abused in care and legally prevented from speaking out. Please can someone reassure me this isn't the case.

MrsjREwing Sat 27-Oct-12 18:45:22

Why would JS propose that?

WynkenBlynkenandNod Sat 27-Oct-12 19:02:21

I don't know and I can't find anything definitive to confirm it ever went through, just people referring to it. I've seen it mentioned as fact quite a few times recently and would like to know if that is really the case, or a misrepresentation of the facts.

MrsjREwing Sat 27-Oct-12 19:10:04

Well the very fact HH and JS proposed those laws is a standalone question.

Hummingbirds Sat 27-Oct-12 19:26:55

Wynken, one of the few journalists shining a light on the laws surrounding children in care is Christopher Booker at The Telegraph. It all makes heartbreaking reading.


WynkenBlynkenandNod Sat 27-Oct-12 19:53:12

Thank you for posting that Hummingbird. I feel I've been living in a parallel universe for years and have been oblivious in my sheltered life as to what goes on behind closed doors and what is hideen in plain sight.

This week my Mum revealed that the reason she left home at 16 was to get away from a priest at her school who was trying to abuse her. It's only due to the Savile case that she's spoken out. She only told one other person (friend at school)her whole life, she's in her 70's.

Tipsandshoots Sat 27-Oct-12 20:14:51

On of the mps is my mp shall I write to him and ask why?

MrsjREwing Sat 27-Oct-12 20:19:34


Tipsandshoots Sat 27-Oct-12 20:20:36

Head teachers were utilised and the Coastguard themselves were actively involved. The world wide web was used and articles appeared on Anglers websites and the RNLI website. The help of Sir Jimmy Saville was also recruited when he lent his name and a quote to the campaign. The relevance of this campaign to Moray and all such coastal constituencies is that it shows how search and rescue agencies such as HM Coastguard can work alongside local communities and key agencies such as the RNLI to promote safety by the sea.

Darkesteyes Sat 27-Oct-12 21:32:08

Max Clifford epitomizes everything thats wrong with the celebrity culture.
With mysogynistic attitudes like his and his insinuation that 50 % of the survivors who have contacted him arent telling the truth, the celebrity cultures attitude towards women,cliffords attitude no wonder people like Kerry Katona and others end up psychologically damaged.
Clifford seems more interested in protecting slebs no matter what they may have allegedly done.
Sorry if this doesnt make much sense but this c**t really makes me sick.

Darkesteyes Sat 27-Oct-12 21:36:55

Wynken i didnt know Straw tried to do that. Thats despicable.
So sorry for what your mum went through. x

Tipsandshoots Sat 27-Oct-12 21:44:07


Interesting read

Tipsandshoots Sat 27-Oct-12 21:47:33

I feel segragated in news. Like the naysayers have won. It as if I am outside looking in to a great party I am to polite to go in and break bad news knowing that the fun will stop because of the bad news I bring. I feel discombobulated.

limitedperiodonly Sat 27-Oct-12 22:02:28

darkest the problem is that I suspect many and possibly even most people despise these victims, blame them and expect they're cashing in. If Max Clifford thought differently he'd be representing them against their abusers vigorously. I really do think most people think they were bad girls who knew what they were up to. Most parents would be horrified if you asked them if they'd expect to drop their 14 year old off at top of the pops in 1974 and get a child back who'd been forced to suck someone's dick as the price of admission. But if enough people kid themselves that it happens to the girls who 'ask for it' they can carry on being deluded.

I wonder how many of these men are wailing that it was a normal perk of their jobs and how many ordinary people are willing to excuse them still?

Hummingbirds Sat 27-Oct-12 22:07:50

Wynken, that is dreadful for your mum. She must have felt so isolated. But she must have been a strong person to run away and take control of the situation.

I remember reading about a boy in Holland who was castrated for complaining about a priest abusing him. Here it is:

'...There are also allegations that Vic Marijnen, a former Dutch Prime Minister, who died in 1975, was linked to the case.'

It just defies belief.

At least this whole episode with Savile is helping a huge number of victims to come to terms with their experiences. May it bring them healing.

Mybabyseyes Sat 27-Oct-12 22:10:51

so very sad. All the turning a blind eye.

HerBigChance Sat 27-Oct-12 22:17:38

I'm willing to bet it was going on at other broadcast organisations too (and if there is a focus on the culture/thinking behind any organisation of forty years ago, there is no reason to suppose not).

It's easier to have a go at the Beeb because it's publicly-funded (ITV would be able to give the impression of being much less publicly accountable). And it fits in nicely with the general attack on publicly funded institutions of all kinds that has been happening over the last couple of years in the name of 'austerity'.

Darkesteyes Sat 27-Oct-12 22:28:46

Hummingbirds that link...those poor boys.
I was brought up in the Catholic religion and walked away from it as soon as i could when i left home at 19.
I will never enter a Catholic church again. Told DM that if something happens to me i dont want a Catholic funeral because of the bad history of abuse in the church and the mysogyny.
DM insisted that the catholic church doesnt hate women hmm

Darkesteyes Sat 27-Oct-12 22:31:34

It was actually on itv news (think it was yesterday) that somebody at itv reported js (cant remember which decade) to someone higher up at itv and got laughed at.

MrsjREwing Sat 27-Oct-12 22:33:28

Too many people use religion to harm people. The problem is the Bible's origional translations are rubbish and modernising and interpreting the content is so challenging, never mind all the scriptures that were chucked.

edam Sat 27-Oct-12 23:04:41

Good grief, I thought the wholesale abuse of children by the Catholic Church was evil enough, but never imagine they'd castrated children for complaining of abuse. That is horrific.

WynkenBlynkenandNod Sat 27-Oct-12 23:30:01

There aren't really words for what's in the article about the Dutch catholic church are there? Veghel, which is mentioned in it, is just over 2 hours drive from where Mum grew up.

I don't know for definite that JS did actually introduce that law. There's so much on the Internet quoting it, but nowhere can I find a reliable link to confirm it.

HellATwork Sun 28-Oct-12 01:51:37

Looks like that law was passed Wynken and it did reverse Clayton vs Clayton in such a way that parents who, even exonerated from abuse, but still the court having ruled their child would not be returned to them would no longer be able to publicise what had happened to them. It looks like only authorised members of the press (card-carrying journalists) are now allowed to report from those types of proceedings:


<have missed deletion of old thread - but have kept reading anything and everything - first night I've sat at a laptop instead of using phone - have not posted on wiki since last week and sorry for disappearing abruptly - home is a building site so still leading slightly nomadic existence>

Tipsandshoots - that blog makes interesting reading. The forged letter has been lost in the subsequent furore but it was mentioned on the Panaroma programme wasn't it? In that it had never been forwarded to the newsnight investigators. Peter Rippon is being vilified in the press (and his "just the women" phrase is indefensible) but if you think about it he seemed to get stuck on the CPS investigation and whether the reasons for dropping it were as told, that JS was old and frail, and when he discovered it was for reasons of insufficient evidence as given by the CPS (so there was no doubt JS was investigated and that the allegations had been made at the time they said they were because I thought this had been confirmed by the CPS in the press since - and they are now reinvestigating their response to this - head of CPS for South-East has looked once and has now been asked to look again by the DPP). But it seems to me that the absence of a letter from the CPS would have made him feel insecure about the evidence being produced - and then a forged letter appears. However that is not to suggest the forged letter was forged by the person who said they received it - because it reminds me of the cack handed way in which another commenter on a guardian article said he had tried to report to the Epsom police and been warned off with a nasty phone call.

However - some things irk me about that annaracoon blog - if you google "Duncroft Approved School" a link to the record from the National Archives shows 3rd for me which gives all the details like the person's name at the library and the specific box no and that it contains a photo album and the years it covers e.g. 1960 - 1979. So I'm not quite sure why the blogwriter is being enigmatic about it when asked how they knew about the archive material and says: "How did I come by it? Easy peasy if you are looking for it – of course it doesn’t suit some peoples agenda….facts that is." Well, yes, google. Why not say that? Although I agree and hope that someone is going to dig further into that archive because as annaracoon points out it could provide important contemporaneous stuff about who was visiting when amongst other things.

Also it seems that others at Duncroft were aware of solitary cells in the attic because this person writes about them:
www.jackpotjewellpublications.com/a-borrowed-anorak---extras.html in 1964 and annaracoon is disputing they existed in 1965. <disclaimer - I haven't checked yet whether the jackpotjewell person is one of the original Newsnight victims that came forward>


I hope someone with journalistic integrity is already reading through those boxes in the National Archives.

HellATwork Sun 28-Oct-12 01:07:03

Also the more I read about these repulsive people, the less I am surprised like awful stories like the castrations that took place. A sub-set of the pedophiles are sadists - some like to pretend to themselves the children want their advances and as PIE and others campaign that not all sexual contact from adults to children is unwanted - they are the horrible predatory Humber Humberts of this world who kid themselves for some of the time that if children can be bribed or co-erced into sex it is 'consent' without any regard for the fundamental inequality of the 'relationship' physically, mentally, emotionally, sexually and that everything is set up to benefit the pedophile. This type talk of 'relationships' with children - but as in Lolita - that 'relationship' can only last while the child is between their preferred ages. Once they reach 10 or 15 or whatever is their cut off point for attraction, there is no 'relationship'. However for the sadist sub-set no such self-justifications are necessary. Do what thou will does really seem to be their only motto.

Darkesteyes Sun 28-Oct-12 01:21:15

Good to see you back on here HellatWork x

Darkesteyes Sun 28-Oct-12 01:25:44
HellATwork Sun 28-Oct-12 01:41:49
HellATwork Sun 28-Oct-12 01:53:58

Darkest - that link does go to the Jill Dando/Sally article and yet it looks like it is going to direct to this article which is also interesting (btw JS has already been linked to JD's murder as a 'hit' online but you probably already know that - again how true that is, no one knows because there's nothing substantiated coming out in MSM yet):


I just googled "brighton beach" "William Hague" and "5.45am" - the results of which are entirely unsubstantiated but are all over the net regardless <so I won't be discussing here - but ties back into the Islington care abuse scandal>

Feels like there was a shadow government/cabinet surrounding Thatcher, who viewed her as the virago that she was, but also as an outsider that as a woman wouldn't be privy to the real inner circle of her supporters/sponsors/fundraisers who shared their "hobby" privately and that in reality, she was just their pawn/puppet. Makes Alan Hollinghurst's The thin line of beauty even more spot on in terms of capturing the atmosphere.

HellATwork Sun 28-Oct-12 02:20:07

Emmeline: Kincora Boys School

This was the first book I read when the savile news broke:

Thatcher had to remove Sir Maurice Oldfield (C - then head of MI6 - chief Spy) form his post and report to House of COmmons that he had lost his vetting on 23 April 1987 -the rumour is this was because journalists got hold of information that he had been abusing boys at Kincora with others in power and clergy etc. Wikipedia doesn't mention this:


Tipsandshoots Sun 28-Oct-12 05:31:12

Hellatwork thank goodness your back. I was quite worried about you. A touch of the paranoidal about where some of this reaches to.

WynkenBlynkenandNod Sun 28-Oct-12 05:54:09

A couple of links from this morning's papers:

Former Thatcher aide claims he has seen evidence linking Peter Morrison to North Wales Children's Homes

Did Savile confess to murder?

The list of questions that people need to start answering is getting longer and longer. I am staggered at how links to paedophilia are emerging across all our major institutions including the Government, Education, NHS, Child Care and Protection Services, the Church, the BBC. It's now about so much more than Savile, it's widespread abuse of vulnerable children and the culture that existed/exists that has enabled this to happen.

I do understand why some people are fed up of hearing about Savile but it is vital this runs its course as our children's children will be at risk if this mess isn't properly unravelled.

Tipsandshoots Sun 28-Oct-12 06:05:24

Hmm people in dark places knew

Tipsandshoots Sun 28-Oct-12 06:05:42
Tipsandshoots Sun 28-Oct-12 08:12:51

On one of the conspiracy blogs they link this police death to the jersey investigation. Anyone know if he was on this case ?

Tipsandshoots Sun 28-Oct-12 08:16:46

I have just read the murder on in the express. Someone was linking the ripper murder that was outside savilles flat with js as it wasnt in the normal prostitute murder.
I keep thinking of the 65 children's teeth in jersey.

Abra1d Sun 28-Oct-12 08:19:20

Do not know about Jack Straw, whom I actually quite respect, but HH and Patricia Hewitt must be blushing now, because of their roles in the CCCL.

Tipsandshoots Sun 28-Oct-12 08:37:26

Gary glitter has been arrested again. Not as high profile as I expected

Tipsandshoots Sun 28-Oct-12 09:23:43
chipstick10 Sun 28-Oct-12 09:24:23

The very top will survive, their protection is guaranteed. Freddie Starr and a few other bit part players will take the can.

Tipsandshoots Sun 28-Oct-12 09:26:30

HH is quite worrying. She was in power for a long time . I posted a bit of her legislation she put forward that boiled down to if a porn picture showed a chid who was not distressed then it should be legal!

MrsDeVere Sun 28-Oct-12 09:31:41

I read a tiny piece in the paper yesterday about a museum being closed down because it was losing money.
It has not been open very long.

It is the house of a former PM. It all seems a bit coincidental to me and I am really not one for conspiracy theories.

But his name has been bandied about for many years in connection with child sex offences.

I do not think it is about the money at all.

Tipsandshoots Sun 28-Oct-12 09:35:34

I was searching for info on Allen dulles the CIA bod in conjunction with Maurice oldfield head of mi5 and that clip came up.

Tipsandshoots Sun 28-Oct-12 09:45:45

More scary stuff . You know that producer of js he was also the producer of Mini pop kids.

Makes you weep . Loads of people raised eye brows at mini pop

MrsDeVere Sun 28-Oct-12 09:56:49

Jesus Mini Pops!
But doesn't it also illustrate the attitude to children in those days? We all watched it.
It was allowed to go to air.

FrothyOM Sun 28-Oct-12 09:59:20

The Jill Dando link is disturbing. Was she shot because she knew too much or was it just a tragic coincidence?

claig Sun 28-Oct-12 10:03:07

I agree with HellATwork that there may in fact be a shadow government. Someone on Icke's forum said that Savile was probably more powerful than the visible leaders and was probably a member of the shadow government. He said he was a "fixer" and an "eminence grise". He probably worked for someone or something more powerful than the visible leadership, which was why he possibly had such access, such contacts and was seemingly "untouchable" in life.

FrothyOM Sun 28-Oct-12 10:04:48

MrsDevere, have you got a link to the news story about the museum?

claig Sun 28-Oct-12 10:06:52
MrsjREwing Sun 28-Oct-12 10:08:31

Frothy, DM carried the story concerning the closure of TH's former home yesterday.

claig Sun 28-Oct-12 10:13:32

'the former Radio 1 DJ, best known still for the TV programme Jim'll Fix It, has bizarrely claimed in an interview this week that alongside his career as an entertainer, he has secretly served as an adviser to world leaders and royalty alike.

"I guess I am like Forrest Gump," he told Esquire magazine.

"I am like a sewing machine needle that goes in here and goes in there, but I am also the eminence grise: the grey, shadowy figure in the background. The thing about me is I get things done and I work under cover."

Among the revelations, he describes meeting the president of Israel who invited him to address the country's cabinet in 1975.

He says that he was asked by Prince Charles to keep Sarah Ferguson, then married to Prince Andrew, out of trouble.

He also spent "11 consecutive Christmases at Chequers" with the Thatchers - or so he says.'

Seems unbelievable, but if true, it makes you wonder why and how.

FrothyOM Sun 28-Oct-12 10:13:48


FrothyOM Sun 28-Oct-12 10:14:16

That thanks was for mrsjrewing

claig Sun 28-Oct-12 10:23:51

'we know he [Savile] spent an afternoon entertaining the wives of the G7 leaders back in 1991 at John Major's invitation.'

claig Sun 28-Oct-12 10:42:08

'Dickie Arbiter said ... He would roll up in one of his inimitable tracksuits, sometimes arriving by bicycle at St James's Palace, and he would stroll in as if he owned the place -which he probably did in a previous life.'

'previous life'? It gets worse.

MrsDeVere Sun 28-Oct-12 10:49:49

I didn't see it in the DM btw (gasps at the very idea grin)
And I really am not one for conspiracies. It just sort of leapt out at me.

So JS was in charge of Broadmoor all that time, and then he let 60 of the patients/inmates out?

Since all this came out, I have been wondering how the peadophiles have managed to get away with it for so long. Perhaps here we have the answer.

Broadmoor is where they sent the likes of Ian Brady, Peter Sutcliffe, Kenneth Erskine, Robert Napper. It's where they send paedophiles and child murderers, the ones who can't help themselves; psychopaths.

And JS befriended some, and let them go. Maybe the ones who were released were not dangerous. But just imagine if you had been abused by one of the paedophiles, and they just tell you that their friend knows these murderers who would be only too happy to do harm. There it is in black and white in the paper. Even if JS never had any more contact with them again, just the threat of it would be enough to keep victims quiet.

claig Sun 28-Oct-12 11:36:41

'Janie Jones, a singer who ran sex parties at her home in Kensington, was jailed for three years in 1974 after becoming snared in the scandal.

She was found guilty of controlling prostitutes and trying to pervert the course of justice. After being tracked down by The Telegraph, Miss Jones told how she was summoned to meet Savile on her release in 1977.

It was a bizarre encounter in which Savile accused her of siding with Myra Hindley, whose release she campaigned for after meeting the killer in jail, while expressing his own desire to have sex with under age girls.

Savile, according to Miss Jones, was an apparently keen supporter of Ian Brady, Hindley’s accomplice in the Moors murders.

Miss Jones, now 75, said: “Savile just kept saying that he could not understand why people went on about 13-year-old girls because they were 'gagging’ for it. I told him that anybody who wants to go with a 13-year-old is a paedophile.

"Then he was bragging that he had met Ian Brady. He said it was disgraceful that I was siding with Hindley against Brady. At the time he was doing Jim’ll Fix It, but he was interested in 13-year-olds.”

Savile was intrigued, Jones says, by her parties at which women — she insists they were always over the age of consent — had dressed as schoolgirls. She insisted that Savile had never been to her parties but that other disc jockeys had.'


I must add that not everyone in Broadmoor is a murderer or paedophile, but that there is a Dangerous and Severe Personality Disorder unit.

(According to the book The Pychopath Test, there was a man kept there for over a decade who pretended to be mad at his trial to avoid a prison sentence. He beat someone up when he was 17, and was still in Broadmoor when he was 29).

Claig, can remember reading that quote about Saville saying he was a shadowy figure, and thought he must have been suffering from delusions and dementia. It takes on a whole new meaning now.

claig Sun 28-Oct-12 12:14:40

Yes, Savile said lots of things in plain view that people thought were outrageous and he was therefore able to hide in plain view because people didn't believe him. How could he "summon" anyone, how could he be appointed to be in charge of anything to do with a mental institution that housed our most dangerous patients, how could he stroll around in the chambers of power in a tracksuit like a jester taking the piss? He must have been more powerful and important than his manufactured image portrayed.

noddyholder Sun 28-Oct-12 12:32:03

On the Louis Theroux docu he said that he was feared in every girls grammar in teh country!

Tipsandshoots Sun 28-Oct-12 12:39:05

He never came to mine thank goodness although I am going to google to check However we did have matt busby and the MU football squad due to their training pitch being flooded.

Tipsandshoots Sun 28-Oct-12 12:41:14


there seems to be a common theme of a certain femaile editor not telling the whole truth about the causes of it being dropped.
Either she didn't turst anyone to tell them the truth or she wanted it dropped because of something else

or someone is trying to stich her up

Tipsandshoots Sun 28-Oct-12 12:49:35
Hummingbirds Sun 28-Oct-12 13:01:01

Does anybody know if there was any follow-up to Savile's nephew's claims of paedophile sex parties? Who else was attending them?


They sound very much like the poolside paedophile sex parties in the Franklin cover-up in the US.

Tipsandshoots Sun 28-Oct-12 13:47:20

This is the David Jordan, Director, Editorial Policy & Standards, BBC
who allegedly Meriion Jones was shouting at in the bbc corridors a couple of days ago.
He appears to have high level credentials must be in the know

David Jordan has been the BBC’s Director, Editorial Policy & Standards since 2007. Prior to this he was Controller of Editorial Policy and Chief Adviser, Politics.

David became a television journalist on LWT in 1984. He joined the BBC in 1988 to help set up its flagship political programme On The Record and later became Deputy Editor of Panorama, before returning to On The Record as Editor. He has created and edited a wide range of political programmes for BBC television and radio including The Westminster Hour.

As well as PBI, David is a member of the Organisation of News Ombudsmen and of the British Committee of the International Press Institute.

claig Sun 28-Oct-12 14:10:03

I find the dropping of the Newsnight Savile programme to protect Christmas schedules unbelievable.

claig Sun 28-Oct-12 14:10:53

I mean that I do not believe that that was really the case.

Tipsandshoots Sun 28-Oct-12 16:01:55


Ooooohhhh to scary.
I know I am being incorrect here but she looks to nice and tiny and blonde to be a spy. Nothing like 007 at all.

ThreadWatcher Sun 28-Oct-12 16:09:56

<pace marking>

ThreadWatcher Sun 28-Oct-12 16:10:31

place obviously

limitedperiodonly Sun 28-Oct-12 19:29:05

I can utterly believe that claig. The Xmas schedules had just come out and if this newsnight had come out there would have been major upheaval all plonked on the news night editor's head. I don't believe he wasn't leaned on directly or indirectly. He just knew he had to cancel it. I do also believe there were no in depth senior discussions about it. I can't believe them all saying they knew nothing of savile. Even viewers knew the various rumours about him. They might not have believed them but to say no one heard anything is a joke.

claig Sun 28-Oct-12 19:42:04

I don't believe that none of them asked questions about the content, but I am beginning to think that the programme was not intended to be go out. If it was about Christmas schedules, then they could have postponed it and shown it in January or February and said that they needed to do some extra investigation.

Six newspapers published that Newsnight dropped the Savile programme in January and February and it seems that some senior BBC executives never saw these reports. But why weren't more questions asked in January and February by the rest of the media. The public was only informed of the full details in October. Where was the investigative journalism? Lots of people must have known about the allegations and the ITV programme being made and yet there seems to be have been little exposure of what has now turned out to be major news with the biggest crisis for the BBC in 50 years.

Why October?

claig Sun 28-Oct-12 19:43:49

Someone may take the fall, possibly the wrong person for the wrong reason.

claig Sun 28-Oct-12 19:46:20

'some senior BBC executives never saw these reports' and it seems that none of their support staff told them. Maybe they don't read those newspapers. Did the BBC report those stories too?

TheCrackFox Sun 28-Oct-12 19:53:19

Even if the real reason they dropped the Newsnight report was because of the Christmas schedules surely they could have shown it in Jan/Feb, I just don't understand why drop it altogether.

claig Sun 28-Oct-12 20:00:53

Exactly. The Christmas schedule argument is probably what the public will be told. I think it is obvious that it would have eventually had to come out, because too many people knew about it and there could no longer be any excuse of Savile suing anybody. It was not a matter of if, just a matter of when, and it turned out to be October.

claig Sun 28-Oct-12 20:02:10

I think the delay in broadcasting was important.

Jux Sun 28-Oct-12 20:14:03

Why claig? To give people time to run away prepare themselves for the scandal?

claig Sun 28-Oct-12 20:20:32

No, I am guessing, but there were too many important events happening which could not be overshadowed by what has been described as this "tsunami of filth".

limitedperiodonly Sun 28-Oct-12 20:46:37

It's inconceivable to me to not ask about the newsnight allegations and inconceivable for other journalists. The savile allegations were always going to come out in one arena or another and the news that news night were doing a programme in nov or December 2011 would have killed that appalling tribute for Boxing Day stone dead. - actually it should never have been planned. Like I said everyone knew. But weirdly senior staff - wouldn't have been embarrrassed to have run the programme even just a few weeks after their tribute.

Appalling news judgement but they wouldn't have suffered for it and that's all that matters to them. I truly believe people avoided concersations about it for their own preservation because it would normally work.

I don't believe in a big conspiracy just arse covering.

Darkesteyes Sun 28-Oct-12 21:01:48

i think claig means there was too many important events as in the Olympics and the Jubilee happening. In which case there are questions to be asked of society in general not just the BBC as the Jubilee etc was obviously considered to be more important than abuse survivors finally being beleived and/or getting justice.

Darkesteyes Sun 28-Oct-12 21:04:16

i Too also think that they didnt want the Xmas schedules buggered up. After all they had already paid Shane Ritchies fee for doing that appalling Jimll Fix It tribute plus the fees of others and production fees.

Tipsandshoots Sun 28-Oct-12 21:38:48

In one of the links I put in another journalist from another department mentioned it in passing to the execs as "what are you going to do about the clash at Xmas so they did know but still went ahead with the Xmas tribute. I am glad they did. It would have been drowned out by the jubilee and Olympics.

Tipsandshoots Sun 28-Oct-12 21:51:17

It was foreign correspondent hawley to Thompson at Xmas so they knew intime. Also the editor Jordan who has stepped down he has bowed very quietly out. Presumably when it all calms down he will step back up.

Tipsandshoots Sun 28-Oct-12 21:55:06

It could all be office politics as it appears the dg job was up at the time and it looks like execs were backstabbing and dropping each other in it. Withholding info on something important could be handy when the shit the fan.
It might not be though they all could be lizards ;)

Tipsandshoots Sun 28-Oct-12 21:59:39

It was rippon not jordan I meant.i
I was also thinking when he said "it's only the girls" was he not after the stories of js with boys. So he might have other info about boys but need edit corroborated

limitedperiodonly Sun 28-Oct-12 22:23:02

It's insane to think that news stories come neatly one after another. It doesn't happen like that. Sometimes you have a glut and sometimes during the summer you don't.

It's crazy to think that the jubilee and the Olympics would have killed the savile story even if the investigations were scheduled for then - which they weren't.

People, even those in press offices who should know better, put too much store in news management. If a story is good enough you can't stop it no matter what press officers and news managers like to say.

This was always going to run because it's an irresistible chance to bash the BBC

The original "good day to bury bad news" story was about Labour council chief exec expenses which was due to come out when 9/11 happened. I'd have liked to bury something bigger than that with the biggest news story in recent history. But it added to the news management myth and has earned a lot of mediocre people a lot of wasted consultancy fees over the years so no harm done there.

Darkesteyes Sun 28-Oct-12 22:26:45

Sorry limited i sometimes type exactly as im thinking.
Im still in shock with all this even though its been a month since it broke.

bananaistheanswer Sun 28-Oct-12 22:35:44

This Week did a segment on the reasoning behind Entwhistle's claims to not have asked any questions of Helen Boaden's comments about the Newsnight investigation, as he mentioned in the select committe grilling.


John Sergeant explains the structure/hierarchy of BBC management, and how they don't want to be seen giving 'undue influence' etc. when concerned with other branches of the BBC. His report starts at about 7.14, and the discussion between Portillo, Neill, Sergeant & Johnson that follows is interesting, simply in the context of the comments above on why Entwhistle seemed to not be even the least bit curious about what Newsnight were looking into re JS/why the tributes weren't cancelled etc.

Tipsandshoots Sun 28-Oct-12 23:06:47

Portillo did no one say anything to him ask about any dalliances in the thatcher government. He is bi isn't he . He could have had edwina and ken. Ha

Moor Larkin Today, 13:37
Originally Posted by Moor Larkin
The BBC may have part of the answer in their old Archive, because in 1988 there was an episode of their Forty Minutes documentary series filmed about the new Broadmoor, and reviews of it include some quotations from Jimmy in an interview with the documentary -makers, who followed him around with their cameras.

It's also interesting to me that that there have been a lot of comments in the media about people being afraid of Jimmy Savile suing them.

The only libel case I can find a record of him winning was against The Sun in 1989, when he received undisclosed damages from News International, when they ran a story claiming he was "fixing it" for the release of Broadmoor prisoners without proper expert oversight. Kelvin MacKenzie retracted and apologised for all the content of the articles.
Originally Posted by belinus
There is also the fact in the world of commercial statutes only the legal person can sue and be sued.
I learned that should you understand this position you as a human have only one legal relationship to the legal person, one of power of attorney.

This the elite know, as such if a charge is one of a statutory nature then it is with the prosecution to first prove you are indeed the liable agent for the legal person.

Its the loophole of all loopholes known only to those at aristocracy level and above, that was until I learned of its truth.

In that sense such behaviour which is controlled by statute, cannot touch the elite...
I wouldn't know about all that, but I can read old newspapers as readily as new ones.

"Forty Minutes looks at the changes that have since been brought about by a Government-appointed management team, headed by Jimmy Savile, aimed at allowing the patients a degree of dignity and independence compatible with public safety as well as their own. "What we are trying to resolve," Savile says, "is a nightmare."

Voice from the grave indeed.
From digital spy

Tipsandshoots Sun 28-Oct-12 23:09:07

This story has come out one by one. It's waited 40 years easy to hang back for something really important to blow smoke over

claig Sun 28-Oct-12 23:27:22

I don't buy Sargeant's explanation of how it is difficult for many of us to undestand how the BBC works, with a timid management that gives free rein to brave reporters. They never reported on Savile's crimes until after he died and even then they didn't show it and had many of their stars recording tributes to him.

Gilligan, ex-BBC, gives a different view of how the BBC works to Sargeant.


Sargeant says the top management are in the clear and he doesn't agree with Simpson's view that this is the BBC's biggest crisis in 50 years. I agree with Simpson. This crisis is not just about politics, but affects the public more since it takes the lid off a can of worms that can possibly undermine trust in the institutions that the public looks up to.

It all depends what questions are asked of the management and whether some newspapers ask tough questions and if it is shown that some people have not been telling the full facts.

claig Sun 28-Oct-12 23:31:33

I feel sorry for Entwhistle. He only took the job in September and in October it all came out. Some of his colleagues seem to be denying that they knew anything about it, having not asked any questions.

Tipsandshoots Mon 29-Oct-12 00:29:40

He was head of vision. The department where it all. Ame from was t it.
As for Gilligan he has one huge axe to grind from the last debarcle

seeker Mon 29-Oct-12 07:39:18

Oh, Claig- don't be silly. Entwhistle didn't spring to life fully formed as DG!

limitedperiodonly Mon 29-Oct-12 07:51:36

No need to apologise darkest. Everyone's trying to make sense of it. My view, and concentrating on the teenage girls now, is that even if anyone thought it was a crime rather than just something all men would do in that position, there'd be no chance of conviction.

It's hard to get rape convictions even these days. Juries are still willing to acquit to avoid 'ruining' a man's life over a 'misunderstanding'. Especially if the woman can be discredited in court

All these men had to say was they didn't ask for birth certificates. They're saying it now.

Not only would it be hard and costly for a news organisation to launch an investigation and almost inevitably lose a libel trial what readers would thank them for investigating such popular figures?

Also they'd have to ask themselves some very uncomfortable questions about how they treated female colleagues and females they met and wrote about in the course of their work.

limitedperiodonly Mon 29-Oct-12 07:57:10

Also don't feel sorry for enwistle or any of the other arrogant, lazy, greasy pole-climbing execs.

Really hope Mark Thompson loses his obscene new job at the equally-pompous and self-regarding New York Times.

How any of them would get promoted outside such complacent organisations is beyond me. Unfortunately there are a lot of safe berths for such idiots to go round.

claig Mon 29-Oct-12 08:02:18

This was about children. I think there wouldn't have been a jury in the land that wouldn't have convicted Savile, and his arrogance and in plain sight statements wouldn't have worked in his favour. Also if Savile went down, he would have taken many others with him.

Some of these publicly paid for executives seem to be very powerful and influential figures, according to magazines like Forbes - even appearing in the top 100 in the world. Beats me why, but such is life.

limitedperiodonly Mon 29-Oct-12 08:13:44

People don't believe women or children in court claig. Not once a defence barrister has finished with them.

To be fair on the prosecutors they have to ask whether its in the public interest to put a vulnerable witness though two week's of examination and have them end up looking a confused fantasist at best , or a vengeful liar at worst.

How many stories calling for rape complainants to be prosecuted have you read after committal have you read. I've read a lot and they have a lot of reader's support especially when accompanied by interviews with the 'ruined' man. Not to mention the cost to the hard pressed taxpayer.

limitedperiodonly Mon 29-Oct-12 08:15:56

Sorry I meant acquittal not committal or conviction.

claig Mon 29-Oct-12 08:19:57

This is not about adults, this is about children. How many cases of child sex abuse are dismissed when they end up in court?

The taxpayer already pays for the generous salaries of many publicly employed executives. Paying to sort out criminality, abuse and rotteness in some parts of our system and institutions is a vital expense that the public would willingly pay.

limitedperiodonly Mon 29-Oct-12 08:49:02

Children do not stand up well in court. People do not believe them. People also cover for men with 'unfortunate' weaknesses and try to manage abuse within their families and communities.

Families split horribly if someone wants to confront an abuser over their past or the inevitable abuse of a new child.

Honestly, how many prosecutions have you seen relative to the vast scale of the wrongdoing?

If there is a conspiracy it's not a grand thing done by shadowy establishment forces but something perpetuated every day by frightened, confused families who have been so manipulated by the people who are supposed to love them they don't know which way is up anymore.

claig Mon 29-Oct-12 09:17:57

Maybe you are right, I don't know.

But I think that the Savile case is different. This was openly done in dressing rooms on BBC premises, in caravans on BBC premises, and witnesses witnessed it and others facilitated him. Rumours were rife and comedians even made jokes about it openly. His links to important and powerful people and the fact that the rumours were persistently ignored suggest that this may involve more than just Savile.

bananaistheanswer Mon 29-Oct-12 09:26:24

limited there is such a powerful truth in what you say there. And I think part of the reason that this case feels like there is such a shift in the axis somewhere is that so many of the people who, as you say, just wouldn't be believed, or who would be ripped to shreds by a defence barrister, are finally being listened to and believed. That is such a massive step away from the 'norm' and I think in this case the one thing that the coverage has done is give so many the impetus to come forward, and give their truth in a safe and understanding environment - something many don't get. With the sheer weight of numbers, the corroboration that those stories give each other is what might just make a difference when it comes to actually taking charges forward for those who are still alive. And yet still, we have the dissenting voices of the likes of Clifford, already starting to chip away, discredit, excuse, cast doubt. It's just so fucking depressing. I hope that this case, this investigation does make a difference because if it doesn't when you have the weight of numbers corroborating each other, and still we can't achieve justice? That is just one fucked up depressing world to live in.

limitedperiodonly Mon 29-Oct-12 09:31:08

I hope so banana. Don't hold out a lot of hope when I hear the same old excuses but it could be different this time.

seeker Mon 29-Oct-12 09:40:33

I just hope all the defenders of the Catholic Chirch are reconsidering their position in the light of the Savile affair too. But sadly I doubt it.

ATourchOfInsanity Mon 29-Oct-12 09:40:43

Exactly - as I said in my post earlier; when Saville said he would take half of the BBC down with him he was threatening people higher up - reminding them he had dirt on them. I personally think we will have to wait for a few more shadowy figures to pop their clogs before we get the full story and extent of who is involved.

claig Mon 29-Oct-12 10:06:00

ATourch, I think you are right. One day in the future it will all come out. We will probably all be dead by then, and future generations will be told that that is how it was in those times and that it doesn't happen now. Plus ca change ...

claig Mon 29-Oct-12 10:31:15

seeker, you are right about the Catholic Church. People must now be asking themselves how high this stuff really goes and in which institutions.

The Savile affair seems so unbelievable that people are now questioning everything they thought they knew. People think they have been living in a parallel universe. A member of the public commented on a Daily Mail Savile article, that it is a disgrace that the public is finding out what is going on from David Icke's forum and bloggers rather than from the main stream media.

claig Mon 29-Oct-12 10:36:31

The world has changed with twitter and blogs etc. Many of these things can no longer be hidden. Blogs and books have named people involved for years and years and have not been sued for libel.

Abra1d Mon 29-Oct-12 10:53:58

So far as I can tell the Catholic Church in England has acted properly and promptly re.JS, asking the Vatican to strip JS of his papal honours.

All this talk of castration in the Netherlands is indefensible, disturbing, evil and sick but I can't see that, as an English Catholic, who was a child when it most of the abuse happened, English Catholics have anything to 'defend', frankly. I'm not Dutch.

Getting back to JS, I never even knew that he was Catholic. He certainly wasn't held up to any Catholics I knew as an exemplar we should follow. I just thought he was a creep and so did members of my family. If Jim'll Fix It came on the TV when I was a child my parents would groan and switch it off.

Jux Mon 29-Oct-12 10:54:39

I think that even if JS had been arrested at the time, he would have done a deal, dropped a few big names like FS and GG who were not powerful, maybe a few BBC execs, wriggled out of a custodial sentence because he was keeping sctum about the guys who actually had power.....

AnyaKnowIt Mon 29-Oct-12 18:46:04

Jimmy Savile 'banned' from Children In Need news.sky.com/story/1004247/savile-was-barred-from-children-in-need

Would explain why one of the bbc's biggest stars only appeared on it once.

Pinot Mon 29-Oct-12 19:22:31

fucking depressing

Tipsandshoots Tue 30-Oct-12 17:10:57


This poor man must have had his whole life undermined

Tipsandshoots Tue 30-Oct-12 17:11:24
Darkesteyes Tue 30-Oct-12 17:53:55

Just seen on Twitter that Mark Williams Thomas has had contact with the Duncroft headmistress. Shes said that the police havent contacted her regarding JS.
What with this and the PR in full swing to distance POW from JS i have a nasty feeling the BBC are gonna carry the can for this and the rest of it is going to be swept under the carpet or at the very least they are going to try to.

MrsjREwing Tue 30-Oct-12 18:04:21

This story is going to run and run.

Tipsandshoots Tue 30-Oct-12 19:46:53

thats just been on channel 4 news

Tipsandshoots Tue 30-Oct-12 19:54:07

Last week it emerged that police blew seven chances to arrest Savile.

In 2007 Surrey police were investigating four sex attacks, including two at Duncroft approved school in Staines. Today the former headmistress of the school insisted she was never told about the investigation involving two of her pupils.

Scotland Yard admitted a victim contacted them in the 1980s, as did another woman in 2003. Jersey police also ditched an inquiry involving a boy.

CarnivorousPanda Tue 30-Oct-12 20:04:59

There is apparently a lot more to come out about Jersey.

People going on Summer Holidays for one.

MrsjREwing Tue 30-Oct-12 20:42:43

Panda, I heard about them too, lets see. I hope the survivors get their abusers locked up.

AnyaKnowIt Tue 30-Oct-12 20:49:37

Former royal aide says TV presenter would greet young female assistants at St James's Palace by 'rubbing lips up their arms


CarnivorousPanda Tue 30-Oct-12 20:52:14

Mrsj i sincerely hope so. But of course some are dead and have escaped justice. Also I believe there will continue to be a cover up to protect others.

claig Tue 30-Oct-12 21:28:57

'Charles reportedly sent him a box of cigars and a pair of gold cufflinks on his 80th birthday with a note that read: "Nobody will ever know what you have done for this country Jimmy. This is to go some way in thanking you for that."

Top of the Pops? confused


claig Tue 30-Oct-12 21:33:42

There is obviously much more to Savile than the public has been told. Was he a key player in perestroika as well as pop music?

Darkesteyes Tue 30-Oct-12 21:48:38

BLOODY HELL. Just seen this on twitter.
Clifford on video admitting that Tory MP Alan Clarke abused 14 year old girls.
Is he just throwing us dead people to distract us from the ones who are still living.


clam Tue 30-Oct-12 21:52:24

Alan Clarke married his wife Jane when she was just 17 I think.

AnyaKnowIt Tue 30-Oct-12 22:17:15

The Sunday Telegraph has established that the civil servant behind Savile's appointment to take charge of Broadmoor, the high-security hospital, was subsequently prevented from working with children.


Tipsandshoots Tue 30-Oct-12 22:58:39

Athenanaeum Club

That's been mentioned before

Tipsandshoots Tue 30-Oct-12 23:01:44
chipstick10 Tue 30-Oct-12 23:04:19

Max fixer clifford is a disgraceful blight on society. He is a leech. The boys in blue should be raiding his offices, how and why has that man got so much power???

clam Tue 30-Oct-12 23:06:48

I don't suppose for one moment Max Clifford has got any incriminating evidence hidden in his offices.
In fact, he said in that link that it was all far, far away.
Vile, vile man.

drycleanonly Tue 30-Oct-12 23:11:39

chipstick Substitute Jimmy fixer Savile at the beginning of your sentence.

Clifford is the new PR ambassador for Children in Need. ffs

Darkesteyes Wed 31-Oct-12 00:05:22

Hes WHAT Seriously???!!! FFS!

Seems that we are surrounded by these vile creaturessad
Hanging should be brought back for such sick individuals, failing that the lethal injection if human rights won't allow for that!

Darkesteyes Wed 31-Oct-12 02:01:07
Tipsandshoots Wed 31-Oct-12 07:34:01


He appears to have a v high profile. He was also in the 2000 honours list.

Tipsandshoots Wed 31-Oct-12 07:38:19

Brian McGinnis is Special Advisor for Mencap, and Chairman of L'Arche UK of the Learning Disability Coalition, and of the Bromley Learning Disability Forum. He is personal advocate for a number of people with learning disabilities.
To top

Tipsandshoots Wed 31-Oct-12 07:42:19
Tipsandshoots Wed 31-Oct-12 08:42:27

Does it appear as the children's services have tightened up their protocls that "they" have moved on to homes for the disabled? Voiceless no one would believe them ?

WynkenBlynkenandNod Wed 31-Oct-12 08:49:47

Let me get this straight. Max Clifford who said the secret to his success is 'confidence and the ability to lie', who alleges Clark, his client, was into 14 year old girls but doesn't appear to have alerted the police as someone with information on child abuse should (is required by law to do ?), is deemed suitable as the Ambassador to Children in Need ?

Do the people running these things think we are stupid? Clearly so.

I still am waiting for an answer to the question 'if those responsible for the security of the Cabinet Ministers and Royals knew about the rumours about Savile as half the country seemed to, how could he be deemed suitable to mix with them? If they didn't know, why on earth not, it's there jobs?'

There are photos of JS with Ted Heath, Margaret Thatcher, Tony Blair and Gordon Brown plus a whole load of the Royal Family.

And as Paul Gambaccini said, who was responsible for getting those on the Honours List ? Who exactly is Coco the Clown ?!

WynkenBlynkenandNod Wed 31-Oct-12 08:52:00

My apologies, I didn't mean Ken Clark, I meant Alan Clark in respect to the bit about Max Clifford.

NigellasGhost Wed 31-Oct-12 11:25:05

I have just posted this on the other In the News thread:

perhaps we should keep this thread from AIBU bumped:


the more people generally aware, the better IMHO

jc8889 Wed 31-Oct-12 17:29:32

Derek Laud.


MrsDeVere Wed 31-Oct-12 17:40:40

On a recent thread about the teacher/France case a number of posters were ridiculed for using the word peadophilie because it wasn't 'technically correct' as the child in question was not prepubescent.

Have the MN rules changed?

Personally I think it's a term in common usage for adults who abuse children therefore it's not an issue unless we are in court. Others felt very strongly about it.

Has it come up on these threads? Just out of interest.

stillsmarting Wed 31-Oct-12 18:52:51

have alerted the police as someone with information on child abuse should (is required by law to do ?) I am not sure they are required by law to report. We have recently been through a situation where an adult did not report and the Police said that whilst morally they should have done, legally they have not committed a crime.

AnyaKnowIt Wed 31-Oct-12 19:20:36

MrsDeVere No it hasn't come up as far as I am aware

edam Wed 31-Oct-12 20:52:46

Clifford was appointed to help Children in Need in 2011. Before all this came out.

margerybruce Thu 01-Nov-12 11:41:47

Chris Evans (chris.evans@bbc.co.uk) uses his Radio2 morning show to auction 'special prizes' on the week leading up to the Children in Need 'big night', he took over from Terry Wogan. This is a very high profile part of Children in Need.

The following email could be be sent to Chris Evans:

Hi Chris and Team

Even though the mainstream media seems to be ignoring a lot of evidence or at least diluting it, or maybe concentrating on obvious targets, it appears that Max Clifford, the PR ambassador for Children in Need, has admitted or intimated that he has had for many years knowledge and/or evidence of many well known celebrities being involved in child molestation, paedophilia and sexual activity with underage teenagers.

He is currently withholding that information whilst, at the same time, promoting himself and the fact that he has this knowledge. I'm sure that most caring, open minded people would feel that Max Clifford should at least provide every shred of information to the Police, or maybe he should be prosecuted himself for 'protecting' these evil criminals, what do you think?

As someone who is directly involved with Children in Need, do you not think that the charity and associated shows (your's included) are, by the minute, becoming more and more tainted as more and more 'stars' are associated with the vile atrocities so obviously covered up by the BBC, and it is wrong that an individual who has covered up and even profited from such atrocities should be an 'ambassador' for such a high profile children's charity?

Darkesteyes Thu 01-Nov-12 15:45:33

Thats excellently worded Margery.

ha3782 Thu 01-Nov-12 16:28:19

Hello Mumsnetters! I'm from the Icke forum but have lurked here since we got links to you a couple of weeks ago. I'm very impressed with what you're saying and unfortunately I think you'll see that despite it's reputation, the Icke forum members have been consistently correct about not only the terrible abuses but also the magnitude of the cover up that is needed to keep this from the general public. I hope you can see that "conspiracies" like this need people to be complicit without knowing they are involved. Many innocent people have been caught up in this so we need to offer them an environment in which they can talk. The true evil will come out eventually and the ones who are now annoying their friends by talking about this will be vindicated. Then you'll know what it's like to be a "conspiracy whacko" smile

If you are brave enough I think you should post the Tom Watson and the Max Clifford vids on Facebook. If we don't publicise what's going on then we will become part of the conspiracy ourselves! If people get upset with you for ruining Children in Need then perhaps suggest they give direct to a charity this year and give the BBC a chance to redeem itself over the coming months. Maybe donate some food or even just visit an old person in your area and do their shopping or something.

Jimmy Savile was a very dangerous man with serious connections. If you saw the Channel 4 piece yesterday you will have seen that there was no way his behaviour was a secret from the highest level.

If you have time to research Dunblane, Haute de le Garrene, Broadmoor and the political and charitable circles around them you will see just how far this mess goes.

I believe we are witnessing the biggest cover up in our history being played out in front of our eyes but seeing Mumsnet talking about it has made me feel much more positive so thanks.

MrsDeVere Thu 01-Nov-12 16:35:37

The Haute de le Garrene case. That started off with people really thinking it was huge and something on the scale of Fred and Rose West didnt it?

Then it all peetered out into nothing. From bones and teeth found and cellars with baths and shackles, to a couple of old house mothers/fathers being done for some minor offences.

Am I wrong? I don't want to add erroneous fuel to the fire so please do clarify if I am wrong.

It it thought that this was part of this vile mess too?

ha3782 Thu 01-Nov-12 16:41:33

Re Jill Dando. Tom Watson posted this on Twitter.


If I'm reading this right the conclusion was that the police knew she was being phone hacked but omitted it from the investigation and didn't follow it up. They also were spouting the "one rogue hacker" rubbish in public. That meant that they couldn't include it in the phone hacking enquiry because it would have raised questions as to why they didn't include it in the Jill Dando investigation. Have a read and see what you think. The decision to drop the investigation in 2009 was very strange. I've not really researched the whole story so not sure what the actual motive was however the Herald connects the story to Scottish gangsters:


Did they hack her phone? Was it followed up properly by the police?

Barry George was acquitted and the murder's never been solved. Hence we are possibly witnessing another cover up play itself out.

ha3782 Thu 01-Nov-12 16:44:13



Another cover up playing itself out?

If you have ten mins watch this:


RT is a proper channel on Sky. Not internet nutters.

MrsjREwing Thu 01-Nov-12 16:48:24

HA you need to add [

either end of links

ha3782 Thu 01-Nov-12 16:53:04

All the clues to this whole mess are from the MSM.

This is one almighty mess. Please watch this Channel 4 report by Paidraig O'Brien: http://www.channel4.com/news/broadmoor-savile-was-a-lunatic-in-charge-of-the-asylum

For all of the celeb rubbish that we are seeing from the MSM this is the first time they have stated that staff "knew" he was a "peadophile". This is very important legally speaking. It's not just internet tittle-tattle. Listen to Edwina Currie's "cryptic" message at the end about the power he held. Watch it and tell me that ministers couldn't have known. Now replace NHS/MoJ with BBC and will see how we've been controlled.

MrsjREwing Thu 01-Nov-12 16:55:15

HA, your links don't work.

TunipTheHollowVegemalLantern Thu 01-Nov-12 16:55:29

Edwina's message was astonishing. I wonder what else she will say.

ha3782 Thu 01-Nov-12 16:57:10

Jill Dando police balls up: [http://gregcallus.tumblr.com/post/34500136975/jill-dando-john-yates-operation-oxborough]

Daily Herald link Dando Murder to Scottish gangsters: [http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/jill-dando-murder-scottish-gangs-1088638]



MSM state that staff "knew" he was a "peadophile": [http://www.channel4.com/news/broadmoor-savile-was-a-lunatic-in-charge-of-the-asylum]

ha3782 Thu 01-Nov-12 16:57:29


MrsjREwing Thu 01-Nov-12 16:59:47

sorry it is double ] each end of a link.

ha3782 Thu 01-Nov-12 17:07:09
ha3782 Thu 01-Nov-12 17:09:31
Darkesteyes Thu 01-Nov-12 17:09:49

Details on the second Exposure documentary on Savile which could air in late November Mark Williams Thomas has started to interview people for it.


ha3782 i read Lenny Harpers long entry on Syvrets blog. Took 2 hours to concentrate on the aspects of it. Shocking and harrowing.

ha3782 Thu 01-Nov-12 17:14:38

Darkesteyes. I'm trying not to get too despondent but I suspect the media on all sides will maintain a firm grip. Why did nothing come out during the phone hacking scandal? Why did this not come out before the Jubilee? Why did this not come out before the Olympics? Imagine watching that giant baby thing during the NHS bit on the ceremony. Imagine what the world would have thought about this country. It was held up by interested parties. And the abuse of children went on throughout.

ha3782 Thu 01-Nov-12 17:22:20

I should say the RT piece starts at 12:30min: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJMscjluVwM

The Jersey story is very sad. Savile got an injunction out on the Sun to stop them printing pictures of him with the kids there.

NigellasGuest Thu 01-Nov-12 17:45:21

for Ha: www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJMscjluVwM

watch from 12:30

AnyaKnowIt Thu 01-Nov-12 18:33:51

Freddie Star has been arrested!!!

MrsjREwing Thu 01-Nov-12 18:36:12

for what in particular

AnyaKnowIt Thu 01-Nov-12 18:36:14
AnyaKnowIt Thu 01-Nov-12 18:36:30

Sexual offences

PlaySchool Thu 01-Nov-12 18:52:05

Why am I not shocked?

ha3782 Thu 01-Nov-12 20:15:20


Shock horror. The BBC are concentrating on Savile's assets being frozen. Could this be because they want us to think the victims only care about money..? Don't trust the BBC's motives at this point. Remember that last night Channel 4 said that Broadmoor staff "knew" he was a "paedophile". So why are the BBC talking about the relatively small sum of £4m? They'll have to pay a damn sight more than that pretty soon. £4m..?! smile


At Broadmoor it looks like they may have experimented on mental patients to test the affects of porno:



Why did Edwina Currie say this: "What he [JS] did have, as I know for certain, is information which gave him a hold over staff. That could explain why they said nothing, even with their knowledge or suspicion of his misbehaviour. As a result Ministers were NEVER given the information, when we could have barred him from the place."

Do you need me to get some clips together that would show it is HIGHLY unlikely that the BBC didn't know Savile was like?

Re Star: It may seem like small fry now but Star may be a good connetion to celebs/charity/police/Broadmoor:


MrsjREwing Thu 01-Nov-12 20:32:20

I had to point out to someone saying survivors were after money, by saying better they have JS money than NHS money, they deserve compensation and I would rather they get his money, the person I was speaking to stopped getting wound up. BBC are doing a good job as were This Morning, trying to make survivors look like scavangers.

TunipTheHollowVegemalLantern Thu 01-Nov-12 20:35:57

Was anyone else struck by the fact that the home of the former prime minister that was open to the public has suddenly been closed and is going to be sold?
It never seemed to me like it would have legs as a longterm tourist attraction, but the timing and suddenness are interesting nonetheless. I imagine that either something is likely to come out about said former PM or there are already enough rumours going around that opening it to the public is a bit risky.

ha3782 Thu 01-Nov-12 20:59:54

Hi MrsjREwing.

Yes, the BBC are trying their best. But have they tied themselves up in knots by trying to keep all these lies going..? The Max Clifford/Children in Need shuttle-crash has been a great example of that.

Has anyone else notice that the Clifford vid has gone from YouTube..?

ha3782 Thu 01-Nov-12 21:02:28


Yes, I saw that story. I wonder when they'll start talking about how said PM spent his holidays...

Darkesteyes Thu 01-Nov-12 21:13:57

The Clifford vid has been taken down? Well quelle surprise!
And anyone who has got a minute check out BBC Cumbrias twitter feed and what those idiots have done today!
THe BBC are going the right way to get the lowest donations to CIN in history.
And we are expected to belive that this isnt a cover up.
And as for This Morning? Well i expected no different from the TV equivalent of Closer magazine. All the celebrity related stuff is mysogynistic in the extreme. TM should stick to discussing reality shows and soaps because they either just dont know how to deal with serious issues or there is another more serious agenda at play.

Darkesteyes Thu 01-Nov-12 21:15:08

Sorry. I meant another more sinister agenda at play.

AnyaKnowIt Thu 01-Nov-12 21:22:53

Is the BBC Crumbria about what type of woman? I've seen they have said something has been deleted.

NigellasGuest Thu 01-Nov-12 21:35:59
ha3782 Thu 01-Nov-12 21:38:15

What did BBC Cumbria say? Now it just says they deleted an offensive tweet...did they say something stupid?

ha3782 Thu 01-Nov-12 21:39:46

No Nigellasguest. The vid where he admits he knew about his client having sex with 14-year-olds and protecting him.

AnyaKnowIt Thu 01-Nov-12 21:40:40

If you could have a Filipino woman why would you want a Cumbrian one? Join in the conversation on the Mike Zeller Show

Darkesteyes Thu 01-Nov-12 21:41:37
edam Thu 01-Nov-12 21:43:56

Not only offensive but also inaccurate - a woman from the Philippines is a Filipina not a Filipino. Sexist thicko.

Darkesteyes Thu 01-Nov-12 21:44:12

Everyday Sexism took a screen shot of the tweets which i have posted above.
the BBC are treating people with absolute contempt. Its sickening.

Darkesteyes Thu 01-Nov-12 21:47:36

They have apologised for putting up the initial tweet saying it was inappropriate <because they got called on it> but they are not saying that the discussion itself was inappropriate.
Will the BBC EVER learn?!

TunipTheHollowVegemalLantern Thu 01-Nov-12 21:52:42

Yes, when they have equal numbers of men and women in both senior and junior posts, then they will learn smile

margerybruce Fri 02-Nov-12 11:26:53

Iain Overton &#8207;@iainoverton
If all goes well we've got a Newsnight out tonight about a very senior political figure who is a paedophile.
Retweeted by tom_watson
Collapse Reply Retweeted Favorite
Add message | Report | Message poster margerybruce Fri 02-Nov-12 11:17:00
Daniel Furr &#8207;@DanielFurrUK
@iainoverton I'm assuming this person is no longer alive?
Collapse Reply Retweet Favorite
3:32 AM - 2 Nov 12 · Details
29m Iain Overton &#8207;@iainoverton
@DanielFurrUK nope. Alive.
Hide conversation Reply Retweet Favorite
3:47 AM - 2 Nov 12 · Details
Tweet text

MrsjREwing Fri 02-Nov-12 12:00:21

A current seniour politician will be outed as a peadophile by Newsnight according to Iain Overton!

thegriffon Fri 02-Nov-12 12:01:24

Daily Mail article on EH's house being sold The comments are more interesting than the article.

AnyaKnowIt Fri 02-Nov-12 12:01:49

When? tonight?

AnyaKnowIt Fri 02-Nov-12 12:13:47

Its gone to the lawyers...

MrsjREwing Fri 02-Nov-12 12:13:49

yes tonight, I started a thread on the newnight story, I think it will be huge.

AnyaKnowIt Fri 02-Nov-12 12:16:27
TunipTheHollowVegemalLantern Fri 02-Nov-12 12:37:51

Re EH's house, I actually googled and found that they were talking about selling it a year ago but couldn't get permission, so it is not as sudden as I thought. Will look at the comments. It is always interesting to see what people think is going on.

MrsjREwing Fri 02-Nov-12 12:41:58

The last comment (most recent) in that TH article was interesting, that person has been travelling in countries with no extradition agreements and complaining of bad health, the past few weeks.

AnyaKnowIt Fri 02-Nov-12 12:45:15

Daily mail are not accepting any more comments, I must have missed that one Mrsj

Arisbottle Fri 02-Nov-12 12:50:00

Someone has gone on a long summer holiday, I wonder if he has gone on a red bus

MrsjREwing Fri 02-Nov-12 12:50:38

Are the comments gone now?

Arisbottle Fri 02-Nov-12 12:51:47

No it was there just now.

AnyaKnowIt Fri 02-Nov-12 12:54:18

There are still comments there but they have been moderated

margerybruce Fri 02-Nov-12 14:49:54

Michael Crick &#8207;@MichaelLCrick
The senior political figure due to be accused paedophile activity by BBC tonight tells me that he still hasn't heard from them for response
Expand Reply Retweet Favorite
1h Michael Crick &#8207;@MichaelLCrick
"Senior political figure" due to be accused tonight by BBC of being paedophile denies allegations + tells me he'll issue libel writ agst BBC

AnyaKnowIt Fri 02-Nov-12 19:10:50

FS had been released on bail again

JennyPiccolo Fri 02-Nov-12 23:29:15

Tomorrow's Sun alleges Leonard Rossiter sexually abused an extra.

AnyaKnowIt Fri 02-Nov-12 23:43:07
Darkesteyes Sat 03-Nov-12 00:57:35

Christ this article here as really made me angry. I guess this must be Meirion Jones aunt.


clam Sat 03-Nov-12 09:52:04

darkesteyes In fairness, it's the Daily Mail. It's their main aim in life to make you feel angry!

MommazBoy Sat 03-Nov-12 11:05:56


Tuesday, 16 October 2012

Establishment Paedophiles exposed, Jimmy Savile is just the tip of the iceberg.



Monday, 29 October 2012
Holly Barker sectioned in Oxfordshire for trying to protect her daughter.
Subject: Holly Barker sectioned in Oxfordshire for trying to protect her daughter – For Immediate Release
Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2012 19:44:08 +0100

For immediate and widespread distribution – Mother at risk of forcible drugging with anti-psychotic medication. "Holly Barker, a caring mother, has been sectioned on Friday 26 October 2012 by Oxfordshire and Welsh Child Services and Mental Health Teams for trying to defend her daughter against abuse.



Wednesday, 31 October 2012
Another B.B.C. cover-up of establishment paedophiles? Cyril Smith M.P.

We have it on good authority that the B.B.C. has also done a documentary on Cyril Smith M.P. (now dead), investigating child abuse in care homes. One wonders if the B.B.C. will deliberately hold back this documentary, like they did with the Savile one.



Monday, 9 April 2012
Dunblane, another establishment paedophile cover-up.



Ben Fellows - I published a story with a headline that




‘Jimmy Savile wasn’t the only one at the BBC’, says investigative journalist and former child actor Ben Fellows.

Concerning revelations about child sexual abuse at the BBC, but the truth is there are pedophiles everywhere in the entertainment industry. Many of them are in positions of power and influence within their
respective organisations, including adult stars, directors, producers and executives.

The following accounts are just some of my own personal experiences – and brushes with pedophilia out in the entertainment and big media spheres, as a child star who attended the Sylvia Young Theatre School in London...



Wednesday, 24 October 2012

Google "Hollie Greig". The Establishments paedophile cover-ups must end!!!!!




Patrick Henningsen
21st Century Wire

Yesterday, an apparently very brave MP named Tom Watson stepped up and said what every other member of Parliament in that chamber knows, but could not muster the courage to speak up about.

No matter how the current government and their opposition across the table – spin this, this child abuse and paedophile disease infects not only the whole of the BBC, but also every other public institution –
from government, to education, to child services, the police and even members of the judiciary. Anyone who is involved, or knows about – is part of a shameful conspiracy.



Jimmy Savile wrote in his book about spending the night with an underage runaway girl, and being untouchable by the police:


... The officeress was dissuaded from bringing charges against me by her colleagues, for it was well known that were I to go I would probably take half the (police) station with me.


MORE than 400 children are sexually abused every week in Britain — one every 20 MINUTES The 43 police forces in England and Wales recorded 23,097child sex offences in 2011 and is equivalent to 444 attacks a week — or one child abused every 20 minutes, and the abuse is getting worse with paedophile rings being set up in
almost every county in the UK Giving a voice back to the victims and survivors of Child sexual abuse



MommazBoy Sat 03-Nov-12 11:15:07

The last part was meant read like this:

MORE than 400 children are sexually abused every week in Britain — one every 20 MINUTES The 43 police forces in England and Wales recorded 23,097child sex offences in 2011 and is equivalent to 444 attacks a week — or one child abused every 20 minutes, and the abuse is getting worse with paedophile rings being set up in
almost every county in the UK.

Giving a voice back to the victims and survivors of Child sexual abuse,


MommazBoy Sat 03-Nov-12 11:37:27

October 15th, 1997


Policemen, social workers and prominent public figures have been accused of belonging to a paedophile ring which indulged in a relentless campaign of physical and sexual abuse in children's homes in North Wales.

The names of the alleged members of the ring have been given by witnesses in public sessions of the North Wales Child Abuse Tribunal, but they have been suppressed by the tribunal's chairman, Sir Ronald Waterhouse QC, who has threatened the media with High Court proceedings if they print them.

The Guardian today publishes for the first time detailed evidence about the alleged ring, which is said to have been based in Wrexham, and to have infiltrated local children's homes over a 20 year period.

Witnesses claim that members of the ring used their connections with police and social services to conceal their activities. All of the accused have denied the allegations.


MommazBoy Sat 03-Nov-12 11:44:13

Please take time to check out the rest of the links on the right hand side of this article here:

Possible elite British paedophile ring

State cover-up
Tony Hyland wrote an article entitled: 'State cover-up of high level paedophile ring.'

Care workers ... acted as go-betweens for a paedophile ring that extends into the topmost layers of society.

Policemen, church ministers, local authority executives, senior businessmen and politicians, including someone believed to be a leading supporter of Margaret Thatcher, have been identified.

The present Public Tribunal into the case...... measures have been taken to prevent the proceedings from being covered fully in the national media.


hmm links to blogs with followers who subscribe to white supremacy and rampant anti semitism hmm

can anyone find more information on the people released from broadmoor under saville? i've been googling but can only find it mentioned passingly in articles - surely merits closer investigation?

LineRunner Sat 03-Nov-12 16:01:22

I agree, swallowedAfly. Who are the prisoners JS apparently released from Broadmoor? What were they there for - medical treatment or custodial punishment and rehabilitation? Did they re-offend?

LineRunner Sat 03-Nov-12 16:04:16

Sorry, not prisoners - inmates.

sieglinde Sat 03-Nov-12 16:34:06

Throughout, I have been AMAZED by people's surprise over all this. There have been constant and pretty definite rumours about many of those now accused for many years. Because they are rumours, I think those of us who had heard them just took it was a warning; no copper would have listened to me if I'd toddled in and said so and so just told me x about y. I include some instances which will probably get my post deleted. I won't mention a name, but there is a cabinet minister of the 1980s and 1990s who was very widely known to be a pedophile all through those years. Interesting that it's apparently going to come out now.
As for the palace and Savile, well, am I alone in hearing rumours of high - erm - very high level palace involvement in boysex rings in the same years? The same informant told me in the mid-80s that both Charles and Diana were having affairs...

LineRunner Sat 03-Nov-12 16:42:19

I heard the necrophilia rumours back in the 1980s as a student.

mignonette Sat 03-Nov-12 17:03:10

Max Clifford is filth, vermin, an apologist and hider of alleged paedophilia and I pity his daughter for having him as a father.....Sue me....

CFSKate Sat 03-Nov-12 17:15:17


"I’m not going to let this drop despite warnings from people who should know that my personal safety is imperilled if I dig any deeper. It’s spooked me so much that I’ve kept a detailed log of all the allegations should anything happen."

i don't think i'm surprised that these people are sexual offenders or that abuse of children and women is seen as such a trifle as to be nudge, nudged about and tolerated even by those who don't partake. i think the surprise perhaps comes in finally seeing it talked about - the surprise comes from the 'coming out' rather than what is coming out for me itms,

sieglinde Sat 03-Nov-12 17:39:50

Yes, I get that swallowedafly. Some relief, too.

yes but a tempered relief because i suspect the cover up machine will be fully operational.

the weird thing is that it is SO obvious - we know powerful men abuse their power and that abuse of power is most often directed at children and women - we KNOW it is the 'perk'. yet the official silence and protection is remarkable. because we do all know don't we? we know!

let's face it you only have to take a glimpse at pornography (multi million pound industry that it is rather than some dirty little back street sideline) to know that mainstream male sexuality, given the chance, is about abuse. it caters to the appetite and the appetite demands degradation, humiliation and the inflicting of pain and suffering. the younger the subject the better.

i don't know why we pretend that this is such a small sideline issue. there is a broad audience for this stuff. a LOT of men are turned on by this stuff. it is no surprise surely when a significant section of men with power take the opportunity of their power to live out this stuff.

sieglinde Sat 03-Nov-12 17:54:31

Yes, clearly the machine at work already on Newsnight. They wussed out... what is the point of a publicly-funded channel if they won't tell the truth?

the truth is huge though isn't it. and we already know it. we don't the names and details but we know. powerful men be they popstars or politicians like fucking children - always have done. it's not a nice truth but we know it's true.

and young girls are seen as fair game. they're not given the protection of being seen as 'children' - it's always mentioned that they were young girls or their age stated emphatically etc as if somehow post 12 girls become sexual provocateurs rather than - children! i don't give a toss if the 14 year old in question seemed keen or pliable to being given cigs or whatever because in my mind there is a very clear factor - it is a CHILD. but when it comes to girls and powerful men suddenly that 'child' status evaporates and she is given an autonomy and agency that would be laughable in any sphere other than sex.

sorry bit of a rant but watching these people defend why they said nothing or how they laughed and joked about it or felt distaste towards the 12 year old sat next to jimmy - god and the guy who took the piss out of the suppo9sed 12 year olds accent - has made me feel sick at men's attitude to girls. they are things to them. it's horrific to watch.

bringupthebabies Sat 03-Nov-12 18:31:14
mignonette Sat 03-Nov-12 21:28:15

Yes, Swallowed and Bill Wyman was never prosecuted and Mandy Smith portrayed as a Lolita/Femme Fatale when she was a 13 year old child.....

MrsDeVere Sat 03-Nov-12 21:39:08

Jesus dont get me started on THAT.

It burns me that he is seen as a national treasure. That girl never recovered and was pilloried by the media.

mignonette Sat 03-Nov-12 21:43:43

He's much less of a national treasure, I think. I have relatives near Gedding where he has a country house. He's not so well thought of....

MrsDeVere Sat 03-Nov-12 21:51:15

Rock Royalty then.. Definitely rock royalty.


IWouldLoveToStandAsAnIndie Sat 03-Nov-12 21:54:23

Regular here. Name change. Tom Watson . OMG. have read the threads, read thinking it can't all be true..... . Have always believed in the victims but have read the sovile threads hoping and praying can't all be true. Jeez. Keep fact finding and tell the world. All of this is a living hell .

mignonette Sat 03-Nov-12 21:56:07

My impression is that his fellow musicians distanced themselves afterwards...Not enough to boycott the wedding though....

Jux Sat 03-Nov-12 23:56:23

The trouble with the Mandy Smith thing was that her mother completely approved. She said so on national tv. I remember being horrified that a girl as young as she would even be remotely interested in a man his age, but then her mum sat there going on and on about how delighted she was when the relationship started. My mouth was hanging open! I was with my parents, in the sitting room, as she and her mum were being interviewed. My parents were equally horrified.

So if her own mum thinks it's great, who is actually going to press charges?

mignonette Sat 03-Nov-12 23:58:18

Exactly. Poor girl never stood a chance. However the police/CPS can press charges independently of what parents want or think.

LineRunner Sat 03-Nov-12 23:59:56

Didn't the mother then have a thing with Bill Wyman's step-son?

mignonette Sun 04-Nov-12 00:00:35

Yes.....<<<<<< blech >>>>>>

LineRunner Sun 04-Nov-12 00:16:18

Ecen now the media, if you look, say things like Mandy Smith at 13 'lured' Bill Wyman.

Jux Sun 04-Nov-12 01:12:08

Could the CPS do that then, though, mignonette? I'm not sure they could. There was a girl in my year at school - early 70s, we were 14ish - whose 25 yo boyfriend was up in court for statutory rape, as her dad pressed charges. There was some talk at the time, among the adults, that if she'd been able to persuade her dad not to, nothing could have been done.

Strange to remember how none of us saw it as abusive, or disgusting; simply how mature she must have been, almost as if she were a different breed from us low-lifes, that she had a bf so much older. Not that any many of us would actually have done anything other than run away had we had similar opportunity.


i want to see the names released and a full proper open enquiry.

mignonette Sun 04-Nov-12 08:42:01

I'm not sure, Jux...sad...I would think that there have been cases, plenty of cases where charges were made irrespective of whatever victim/perp wanted but cannot be sure regarding such a high profile case.

NapOfTheDamned Mon 05-Nov-12 01:23:33

A good thread on the subject on another forum.


Site editor is libel conscious so should be safe...

NapOfTheDamned Mon 05-Nov-12 01:23:57
sieglinde Mon 05-Nov-12 08:51:41

Thanks for that link, napofthedamned.

margerybruce Mon 05-Nov-12 09:46:14

Greeting Cards for Justice

Please join in with this ........

co-ordinated campaign to send a card to highlight abuse of children and demand action

Hummingbirds Mon 05-Nov-12 22:14:35

Further to the link to the Jailhouse Lawyer blog which named four Conservative politicians: my intuition was right. According to a former barrister,

"He [Jailhouse Lawyer] says he’s got sources for the allegations and will go to prison to protect them."

And the barrister himself claims also to have sources for allegations against three of the men:

"I will say that my source was a senior public official who was involved with the tribunal of inquiry into the abuse of children in care in North Wales, known as the Waterhouse Inquiry."

Explosive stuff indeed!

Hummingbirds Mon 05-Nov-12 22:15:00

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

MrsjREwing Mon 05-Nov-12 22:30:37

I hope you don't mind, I reported as the link names people, if the link said "look here" for example I wouldn't have reported.

Hummingbirds Mon 05-Nov-12 22:37:50

link of barrister's site here:

barrister's blog

sieglinde Tue 06-Nov-12 09:43:33

Wow. Excludes the name of the minister of whom I was told. So more to emerge, I think.

Jux Tue 06-Nov-12 14:52:37

One very bad thing about Newsnight and so on bottling out, not naming names, is that a lot of speculation goes on, with the risk of irrevocably damaging innocent people too.

I am getting fed up with hints and winks, and speculation gone wild - not here - and just want someone to say "no, not him/her, that's not who I'm talking about; I'm talking about X". Can even the victims not do that?

Why was that footballer, who recently went down for rape, named before trial, and none of these people?

MrsjREwing Tue 06-Nov-12 14:55:36

Is he even in the Uk?

I don't understand why else he hasn't been arrested?

EmmelineGoulden Tue 06-Nov-12 17:35:47

Jux Papers can report if someone is arrested or charged. They can make other factual statements about what goes on in court and what claims are made in court because court proceedings have a protected status. But if they take that further and suggest an accused is guilty before being convicted, there is a possibility they will be sued for libel.

Victims can make statements to the police, but they can't publish those accusations anywhere without risking being sued. Newspapers etc. reporting that x says such and such about y, if that claim isn't made in court (or under parliamentary privilege), can be sued for publishing the claim made by x. So if they cannot substantiate the claim to the high standards required by our libel laws, they are in danger of having to pay substantial damages.

Jux Wed 07-Nov-12 00:13:30

Thank you, Emmeline. I kind of knew that really, but it's helpful to have it spelt out clearly. It is morally right too, the intention is to protect the innocent. At the moment though I think there are probably at least some innocents caught up in it.

EmmelineGoulden Wed 07-Nov-12 08:46:02

Sorry, I wasn't meaning to patronize.

I think our libel laws are frequently used to protect the guilty as well as the innocent. I don't think we've got the balance right at all, but I'm not sure what the best way to change them would be. There are always unintended consequences.

Jux Wed 07-Nov-12 10:40:06

Not patronising, Emmeline; I meant the thanks genuinely. I did and do find your post helpful!

am i being paranoid to now think it isn't so surprising that trying to get anonymity for those accused of rape was one of the tory parties first orders of business upon getting into power? it seemed such an odd starting point at the time.

NapDamnYou Fri 09-Nov-12 18:43:39
bringupthebabies Fri 09-Nov-12 18:55:56

What did people expect?

If you were accused of child abuse and had actually committed that most heinous and immoral of crimes, would you ignore the accusations for years and years and then suddenly confess?

Or would you deny it, hoping that it would be suppressed and covered-up as it had been for the last 30 years?

I don't think the statement today makes one jot of difference to anything - innocence or guilt.

When I read Lord McA's name linked to Bryn Estyn I must admit I immediately thought of the McAlpine I know of in north wales during that time - the one who owned Penrhyn Quarry - less than an hour's drive from Wrexham.


bringupthebabies Fri 09-Nov-12 19:05:38


Just wanted to copy this interview over to the new thread because, for those who think it's just a load of internet-inflated exaggeration, or the allegations are motivated by compo claims, the C4 interview with Sian Griffiths corroborates the allegations and the subsequent establishment cover-up, as well as the truth of the accusations against 3 people in high positions.

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