isn't it about time the world did something about North Korea?

(34 Posts)
thelmafitzgerald Fri 09-Sep-16 08:57:51

In the news this morning: http://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2016/sep/09/north-korea-nuclear-test-suspected-after-huge-seismic-explosion-detected-live?CMP=ShareiOSAppp_Other

North Korea tried another nuclear experiment that resulted in a heartquake that was felt all around the world. I don't get how it is possible this regime keeps bullying the rest of the world (not to mention the well-known appalling lack of human rights) and gets away with it.

Why?? Isn't it about time the rest of the world did something about it? Is it just me being naive?

alltouchedout Fri 09-Sep-16 08:59:33

China does not want the rest of the world to do something about NK and the rest of the world does not want to seriously fall out with China.

Lweji Fri 09-Sep-16 09:00:39

What do you propose the rest of the world does?

thelmafitzgerald Fri 09-Sep-16 09:10:08

Honestly I understand I come across as very naive and I probably really don't know enough to carry an informed conversation about this (I am eager to learn more though, so if anyone is familiar with the specifics of the situation please enlighten me).

I am aware of the fact that China is backing up DPRK and I understand how that changes the scenario worldwide. However I am baffled that even China does not understand what a threat North Korea could be, considering how aggressive and reckless Kim Jong-un has been since taking power.

That regime is a bloody joke, a serious threat for the rest of the world (even more so for Asian countries given their proximity) and a humanitarian tragedy all the same time.

Sorry if my posts come across as ignorant, I guess I am just expressing my disbelief at the current situation.

ChardonnayKnickertonSmythe Fri 09-Sep-16 09:12:49

Like what?

Tell them off?
Sanctions?
Invade?

I do wonder if even China can do something about them.

TheresAJaffaCakeInMyPocket Fri 09-Sep-16 13:16:27

I am totally ignorant about this, other than the terrible things North Korea do. Why is China not wanting the rest of the world to do something? blush

HateSummer Fri 09-Sep-16 13:21:49

Yeah. Let's go and invade them like we did with Iraq. That worked out so well didn't it? I've stopped believing every tiny thing I read in the news. Most of it is propaganda. North Korea and any other country know exactly what would happen if they attacked with a nuclear weapon. It's all about showing power.

Lweji Fri 09-Sep-16 13:29:26

Why don't you read on it?

It only takes a quick google.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/sep/09/north-korea-nuclear-test-sanctions-embargo

www.armscontrol.org/factsheets/UN-Security-Council-Resolutions-on-North-Korea

NK have been under sanctions for decades.

ChardonnayKnickertonSmythe Fri 09-Sep-16 13:31:32

NK is China's little pet dragon.

The rest of the world does nothing because they can't do a thing, so it's best tor even to try.

Humidseptember Fri 09-Sep-16 14:47:44

Op sorry you have had such sniffy responses smile I was thinking about them today after this latest news.

I wonder if they kicked off what would happen. Perhaps the US marines know where the nukes are and they and others would simply crawl all over the whole country?

Humidseptember Fri 09-Sep-16 14:49:12

Let's go and invade them like we did with Iraq.

Each case should be dealt with separately. Regligious /tribal issues are in play in the middle east mess, its different with NK it could be assimilated into south korea.

MadisonMontgomery Fri 09-Sep-16 14:55:54

What I don't understand, is that the impression I have of North Korea is that the people who live there aren't happy, and that there are lots of escapees. So would they actually protest if the ruling party are taken out of power?

BombadierFritz Fri 09-Sep-16 14:57:28

what could possibly go wrong if the west invaded korea? its not like we have any examples in history to guide us.

Humidseptember Fri 09-Sep-16 15:03:09

madison NK is the largest prison camp on the planet, the control over the citizens is like nothing else, they operate the - one family member fucks up- generations are sent to the gulags.

yes they would be happy but it would take years to relax and unfurl....after generations of such oppression and mind control.

Humidseptember Fri 09-Sep-16 15:04:10

NK could be assimilated into SK if it were allowed. Very different situ to the other wars of course.

oldlaundbooth Fri 09-Sep-16 15:05:38

here

They executed this guy for falling asleep!

Lweji Fri 09-Sep-16 15:15:35

what could possibly go wrong if the west invaded korea?

They have a huge army and are heavily armed.

Plus, they are a pet fellow "communist" country to China.

It might be worth a reading: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_War

BombadierFritz Fri 09-Sep-16 15:18:29

yeah I know lweji it was meant as a joke comment, sorry blush

Danglyweed Fri 09-Sep-16 15:20:08

I know a brilliant charity that is trying their best to expose the horrific reality of people living in NK. Unfortunately, no one in power really gives two shits.

www.eahrnk.org

AnnaMarlowe Fri 09-Sep-16 15:20:44

thelma the question is what could the international community do, short of a war, that they are not already doing?

GeneralBobbit Fri 09-Sep-16 15:20:52

I think the nuclear testing is the least of the problems.

We did it. Other countries did it. <shrugs>

The fact it's a totalitarian state and a prison camp is far more concerning.

Lweji Fri 09-Sep-16 15:32:45

BombadierFritz

Yes, sorry I used your expression, but it was more in relation to NK being easily assimilated by SK.
It would, but getting there would be the hard part. sad

MindSweeper Fri 09-Sep-16 15:37:32

I'm going to copy and paste this:

So inevitably, the question that always gets asked is - why isn't the world doing more about North Korea?

Any war, not started by North Korea, is simply a lot of risk with too little reward

As callous as it may seem, with 25 million oppressed and often starving citizens, the risk to nations that would be willing to topple the Kim regime is simply too great. Even ignoring the political issues around doing such a thing (whether the UN, particularly China, would allow it), consider that:
The US has 28,500 troops in South Korea, and over 30,000 more in neighboring Japan and Okinawa, who are the first troops to respond to any war in Korea. The US has been there for over 60 years now, and will be drawn in.

South Korea has hundreds of thousands of troops, with hundreds of thousands more in reserve. Many are along the DMZ, where if hostilities flare, they will likely be caught off guard.

While Seoul is close to the DMZ, it isn't as close to currently established North Korean gun emplacements on the other side of the DMZ. That said, there are parts within reach of longer guns, and as the Yeongpyeong Island bombardments show, civilians are easily caught in the fire in a artillery exchange.

The Korean War cost 2-3 million lives over the course of 3 years. While North Korea can't win against a war against the South + US, even a short conflict will be very bloody. Both sides have spent 60 years planning for one another, and have positions marked and weapons in place.

Even aside from the costs of the direct conflict, the humanitarian cost will be huge. 25 million citizens of North Korea with little in the way of valuable worldly education - many have been indoctrinated into the Kim cult at an early age - will trigger a disaster with refugees pouring into China and the South.

Keep in mind the heavy cost of German reunification, which was peaceful, and one that dealt with far smaller of a difference in culture and mindsets. Or the costs of integrating Eastern Europe with Western Europe after the Iron Curtain fell and a lot of the social costs that have come of it.

Geopolitics have shaped how the world deals with North Korea

Throughout the Cold War, with China and the Soviet Union as its benefactors, North Korea was largely shielded despite being the aggressor of the Korean War, a war that only ended in a cease fire, not a formal end.
At the end of the Cold War, many predicted North Korea would either collapse on its own or reform as China and Vietnam did. Instead, North Korea held on tight - Kim Jong Il even being more repressive than his father, while doing little as famine killed an estimated 2-3 million in the North.
Through it all, China has helped prop up the regime - again, in part to avoid the possibility of a flood of refugees across its border. In recent years, China has started to care less about North Korea, and even joined in on the condemnations and sanctions. Still, they are the #1 business partner, and strategic considerations (like not having a pro-US nation directly on its border) means they tacitly accept North Korea.

And the question always arises is what would happen if a war did erupt?

Would China join in, as they did in 1950? They've never officially left as a party to the cease fire, and have never stated their position. Its highly unlikely they would, but is that a risk the US and South Korea are willing to take, even if the human costs are ignored? No.

Staying the course while waiting for North Korea to collapse has kept a relative peace, but it may not see an end to North Korea anytime soon either

For the most part, all the parties are generally okay with the status quo, given the costs. That said, the hope has long been that economic sanctions and political isolation will eventually cause the Kim dynasty to collapse from public revolt, or from a coup near the top.
Even then, the Kim family has outmaneuvered all of that. Dissent is utterly snuffed out, and their political prison camps are notorious for their brutality. And a coup at the high end? Kim Jong Un had his own uncle executed. In fact, according to analysts, of the hundreds of Kim Jong Un's father's generals and commanders in the photo taken with him upon his accession to the top, over half have been purged/executed.
As the saying goes... any regime willing to kill as many of its own people, tends to stay in power a very long time

megletthesecond Fri 09-Sep-16 19:44:43

humid the 'send in the Navy Seals / SAS / secret service' thing goes through my head too blush . Politics is safer without me involved.

Inkanta Sat 10-Sep-16 16:47:56

Yes I think Kim Jong-un this one for James Bond.

I'm concerned for the world - that an erratic insecure anti-social can run riot with nuclear bomb tests and do what the hell he likes.

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