"Sex offender doctors can't be banned in case it breaches human rights"

(51 Posts)
NameChangingYetAgain Tue 25-Sep-12 14:49:26

From the Telegraph

Can anyone explain to me why the fuck they can't?

NameChangingYetAgain Tue 25-Sep-12 15:25:45

Sorry, I didn;t mean to swear.

hiddenhome Tue 25-Sep-12 16:41:40

Disgusting.

I was seriously sexually assaulted by two separate doctors - one was a consultant paediatrician when I was young, the other an obstetric registrar when I was pregnant with ds1 sad

edam Tue 25-Sep-12 17:00:43

Bollocks, now to do with the Human Rights Act at all - it's the GMC justifying their own lack of oomph as usual. Sadly the current lot really aren't focused on protecting patients. The GMC may not have the legal power to ban sex offenders automatically but that's not the fault of the HRA, it's something the GMC should have the wit to ask for. When he talks about an independent panel, I assume he's referring to the GMC's own panels that hear misconduct cases. So all he's saying is that sex offenders aren't automatically banned, they have to go through misconduct hearings. (I think the GMC may have a backlog of these.) It's down to Dixon to ask for the power to automatically ban sex offenders, rather than trying to deflect criticism by saying ooh, not our fault mate.

hiddenhome Tue 25-Sep-12 21:12:11

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

ReallyTired Tue 25-Sep-12 21:16:15

So why is that some one with a caution for something silly like being drunk in public at 15 is banned from teaching? Surely a doctor should have to have a clean CRB check like teachers.

RagingDull Tue 25-Sep-12 21:21:55

interesting. it came to light some years ago that one of my doctors has indecent images of children on his PC and kept some pseudo images in his locked desk - a locum found them.

he was sacked but moved and was practicing again until an ex patient spotted him in another county and outed him.

he was a creepy creepy little man and his wife was a psychologist. i cannot understand why human rights legislation trumps the rights of children he could go on to abuse or watch being abused over the internet.

the job i am in is ruled by HR legislation and it is a joke. it ties our hands to a degree which makes it almost impossible to work sometimes.

RagingDull Tue 25-Sep-12 21:23:09

btw - he was convicted of having pornographic images of children - does this mean he could be practicing again?

scaevola Tue 25-Sep-12 21:29:04

Doctors do have to be CRB checked; that's what the article means by GMC saying that it's up to the employing Health Trusts.

This is about whether they are struck off the Medical Register. I note the article cites 31 doctors, but later says only 10 are in contact with patients. What are the others doing? For this suggests there are posts which use their medical knowledge but do not put them in contact with patients.

iklboo Tue 25-Sep-12 21:35:15

Doctors do have CRB checks. They're only worth anything if they've been caught for anything.

seeker Tue 25-Sep-12 21:36:19

In what way is this anything to do with Human Rights Legislation?

I have actually never come across anyone who claims that their "hands were tied" by Human Rights Legislation" who didn't want to do something that would breach someone's human rights.......

kissyfur Tue 25-Sep-12 21:42:37

WTAF?? Surely they gave up their human rights when they committed sex offences!? Disgusting

RagingDull Tue 25-Sep-12 21:44:14

i am not going to reveal what i do seeker but what i do is to the benefit of society and is very hard to do at times as the "baddies" have more rights than you or i.

seeker Tue 25-Sep-12 21:47:06

"i am not going to reveal what i do seeker but what i do is to the benefit of society and is very hard to do at times as the "baddies" have more rights than you or i."

No they don't.

RagingDull Tue 25-Sep-12 21:49:21

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

stitch Tue 25-Sep-12 21:55:13

now i want to know what raging dull does. seems far more interesting than some legislation the gmc has.

RillaBlythe Tue 25-Sep-12 21:57:29

Doctors are CRB checked right from being medical students.

weegiemum Tue 25-Sep-12 22:00:45

Tee talking bollocks!!

MY dh is a GP. One allegation of sexual misconduct he'd be out of a job. For good. Which happened to a colleague of his

seeker Tue 25-Sep-12 22:09:14

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

scaevola Tue 25-Sep-12 22:14:11

I've just had a look at the article.

It doesn't say the GMC cannot remove doctors from the Register upon conviction (whether sexual or other serious offence), it says they cannot do so automatically and it seems the HR issue concerns automaticity, not ability to ban. So all it means is they have to have a hearing.

Same for all (?) similar bodies - doesn't eg every lawyer get a hearing before being struck off?

mirry2 Tue 25-Sep-12 22:24:02

I was sexually assaulted several times by my GP some years ago when i was in my teens but didn't really realise that he was carrying out an uneccessary examination until he made some extremely explicit moves on me. I was too scared to complain and felt too sillly that I had allowed him to do what he did so I moved GPs instead. I subsequently learnt from friend that he was notorious for sexually interfering with young girls living away from home. How times have changed - I hope.

lljkk Tue 25-Sep-12 22:30:43

Well spotted, Scaevola.
I know it's a small comfort, but I thought the situation was that anyone on SOR was banned by other laws (that don't conflict with HR legislation) from working with any vulnerable individuals, too. It's an offence for them to merely apply for jobs that require contact with vulnerable adults or children.

Implies all this article has to do with is procedures for dismissal & maybe doctors in private practice.

RagingDull Tue 25-Sep-12 22:32:51

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OliviaPeaceAndLoveMumsnet (MNHQ) Tue 25-Sep-12 22:36:32

Ahem

lljkk Tue 25-Sep-12 22:38:50

Aw nuts, that's no fair, too quick for me to read it more than once.

RagingDull Tue 25-Sep-12 22:39:05

well i reported so thats fine.
i stand by saying that this poster is argumentative and unpleasant.

scaevola Tue 25-Sep-12 22:39:09

Automaticity and the SOR in itself has also been problematic following a Supreme Court ruling: Guardian article about this and it does look as if it's the EU Human Rights angle that lies behind it.

RagingDull Tue 25-Sep-12 22:39:31

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

seeker Tue 25-Sep-12 22:39:55

Hang on a minute! Why was I deleted? That's ridiculous!

seeker Tue 25-Sep-12 22:41:35

I said nothing offensive or inflammatory.

lljkk Tue 25-Sep-12 22:41:48

It happens to the best of us, Seeker. wink

edam Tue 25-Sep-12 22:45:36

No, you didn't seeker, can't understand the deletion. Nor why insults directed at you are allowed to stand while the person making them goes running to MNHQ to have your posts deleted.

seeker Tue 25-Sep-12 22:47:40

When I think of the stuff that's allowed to stand.....

I don't hold with deletions at all except in very rare circumstances- but this one really beggars belief.

lljkk Tue 25-Sep-12 22:47:42

Well, imho, I thought Seeker's comment was sharp & personal, but basically.... this isn't a forum for Free Speech. It's MNHQ's call what content stays. They are the publishers. Go stand on a street corner if you want actual free speech.

seeker Tue 25-Sep-12 22:48:25

Explanation, please, MNHQ.

seeker Tue 25-Sep-12 22:49:38

What was "sharp and personal"?

lljkk Tue 25-Sep-12 22:52:59

Oh Fig, I dunno remember exactly what you said only my impression of it, and if I could remember the exact words i'd have to repeat which probably means me deleted too.

Let it go Seeker, shouldn't we all be in bed now, anyway?

OliviaPeaceAndLoveMumsnet (MNHQ) Tue 25-Sep-12 22:53:14

seeker

Hang on a minute! Why was I deleted? That's ridiculous!

Hi there
We deleted because it contained personal information
Thanks

OliviaPeaceAndLoveMumsnet (MNHQ) Tue 25-Sep-12 22:55:08

NB we have deleted attacks made by the posted "outed"
Please do report anything you think we ought to see thanks
and Peace and love all (must take off international peace day name change blush)

lljkk Tue 25-Sep-12 22:55:46

I got deleted for making up a silly rhyme which basically ended in stating that another poster was talking poo; it was obvious joke whereas yours was more direct (?harsh, judgemental) opinion on presumed other poster's background.

Just let it go.

seeker Tue 25-Sep-12 23:00:40

The other poster outed herself. I was not harsh or judgemental.

And exactly who are you to tell me to "let it go"?

OliviaPeaceAndLoveMumsnet (MNHQ) Tue 25-Sep-12 23:02:22

Peace and Love

crazynanna Tue 25-Sep-12 23:04:25

I think Olivia has been making her own cigarettes' wink

OliviaPeaceAndLoveMumsnet (MNHQ) Tue 25-Sep-12 23:07:52

crazynanna

I think Olivia has been making her own cigarettes' wink

grin Actually I don't smoke.
Some nights I just want everyone to get along (man)
grin

sashh Wed 26-Sep-12 03:26:55

Only 10 are still in contact with patients without sanctions. There are a whole range of 'sex crimes' and I know I'm going to be flamed but there are differences.

Do any of you remember Sam Fox appearing in page 3 aged 16? Those images are now classed as child porn.

A child has criminal responsibility from age 10, so a child who looks up the skirt of another child can be a sex ofender, as can a child looking at internet porn.

We do not have the details of what these doctors have done, we do not know what their punishment is.

I think the GMC is right not to automatically bad doctors but take things on a case by case basis.

lljkk

You can be put on the SOR for a nmber of years, or you can apply after 10 years to be removed depending on the circumstances.

scaevola
A CRB check just shows if you have a criminal record and what for. Hospitals / schools / boy scouts etc have to check individuals but that's it. Just to check, there are no rules about a CRB being clean, or not having a criminal record.

I think the GMC, rightly or wrongly, also take into account a doctor's work / research.

Say your child was ill, seriously ill. There is only one doctor in the UK who can opperate to change your child's life.

Two years ago at a social event they grabbed a colleague's breast. They have been to court and given a reeducation programme as punishment. During the course the Dr realises how innapropriate the action was and is truly sorry.

Now are you going to say that Dr should not operate on your cchild?

I know that Drs can and do behave appaulingly aat times, but I think if you lump them all together and any conviction stops them working as a Dr, or even researching you are doing a disservice to some.

The bloody human rights brigade starts its lunacy again!
The innocent members/victims lifes should be protected from predators but yet again criminals rights come firstsad
Disgusting

seeker Wed 26-Sep-12 06:33:43

Yep. Why let the facts get in the way of a good story?

LonelyCloud Wed 26-Sep-12 06:45:19

I know people, including doctors, who work in hospitals, and all medical staff working with patients have to be CRB checked.

mellen Wed 26-Sep-12 06:48:02

I think that the Human Rights angle is to do with the need for there to be a hearing/ process for banning rather than it being automatic, and that it will depend on the facts of the case, not presence on the sex offenders register (though what the person has done to get there will be taken very seriously by them).

If a doctor is found guilty of any offence at all the GMC are informed. Depending on what the offence is they will investigate and take sanctions. They can act very quickly if needed, they can issue interim orders pending full investigation.

scaevola Wed 26-Sep-12 06:49:31

Pumpkin: did you see that they can be banned, the issue is with extending to automaticity ?

Why is it disgusting that GMC bans strikes off doctors who commit serious offences after a hearing?

lljkk Wed 26-Sep-12 07:30:25

blimey Seeker, just trying to be friendly. Won't bother in future.

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