I am disgusted at the Madeleine McCann/Shrek debate!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have joined this site solely to remind all you thoughtless, forgetful, selfish ba#@ards that Madeleine McCann is missing!!!!!!!! I cannot understand how anyone can sit with their arms around their own children, in the comfort of a cinema whilst feeding their children popcorn and Coke that there are lots of mothers in this world who cannot do this. Their children have been taken from them and I wonder if any of you had the money or the resources available to them, I wonder if you would have campaigned this long or this hard for their daughters return. I wish the McCanns every success and only wish I could physically find their daughter for them. I am taking my 6 kids to see Shrek tomorrow and I hope my cinema is still showing the Madeleine film. I hope the publicity generated stays in your faces for a long time to come. Tell me, if she passed in front of you down at the shops or at the park could any of you be bothered to actually tell someone. Or are you all just to happy in the knowledge that its not one of your children. There but for the grace of God............
I ask again, WTF is the point of this advert? Surely all the publicity would simply incline criminal kidnappers to either dump the living child somewhere and run or, more likely, to dispose of the body somewhere and hope it's not found. Cases like this are rare, they are also rarely solvable (and not, by any stretch of the imagination, going to be solved by a lot of squealing brain donors pouncing on frightened blonde toddlers in Morrisons).
Am i in the right place? Sky News sent me?
Right, you snivelling, lefty, shandy bedwetters!! You should all be ASHAMED!!!!!!!My kids got CRIMEWATCH the edited highlights for xmas this year, no flamin pingu for them!!!!
I care so much for the McCanns that i'm prepared to totally freak the living shite out of my children!!!!!!
If they're not deeply disturbed and witnessing my outbursts of wall pounding grief then I AINT DOING MY JOB PROPER!!!!
Always rains in time for the school run.
So close...ooh, I think I can hear her at the door...quick!
A thread is locked at 1000 isn't it?
must go and change - will be back in a mo......
fullyqualifiedpsychiatrist on Thu 05-Jul-07 14:23:40
Ah, I see. Very interesting (makes notes)
stop it you are making me laugh now haha!
Well, I can't do this alone. I have work to do (ahem)
Stop twiddling, start posting. Only about 40 to go!
Oh yes.Twiddling our thumbs. Waiting for Hayche to come back.
What shall I lead with? The paranoia? Obsession? Or the masochism? Masochism always plays well at the big conferences, I find.
wannabe I was doing as she did. Saying back to her something she did not say as she has done countless times in this thread and I won't apologise for it.
I kept to the original arguement also - the ad in the cinema. I did not bring the McCanns rights or wrongs into it as you did. Apologise for that!
and everyone else, stop making me laugh when I am trying to be dignified
But she'll make an interesting case for my next conference <brightens>
Haychee fair play to you, you have stood your ground. As others have said, take a look around and maybe join in some less controversial threads. We are all just trying to do our best for our children.
(I am scared of Lulumama telling me off, can you tell)
Poor thing is totally obsessed! <flicks through textbook to letter 'O'>
I don't think the injection worked, Partly.
And she's resistant to therapy.
She won't even tell me about her childhood.
Quick. Post like mad and get to 1000 before she gets back.
I think Haychee's staying power is marvellous. I expect she'll return from the school run with her second wind. After she's had a little sniffle about a stranger who has the same hair colour as herself.
ey wait a minute.
I think getting upset over a child you don't know in front of one's children is worrying, but comments such as "you don't care that your children are damaged" verges on personal attack and is uncalled for.
Yes Haychee has wound some people up but some of the latest responses are out of order and are worthy of apology.
There's no need to get so personal.
oh dear! you are going to a whole new dimention now haychee. 'loony bin' is the lowest of the low. stupid, silly little person.
haychee why don't you try another thread. This really isn't a good thread for you still to be on (I do admire your staying power though). TBH it isn't even making a good debate/reading any more. Have a look at active convos maybe something will catch your eye. Good luck, hope you carry on Mning.
off to collect little darlings from school.
will have to contiue this later!
Why would you want to let out your dishonest little emotions Haychee? That pious pretence of care when it's all about you. Why should anyone admire you for it? Are you auditioning for Oprah Winfrey?
oh denial and projection, sad for you.
I won't defend myself to an idiot like you. You have persistantly ignored what others have been saying on this thread - now you know how it feels.
Don't bullshit a bullshitter, you won't win
I can do two things fantastically - the first only my dp knows and the second is...kill a thread
Which other offensive terms do you like to use? Perhaps you could give us a list.
and look on the bright side haychee - if you do hang around, it won't take people forever to get to recogonise your name!
It's distressing for everyone when they struggle like this
now just relax while my colleague gives you a nice injection to calm you down
Do i honestly care if "loony bin" is not politically correct - NO i do not give 2 hoots! The point is she should be careful with not letting out any emotion. Dont our psychs agree?
Keep on trucking Haychee. Don't ever stop. Put those fingers in those ears,head down and on we go.
But i like it here its so warm and refreshing to be treated like a lepor (?spelling) because i shed a tear for madeleine. And because i am happy for the news that there is backlash against the removal of the madeleine ad from the cinema. Im glad so many have they same opinion as me.
Yes, you have some stamina, haychee.
"Loony bin" is not an appropriate term and hugely offensive to a lot of people.
Gosh yes. Haychee is tough. A stubborn refusal to hear a word is always an asset in life.
Mumnset is wonderful haychee. Honest is it. Does help to have a thick skin sometimes. But you've more than held your own here so I think you'll be OK !
<Tooty breaks up her bar of dairy milk and heads off towards the microwave>
Haychee - all newcomers should present themselves to the following debates:
- should mothers work outside the home?
- is it child abuse to pierce children's ears?
- fruitshoots - tasty or the work of the devil?
You are utterly heartless and obviously a person that maintains a stiff upper lip. Fair play to you! I think you will be needing that straight jacket yourself with all those pent up emotions locked away inside yourself. Your poor children, who will they look to when you are in the loony bin?
Melt two or three biggish squares of chocolate in the microwave, then mix with greek yoghurt (total best IMO) to make a creamy chocolate dip. Then peel, core and slice a pear per child to dip in the sauce. My children polished off a pear each like this last night.
Is that what a giant squid does?
Why don't you come on to some of the other threads, Haychee?
This one's just going round in tight little circles (like all the other MM threads--take a look in the archive).
You never know, you might like mumsnet after all.
I think haychee is self-medicating anyway so be careful what you prescribe.
<<runs off to get the straight-jacket....it won't be long now>>
only 81 - hurrah - off to a meeting expect to see this unedifying thread stuffed full when I get back [stern emoticon]
fraid not fully. i gave all the coke to my dc's before they went to school!
I'm thinking we might need strong drugs here Partly. Got any?
(Shelley - also, if you wrap things like carrot sticks / celery etc up like sweets (in tin-foil or coloured paper) you might find that works too)
(and am posting here to bump the total!)
A very severe case of paranoia. Very resistant to treatment, I believe.
haychee mind you bp my love...fully you are not attending to this patient very well at all! come hither!
Thank you for your advise, I will do that. Can I ask what is a troll?
less than 100 posts to go til lockdown.. me is thinking the thread might not be an active convo by the time Lulumama returns...
What do you want to be welcomed for? It's a message board, not a house party.
its ok to be a newcommer as long as you dont disagree with anything anybody else says.
I think the welcome you get depends a very great deal on how you introduce yourself and your first few posts - just as it would in any RL meeting place
Right, now that the psychiatrists are here, time for me to reclasp nork and get outta here!
Gotta do the school run, and I really really do not want to end up on lulumamas naughty step (shudder)
tell you what fully, i will help the poor lo's while you take the more tragic case ok?
Ah, I see. Very interesting (makes notes)
try offering little fruit salads to pick at and the same with veg, little pieces seem more appealing and more inviting than big bits
Newcommers are most definitely not welcome as i have found out. Watch your spelling as you will be viscously attacked for any errors. Also dont let them know that you show any distress to your kids at any time.
This is not a warm welcoming place beleive me!
shelly2kids i joined yesterday and people have been lovely to me
Now Haychee, when you were rolling on the floor and sobbing, how did you feel?
Take another tissue if you need one.
NKF is v clever. I agree with everything she says - spot on re emotional dishonesty.
Shelly, you're on the wrong thread, there are lots of different topics on this site .
Try starting a new thread here to ask about help with your toddler's diet and welcome to Mn.
this is becoming most unedifiying for all concerned now...and starting to lean towards personal attack....please? enough?
am going to do the school run now, and if you are still here when i get back, you'll all be on the naughty step !
Yes, hide in pasta sauce. Smoothies good for fruit haters.
shelly, welcome, start a thread about the vegetables, you'll get plenty of advice!
We love newcomers who don't come here to insult us and abuse our parenting choices!
(Goes back to take the pledge again)
Why is it so wrong to show emotion.
Such a hard hearted world it is when a sensitive soul like me is pilloried by etc...
shelly welcome to you all newcomers are welcome...trolls are not.
shelly2kids, we love newcomers. But not the type of newcomers that come on here following a piece on Sky or other news, and then proceed to give us a moutful without knowing all the facts.
Re the veg - puree it and hide it in pasta sauces - works for me
You think it's ok that your children are damaged?
Your out of order and totally incorrect. Parading my emotion - honestly!
For me, the problem is that you are emotionally dishonest. You pretend concern for another child as an excuse to display your feelings about your own.
Do you reckon I could find a few contenders for my next series on here?
<<<takes out note pad and scribbles>>> keep going haychee my love
Oh thank you partly qualified! I think we need a whole team in here, frankly. This is a very severe case. One of the worst I've ever seen. It might take months.
Send out for more tissues, and make it urgent.
Tell us more about these morbid, paranoid thoughts you've been having, dear.
I'm going to fetch my tiny violin and play soft background music whilst fully and partly help you pet.
may i again, respectfully suggest, you step away, please? for your own good?
And all this concern for the campaign! It's just you again. If it were my child bleat bleat. She looks so like my daughter wail wail. Yuk!
I think I've come onto the wrong website. I only wanted to see how I could maybe, get my 3 year old, to eat more veg.
Can anyone come on here, or do you have to be a member for a long time?
Just I've quickly browsed through this and it seems people don't like newcomers.
Am I wrong in thinking this?
Why do all insist on attacking me? I shed a tear for a poor little girl and this has been twisted to portey that i actually threw myself on the ground wailing uncontrollably. I think you are all out for a row and not a discussion.
I think its very sad of you all to be this bitchy towards me. Everyone handles their emotion differently, i shed a taer, so what! My kids are fine with that and not at all damaged. I explained to them why i was upset and they can understand. What is the problem?
Whereas in fact you're just parading your own emotions. That isn't sensitivity. That's just vanity.
oh Thank god. Please please psych can you help this poor being?
Phew, reinforcements are here!!
(takes off fullyqualifiedpsychiatrist hat)
i can help too
And then you have the nerve to say that other people aren't as kind hearted as you.
And you can have a piece of my chocolate (only one though)
Now, I hear you've been bawling and rolling on the ground in grief. You can confide in me.
ghoul - because you seem to take pleasure in other peoples' tragedies, making them your own.
Look at me, MMC looks like my dd, I have a right to cry.
Just lie down on this nice couch. I've got an extra big box of tissues for you here.
Alright, keep your hair on, mea cupla and all that, but if you managed to spell "wasn't" correctly in the first place rather than "want" I might not have misread it!
(dons fullyqualifiedpsychiatrist hat)
haychee, for the sake of your own mental wellbeing, the the childhood of your children, you need to learn to distance yourself.
oh poor pet, I missed the throwing herself on the ground bit. HOW SAD. poor poor haychee
AbRoller - you are such a card. I am honking with laughter.
Oh and I once worked with someone who had to take 2 days off work with stress when some Formula 1 car blew up while being refuelled live on TV. I blame the parents.
Yes but it wasn't Madeleine. She was just the trigger for your own emotions.
Help, I don't know how to name change - was going to appear as fullyqualifiedpsychiatrist...
But honestly, I think the bawling and throwing yourself on the ground sobbing was a bit OTT. Poor little kids.
oh all agressive now. It's ok dear, calm down. We're here to help you.
Yes i was crying for the fact that it could of been my own daughter and how her image makes it familiar and therefore very upsetting
First I thought you were making a point, Haychee. Then I thought you were a troll. Now I see you're a ghoul.
we need a fullyqualifiedpsychiatrist to help <<<where are you>>>
But she was right! I mean, that ball pit, it's infested with kidnappers. Infested I tell you!
haychee - she looks like my dd too. and like my friends dd. but she is not ours. We do not know her. It is not our tragedy. Have sympathy by all means, but to cry?
Competitve grief is all I can say!
I remember the silent crier in the gym. Seemed odd then, still does.
Oh the poor little thing - and you bawled in her face
DAISY FECKING MOO
I DID NOT SAY I WAS BAWLING UNCONTROLLABLY! LOOK BACK OR SHUT YOUR TRAP! I wrote; "i was not bawling uncontrollably"
CAN YOU READ?
this thread has been like a rollercoaster of emotions1 I am liking the new funny tone a lot
Last week I was at soft play and a mum was telling her 2 dc's that they needed to hold hands while in the soft play area, not let go, and not talk to anyone. how can you go down a curly slide while holding hands with a sibling??? Madness I tell you.
thats my little contribution to reaching 1000
Dairy milk was in the fridge until yesterday evening. I was hiding it from dh and forgot I'd put it in here.
You weren't crying about Madeleine. You were crying about you and what it might be like to lose your daughter who likes like Madeleine.
aloha, you are right actually, at the right time of the month a silent tear may escape. But not about MMC. Awful as it may be, her case has angered me more than anything.
Why? what is wrong with shedding a tear? something awful has happened that most of us find sad. How can it possibly be insulting? I can absolutely understand that others may have terrible situations in their own lives and how to cope with that is just a nightmare. But why is it wrong to have cried about madeleine? She is so much like my daughter! Same age similar looks. It is very upsetting for me. I think its wrong not to have shed a tear or two.
Oh but aloha, you owe it to your children to make them watch it. There's no use pretending that blah blah blah... zzzzzzz......
Careful you don't trip over as you backtrack haychee - you said you were bawling uncontrollably, now it's a single tear down your cheek.
Isn't there a fully qualified psychiatrist who can help?
It reminds me - back in the early full on days of MM furore - someone wrote: "every day on the stepper at the gym I cry silently." Which is funny in so many ways. I've never forgotten it.
TF - is the bar of dairy milk well preserved, or has it gone all soft with the odd staple embedded in it??
I sob like anything if I accidentally watch any of those films on Children in Need with babies being literally eaten alive by rats and so forth. But I don't do it in front of my children.
someone has just told me haychee has had a breakdown is this true?
<<makes a quick dash to the local shop for more tissues for haychee>>
poor bloody emotional wreck. I AM SO SAD FOR YOU.
Yup, sorry! Have let go of my nork (which I only clasped for the first time this morning)
It is lunchtime, and it is grey and cold outside.
Nothing else to do...
I shed a tear or two for Madeleine, but in bed well away from my children. I don't see what good it would do for them to see me upset about her.
My Mother in Law is dying in a Spanish hospital at the moment, having fought bravely for 18 months against cancer. DH is on standby to jump on a plane and we are in the middle of moving house. We are both obviously very upset and finding this incredibly stressful. The time will come when the children will see how upset we are. But that is so different, she is a part of our lives and it affects all of us in a way that was has happened to Madeleine just doesn't.
Ooh, just found a bar of dairy milk in my drawer.
<offers it around>
Are you all strill on about this, you bunch of fruit loops?
ah Maltersers, my fave! (reaches over to grab some)
Come on ladies, Haychee REALLY needs us!
No, I did not shed a 'little tear' for MMC. It would be ridiculous for me to do so, as I do not know the child. Neither do I shed tears for the children in Darfur, nor for unfortunate bystanders of suicide bombs. I do comment on the sadness, and if there is any real help I can give then of course I would do so. But to 'shed a little tear' is just insulting. Really.
Save your tears for your own real tragedies. Don't turn someone elses tragedy into your own!
Why would you ram it down their throats? You need to talk about this.
There is no way across this particular river.
snort @ "a little tear rolling down my cheek".
Oh please let the sun come out soon, no rain today, but very grey.
How may to go? I fear we will not be able to help haychee, or her emotional state, before we reach 1000.
Having had a look at this thread, I don't think self-control is Haychee's forte, exactly.
Got anything nice planned for the weekend?
So a little tear rolling down my cheek is not allowed for fear of using my kids as emotional crutches because i cannot cope? Utterly heartless if you did not shed one single tear for madeleine. The fact is i did and am not ashamed of that. Nor are my children and they are not affected by it either. They are happy content children who at times need a reminder that life can be a dangerous place and that they are not infact invincible. I do not ram it down their throats they everyone out there is out to get them i just highlight the danger to raise awareness.
haychee - there are degrees of 'upsetness', you obviously went a bit overboard over MMC. Yes I am upset about it, but not in a crying/sniffeling/mentioning it to my children way. It does not affect them, they need not be upset by it.
You seem to see everything in black and white, there are various shades of grey out there, try some on for size!
Tomorrow's supposed to be nice.
Not too soon Kew. This woman needs our help. She is an emotional wreck and her poor dc's are witness to it. We HAVE too help her
It's ok here. A bit cloudy and quite chilly.
Is it raining with you all today?
What would you do if someone you knew died, tear your hair out and slit your wrists? I was upset when I heard about MM, I had a lump in my throat, but I didn't feel the need to get hysterical. Where's the proportionality?
I would actually be rather cross about the idea of a stranger feeling that upset if something happened to my daughter.
Perhaps you showed less distress than i'm imagining. I'm picturing the news on the TV and you crying and them wanting to know what the matter is.
haven't we got to 1000 yet?
C'mon people step it up, step it up...
yes - emotional incontinence. Perfect description. Thank you Aloha
Bannaknickers - rolf ! Just use the force, everything will be fine
I know you have, that's why I'm so [shocked]
I really think you need help if you can't control yourself infront of your dc's.
Really, I'm just concerned for your children, that's all
use my children emotional crutches what a load shit!
i was upset and i explined why, i did not look to them to support me. Why are you twisting what ive said out of all proportion?
Haychee - you seem to think in extremes. No-one has said it's wrong to show feelings. People are just surprised that your distress over this news story was such that your very young children noticed.
Well said, Aloha. Oh, for the days of the stiff upper lip...
Haychee, I don't know whether to admire you for sticking around, or be irritated by your failure to listen to what people are saying. But the thing is, there are plenty of people on these boards who are dealing with very real tragedies in their own families. It seems appallingly insenstive to revel in something that is really little to do with you while there are parents who have no choice but to give their children terrible, awful news. Just count your blessings that your children are safe and healthy and leave the scare mongering until there really is something to fear.
I have not said its ok to be upset infront of my kids ALL OF THE TIME where did you get that idea?
Yes I think so too TF. I would never do that to my DD. How she can use her dc's as emotional crutches is
And, what is wrong with being upset by a childs abduction when i dont know the child or her family? We have all said it is an upsetting case, but its not ok to show that to your kids?
I think it's quite worrying.
Why would you think it's ok to be upset in front of them all the time. This is VERY SAD.
shellandjessica (sorry if I got your name wrong) you speak perfect sense.
I'm a bit too - Why can't you control yourself?
I DID NOT look to my children for comfort that idea is ridiculous. I just explained why i found it upsetting and now they understand. Still cant see the problem with showing kids its ok to be upset sometimes.
Of course it is okay to show children you are upset sometimes. But at appropriate times, such as a poorly or dead pet, having to move house, hurting yourself. Not for a child you and your dc don't know. Because it should not affect them directly.
There should be a balance and a modicum of common sense.
DAISY MOO wrote
No of course parents shouldn't hide distress - but I am a bit about bawling uncontrollably over a child I'd never met.
You look to your poor little children for comfort
That is SO SAD.
The thing is a British child age three has been abducted at gun point in Nigera, Do those who believe we should tell our children everything also think i should bring my nursery aged child in and tell her the if shes driving down the road in the back of the car someone might shoot at the car, kill the people with her and steal her, or if shes in her class at school that some nutter might come in and kill her and her class mates, will that really make her more alert to stranger danger?
I think the advert should be shown in films that arent suitable for very young preschool children, and if it is shown in U films watered down to simply say missing, like others it was the snatched from bed sentence that angered me.
And I'd like to know those who believe my child should be upset for the good of Madeleines family, what good exactly is that doing? Am i supposed to upset my own child for the sake of protecting someone elses.
I did not look to my children for comfort that idea is ridiculous. I just explained why i found it upsetting and now they understand. Still cant see the problem with showing kids its ok to be upset sometimes.
You repeatedly bawled over your little children
Do you bawl uncontrollably for the starving children in Darfur?
Or the hundreds of other children taken from their parents every year?
You were bawling over your little children?
That is VERY BAD. So sad for your poor dc's.
I was not bawling uncontrollably i repeat i was not bawling uncontrollably
Your daughter is a child - you are a grown woman (or are you?)
I think it would be seen as a bit to be visibly upset (and no that does not have to mean bawling) over something you have no direct involvement in.
We were all upset and sympathetic to MMC's plight, but we can do this without showing our dc (who we are supposed to be strong for)
In my world, parents comfort children, not the other way round
No of course parents shouldn't hide distress - but I am a bit about bawling uncontrollably over a child I'd never met.
I am extremely proud that my children (2&5) see life as pretty idyllic and happy and people as good. I am patting myself on the back as I type, because I am also an acrobat.
It is exactly the sort of childhood I wanted to give them.
I loathe emotional incontinence.
NO they didnt have to ask me what was wrong i want bawling uncontrollably. But yes i was visibly upset and i told them why and they can now understand why i would be upset. What is wrong with that? Should parents never show distress? or cry in front of them? that would be very difficult for me! If my daughter cries over charlottes web, what do i say that is not allowed - sort yourself out girl!
wannabe - I wanted to point out the similarities between the Princess Di 'outpouring of grief' (as the media called it), and this. But I'm glad you did it first .
not wrong as such but disturbing that someone would get so upset over someone they didn't even know. worrying that someone is so emotional that they are unable to keep it together in front of their children in the case of someone they didn't know. Have you suffered any personal tradgedy? because if not I fear for your emotional wellbeing should that ever be the case.
Misdee are you hiding behind the cake names?
Welcome back temporarily Misdee - shame we had to meet on this warzone of a thread!
Read about dd2's good results on SN board (was too afraid to post there as I feel I ought not to be there) but well done!! She is a star, and you deserve some good news!!
And to add, me and my kids live ALOT! And i want that to continue. I want them to have the knowledge to be able to play unsupervised with their friends out in the street safely. We do not sit around being totally focused on th edarker side of life questioning every person who speaks to us motives. Its just an awareness of the world around them and that it isnt as safe as we would like it to be.
Have you seen the news that all the cinemas have now decided against screening the Maddy clip pre kiddy films?
So you were so visibly upset over a child you had never met, a family you did not know, that your children had to ask you what was wrong?
And you don't see anything wrong with that??
haychee, I've been following the posts and I've even said that I shelter my children to a very great extent. You have interpreted that to mean we have told them that the world is made of gingerbread just because they know nothing of MMC
bugger, nork has truly slipped from my clasp
hippi,. i am me again for a day or two as saturday is the start of transplant week. just been on phone to newspaper to run an article next week. press releases went out this morning.
will be back to cakey names soon
They are aware of me being upset and i explained to them why. Is that wrong?
Wannabe - the diana thing was also way over the top and uncomfortably strange. So much grief for someone people did not know....
Yes, keep believing that, you're on the right track now
Ive seen it here and if youve been following the posts you would see it too. I dont want to have to trawl through the posts to proove it.
Misdee, you are you again! Must say, your cakeyness was making me hungry!
Haychee - there is a tiny tiny tiny darkside. Not as big as you make out. You need to stop dwelling on the dark side and start to live a little. A life full of regret is no life at all. (or something like that)
Anyroad, you are contradicting yourself, you said that you had to tell your dc about MMC because they could see you were upset. Now you say your children are not aware of you being upset.
Which was it?
I find this notion of getting so upset over a child you've never met that you had to tell your children odd tbh. Similarly I found the outpouring of emotion over Dianna odd.
Yes it's upsetting, and on more than one occasion I felt sad thinking about someone taking a sleeping child from her bed and how horrible that must be, but crying in front of one's children? hmm.
I learnt about the dark side when my dad took me to see star wars
er, hmmm yes i think it might be. Not to sure though because im beginning to believe that im actually thick, stupid, a troll, and whatever else name i have been labelled with here.
So what? What's it to ye. I look after my child, you'll never have too so piss off and look after your own.
haychee, it appears you are railing against a position no-one on the thread is holding to anyway.
and is that really your concern?
Life is good, but there is a dark side! I dont go on about the dark side i simply show it exists, which i think some parents dont do.
My kids are not affected by my emotions! That is exactly the point i was able to talk it through with them and they can understand why i would be upset.
HIPPIPOTOMI, absolutely kids are more concerned with matters that are relevent to them. My kids would remember the film not the 2minute ad before the film. So why such an uproar about it?
I agree the wording should be changed but that is all.
You all may not have seen as this was on my local news, but the school that Madeline was supposed to have attended this year had the kids line up to spell out some some sort of message and wearing yellow ribbons etc.
I'd have been so furious if my dd went to that school. If she'd been an existing pupil I could have seen the point because they would have known her, but the new kiddies starting school were doing it, they didn't know her and I feel that was wrong of the school to do.
Though I bet the kids were excited about the helicopter flying over their heads!
ui want my kids to belive life is good, what is wrong with that?
get over yiourself.
So you are saying you agree with those that have told their children like you have, and you have a problem with those that do differently than you. And then you get cross when you cannot change everyones pov to yours....
Exactly NKF - there is being discreetly upset, and there is crying in front of the children.
By all means cry in front of the children when it directly affects you/them such as the death of a family member. But for someone you have never met? Way too much!
Again and again ive said that i dont have a problem with those parents who have told their kids about MMC or any other story in the news. Its those who want their kids to beleive that lfe is actually a bed of roses that i have an issue with.
Haychee - people make up their own minds on this but I think it's irrational to be that upset and for your children to be affected by it.
May I refer you to my new thread in the news section, seeing as you all will have some advice on this.
haychee - the kids were at school whilst us mums have our coffee mornings. Unless they have super hearing stretching over 2 miles, they would not have heard!!
My ds does not watch newsround, none of his friends are aware of MMC, and even if they were, they have got things to discuss much more important to them such as football, parties, etc. It is not (and should not be) part of their lives.
Regarding school - luckily my school has common sense - not a poster/banner/ribbon/mention in sight. And that is the way it is staying. The brilliant headmaster believes in childhool not scaremongering.
It is real life after all, people even parents get upset.
Unless a school is directly involved (eg a missing child was a pupil there), I think it's very odd to use this type of story in an assembly. I'd seriously question the jdugement of the headteacher.
Agree with Orm.
But she'll still come back with tripe having deliberately missed the point AGAIN!
I suggest she stand out in the rain a while - might help her to grow a brain - idiot.
so its not ok to show your emotions and explain your reasons for that to a child? Or do we teach them its not ok to ever be upset by anything?
I'm a bit confused at you panic about my children accidently hearing about MMC. It isn't remotely likely.
Older kids at school? - do you actually supervise all of their conversations?
My dd school covered it in their assembly sometime ago.
You say another parent had mentioned it, well isnt that enough kids listen with their ears wide open and imaginations swithced to full blast.
And another thing - your children can see how upset this makes you? ffs - what sort of childhood are they having, ' mummy was upset and cried a lot, the world is a scary place, people want to take us away wherever we go'
(shakes head sadly)
(temporarily slips out of nork-clasping)
haychee - where do you live that there is such a huge danger of your children hearing about MMC from someone else.
Where I live we are more dignified - it feels wrong to discuss it, and as far as I am aware not one child ds's age (nearly 8) has mentioned it to him. One of my friends brought it up one morning whilst we were having coffee - this was about a week after MMC went missing. No one has mentioned it since.
We all think it is sad (before you accuse us of being cruel and heartless) but we have better things to do with our lives than idle speculation/gossip/wailing about how upset we are. Hence virtually zilch chance of the dc hearing it from someone.
Haychee - I'm not given to bossiness as a rule but I honestly think that it is not rational or responsible to experience and show such distresss over this news story that your children can tell that something is hurting you.
"They are out there carrying on like everyone is a friend and nothing bad ever happens! "
Yes they are. I'm one to a very great extent. My three know about the McCann case - we've discussed it (and yes the mummy-filters were on). They are very sad for her. They know about terrorism and all the other terrible things that happen. But with explanation and in context. There is nothing I can do to explain the sudden abduction of a little girl from her bed that would make any sense to them or would be in any way constructive. And keeping it constantly in their faces (literally in the case of the cinema ad) is going to result in them thinking that this is a common occurence. Something to worry about all the time. Scaring the sh*t out of kids isn't going to keep them safer in the long term and certainly won't keep them happier.
Would it be better to pretend that everyone is any enemy and nothing good ever happpens. Which does seem to be the opposing POV .
if i had the patience and time to trawl back through the posts here im sure i would find quite a few comments that proove they are out there but ireally cant be arsed.
I have no issues with you directly NKF, all i want to achieve is that people realise that kids cant be shielded entirely from the grim side of life. I would not go out of my way to make sure they are aware of every single news break, that would scare them silly of course. I just wanted to get in there first before they heard it elsewhere - surely you can understand that?
And he might hear about ironing from someone else.
but.. I have to <sigh> If I dont I will be so terribley upset, wont be able to control my emotions and blub all over ds when i collect him. Then I will have to tell him the hoorifying truth of ironing cos I couldnt simply say that I was being a bit silly sweetheart and not to worry and give him a hug. No, cos that would be being a parent and not offloading my emotions on my children.
6 & 4 years. My 4yr old had her birthday just a few days after madeleines and she is very similar in looks that is why it had upset me so much and still does.
<<yes please awen..but i will have to start spelling really badly !!>>
I think you have misunderstood what you read.
so if it transpires that the McCanns were in some way involved in this, will you then tell your children that there are parents out there that do harm to their own children?
There are such parents, ive read it here. One said they would do everything they could to make sure their kids did not fear anything and they would live carefree lives. Its true! They are out there carrying on like everyone is a friend and nothing bad ever happens!
Ironing. Ironing. Get back here girl.
<shuffles away from keyboard>
But I like troll baiting. I do have some ironing to do tho as havean ironing mountain. Might come back tonight tho
.. sheesh Lulumama is soooo bossy .. hmm I could start a thread about lulumama and we could get a special lulumama day .
I had to tell them because initially it upset me and they wanted to know why i was upset. And not only that i wanted them to hear from me not the media or overhearing it somewhere or from an older child in the playground.
c'mon Awen, away from this, your head will explode ......
There are no such parents. That's just your interpretation of a different kind of behaviour.
lulumama - hark you being all grown up and proper
Pagwatch - I didnt scare her see, she just found her Caps button. Tis troll baiting, not yet illegal
Haychee - I am sure her parents are infinitely grateful or your shared grief and upset and this situation FGS show some dignity and step away from mass hysteria. The reason why you wont tell your dc about the other 3 year old abducted today is because it hasnt reached hysteria/fever so no bandwagon rolling for you to jump on yet.
My issue is purely with those parents who want their children to live a carefree life and do not want to let them hear of ANYTHING that is from the darker side of life. This is all that i disagree with! Honestly!
Why did you have to tell them? How old are they? Or are you unfortunate enough to live in the sort of neighbourhood that is strung with yellow ribbons and full of stupid people holding "Madeleine days"? Because if you do, I'd suggest it's time to move house.
I have NOT ignored any of the comments made here. Infact i have learned that some kids are far more sensitive than mine! SO FECK OFF yourself and get your fact right! Your indication that im here because i just want to wind you all up is childish. I have listened and learnt from you all, and after all a discussion is about give and take not attacking.
I do not in anyway ENJOY any part of the missing girls plight. I do not enjoy having to tell my kids about it either, its hard and very upsetting. And your comments mare making it even more upsetting.
but it would almost be a shame wouldn't it. haychee is quite the funniest thing I have read in a long time. Pompous, prepoterous, opinionated, arrogant yet sooooo caring and a far better mum than any of us.
Oh please don't scare her away.
I have wondered for years where Jeremy Kyle finds loud stupid people who just don't listen and keep making the same point ad nauseum without listening or applying any insight.
please let her stay forever - she makes me feel measured and reasonable and contemplative.
May I respectfully suggest the following:
This argument / debate is totally polarised
Neither side is going to suddenly say, "you know, you are right.. I cannot believe I thought of it any other way..."
So , why not agree to disagree and accept we all parent differently, neither way being better nor worse, just different.
All of us want a positive outcome, and we all want out children to have happy, well balanced childhoods, and we try to achieve that the way we see fit, as individuals.
But Haychee, you are choosing how you handle this with your children, can you not understand that other parents are choosing how to handle it with theirs and may do things differently from you? I don't want to alarm my boy unecessarily so haven't told him yet and won't unless something comes up. Luckily all the people I know are sensible and don't discuss this in front of children.
As far as i understood the fundraising issue it was the kindness of people making donations at the outset not the McCanns asking for it! Once these donations had started flowing in they had to then manage that, i dont think ive seen anywhere a request for funds.
But you seem to be dictating what children should be told.
Haychee - be a dear and feck off as lots of us have made valid points [bangs head] and you still ignre most of them. Did you visit the shrine (bet you did, with your children). You are so full of yourself and trying to pull the old empathy card it is really pissing me off. You are just enjoying in an almost sick way the fact that something terrible has happened and you are letting fill your life. Get on with your life and your kids ffs
It doesn't make sense as a Crimewatch appeal. It's too generalised. Crimewatch works be`cause it appeals to people in the locality and gives specific pieces of information to look out for. It's put together wth the help of the police and has a good track record.
the media is not dictating the timescale madeleines abductors have done that
yes people have the right to ask and I have the right to say no. but asking for it has made a lot of people lose a lot of respect for the Mccanns, and has been responsible for a lot of the speculation that they're living a jet-set lifestyle sitting in the algarv coining it in while others are being asked to look for their child.
If my ds went missing I would sell everything I owned before running cap in hand to those who were in less of a position to afford to give than myself.
it IS both a fundraiser and a crimewatch appeal. They want to keep madeleines image at the forefront of the news so people will have a constant reminder of what she looks like. I know i would want to do the same if it were my child.
Well, blow me down Haychee, you are a bit slow. Other parents want their children to learn bad news from them and not the media. Hence the irritation about the Shrek ad. To which I suppose you will reply "but it's been 60 days."
Why should the media dictate what children are told?
Haychee looks like she has trolled off. Cant we send her to the other site. They might not eat her alive there
haychee, something doesn't have to be brand-new for it to have shock-value to young children. If I had told my children about MMC, I would have done so in an age appropriate way. That wouldn't innoculate them from further, and more detailed explanations.
The fact that not everyone watching a U rated film is a small child isn't relevant - the fact of the U rating means that what is shown should be appropriate if there were small children present. Personally speaking, I often think U ratings are far too loosely applied anyway, and we tend to pre-watch, but it would be very nice to be able to just trust that the ratings are accurate.
bang Nah not really. THink your points are very valid.
People have a right to ask for money. Beggars do it all the time. That doesn't bother me. It's easy not to give if you don't want to.
Exactly EDAM. That is the point im trying to make! I wanted to make sure my kids knew about it from me not the media or another adult or child in the playground
well if it's now a fundraising campaign then I think it should be stopped altogether.
The idea of giving money to people who have a £600000 house in leicester and a second home in Scotland makes me very tbh. it was described as a "good outlet for peoples' emotions" wtf.
I totally have no problem with raising Madeleine's profile, with asking people to be vidulant, to call the police if she is spotted, but I personally think that asking the public for money is disgusting.
now shoot me.
Haychee, no, I would be furious at any insensitive, daft adult who thought it was appropriate to tell my son about this. What's he going to do, go out and find her, for heaven's sake? No, he'd just be bloody terrified.
BUT if he saw something on the news, for instance, I would attempt to explain in a matter of fact way with lots of reassurance.
I think most of use feel the same Orm. i really don't buy into this we need to be reminded of it bollox.
ture quadrophneia. THey could have spent that time focusing on their own children instead.
Fundraising I would have thought OI. And the desire to keep her name alive. Nobody in their right minds could possibly think that it might help find her.
What was it for though? Whatever the arguments for and against children seeing it, what was the point of the ad? I really don't understand what more could be acheived by the showing of this.
Alot of the 'trolls' on this thread have pointed out how much they have read and discussed the MM situation over the last 60 days. Says it all really.
Wannabe I said that. But Haychee is jumping on the old hysteria band wagon. BEt she needed time off work and counselling when princess diana died too.
I don't buy into the amateur sleuth approach at all. The idea that a bunch of British parents holiday in the Costas is going to break the case strikes me as ludicrious. It's a fundraising campaign not a Crimewatch appeal.
I think many children are unaware of the story. You probably disagree. How knowledgeable children are of the world's disasters is highly individual. The ad campaign in the cinema assumed that all parents took a similar approach. It was a the wrong assumption.
I don't buy into the amateur sleuth approach at all. The idea that a bunch of British parents holiday in the Costas is going to break the case strikes me as ludicrious. It's a fundraising campaign not a Crimewatch appeal.
I think many children are unaware of the story. You probably disagree. How knowledgeable children are of the world's disasters is highly individual. The ad campaign in the cinema assumed that all parents took a similar approach. It was a the wrong assumption.
Any child could be kidnapped at gunpoint, shouldn't you be warning your children of that? after all, Madeleine disappeared in another country, this child was kidnapped in another country, there is no less relevance here.
As for people going abroad, anyone who thinks that Madeleine is going to be spotted on someone's holiday is deluded IMO. Anyone who is clever enough to plan the abduction of a child during a time when they knew the parents wouldn't be there and wouldn't come back, is clever enough to know that taking Madeleine to one of the holiday hot-spots of the world would be a bad idea. Besides which if Madeleine was abducted it's highly doubtful that the abductor's intentions are to take her on a family holiday.
True DaisyMoo.. actually not one signle parent I have spoken to have bought it up. It is a terrible awful thing but it seems a but grotesque to pick over the details on the school run/chat with other mums.
Oh Feck - just sprayed bagel over keyboard at that last one. I PMSL at that.
Haychee, but some people do choose not to let their children know any of it, surely that is up to the parent.
Saying that, you mention that there are non-frightening ways to explain it all...would be interested in those...got an almost 3, 4 1/2 and 11 year old...the 11 year old I know how, but how do I explain about childsnatchers to my younger children. Actually nothing to do with teh Madelein Case, but there have been a few incidents in our area where on several occasions someone has tried to get some children into their cars, which obviously makes me a bit jumpy and I need to make my younger children understand that they have to stay with me at all times, etc...I don't want to ocmpletely freak them out, of course...
And to be perfectly honest, my children are v. unlikely to hear about MM through hearing adults "talking about it freely" because the adults who I socialise with have enough sense NOT to talk about it freely in front of children!
So you are happy for your easily upset by the story son to hear it first from someone else?
SENSE OF HUMOUR!!!!
FFS! Is that what you where doing ? trying to be funny?! Good grief, you were totally out of order and sick in the head to have even contemplated using these ideas and scenarios of me sitting down with kids and showing them pictures at bedtime of people on fire. NOT FUNNY IN THE SLIGHTEST!
But why do we need reminding of what madeline looks like? We all know don't we?
Well, I am not telling my nearly four year old. Unless he becomes aware of it through other people. It's too frightening. And terrifying my boy would not help the McCann's in any way.
So are you saying that all parents should tell their children, no matter how young, about MM going missing?
edam, that point has been stressed to Haychee over and over and she is just not getting it. She's either just here for a laugh to piss people off or she is thicker than my dogs turd. I suggest the latter is most likely!
what do you do then? snuggle up in bed with them and read them the newspapers in a loving voice?
But Haychee, as I understand it, seems to think that parents should have told their children by now. They've had 60 days after all.
perhaps there isa reason cbeebies doesnt show the news and cbbc newsround shows a tamed down version? why on earth shouldnt the 3 year old british childs plight of being kidnaped at gunpoint not be in parents mind. You have just jumped on the bandwagon IMO
NKF in reply;
1. That is as i already understand, but thanks for telling me again!
2. The school holidays are approaching, people will be travelling all over the world within the next few weeks for the annual holidays. Lets make sure everyone is reminded of what madeleine looks like before they set off! The audience watching shrek are the perfect audience to raise funds for her campaign as we all know and or can imagine how awful the situation must be for the McCanns.
3. I think 60+ days is long enough to have risked some information being told to my kids if i had chosen to keep it a secret.
The point is you chose how to handle the Madeleine case with your children. The objections to the ad are from parents who want the same right - to choose whether and how they tell their children about this very sad case.
Haychee do you also tell your children about suicide bombers? They are in the forefront of the news and are most likely discussed by parents too after all.
No sense of humour at all. Very, very sad.
Is that story likely to be at the forefront of uk news and discussed freely by parents? I think the answer is no!
I do not go out of my way to make sure my kids are unduly upset but when something as big as the madeleine case is continuously in the news, yes i will tell them in a way that doesnt freak them out! I know the story is scary but there are words to use that dont scare them more than is necessary. I just would rather that news of this nature came from me and not in the playground. I do not as you imply go on and on about it to my kids, i gave them a brief explanation and answered their questions and concers and that was all. I have not bought it up again until they wanted to. When they have seen the pictures of madeleine since our talk they have either asked mre about it or just left it. I cant see the problem with my choice, my kids are settled content and have not suffered from having had told them! It was probobly the way i went about it that reassurred them at the time.
1) the ad hasn't been withdrawn entirely, just removed from movies that children are allowed to see.
2) It's not clear how showing the ad will help the police find the missing child
3) People who have chosen not to tell their children about the missing child don't need a 60 day deadline.
The audience of shrek is not only kids of preschool age! I wonder exactly what the ratio is of the different age groups that have seen it. I know its a U cert and therefore the ads and previews should be appropriate for a U audience. That is why i do agree that the wording should be changed to suit that younger audience but i do not agree it should be withdrawn entirely. Simply because of 2 reasons,1. the continued hieghtened awareness for the campaign and 2. there has been enough time (60+days) to have been able to have brought up the issue with your kids by now and the shock factor eliminated.
haychee another sad and terrible story in the news. A 3 year old british child kidnapped at gunpoint in NIgeria. Are you going to tell you children about that too?
WELLS YOU have attacked me repeatedly over the last few days! Your choice of words are shocking and the way in whcih you have TWISTED my opinion is unforgivable!
I do not take any pleasure from telling my kids about the grim side of life, I do not sit and show them pictures of people on fire as you have implied. Your reaction to my views are sick and i have serious doubts about your character and therefore validity of your messages.
All i want to point out to some (not all) parents is that kids of school age cannot be shielded enitrely from the dangers in the world! You cannot guarantee that an older child will not let the secret slip to a younger child if you do not supervise every conversation that a child has.
but it seems omari that we cant even trust family now (the little girl raped and strangled in her bed by her uncle) so what prey does haychee tell her children now?
haychee - "and announce he/she is lost.."
Yes. I would expect my child to do exactly that. Preferably someone in charge in some way, perhaps a shop assistant or a security guard.
"..ready for the taking!"
Er... no. That is totally wrong. No child should be brought up to think that all adults are potnetially going to leap on them to do unspeakable things once they stray from mummy's side. IME when mine have been lost adults do leap on them - to make sure they are OK and help them find me again. That is what I would do to a lost child. Wouldn't you?
How can a child, brought up to mistrust anyone and anything outside their family, become happy confident adults, participating in society? The world is not full of monsters. There are undoubtedly some dangerous people but they are few and far between, which is why the McCann case has had such an airing in the first place.
And if my kid's school started laying that stuff on them in assembly I'd be fricking furious.
I think some people take a kind of pleasure in inflicting pointless scary stories on kids. Of course I'd tell my kids if their dog was poorly! It is part of their lives. It is relevant to them.
A poor little girl in portugal disappearing from her bed in the night, is not at all relevant. There are no lessons for children to learn from that at all. NONE.
haychee, not really, no. Largely because I fail to see what use it is to tell an audience of pre-schoolers that one of their contempories is missing.
I sympathize with the McCanns, as most people do, but I think eventually, media saturation is going to prove counter-productive, because it won't 'keep her in the public eye' she'll become invisible, just as things that we're very used to usually do.
If they're still showing the ad by the time we next go to the cinema, which will be when the new Narnia movie comes out, I definitely would be thinking that they need to be focusing their resources on better avenues.
"I certainly don't think all the bickering on here is going to help find her."
Neither is a cinema ad. Sorry but I don't think it is.
So suebarro, would you not be happy if the wording were just changed?
Haychee, I know I'm one of the mothers that has got right up your nose, so I will try to explain once more -
we have children and we have made a conscious decision to make sure we try our damndest to filter the world for them while they at such a young age (all mine are under 7)
They do not believe that world is make of icing sugar and populated by fluffy bunnies. They understand that not everyone is kind, and they know all about death in the context of our family.
We do not tell them about every news event that occurs, and what we do share with them, we do in age-appropriate detail.
For my children, 'little girl snatched from her bed while she slept' is not remotely appropriate detail. You may disagree. But it is none of your business. If something is certificated as 'U', there is a reason for that.
"What should happen is the wording changed as i think we are all now agreed?"
I don't agree. I'm delighted it's been pulled from children's films.
i never came here for a bitch contest or a row! I thought it was a discussion!
But some people will call you names and slander you for incorrect typing and spelling errors rather than listen to the message being said. I think they do this because they have no legitimate arguement to make in return for my opinion.
pmsl hanbags at dawn then girls...
if you have pigs, shouldn't you be called DaisyOINK? (347 and counting)
If you all continue to attack me and belittle me then i will retaliate!
FOR THE UMPTEENTH TIME I AGREE THE WORDING SHOULD BE CHANGED FOR THE U CERT FILMS! YOU STUPID WOMAN!
shrek is a U cert you stupid woman!!
U cert films - yes. PG and 12 certs - no! Parental guidance says what? that you as parents must guide your children when viewing!
But the ad hasn't been withdrawn from cinemas haychee, just some cinemas have withdrawn it from U, PG and 12A films. <sigh> going to feed my pigs now, they listen more (and are in total agreement with me of course )
Quietly unhappy is fine! Its the withdrawl of the ad from the cinema thats annoying me! What should happen is the wording changed as i think we are all now agreed?!
Everyone has different opinions. I myself did not come on here telling everyone what they should tell their children, I came on here personally to say, if it were my child missing I would do anything in my power to find her.
I do agree maybe i came on here all guns ablazing and i also agree with wannabee about her statement regarding the decision of the McCanns leaving their children unattened.
I myself and I am sure none of you would do leave your kids on there own. But the fact is that they did and Madeline is gone.
I understand some children are very sensitive and maybe would have been scared. Personally mine were not affected.
I certainly don't think all the bickering on here is going to help find her.
Thats all i have to say on the matter.
I'm still not a troll though I'm an Ogre.
HAYCHEE. I was being a bit tongue-in-cheek - my point being that you really can't know whether or not no parent has quietly complained or even been quietly unhappy about the assembly.
lordy lordy, 356 posts to go before this thread dies <<sigh>>
JCANNE - im not shouting your name im just making it obvious and stand pout that im directing that particular comment to you.
You cant seem to do anything right on here!
Am off now to play games with my lovely children who I have neglecting this morning.
HERE WE GO AGAIN!
Look back at all the threads! There are parents out there who are doing this! ONe said they wanted their children to grow up untterly carefree and will their upmost to ensure that this happened! This is what i am disagreeing with!
Please refrain from calling me thick as 2 short planks when you obviously havnt been paying full attention to what some parents have said!
That's fine though Haychee, you can tell them the facts you want them to know and prepare them - that's what I do. I don't want someone else doing it for me.
My children, my choice.
Haychee - why do you keep shouting my name?
I agree we can't wrap them in cotton wool and we can't allow them to believe everyone is nice and friendly and won't hurt them but there are degrees of information. Also there is only so much info children can take in and retain.
For me with DD at 4 years old I am more concerned that she knows the principles of crossing a road for example as she is MORE likely to be run over than she is to be abducted.
that depends on the "childrens" locality to the incident and the age of the children.
The point im trying repeatedly to make is that kids talk! Information of such stories may be overheard and misconstrued. I would rather my child had the facts from me initially before such information leaked out in the playground.
haychee, will you listen - no one is saying we let our child believe the world is a safe place. you are deliberately misunderstanding us, (or you are as thick as two short planks) and I am sick of the back teeth of you.
oops, let go of nork - hippi reclasps and runs off
I don't think anyone is saying that children should be made to think that the world is "entirely a safe place" - they just want to choose how to address that issue themselves.
I'm a fully qualified teacher (not a paediatrician though, so my opinion may be worth nothing) and I think it was a very bad decision for your child's school to have made.
Just out of interest, do you think school children should have been made aware of the Dunblane tragedy?
Still think its futile to keep kids beleiving the wotrld is entirely a safe place though!
superchoccycake on Thu 05-Jul-07 10:08:23
i dont want my kdis to know a little girl was snatched from her bed. they know a little girl is missing, but not that one fact. bedtime should be a safe place, not having them scared to go to sleep in case someone snatches them.
how about a picture of madeleine with a number to call, thats non-scary, and reaches those they want to know.
Why do you have to be like this? DAISYMOO
"are you a fully qualifies teacher?"
NO, but its a small school and i know 99% of the parents well enough to have heard if there was uproar about it! Thankyou very much!
A couple of months ago we had a terrible tradegy in our community where a father and his 2 children were killed in a house fire. It was decided that it would not be mentioned in Pre School unless the children themselves brought the subject up.
The primary school children were dealt with differently as the little boy was in FS2. DD is in FS1 and I was pleased she didn't have to confront this terrible tradegy.
She doesn't know about Madelaine either. She's 4, imo she doesn't need to.
I'm also pretty sure that most parents will have approached the "stranger danger" thing with their children by the time they start school regardless of whether they have told them about MM.
totaleclipse - I don't think anyone is blaming the Mccanns for trying to do what ever they can - we just think that they made a mistake with the audience this ad was presented to - the decision probably had little to do with them.
haychee but there is difference between not telling your children about "stranger danger" (god i hate that phrase) and Madeleine. Telling Madeleine about stranger danger wouldn't have prevented her from being snatched from her bed, she was likely asleep, so even if she'd been warned not to approach strangers it would have been futile.
Yes I believe children need to know about strangers. my ds does. He knows that he must always stay where he can see me, where he can see me as I am blind and unable to see him, therefore I do feel it is important that he knows, I can't keep him chained to me at all times because that would be unfair, he knows never to wander off with someone he doesn't know, he does know about Madeleine but he doesn't know she was taken from her bed, that part he doesn't need to know.
i agree DAISYMOO. The wording of the ad should be changed but NOT withdrawn entirley!
How do you know not one parent complained? Are you a fuly qualified head teacher?
Flipping heck - reception classes - 4 and 5 year olds??
Give me strengh - the head of that school is insane!
How are the parents going to deal with the fall out from that one?
(never mind making children in a non-religious school pray)
See that is what is wrong with the media circus surrounding MMC, children are told too much and made to do things they never normally do (pray) and then adults are surprised their little ones are unable to keep this danger in perspective.
Hippi clasp nork and walks off, vowing to find a saner place...
the children who attended this assembly were infans reception- year2. Not one parent complained! The most complaints are to do with the fact that the children were made to pray! Most of the parents are not religious- and this was and is the issue at the forefront not the fact theat they had mentioned the madleine case!
Erm, what's a dog with a tumour got to do with it (I'm very sorry about that btw, it must really upsetting for you and your family, hope everything is OK) My children know about the 'harsher' things in life when I feel that knowing about them when they need to know about them.
They know lots of potentially upsetting things that many parents (understandably) balk at telling their kids like where meat comes from - we keep our own chickens, ducks, pigs and they know that we eat them. I think it is important that they know this, but not important that they know about little girls being snatched from their beds.
HAYCHEE I think that your school shouldn't have done that, it was innapropriate - if they did I would hope that they kept the details hazy. I don't think you are wrong to have told your child about it, I don't think the people that chose not to tell their children about it are wrong. It is your/their right to choose as a parent what to tell your/their children.
The ad has to withdrawn in the short term so the wording can be changed.
How can you not agree with the wording but let the ad run???
Don't you see that?
choccy was it near you that the yellow ribbons were outside someone's house?
I personally feel that whole school assembleys devoted to one child are totally ott. What does it achieve? Children of certain ages do need to know to be aware, but they don't need to know about this case - it's not as if 4 year olds are going to be vidulant and looking out for Madeleine is it?
Yes choccycake i see it! Ive seen it for a couple of days! The wording should be changed but the ad should not be withdrawn from the cinema!
Ive said that over and over again but your not listening!
MY issue is with those parents who want their kids not to have to worry about any bad stuff that goes on the world. My issue is that it would be impossible to shield children of school age form the grim reality of life!
Just recently, a man approached some junior school children as they left for home. A letter went round to all the parents and the children were warned and reinforced the dangers of talking to strangers by the school! What a shock that would be for those kids who have NO IDEA that there is such a thing as a dangerous stranger!
haychee - your school should not have held that assembly. It is up to the parents, not the school to tell children these things!
Luckily round here schools and nurseries have retained a modicum of commons sense - not once have they mentioned MMC, and none of the children have asked anything.
That is the way I want to keep it!
haychee did they do that without informing the parents? How old were the children involved?
Guys, please, no more Madeleine arguments. There are varying opinions on the whole case, this could just run and run.
I have just happened upon these Madeleine/Shrek threads, so may be repeating a lot of what's been said, as I haven't read much of the threads, but would like to add my opinion. I was surprised too at the Madeleine film in the trailers for Shrek. If I'd been given a choice, I wouldn't have wanted it to be shown. I wouldn't want it thrust in mine or my DC's faces. My DC's however, are aware of the Madeleine case, they're not that freaked out by it, and I think a lot of children won't be, although there are of course those that are. Most children, dependant on age, will in some way understand that occasionally bad things happen in the world, but hopefully they feel secure enough not to be threatened by things like that themselves. Basically, I think a lot of kids don't spend a huge amount of time thinking about such things, and that can only be a good thing.
I do strongly agree that the Madeleine film in the cinema was highly inappropriate and Odeon (is it only Odeon that have done it?) shouldn't have shown it.
how do you explain the fact that my daughter attended a school assembly which was dedicated in focused on Madeleine McCann? I am most definitely adamant that im glad i got in there first!
yes they know a watered down kiddy version of what is wrong with dh, adults know that dh has a heart condiotion dilated cardiomyopathy and without a transplant he will die. my kids know that daddy has a poorly heart, he has a pump and is waiting for a new one.
adults know that madeleine was almost certainly snatched from her bed whilst asleep. children dont need to know that, my kis know a girl is missing and people are looking for her.
can you see it yet?
haychee. have you actually used the words snatched from her bed to your children?
I can see both sides to the argument, yes this publicity can put the fear of god into chidren, children often dont understand statistics and believe that it will happen to them, but at the same time, a little girl is missing (along with thousands more) If I was in the parents position, I too would want as much awareness as possible, I think they can be forgiven for thier thought being solely on trying to find thier daughter, and not everyone elses children.
Im truly sorry to hear that choccycake! I really am! Speechless for a mo!
There are also alot of sick kids in the world who have to go through terrible operations and repeated attempts at rectifying their health. They have to have some kind of understanding as to what is happening to them, so what would be the best approach? to tell them nothing or to try and explain? You must of had to of tried to explain to your kids what has happened to their dad? They must ask questions? I understand that it must be very difficult, i never said it would be easy to explain, but it has to be tried surely?
because haychee that is what my kids are dealing with, and they have enough nightmares about that, without telling them a little girl was snatched from her bed when she was asleep.
But still Haychee, it's nothing to do with you is it, how and what parents decided to tell their children? Every parent has the right to decide when to inform their children about this sort of thing and it should be on their own terms. I don't think school age children should necessarily be told that Madeleine was snatched from her bed, not the younger ones.
As a KS1 teacher I am not allowed to teach the facts of life to my class - even when they ask - I have to say "if you want to know about that you should ask your Mummy and Daddy". This is because I have to respect parental rights. This advert didn't do that I'm afraid.
i know wannabe, what the hell would madelein be doing in ikea wembley, madness.
dh is still with us, thank goodness. no calls yet.
why would i want to do that? and i think if i had to for some bizarre reason , i would!
Your question is bizarre!
haychee, try explaining to a toddler what a heart pump is.
[walks off whistling]
yes of course it would still have been incredibly rare, but people would still have felt a greater need to reinforce to their children the importance of staying close at all time/not wandering off with strangers etc.
The reality is that having a child snatched from a park could happen to anyone, it's highly unlikely that it would, but it could, but having a child snatched from its bed is almost unheard of and is only likely to happen to those who feel it appropriate to leave their children unsupervised while they go out to dinner.
and bloody hell scc people seriously have lost the plot haven't they? Am baffled that people would seriously think an abductor would be shopping with Madeleine in Ikea.
how is your dh btw?
to all of you who think i dont listen
I DO and I HAVE!
Is 60+ days not enough time to have told your kids something? There should not be the need for a prewarning that the ad was going to be shown on the big screen, because you all have had sufficient time to have already discussed it with your kids.
The reason i "have not yet replied" to your backlash is because i have had to take our dog into the vets for removal of a possible tumour. I had no choice but to take along my youngest child who is 4. I have had to explain to her about the situation. Of course i could always say that the dog had to go in there for play! Which im sure some of you would tell your kids, but what if she doesnt come home after the op, what if the worst happened?? What would i then tell my daughter? How will i also explain to my daughter that the dog now has a wound and she must be left to rest when she comes home?
I repeat, KIDS OF CERTAIN AGES CANNOT BE TOTALLY SHIELDED FROM THE GRIM REALITY OF LIFE!!!
I DO AGREE THE WORDING OF MADELEIENES AD SHOULD BE ALTERED TO SUIT A CHILD but for gods sake stop slating me for my opinions! Im not attacking those of you who have told their kids something, but comments are ONLY directed at those who think they can hide all this type of information from their children until they decide! My worry is that they will find out on their own (this is mostly related to school age children).
LOL at the pink panther thing.
I'm sorry, but humming it is the least offensive thing I would manage in your circumstances! You are extremely tolerant.
"If Madeleine Mccann had been taken from the playground of the resort she was staying at, or snatched from the beach, or from by the pool when her parents had turned their backs for a split second there would have been a far greater argument for this sudden need to tell our children about stranger danger"
No, there wouldn't. It would still have been an extraordinarily rare, bad stroke of luck.
i dont want my kdis to know a little girl was snatched from her bed. they know a little girl is missing, but not that one fact. bedtime should be a safe place, not having them scared to go to sleep in case someone snatches them.
how about a picture of madeleine with a number to call, thats non-scary, and reaches those they want to know.
btw pagwatch, my dd3 is a small 2year old. with blond/brown hair similar style to madeleines. I had some woman in ikea wembley questioning me about madeleine,k asking my daughters age 'is she the same age as the girl who is missing' 'no she is 2' 'oh she is big for 2' (no she not she is in 12-24month clothes, she is small) and peering into my daughters eyes, which are black, not the same colour as madeleine. at thought maybe she was just being friendly and chatty at first till she did the eye peering thing. i had to ask my friend what she thought of what just happened, and was she really checking to see if my dd3 was madeleine. friend said, yes she was. makes me a bit anxious when i go out with her out of the area (small community, a lot of people know us from media campaign due to dh illness).
whatever it takes, whoever it upsets the campaign must continue.
Right Im gunna get lynched for this but I dont care.
If Madeleine Mccann had been taken from the playground of the resort she was staying at, or snatched from the beach, or from by the pool when her parents had turned their backs for a split second there would have been a far greater argument for this sudden need to tell our children about stranger danger, but she wasnt. If Madeleine Mccann had been taken from her bed while her parents slept in the room next door there would have been the need to be ultra cautious and to be made super aware that your apartment could be broken into even if you were there, but she wasnt.
Madeleine Mccann was aledgedly taken from her bed when her parents, the two people who should have been there to look after her, werent. It doesnt matter if you believe it was right or wrong, the fact is, Madeleines parents had made a deliberate decision to leave their three small children unsupervised, with no baby listening, no babysitting, no way of knowing if one of those children woke up and cried or wandered out of the apartment to look for them. But were not allowed to say that, because it might upset the Mccanns who, of course, have nothing better to do at this point in time but to trawl the internet for threads such as this one.
But if Madeleine Mccann had wandered out of the apartment and had been hit by a car or had been found in the swimming pool there would have been outcry both from the media and the public, as to why such small children had been left alone while the parents dined in a restaurant. The media response would have been vastly different imo to the point that there would have been calls for changes in the law etc to protect young children from such fates. But because Madeleine Mccann is still missing its wrong to question. In fact not only must we not upset the Mccanns any further but its ok to upset our own children because not doing so might upset the Mccanns.
I feel for the Mccanns and I wouldnt wish what they are going through on my worst enemy, but I do not believe that this campaign should continue no matter who it upsets, millions of children could see this ad and be upset by it, Madeleine is only one child, a child who is missing partly because of her parents decision not to look after her on the night in question. I, and most others on here wouldnt leave our children unsupervised in such a way, thus there is no need for our children to know about being snatched from their beds.
Seriously though, when is the Boden sale on?
please calm - breath deeply...
you are so determined that you are right and everyone else is wrong that you seem determined to not actually listen to what anyone disagreeing with you is saying.
My child is 4 and is also called Madeleine - hearing her name on the news and seeing it on the front pages of papers means we have had to have brief and age appropriate converstaions about the fact that she is missing and lots of people are trying very hard to find her.
The wording of the ad would have frightened her. I object to the ad because of its wording primarily but I strongly empathise with parents who object to this issue being thrust at their children without their being able to 'control' it. I can't think of a single post objecting to the ad being shown at films aimed at children older than pre-schooler.
The muppets shouting that a concern about this ad equates to a lack of sympathy for missing Madeleine are morally repugnant. And freaky mum is a FULLY qualified bolloxologist.
BTW my Madeleine has already had a couple of Miss Marple moments when people ( always women of a certain age) start at her name and then siddle close to have a peer at her eyes. I always try to resist the temptation to hum the pink panther tune as i know they are well intention - but does freak poor daughter out a little
I'm trying cod. I re-pledge every couple of hours, but these sky news fury driven idiots are sooooo annoying. You just forget there are such thicky stubborn people about.
There is however the point that the only reason she was taken from her bed, (if that was the case) is because there was no adult there with her so surely if any little ones are upset by the wording this needs pointing out to them that mummy and daddy won't be leaving you apart from with another adult that they know if you have to go out, there is a big difference and my children accepted that quite happily because they know we would never leave them.
Haychee is speaking utter, utter nonsense. She's not listening, just going round and round and round in circles, contradicting herself. There is no point in trying.
haychee you are contradicting yourself:
"It seems that there are alot of us who disagree with the withdrawl of madeleines ad from the cinemas. Im glad alot of us have told the cinemas to keep it on!
Im still shocked and suprised that so many of you want it taken off but at least now there is a recognition that there is also alot of us who want to keep it on." *so you want it kept on then?*
"I still wholeheartedly beleive that discussing it with your child asap before they learn of it by themselves wouold be the preferable option." *that is what we are saying. Those children who saw this advert with no warning, before a film, did not have the chance to discuss it*
"Im glad the news came from me the reassurring parent who can put it into the right perspective, and can be there to discuss their fears at the time when they learned of it" *you are glad the news came from you - but what about those children who saw it for the first time in the cinema?*
"I hope that maybe an agreement can be made where the ad continues to be shown but the wording changed to suit a younger child." *Yep, again that is what we are saying - no child should have heard 'snatched from her bed (and anyway we dont know for certain that is what happened)*
"If it were my daughter id want everyone to be looking for her and not to forget what she looked like - i would not care at all for those kids who were upset at seeing her face at the cinema. Its purely the wording that should be edited." *so you dont care about upsetting other children....... but you do want the wording edited. Huh??*
and as for 'not forget what she looked like'. Not bloody likely - she's everywhere (and rightly so) but our kids aren't going to be the ones that find her - and I doubt very much she'll be found in UK. Maybe this film (with 'snatched from her bed' removed) should be shown on planes shortly before landing abroad.
Haychee, you said
" I question how long you would be able to keep the secrecy up. A younger preschool child is obviously easier to keep protected from such information. "
Well that is the point isn't it? The majority of the parents that have protested about this are concerned about younger, pre-school children.
I have told my 4 yr old a very watered down version of events (I wish I hadn't now because she was upset about it) but I very deliberately kept from her the information that Madeleine was taken from her bed. That is information that a 4 year old does not need - knowing it will not protect her from "stranger danger", or wandering off. I want her to feel safe and happy in her own bed, much as I did as a child, and maintain that every parent has the right to decide what their child needs to know.
This has been so blown out of proportion - everyone comes charging in to protect the McCanns but nobody is attacking them. I bet they haven't told the twins that Madeleine was abducted from her bed.
NKF - lol at the frontlash!!!! And I love this new concept of bolloxology
part of why mumsnet is priceless, and the Skygroupy trolls will never get it...
Ah, kind of Jekyl and Hyde type thing..
Anyway - I'm officially removing myself from all this Shrek/Madeleine insanity. Isn't there a pledge to take somewhere?
me thinks that the trolls are the same person
I know, I was so reluctant to post that last message and feed the troll but FFS, glaringly obvious or what?
Still, she hasn't replied - maybe she is actually rethinking her position....
Then again....probably not.
your wasting you breath trying to explain yourself fan. SO many people have tried to explain about the wording but they dont WANT to listen. banging your head against a brick wall mate.
"Im glad the news came from me the reassurring parent who can put it into the right perspective, and can be there to discuss their fears at the time when they learned of it."
That's exactly the point some of the parents on this site have been trying to make!
Don't you see haychee - showing the ad with no warning, just before a film, when there would be no opportunity for discussion straight afterwards took away the right for parents to do as you have described?
"Whatever it takes, whoever it upsets this campaign must continue."
And you see that is the point on which we differ. If it was my child missing of course I would want to do anything and wouldn't care who it upset, that doesn't mean I should be allowed to. I do not believe that the tiny, infinitesimally small chance that the advert shown before an audience of young children would directly result in finding Madeleine alive justifies upsetting and frightening young children. If there was a good chance that it would then yes, it probably would be justified, but surely anyone can see that the chance that it would help is incredibly remote ?
Yes Haychee, And by the way AbRoller we are not 'thick as shite'. Haychee I hope you have remembered, to use puctuation.
We were slated on another thread by these people.
As I was saying, the advert was aimed at parents, NOT CHILDREN. I think you are all over reacting, beacuse children would have taken no notice at all of this advert anyhow. I certainly know mine were too interested in their popcorn.
And by the time the film had finished, after seeing Donkey and Shrek they would have forgotten about it.
And by the way I am not a trolI am a fucking OGRE who is going to eat your children.
It seems that there are alot of us who disagree with the withdrawl of madeleines ad from the cinemas. Im glad alot of us have told the cinemas to keep it on!
Im still shocked and suprised that so many of you want it taken off but at least now there is a recognition that there is also alot of us who want to keep it on.
Whatever it takes, whoever it upsets this campaign must continue. If it upsets your child then you are just going to have to learn to live with it and deal with it!
Life is ugly im afriad and noone wants our children disturbed by such news but what can we do? Hide it from them? i question how long you would be able to keep the secrecy up. A younger preschool child is obviously easier to keep protected from such information. But, children who attend schools and mix with other children and their conversation is unsupervised will undoubtedly find out some snippets of information.
My question still remains for those parents who do not want their kids to know of anything about it, how will you feel if they hear or overhear some of the story and have it twisted up in their head as to what happened to madeleine. I still wholeheartedly beleive that discussing it with your child asap before they learn of it by themselves wouold be the preferable option.
I do agree that the wording of the ad should be tailored to suit a younger child so as not scare them unduley but children cannot be hidden from the story - its a very hard task to achieve. I know for a fact that my daughters school (she is 6) have talked of madeleine and prayed for her safe return in the school assembly. Also the kids talk to eachother, older ones talk to te younger ones etc, so i just cant comprehend how some parents beleive they can keep it a secret.
Im glad i chose to talk to my kids when the story first broke, im glad they have the facts from the start and therefore cannot be twisted out of proportion in the playground. Im also glad that they knew at the earliest point as anything they may or may not hear from that point will not be new shocking news that may agreeably have upset them. Im glad the news came from me the reassurring parent who can put it into the right perspective, and can be there to discuss their fears at the time when they learned of it.
Of course none of us want our children to know that such horrible nasty things can happen but this is the real world! We do not live in a fairytale.
Much to some of your amazement, because i told them about it doesnt mean that it go on and on and on about it it was very brief and i have not mentioned it again since unless they have bought it up.
I hope that maybe an agreement can be made where the ad continues to be shown but the wording changed to suit a younger child. But i think some parents here are very hard to please and they do not want their kids to find out any of the story which to me is ridiculous!
The greater the publicity the more heightened the awareness and the greater the possibility of finding the poor kid. If it were my daughter id want everyone to be looking for her and not to forget what she looked like - i would not care at all for those kids who were upset at seeing her face at the cinema. Its purely the wording that should be edited.
Oh no i understand that it is no use shielding them from reality but I am flummoxed by some of the comments. For instance what would there be to gain from telling a 2,3,4 year old that bad people snatched Madeleine from her bed at night, it isn't going to keep them safer than before or make them more aware or cautious of strangers, its just going to make them frightened of going to bed at night, there is no value at all to a child's safety of giving them that information, its like saying Oh if someone comes in your room at night they might take you, hows that going to help a child who god forbid is in the similar situation as Madeleine was that night. Thats not about wrapping them in cotton wool, the world is a bad enough place with enough worries for children, their bed is the one place in the world they should feel totally and completely safe.
By the way, the marina is very far away from the appartments on Praia da Luz, no way she could get there by herserf...
Well, parents cannot turn the world as beautifful as it should be. If it rains and there is a flood outside you cannot prevent your child to see what´s happening. I Cannot change the world, I can only stand by my children and do my best. This is our world, unfortunately wrong and sad and violent. We can only try to help our kids to live in it the best way they can - but not away from reality...
well CM lots of horrid things could have happened, she could have woke up wondered off and been snatched, she could have been stolen for illegal adoption or sold (which they have already admitted is rife in portugal), she could have woke up and gone to find her mummy and daddy and fell into the marina, we just don't know.
But none of this has anything to do with the point people were trying to make which is it is our decision as a parent of a very small child what information to give them and in what way we tell them, not the medias, not the cinemas and not other parents.
Her and thousands of others Chikenmother. That's what riles me. All these cases are terrible, and 99% of them go pretty much unreported. Actually, I think the relentless campaign has reached saturation point and could be counterproductive.
aliens? someone to grow up a child? a stolen child?? Isn´t it pervertion? There are no aliens in Algarve, I`m sure, and a girl doesn´disappear like that for no reason or by herself. Someone took her away, what else could have happened?
Actually chikenmother, no one even knows if it was 'pervertes' who took the child. It could have been someone who wanted to bring up a child as their own daughter.
Or it could have been aliens. For all anyone knows.
I think we all would Chikenmother, no one was critisising the Mccanns for wanting to find their child, I dont think thats the point people are trying to make
I am with the McCann. If it were my daughter I would do anything to get her back. This is an horrific thing to hapen to a little girl, all the world shoud try to do something to catch such pervertes who did that.
Awen I can't figure out where to put an intro post this board has sooo many sections lol.
I have to say that when i found the troll spray picture very funny
Just spent ages writing a reply to the people on the Times website trying to state exactly why showing the ad to very small children is a bad idea and the laptop died just before I was about to send it.
I am so annoyed about this whole thing - how dare anyone else assume that my 3 year old son deserves to know that he might be 'snatched from his bed' - I know the trauma that would cause. I KNOW my son and how he will react - after trying to delicately introduce the notion that maybe running off when we're out isn't quite such a good idea as there are one or two (not ten a penny on every street corner waiting to pounce) not so nice people in the world, he was pretty traumatised. This was weeks ago, when MM was first taken and the other night after I thought he was asleep, I put the milk bottles out. He heard me open the front door and was in some state fearing I was leaving him alone.
I'm very thankful the ad wasn't shown on Saturday when we took DS and his two friends (4 and 5 years old) to see the film - I really would have been livid.
May try the Times thing again if I can summon up the energy but at least they posted my comment yesterday trying to explain the simple concept that it's the loss of control us parents are objecting to. I'm just so angry at the assumptions all of these people are making, that we are cold and heartless for not wanting to subject our children to trauma.
Trolling can be fun. It's a bit like kicking an anthill- stand back and watch everyone go bananas.
Mind you, to troll properly you have not to give a fuck about the subject, because otherwise you end up piling back into the conversation and forgetting to enjoy the view.
NFK i think that they think that they are the first to do it iyswim?
<snort> just sprayed screen with wotsits
Abroller, unfortunately that's what debate outside of mumsnet is so often like.
That's why some of us are sadly addicted.
Why do trolls troll? Does anyone know? Is it like playing knock on the door and running away?
Because DP was watching shite sci fi stuff and I think we found a non troll Yay a newbie. ShellandJessica - you should start a thread to introduce yourself.
Also I like to taunt the trolls <hangs head in shame>
These people are thick as shite. The point is that WE as parents can choose when to tell OUR children about stranger danger in a way that suits us and in a digestable form for our individual childrens needs. It is not the job of the cinema to educate my child.
I will choose when to tell my child the facts of life, I don't need a surprise close-up big screening of 'the act' before a U-rated movie to help me ffs.
This is about our rights as a parents to decide what is appropriate for our child.
I've never seen, on display, such utter horse shit and deliberate avoidance of the opposing POV in all my life.
Can't you just all fuck off? Really, you are depriving many villages somewhere of their idiots!
Maybe there will now be a backlash against the backlash. A frontlash?
why has a troll been allowed to stir a 500+ posted discussion? i thought that we didn't feed the trolls round here?
she is the apparant mother of six children....she should be busey careng for them instead of trying to stir up ill informed arguments.
why have you given her your time?
quote "Not advertising Madeleine's plight is pretending it does not happen, this is not Disneyland this is the real world. You can explain sensitively to children."
Errm but isn't this advert actually not giving you chance to explain sensitively to your children by attempting to do it for you
I agree with what someone else said, there isn't an adult I know that doesn't know that Madeleine is still missing, what good will my four year old knowing do?!
The comments by FM and others seem to be about telling us how to parent our children rather than the benefit our children knowing Madeleine is not only missing but has been took by a bad person could possibly have
What, I wonder, was the actual POINT of this ad in the first place? Every sentient adult knows of the McCann case as it is, and the Evil Mystery Abductors are probably a bit too busy to take the kid they stole to some suburban cinema anyway. It's very unlikely that Madeleine McCann is still alive, and the money spent on some of these campaigns could surely be put to better use - such as helping children who are suffering from poverty, hunger or illtreatment worldwide but who don't happen to have well-connected photogenic parents..
BEWARE this image may be disturbing.
Oh Sky are taking this tack because they love competitive grieving
It gives them loads and loads and loads of cheap film and cheap copy.
Money money money
Yes may you all burn in hell you filthy muthas - we must all neglect our childrens needs at a time like this! It's what the McGann's would want
My god...just have to add my two penneth in now as this really winding me up...
I feel like some idiot has just come in a shouted at me and a group of my girlfriends while we sat chatting in the pub. Bloody marvellous that our discussions provoke action, can't say that happens too often over a coffee morning (as a yummy mummy I attend 4 of these a day)
If all these angry newbies who have come to wave their fists at us want to stay a while, listen to some conversations and maybe join in a few (without caps lock on) you may learn a few things...
Then again, your probably all busy teaching your kids what the real world is all about...enjoy your fruit shoots...
How styooopid is that 'backlash'. Saying that it educates our children about stranger danger!!
It terrifies them with a scenario they would be totally powerless to do anything about.
What terrifies me is the thickness of the very thick people who think we need to dump our own terror onto our children!
Do they really think by forcing their kids to hear about a child being snatched that they're somehow bravely crusading for the plight of the McCanns?? Wrongo.
quote from 'backlash'
"I find it quite naive of any mother who thinks they need to shield their child from this awful truth. We live in a dangerous society, and unfortunately, stranger danger is a real fact of life."
its her i tell ya
i have never been to disneyland.
FGS that article is pissing me off.
there is a reason i havent told my kids details about Madeleine. because they are too upset enough already. its not wrapping them up in cotton wool, or i na bubble. they are kids and deserve to have some innocence, they have already had too much trauma in their lives.
<<snort>> at kitkat abductors. And child detectives.
I am just really looking forward to the time when all the 4 and 5 year olds who have seen this advert get together and turn detective and find Madeleine.
I am thinking a sort of 1970s Children's Film Foundation type film featuring bumbling policemen and incompetent crooks.
Only unfortunately real life's not like that.
Fecking 'ell. We apparntly support junk food adverts now. Also didnt realise shrek = child abduction.
<trots back to disneyland>
Quote from the backlash article:
"I can't believe that these parents are quite happy to let their kids sit through junk food ads but then complain when an ad is shown which educates their children to real dangers," added Mac from Ipswich.
....she says as he 4 year old son is snatched away by a rogue KitKat...
haychee went to sky to complain
wow - so that makes me a yummy mummy then
am i a yummy mummmy ooooooooooooo
backlash against ad pull
yummy mummys dont give their kids fruit shoots.
Geez this is winding me right up now!
I can just imagine freakymum hearing about whatever they're saying on sky news and deciding to ...jolly well... come over here and give us a piece of her mind!
Well how very dare you jump on here, accuse all these parents of being INSANE and SELFISH and lecture us on how to deal with our own children?
You obviously know FUCK ALL about the parents on this site and I for one would thank you to keep your gob shut.
What the hell is a yummy mummy anyway? Pretty sure I'm not one tbh...
Worth a try, Tamum - rewrite it in txt spk with lots of exclamation marks, oh, and use CAPITALS!!!!!
May get through then...
here you go, elesbells
Yes. And so does the ad. Because obviously the natural audience for Shrek is also the world's finest detective force. When they can get their snouts out of the popcorn that is.
I think that the main point is that these posters seem to be under the impression that having a go at mumsnetters actually constitutes helping the McCanns.....
Shall I try again with lots of exclamation marks then?
who has the can of troll spray handy?
I doubt any of them can grasp the concept, tbh, Tamum.
It would seem contradictory tamum if any of these posters actually read and absorbed the information posted in response to their rants.
you are very welcome shellandjessica. Plenty of us opinionated types in here. Just have to develop a thick skin or be able to flounce well If you wonder what all the acronyms mean there is a link up top to them
If I can just get this right for a moment the main argument from the many new posters is as follows:
- We are all smug selfish mums for not wanting to help the McCanns in any way we can
- If we had any sense we would have warned our children about strangers and danger
- This would protect our children and then we would have no need to worry about them seeing the advert
- Ergo (and this is the bit I have a problem with) if only the McCanns had taught their children about stranger danger then this wouldn't have happened
How exactly does this equate to supporting the McCann family? Doesn't this seem a teeny bit self-contradictory to any of them?
Freakymum I didnt use the F word in mine which was directed at you. But then again it doesnt appear that you are particularly reasonable so dont expect you to respond.
I called you rude because you were. I never claimed not to be. You threw the first stone. Don't give what you can't take.
Suspect the freak only turned up to shout at us and has now hopefully pissed off back to wherever it came from.
another new one with attitude! saw the news and thought you would join in did you love?
pmsl at ab's bolloxology
well you did say Bloody and you are missing the point.
Is this the thread where a lot of posts ended with the words "up yours". For a while, i thought I'd strayed on to the bumsex debate.
salsmum on Wed 04-Jul-07 22:04:51
people are burnt in house fires every year
but i would'nt want a 4 or 5 year old seeing an image/film of freddie krugar.
its all about choices.
At least I don't resort to using the 'F' word in my post...and you have the cheek to call me rude!
Is this the thread for us to come and deliberately miss the point?
cannot understand how people can read the thread and still churn out such rubbish.
Thanks for the welcome Awen
I haven't yet, I'm still finding my feet on the topic setup, I actually didn't know you existed until I was reading sky news this morning and being the opinionated cow I am I had to come and put my two pennies worth in lol
Going to have a look now
Yes, FreakyMum, because if you write most of your post in CAPITAL LETTERS it makes it mean more. Or maybe you think it makes it less rude.
It doesn't, by the way.
A missing child, who has nothing to do with you, does not give you any right to come here, accusing posters of being all sorts of things from not wanting to see an advert.
Calling people selfish? So tell me, what are YOU doing to find Madeleine McCann?
Get of your high horse and fuck right off.
morningpaper - had to explain to DD about burglars the other week - ORT stage 4 books introduce them!
people are burnt in house fires every year
but i would'nt want a 4 or 5 year old seeing an image/film of freddie krugar.
its all about choices.
ShellandJessica - have you managed to check out other areas in mumsnet yet? Is a very good site Oh and welcome btw
My DD who is 4 came up to me today and said "Mummy, when do burglars come? Do they come when you are asleep?"
I thought this was a bit odd but I reassured her and a few hours later I had a <lightbulb> moment - she saw Shrek at the local Odeon last weekend.
FreakyMum my child is autistic and will not talk to anyone outside the family/very close friends as it is, if i rammed it in her face as you appear to be suggesting that Madeleine didn't get lost from her mummy and daddy but was snatched by a bad person she would absolutely explode every time a person that she didn't know came near here whether I was there or not as she cannot make the differentiation between people she doesn't know and "bad people" even if its someone i know , She still knows that there are naughty people in the world and if she does get lost she knows to look for a police man/street warden/security right away and if she cant see one of those she knows to go straight into a shop especially those that has a balloon picture in the window and goes straight to the counter (we have a child safety scheme in action where i live)
I was talking to my stepdad about this today. His friend at work took his 4 and 5 year old dds to the cinema and they saw the ad. They were both really worried and upset by it. They keep asking their dad if they will be snatched, if someone will steal them, who the bad man is who stole the little girl.
Do you think that any ADULT in that cinema did NOT know the plight of the McCanns? Do you think that ad shown to a bunch of children in Norwich has helped to find her?
Do you think that there were a couple of hundred small children scared by that ad.
Aggressive newbies - if you look on MN, you'll find mnetters running poster campaigns, lighting candles, and trying to find ways of helping. Don't leap on here and scream your ill thought out opinions before actually finding out what you're arguing against.
3andNomore - PMSL laughing at your post.
Look, no-one is sitting in selfish smug la-la land. How dare you.
We are telling our children about how to be aware of potential danger - but how should they be aware in their sleep? The point this thread is making is that it does not help to tell small children they may be snatched from their beds.
And, let's face it, no-one knows whether that is actually what happened.
If you honestly think that any parent on here is not aware of the dangers their children face then you are the one who is deluded.
I'm amazed at the self-righteousness of people who think they have a monopoly on caring just because they can spell 'Maddie'. F8ck right off.
shellandjessica - what a well worded post.
Would those who think the ad is a good thing to show before Shrek want to see an ad for Warchild, a charity that works with abducted children in places like the Congo? Or something about children who live on rubbish dumps. Even if it was sensitively worded?
Very well FM but it was a choice that you made before going to the cinema. How fucking dare you tell me or anyone else what is good or not good for their child to know.
I will decide what to tell my child, how much to tell her and at a time that is appropriate so that I am in a position to answers questions at that time.
As for the 'what if it was my child' inference, yes I would do anything to get the general adult population to hear, understand and help me not little children.
You take yourself and your nasty comments and take a long walk off a short plank, you plank.
<<spitting at your bolloxology>>
Freakymum - wow I am a ymuumymummy. Thanks for that.
Oh and if it was such an unreasonable a request to make regarding the advert not to be screened for U/PG shows then why have several companies pulled the advert. Ooooooo I think it is because they arent hysterical women scrambling on the band wagon of grief.
Not a case of I'm alright Jack, but more a case of let us tell our children in a way they will understand. Which many of us did without using terminology such as snatched from bed! Secondly many mumsnetters are involved in many charitable socieities both personally and professionally and thirdly your views lose all respect when you voice them in such an agressive and abusive manner.
freaky, read tyhe thread, theres a love.
The child's name is Madeleine, not Maddy or Maddie. I think it is only right to use her correct name when discussing her.
Freaky, why don't you read the thread before you jump in shouting the odds?
For all you Yummy Mummys out there who are DISGUSTED at the Madeleine McCann ad shown as a prelude to Shrek 3, I have only one thing to say....
GET A BLOODY LIFE.
HOW SELFISH CAN YOU GET? Sitting there with your beautiful child in the nice cosy cinema with your "I'm all right Jack" attitude. Have some compassion.
You must be insane not to make your children aware (at whatever age) that they need to be careful in the big wide world. Better that your kids have some awareness than NONE. What on earth is wrong with telling the kids about 'snatching'? If they know it exists, they are better prepared.
Bet my bottom dollar ONE THING. If Madeleine was your child, wouldn't you do everything in your power to publicise her abduction?
GET A LIFE AND SUPPORT THE McCANNS rather than BELLYACHING!!!
PS. And before you accuse me of not knowing what I'm talking about... I have 2 kids of my own and we have discussed Maddy's disappearance at length.
Sorry, Moo, I meant.
And you've said.
scc, it's a small independent cinema. Tbh, it seemed to go over my youngest's head (he's 5) and my 10 year old knows about it already (from school...) and we've talked about how sad it is (and how rare) and that we hope they find her.
But I agree with everyone on this thread who has said it is up to parents to choose how much (if any) of any kind of news they let their children know about. I don't let my 5 year old see the news and he wasn't aware of Madeleine McCann until today. Which, afaiac, is how it should be - I don't think he's very likely to be instrumental in finding her.
please excuse my spellings below. im shattered lol it should have been videos of shooting not shoutings
Hi Im new here.
I can see where people are coming from and I understand that it spreads the word that this child is still missing. I don't see an issue with older children and like someone said it was probably on newsround but to have it shoved in the face of a small child 3/4 years old is enough to make them terrified.
I had told my (just) four year old that Madeline has lost her mummy and daddy and that they are trying for find her as she is a sensitive little girl who obsesses about things that scare her and I know that she would have picked up on the news somewhere, like i said I CHOSE to tell her and answer what questions she had to HER LEVEL OF UNDERSTANDING. When I went to see Shrek today the advert was on and she was happy with the answer I again gave her to her questions. However there were children in there that where asking questions and quite distressed about bad men snatching her etc and I do think that that should have been the parents choice whether or not to tell very smalol children about it not a cinema's. Fair enough on another classification other than U.
As for the comment from the person at the bottom I am perfectly aware that the world is not made of marshmallows and my child will be exposed to bad things but she has just turned four, whats the next step i start showing her videos of shoutings so she knows that goes on as well!
My heart goes out to her family and I deeply hope she is found safe and well but I do not believe people are being insensitive wanting to decide what THEY want to tell their kids.
Anyway enough of the essay from me.
what cinema moo? odeon have stopped showing it apparently, no idea on others.
The ad is still running for U films - I just saw it at a screening of Shrek the Third at my local cinema.
I've somehow missed all of this. Serves me right for not checking out Talk for a week or so.
I agree that parents taking children to U rated films should not have to face ads which describe a child being snatched from their bed. If the ad was there to raise funds and raise awareness, it should have been toned down so as not to frighten a U film audience IMHO.
Can I add that I let my son first play out with friends in our quiet road when he was around four years old (he's now 13). Giving ds this freedom went hand in hand with telling him early on about the dangers of abduction and strangers as well as other stuff about safely etc. I made that choice because of the the way ds was (in my opinion). If I'd had a less active, more sensitive child or lived in a different, less friendly street, then I may have decided differently.
I can totally understand why many parents would not want to expose a young child in a cimena to the Madeline ad. It's a decision they are entitled to make as they are the best judge of their child's reactions to it.
i'm stil laughing that she said up yours, to me
My god - what the fuck has happened on here, I don; think I've ever seen it get so nasty and personal.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinions and to raise their family the in the way they see best.
Who the hell is haychee and where does she come from? Are you serious - you think there is a paedophile on every street corner to take your lo away from you? GET A GRIP
you're right. sorry.
Good news BP.
Common sense reigns once more .
Just wonder what the next stunt will be
Just wonder what the next stunt will be
THE AD IS NO LONGER RUNNING IN SCREENINGS FOR CHILDREN
THEY HAVE PULLED IT FROM ALL U/PG FILMS
You are right, it is "a plea for help to find her"
laneydaye - 5yo DD didn't even notice it TBH. She was too busy messing with her popcorn and talking with daddy to pay any attention to the ads. Lasts about 2 minutes maximum. Does use the words snatched and still missing, which is what some people seemed concerned about as they could grab a child's attention and potentially scare them.
Hello, I wasnt against my kids seeing the ad before the new Shrek film but after reading a few of the threads today thought i'd better check to what extent the ad is not suitable for a ds6.5 and dd2.8.
Is it going to be scary or disturbing for them?
I thought it was just a plea for help to find her but now am not so sure..
All I can add is that as a child I had a frighteningly overactive imagination and would lose sleep over the smallest things. I cannot imagine how terrified I would have been knowing that children could be snatched from their beds whilst they slept.
I get that you want your children to be aware of dangers and scary people, but this seems to have been taken out of proportion. I wouldn't lie to a child that asked be about Madeleine McCann, but what value can it possibly have to tell a 4 year old that they might be snatched from their beds in the middle of the night?
They can't run away, they are ASLEEP FFS! The cannot be vigilant or stay close to you. This is something that they have no control over.
Of course the McCanns want their daughter back. I fail to see how advertising to a bunch of primary school children would help this happen.
take your kids to shrek 3 (though it's not very good), mumof2monsters -- thanks to MN the trailer has been withdrawn from screenings open to children.
There is a difference between being snatched from bed, and snatched in the street. If the ad had said it was a appeal for MM who went missing on holiday in Portugal I would consider that acceptable. If it said she wandered out in the night and got snatched that would be whole different situation to BEING SNATCHED IN HER SLEEP, ffs!
Please guys give bigmamie a break she is only stating her opinion and we all have them. Please don't ridicule her. I have my opinion which is this...I would not want to take my children to the cinema whilst they are showing the madeleine film because I have only briefly explained to my children that madeleine is missing from her mummy and daddy and no-one knows where to find her. I have not told them she was snatched or abducted from her bed. I cannot tell them that otherwise they too may think that they are not safe in their beds.
I have supported the madeleine mccann story from day 1 and I realise that a four year old child is missing here and think of her everyday and hope she will be back with her parents and by not taking my children to the cinema because of it I am not trying to forget but want to protect my dc from the dangers of the world for as long as I can.
No child of 4 goes away like this bby her own, of course. If she wasn´t snached from her bed she was snatched from the pkace she was BY SOMEONE, not by herself. Obvious, isn´t it KooKaBurra??
Oh blimey !
(never done the beating head against the desk but thinking about it)
my point is that it is ridiculous that people here are lecturing others about THE way to keep children safe and informed when the reality is that surely a good parent makes a sophisticated series of judgements about their own child, the threat, the threat versus benefit ratio the, potential fear of their child etc etc....and our own values as a parent
We warn our children according to an ever moving series of factors so any lectures from one parent to another about what they should be doing is nearly always going to be a dumb idea.
Some of the people here saying that a child should be taught to scream if a stranger comes into their room probably then hang up a stocking on christmas eve.....
If you can't find that funny I don't think you are trying.
Is there evidence that she was 'snatched from her room in her sleep'? Seems more likely she wandered out - but the McCanns are obviousy not admitting that as a possibility. I object to small children in cinmeas being exposed to the idea that bed is not safe(some of whom will be at 'party outings' being told this,so the poor HOST parent has to deal with their terror and bewilderment at this advert.)
This thoughtlessness and sheer lack of sensitivity to OTHER people's children is creating a backlash against the McCanns whoi intially had everyone's sympathy.
lol...I read the op's name first as Bigamie not Bigmamie, lolololol
KooKaBurra, because there is someone capable of snatching a child we all shoud be asking ourselves about the humanity we belong to. The real monstre is who enters a bedroom, isn´t it? THAT is the question that horrifies us!
kookaburra, i expect you are joking, no one feels that, but it is in bad taste.
Are you mixing up things?? Santa with paedophiles?? Seems pretty stupid, isn´t it?
The McCanns have a bloody cheek expecting to spread their misery to every other small child (except their own toddlers, of course) when it was their own selfishness that started up this whole circus.
Bescaue they are suffering, no-one else is allowed a minutes peace.
and then how many of us tell our children that once a year a big jolly stranger will tip toe quietly into our room at night and leave us presents IF WE ARE GOOD .....
(ROFL at this thread especially whoever it was who snottily said she had just come here to post and explain some stuff to all us stupid people so we get it all right just like she does....)
wannabe - I DO talk to my children about the dangers of Uncle Jim. Sad, but necessary and true.
It's a sad fact in the world...
You can NEVER be 100% certain about anyone other than yourself. So as a result we talk about what is appropriate and what isn't and what lies "bold" people tell you so that you won't tell mum, etc. etc. etc.
I don't terrify my children and I've told them in my time and theirs.
I think there are lots of dangers in the world (traffic, carbon monoxide, broken glass, predatory strangers, bird flu, predatory friends and relations, dangerous dogs, escaped leopards, escalators, complications from chicken pox, terrorists, fire, the Ebola virus, open water, possibility of suddenly developing a life-threatening allergy). Each of these has a complicated web of factors -- how likely is it, in the world in general, to be a problem? How likely is it, specifically, to be a problem for your child? How serious are the likely consequences if the Bad Thing happens? What steps can be taken against it? How easy is it for a child to avoid the risky situation or to reduce the risk? How do you personally feel about it (it's hard to factor out emotional responses, no matter how illogical) -- personal experiences may factor in here?
Each of us has to consider all of these, and our individual children, and decide what messages it is most helpful to give our children. So, for example, I suspect that we'd all warn them regularly about traffic but would be unlikely to make a big deal out of the risk of Ebola or escaped leopards unless there were particular local circumstances that warrant it. What we say about any of the others is going to vary.
I don't think it's helpful to mock others for their choices, whether that choice is to pick one of those dangers and make a big deal out of it with their children or not to dwell on that danger at this stage in their child's development because after due consideration of all the factors they don't consider it to be appropriate. We're not all going to agree, of course, just as we're not going to agree on a whole host of parenting issues, but the fact that someone disagrees with you doesn't mean that they haven't thought carefully about the question or that it's OK to abuse them for it.
Children must not understand everything, thát´s because they need a mum to saty there for them. Sometimes they must do what we tell them to do no matter what.
When you go to cinema and see Madeleine´´s picture perhaps you can tell your kids that is serious crime and they must saty alert. They must also know that if something bad woud ever hapen to them YOU will look for them all over the world to.. Not need to lie about the real world we live in, just adapt the best we can.
CRIKEY what a long thread! Well done to Wannabe for pointing out that our kids are (really big statistic that I've forgotten ) more likely to get hurt or kileed in or by a car than by a paedophile! Maybe they should show a film of that at the start of Shrek...'Children, did your mummy/daddy/carer strap you into a appropraite child restraint, graded good or excellent not cheap-from-Argos on the way here?' Seriously, I see people ranting on and on about paedophiles etc, with a cigarette in one hand and chucking their kids untethered into the back of an old banger with the other!
You werw talking about Madeleine´s campany but now you aret talking about what??? Can´t understand...
..."Stay close to mummy...... because I said so"
My kids will stay close because they do as they are told - and if they don't, we go home.
If they get lost (unlikely) they know to stay where they are - I'll be retracing my steps to come back to them.
Yes, the world can be a rotten place and has rotten people in it, but 'ready for the taking' is just sooooo over the top. A kidnapper or paedo on every corner is just about as likely as a policeman on every corner.
haychee - you never answer posts you don't like the sound of, just harp on to the last person you attacked. What happens when your kids can't find a policeman - and as for 'someone in authority like that', like who exactly?
(and FWIW I've avoided this thread all day but cannot stand the obnoxiousness shown by newbies - I'm pretty new myself but even I know some of the histories of the regular posters and would not dream of attacking their choices. The OP was out of order, but pretty thick by all accounts (as if anyone with a brain would immediately believe something they read in a newspaper without checking it out first), haychee and biddzy01 just came here to rant and cause trouble....)
I grew up in South Africa and went to an Afrikaans school. The south africans very much believe that one should respect one's elders, and that talking back to a grown-up is a very wrong thing to do, well of course I agree with that but...
We had a teacher at school who was a bit too touchy feely if you get my drift. would stand behind you and put his hands over your shoulders moving downwards - you get the picture. I would have told him where to go regardless of the fact he was an adult, and so he never tried it on with me, I would have slapped him without a second thought. But he did try it on with a younger girl who told me about it. He'd touched her and told her it was their "secret", and although she felt uncomfortable she felt she would be wrong to stand up to him because he was an adult and it would be disrespectful. I told her bollocks to that and to, firstly tell him to get stuffed if he tried it again, and secondly to report it, which she did. Suffice to say, said teacher departed in rather a hurry to "take up a position elsewhere" (yeh right).
And yet we were all taught at school to be wary of strangers who might hurt us, and yet the ones who wanted to cause harm were right under our noses and because of the whole respect thing it was considered wrong to tell them to get lost.
We are on this site because we have children, we are on this site because we love our children. We are all ADULTs who do what we feel is best for our children. That is bound to differ depending on circumstances etc etc. It is a sad world when, as happened to us recently, a little girl falls off slide, i was busy with DD, DP didnt feel that he could offer any help in case people were suspicious!!! I comforted little girl and went and found her grandad with her.
and there are a lot of people that are known to children that harm them. more so than strangers in fact, far, far more, and yet I don't see many people warning their children of the dangers of talking to uncle jim for instance (uncle jim purely an axample name of course not an actual person iykwim)
fair enough, and I see nothing wrong with the principle of knowing that not all strangers are nice, they're not, after all, I also see nothing wrong with the idea of encouraging one's children to find a policeman or go into a shop etc if they're lost. But I think there's a fine line between telling children not to get into a car with a stranger or accept sweets or go off with a stranger, and telling them not to talk to them altogether. The lady in the supermarket check-out is, after all, a stranger? the teacher at school starts out as, a stranger? There are many other instances where talking to strangers is perfectly acceptable. And strangers certainly aren't the only dangers in the world - what about cars.