So do Black lives actually matter then?

(218 Posts)
WeGonBeAite Mon 11-Jul-16 18:49:16

Surprised to see no conversation on one of the biggest issues in the news at present.

The one thread I have seen referencing this took the angle of the police officers dead. I did give it a quick browse, but as usual the thread was derailed and focused on proving that UK news channels poorly covered the most recent deaths and that seemed to be it! hmm

I haven't come across any real discussion on the actual incidents and more importantly the obvious trend of police brutality on black lives.

Why?

There are protests all over the world right now, and there have been three in London over the weekend alone.

In a civilized society, uproar should not just come from a select minority, but rather from everyone!

Where is the mainstream voice? Where is the outrage? Where are the allies? Where are you?

Do Black lives not matter then?

peachpudding Mon 11-Jul-16 19:30:39

Of course they do, but isn't this mainly an American issue, not a lot we can do about it here.

WeGonBeAite Mon 11-Jul-16 19:33:23

Shooting in Paris? In Chicago?

The majority of black UK citizens would also add that NO, this is not just an American issue.

user1466690252 Mon 11-Jul-16 19:35:58

Of course they matter and it is disgusting. I think the issue is that we have enough maddness going on over here to be deali f with. Screaming black lives matter whilst telling people in oue country to "go back home" doesnt sit right with me. We need to deal with racism in the uk right now

PigletWasPoohsFriend Mon 11-Jul-16 19:37:15

Welcome to MN

Of course Black Lives Matter.

Your OP is quite aggressive however.

WeGonBeAite Mon 11-Jul-16 19:52:56

We'll I am a UK born an bread citizen, and as a black person, this issue is probably one of the most relevant to my life at the moment. I would expect that since we do not live in a vacuum, and this is a massive thing RIGHT NOW, people as a whole would be talking about it.

The voices I hear talking about this are almost exclusively Black or from minority ethnic groups. Why is that? Why is that not the same when we have other international issues such as the Paris shootings, or the Chicago shootings? Why is EU xenophobia easier to digest as 'our' problem but institutional, historical racism not a 'topic' to all?

I am expected to care about ALL issues, and I do. Why does my life not get the same 'collective' uproar? Honestly where is the mainstream voice? - Even before the EU referendum.

And again, racism is just as bad in the UK - ask a black person! Luckily our police don't have guns but our stats are not that far out when it comes to contact with police etc....

When should we talk about this if not now?

And the fact that 4 posts in I would be labelled aggressive is so text book it's funny! = PS I have been here for a while!

Backingvocals Mon 11-Jul-16 20:00:18

I think the difference is that our police are not routinely armed. So although of course there have been terrible injustices, they don't happen on the industrial scale of the US. Whereas the Paris attacks could easily happen here.

I am interested in the Black Lives Matter campaign though. So interested to read more about it and a UK take on it.

But also this campaign is happening at the same time the biggest UK news month of my lifetime so I think that's also part of the reason it doesn't have the prominence you think it deserves.

peachpudding Mon 11-Jul-16 20:19:52

(I am white and not from London) In England my circle of friends do talk about what happens in America all the time, we see Paris shootings as more isolated. Of course we all agree Black lives matter as much as any other human life. In terms of the Chicago shootings, we see it connected to the gun culture in America, and over the years we have almost given up thinking it can be changed. What can we do, Americans just love guns. In the UK we just dont see the cops killing people based on the color of their skin, which is probably why we dont get as exercised by it.

On top of that the news has been dominated by a political whirlwind the past few weeks.

user1466690252 Mon 11-Jul-16 20:19:57

Theres a March in my hometown Wednesday, its all over social media in the uk. But racism is the issue in the uk at the moment. All aspects of it

And you are agressive.

YokoWakarimasen Mon 11-Jul-16 20:28:10

I don't think you are aggressive. I think it is a reasonable question, and that being angry or disappointed in the lack of discussion is natural. sadly, rather than look at ourselves and why we aren't caring more about this people will accuse you of aggression - because their feelings apparently trump black lives. a lot of change is required but not enough people care enough to facilitate it.

PeppasNanna Mon 11-Jul-16 20:33:25

I'm white. My dc are mixed race. We live in London. We talk about this dirtvofvthing constantly.

Black lives dd matter... if it affects you, your family, your life.

I don't think your being aggressive.

PeppasNanna Mon 11-Jul-16 20:34:07

blush excuse typos!

WeGonBeAite Mon 11-Jul-16 20:45:23

I think that's also part of the reason it doesn't have the prominence you think it deserves unfortunately reads to me, and like a lot of the Black lives matter discussion as 'Black lives matter - last'.

80% of my Facebook friends are white, but 98% of the comment and coverage on this matter comes from Black people or people from other minority ethnic groups. I can see a VERY clear racial divide in that white people almost exclusively do not speak and NEVER have on race issues which relate to Black lives - Even before the referendum!!!!

My question is why? Can anyone offer any insights into why THEY themselves don't or have not? Not 'I think it's because..... <insert any number of reasons that are not substantiated in fact>

Is there discomfort? Do people feel it isn't their place? Do people feel like they don't know about the topic enough?

Or do people really still feel that racism doesn't happen to people they know and in areas that they live? Or perhaps that people are playing the race card maybe?

I'm genuinely interested in finding out why every other injustice is easy to admit but racism is always met with excuses.... Now and for the last 15 years of my life - Again not just because of the EU referendum or any other news piece since 1977!!!

I have been more than capable of commenting on the EU referendum, Corbyn, May, Wimbledon and Portugal's win AS WELL AS various issues relating to the Black lives matter movement.

Theres a March in my hometown Wednesday, its all over social media in the uk - Yes but not all over Mumsnet or any other mainstream discussion forums which was the point of the thread.

Usually I would not entertain such comments, but on this occasion please do feel free to reference anything you find aggressive to offer clarity!

dizzyfucker Mon 11-Jul-16 20:45:59

You will not get far when protests only happen at times when a police force 7000 miles away shots another black man. This is not British news, while it is a worldwide problem it needs to be addressed locally or nationally within each nation.

When Mark Duggan was shot, there were riots in London but no world wide protests. It's the same in this case.

British people should be addressing this daily and in the realm of the UK, not just when someone gets shot in the USA. Philando Castile's case is that he was shot for complying with the law. He was shot because he was black and he was shot in front of his 4 year old. This is a turning point. I really hope this doesn't have to happen in the UK before anyone sits up and takes notice. It should be used as a starting point to wake people up but at the same time, it is not a UK case.

If you are really passionate about this, do not use USA cases to draw attention to the problem in the UK because people are not going to listen. Use your voice as a citizen of the UK and make the campaign about the problem IN THE UK. Make it everyday, not just when a man in the USA gets shot. It needs to have more impact and will be much more realistic for a UK perspective rather than looking like the UK is just jumping on the US bandwagon.

Also this needs to happen all the time, not just when someone gets shot because one thing that is brutally hurting the Black Lives Matter campaign is that it becomes an excuse for some idiots to loot shops and shoot police. So people stop taking notice of everyone. The campaign needs to be stronger and it needs to be continuous. People will not take much notice if it only happens in reaction to shootings. Especially in the UK where the problem is less about shootings and more about deep rooted and institutionalised racism. Tackle that, get influential black people organised on the campaign. Get speeches, get information out there to the people. Make people sit up and take notice by not going away. Highlight the problems all the time and not just as a reaction to US police shootings.

claig Mon 11-Jul-16 21:39:27

' I can see a VERY clear racial divide in that white people almost exclusively do not speak and NEVER have on race issues which relate to Black lives - Even before the referendum!!!!

My question is why? Can anyone offer any insights into why THEY themselves don't or have not?'

Because I think a lot of people don't see this as a race issue.

There is not much media publicity when whites are killed.

'Police kill more whites than blacks, but minority deaths generate more outrage

Analysis contradicts widespread views about racial targets'

www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/apr/21/police-kill-more-whites-than-blacks-but-minority-d/

BrandNewAndImproved Mon 11-Jul-16 21:47:47

I believe black lives matter and white silence is violence. Saying all lives matter is like going to a cancer relief fundraiser with a placard saying aids kills too.

But I'm not American, it doesn't directly affect me. I don't see police shooting black people in this country. I may have an opinion of other countries problems and politics but I'm not about to start marching for them.

WeGonBeAite Mon 11-Jul-16 21:51:53

dizzy agreed and that is why I have been careful to reference the Black lives matter movement over the particular murders last week.

I was trying to find a central BLM social page but couldn't. I get a lot of news triggered down from sites such as For Harriet and Root. Do you have any other sources to recommend - or even chat forums?

I feel a real frustration that I personally don't know of somewhere I can discuss race (which to me, outside of being a mum and a wife) is probably the single most impact issue in my life.

I'm not interested in fighting, I'm really trying to learn and discuss for progress.

Yoko & Pepper - I know I'm not aggressive smile it's one of those 'typical' statements that's made to silence and deflect, rather than engage. Used to it! wink

WeGonBeAite Mon 11-Jul-16 21:59:05

claig I would hope police kill more white people in America, there are only 200,000,000 more of them!

Outrage directly relates the issue of racism - endemic in America and across the West.

Apologies, not sure I get your actual point?

claig Mon 11-Jul-16 22:04:51

'Apologies, not sure I get your actual point?'

I don't think the cops shot the black people because the cops are racist or that they shot the white people because the cops were racist.

There are no marches or protests when the more whites are shot by the police because I don't think it is to do with race.

It is worth googling black conservative American pastors' websites, black Republican Presidential candidate Dr Ben Carson, black Sherrif David Clarke etc to see a different viewpoint on Black Lives Matter and the shootings etc

ImGoingToTeabagYourDrumKitDale Mon 11-Jul-16 22:15:25

The other half is of agro Caribbean heritage, he went to the US recently with work. He was worried, he was approached by officers whilst walking down a road in Miami. He did everything the police asked of him.

He played on the floor with his hands spread, he did not reach for any pockets. He answered all questions, he directed the officers to his British passport in the car. He walked away with an apology, he looked similar to a suspect they were told to 've on the look out for 6ft4 mixed race, male of athletic build.

He said he understands why people are aggrieved or embarrassed, it's not nice to have the world watching you lay on the floor, but he had see for st hand young black men not comply with instructions and physical violence was the outcome.

It's hard, its a complex issue. Black lives matter of course they do, all lives matter.

Without siffocent gun control however the US will still have police and civilian fatalities.

ImGoingToTeabagYourDrumKitDale Mon 11-Jul-16 22:16:49

Sorry for typos blush

PigletWasPoohsFriend Mon 11-Jul-16 22:18:28

Usually I would not entertain such comments, but on this occasion please do feel free to reference anything you find aggressive to offer clarity!

Your posting style to me is aggressive.

It wasn't to shut down debate it was an observation (you have no idea the race of me or other posters)

PigletWasPoohsFriend Mon 11-Jul-16 22:20:00

Without siffocent gun control however the US will still have police and civilian fatalities.

This is a huge issue but until there is a will to change the law I don't see how it will change.

RJnomore1 Mon 11-Jul-16 22:22:14

But it does happen here doesn't it., we don't have armed police the same way so people don't die but look at the stop and search statistics.

I am just glad I am not the mother of a young black man.

claig Mon 11-Jul-16 22:23:48

'Your posting style to me is aggressive.'

I don't see the OP as being aggressive, rather asking the legitimate question "what the hell is going on?" and "why aren't more people concerned about it and talking about it?"

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