Petition to put a halt to the planned child benefit/tax credits cut and introduce an "upper earnings limit" instead

(72 Posts)
donnaw25 Mon 07-Jun-10 21:33:04

Hi,

I have started a petition that I intend on sending to 10 Downing Street (if enough signatures are collected) to try to put a stop to the Government cutting out child benefit and child tax credits and instead introduce an "upper earnings limit" to stop overpaid celebrities, PMs and even the MP himself from taking all of the Country's money and leaving the rest of us to pick up the pieces through cuts.

If you agree with me, the petition can be found here: http://www.gopetition.co.uk/online/36972.html
Thanks in advance to all those who are in agreement and sign.

We would ALL be happier if the earnings gap was dramatically reduced.

There is an oversupply of highly skilled labour in the UK. If all these 'superrich' people left there would be plently of others willing and just as capable of doing a good job who would happily take £80k.

People should be able to earn some reward for innovation but this shouldn't be as out of proportion to the majority's earnings as it is at present.

Just because someone has 'worked hard' to get into a high paid position doesnt mean that those who earn a pittance dont work just as hard (if not harder).

I do think there has to some some kind of penalty on the British people who move abroad to avoid UK tax, eg Lewis Hamilton, Jenson Button, Richard Branson. James Caan, Sean Connery, Roger Moore, Ringo Starr- why cant we do what the Americans do and revoke citizenship for tax exiles?

MintHumbug Tue 08-Jun-10 08:49:09

Assuming you ignore the fact that driving wealthier people abroad would lead to job loses in the UK
And assuming you ignore the fact that wealthier people contribute 50 - 65% of their earnings to the government (depending how you calculate the super tax, N.I etc)
And assuming that you ignore the fact that this would drive everybody's salary down (if the Head of Marks and Spencers can only earn £80k, his underlings will have to have salary cuts so that they all still earn much less than him. Why would anyone take the risk and stress of a CEO job if others in the company earns nearly as much?

If you ignore all that - it still wouldn't be desirable or practical because only 10% of people earn over £45k. Of those a teeny weeny percentage earn over £100k so all that paperwork and time would go to chasing a handful of people for extra money. It would cost more to do than it would raise.

donnaw25 Tue 08-Jun-10 09:11:05

I couldn't edit my original post but changed the petition wording very shortly after it went live, but obviously Go Petition did not update this until several hours after.

After a rethink, I realised that the upper earnings limit suggestion would have very little impact on the situation but instead highlighted a report of how much of tax payer's money was used to fund celebrities appearing in Government campaigns etc. It is this kind of thing that should have a cap.

The original plan was to cut child tax credits to households earning £50k + which I aagree was a sensible level, but it is now being suggested that the level is lowered to £26k and anyone who is still entitled to tax credits will receive a lower figure than they currently do.

Whilst £1055 p/a in child benefit may not have an impact on some families, it does on others and for some, it is the difference between being able to afford the every day bills and not. Child tax credits are in place to help working families with the cost of childcare - by cutting back on these, all that will be encouraged is new mothers not to return to work.

GypsyMoth Tue 08-Jun-10 09:19:35

i suggest we leave the intricacie of who earns what ,to those who know what they are doing.....i.e the new government.

give them a bloody chance to correct it first before you start bandying 'petitions' around!!

Fruitysunshine Tue 08-Jun-10 09:19:48

foreverastudent "Just because someone has 'worked hard' to get into a high paid position doesnt mean that those who earn a pittance dont work just as hard (if not harder).

Define 'work harder'. In which way? My DH has often worked 12-14 days on the trot doing 12hr shifts in all kinds of weather then comes home to be a husband and father and deal with all of the things other people in every other family deal with. He has worked himself into the ground at times to get into the position he is in now and he deserves every penny he earns.

I am not saying that people who earn less don't work hard but I earn less than DH and I don't have the stress of the responsibility that he does - with an increase in salary comes an increase in responsibility. In his role if someone dies through a health and safety accident he will be the one up in court. Can you give me an example of where someone may work harder than him who earns far less money doing a similar role? It has to be like for like, surely?

MintHumbug Tue 08-Jun-10 09:28:03

donnaw25 - I had only heard tax credits being cut for those on over £50k. I haven't heard anything about lower earners being effected so I am not sure where that comes from.

Something very controversial to consider though in these times is should women be actively encouraged to return to work after having babies? - from an economic point of view I mean (it would be awful to limit choice for women, ruin long term careers, force women who want to work into the isoclation of being at home etc etc) ....
but purely from a money point of view and not a social or equality point of view:
should you return to a job that pays you so little that the only way you can afford to do it is if the Government steps in and tops up your salary (ie pays towards your childcare)? Is that not just a good excuse for salaries always to be kept too low and for government spending to be kept too high?

This is unthinkable to many women but not so long ago tax credits didn't exist. Only 10 years ago I didn't go back to work because London childcare for a baby was over £50 a day and I simply didn't earn enough after tax to pay childcare. Most of my friends had to wait 2 years or so before returning and many hated it but at the same time can governments afford to do the alternative which is pay women for the priviledge of taking a job that doesn't cover their childcare costs?

<<Dons hard hat even though I am honestly just musing the costs of it all not actually suggesting it should or would be changed>>

gaelicsheep Tue 08-Jun-10 09:31:22

OP - get your facts right. CTC has nothing to do with childcare costs. The childcare element of WTC does that, and cuts to that have never been mentioned - unless you know something I don't?

gaelicsheep Tue 08-Jun-10 09:33:52

In fact why not pay everyone a flat rate salary on the basis that "everyone works hard"? That way, none of us would have to work hard at school, bother to go to university and work hard for a degree or bother to go the extra mile in our careers. We could all sit back safe in the knowledge that none of this would make any difference, because as long as we're prepared to turn up for work when we're an adult we'll be looked after just fine.

MintHumbug Tue 08-Jun-10 09:35:23

Fruity - that is true. I only know one person who is a true high earner (ie way over £100k a year) and I wouldn't fancy doing what they have to do to earn that amount.

Their job isn't a job it is their whole life. They can be telephoned on Sunday afternoon and be told to catch a flight for a meeting that evening. They work 6am - 9pm pretty everyday, never take their full holiday entitlement, spend their social life taking out clients and entertaining people they barely know. They spent the morning of their wedding day at work and had no honeymoon. They go on fabulous holidays abroad but are often summoned back after only 2 or 3 days away. They see their children about once a fortnight. They constantly live looking over their shoulder because they are responsible for the work of so many people and they can be dismissed pretty much in an instant if they screw up (its an industry where if you complain or heaven forbid go to tribunal you would never work again and would be shunned).

donnaw25 Tue 08-Jun-10 09:44:32

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/leading_article/article7145163.ece

"Mr Cameron makes specific suggestions for savings from welfare-to-work or from restricting child tax credits to families on less than £26,000 a year."

There are numerous other articles indicating the same thing. My husband and I earn just below this threshold between us so would ultimately not be affected but a cut in the amount we receive would hinder us financially.

I somewhat agree with your comments on taking on a job that cannot cover the cost of childcare but I do think that families should be able to juggle being a parent and still having a career. I myself only work part-time but it is nice to be able to still have my foot in the door of employment and at least try to pay my way in life. I also believe it does my son good to be around other children of various ages as it is building his social skills. I am not on a poor hourly rate but must admit that I do rely on the tax credits we receive along with the child benefit to cover our every day outgoings and we certainly do not have luxuries, so every penny is essential.

BadgersPaws Tue 08-Jun-10 09:44:39

"After a rethink, I realised that the upper earnings limit suggestion would have very little impact on the situation but instead highlighted a report of how much of tax payer's money was used to fund celebrities appearing in Government campaigns etc. It is this kind of thing that should have a cap."

That "report", in fact a Daily Mail story which is probably more than a little biased, highlights that £325,000 was spent on celebrities for Government ad campaigns.

While that may well be too much when the Government is looking to make £6 billion worth of cuts it's an absolute drop in the ocean and a complete irrelevance.

Do you really believe that cutting the spending on celebrity adverts will make any kind of difference that would let cuts to tax credits or child benefit be cancelled?

And how much would be spent on maintaining and enforcing the cap?

How much would have to be spent on advertising anyway?

Pointless.

Fruitysunshine Tue 08-Jun-10 09:47:22

Minthumbug - that is exactly what I am talking about. Two years ago we were a few days into our family camping holiday in France and DH was called back to work and was told to be onsite for 8am the next morning.

Trying to organise to get him to a ferry port, back to the UK and car hired on the other side was a nightmare but it is his job and we just had to suck it up. We stayed on our own - I just have to accept it as part of his job.

As he has his own company now he works for clients. He often is not able to accompany us on family functions, works on more paperwork when he comes home and regularly gets no more than 4-5hrs sleep in any 24hr period. That is not to mention the administration of running his own company that comes with it.

Bucharest Tue 08-Jun-10 09:54:22

Oh, a petition. That will have the Cleggathon trembling now, won't it?

Maybe the people whinging now ought to have thought a bit harder about this before putting their X in the boxes on 6th May.

You reap what you sow.

donnaw25 Tue 08-Jun-10 09:56:45

BadgersPaws, it was an example of the type of thing our money is being wasted on. I am not saying £325k is going to even touch the deficit, but I dare say there are many, many other examples of this time of expenditure and all these things add up.

Gaelicsheep, if the childcare element of WTC is not going to be affected then I apologise, I have got the wrong end of the stick. My heart is in the right place though and I am only looking at this from a mum of (soon to be) 2s point of view. I never intended to offend or pee anybody off in any way.

mamatomany Tue 08-Jun-10 10:15:00

It just makes me laugh, do people really think that Steven Gerrrard who pays around £40k a week in tax really sat there after the birth of his children and said to Alex now here's that child benefit form for you to fill out so we can claim our £25 a week ?

Alouiseg Tue 08-Jun-10 12:50:01

OP needs a few basics in economics. And the removal of some very large blinkers.

donnaw25 Tue 08-Jun-10 13:08:17

Do you know what? Forget I ever posted this message and I'll delete the petition too. Let's all sit back and let the Government shove us all into yet more financial turmoil. Some of you need to learn a few basics in how not to be rude.

abdnhiker Tue 08-Jun-10 13:09:13

donnaw25 so basically my husband's taxes pay for your tax credits so that you can go back to work - but I don't get any help (we're just over the threshold) and as a result (because my salary was less than the cost of childcare for two kids) I have to stay home. You say "it is nice to be able to still have my foot in the door of employment and at least try to pay my way in life". Keep in mind that this is not available for families like mine and your desire to take away my child benefit because of our family income when our taxes help you have opportunities I don't get really frustrates me.

And for what it's worth - yes my DH does well for us but he's often away, on no notice, we have very little job security (he's self employed). We are very nervous about me not working because if something happens to his job, I'm not going to be as employable.

But I'm not upset at paying tax in general nor do I think the country can afford to give us childcare tax credits (it can't and that's the way it is). We chose to have our kids and we have to take care of ourselves because we're lucky enough to be able to. If the government really does need to take away our CB then we'll manage that too.

It would be nice though if people didn't resent families like ours and at the same time feel entitled to things that we don't get. Many of us could do with a dose of being thankful for what we have.

Alouiseg Tue 08-Jun-10 13:11:41

Try net mums Donna, it'll probably go down a treat there.

BadgersPaws Tue 08-Jun-10 13:16:38

"Forget I ever posted this message and I'll delete the petition too. Let's all sit back and let the Government shove us all into yet more financial turmoil. Some of you need to learn a few basics in how not to be rude."

What did you expect?

The original petition proposed an idea, a salary cap, that was quite clearly impractical and ill conceived and then it was watered down to be little more than a complaint that child related benefits should not be taken away alongside an irrelevant pop at celebrity adverts.

If we are to stop the Government pushing us "all into yet more financial turmoil" then we need to start putting forward ideas that could work and being ruthless with those that while perhaps well intentioned just wouldn't work.

pleasechange Tue 08-Jun-10 13:16:59

good post abnhiker, it really annoys me as well

There is no clear link between gross income and disposable income - I know for a fact that I have significantly lower disposable income and many 'lower' income families than ours because of the childcare bills and the fact that I don't qualify for tax credits - why should I lose the child benefit as well angry

Chil1234 Tue 08-Jun-10 13:20:52

"Do you know what? Forget I ever posted this message and I'll delete the petition too. Let's all sit back and let the Government shove us all into yet more financial turmoil. Some of you need to learn a few basics in how not to be rude."

I think the first rule of posting on public websites is to have a thick skin. If you're asking people to support your position and sign up to a petition you have to explain yourself a lot more clearly and convincingly than you've done. Otherwise it's a case of 'ask a stupid question.....'

If you don't want financial turmoil then keep thinking up ways to improve the situation. Just do your homework a bit better next time.

hobbgoblin Tue 08-Jun-10 13:25:21

I've always wanted to be the guy on the radio that Aitch speaks of. That is the system I would like to see.

donnaw25 Tue 08-Jun-10 13:33:47

abdnhiker, complete wrong end of the stick. Where I have said I agree with child benefit being abolished is beyond me - this is something I was fighting to keep in place!

I have requested this thread is removed so you can all go back to discussing whatever it was you were discussing before all guns came ablazing in my direction. I'm done here.

grumpypants Tue 08-Jun-10 13:39:37

wait - is child benefit actually going?

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