Russell Brand, Jonathan Woss and Andrew Sachs

(1003 Posts)
JoolsToo Mon 27-Oct-08 15:26:53 -phone-calls-just-werent-funny.html

Have we not had a discussion about this? I'm surprised.

Seedy, sordid, unfunny little men pad obscene amounts of money to be obscene.

What's your view?

expatinscotland Mon 27-Oct-08 15:27:42

Everytime I see Ross I get angry at having to pay for a license to watch TV.

NomDePlume Mon 27-Oct-08 15:29:53

what actually was said ?

That article is a bit confusing !

AmIWhatAndWhy Mon 27-Oct-08 15:31:01

That wasn't the best article to link to really.

AmIWhatAndWhy Mon 27-Oct-08 15:32:10

And making fun of speech impediments in your thread title is far from funny either.

Tigerschick Mon 27-Oct-08 15:32:23

Here is the story as reported on BBC online.
Seriously un-funny. I don't like Jonathan Ross and I'm very quickly going off Russel Brand.

lilymolly Mon 27-Oct-08 15:32:32

wankers the pair of them

PenelopePitstops Mon 27-Oct-08 15:32:58

its on youtube if you search under their names

russell brand phoned him after he didn't show up for an interview. It strted off pretty harmlessly if a bit off, and then russle joked he had fucked his grandaughter shock

lilymolly Mon 27-Oct-08 15:33:57

dont think anyone was making fun of speech impediments by simply using the word "woss"

ahundredtimes Mon 27-Oct-08 15:38:05

I don't find Russell Brand funny, I don't really understand him, who he is, why he is, why anyone bought his booky wooky or anything, just why. I don't understand - he makes me feel old.

Ross I get, I mean he is talented at what he does.

Why they rang up and left messages on someone's answerphone about his grand daughter I don't understand either. It seems Bart Simpson-esque, am unclear about why grown up men might do this?

Was it funny? It doesn't sound funny.

[gets out knitting]

Also I read an article in the DM about this whilst at the barbers with ds's. And I nodded during the article. I'm having a bad week. Something is happening to me. Last night I found out I fancied Pierce Brosnan, this morning I agreed with an article in the DM.

I am having a mid-life crisis I think.

I was horrified at this story too. I have never found Russell Brand either funny or intelligent and cannot for the life of me see what he does that could possibly count as humour. However, even for him, this is a new low point!!

Sadly this is what I'd expect to pass for humour from Brand - but Jonathan Ross has really let himself down, imo. In the past, I've found him witty and intelligent. He should be utterly and totally ashamed of this incident.

FimboGotAxed Mon 27-Oct-08 15:44:49

Bet neither of them gets sacked though.

MoChan Mon 27-Oct-08 15:44:52

I loathe Russell Brand, and always have done, and I don't think it's because I'm old, I think it's because he's not funny. All he does is make stupid statements in a stupid voice. The fact that people think he's funny makes me feel worried for the future of the human race.

And this latest thing is a disgrace. It's a despicable thing to do, a real violation. Horrible. It would have been ever-so-slightly less awful if they'd just made a personal attack on Sachs, but this lewd stuff about the granddaughter is just appalling.

NomDePlume Mon 27-Oct-08 15:45:06

Russel Brand is repulsive

MoChan Mon 27-Oct-08 15:46:36

PS. I'm not old. Well, not that old. Early thirties, maybe...?

DippyDora Mon 27-Oct-08 15:47:18
ahundredtimes Mon 27-Oct-08 15:48:08

No, I think not finding him funny probably not a sign of being old. I hate his hair - tick, sign of being old.

I just think he's a twit.

No they won't get sacked, but it is such a stupid thing to do. I'm embarrassed for them.

HankyHunker Mon 27-Oct-08 15:49:36

I used to like Russell Brand. Gone off him lately now though.

AmIWhatAndWhy Mon 27-Oct-08 15:54:09

Russell Brand is actually very intelligent, but he relies too much on the 'shock factor' these days.

He has an addictive personality, it went from an addiction to fame, to booze, to drugs, to fame, to drugs and booze, to sex, now it's just fame.

Hence he attention seeks.

ahundredtimes Mon 27-Oct-08 15:55:56

Oh yes, perhaps he is intelligent. He's probably manic is he? He'll write a book in ten years about being manic I expect. I've just listened, he was showing off really wasn't he?

JulesJules Mon 27-Oct-08 15:57:09

Well thank God for that, I have been sternly telling myself all day that I am turning into an old fart... I was horrified when I heard this on the radio this morning, it made me imagine my Dad getting this message about one of my DDs. I was shouting "stupid farking wankers" at the radio. Sniggering away at themselves, being paid trillions from the license fees... Bahhhhh. Harrumph.

JulesJules Mon 27-Oct-08 15:59:26

And his HAIR. WTF. <old fart>

Bucharest Mon 27-Oct-08 15:59:42

I don't get RB either.
I can take or leave JR- depending on who he's talking to on his show really. It's the guests who make it or not.

DecayingDisaster Mon 27-Oct-08 16:00:56

am i the only one who thought that was amusing then? in a juvenile, teenage boy kind of amusing, same as i laugh at jackass?

I think you are in the minority, certainly. From a teenager it might have been less offensive, but Brand and Ross are grown men who should know better.

Ross has daughters of his own - how would he react if his daughters had been the butt of this joke?

needmorecoffee Mon 27-Oct-08 16:08:52

pair of them are talentless overpaid morons.

Nagapie Mon 27-Oct-08 16:12:21

Listening to LBC earlier today, it transpires that the show was pre-recorded - meaning that some BBC d*ck actually signed off this show and approved the transmission of this insulting load of tosh masquerading as humour .... he should be the 1st in the firing line...

mrsmaidamess Mon 27-Oct-08 16:13:12

I've just listened to the whole sorry/unfunny episode online and it is really pathetic. They are amusing each other but no one else. I like Johnathan Ross on his own show, I think he's funny and witty but something about being with Russell Brand here (who I also like ) makes them both sound like right prats. The only one to come out with any dignity is Andrew Sachs.

ahundredtimes Mon 27-Oct-08 16:13:21

Oh I think Ross is talented, he makes it look easy but I think he's talented.

Brand just seems witless to me.

I think the difference is, I don't find teenage boy humour very funny. It's usually cruel and a bit thoughtless. At least Bart Simpson thinks of funny names when he does prank calls.

rolledhedgehog Mon 27-Oct-08 16:13:31

I would have thought that once someone was Jonathan Ross's age and had daughters of they would see that this ceases to be funny enough to outweigh the nastiness. Could he not see as a parent how offensive this would to a grandad in his 70's.

Andrew Sachs comes over as being a dignified and well respected gentleman.

I fail to see how an obscene phone call can be interpreted as entertainment.
Imagine how you would feel if this was directed at your own daughter or grand daughter.

LouMacca Mon 27-Oct-08 16:16:39

agree totally with rolledhedgehog.

expect this pathetic behaviour off Russell Brand but am disappointed with Jonathan Ross as I do like him.

JoolsToo Mon 27-Oct-08 16:20:24

yes, not very good article. I was going to link to the DM one but I know what you all think of the DM so tried to keep your blood pressure down!

Jonathan Ross is often referred to as Wossy - can't see what you're getting your knickers in a twist about amwhatandwhy and I certainly don't see how it could be construed as 'making fun of speech imediments'

but I digress - I'm very heartened that the majority consensus is that it was a crass and nasty thing to do.

PenelopePitstops Mon 27-Oct-08 16:27:09

russell brand is not funny at all, everything he does is 'shocking' and not actually funny

i actually read his book, in my defence it was at my sisters and i was bored, it was ridiculous. It made me dislke him even more.

the phonecall was disgusting, they acted like two school children

ahundredtimes Mon 27-Oct-08 16:27:17

Russell - badly done, though we didn't expect much better from you, go brush your hair and work on your craft, being lippy isn't cutting it any longer.

Jonathan - we are disappointed in you, you have not only let yourself down but the whole school and we expected better and funnier.

[sucks teeth, looks disapproving, smells of cabbage]

Popzie Mon 27-Oct-08 16:49:15

Why is it that when you have standards and a proper sense of humour we all apologise for being old and prudish?

Those two should've grown out of this sort of thing by the time they'd left school. It's not us who are prissy - it's RB and JR who are crass and showing a complete lack of respect for someone who is probably a gentleman.

This is exactly why it's in the news today that society has totally lost its respect for old and young alike. How many bird brained listeners were thinking it was really funny - funnier still because it was JR and RB? As a result there'll be thousands of lemmings going to school and work taking the piss out of people about having sex with members of their family.

needmorecoffee Mon 27-Oct-08 17:04:26

with you there popzie. manners and good behaviour should be for everyone.

Popzie Mon 27-Oct-08 17:05:49

Thanks.. thought I'd killed the thread!

ramonaquimby Mon 27-Oct-08 17:13:14

can't stand Jonathan Ross - I've caught his show a few times (often has great guests) and I can see some of the cringing they do when the talk gets dirty and suggestive.

JuxBackFromTheDead Mon 27-Oct-08 17:13:48

They're obviously both having mid-life crises, which, as we all know, results in older men behaving like silly little boys. Give'em another 20 years and they'll be disco dancing at parties.grin

TotalChaos Mon 27-Oct-08 17:17:25

vile foul-mouthed gits.

You are absolutely right, Popzie.

filthymindedSixSixSixen Mon 27-Oct-08 17:34:52

100 - I'm turning into my mother. She used to describe people in the 80s as ''looking like a right clip''. (usually pop stars I was in love with grin

When I was reading your posts below about bRAND, the words ''A right clip'' popped unbidden into my head.. And I'm not 40 yet!

Would it be juvenile of me to call them dickheads?

Turniphead1 Mon 27-Oct-08 17:37:37

In terms of use of the word Wossy making fun of people with speech impediments - well, Mr Ross uses the term Wossy himself all the time. He is actually in RL incredibly kind and generous with his time. Have direct experience of it although don't know him well. But won't have a word said against him grin.

muminthecity Mon 27-Oct-08 17:48:19

I adore Russell Brand and always listen to his show, but this was clearly over the top and unfunny, though I don't think at the time there was any malicious intent. Russell phoned Andrew Sachs for an interview, which had already been arranged, when there was no answer, he started to leave a normal inoffensive message when Johnathan shouted "He fucked your grandaughter!" It then became some sort of ridiculous and childish competition of who could say the most contraversial, outlandish thing. It was obvious that they were both just thinking of their egos and neither had considered that their behaviour would impact negatively on a 70 odd year old man and his family. Very disappointing, but without excusing this awful behaviour, I must say I have met Russell a few times and he is truly lovely, kind and generous and very, very funny.

SunshineSmith Mon 27-Oct-08 18:11:21

I wish someone would call Jonathat Ross and said the same about his daughter! Sure he would be pleased to hear that on his answerphone!

God knows I am very relaxed about swearing, a bit of innuendo etc etc but this is just atrocious!

Tortington Mon 27-Oct-08 18:18:36

i like jonathon ross.

cocoleBOO Mon 27-Oct-08 18:22:08

JR's saturday show on Radio is great. Russell Brand is a bit meh.

southeastalien Mon 27-Oct-08 18:24:09

i like both of them, but it was a stoopid thing to do.

i think they probably bring out the worse in each other

Liffey Mon 27-Oct-08 18:24:21

That is outrageous. How dare he????? I hope both of them are fined and punished.

Jonathan Ross has two dds. i bet it wouldn't seem so funny if it was one of them who RB 'enjoyed' bent over a sofa.

He was forced to rescind the comments he made about Kimberley stewart as they weren't true. Can't believe this is all he's got up his sleeve. trashing people's names. I used to think he was funny. Now I think, one trick pony.

CarminaBanana Mon 27-Oct-08 18:28:22

the article doesn't really say anything.

sallystrawberry Mon 27-Oct-08 18:29:09

I was listening to radio 1 and Chris Moyles <twat> was interviewing Russel Brand and they were talking about Russels new hot tub, he also made reference to f**** Andrew Sachs grandaughter and said he "**** her brains out" (not using the f word obv but its what he meant).

I like a laugh but tbh he sickened me the way he talked about this woman sad

I felt sorry for her.

He's a complete twat imo - I used to think he was a bit of a laugh sometimes - but not now he disgusts me actually.

sallystrawberry Mon 27-Oct-08 18:32:05

like a schoolboy bragging about his conquests

JoolsToo Mon 27-Oct-08 18:33:40

the thing is they phoned to apologise but carried on leaving lewd messages so even after the first call they didn't think 'oh shit we shouldn't have done that'

Brand's apology on his programme included this "I would like to take this opportunity to issue a personal Russell Brand apology to Andrew Sachs, the great comic actor who played Manuel, for a message Jonathan and I left on his answerphone, but it was quite funny," the Radio 2 presenter told listeners.

Contrite? not a bit of it!

my view... who failed to check the BBC production guidelines? Pre-recorded apparently, so perhaps the blame sould be hurled at the producers!

expatinscotland Mon 27-Oct-08 18:37:21

it wasn't funny.

he should be sacked.

sallystrawberry Mon 27-Oct-08 18:37:31

the conversation with Chris Moyles was after the event and when RB was aware he had caused offence

JoolsToo Mon 27-Oct-08 18:38:06

has no one here ever laughed at peter cook and dudley moore?

TskullsScreaming Mon 27-Oct-08 18:44:17

JR is waay past his sell by date. He looks like the oldest swinger in town. Watching him sucking up to yoof and misbehaving alongside them to try and look young makes my skin crawl. He is an overpaid plonker.

Russell I have much more time for, but his appeal will also wane in time. He has tried so hard to do all the right things lately careerwise but he always treads such a thin line.

He's gone too far with this - inevitably he was going to with something at some point given his history of going ott. If he doesn't learn from it his career will go down as faster than it went up.

mabanana Mon 27-Oct-08 18:48:16

Did Peter Cook and Dudley Moore ring up 78 year old actors and leave messages on their answerphone saying they'd 'enjoyed your granddaughter over the couch'? I must have missed that one.
Stupid, cruel, misogynist, disrespectful, infantile.
Ross has a sad case of arrested development.

it wasn't funny - it was both of them acting over the top and driving each other like stupid teenage boys trying to show they're cool, and not thinking about any consequences to their actions.

Sadly the BBC is unlikely to take any action against them - at worst a slap on the wrist and so this behaviour will be shown as ok.

Andrew Sachs is the only person who comes off well in this and I'm glad he made a complaint as it must have been horrible listening to those two wankers comments.

sallystrawberry Mon 27-Oct-08 18:56:42

if Peter Cook and Dudley Moore ever did have sex with someones grandaughter, they didn't go on national radio and ring the grandad or describe on another radio show how they **** her brains out.

BloodshotEyeballsintheScarySky Mon 27-Oct-08 19:00:23

I have heard the debate but not the show but I've just read the transcript and I am shock. WTF were they thinking? Blokes pissed on a stag night would have more class and more sense. I can see why Sachs is furious. They picked on someone (a lot older) who by all accounts is a real gentleman, has a different sense of humour and is extremely dignified and not in the least bit attention seeking. Not that that should make any difference but it feels worse somehow.

What a pair of tossers. I'm not a particular fan of Ross, can take him or leave him. Much prefer his brother Paul actually. But that scruffy, crude, egotistical, talentless arsehole Brand has really proved what he's made of. And Ross has shown himself up to be no better, although, as has been said, he bloody well ought to be being a father of daughters.

They won't dare sack Ross (although they should), there's too much money invested in him but Brand (and Ross) should have his arse fired. Their apology was a complete piss take as well.

And I've never seen any sign of Brand being 'very intelligent'. You have to know how to use it for that to be true. Intelligence isn't just about IQ numbers.

eekamoose Mon 27-Oct-08 19:11:49

I cannot stand Jonathan Ross and have been on a thread on Mumsnet when we all harrumphed and tutted over his comment "Please tell me you fucked her" to Michael Aspel when MA was talking about a Miss World contestant. It was the second reference to fucking someone or other in the show.

Last night I heard an interviewer on a phone-in arguing (or maybe playing Devil's advocate?) that everyone loves Ross because so many people watch his show. Well, actually, I think millions of people watch his show because of the quality of his GUESTS, not Ross himself, who is embarrassing, desperate, twattish, etc etc.

Am very sorry to hear about Russell Brand's involvement cos I do love him - although his new addiction, to fame, is rather tedious.

wankermunker Mon 27-Oct-08 19:19:10

what aout this georgina? she must be feeling pretty humiliated

wintera Mon 27-Oct-08 19:34:18

His grandaughter is in a band called "The Satanic Sluts" so I would imagine she won't give a toss about what's being said.

Turniphead1 Mon 27-Oct-08 19:51:31

Here is a picture of Georgina. You can see that she is a shy retiring type and the Andrew is right to be worried about her good name sullied...

The Delicate Flower, Georgina

Actually, just being facetious. No matter that Georgina choses to parade around in underwear with a high synthetic content. Doesn't mean what they said was right - especially to her lovely 78 year old granddad.

gothicmama Mon 27-Oct-08 19:54:53

I agrree entirely with ekamouse who has said everything I wish to say

wankermunker Mon 27-Oct-08 19:58:12

dunno, they were so sniggering and disrespectful of her, totally objectifying her. that's pretty crushing, no matter your taste in underwear.

Upwind Mon 27-Oct-08 19:59:41

It was a really crap thing to do and they should get a lot more than a slap on the wrist...

policywonk Mon 27-Oct-08 20:01:29

Some BBC top nob (Will Wyatt perhaps?) was on PM today saying that the problem probably lay with their production staff being too in awe of them, or too closely identified with them, to make proper editorial judgements (which would obviously have resulted in this episode being binned before it made it to air).

I think maybe they ought to be sacked, or at least give back a laaarge proportion of their preposterous wages.

HankyHunker Mon 27-Oct-08 20:09:59

>small voice<

Chances are though is that he probably has slept with her? blush

Upwind Mon 27-Oct-08 20:11:33

HankyHunker - would that make it okay?

Actually, I agree they should be sacked, or have their wages reduced to a fraction of what they currently are.

HankyHunker Mon 27-Oct-08 20:12:28

ok I totally didn't get that he had slept with her. Read the transcript and he went waaaayyyyy too far. twat.

rolereversal Mon 27-Oct-08 20:20:48

usually find them both quite amusing blush but they went tooooo far this time, particularly Ross, somehow you would expect more from him I think?

wankermunker Mon 27-Oct-08 20:22:02

i think he deffo slept with her. all the more mortifying i'd have thought. am i a prude?

wintera Mon 27-Oct-08 20:23:12

I am thinking of getting some t-shirts printed up with Russell on the front and "He fucked your Grandaughter!!!" underneath. Think they might be a big seller. wink

Seriously though, why all the fuss now? The show was broadcast well over a week ago and I thought at the time "Oh there might be some trouble over this" as I thought they had gone too far. But last week there was nothing at all. Then yesterday all hell breaks loose. Weird. So up till yesterday there were only 67 complaints, today at midday it rose to 500 then this evening its 1500. That means most people complaining weren't even listening at the time and have only now complained because the story is in the papers. Its Daily Mail mentality all over again.

If you listened at the time or to the podcast and were offended then fair play to you, you have a point. But if its just a case of "Oh I'll complain about that cos its in the news" then feck off!

wankermunker Mon 27-Oct-08 20:24:45

not that i've complained... but why should i have listened to it at the time to be appalled? did you have the same attitude with ron atkinson?

Upwind Mon 27-Oct-08 20:25:45

wintera - I've not complained but I am angry that my licence fee is being used to pay for such truly offensive pap

people who have only just realised this are well within their rights to complain

wintera Mon 27-Oct-08 20:26:57

I'm not saying you can't be appalled after the event at all. I am saying some people are clearly just complaining for the sake of it because its now become a big story all of a sudden.

Sobernow Mon 27-Oct-08 20:28:43

So what if Russell Brand and Andrew Sach's grandaughter had sex with each other? It is their own private business and nothing to shout to us about or tell her grandfather about, especially in public.

I think they are both intelligent men who are quick witted and usually, but comedy comes from satirising someone who deserves it, or observing some universal truth. Not just bragging that you've shagged someone and humiliating them in front of their family.

So what if she's an exotic dancer, or whatever, why does that mean her grandfather has to be harrassed in his own home and publicly embarrassed?

I would love the BBC to make a point about their position as a publicly funded organisation by sacking either Brand or Ross. Sacking some studio monkey won't cut it, imo. One or both of them should be taught the meaning of grown up respect.

Upwind Mon 27-Oct-08 20:29:32

"some people are clearly just complaining for the sake of it because its now become a big story all of a sudden. "

How so?

Are people who pay the BBC licence fee not entitled to be disgusted by this garbage?

tiredemma Mon 27-Oct-08 20:29:51

I think that they are both a couple of knob-heads

wintera Mon 27-Oct-08 20:38:30

Dear Upwind, I just thought it was weird because the complaints figure keeps rising as the day goes on but that the show was broadcast a week last Sat. I find it odd that the shit suddenly hit the fan yesterday. It was obviously decided by someone that its now a big story.

Maybe its happened because Russell has a new book and tv show starting. Maybe its because Jonathan Ross has a book out. Maybe its because the Grandaughter from the Satanic Sluts is touring with her burlesque show.

edam Mon 27-Oct-08 20:41:12

Ross and Brand are pathetic. Rich powerful men using sexual insults against a much younger women - in what way is that funny, exactly?

policywonk Mon 27-Oct-08 20:44:55

I don't understand why it's not legitimate for people to complain a week later. We all pay for the BBC (well most of us do); we're entitled to have an opinion. I guess it wasn't a story originally because not many people, relatively speaking, listen to this show, and those who do are RB/JR fans in the main and think this sort of thing is funny (or are too craven to object when their heroes do something beyond the pale).

Now it's been brought to the attention of the wider public, the majority of whom think it's inexcusable, vulgar, bullying crap. And we're saying so. What's the problem with that?

wintera I would have thought it was pretty obvious - as the story gets more exposure, more people complain because they didn't know about it before

Your comment about the granddaughter not minding because her band is called the satanic sluts is pretty offensive. She's an erotic dancer or whatever - so that makes it fine to humiliate her very publicly like this?

mabanana Mon 27-Oct-08 20:48:14

I slept with a few dodgy blokes when I was 23 and wasn't living a particularly chaste life. If any of these sometimes pretty random blokes had got hold of my lovely, gentle, kind grandad's telephone number and, with a 40something mate had left horrible messages telling him they had 'had me over the sofa' and that 'he'd worn a condom', I would think he was a psychopath, frankly. I would have been utterly devastated and my grandfather would have been horrified, mortified and felt threatened. I am sure my and his reaction would have been totally normal. Why is it OK with some people because the nutters making abusive phone calls are famous.
People are complaining now because we now know about it. What they did hasn't changed or become less offensive because we didn't hear it live. Just as I was only horrified when my mum told me she was mugged, not when it happened, because I didn't know about it as it happened.

wintera Mon 27-Oct-08 20:59:29

I'm sure I'm not the only person on Mumsnet to have made a pretty sweeping generalisation when it comes to erotic dancers. But yes I take your point.

Upwind Mon 27-Oct-08 22:00:56

"Dear Upwind, I just thought it was weird because the complaints figure keeps rising as the day goes on but that the show was broadcast a week last Sat. I find it odd that the shit suddenly hit the fan yesterday. It was obviously decided by someone that its now a big story."

Maybe it is because as people hear about this peurile stund they react with anger and disgust. Maybe because it was Brand's childish non-apology adding "but it was quite funny"

It highlighted that as well as being nasty, the segment was not remotely funny. It was like listening to a pair of teenage bullies. Why should the BBC pay these contemptible wankers so much? No commercial organisation would match their offer. I would have no objection if it was not supposed to be public service broadcasting, using our licence fees.

edam Mon 27-Oct-08 22:09:10

I'd have an objection to what they did whether they were on ITV, 4, 5 or the blinking parliamentary channel.

And I think Ross and Brand should be stripped of a significant slice of their salaries which should be donated to Refuge.

Quattrocento Mon 27-Oct-08 22:16:12

I don't mind obscenity but it has to be funny, right?

So what was funny about this? It wasn't funny.

I have a great-aunt. I would personally Die A Thousand Deaths if she knew I'd had sex.

<Quattro is 41 and has two children>

LittleBellaLugosi Mon 27-Oct-08 22:16:18

I've always thought both of them are the Emperor's new clothes.

Dull, over-rated tossers.

Cheesesarnie Mon 27-Oct-08 22:17:52

i like russel brand.ive only read about it and seen on news.

Bride1 Mon 27-Oct-08 22:28:41

Jonathan Ross has never been to my taste. He's overpaid.

SunshineSmith Mon 27-Oct-08 22:30:47

I cannot stomach the ghastly Jonathan Ross... he is just appalling... I hope he gets sacked pronto!

wintera Mon 27-Oct-08 22:34:30

Hi Cheesesarnie - I don't think you can listen to it now as it won't be on listen again and the podcast might not be there either now but if you want to see what all the fuss is about then here is a link to the viddycast on youtube. The Andrew Sachs stuff is about 2 mins into it -

muminthecity Mon 27-Oct-08 22:41:56

Sorry for the DM link but you can hear the full phone call here, apart from the last part, where Russell Brand does genuinely apologise, that bit has been left out hmm


ipanemagirl Tue 28-Oct-08 00:33:21

I actually love Russell Brand's radio programme and have been listening to it pretty devotedly for about a year on the podcast.

I'm not defending the Sachs calls at all. There is no excuse for them, they should all be ashamed and take the consequences too. BUT for what it's worth, in the 'mind-set' of the programme, it's not that shocking! I heard it on the podcast last night and didn't really register how offensive it was partly because I'm so used to Brand being offensive! So I can see how the production team must become inured to his pushing all the limits of acceptable behaviour - because that's what he does ALL the time! Not making any excuse, just trying to see how it happened.

Ross has much less excuse, he has young daughters himself, he's paid too much, he's older and should be wiser. He actually started the really obscene Sachs stuff before Brand.
Mostly this is a failure to control the talent. And now maybe they will start to control them a bit.
But I still love Brand - I find him so funny and have read his book which makes sense of his whole persona.

dweezle Tue 28-Oct-08 07:37:10

Both overpaid and undertalented. I have always thought that the sign of a good comedian is the ability to make people laugh at the comedian's expense. Both of these lovely hmm chaps only ever make people laugh at the expense of others. I have only ever seen Jonathan Ross once - he was 'interviewing' Nicole Kidman and she was almost cringing with embarrassment at his lewd behaviour. Unfunny and unprofessional.

beeny Tue 28-Oct-08 07:49:47

I agree with you dweezle.I hope they get sacked

LostProphet Tue 28-Oct-08 07:57:36

I get the feeling they are just the wrong combination of people - like when you get two girls who play nicely together, and two girls who just hype each other up - they are the girls who hype each other up and wouldn't be allowed to sit together in class.

Poor Sachs though The thought of someone calling my granddad with that is horrible

Upwind Tue 28-Oct-08 08:03:24

On commercial radio it would still have been nasty and offensive - but at least I would not be sponsoring it. As it is I am really angry
Why does the BBC pay these arses (and Chris Moyles too) so much when they cut back on other areas? Couldn't they just show reruns of Beavis and Butthead instead? At least that way they would not be so demeaning and nasty to real people.

Ross earns six million a year. He is too old for these juvenile antics now, merely a dirty minded middle aged man. They could easily replace him with a talented twenty-something for £20-something k, and hire a couple of hundred researchers, producers etc. I am guessing Brand earns somewhere in the same region, imagine how much decent programming the BBC could make if they got rid of him too grin

priceyp Tue 28-Oct-08 08:36:18

Sachs granddaughter hmm
Ross and Brand are still waste of space twits though.

amidaiwish Tue 28-Oct-08 08:39:35

this didn't happen spontaneously on stage in Glastonbury, but on a BBC radio show, with a broad audience, taxpayer funded, pre-recorded

Ross/Brand should have realised later, or woken up the next morning and thought "uh oh" and had it pulled, or at the very least the producers should have edited it out

but oh no, they think it is funny, fine and perfectly acceptable to broadcast.

that's what worries me.
despicable and outrageous.

priceyp Tue 28-Oct-08 08:42:52

It's another example of the BBC deciding what's good for it's listeners and viewers and not taking into account what they actually want. The BBC is more of an old boys network today (with different old boys) than ever. IMO

LostProphet Tue 28-Oct-08 08:48:29

I don't give a sh*t what the granddaughter does tbh. An old man was personally distressed by some thoughtless wankers.

Upwind Tue 28-Oct-08 08:48:38

To me it shows how little respect the BBC has for its audience.

LostProphet Tue 28-Oct-08 08:48:57

(As in the people saying about what she does/wears etc... not how she feels after it)

priceyp Tue 28-Oct-08 08:53:17

Fair enough, and I agree that he would be distressed, their comments were disgusting and totally uncalled for. But the granddaughter obviously knows Brand and moves in the same social circles as him.

LostProphet Tue 28-Oct-08 08:54:20

What difference does it make though? It is like when news papers talk about murdered prostitutes instead of murdered women as if it makes a difference to the life lost

Upwind Tue 28-Oct-08 08:59:06

I keep coming back to this thread partly because I am so hmm at the implicit suggestions that the granddaughter was somehow asking for it, that her lifestyle is somehow relevant to her and her grandfather's humiliation on a public broadcast.

Does you apply that reasoning to other kinds of abusive behaviour? Is physical aggression okay, if the woman victimised is a nag? Or is sexual harassment okay if she wears a tight fitting top? Where do you draw the line?

priceyp Tue 28-Oct-08 09:00:17

I kind of thought that argument might come into it. Maybe prostitutes are more likely to be murdered than ordinary women, because they live/work in a very high risk situation. Doesn't make it any less shocking, but the stats sadly go against them.
Perhaps because she is a public figure (and a particular type of performer, also aiming to shock) that she has come to Brands attention, she's not a sunday school teacher. She's in the public eye, so it he. Aren't they all targets?

The real issue is what the BBC will do to boost ratings. (ducks)

priceyp Tue 28-Oct-08 09:01:39

Didn't mean to imply that prostitutes aren't ordinary women there iykwim.

time4tea Tue 28-Oct-08 09:03:16

I agree with upwind. this kind of "joke" implies strongly

* women having consensual sex is something to be ashamed of - for the woman not the man

* for a man to have sex with a woman is somehow "getting one over on her" somehow showing her disrespect and doing her down

... the kinds of attitudes that have made life difficult for me in enjoying my sexuality - probably for all of us...

of course it is right to apologise to Andrew Sachs, but what about Georgina Bailey? her privacy has been invaded and she has been mocked in public.

time4tea Tue 28-Oct-08 09:04:45

I'd actually love it if she said "Yes, I had sex with Russell Brand, and it was rubbish, plus he's an ignorant oaf... "

priceyp Tue 28-Oct-08 09:06:38

Time4tea, I agree but only for these type of seedy little men. Most men don't think like they do. These attitutes shouldn't be condoned by the BBC on a mainstream radio station. Makes me glad I don't listen or watch the BBC.

priceyp Tue 28-Oct-08 09:08:27

X post there. I hope she does, but that kind of thing just pumps bullies up even more. I expect (and don't forget she's only 23) she's feeling awful about her grandfather now.

Upwind Tue 28-Oct-08 09:11:27

Andrew Sachs has been interviewed and said that the apology should be directed to Georgina and that he is not half as angry as she is.

When I was 23 I did (and wore!) lots of things I would not do now. Horrible that she has been thrown into the spotlight like this, when so very young.

PuzzleRocks Tue 28-Oct-08 09:14:01

Ooh, I know her. My ex told me she was after him but he wasn't interested after she admitted she had slept with Brand.

That said I think Ross and Brand are absolute arses and their lack of respect for an elderly gentleman is disgraceful. I agree Georgina deserves an apology too but from what I know of her I suspect she is just glad of the attention.

wintera Tue 28-Oct-08 09:20:26

Someone on another forum (so I don't know how true it is!) stated that the Satanic Sluts are now using "As heard on The Russell Brand show" on their various web pages and media sources. So it seems there is no such thing as bad publicity these days.

ssummers Tue 28-Oct-08 09:21:21

I LOVE Russell Brand. Of all of the comedians he is actually one of the less offensive - usually his jokes are aimed at himself. I think that this is a howard stern style of radio - and got out of hand. By next week the whole thing would have blown over - the BBC hopefully will study its content better.

LostProphet Tue 28-Oct-08 09:51:21

One of the links says that he has spoken about them as a performance group before

ScottishMummy Tue 28-Oct-08 09:58:41

dont get the whole RB phenomen dont think he is funny at all.JR has his moments (this wasnt one)

think RB is a bitty too obsessed by his own willy and his alleged powers

i think he looks like he needs a bath and comb his hair,it is ecosystem on his head

PuzzleRocks Tue 28-Oct-08 10:00:34

ScottishMummy, I think you'll find he calls it his winky. So appealing in a grown man. hmm

wintera Tue 28-Oct-08 10:02:37

LostProphet - Yes you are quite right. The whole incident actually started the week before when David Baddiel was co-hosting the show with Russell. Baddiel told an anecdote about how he had gone round to Russell's house one day to work on a writing project together and when he arrived members of The Satanic Sluts were there.

He then went on to say how various members of the group kept interupting them to ask when they would be finished writing as they wanted Russell to come and join them.

The way that David Baddiel told it was that he was amazed by Russell's lifestyle etc.. and couldn't believe his house was full of these girls. Then Baddiel went on to mention that one of the troupe was Andrew Sach's grandaughter. That was all that was said I think. I don't remember it being said out loud that Russell had slept with her . . . more like that he had enjoyed himself with all of them.

ScottishMummy Tue 28-Oct-08 10:04:23

eugh didnt know he had given his appendage a name.whatever next a bus to roam

nope RB just isnt that funny,the occasional quip yes,laugh out loud mirth no

smacks of trying too hard boys

BBBeeast Tue 28-Oct-08 10:07:52

he is funny though

exasperatedmummy Tue 28-Oct-08 10:18:56

i haven't read all of this but im really disappointed. I was only watching RB the other night, and i think JR is great too, but yes, this was completely out of order - what a pair of wankers. A horrible thing to do angry. The irony being is that after watching RB stand up the other night i turned to my DP and said, "at least he isn't deliberately offensive like that awful Jimmy Carr characater"

I really dislike jimmy Carr.

OH come on!

How many of you heard it as it was being broadcast? Come on - be honest?

And how many of you are offended because you were directed to it by someonelse after the fact?

Yes Sacks deserves an apology and possibly has a right to be offended but all these people going on about being offended themselves need to get a life - seriously!

JoolsToo Tue 28-Oct-08 10:42:19

I don't see what Andrew Sach's grand-daughter does or what she looks like has to do with a malicious phone call to her grandfather

OH - and Sacks being an 'elderly gentleman' has nothing to do with the offence cause. Surely if he was 30 or if he was 99 the offence would be the same. Jesus. Some people really do get led by the nose by the tabloids don't they. hmm

"By time4tea on Tue 28-Oct-08 09:03:16

I agree with upwind. this kind of "joke" implies strongly

* women having consensual sex is something to be ashamed of - for the woman not the man

* for a man to have sex with a woman is somehow "getting one over on her" somehow showing her disrespect and doing her down"

Agree with time4tea. That's what bothers me about this. Sexual attitudes that belong somewhere in another century. And it doesn't actually matter whether the granddaughter is upset or loving the publicity. It's the sexism and misogyny embedded in the "joke" that's the offensive bit.

beanie it's not relevant whether people heard it when broadcast or got offended when they read about it afterwards

I was not around during the Third Reich but I find the holocaust pretty offensive

mabanana Tue 28-Oct-08 10:54:09

So when you were 23, if someone you had unwisely shagged once got your father's/grandfather's/mother's/grandmother's phone number and got together with a dodgy mate old enough to be your father and shouted messages on their answerphone shouting 'he fucked your granddaughter/daughter!' and 'He had her over the couch' etc etc, you'd think that was normal, Ok, amusing behaviour and nobody would be upset? Come off it.
Oh, and if they then put that phone call on You Tube or whatever, that would also have been hilarious?

mabanana Tue 28-Oct-08 10:54:09

So when you were 23, if someone you had unwisely shagged once got your father's/grandfather's/mother's/grandmother's phone number and got together with a dodgy mate old enough to be your father and shouted messages on their answerphone shouting 'he fucked your granddaughter/daughter!' and 'He had her over the couch' etc etc, you'd think that was normal, Ok, amusing behaviour and nobody would be upset? Come off it.
Oh, and if they then put that phone call on You Tube or whatever, that would also have been hilarious?

PuzzleRocks Tue 28-Oct-08 10:55:04

No beanie, it's not the same. If someone was rude to my 27yr old brother I would be far less annoyed than if they were rude to my 82 year old grandmother.
I never said I was offended, I just think taking the piss out of an old man is not on.

LooptheLoop Tue 28-Oct-08 11:07:25

I find their behaviour disgusting and pathetic.

Have just sent feedback to the pair direct.

Links if you want to do the same are: and/

If they think there is no such thing as bad publicity, hope it backfires.

wintera Tue 28-Oct-08 11:14:53

I don't think anyone on here really suggested that the girl brought it on herself, was asking for it to be broadcast etc... I think what was inferred was that due to the fact that she is in a dance troupe called The Satanic Sluts etc.. that she herself must have a pretty thick skin and can clearly take anything that comes her way. To compare her to a rape victim as some of you have done is actually offensive to rape victims.

I genuinely feel for her Grandfather, I feel it is absolutely right that he gets a full apology from all the people concerned. I also agree that maybe those involved should be fined. I do NOT agree that anyone should be sacked however. I personally am more offended that my bbc money gets spent on crap like hole in the wall and some of the other durge thats on tv rather than by anything either RB or JR have done.

I would also like to draw Mumsnetters attention to a discussion that took place on the Telly addicts page the other week, where on a quite a few occasions, and by many forumers, lap dancers and strippers were called Prostitutes etc.. and were basically vilified and yet nobody batted a bloody eyelid.

twofalls Tue 28-Oct-08 11:15:16

Overpaid, egotistical talentless tossers the pair of them.

LIZS Tue 28-Oct-08 11:16:02

It is juvenile in the extreme, exploitative and pathetic. Really don't see what there is to find amusing or entertaining but perhaps I just don't "get" RB's sense of "humour" or whatever it may be called , nor why he is so highly regarded. Serious misjudgement on the part of all concerned.

It is perfectly reasonable to have an opinion on something based on reporting after the event. If this were not the case, we would not be able to have opinions on any news events except those we had seen reported live on News24 or similar.

Did you know - in the immediate aftermath of the broadcast there were only 2 complaints!

then on the 26th 10 (I think a full week after the broadcast) they suddenly had 70 complaints! How strange. So people actually listening to the programme weren't really that offended - were they!

Sorry beanie but you are being obtuse

More people know about it now, obviously. It's been widely reported. If all those people had been listening at the time they would have found it pathetic then too.

Notquitegrownup Tue 28-Oct-08 11:20:23

Haven't read many posts, but have just heard the 11 o'clock news. There is now to be a serious BBC investigation, and there is a motion tabled in parliament, to discuss whether the tax payer should be funding them, at all!! Heads will have to roll. (I predict Russell Brand will have to be sacked now. JR may get away with a serious warning since it was not on his show, and he seems to be something of a darling of the BBC - can't see the appeal myself.)

LIZS Tue 28-Oct-08 11:20:55

was it on the iplayer/podcast though ? Maybe they have a niche of "fans" who wouldn't complain but they are funded by taxpayers and this is an issue of basic common decency and respect.

"I was not around during the Third Reich but I find the holocaust pretty offensive"



Not that I'm defending Brand but if he's the fall guy and Ross gets away with it - that's tje wrong decision. Ross bloody started it.

I want to know how on earth it was cleared for broadcast - whoever made that decision should go too.



wintera Tue 28-Oct-08 11:24:31

Lizs - Yes it was on the show (which was pre-recorded) and also on the podcast too.

I don't see why Russell Brand should get in more trouble than Jonathan Ross as it was actually JR that shouted the "He effed your Grandaughter!!!" line. Russell seemed just as surprised as everyone else.

Upwind Tue 28-Oct-08 11:24:41

Wintera - I've read the whole thread and nobody has compared her to a rape victim - you just made that up to create a straw man. The closest anyone came was me

"Does you apply that reasoning to other kinds of abusive behaviour? Is physical aggression okay, if the woman victimised is a nag? Or is sexual harassment okay if she wears a tight fitting top? Where do you draw the line?"

When people insist that relatively few people complained immediately - how do you think a complaint about a radio programme gets through? People generally listen to their radios while driving or working. They relatively rarely have instant access to a means of making a complaint! Emails and letters will be written when they have a chance.

Oh well done beanie

<Big tick and smiley face goes to beanie>

Glad you got a laugh anyway

chipmonkey Tue 28-Oct-08 11:27:58

It's lack of respect for your elders, plain and simple. My Dad's dead now but I remember him being terribly upset when a male "friend" of my sister wrote suggestive remarks about her in a school journal she had in her teens. And she hadn't even done anything with the guy!
And whatever the poor girl looks like or whether she had such a lapse in common sense and taste to sleep with Russell Brand, he is not being a gentleman to brag about it. If any of my sons ever do that they will be grounded, 33 or not!

wintera Tue 28-Oct-08 11:33:57

I was referring to a line somebody said about people saying she was asking for it etc..

Agree that nobody directly compared her to a rape victim though.

mabanana Tue 28-Oct-08 11:40:21

beany, no I should imagine the few people who choose to listen to that couple of idiotic oafs on Radio 2 in the middle of the night are few and unlikely to complain, as no doubt you have to be pretty much into this kind of slow-witted humour to enjoy it. It is even more stupid, however, to say you can only have an opinion on something if you happened to witness it. As I said earlier, I was very upset when my mother was mugged in the street. I was not upset at the time it happened, as I didn't know about it then, but only when told about it later. Is that clear enough for you Beany?

clam Tue 28-Oct-08 11:41:04

Umm... I know it's been widely reported on ITN and Sky, and in the papers. But watched BBC Breakfast this morning and not one word about it! Did I miss it?

mabanana Tue 28-Oct-08 11:44:46

It's been reported on Radio 4 news quite a lot. There isn't a BBC blackout or anything.

TwoIfByScream Tue 28-Oct-08 11:45:38

I have often wondered how Jonathan Ross was valued so much by the BBC. Would it really be a problem if his Friday night show was axed.

Think of where the money that is wasted on his wages could go. BBC needs to work on making programmes rather than throwing money at boorish oafs in the hope they are seen as popular.

As for Brand, he is sometimes really funny, int he End of The Year show at least. But articulate slagging is still slagging. What do you expect from him though?

Upwind Tue 28-Oct-08 11:48:20

Ross' Friday night show has viewers because of the guests

there are plenty of talented people in the industry who would take it over for a fraction of his six-million salary

"They relatively rarely have instant access to a means of making a complaint! Emails and letters will be written when they have a chance." I bet you the 70 complaints flooded in after the publicity though!

Brand as a rule doesn't get that many complaints. Though there was one the week before which said

"Some of the jokes on the programme were terribly offensive. Making a crucifix out
of a penis and making jokes about sucking people off under a fig leaf is really just
taking things too far. This show was incredibly smutty and I couldn't believe I was hearing it from the BBC."


"I found Russell Brand's jokes about Jesus Christ having an erect penis very

"As I said earlier, I was very upset when my mother was mugged in the street. I was not upset at the time it happened, as I didn't know about it then, but only when told about it later. Is that clear enough for you Beany? "

very different scenario.

Sorry - but most of these complaints have been made by people who

a. want to knock the licence fee
b. Dislike Russell Brand already
b. Ditto j Ross

They are jumping ona bandwaggon.

Blu Tue 28-Oct-08 12:00:35

I'm not 'offended', but I don't have to be offended to have a view on the quality of broadcasting. I am not 'offended' by Brand making non-stop facile reference to his mic being a prick all the way through BBLB etc etc, I just think it is rock-bottom standard output. Ditto this sub-teenage boy stunt - which is terrible behaviour to Sachs. If i was Sachs I would be very angry.

They should be sacked and the BBC should have more sense and stop trying to compete with banal YouTube mock-shocking drivel to attract an audience of juvenile sniggerers.

And - if you were really as angry as some of the people sound (on 26th/27th Oct) then why wait 7+ days to express the anger. As it is there really are very few complaints.

Blu Tue 28-Oct-08 12:05:54

beannie - i'm not sure what your argument is about.

People are entitled to a view on an event that happened, most threads on Mn are about events that the discussion particpants were not present for! Most people on this thread have not complained to the BBC, but are discussing their views on Brand, Russell, the event, and the BBC's editorial policies. They are valid opinions!

PuzzleRocks Tue 28-Oct-08 12:08:24

Beanie - I have to ask. Apologies if i'm way off. Do you know either presenter?

skidoodle Tue 28-Oct-08 12:15:10

<insert everything mabanana has said above>

beanie there are many, many complaints. It doesn't matter when they were made, it is utterly irrelevant.

The BBC as a Corporation is more than aware of the many, many ways content can be "consumed" after an initial broadcast.

For someone who seems so excessively proud of their (poorly understood) knowledge of a very old internet meme you seem peculiarly luddite when it comes to this issue.

This is how the media works now - some things sink without a trace and others get enormously amplified through other media and become talking points. That piece of (pre-recorded) radio was made and published in that context. Brand, Ross, and the producers should have taken it into consideration. It's part of their job to do so.

I'm sorry beany, but you are being utterly ridiculous by insisting that only people who heard the show live have a right to comment. It is NOT necessary to witness an event in order to have an opinion on it - especially when it has been as widely reported as this event has been.

Please respect others' right to hold an opinion.

crumpet Tue 28-Oct-08 12:27:12

Not everyone beany. I used to work at the BBC and it is a fabulous organisation. What it does with the licence fee is very impressive. That it not to say I am an an unreserved BBC apologist - of course it makes mistakes.

Have never seen Russell Brand in action so do not know whether I think he is funny or not - I suspect not by what I have seen so far but don't really have an opinion.

JR doesn't float my boat, but it would be going too far to say I dislike him - bit of a prat maybe.

What they did and what their producers allowed was wrong in this case. Andrew Sachs did not deserve that offensive attack whether it was made public or not. The fact that is became public added insult to injury.

turquoise Tue 28-Oct-08 12:38:46

Beanie your argument is absurd.

I hope they are punished for the sheer nastiness of what they did. Entertainment now is more and more about humiliation and degradation, whether it's Borat making a fool of some unsuspecting person, 'slebs' being forced to eat maggots, or people with learning difficulties being set up on X Factor. There's nothing funny about it IMO, and I don't see why that opinion is less relevant merely because I didn't listen to this particular programme at the time it was broadcast.

Upwind Tue 28-Oct-08 12:52:28

It seems that ofcom and the BBC trust are now investigating this:

'The segment was pre-recorded but cleared for broadcast by executives at the station, despite Mr Sachs asking for it not to be aired. The BBC's management belatedly issued an apology, admitting that the calls were "unacceptable and offensive", and promised an internal review....

Ross has written a personal letter of apology to Mr Sachs, as have the BBC management, but Brand has not been in contact.

Speaking outside his north London home this morning, Mr Sachs said: "They apologise to me and they say 'how awful for Mr Sachs', but nobody has offered any apology to my granddaughter. I replied to Jonathan Ross and suggested that is where he should direct his attentions."...

Both Ross and Brand are due to host their respective Radio 2 shows this Saturday. A BBC spokeswoman said the shows would go ahead as scheduled and there were no plans to suspend either presenter.'

skidoodle Tue 28-Oct-08 12:56:38

There was time for Andrew Sachs to have heard and complained about the messages and they still broadcast them, despite the fact that he had asked them not to?

How utterly bizarre. Whatever about the presenters, the producer or editor who made that decision is going to have some pretty serious questions to answer I would have thought.

BBBeeast Tue 28-Oct-08 13:07:05

i think beanie's point is that the audience for the show were not as offended as those who listened to it because of the hypw and then complain - IYSWIM

If you listen to it Ross is the one who brings up the granddaughter - misjudging IMO as he is on saucy russell's show and wanted to 'keep up'. In some ways I think Russell behaves okay - he is not openly offence (again IMO) it just gets out of hand.

It is kind of in the vein of the show I think.

I do not think either of them merit being sacked.

RantinEminor Tue 28-Oct-08 13:10:21

They won't sack the "talent". They'll sack the dingul's who signed off the recording. What amazes me is that this type of drivel actually appeals to anybody. 9 minutes of rambling nonsense, who the fuck actually listens to it.

"beannie - i'm not sure what your argument is about."

My 'argument' is that :

People are now complaining because they have been alerted to the show, Which was broadcast on the 18th Oct and only had roughly 3 complaints in the immediate aftermath, by the tabloids and other papers who have an agenda against the BBC because they disllike the government enforced television Licence fee.

I don't think most of these complaints should really be taken seriously.

I think they should apologise to Andrew Sachs and his grand daughter - I believe they have. I think both Andrew Sachs and His grand daughter, being in the industry they are in, should accept this apology and should make a statement in which they aknowledge that these comments were part of an as live broadcast which should have been subject to the editorial guidelines the BBC have but that they understand some people have a sense of humour which occassionally crosses other people's lines - but despite this that they do not think either presenter should be sacked.

I think they should all be honest instead of letting the 'moral crusaders' call the shots.

I think anyone who didn't hear the show and only went to listen to it because they had been told it was offensive shouldn't be complaining about something they didn't have to listen to if they didn't want to!

This whole thing is ridicuous.

I also think bringing the holocause or mugged mothers into this is pointless and completely off topic.

mabanana Tue 28-Oct-08 13:13:30

I was upset when I heard my little boy had been picked on in the playground. I wasn't upset when he actually was being picked on, because I wasn't there. Does this mean I can't have an opinion on bullying and bad behaviour?

People are prefectly entitled to have an opinion about two middleaged men bullying a very nice elderly gentleman in his own home, making misogynist sexual comments about his granddaughter, and broadcasting the lot to the nation despite being asked by the victim not to. I really don't think that is so difficult to understand. I think anyone who cannot see how horrible this behaviour was, has a severe empathy deficit.
Would you think it was funny if your own husband, say, got together with a mate to ring up an elderly neighbour and shout 'he fucked your granddaughter' down the phone at him? Or would you be appalled and horrified?

childrenofthecornsilk Tue 28-Oct-08 13:15:03

Perhaps Andrew Sachs could do JR's show instead.

mabanana Tue 28-Oct-08 13:15:29

WTF should Andrew Sachs do anything to save the career of these two? He owes them nothing!
The argument that you have no right to an opinion on something unless you were actually there at the time is ridiculous.
What is your agenda Beany?

mabanana Tue 28-Oct-08 13:16:42

And it wasn't live. It was pre-recorded, which is how Sachs was able to request that it wasn't broadcast.

Everything has a context, Mabanana. The Show had a context, not least one which had started a week before when David baddeil was on and which as far as I can see did not get any complaints. If my OH shouted down the phone, 'he fucked your granddaughter' completely out of context then I would be bermused. This had a context.

I am amused by anyone who thinks that the presentes should be sacked. Particularly by the Guy on the BBC log who thinks they should not only be sacked but also lose pay!

If you read the logs you can truly see how ridiculous a lot of the people complaining are.

BBBeeast Tue 28-Oct-08 13:19:54

sachs was supposed to be appearing on the show but then wasn't in when they called.

Bride1 Tue 28-Oct-08 13:20:24

'Perhaps Andrew Sachs could do JR's show instead.'


"What is your agenda Beanie"

the opposite of those with an anti-brand, anti-ross, and anti-licence fee. smile

Comedy is comedy - sometimes it goes to far. In this case it went a bit too far and deserves and apology. A sacking or a double sacking would be a ridiculous response. At the very most there should be something done with the production team who ignored Sach's request that it be pulled. That is all.

BBBeeast Tue 28-Oct-08 13:21:48

the show is always riding close to the wind anyway.

only time i ever clean my kitchen - i must have a thing for 'idiotic morons'. they are very funny.

turquoise Tue 28-Oct-08 13:22:07

Even in context, then, was it funny?

Was it not hurtful to an elderly man who had in no way invited it?

Was it not mysogynistic and vile?

Was it right to ignore the fact that Andrew Sachs had asked the BBC not to broadcast it?

mabanana Tue 28-Oct-08 13:22:53

There was no 'context' for Andrew Sachs, was there? Just two middle aged celebs shouting 'he fucked your granddaughter' on his answerphone. Lovely. Just lovely.
I love the idea that this is young, cutting edge humour. Jonathan Ross is older than I am, and I'm not young. It's infantile and offensive.

Blu Tue 28-Oct-08 13:23:21

The BBC still has a very strong place in the identity of the country - it represnts us aboad, we rely on it ofr the most accurat reporting we can apparanly get, we all pay towards the licence fee, it was not known as 'auntie' fo nothing.

I think the BBC betrays the trust people have in it if it sanctions bullying behaviour and misogynistic comments as 'entertainment'.

I think there IS a point about bandwagons and people who tune in to get offended and complain, but that in this case what Brand and Ross did stands alone as an assault on Sachs and his gd. As far as I can see, people on this thread have had a view on what they did - from the personal (poor man) to the political (what does it say when men use sex with a woman as a threat or vehicle of ridicule or status?).

They get paid to perform in public - they did something very unprofessional, unkind and sexist - they get well paid to be accountable to the public who pay them. (that goes for the people who decided to proceed with the broadcast, too)

SunshineSmith Tue 28-Oct-08 13:23:42

In my point of view, it is the sheer arrogance that both individuals show. They are the "BBC golden boys" and because everyone at BBC stroke their egos constantly they think that they can get away with anything.

This is a very sexist, irresponsable and illegal thing they've done.

If I rob a bank and then apologise it won't stop me being judjed by it, right?

Why are not Brand and Ross then being charged?

I think that sometimes an apology is not enough. It is right but not enough. There you go! Ah, and I have complained to the BBC about it. My second complain ever in my life! !

SunshineSmith Tue 28-Oct-08 13:23:54

In my point of view, it is the sheer arrogance that both individuals show. They are the "BBC golden boys" and because everyone at BBC stroke their egos constantly they think that they can get away with anything.

This is a very sexist, irresponsable and illegal thing they've done.

If I rob a bank and then apologise it won't stop me being judjed by it, right?

Why are not Brand and Ross then being charged?

I think that sometimes an apology is not enough. It is right but not enough. There you go! Ah, and I have complained to the BBC about it. My second complain ever in my life! !

Upwind Tue 28-Oct-08 13:24:28

I am looking forward to seeing how "have I got news for you" and "mock the week" cover this story grin any of the regulars on those shows would be more talented than Ross or Brand.

him being elderly IMO makes the offence caused no more or less offensive. Why bring his age into it?

It was wrong to ignore the fact that he had asked for it not to be broadcast. See my post above.

Blu Tue 28-Oct-08 13:25:27

beanni - oh, are your coments more about those on the BBC site than on Mn, then?

BBBeeast Tue 28-Oct-08 13:26:20

what would they be charged with?

mabanana Tue 28-Oct-08 13:28:33

Do you know any old people Beany? IME many people over 70 do feel more vulnerable. And that is why most people feel quite protective about elderly relatives. Maybe you don't. Maybe you think anyone is fair game.

I don't have a problem with the licence fee. I've watched Jonathon Ross - mainly on 'They Think It's All Over' - and found him witty and amusing. He also gave the impression to me of being a good father and a caring man - which is why I am so aghast at this incident.

However, with regard to Russell Brand, I have never seen or heard him do or say anything that I have found even remotely amusing - so on that we are going to have to agree to differ, beanie.

I agree that the production team and whoever else approved this segment for broadcast have got a whole lot to answer for. Perhaps Ross and Brand went too far in the heat of the moment, but the producers have no such excuse. I'm not sure how much time they had between recording and broadcast, but imo they should have stopped the item.

Beanie - I would also like to apologise to you for my last post on this thread - I too got a bit carried away in the heat of the moment, and now regret being so blunt.

turquoise Tue 28-Oct-08 13:29:18

I think it's entirely possibly that someone of an older generation may find such puerile 'humour' even more offensive and inexplicable (particularly when applied to their grandchild) than a younger person, who may be more inured to it.

childrenofthecornsilk Tue 28-Oct-08 13:29:37

Beanie- I think the fact that he is elderly is an important point. I don't think that either of them would have been brave enough to shout crude insults down the phone to a younger man. That is why the bullying and abuse they committed when they made that call is so offensive to so many people.

Upwind Tue 28-Oct-08 13:30:37

BBBeeast - they could be charged with harassment or under the telecommunications act. Actually, given the anger about this in real life, I would be very surprised if somebody had not reported them to the police. I guess it would be up to them as to whether it is worth following up.

Bride1 Tue 28-Oct-08 13:31:17

I think older people do find that kind of humour more threatening.

mabanana Tue 28-Oct-08 13:32:09

Exactly Turquoise.
They knew it would be hurtful to him even as they were doing it - you can tell that from the transcript. All the giggly faux apologies.
I think Sachs has been very cool and dignified about the whole thing.
I agree with every word Blu has posted about the importance of the BBC and why this sort of thing reduces that importance, and demeans the corporation.

mabanana Tue 28-Oct-08 13:33:44

I think Sachs age was very important to the 'joke' in their minds. They thought it would be fun to shock and upset an 'old codger'.

MurderousMarla Tue 28-Oct-08 13:33:46

RB is not middle-aged hmm

People are entitled to be offended about whatever they like, whenever they like (though good call, beaniescreamyb, on the Godwin's Law!)

Personally I don't think it was that bad, and why RB is taking the fall when JR started the entire thing is beyond me. You don't have to like RB to see that. You can hate him all you like but the transcript is pretty clear.

mabanana Tue 28-Oct-08 13:34:45

He's getting too elderly for his hair, though.

Upwind Tue 28-Oct-08 13:34:59

It wasn't even humorous.

Brand and Ross are at the peak of their success. I bet that last week, hardly any of us knew who Georgina Baillie or Andrew Sachs were. Two relatively powerful men chose to publicly insult and demean a very much younger woman and her elderly grandfather. The ages do matter, as does the disparity in power, because it is classic bullying.

wheresthehamster Tue 28-Oct-08 13:35:33

So was Andrew Sachs due to be on the programme with them? Poor man. He had a lucky escape.

littlelapin Tue 28-Oct-08 13:37:08

Fuckwits the pair of them. Wouldn't bother me in the slightest if they were both sacked.

"How could the BBC stoop so low? It is an offence to make these kinds of
calls. These two men should get the sack, be taken to court and then sent to

Upwind Tue 28-Oct-08 13:37:42

It was Brand's show so he is being held more responsible - he has also failed to issue an apology to either Sachs or Bailie. And has since insisted that "it was quite funny".

dittany Tue 28-Oct-08 13:38:46

What a pair of arseholes.

Part of the reason they are so obnoxious is obviously because they realise they are talent-free zones.

Maybe they could fine Ross some of his humungous salary.

MoChan Tue 28-Oct-08 13:39:28

It's ridiculous to suggest that people shouldn't have an opinion on this just because they weren't listening, and to label people who do 'moral crusaders'.

People should voice their opinions when they feel that someone has behaved badly, even if they didn't find out at the exact time that it happened. Precisely because devoted listeners aren't going to complain about it themselves.

And this has nothing to do with Sach's age, or the morality of this. It has everything to do with respect, and the fact that people just don't seem to have any for each other anymore, which is why someone thought this offensive crap suitable for broadcast.

And yes, it does have something to do with the way people talk about certain groups, in this case, women. Whatever the truth is, it comes across as them outing her as a slut in order to offend her grandfather. It's unbelievable to think that in this day and age, women are still the whores, and boys just get props.

LIZS Tue 28-Oct-08 13:39:40

Blu concur with your post of 13:23. The BBC is held as a benchmark for broadcasting the world over. It may well be a double standard but what is acceptable on Channel 4/5 etc is simply not on BBC, partly due to its funding stream and partly for its reputation's sake. It took a hard knock over the phone voting scandal, ironically with one of the shows implicated being RB's radio show hmm

turquoise Tue 28-Oct-08 13:41:59

<<applauds MoChan>>

1. You don't need a TV licence to listen to the Radio
2. this programme was on the radio
3. Anyone ever seen or laughed at Peter Cook and Dudley Moore
4. Actually - with certain provisos, I think anyone is fair game.

Blu Tue 28-Oct-08 13:45:01

Not prison, perhaps.

But definitely a long sentence of Slebs-eat-Slugs or X-factor or some other modern day version of the stocks or pillory.

turquoise Tue 28-Oct-08 13:46:37

I adore Peter Cook. He is my comedy hero - even Derek and Clive make me pee with laughter.

Still think what RB and JR did was vile and should be publicly punished.

mabanana Tue 28-Oct-08 13:47:13

The show is funded by the licence. If you have one, you are paying for it.
Did Peter Cook and Dudley Moore ring up old people and shout abusive things about their grandchildren at them? Or were they funny instead?
I'm sure you'd find it fantastically funny if your child was is verbally bullied in the playground or if people called your grandma a slut for a laugh. Or possibly not.

"A BBC spokeswoman said the programme had received two complaints related to Ross's swearing - rather than the content of the phone calls - before details of the incident were publicised in a Sunday newspaper. "

Sachs' agent, Meg Poole, has written a letter to Radio 2 controller Lesley Douglas asking for an unreserved apology. She added that the actor did not hear the programme, but listened to a recording and was "offended very much indeed" by its content.

mabanana Tue 28-Oct-08 13:48:46

So? Are you surprised that a 78 year old actor doesn't listen to Russell Brand? What is the point of that post?

Hurrah! I have one! I am happy to pay for it!

turquoise - weren't you offended on Dudley Moores behalf when Peter Cook was so vile about the cancer knowing full well that Moores motehr was dying from it! shock

"The BBC seem to show a bias towards Muslims. Andrew Sachs is a Jew,
I think he only had the mick taken out of him because of this, if he was Muslim this
would not have happened. All religions need to be considered equal in the BBC." hmm

Upwind Tue 28-Oct-08 13:51:24

beaniescreamyb, I know you've already been asked this but - do you have some personal interest in this story, e.g. knowing one of the presenters?

Blu Tue 28-Oct-08 13:51:48

Sachs hardly needed to listen to the broadcast - he had had a sneak preview on his answerphone!

"My whole family and I were disgusted and angered by the filthy and
obscene prank phone call made by Jonathan Ross and Russell Brand to Andrew
Sachs. It was pornographic and dirty stuff aimed at mocking an old man. I want
them sacked immediately"

MoChan Tue 28-Oct-08 13:52:04

Thanks, Turquoise.

"Actually - with certain provisos, I think anyone is fair game."

You know what? That's the problem with a) the media, and b) society.

All these magazines, propping these celebs up in order to later pull them down, and laugh and point at their cellulite/botched plastic surgery, etc. It's bullying, and this was what the JR/RB episode also was. We accept this bullying as entertainment (see Big Brother for more evidence) and yet we expect our children to go to schools that are free of it. It's just horrible.

littlelapin Tue 28-Oct-08 13:52:36

I'm still not getting the repeated references to Pete and Dud. When did they ever phone someone up and shout "he fucked your granddaughter" down the phone?

This one is fab!

"I find this an entirely inappropriate thing to do to an elderly man and a
holocaust survivor."

turquoise Tue 28-Oct-08 13:53:21

If you're talking about the Cancer sketch - well Dudley Moore was in it! So not really for me to be offended for him.

mabanana Tue 28-Oct-08 13:53:50

What is the point of copying and pasting stuff from a totally different website?

Blu Tue 28-Oct-08 13:54:01

beanie - from what you are presumbly copying and pasting, I do agree that some of the comments on the BBC site are...getting fanciful. I thought we were discussing comments and debate on MN?

I don't agree with the 'pro-muslim anti-semitic' theory...but don't see how posters on the BBC site negate views posed on MN?

littlelapin Tue 28-Oct-08 13:54:58

Interesting way of trying to win an argument - C&P from an entirely different site hmm

MurderousMarla Tue 28-Oct-08 13:55:36

I have a licence and therefore pay for lots of shit I can't stand. Should I demand that everything I hate should be scrapped?

littlelapin Tue 28-Oct-08 13:56:53

"Take the hit unless they have another rate you can move onto with no fees and no penalties, and then start the re-mortgage process around June time, in order to get both mortgage amounts onto the same rate.

Otherwise you will always have this problem of two amounts finishing their deals at two different times, and then only having the option of staying with your current lender or paying a penalty to leave"

(that's from MoneySavingExpert's forum, since we're copying in irrelevant stuff smile)

Blu Tue 28-Oct-08 13:56:53


mabanana Tue 28-Oct-08 13:58:12

And I heart MoChan's posts! If we think everyone is 'fair game' and we should not respect people or treat them gently if there is the remotest prospect of having a laugh at their expense instead, the we and our children will experience the consequences of it. I imagine the person who called a call centre and shouted 'I hope your children die' at a Mumsnetter's husband, thinks Brand and Ross are simply hilarious.

MurderousMarla Tue 28-Oct-08 13:58:26

I do think they should make a sincere apology but calling for them to be sacked just seems extreme. And why shouldn't the producer take some flack? RB often does pre-records, it is not unusual for stuff to be edited out.

Upwind Tue 28-Oct-08 13:58:45

"I have a licence and therefore pay for lots of shit I can't stand. Should I demand that everything I hate should be scrapped? "

If it is actually hateful offensive shit that could be classed as harassment - then yes, of course you should demand it is scrapped. If it is merely not to your taste, then no.

Marina Tue 28-Oct-08 13:59:07

I agree with you MoChan, and with Blu's post of 13.23 about the BBC. We are really fortunate to have such an excellent, diverse public broadcasting company, the envy of the world, so it is a PITA when clods like JR and RB pull this sort of pathetic, meanspirited stunt.
I've been pissed off for a while about the amount JR is paid (others too) and I don't even dislike him particularly.

MurderousMarla Tue 28-Oct-08 13:59:53

Funnily enough, I do find RB and (to a lesser extent JR) funny. I love RB. I'm not sure that says anything about me though.

No - I have never met and nor do I know the presenters - what a really odd question!

I think that this uproar has become bigger than it should as a result of an agenda against the BBC and these two people in particular. So many of the comments from viewers and from people on here start with 'I don't like Russel brand/J Ross anyway'

I think people are negatively swayed by their existing opinions of them both!

MurderousMarla Tue 28-Oct-08 14:00:35

Yes, Upwind, and silly though this was, I would not call it hateful.

mabanana Tue 28-Oct-08 14:00:36

"When you have a newly set-up tank, the choice in aquatic shops can be overwhelming. It is all too tempting to fill it with fish within days, but you must resist and cycle the tank first."

Marina Tue 28-Oct-08 14:00:53

beany, pick the BBC forum comments apart on the BBC forum, why don't you? hmm
There's not really much overlap between the foamflecked stuff you are cherrypicking from there and the current posts on this thread tbh

littlelapin Tue 28-Oct-08 14:03:07

"Surely you've got the old sprocket, in which case I'd keep it the same, but if you go with fewer teeth on the back it'll increase top end (as long as it has enough power) but reduce acceleration, and the opposite if it has more teeth on the back."

ssummers Tue 28-Oct-08 14:03:31

I cant wait until this story is old news and chip wrapper. What they did was wrong - but the tabloids print FAR worse lies and are not held accountable.

There are far worse things going on in the world and this is the sort of media circus that will cause the goverment to rub their hands together in glee! Whilst we are debating this the fact that our economy is in meltdown, we are still at war and we are all SKINT is not talked about as much.

Andrew Sachs interpretation of a 'dumb' abused spanish waiter in Fawlty Towers was far more offensive! (that was a joke - I love Fawlty Towers.

I bet more people listen to Russel Brands radio show after this. The best thing if you dont like the two blokes concerned is to SWITCH off. If what they did was illegal - let the police deal with it.

RantinEminor Tue 28-Oct-08 14:04:14

Wow - just heard that 4,500 complaints have now been received about this. I think it slightly odd that so many people are complaining retrospectively. Not that I am saying it wasn't utterly stupid and rude, because it was.

BBBeeast Tue 28-Oct-08 14:05:30

yes i am going to write to the BBC and demand that my licence fee is never used towards anything with Mr Tumble in it.

Marina Tue 28-Oct-08 14:05:49

"To keep track of where I am in a pattern, I just stick the pattern in a plastic sleeve and then use a dry erase marker to mark where I am. This is especially helpful during the more complicated areas of a pattern".
Handy tip from Ravelry.
Contentious use of a plastic sleeve there, anyone with relatives in the commercial stationery business want to manufacture an argument out of thin air?

littlelapin Tue 28-Oct-08 14:07:03

shock a plastic sleeve???!!! <swoons>

Marina Tue 28-Oct-08 14:07:16

Oh now you're talking BBBeast <runs off to draft incandescent e-mail about the RB and JR of CBeebies, the manifestly juvenile and offensive Big Cock, Little Cock>

edam Tue 28-Oct-08 14:09:07

With any luck, this will make the industry ditch prank phone calls. They are cheap and nasty - having a laugh at the expense, usually, of some innocent person who has to pick up the phone, often receptionists.

Beanie - it does your argument no good at all to make sweeping and negative judgements about the opinions of those with whom you disagree. It is highly derogatory to the other posters and their opinions to suggest that they are speaking based on blind bias rather than, as I see in their posts, an intelligent appraisal of the incident in question.

Indeed, as I have already said, it is my previously good opinion of Jonathon Ross that is making me all the more horrified at this incident. He struck me as intelligent, funny and decent before this - and this has made me rethink radically.

Marina Tue 28-Oct-08 14:10:31

Sayonara fonejacker and Dom Joly eh Edam
Am sitting here crying at that thought, not wink

littlelapin Tue 28-Oct-08 14:10:43
Bride1 Tue 28-Oct-08 14:11:01

Yeah, they were fun back in the innocent days of someone pretending to be Tom Baker/Doctor Who and ringing a DIY superstore to ask for supplies to fix the Tardis, but those days have gone. Or perhaps even then they weren't so innocent.

Marina Tue 28-Oct-08 14:13:08

I've always had a soft spot for JR too sunnygirl. Am hmm, like you, at the implication that anyone who thinks they have been a pair of crass pillocks on this occasion is a wannabe Mary Whitehouse. Talk about fatuous generalisation!

Marina Tue 28-Oct-08 14:13:52

Oh how could you lapin. I just regurgitated my lunch all over taxpayers' property!

Apologies if my posting comments from the BBC complaints log is irrelevant. I was discussing how I thought that all these complaints should now be ignored as they are obviously from people who were not offended at the time of broadcast and who have only listened to this programme (And therefore been offended) since they were alerted to it.

The offence caused towards Sachs is no doubt real but surely it is being made worse by having all these people tell eachother to listen to a programme they would not normally listen too in an attempt to get them to complain to the BBC.

I just mean to say be very carefull who is pulling your strings and for what purpose.

hullygully Tue 28-Oct-08 14:21:00

I just read all 11 pages of this and then listened to the you tube clip. Thought it was v funny. Did/do people really find it "horrifying," I can see ill-judged or silly, but not "horrifying."

"Beanie - it does your argument no good at all to make sweeping and negative judgements about the opinions of those with whom you disagree. It is highly derogatory to the other posters and their opinions to suggest that they are speaking based on blind bias rather than, as I see in their posts, an intelligent appraisal of the incident in question."

not my intention whatsoever to make sweeping generalisations. Several people here and on the logs have expressed their already existing dislike of the two presenters.

Oh and thank you for your apology earlier - much appreciated smile

Upwind Tue 28-Oct-08 14:24:56

The response to this intrigues me - the BBC was very slow to apologise and Brand's sniggering and insincere apology on Chris Moyle's show might even have prompted the furore. Those involved really did not seem to understand that they'd seriously overstepped the mark.

Maybe with all the relentless bad economic news lately people are jumping on this and Osborne/Mandelson as a distraction? Lots of main stories in the news right now seem to be about egomaniacs who got carried away, whether the CEOs of major banks, politicans or these.

Thomcat Tue 28-Oct-08 14:27:07

Hasn't this talked itself out yet?

Sorry, have to say that I really don't think it was that bad. I'm slightly amazed by how much the UK have to say on the subject tbh. Didn't hear it but if I had done I know it would have made me LOL in a shocked, oh how naughty way.
I often LOL at RB & JR. I think it was a mad silly moment that got a bit out of control. That's what they are about. Why they have such huge ratings. What the BBC pay them for. I think it was a bit odd for the team involved to make the decision to go ahead and air it, they could easily have cut it but they didn't so all invloved should get a wrist slap and apologise and move on. I'm sorry I just really don't think it was that bad at all. I just don't. I can't wait for this to be yesterdays news.

I think I'll wait to see what this grandaughter has to say!

littlelapin Tue 28-Oct-08 14:34:18

Miss Baillie said last night: 'I've only just got back.

'I was aware of what happened but I just need some time to get my head together now.

'I don't want to say anything more until I've had a chance to speak to my agent.'

YEAH - I saw that - I mean what she has to say in response to the apology.

Where did you copy and paste that from!

littlelapin Tue 28-Oct-08 14:38:23

Daily Mail wink

ssummers Tue 28-Oct-08 14:40:20

I agree Thomcat

God. So cringeworthy & didn't even raise a smile (even a sneaky one).

Embarrassing for them rather than anyone else.

Flynnie Tue 28-Oct-08 15:06:26

I complained!
No I didn't listen to show at the time but then I dont listen to that claptrap. (heard it on youtube) However I am still disgusted that the BBC aired it and am intitled to complain.

Also RB has done this before. He said that he had slept with Rod Stewarts daughter and that turned out to be untrue, and there was the call he made to the police to say he had spotted a wanted sex attacker in the audience of his show.
Classy guyhmm

WideWebWitch Tue 28-Oct-08 15:08:13

I didn't hear this but was listening to the radio on the M1 today and EVERYONE was doing outraged: Vanessa Feltz, some bloke on LBC, Capital, 3 counties, the lot!

On Radio 4 they were discussing the economy so I ended up listening to that.

Storm in a teacup imo.

Flynnie - Did your knowledge of what R Brand is llike influence your decision to complain?

Also - why did you watch/listen on YouTube if you knew you were llikely to be offended?

Flynnie Tue 28-Oct-08 15:27:30

Not really. I complained because the BBC should not be airing abusive phonecalls.

I listened to the youtube clip because I couldn't very well complain without knowing exactly what was said could I?

Btw I wasnt offended I was appalled.

wintera Tue 28-Oct-08 15:33:02

I find the posts about what older people find amusing or threatening very interesting indeed. One day I found my 70 year old in-laws laughing their arses off to something in the paper. It was the story about Jonathan Ross saying "Heather Mills is a fucking liar, I bet she's even got 2 legs!"
They thought it was hilarious. Not offended in the least. There will be loads of oldies out there who love a bit of blue!

I don't remember all this outcry with that incident but then again, Heather Mills isn't very well liked is she? Maybe if these two had done this to a less likeable celebrity, then people wouldn't be so offended on their behalf.

Ah - I just learned the true meaning of Appalled, never bothered to look it up before. grin

Bride1 Tue 28-Oct-08 15:34:49

But would they have been laughing if JR had been saying that YOU were an etc, etc ....?

It's the personal angle that hurts.

wintera Tue 28-Oct-08 15:38:15

Bride1 - No they prob wouldn't have been laughing, but then if thats the case then why are people on here taking it so personally then? I would find it hard to believe that nobody on here ever had a laugh at someone elses expense.

Of course no one has ever had a lugh at the expense of someone else, some celebrity... on here?! No! never! grin

laugh... woops

MoChan Tue 28-Oct-08 15:42:20

I actually agree that this is only one small incident. What I think is relevant about it is that it is wholly representative of a couple of pretty nasty things that I mentioned in an earlier post; this bullying-for-entertainment trend , and this talking-about-women-who-have-sex-as-though-they're-scum thing. Which has always happened to an extent, but in my opinion, never more so than now, despite our alleged emancipation. Has anyone noticed where pornography is going lately? Okay, sorry. That's a whole other thing.

MoChan Tue 28-Oct-08 15:43:53

beanie, there's a difference between having a laugh at a celebrity who is being a bit foolish, or a laugh at someone falling over on You've Been Framed, and laughing at the abusive statements someone is making about someone.

Flynnie Tue 28-Oct-08 15:46:49

Maybe I have been wrong(it has been known) is it okay to call up someone on mainstream radio and swear and make crude comments and then to ignore the fact that they are offended?

MoChan Tue 28-Oct-08 15:47:30

Re that Heather Mills comment, I also think that's pretty abhorrent, as is the way people talk about her. And I don't say that because I like her, I say that because she is a human being and shouldn't have that level of abuse hurled at her.

I'm pretty sure she said some nasty things about her ex, yes. But two wrongs don't make a right.

pmsl at ahundredtimes

Upwind Tue 28-Oct-08 15:49:29

Beanie, I can safely say that no MNer has ever called an elderly celebrity and left abusive messages like that about their grandchild. Or even tracked down the grandparents of a celebreity to leave abusive messages.

Agree with MoChan, and the posts about the prank phone calls.

To maintain the shock value these pillocks have had to keep pushing it further and further. Finally two of the biggest celebrities have gotten carried away and are now facing a backlash from the public who pay their salaries.

I was responding to wintera's post.

smallwhitecat Tue 28-Oct-08 16:13:25

I hope the woman concerned sues for libel. I certainly would, imagine if people went round thinking you'd slept with that eyesore. we need a <BLEUGH> emoticon

purits Tue 28-Oct-08 16:13:29

Disclaimer: don't listen to either of them on the radio. I am on the same sofa as DH when he watches JR on Friday night.

Either JR has been getting more pervy or I have been getting more Mary Whitehouse-ish. Either way I have found him less and less entertaining but not enough to complain about it. Perhaps lots of others have been feeling the same and this was the final straw that did make people complain. Perhaps people are so vociferous because there is so much pent-up anger.
IIRC, JR was blackmailing his guests on screen to handover items for Children in Need. How about JR and RB give a large part of their salaries to CIN by way of apology? (That's an apology to the whole nation BTW, not just the Sachs family.)

Can I put money on the fact that the poor woman will not sue for libel. I wonder if she will be in the papers soon.

OH and lest there be any confusion the stuff I was copying and pasting was not from the BBC 'have your say' pages. They were from the complaints log.

AitchTwoOh Tue 28-Oct-08 16:28:08

i like them both, find them both terribly amusing and clever, albeit not when brand is in 'winky' mode.i do think ross has been less and less amusing recently, though, perhaps it's some sort of mid-life crisis?

he had jay-z on recently (who wiped the floor with him incidentally) and seemed to spend an inordinate amount of time asking him about beyonce's bootaaaay etc which just sounded weird. y'know, you've got this very clever and amusing rap star on, he's got a very clever and talented girlfried... let's talk about her arse. hmm

crumpet Tue 28-Oct-08 16:36:25

The granddaughter is a red herring - she is an adult who if she slept with Brand would have known that he is not exactly discreet and went ahead anyway.

If he is lying about it then yes I'd expect her to want to set the record straight.

But this is about their behaviour to Andrew Sachs w(hich will of course stop being newsworthy at some point but that of itself doesn't negate many of the comments on this thread)

You know what - along with comments about him being a grandfather I have read a lot of comments about her being a grand daughter. People seem to forget she's a 23 year old Grand daughter. When I was 23 I didn't expect of need my grandfather jumping in to protect me! I really can't wait to hear what she says in her interview with the News of the World.

AitchTwoOh Tue 28-Oct-08 16:42:02

i disagree, crumpet. she might have expected brand to be indiscreet but there is somethig particularly loathsome about two men sniggering about shagging a girl in any case, the fact that they named her and phoned her gf and did so on the radio is pretty crushing, imo, no matter how sexually free and easy you are. there should be a bit of respect, surely?

and if she takes full advantage of this publicity to help her career and profile... to my mind she bloody deserves something out of this fiasco. it won't mean that brand and ross have done her a favour by humiliating her and shaming her in front of her grandad. they'll still be pricks.

AitchTwoOh Tue 28-Oct-08 16:43:07

nobody's saying he's protecting her. hmm what are you on about, beanie?

what if she comes out and says she doesn't know what all the fuss is about. GOD I hope she does grin

ahundredtimes Tue 28-Oct-08 16:47:37

beanie you've made a valiant effort on this thread - but I have to point out that I am not offended by their behaviour, it wasn't my anserphone or my grand daughter.

I think they behaved stupidly and boringly and crassly. It's difficult to make a defense for crass and stupid behaviour really.

I don't know whether people are really using this to beat the BBC. That sounds more hysterical to me than the cry of 'I'm offended!' on the BBC message boards or wherever.

It just wasn't such a smart thing to do, and they look like idiots, and I think it's okay to judge them for being so.

AitchTwoOh Tue 28-Oct-08 16:48:20

what earthly difference will that make? you understand that it's ross and brand who have done the Bad Thing here, don't you? by leaving nasty answering machine messages for an old bloke and playing them on the radio..?

i'd imagine she will come out and say that she doesn't have a problem with it... why would she try to take down two v powerful men in her industry when she can choose to save their bacon and have them owe her a favour? you're seeming a bit naive, beanie, for all your bluster. grin

Flynnie Tue 28-Oct-08 16:51:15

Beanie- why are you so against the granddaughter? she may or may not have been involved with RB that is not the point, she did not ask for him and JR to call up her grandfather and discuss it.

crumpet Tue 28-Oct-08 16:54:09

I don't disagree AitchTwoOh and certainly think it displays appallingly bad taste, but given the probability (sounds as if I've thought about this a lot but I haven't really!) that RB seems so publicity hungry and has from what I gather brought so many aspects of his life into the public domain, then I'm not entirely surprised that the name of someone he slept with has made its way into the media in a cringy, sniggering, made-fun-of way. It's not as if he didn't have form in this respect so if it did happen then she was taking a big risk.

But for me the most distateful thing is the Andrew Sachs element.

Erm... I fail to see where I have been 'against' the grandaughter! No - she didn't ask him to, well, not as far as we know.

She's not a child though and whether you like it or not the language used by the Mail on Sunday and Mail on Sunday when 'exposing' this is very deliberate.

I can only guess but I imagine what has happened is Sachs has been upset but his Grand daughter was pretty oblivious to the whole thing until it made the papers. In the BBC timeline there is no mention yet of when Sachs complained but from what I have read it was between the recording on 16th and the broadcast on the 18th. It just seems to me that this whole thing has been blown out of proportion and I wouldn't be surprised if Sachs is now regretting the fact that the Mail ran with this story to the extent it did.

Crumpet - when you say the Sachs element is the most distasteful thing, can you explain what you mean?

Thomcat Tue 28-Oct-08 16:56:50

Apaprently there were 2 complaints about this before the Daily Mail jumped on the story. Now it's the lead news story on BBC London, to name but 1 I'm sure, people complaining left right and centre, major newspapers discussisng it, chat shows on radio, us etc etc etc. Bit mad really. Think people need to calm down a bit, in general, I mrean the whole of the UK.

The GF was supposed to be on the show. He didn't appear. They rang him. JR got silly and rude (what he';s paid to do and why people chose to tune in and listen to him) and said that RB had $*&%ed his GD on an answerphone messgae. Not nice but he'df have got over it a lot quicker if the the newspapers and radio shows weren't running this as a lead story!!!!

And what's the big deal with the UK finding out that RB and this girl slept together. (The issue of JR using the F word to hr GF aside). Those nasty mags like Heat etc print pics of people sneaking out of other peoples flats having obviously spent the night together. She got papped basically. Sleep with a celeb, take that risk. JR was wrong to have said what he said but that is a huge part of his appeal and why he is so highly paid and why he has huge audience figures etc so again, that's the risk that runs with having him on air.

Ohhhh bring out the fish and chips and let me eat wrap them up in this story please god!

Upwind Tue 28-Oct-08 16:57:33

But Georgina Baillie was not well known before this - neither am I, and if I was to sleep with Russell Brand I doubt anyone would be interested. Not even the tabloids. If she did sleep with him, and she may not have done, she had no reason to expect it to be discussed on national radio on three occasions, let alone have abusive phonecalls to her grandfather about it.

crumpet Tue 28-Oct-08 16:58:19

the phone calls

Well said Thomcat:

As far as I can see these were the two complaints made at the time of broadcast:

"There has been a lot of sexual comments on this programme and I think it is totally
inappropriate. It is a load of rubbish."


"This programme was just disgraceful. I was annoyed that Russell Brand was
making fun of Jonathan Ross' speech impediment. He also said he'd break into
Andrew Sachs's bedroom and 'go and kiss him all over and masturbate him'."

Thomcat Tue 28-Oct-08 17:01:46

If I had slept with RB and was seen sneaking out hius flat at 6.30am I could have been papped as 'mystery girl leaves RB's flat' or something. And she's an aspiring model / actress isn't she? She'll be loving the attention I reckon. She slept with a man , who many womnen find very sexy, and who is a celeb...............yeah, and, what??? Who gives a toss? Lucky her. She was an unkown, now she's in the centre of all this and is a household name, but becasue everyone is talking about it still!!!!

Aploogies for the copy and paste - this is from the have your say page

"I actually find it quite offensive if not highly sickening that Mr Sachs could allow his granddaughter to partake in such disgusting acts.

Georgina Baillie not only works in soft porn but also depicts brutal, vicious and evil scenes - like cutting throats of young girls.

Who would let their granddaughter do such things? This is clearly a mental problem that needs immediate attention. To want to act out scenes of bloody murder and cutting throats is seriously worrying me. No one else cares?


now that's funny! no?

MurderousMarla Tue 28-Oct-08 17:34:12

Beany that is pretty funny

JoolsToo Tue 28-Oct-08 17:54:23

thomcat I love you, I do but imagine your dad getting a call like that about one of your girls? would you care how many complaints were first received and how many after the press got hold of it? I'd imagine you wouldn't give a sh*t all you'd be bothered about is that your dad was subjected to hearing obscenities about one of your dd's

everything else is irrelevant. two well paid, top celebrities acted appallingly. the age of the girl, what she does, what happens as a result, the age of the recipient of the call, what he does - all irrelevant. if it were her 26 year old partner, brother, friend, whether she consented, it matters not, what they did was awful. no-one should have to receive a message like that. in fact they could be charged under the telecommunications act as any one of us would be in rl.

because people like them, because they are known as outrageous does NOT excuse them.

I didn't know, until today, that Russell had been sacked from MTV for appearing as Osama Bin Laden the day after 911 - says it all really and why the hell did the BBC, using tax payers money, employ someone of that ilk in the first place?

JoolsToo Tue 28-Oct-08 17:55:55

licence payers money I mean

LIZS Tue 28-Oct-08 18:00:54

Actually I was thinking similar JT but of how JR would feel if it were his daughters (who I think are teenagers now) who were the subject of this. Not so funny then I suspect.

wintera Tue 28-Oct-08 18:05:02

Just had Radio 4 on. One of their people had contacted Andrew Sachs to ask him a few questions. He wasn't on live but they read out things he had said. From the comments they read out - he actually sounded much more upset that his Grandaughter's lifestyle had become public knowledge, and those photos had been in the press than the phonecalls themselves.

I fear the press have actually made this situation far worse for him. Last week most people didn't know about any of this, except for people listening to the show or podcast. Nobody got their knickers in a twist. It would have gone away. The Daily Mail then took it upon themselves to be outraged on his behalf and now its all over the news. He must be very sorry that the press ever got involved in it.

As for the girl herself, I have no problem with her at all. She actually looks kind of cool. Although I always have a sort of sympatico for a fellow goth! I can do without the pics of her slitting someone's throat though. Don't think The Daily Mail should have run that picture. . .but hey, thats another argument.

I was listening to Radio4 a bit earlier, and they were interviewing another comedian (Andrew Something - not sure what - not Andrew Sachs, though), who said that Andrew Sachs had complained about the call to the BBC BEFORE the segment was broadcast - which makes the decision to go ahead and broadcast it even more strange.

He also made the point that if everything that was said, for example, on Have I Got News for You was broadcast, the show wouldn't have survived past the first broadcast - but it did, because it's edited before broadcast.

artichokes Tue 28-Oct-08 18:15:21

Sorry I di dnot know about this thread so have just started another about my utter shock that the PM is now commenting on this.

Get some perspective people. I just do not understand how this is such a huge issue.

I appreciate their are wider questions about how the BBC uses the license fee but this trivial matter is irrelvant to that wider question.

MadamePlatypus Tue 28-Oct-08 18:20:43

Its one thing making a comment about somebody on the radio ( in the case of this show, who would hear it anyway?) - its quite another to leave bullying messages on their answering machine. I understand that Andrew Sachs was supposed to appear on this radio programme but exercised his right to have nothing to do with it.

Phone bullying is wrong when its done by an idiotic 14 year old whose biggest ambition in life is to go on Big Brother, and it's wrong when it's done by Jonathan Ross and Russell Brand on a BBC radio station.

"Of course no one has ever had a lugh at the expense of someone else, some celebrity... on here?! No! never!"

To be honest I think some threads are overly abusive, but presumably nobody emails a copy of the thread to the relevant celeb.

AitchTwoOh Tue 28-Oct-08 18:20:45

well, technically its rb and jr who've made the situ worse ifas didn't want his gd's lifestyle known.

AitchTwoOh Tue 28-Oct-08 18:22:28

eddie mair was saying yesterday that him an nilsblyth were going to leave abusive messages for mervyn king. wink

LurkerOfTheUniverse Tue 28-Oct-08 18:23:25

it's getting very dull now

AitchTwoOh Tue 28-Oct-08 18:24:50

it's more fun than the cedit crunch, though

smallwhitecat Tue 28-Oct-08 18:27:07

In the 1970s the BBC gave us Andrew Sachs, a highly talented comic actor who helped create one of the best-loved sitcom characters ever. In 2008 it gives us Russell Brand and Jonathan Ross.
This sums up the decline in the quality of the BBCs output, and indeed the national average IQ, quite neatly IMHO.

Sobernow Tue 28-Oct-08 18:32:18

It reminds me of Billy Connolly's comment about getting bored waiting for a hostage's head to be cut off.

It's not edgy. It isn't based on debunking a pompous persona or satirising a hypocritical standpoint. It isn't gently and wryly observing the human condition. I thought that was what comedy is based on.

I have always rated RB and, until sometime last year-ish, had time for JR. But this was not funny in any grown up way and has proved deeply hurtful to people who don't deserve it.

I will just stop watching and listening, the same as I did with Billy Connolly. No loss to any of the people concerned, but a gain for me, imo.

wintera Tue 28-Oct-08 18:32:56

My Hubby has just walked in shaking his head that this is now being discussed in parliament!

Hallowean Tue 28-Oct-08 18:36:31

have the controllers who allowed it to air been sacked yet?

Hallowean Tue 28-Oct-08 18:38:05

oh absolutely sobernow, absolutely. I've gone off billy connolly for the same reason. Although curiosity will make me want to see if an apology appears on Friday night.....blush

littlelapin Tue 28-Oct-08 18:38:53

Andrew Sachs is the only person to come out of this with dignity. This is from BBC News:

"Meanwhile, Mr Sachs has told the BBC that on the day the show was recorded, "the producer called me on my mobile to ask whether they could play the recording in question out".

He added: "The signal was poor and I couldn't really hear what was being played down the line to me.

"But I asked whether they would consider allowing me to come in the following week and then the recorded segment would not have to be included."

He said Ross had "personally delivered a letter of apology and some flowers".

"He made no excuses and he was very frank and open," he added.

"He is in a lot of trouble and I don't want to pile any more on him."

He has not "heard anything" from Brand, he said.

He added that his granddaughter had not heard from either broadcaster and that both men "owe her an apology"."

I am impressed that Jonathan Ross made the effort to actually go and apologise in person, and that Sachs has accepted graciously. Brand, on the other hand... hmm

mabanana Tue 28-Oct-08 18:40:36

Actually I really hope this opens up a whole debate about what is 'fair game' (repellent phrase, repellent attitude IMO), how we treat people in the media and in real life, and about respect and sexism.
The rubbishing of women and the casual verbal violence of everyday life is an important issue.
I mentioned a recent thread where a mumsnetter whose husband works in a call centre was recently told 'I hope your children die'. In another thread lots of people mentioned how aggressively they are treated on the road. It is endemic.

Hallowean Tue 28-Oct-08 18:41:48

Well yeah - JR has 6 million pa at stake - RB only has 200k. wink[cynic]

mabanana Tue 28-Oct-08 18:42:55

I also really strongly agree with the way that somne men still appear to think having sex with a woman is somehow doing them down/humiliating them/scoring a victory over them. That's the message I got from the JR/RB transcript.

mabanana Tue 28-Oct-08 18:43:41

aargh - I don't mean I agree with them doing it! shock I mean, I agree that this is what was happening, and it's really horrible!

littlelapin - since it was jonathan ross who made the offensive comment sureley he should be expecting an apology from J Ross more than from R Brand!

wintera Tue 28-Oct-08 18:59:18

Was just going to say the same thing Beanie! Hey, are you on facebook? Don't worry, I'm not a weirdo. Just wanted to direct you to a facebook site you might be interested in.

littlelapin Tue 28-Oct-08 19:01:05

I think he - and his granddaughter - deserve an apology from BOTH men. And RB has made it worse by his insincere "apology" on the radio.

I think J ross's comments shouldn't have been broadcast. I think this kind of humour is ok and I would go so far to say that if my dad (when he was alive) had a phone call from someone he knew, whos comedy he knew, of that kind he probably wouldn't have been upset.

What's the facebook group? I'll put the link to mine on my profile!

wintera Tue 28-Oct-08 19:14:56

Its called Russell Brand on BBC Radio 2 I think. Just do a search for it on facebook. It has about 5,000 and odd fans. You have to become a fan to get in. However there are load of other groups on there too of course.

onebatmotherofNormanBates Tue 28-Oct-08 19:42:23

I'm sure people have said this already, sorry...

but the thing which I loathe most of all is the huge misogyny of the idea that they have 'disrespected' A Sachs by fucking one of his females.

That possibly wasn't their 'idea'

onebatmotherofNormanBates Tue 28-Oct-08 20:13:11

Hmm. I think it was the motivation for JR's initial 'he fucked your gd' and for their mock horror at the insult they've offered AS. AS himself seems to be aware of this when he says that the apology is owed not to him, but to his GD.

AitchTwoOh Tue 28-Oct-08 20:23:10

it's very much the underlying theme, beanie.

mabanana Tue 28-Oct-08 20:27:59

Onebat, no the disrespect is not having sex (or possibly not) with Baille, it is phoning up her grandfather gloating about it in obscene language which they KNEW (and hoped) he would find distasteful at best.

Thomcat Tue 28-Oct-08 20:29:50

Jools (I love you too btw), if my Dad received a call like that about one of my girls I'd be furious. I'd get hold of Jonathan Ross, wait outside Radio 2 for him and have it out with him. What I wouldn't want,and what I object to is that everyone else would be discussing it. That the papers would be making it their lead story, that news agencies would be discussing it, radio shows having phone-ins about it and so on. I'd hate JR to be personal in that way about my daughter to my dad, but I'd consider it private and would take it up with him and the BBC and be happy with that tbh. I'd get over it pretty quickly. I would not want everyone else making such a song and dance over it, making me, my DD and my dad feeling far more awful about it than we would ever have it had just been left alone. IMO it really, reallyb isn't that newsworthy. It's spiralling out of control and I think it's way OTT.

onebatmotherofNormanBates Tue 28-Oct-08 20:31:19

I agree - but underlying that distaste is the idea that men lose face when another man has unauthorised sex with one of their womenfolk.

GinghamRibbon Tue 28-Oct-08 20:39:07

The pair of them should hang.

Jonathon Ross being paid £6 million per year.

What the fARK.

Disgraceful. If my Father who is 76 should hear such chat, I would be really embarrassed.

onebatmotherofNormanBates Tue 28-Oct-08 20:40:19


hangings too good for em, surely?


BloodshotEyeballsintheScarySky Tue 28-Oct-08 20:45:48

I love the way that some of you think this is all jolly japes because only two people complained straight after the show. This just tells me something about their audience and what they consider acceptable. I'm not offended as it wasn't directed at me but I am disgusted. They didn't even just phone the woman in question, they targeted a man who had absolutely nothing to do with it.

This whole episode just shows a complete lack of respect for anyone and a lack of dignity and really illustrates how some people are, and that's what really pisses me off. I wouldn't behave like that, nor I should think would any of you but we're all supposed to laugh our socks off when someone else does it because Brand is 'funny'. hmm

And it is our business because we pay these people a lot of money apparently to harrass people. Four telephone messages remember, not just one. I hope someone has the courage to bring them down a peg or two. Otherwise this just reinforces the fact that it's acceptable behaviour, and it isn't.

cupsoftea Tue 28-Oct-08 20:45:48

Horrid things to say, wrong to broadcast it - imho they should all be sacked and other more interesting presenters & better bbc staff given jobs.

ScottishMummy Tue 28-Oct-08 20:47:19

get dem glistening torches!hold dem high!lets mosey over to ross/brand place for some whoop-ass

Thomcat Tue 28-Oct-08 20:59:28

I don't think it's jolly japes cos only 2 people originally complained. I just hate how the media have whipped this up to a frenzy. I think it's all getting totally OTT. These presenters are paid to be the way they are, they are supposed to be controversial, but they crossed a line. They should have their arses whipped and sincere apologies made. I don't think they should be sacked and I think there are much bigger issues for people to worry about. I think this whole thing is bigger than it should be.

wintera Tue 28-Oct-08 21:02:39

Hear Hear Thomcat. Well said!

onebatmotherofNormanBates Tue 28-Oct-08 21:08:58

ScottishMummy - that's offensive, I think.

ScottishMummy Tue 28-Oct-08 21:10:44

which bit the whoop-ass or torches.sheesh wasn't like i phoned anyone and said it...was it

onebatmotherofNormanBates Tue 28-Oct-08 21:21:09

your metaphors are a bit mixed - you seem to be talking in comedy 'negro' voice about a lynching.. poor taste, anyway.

And in any case, it is not the case that RB and JR are easy targets, or the victims of some kind of Kerry Katona-esque witch-hunt. They fucked up, revealed themselves to be contemptuous of the feelings of AS and his GD, and offended many people (their female demographic for a start).

So we shouldn't call them to account, for fear of victimizing them?

Quattrocento Tue 28-Oct-08 21:22:49

Yes, they are bad.

Bring back the stocks.

mabanana Tue 28-Oct-08 21:25:49

I think there is a pent up feeling that people are tired of casual rudeness and cruelty, of obscene abuse passing for humour, of the grotesque lad culture even in middleaged men and general unkindness - and this has hit a nerve.

onebatmotherofNormanBates Tue 28-Oct-08 21:26:56

Now that's a comedy idea that hasn't imo been given a fair hearing..

dittany Tue 28-Oct-08 21:31:21

Didn't they joke about how Andrew Sachs might hang himself after getting the messages? The whole thing is so vile.

I think they deserve everything they are getting. Agree with you Mabanana that people are getting sick of humlitainment. It's not even funny - "He fucked your grandaughter", oh hee, hee, I can see why Ross's wit is worth £6 million a year to the license payers.

Moomin Tue 28-Oct-08 21:36:18

It's a marvellous excuse for lots of JR-haters to have their say and demand his dismissal, etc. The DM must be coming in their y-fronts that this has landed at their feet.

JR and RB were norty and out of order. Wasn't the first time. They've apologised (well JR has). It's not a capital offence. Sat mornings would be much duller without JR on Radio 2. Does his whole career really need to be hung out to dry over a silly, immature misguided 'prank'?

mabanana Tue 28-Oct-08 21:38:29

It was that awful new show 'unbreakable' or whatever it is that made me feel sick. Torture as family entertainment. HOw can anyone find bullying a perfectly nice man entertaining? I am sure JR/RB are role models for the kind of bloke who stuck two fingers up at me and shouted, all contorted with fury as I drove along with my little dd the other day - for no reason at all I could see.

LittleBellaLugosi Tue 28-Oct-08 21:38:36

Doubtless their audience find it hilarious that fucknig a woman is something to be remarked upon.

Because fucking women is hilarious isn't it. After all, the right way to feel about having gone to bed with a bloke is embarrassed/ ashamed. hmm

Feminism really is in the doldrums isn't it.

BTW beany, thinking ross and brand are tossers is not the same as being anti the licence fee, so conflating those issues is questionable.

mabanana Tue 28-Oct-08 21:40:41

Yes, RB and JR seem to think that 'fucking' a woman is equivalent to cheating her out of something, or tricking her, or scoring a victory over her. And what was that thing that JB was 'singing' - 'she wasn't menstrual'? What was that supposed to mean? Does he really hate women?

dittany Tue 28-Oct-08 21:41:03

I guess he only invited Sachs on the show in the first place because he'd "fucked his granddaughter". What kind of a shit does something like that?

Thomcat Tue 28-Oct-08 21:41:35

Yes, JR is to blame for some road rage idiot <sigh>

Going to have a bath and an early night.

mabanana Tue 28-Oct-08 21:42:25

I suspect you are right Dittany. Actually I'm sure you are. I bet he hoped to spring that on him in conversation.

mabanana Tue 28-Oct-08 21:43:19

It's part of the culture that says anyone is 'fair game' and nobody is entitled to respect, as Beany said herself earlier on this thread.

Thomcat Tue 28-Oct-08 21:44:10

And now heresay about only inviting the GF on because the GD and RB have had sex. Oh my god. Stop, calm down fgs, it's so ott. People are just making mad stuff up now. The words witch and hunt are starting to spring to mind.

Moomin Tue 28-Oct-08 21:45:22

without a doubt, dittany, andrew sachs will have been invited on the show in the first place as he has a book/DVD/summat-or-other to flog at the moment. Nothing wrong with that, but it's going a leeeeetle bit OTT to suggest they were OUT TO GET HIM.

AitchTwoOh Tue 28-Oct-08 21:45:23

i don't want them to be sacked, i must say, i think that would be the wrong thing to do. interesting, though, that JR was the worst offender (and most senior broadcaster) but i do feel that RB is now most in the wrong after his shitty non-apology. that he hasn't thought to at least pretend to be contrite is a bit worrying.

onebatmotherofNormanBates Tue 28-Oct-08 21:46:37

Moomin: "It's a marvellous excuse for lots of JR-haters to have their say and demand his dismissal, etc. The DM must be coming in their y-fronts that this has landed at their feet."

Disliking JR's underlying misogyny is not interchangeable with being a DM-reader.

FWIW I find JR funny, but that's constantly brought up short by the misogyny he habitually displays. Most recent example was his interview with Sarah Thingummy (the shock comic), whom he entirely predictably undermined by inviting her to get her tits out. Just the last in a long line of an increasingly creepy, pervy-grandad-like inability to deal with women as, well, as people, and not as cunts.

AitchTwoOh Tue 28-Oct-08 21:47:10

does he, moomin? it said in a report i read that he was on to talk to RB and JR about their love of fawlty towers... sounds like a wee bit of a sniggery set up between the boys to me.

Moomin Tue 28-Oct-08 21:47:13

Don't let the water out after you've finished thomcat - I'll get in after you. This is getting very silly

AitchTwoOh Tue 28-Oct-08 21:48:36

onebat, i noticed that DM said sarah silverman bombed... i thought she was hilarious.

JR's been on bad form of late, too Sid James.

Moomin Tue 28-Oct-08 21:49:13

I dislike the DM's misogyny far more than JR's. at least JR is overt about his

dittany Tue 28-Oct-08 21:49:25

Really moomin? What book/DVD/whatever is Sachs flogging? I'll take it back what I said if you can find it. But the circumstances do suggest it was sex with Sach's granddaughter that what was really interesting Brand. Supposedly he'd been telling all sorts of people about it.

AitchTwoOh Tue 28-Oct-08 21:49:38

no really, that was a proper question. does andrew sachs have something he's selling at the mo? that's not what i;d read, that's all.

mabanana Tue 28-Oct-08 21:49:49

It makes complete sense. Apparently he's been telling everyone that he had sex with Baille and that she is Andrew Sachs granddaughter (it was mentioned by that tosser Baddiel in a column, I think, and obliquely by that other tosser Chris Moyles on the radio) and was tittering about it with Jonathan Ross just before they made the phone call. Is it sheer coincidence that he fancied chatting with Sachs about 'his career' at this point? Nah, I don't think so.

AitchTwoOh Tue 28-Oct-08 21:51:16

lol, i don't think that the DM hides its misogyny under a bushel...

LittleBellaLugosi Tue 28-Oct-08 21:51:21

oh yes I so much more prefer the racism of the guy who wanted to kill Obama, rather than that of the DM. It's so much more overt and therefore preferable.


Eh? I don't like mysogyny at all actually, wherever it comes from

Moomin Tue 28-Oct-08 21:52:00

ok then I'll retract my assumption, if it'll stop the pitchforks from pricking my backside.

LittleBellaLugosi Tue 28-Oct-08 21:52:37

If it were racist abuse they'd left, there would have been an immediate apology.

Sexism's fine though.

AitchTwoOh Tue 28-Oct-08 21:52:55

how gracious you are in error, moomin. grin

onebatmotherofNormanBates Tue 28-Oct-08 21:52:57

"it's going a leeeeetle bit OTT to suggest they were OUT TO GET HIM."

jesus, it's a bad night when I get the quotation-marks out twice in a row but..

No-one is saying they were out to get him. People are saying that they saw the book-to-promote thing and recognized an opportunity to be amusingly misogynist.

You know, the starting-point is that JR knew that RB had 'had his gd'. That's why JR says 'don't hint at that' when RB tells AS that he respecks him 'and his progeny'. The whole freakin thing is built on the idea that JR and RB sit around discussing who RB has 'had', like hunters.

purits Tue 28-Oct-08 21:53:54

mabanana has made some good posts on this topic. I am shocked at those who seem to see this as a storm in a teacup and cannot see the bigger picture.

mabanana Tue 28-Oct-08 21:57:14

I don't even think Sachs has anything to promote. JR&RB said they were phoning to reminisce about Fawlty Towers, not that Sachs had a book or dvd or anything out, which they would have done if he had. The fact that the very first thing RB said was about his 'progeny' says it all about his real motive, IMO. It's so....creepy...

mabanana Tue 28-Oct-08 21:57:55

Thanks Purits - I agree with you too! smile

BloodshotEyeballsintheScarySky Tue 28-Oct-08 21:58:57

Mabanana said it better than I could but it's sort of what I was driving at.

"I think there is a pent up feeling that people are tired of casual rudeness and cruelty, of obscene abuse passing for humour, of the grotesque lad culture even in middleaged men and general unkindness - and this has hit a nerve."

hullygully Tue 28-Oct-08 22:00:25

Have you seen the Satanic Sluts?

onebatmotherofNormanBates Tue 28-Oct-08 22:01:24

So there isn't even a book to promote, and they have just cruelly pretended to be interested in AS in order to amuse themselves?

It's all a bit 18th-century.

Aitch, she was bewitching, imo.

hullygully Tue 28-Oct-08 22:02:32

I'd give her one.

hullygully Tue 28-Oct-08 22:02:51

And talk about it on the radio

LittleBellaLugosi Tue 28-Oct-08 22:05:18

LOL, ITV are running it as their first item.

RB answering all questions with "Hare Krishna"

The wonder is that anyone wants to go to bed with him at all. He is so slimy

littlelapin Tue 28-Oct-08 22:05:52

Andrew Sachs was supposed to come on because he is in a programme called The Bill Made Me Famous (RB and JR reference it in their conversation]]. He couldn't make it so they decided to phone him instead (this is obviously why they HAD his phone number). I don't think being invited onto a show makes someone fair game though.

And I don't think it matters whether the girl in question is an innocent virgin or a Satanic Slut, she's still entitled to privacy.

I wonder if JR would find it funny if someone phoned him on air and said they had fucked Betty Kitten. I'd imagine not.

LittleBellaLugosi Tue 28-Oct-08 22:06:03

omg it looks like it's snowing in London.

LittleBellaLugosi Tue 28-Oct-08 22:06:42

Who is Betty Kitten?

littlelapin Tue 28-Oct-08 22:07:24

JR's oldest daughter

hullygully Tue 28-Oct-08 22:07:46

I've had that Manuel as well. Scrubs up a treat in a leather thong. Kept shouting ?Que? at the moment of orgasm.

bodycolder Tue 28-Oct-08 22:08:27

This has put me of both of them tbh Apart from anything its not actually funny and they are paying JR a big wedge of the licence fee to regurge the same old every friday night and saturday morning

hullygully Tue 28-Oct-08 22:10:05

I had that Osama as well. Tickly beard.

elliott Tue 28-Oct-08 22:15:20

Just seen news at 10 report of this - methinks the bbc acting quite cynically in all this and are actually quite pleased at all the publicity hmm

onebatmotherofNormanBates Tue 28-Oct-08 22:15:45

And another thing: I LOATHE JR's vicarious-pleasure in women being 'had' by his mates. Loathe it.

He invariably invites testimony of other men's 'conquests', and iterates the freakish idea that women are the enemy of men, and must be humiliated, and that the best way to humiliate them is to fuck them.

He's a huge and (crucially) mainstream cultural figure now, not some kind of edgy comic. He's articulating the anxieties of the average misogynist fuckwit, as though the average misogynist fuckwit doesn't Have A Voice. But the average misogynist fuckwit's concerns are driving culture/society to quite the same degree as they have always done.

wintera Tue 28-Oct-08 22:16:45

Who here has actually heard the broadcast? If you had heard it you would know that Mr Sachs was invited on to discuss his involvement in a show called The Bill made my career or something like that. Jonathan and Russell were saying they didn't know he was in The Bill and that surely Fawlty Towers had made his career. Its interesting that none of you knew that fact, which leads me to believe not one of you has heard the full interview. How can you have a go if you haven't even heard it?????!!!!

Hullygully - no idea where you have come from but your posts have cheered me up a treat! wink

littlelapin Tue 28-Oct-08 22:18:00

wintera - as I said 10 minutes ago

AitchTwoOh Tue 28-Oct-08 22:19:30

if it was for a tv prog then he was doing the interview as a favour to the publicist, poor bastard.

AitchTwoOh Tue 28-Oct-08 22:20:14

i'd read the transcript and didn't understand that bit as it wasn't at all clear.

onebatmotherofNormanBates Tue 28-Oct-08 22:21:18

I refer you to my post of whenever, where I made the point that they would not have chosen AS's promotional moment (amongst many sad PR opps of that particular day) had it not been for the fact that RB had had his GD..

wintera Tue 28-Oct-08 22:21:48

Sorry Aitchtwooh - I was typing mine out when yours must have come up!

hullygully Tue 28-Oct-08 22:22:14

Why is it sexist? What about Sarah Silverman's EMMY award winning vid about fucking Matt Damon? No one calls that sexist. I've had her too, btw. Nice.

unknownrebelbang Tue 28-Oct-08 22:23:07

Can't quite believe that this is the behaviour of a 47 year old and a 33 year old.

onebatmotherofNormanBates Tue 28-Oct-08 22:23:30

<adjusts odd curly white wig and adopts expression of amused disbelief. Like that bloke from the Professionals who is now, suddenly, Judge John Deeds or somesuch>

wintera Tue 28-Oct-08 22:23:31

Oh, I meant littlelapin!!

AitchTwoOh Tue 28-Oct-08 22:26:18

MATT DAMON WAS STANDING BESIDE HER... you idiot. that's why it's different, vastly so.

elliott Tue 28-Oct-08 22:26:22

I'm afraid this is top gear syndrome.

[gawd, I'm getting old, I keep hankering after the Good Old Days when feminism wasn't a dirty word...]

hullygully Tue 28-Oct-08 22:26:39

What's age got to do with it? What about tampon -seeking Prince Charlie et al? Age is immaterial to humour and sex. I would have had Charlie but he was disappointingly disfunctional in the erectile department.

hullygully Tue 28-Oct-08 22:27:43

dysfunctional. Re Matt Damon, the point is it's ok for women to joke about having men but not vv.

onebatmotherofNormanBates Tue 28-Oct-08 22:27:59

"Why is it sexist?"

der. der. der. der.

might be fact that M Damon has consented to his name being used? Might be familiar comedic device of reversing usual social realities to amusing effect? Might be that the rest of the fucking world isn't doing the same thing?

"Nice". Arse.

AitchTwoOh Tue 28-Oct-08 22:28:01

not to mention the fact that jimmy kimmel found it funny. had he been hurt and ashamed it might well have been different.

mabanana Tue 28-Oct-08 22:28:04

Sorry, but what are you talking about? What has Prince Charles got to do with anything? <baffled>

littlelapin Tue 28-Oct-08 22:28:51

I can't believe you can't see the difference between a carefully planned joke about a FAKE sexual relationship with the involvement of BOTH parties, and stupid crash remarks about a woman who was not present to a member of her family hmm

hullygully Tue 28-Oct-08 22:29:18

Yes, nice arse. Tits not bad either.

littlelapin Tue 28-Oct-08 22:29:32


hullygully Tue 28-Oct-08 22:30:42

Ok, AS knew about it. It was all planned. Publicity for all of them. Everybody happy. Vide?

purits Tue 28-Oct-08 22:31:21

I saw Sarah Silverman on JR. It wasn't funny, in fact it bombed excruciatingly.

littlelapin Tue 28-Oct-08 22:31:26

What? hmm

AitchTwoOh Tue 28-Oct-08 22:32:08

i thought she was fantastic, purits. grin

wintera Tue 28-Oct-08 22:34:16

Yeah she got slagged off a bit for her London show too. Although, I think people who were there said it wasn't as bad as it was reported in the papers. Imagine that eh? The papers making a mountain out of a molehill!

onebatmotherofNormanBates Tue 28-Oct-08 22:35:16

I was pulling my punches with 'der'. I have now resolved to adopt 'derbrain' as my response to derbrained posts. Hullygully, you are a derbrain.

For crying out fucking loud - you can't see the difference between comedy that trashes social mores but - crucially - has no victims; and comedy which makes a young woman the laughing stock of a world which still believes that it is wrong for a woman to have sex outside of a committed relationship?

She's been humiliated, for something that shouldn't be considered humiliating, but is. It's all wrong.

hullygully Tue 28-Oct-08 22:35:57

How has she been humiliated?

wintera Tue 28-Oct-08 22:37:30

Funnily enough, Sarah Silverman was actually interviewed by Russell Brand on his radio show a few weeks ago. She couldn't understand his accent I recall.

onebatmotherofNormanBates Tue 28-Oct-08 22:37:37

SS didn't bomb - JR's excruciating light-entertainment i/v of her did.

She was very funny. He was very anxious.

And - in the light of recent events - anxious with good reason.

hullygully Tue 28-Oct-08 22:37:42

Sorry, I meant, how has she been humiliated, double derbrain twice whatever you said etc

littlelapin Tue 28-Oct-08 22:39:59

Apparently she is angry and upset.

Although that message is coming through Max Clifford <despairs>

hullygully Tue 28-Oct-08 22:42:13

Oh yes, terribly angry and upset that her public profile and earning potential has leapt beyond that of the CEO of a shortly to be nationalised bank. Devastated.

wintera Tue 28-Oct-08 22:44:28

Oh christ is Max Clifford involved now is he?? Thats all we friggin need! Any sympathy she may have got from me has evaporated now that HE is involved with her. My husband joked about that very thing yesterday too!

littlelapin Tue 28-Oct-08 22:45:14

Does that justify it then, hullygully?

Saturn74 Tue 28-Oct-08 22:45:42

I don't really know what's going on.
Is that wrong?
<assumes it must be, as there are 147 threads on this subject>>

hullygully Tue 28-Oct-08 22:47:02

Justify smustify. Let s/he who sups with the devil use a very very very long spoon. Unless, of course, it's all agreed in the first place and then everybody gets the no press is bad press prize.

mabanana Tue 28-Oct-08 22:47:15

I hope she does do well out it.
I think this has all been a good thing really it encourages a reappraisal of casual sexism and cruelty. I have stopped watching JR's interviews, even if I am interested in the guest because I was so tired of his childish, sexist sleaze. Like telling Chris Martin to call Gwyneth Paltrow so he (JR) could have sex with her because she (GP) was 'gagging for it'. Tiresome old man.

onebatmotherofNormanBates Tue 28-Oct-08 22:48:45

lol double derbrain
she's been humiliated by the fact that it is considered, by JR, JB, and the rest of society, humiliating to allowed oneself to have been fucked [note passive voice].

I don't know why that is. But it is.

(well actually I do but I won't bore you with it now)

to be dragged, unwilling, into the public eye, is painful, I imagine. Infinitely more so, for one's private sexual life. Trebly infinitely more so, if the world is criticizing you for 'giving it away'. Quadruply so, if the world is saying that you deserve any and all that JS/JB can throw at you, because you did so.

the more I think about it, the more this feels like a figurative rape.

MadamePlatypus Tue 28-Oct-08 22:49:33

I think its irrelevant whether somebody heard the radio show. The facts are that JR and RB made a prank call. They did not get proper permission to play the prank call on the radio and the victim did not find the prank call funny. It should not have been played.

As has been mentioned before, Andrew Sachs is not running for political office and (unusually these days) is famous for his acting, not his private life. He was not fair game. I don't think the Prime Minister needed to comment, but the BBC should not be broadcasting this kind of material.

Whether JR and RB apologise or not, it seems that many Radio 1 listeners thought they were very funny, so its likely that some of us won't have to wait too long for a call like this to come to a phone near us. Hilarious.

hullygully Tue 28-Oct-08 22:50:21

No, it isn't (considered thus by society)and certainly not by the satanic sluts. it's called furthering one's career.

SunshineSmith Tue 28-Oct-08 22:50:24
wintera Tue 28-Oct-08 22:50:47

It was on radio 2

onebatmotherofNormanBates Tue 28-Oct-08 22:50:51

"Oh yes, terribly angry and upset that her public profile and earning potential has leapt beyond that of the CEO of a shortly to be nationalised bank. Devastated."

Perhaps this might be your own response, but you should be wary of imputing it to others.

hullygully Tue 28-Oct-08 22:52:49

If you got up every morning and donned your corset, black eyeliner and blood drinking lip liner, how seriously would you want to be taken? Or would you just want the cash?

AitchTwoOh Tue 28-Oct-08 22:53:55

what is your point, hullygully? that it's a big conspiracy designed to get her career going? that sachs is in on it? what?

cos if not, so what if she turns their behaviour into something useful for her? why shouldn't she?

TheFallenMadonna Tue 28-Oct-08 22:54:09

I have no problem with people being offensive really, or obscene (although am a bit of a prude and might well choose not to watch/listen wink)

But this just seemed unkind. And unnecessary.

I'm not sure it warrants all the sound and fury it has generated, but it was mean-spirited and makes me curl my lip slightly at two people I previously had no strong feelings about.

AitchTwoOh Tue 28-Oct-08 22:54:44

she's only 23, ffs, hullygully.

hullygully Tue 28-Oct-08 22:55:39

Isn't she?

LuLuMacGloo Tue 28-Oct-08 22:57:35

Sorry - haven't had time to read the whole thread but tbh I think the blame lies with the producers.

What we have here is two infantile blokes larking about in a studio. Yes - what they said/did was stupid and offensive but they were just filling 'recording time' - albeit in a really infantile way. The Andrew Sachs stuff was probably just 8 minutes of stuff that they recorded amongst another 50 minutes of nonsense. It wasn't up to them what was actually given the 'go' to be broadcast.

This is not excusing them - it was all in poor taste - but ultimately it probably wasn't any less tasteless than a lot of stuff that is recorded in studios every day (I speak as one who knows!). The difference is that it never should have been broadcast, and the producers should immediately have contacted Andrew Sachs and apologised for the 'prank' thereby short cutting any further action on his part.

hullygully Tue 28-Oct-08 22:57:35

Only 23. And yet we send children to prison. Imagine.

wintera Tue 28-Oct-08 22:59:29

How on earth can it be irrelevant that a lot of people are commenting on something they haven't even listened to? If you were commenting on a tv show I would have expected you to watch the fucking thing first!

onebatmotherofNormanBates Tue 28-Oct-08 23:00:43

I don't think her job/subsequent behaviour has anything to do with anything.

This situation has been forced upon her.

Or are you saying that only certain women deserve to have their private lives kept private, and others give up all rights to.. well, to anything, because they don't conform to our idea of a Good Woman.

Anyone who is can't believe that we are yet again rehearsing Basic Fucking Human Rights/ Feminism Module (GSCE and Under) - I apologize.

NightOfTheLivingThread Tue 28-Oct-08 23:01:00

Telling my grandfather in front of an audience of millions that I'd had sex with Russell Brand is off the scale humiliation-wise. Like the very worst kind of embarrassment dream.

But also, I feel humiliated as a radio listener that this crap can be dished out to me as entertainment. Worse even than the casual misogyny is the idea that the BBC expects me to lap up this kind of giggling dysentery.

onebatmotherofNormanBates Tue 28-Oct-08 23:02:25

Anyone who (strike "is") can't believe.. etc

hullygully Tue 28-Oct-08 23:05:52

my grandfather had sex with RB and was v proud of it. IT IS ALL TOO SILLY. They all want the publicity and here they are getting it. I'm off to bed, sadly not with RB, my grandfather or the lovely satanic sluts. Enjoy your outrage - I'm sure they are.

onebatmotherofNormanBates Tue 28-Oct-08 23:06:13

wintera - we comment on many injustices without having witnessed them (though I have, in this case, heard the broadcast).

Yours is the last resort of the argument-bereft.

onebatmotherofNormanBates Tue 28-Oct-08 23:08:34

hullygully - I don't give a toss whether they are enjoying my outrage or not. Because they are derbrains.

Thinking things through isn't necessarily silly, you know.

skyatnight Tue 28-Oct-08 23:30:28

Sorry, haven't the thread because there are too many posts.

Both of these 'entertainers' have rare moments of genius but only moments; the rest is usually unfunny rubbish and, at worst, offensive. They are both very clever (and very ugly) but it is often hard to appreciate this with all the shit they talk. The way that they settle for lewdness when they could be interesting.

Parki was right when he said that JR did a good interview of Faye Dunaway. This was because he did it straight, was respectful towards Ms Dunaway and he knows his stuff when it comes to films. But, given his usual performances, JR is definitely not worth the money he is paid. The BBC must be mad. He irritates me. And I can't stand RB's crudeness either. 'Ball-bags'. His voice makes me think of venereal disease. But he can be funny and original and thought-provoking at times. They both can.

The comments re. Andrew Sachs gd were offensive, in poor taste, hurtful on a personal level to Andrew Sachs. I can't imagine who would find the 'prank' funny. Unchivalrous. Etc., etc..

Disgusted and offended of Mumsnetland.

dittany Tue 28-Oct-08 23:48:07

Even if it was a publicity stunt, it's pathetic that the BBC would broadcast something like that.

DaddyCool Wed 29-Oct-08 06:34:00

I just hate prank phone calls. Why do radio presenters still think they are funny. I hate them hate them hate them. Every time a prank phone call is played on whatever radio station I'm listening to, i switch over to something else. It ruins the show.

I listen to a morning show on a local Birmingham heavy rock station and everything goes fine until the guy decides he's going to call some caterers in Poland and ask for a cake in the shape of Bruce Forsyth's head or something equally unfunny. The polish guy is confused and doesn't get it and the DJ's laugh hysterically at him like it's the funniest thing in world and that he's a complete idiot. pathetic.

Upwind Wed 29-Oct-08 06:43:45

Mabanana summed it up:

"I think there is a pent up feeling that people are tired of casual rudeness and cruelty, of obscene abuse passing for humour, of the grotesque lad culture even in middleaged men and general unkindness - and this has hit a nerve."

I don't think that RB will do badly out of this. It has given his show more publicity and his puerile, juvenile audience won't care. He is young enough to get away with lewdness.

JR is more contrite because his mainstream audience plainly do care. This draws everyone's attention to the fact that as he has become middle-aged, he has been increasingly sleazy and no commercial broadcaster would pay a fraction of the BBC's 18 million. Even if they don't fire him, the BBC would find it difficult to renew his contract on the same terms or better. The joke is on him, and Andrew Sachs knows it grin

ChloeandAlfie Wed 29-Oct-08 07:09:20

I also agree with Mabanana.

RB has flashes of brilliance, but is too impressed with himself to be funny most of the time. JR has become a characture of himself and now, all-too-often, goes way over the top. I've stopped watching his show, despite the calliber of guests, because it's just too cringy.

I'm all for pushing boundaries when it comes to comedy but, I wouldn't even class this as comedy.... hmm

MadamePlatypus Wed 29-Oct-08 07:26:02

"How on earth can it be irrelevant that a lot of people are commenting on something they haven't even listened to?"

Because in an age of cyber bullying prank calls are in dubious taste anyway, and any practical joke/prank call is wrong if not done with the co-operation of the victim. This is true if the perpetrator is Jonathan Ross, Jeremy Beadle, or that child in your daughter's class who has a nasty sense of humour and too much time on their hands.

It wouldn't matter if JR and RB had phoned Andrew Sach's answerphone and recited the alphabet or tryed to sell him double glazing. Without his approval it was an invasion of privacy and should not have been broadcast.

Upwind Wed 29-Oct-08 08:27:05

Why the hell does the BBC need to set up a formal week-long enquiry to establish how the show was given the go ahead? hmm Surely, they should know whose job it was to sign off that show? In any functioning organisation it shouldn't take more than a quick phone call to establish this. That person should obviously be held accountable. And an explanation is needed as to why Sachs' complaint was ignored and an apology was so slow in coming.

Georgina Baillie has called for both Ross and Brand to be sacked:

"Talking about her grandfather, she said: “We’re very close and I can’t tell you how much it hurts to know they were so unkind to such a sweet person. They should at least pay for what they’ve done with their jobs.”

She admitted that she had slept with Brand three times in late 2006 and that she had not seen him since early this year. “My grandfather is really upset,” she told The Sun. “I will be speaking to him to ask whether we should complain to the police and we’ll be making the decision as a family.” " ce

wintera Wed 29-Oct-08 08:35:26

Quote - and his puerile, juvenile audience won't care

I have been listening to both Jonathan Ross and Russell Brand for a number of years now. I am a 34 year old housewife and full time Mum. I listen to Jonathan Ross on a Sat morn when I am cleaning my house. (Hardly rock and roll!! grin ) The same with Russell Brand's podcasts. I am not puerile of juvenile.

Upwind Wed 29-Oct-08 08:41:48

Wintera, if you say so wink

Though I am far from convinced that household chores make peurility impossible.

wintera Wed 29-Oct-08 08:48:22

Yes, quite right. Maybe I am puerile and juvenile! Wow, I've just had an epiphany. wink grin

ScottishMummy Wed 29-Oct-08 09:12:33

but she did sleep with RB,so he made a factually correct but offensive statement

i think georgina is milking this publicity

feel sad her granfather is upset

but georgina has certainly composed herself enough to have her agent max clifford on board to sell her story.i fully expect to see her in a basque in the News of the world going on she feels humiliated

onebatmotherofNormanBates Wed 29-Oct-08 09:20:44

That makes no odds, SM. She can make of this situation what she will. But she was not given the opportunity to consent to it, for which RB and JR should be ashamed.

morningpaper Wed 29-Oct-08 09:23:58

This outrage is utter nonsense

People are offended by every single television programme that is aired - there is ALWAYS someone upset or offended, especially by comedy

People are only outraged by this because they hate Ross and Brand's success. Any of their shows features stuff that is just as edgy as this - that's the nature of their work. That's why they are both incredibly rich and successful and why millions of people tune into their shows.

TheFallenMadonna Wed 29-Oct-08 09:26:15

Is this "edgy"?

onebatmotherofNormanBates Wed 29-Oct-08 09:41:13

People are only outraged by this because they hate Ross and Brand's success

I disagree MP. I've found both of them very funny in the past, but JR in particular has allowed his underlying misogyny to blossom in recent years, and I've found him offensive on numerous occasions.

I think the 'offended by success' line is a rather trite (but effective) way of shutting down reasonable dissent, a bit like 'political correctness gone mad'.

AitchTwoOh Wed 29-Oct-08 09:49:15

plenty of people on here are fans but think this is shitty, mp. me, for example.

PuzzleRocks Wed 29-Oct-08 09:52:38

I have been to see RB in the past and on many occassions have been in tears watching him. This, however, is just not funny.
JR was funny once, now he is just tired.

MadamePlatypus Wed 29-Oct-08 09:52:39

"People are offended by every single television programme that is aired - there is ALWAYS someone upset or offended, especially by comedy"

Its not the offensive stuff on television or radio that annoys me its the offensive stuff left on somebody's answering machine.

Upwind Wed 29-Oct-08 10:04:14

Should the BBC be airing shows that the majority of licence-holders would find offensive?

Marina Wed 29-Oct-08 10:04:32

I like Jonathan Ross as a rule too Aitch. Yes I'm a bit hmm about the huge sums he earns but not really to the extent that I "hate his success" and therefore him.

NightOfTheLivingThread Wed 29-Oct-08 10:06:21

I agree Madame P.

I feel really embarrassed that this mild and benign and cultured 78-year-old man has this stuff on his answerphone.

And to MP, part of the problem is precisely that JR and RB aren't edgy, unless knocking on a doorbell and running away is edgy too.

The only broadcast hoaxing that ever seemed worth doing was Chris Morris's in Brass Eye and the like. He was 'edgy' because he challenged taboos in ways that made us think. He was clever and satirical.

But even his hoaxes made me feel so awkward I wanted to switch off.

NightOfTheLivingThread Wed 29-Oct-08 10:07:58

Actually, 'knocking on a doorbell' is kind of edgy, or at least unusual.blush

TskullsScreaming Wed 29-Oct-08 10:16:22

I'm a big fan of RB and not easily offended by his comedy at all. I think there is a place for edgy raw comedy, but this was misjudged and cruel of him. sad

JR I just don't really appreciate anymore. He makes me cringe with his fawning, juvenile mateyness, but he does have interesting guests and bands on his show, so that's why I often watch.

RB and JR were basically doing what the BBC took them on to do. It is the bosses there who chose to air this - it didn't go out live - and they who should pay with their jobs.

Yes, RB and JR should be punished certainly. A pay cut springs to mind. That'd wipe the smirk off JR's face. But those in charge of how our money is spent have an awful lot to answer for too and not just for this.

But they are an arrogant bunch who are not sorry about this. If only one or two people had complained, Andrew Sachs and his granddaughter would have got short shrift from them in terms of any 'apology'. They are just sorry it all blew up in their faces.

AitchTwoOh Wed 29-Oct-08 10:18:22

i have no problem with his money at all, actually. i know people who've worked alongside him and his output and commitment are phenomenal, i hear. plus, i'm sure he could make that money if he was released to do endorsements etc on commercial telly. or he could go to america, he's well regarded there by the celebs so they'd likely support a show he did.

TskullsScreaming Wed 29-Oct-08 10:25:01

I'm not sure the US would tolerate a stunt like this though. Aren't they quite conservative about sexual innuendo, privacy etc? More so than here anyway.

AitchTwoOh Wed 29-Oct-08 10:28:17

howard stern. i think ross could have been the aceptable face of that, with his cheeky cockney thing, and bought viewers to a subs network with his connections to the celebs over here.

littlelapin Wed 29-Oct-08 10:30:34

Sweeping generalisation there, MP. I quite like JR on the radio, and think RB is actually an extremely intelligent man under all that hair wink. Doesn't mean this wasn't utterly twattish behaviour.

ShinyPinkPumpkin Wed 29-Oct-08 10:34:38

Here is the full recording of what they did

Shockingly horrible thing to do to a 78 year old man in my opinion

For anyone who can't bear to listen to the entire 11-something minutes they called him 4 times, leaving messages on his answerphone stating several times that Russell Brand had slept with Andrew's Granddaughter. They kept calling leaving messages in an attempt to fill up the tape apparently.

Extremely childish and not all that funny.

Upwind Wed 29-Oct-08 10:34:48

Aitch, don't you think that if Ross had been offered more, he would have taken it? I don't think his constant innuendo would be acceptable for mainstream US, I've lived there and it is really not tolerated the way it is here. I also think that most of his audience would keep watching on Friday nights if he was replaced, and the celebs do the show for the publicity of a large audience rather than him. It is in no way obvious to me that they enjoy his increasingly lewd remarks.

IIRC, Ross has boasted that he is worth 1000 BBC journalists. That would truly mean he has incredible output and commitment grin

Upwind Wed 29-Oct-08 10:37:58

Found it

"In December 2007, Ross claimed he was worth "1,000 BBC journalists". He's also worth around 720 nurses, 150 hospital consultants, and at least 18,000 sight-saving operations in Africa. "

TskullsScreaming Wed 29-Oct-08 10:41:07

I agree with you Upwind. If he was replaced on the show but the calibre of guests remained, I'm sure people would still watch.

Other shows continue without the original presenters.

AitchTwoOh Wed 29-Oct-08 10:47:00

i'm not convinced. i think JR by and large is great at what he does, don't know who's as good in this country. any suggestions? frank skinner was oddly good as an interviewer, i thought, occasionally pierced the veneer. apart from him...

and i'm not saying ross is suitable for mainstream america (although he could be if he wanted to, he's not a stupid man), i said subscription network. and i don't know if he would go just for the money, i believe he values security after his career doldrums of the past. probably why he's shitting it now.

littlelapin Wed 29-Oct-08 10:48:12

I like JR on the radio but am not keen on the chatshow - it's too "me me me". Sometimes it's hilarious, but other times it's too much about him and not the guests.

TskullsScreaming Wed 29-Oct-08 10:50:46

Is JR so good as an interviewer though? His guests are very often just a prop for him I find.

AitchTwoOh Wed 29-Oct-08 10:55:40

no, i don't think he's a good intervewer, far too all about jonny at the moment. that's not the point though... who's better?

rebelmum1 Wed 29-Oct-08 10:55:49

I think Ross is grossly overpaid and get annoyed too whenever I hear him, he just aint worth it. Russel Brand's career is based on being riske, he's just silly and wouldn't expect more really. The problem is the producers who aired it but they did run it by sachs first.

TskullsScreaming Wed 29-Oct-08 10:56:31

Btw though good point Aitch about Frank Skinner. He was very good I thought. Why isn't he on TV anymore? V talented chap imo.

rebelmum1 Wed 29-Oct-08 10:57:42

I can't believe that there isn't up and coming talent that is better than Ross. I could happily give his broadcasting a swerve.

rebelmum1 Wed 29-Oct-08 10:58:27

there must be thousands of people better than him..

Upwind Wed 29-Oct-08 10:59:40

Some of the contributors to shows like "mock the week" or "have I got news for you" would be well able to take on that kind of role, it will be amusing to see how they cover the story.

I really do believe that Ross has just killed his own career - I've heard people say about him that is is "amazing how he gets away with saying things like that, nobody else could". Those malicious calls have just killed off that goodwill he has always enjoyed. Now his lascivious remarks will be tolerated less well, and that is his trademark.

rebelmum1 Wed 29-Oct-08 11:02:19

I wondered what his trademark was I find him quite banal and irritating to be honest, he is very me me me, usually the people he interviews don't get a word in..

littlelapin Wed 29-Oct-08 11:02:50

I'm not entirely sure we need comments by Brown and Cameron though hmm

rebelmum1 Wed 29-Oct-08 11:03:26

i think they are just keen for the diversion!

rebelmum1 Wed 29-Oct-08 11:03:45

look people worse than us!

Upwind Wed 29-Oct-08 11:04:14

Agree LL,

Brown and Cameron should have bigger things to worry about, especially now. This story is not really that important!

Habbibu Wed 29-Oct-08 11:05:48

Oh, yes, upwind - I'd watch if Dara O'Brian did it. he's very clever and very funny without being a twat. JR I find either sychophantic, lecherous or self-absorbed. Often all 3 together...

littlelapin Wed 29-Oct-08 11:09:58

I love Dara grin

mehgalegs Wed 29-Oct-08 11:11:09

I have skimmed the thread (I am not supposed to be here).

I think the whole thing was pretty distatseful but my goodness what a hooha.

Slightly dissappointed to see Andrew sach's grandaughter has gone to The Sun, I smell Max Clifford. Just seems a bit undignified. i think I'd just keep my head down (not that I'd shag RB in the first place)

TskullsScreaming Wed 29-Oct-08 11:11:27

Or Philip Schofield winkgrin

morningpaper Wed 29-Oct-08 11:11:33

Hmm a lot of the comments refer to JR's SALARY, which I suspect is the real point behind a lot of the criticism

FGS it wasn't Terry Wogan that made the calls, it was Ross and Brand

The main moral of the story is (1) not to sleep with Russell Brand (can't believe any woman needs to be told that TBH) (2) if you do, not to brag that you are the granddaughter of a British comedy legend.

AitchTwoOh Wed 29-Oct-08 11:12:07

i knew dara at uni. lovely chap.

morningpaper Wed 29-Oct-08 11:12:10

> Slightly dissappointed to see Andrew sach's grandaughter has gone to The Sun, I smell Max Clifford.

She went to Max Clifford. Max Clifford went to the Sun.

Habbibu Wed 29-Oct-08 11:12:21

Indeed. And while I don't think £18M (or whatever it is) is frankly necessary for anyone, I'd begrudge Dara a lot less than JR...

morningpaper Wed 29-Oct-08 11:13:45

Dara O'Brien is lovely, but he is liked by about 20 middle aged people, whereas Ross and Brand, whether we like them or not, are enormously popular

Habbibu Wed 29-Oct-08 11:14:01

MP, that's running awfully close to the "it was the woman's fault" argument. It was a shitty thing they did, and people are pissed off with the salary thing anyway, I think.

mehgalegs Wed 29-Oct-08 11:14:37

RE; The Sun?max Clifford thing So I guess she'll make money from it, which IMO doesn't show a lot of respect to her grandfather who is supposedly very upset.

Habbibu Wed 29-Oct-08 11:14:41

Dara was at your uni, Aitch? And therefore mine?!!! When?? What?

AitchTwoOh Wed 29-Oct-08 11:15:44

nah, i was aa debater... lol, travelleda a bit.

TskullsScreaming Wed 29-Oct-08 11:16:15

Why isn't his salary a relevant point though MP?

mehgalegs Wed 29-Oct-08 11:16:19

I am not blaming the woman at all, RB and JR did a shitty thing but I am dissapointed that she appears to be coming down to their level by seeking publicity rather than doing the dignified (again IMO) thing of rising above it.

mehgalegs Wed 29-Oct-08 11:16:47

My spelling is shite today, sorry,

morningpaper Wed 29-Oct-08 11:17:33

I am flabberghasted that any woman would sleep with Brand

This is a man who bragged in his autobiography about having sex with prostitutes that he wouldn't pay, and having sex with women who, when they asked him to give them an orgasm, threw them out of his house completely naked

He's hardly Mr Darcy is he?

Upwind Wed 29-Oct-08 11:17:42

MP - she slept with him in 2006, so she can only have been 20 or 21. Did you never do anything stupid at that age?

The comments about JR's salary are fair game given that we are paying it. I am certain that this had involved one of the commercial radio stations there would have been none of the furore and nobody would care how much he was paid or whether he kept his job.

AitchTwoOh Wed 29-Oct-08 11:18:07

she's 23 ad a satanic slut... why shouldn't she take advantage?

rebelmum1 Wed 29-Oct-08 11:18:10

His salary is a perfectly relevant point, we are paying him to do this..

morningpaper Wed 29-Oct-08 11:19:12

Can I just say that if anyone is considering it: DO NOT SLEEP WITH RUSSELL BRAND

morningpaper Wed 29-Oct-08 11:19:45


rebelmum1 Wed 29-Oct-08 11:20:11

perhaps russel should ring everyones grandad whose grandaughter he has slept with, don't think it would be long before he got lynched ..

morningpaper Wed 29-Oct-08 11:20:31

> she's 23 ad a satanic slut

I do like the sound of it but what does that MEAN?

Habbibu Wed 29-Oct-08 11:21:15

"He's hardly Mr Darcy is he?" well, no, he's an arse (allegedly...), but that'll all the more reason he doesn't need public funding to display his arsiness...

rebelmum1 Wed 29-Oct-08 11:21:27

oh god I'll try not to ..

morningpaper Wed 29-Oct-08 11:21:56

I do not understand the appeal of Russell Brand in the slightest

But he does seem very popular

Habbibu Wed 29-Oct-08 11:22:29

terry much more of a gent, mp. Though you shouldn't sleep with him as he is happily married...

rebelmum1 Wed 29-Oct-08 11:22:41

he's relatively amusing but not exactly rip-roaring ..

morningpaper Wed 29-Oct-08 11:23:28

If I had to chose, it would be Terry

rebelmum1 Wed 29-Oct-08 11:23:31

How can you drag poor Terry into this the man's a diamond and worth everypenny of his 800 thou

AitchTwoOh Wed 29-Oct-08 11:23:58

she's young and is part of a goth erotic dance group, beatiful and had aspirations to act. she's attention-seeking, no doubt, and now that this attention has been forced on her then i say go for it, fill yer boots georgie.

am really shocked that you think that she somehow brought this on herself, mp.

TskullsScreaming Wed 29-Oct-08 11:24:42

There's me wondering why Frank Skinner isn't on telly anymore and I've just read he's supposed to be on JR's show on Friday now grin.

morningpaper Wed 29-Oct-08 11:24:58

> am really shocked that you think that she somehow brought this on herself, mp.

where have I said that?

rebelmum1 Wed 29-Oct-08 11:24:58

I can't imagine anyone above 20 being impressed by Brand

rebelmum1 Wed 29-Oct-08 11:25:39

he was on a very funny have i got news for you the other night

rebelmum1 Wed 29-Oct-08 11:25:55

skinner i mean ..

littlelapin Wed 29-Oct-08 11:25:56

Oi are you calling me middle-aged? bitch!


Upwind Wed 29-Oct-08 11:26:56

IIRC 2006 was before Russell Brand's book came out, GB might reasonably have misjudged his character, especially since she was barely out of her teens.

morningpaper Wed 29-Oct-08 11:29:35

lol Russell Brand was EXTREMELY FAMOUS in 2006 - he was presenting on MTV back in 2000, she would have known exactly who he was - but that's irrelevant

AitchTwoOh Wed 29-Oct-08 11:29:44