Maybe we should be very glad that Obama is going after all?

(328 Posts)
Jupiter2Mars Tue 15-Nov-16 05:16:32

.. and is being replaced with someone with a very different outlook.

This is what Obama said yesterday:

" And then, in Germany, I’ll visit with Chancellor Merkel, who’s probably been my closest international partner these past eight years. I’ll also signal our solidarity with our closest allies, and express our support for a strong, integrated, and united Europe. It’s essential to our national security and it's essential to global stability. And that’s why the Transatlantic Alliance and the NATO Alliance have endured for decades under Democratic and Republican administrations. "

sanshiqi Tue 15-Nov-16 05:27:37

What's wrong with that?

It's just a shame that a strong, integrated and united Europe doesn't include us anymore.

Jupiter2Mars Tue 15-Nov-16 05:36:53

What's wrong with that? Sorry, I thought it didn't need spelling out, but:-

Britain is supposed to have a special relationship, but Germany is described as the closest partner. he could have said nothing but he chose to name a "closest partner" even though he wasn't asked.

The view on the EU is also a problem given that the UK is leaving it. If Obama's US has EU membership as a prerequisite, and we need to start strengthening our non-EU relationships then its just as well that Obama's America will be consigned to history in January.

SharingMichelle Tue 15-Nov-16 05:44:19

I'm pretty sure the UK's "special relationship" with the USA has a lot in common with my "special relationship" with Keanu Reeves.

lostinthedarkplayground Tue 15-Nov-16 05:47:32

Blimey, little englander much. He's my best friend, not yours. <pouts>
Germany pretty much IS Europe. And what with all the PM swapping in the UK of late, it's probably not far wrong to say he thanks his lucky stars that Angela Merkel has been the safe pair of hands that Europe needs.
The U.K. Might have been a big player at one point, but in European terms it sucks balls. He's probably also got the right hump that Brexit gave all the Trumpeters the impetus to crack on and vote, and doesn't much fancy the UK as role model thing. I'd be dissociating myself from that shit show as well. Look what we started!
Good old Angela, my bezzie mate. Calm in a crisis. Perfect stateswoman. And made it bloody clear in her 'welcome trump' speech that she wouldn't accept any shenanigans, whilst TM gushed like a fountain.

Hellmouth Tue 15-Nov-16 05:49:31

Lol that "special relationship" was really Blair kissing Bush's arse, and every UK politician since has been trying to capitalise on it.

Several international leaders have said we should stay in the EU, not just Obama. Don't be so precious about it.

Haudyerwheesht Tue 15-Nov-16 05:49:44

You sound like a petulant child OP

ftmsoon Tue 15-Nov-16 05:49:47

It's been widely reported that the UK no longer has a 'special relationship' with the US. They were using us an in to Europe, Cameron starting the referendum ended it. Also Germany effectively run the EU, of course Merkel is his go-to, doesn't mean it's reciprocated.

Jupiter2Mars Tue 15-Nov-16 05:52:07

Haudyerwheesht - is that all you can say? No reasoned argument, just a childish insult?

ZeroDarkHurty Tue 15-Nov-16 05:53:30

This thread has given me a laugh. Lots of countries talk about their 'special relationship' with the US and US leaders use similar language when speaking about those relationship to the media from those countries. It means nothing; it's polite post-summit media-pleasing waffle. Britain without Europe is hardly special to the US.

DoctorDonnaNoble Tue 15-Nov-16 05:56:49

Indeed. The true 'special relationship' was Regan and Thatcher who were actually friends. Then Major and Bush Sr got on well too and visited each other after losing power. They were actual friendships. The phrase then continued so people could fool themselves that we were still politically important on our own. We're not. We're too small. And that's why fighting for a reformed EU was so important.

Jupiter2Mars Tue 15-Nov-16 05:57:18

I agree that Germany effectively runs the EU, or at least determines EU policy, with some help from France.

But are the EU and Europe one and the same thing? Why is it "essential to <America's> national security" to have a united Europe. And does united have to mean in a economic union?

Merkel has been a strong leader, but she's also on her way out too.

I think the point is that he chose to make this statement, knowing full well that in "honouring" Merkel, there were half a dozen other leaders across the globe who were simultaneously being slapped down.

HopelesslydevotedtoGu Tue 15-Nov-16 06:00:32

But I do want there to be "a strong, integrated, and united Europe" even if we can't be in it, because I think that's what is best and safest for the world, and I place that above the UK's interests

Jupiter2Mars Tue 15-Nov-16 06:01:13

Ok, I'll accept that the special relationship tag is probably groundless. Maybe Thatcher and Reagan held it as true, but you could hardly say it about any other pair of leaders, including Churchill and Roosevelt.

However, the point remains that it was an undiplomatic thing to say, and Britian does need to beef up its non-EU relationships, but apparently it would be impossible to do so with the US, if Obama's view prevailed. Which it won't as the focus has already turned away from him.

Jupiter2Mars Tue 15-Nov-16 06:03:44

strong, integrated, and united Europe
Ok take those four words:
Strong - we all want that.
Integrated - it depends on what kind of integration
United - what kind of union?
Europe - is that EU or the continent, because there are lots of European countries that are not in the EU.

DanceMeToTheEndOfLove Tue 15-Nov-16 06:04:04

Reading the OP has explained why so many people felt they could arrogantly vote us out of the EU so confidently.

You didn't actually believe all that 'special relationship' and 'we don't need EU shit, did you?'

FenellaMaxwell Tue 15-Nov-16 06:04:16

Umm.... Right. All a bit playground, isn't it? They're MY friend, you mustn't play with them!

Germany are currently one of the few balanced, neutral and secure countries around - I'd want to be their friend not the UK's too!

HopelesslydevotedtoGu Tue 15-Nov-16 06:06:30

I think he's also trying to big up Angela who I think caught the perfect note with her guarded welcome to Trump

I bet Obama liked that amongst the gushing from May et all. Anyone would think Trump is a celebrity not a politician....

CoteDAzur Tue 15-Nov-16 06:06:42

"Britain is supposed to have a special relationship, but Germany is described as the closest partner. he could have said nothing but he chose to name a "closest partner" "

Oh boo hoo.

Did you take that to mean "Germany is our BFF so ner"?

TataEs Tue 15-Nov-16 06:08:21

meh, germany runs europe. obama was clear on how he felt about brexit. of course a 'special relationship' with big europe is going to be prioritised over little britain. i imagine that whilst trump was pro brexit, once he realises that he kinda needs europe on side he'll have a "special relationship" with germany too... if ang let's him. she's pretty fierce ;)

ManaFleet Tue 15-Nov-16 06:08:42

The American government made it very clear that if we were damn fool enough to leave the EU then we would go to the back of the queue when it came to international trade. It was clear that the 'special relationship' - such as it was - would be no more. You can't just pick and choose your news.

HopelesslydevotedtoGu Tue 15-Nov-16 06:11:41

We had a special relationship once (and look where that got us with Dubya)

It doesn't mean it will last forever

Us leaving the EU is huge
We are less relevant internationally now

Yes we should build our non-EU relationships now we are leaving
Trump's "America First" will mean we are on a backhander negoting trade deals with America, they know we need the deals asap more than they need them

5moreminutes Tue 15-Nov-16 06:15:51

Its very much common knowledge that Obama was absolutely clear and emphatic about wanting Britain to remain in the EU, how has this taken you by surprise Jupiter ?

it was reported everywhere but this is the Wall Street Journal from April

DanceMeToTheEndOfLove Tue 15-Nov-16 06:18:48

I think that we probably look pretty silly to the rest of the world now.

Whatever your position on the EU/Brexit, you've got to admit that to the rest of the world it looked like:

Tiny country, part of a bigger thing that was quite useful, although not perfect.

PM held promised referendum, but with no plan for what would happen and what it would look like afterwards.

People voted, despite there being no plan and then desperately googled the following day to find out what the EU actually was.

PM and other MPs then thought, "shit, that wasn't supposed to happen.There's no plan!" and resigned.

I'd be looking for a new 'best friend' too!

MizzEmma Tue 15-Nov-16 06:19:05

I live in the USA. None of my US friends see the US and the UK as having a special relationship and they all think that leaving Europe is a completely mad idea.

Trump's campaign was all about America first - do you really think he'll be rushing to offer the UK favours?

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