Ruth Smeeth

(38 Posts)
LadyAntonella Thu 30-Jun-16 21:54:19

Sorry if this has already been covered but I only just heard this story and am horrified.

My understanding is that at an antisemetism event Jeremy Corbyn made an antisemetic comment. Ruth Smeeth, a Jewish Labour MP challenged him on it and was shouted down by someone thought to have links with the Momentum group, accused of colluding with the media and had to leave the room in floods of tears.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-antisemitism-jeremy-corbyn-ruth-smeeth-jewish-mp-accused-of-colluding-with-media-a7111061.html

gettingbythistime Sat 02-Jul-16 10:35:53

it hasn't been covered. i didn't think it would be on here. i wonder why.......

horsemadmom Mon 04-Jul-16 07:53:32

Almost nobody in the Jewish Community, myself included, was even remotely surprised by this. We were just gobsmacked that Corbyn's bunch were so stupid that they said it with cameras rolling. Corbin even got caught joking with that man afterwards and said he'd sent him a text.
So, the report was a whitewash. Corbin and his mob are anti-semites (and have no respect for Parliamentary democracy).

BertrandRussell Mon 04-Jul-16 08:00:26

Obviously I wasn't there. But your account of the incident does not match the news report you link to.

My understanding is that Corbyn said something in his speech which some people though was unfortunate. I don't think anyone thought it was actually anti Semitic, but could have been better worded.

There was a separate incident where an activist accused Ruth Smeeth of colluding with the media. As many in the anti Corbyn camp have over the past days. I don't know whether this incident was anti Semitic or not. Is it automatically anti Semitic to accuse a Jewish person of colluding with the Media? Even if they have?

BertrandRussell Mon 04-Jul-16 08:10:02

Also the activist SAID- there is no reason to believe him- that he did not know that Ruth Smeeth was Jewish. Is that at all credible?

samG76 Mon 04-Jul-16 08:16:08

If he knew so little about her, he probably shouldn't have denounced her by name. I'm not buying this - it like livingstone saying he didn't know the Reuben's were Jewish when he told them to go back where they came from.

horsemadmom Mon 04-Jul-16 08:25:14

BertrandRussell- The current and former Chief Rabbis thought it offensive, The Israeli Embassy did too (thorn berry actually phoned to apologise!), every Jewish person I know and every non-Jewish person I have spoken to also thought it was offensive. Which world do you live in where comparing a democratic country to 'self-styled Islamic states' is just 'off'. If he had meant Saudi or Pakistan, he would have said 'Muslim Nations'.
The report, pathetic as it was, actually pointed to accusations of Jewish Media Conspiracies as anti-semitic. The Momentum guy knew exactly what he was saying.

BertrandRussell Mon 04-Jul-16 12:15:43

It's a common enough usage. It was said to me on here recently when I said that Leave voters had to acknowledge that they were at least enabling racism ad someone replied that Muslims at large shouldn't be held responsible for their extremists. And Jewish people at large are not responsible for the behaviour of the state of Israel.

"The Momentum guy knew exactly what he was saying."

I presume you have evidence to support this. In that case, then yes. Outrageous.

samG76 Mon 04-Jul-16 12:22:26

BR - it's a rubbish comparison - if you said Jews here shouldn't be blamed for the violent extremist KC organisation, that would be closer to reality, although KC doesn't go around murdering people in concerts, at airports, etc. Most British Jews (92% according to the survey) are proud there is a state of Israel. The vast majority of UK Muslims are not proud of ISIS. This is why it is a silly comparison.

RiverTam Mon 04-Jul-16 12:22:49

For a pre-prepared speech, given that in the introduction to the report it was written that governments should be criticised without using inflammatory language, and given just how bad JC's relationship with the media is, it was appallingly worded, and to me that says a lot about both JC and his people. There was no need to even mention Muslims to make the point he was making, and there was no need to use such woolly language that was very open to interpretation. The fact that apparently Labour Party members need it pointing out to them that you don't blame the world's Jews for the actions of the state of Israel is also slightly mind-boggling.

It just shows how incredibly arrogant he and his supporters are.

And yes, very interesting that it hardly got a mention on MN. It was all over my Twitter feed.

BertrandRussell Mon 04-Jul-16 12:27:28

"Most British Jews (92% according to the survey) are proud there is a state of Israel"

But many are not proud of the behaviour of the government of the state of Israel, surely?

horsemadmom Mon 04-Jul-16 12:29:33

Last point first...
Yes, he knew what he was saying. The conversation with Corbyn was filmed.
metro.co.uk/2016/07/01/corbyn-laughs-and-jokes-with-man-who-left-jewish-mp-ruth-smeeth-in-tears-5978221/

Corbyn knew it too. He either didn't care or approved of it.

Next point
It's only common useage to equate Israel and ISIS if you are an anti-semite. What is so hard to understand about that?

Nobody refers to countries with a Muslim population as' self-styled'. It would be insulting and delegitimising if they did. They are nations or countries. Again. Corbin knew exactly what he was saying.

Which bit of 'the Labour Party is not a safe place for Jews' (sic Ruth Smeeth) is confusing you?

cingolimama Mon 04-Jul-16 12:37:31

Bertrand, you're a smart person. Surely you can understand the difference between a deeply-flawed but democratic country (currently led by Netanyahu, who many Israelis despise and criticise) and a barbaric terrorist group who routinely rapes, tortures and kills in the name of some psychotic version of Islam?

And while Muslims are decent because they do not support Isil’s actions, so too Jews are decent when they do not support Israel. And, of course, only when they do not support Israel.

BertrandRussell Mon 04-Jul-16 12:46:20

So, even if Ruth Smeeth had talked to the Telegraph about Corbyn's leadership, she shouldn't be challenged about it because she's Jewish? Surely you're not saying that?

RiverTam Mon 04-Jul-16 12:54:11

There's a time and a place, doing that at an inquiry into anti-semitism in the Labour Party isn't that place. And it would have been nice to see Corbyn support one of his own MPs over someone from Momentum. But clearly Corbyn values them far higher than he does the Labour MPs elected by the British people (200,000 (who voted him in) versus 9 million (who voted for Labour MPs at the last election)).

cingolimama Mon 04-Jul-16 12:56:48

Yes of course she can be challenged about it. Who knows what she said about Corbyn to the Telegraph? But who the hell is this Momentum thug to publicly humiliate her at a press conference about the enquiry into Anti-Semitism within the Labour Party? If Corbyn's office has concerns, then they are the right people to contact her.

I note you ducked the Israel/isil issue.

BertrandRussell Mon 04-Jul-16 13:06:41

So the Momentum man's behaviour was inappropriate regardless of Smeeth's faith?

cingolimama Mon 04-Jul-16 13:33:10

What, exactly, is your point, bertrand? I honestly don't understand what you're getting at here.

BertrandRussell Mon 04-Jul-16 13:42:06

OK. This is my point.

The Momentum man was being a bit of a git. But politics-particularly at the moment- is a rough game. And Labour MPs are giving loads of anonymous briefings to the press as they all indulge in this unedifying spectacle of tearing the party to shreds.

There is no suggestion that Ruth Smeeth "hadn't" talked to the Press. If we know that Momentum Man knew she was Jewish and picked on her and her alone to challenge on it then it's anti Semitic. But if he didn't and was simply calling her out on her briefing the Tory press, then he wasn't. And the conversation with Corbyn at the end was about talking to the Torygraph.

cingolimama Mon 04-Jul-16 13:56:52

Oh, please.

BertrandRussell Mon 04-Jul-16 14:15:53

Sorry?

horsemadmom Mon 04-Jul-16 14:24:29

I'm with you, Cingolimama. No point, really.

BertrandRussell Mon 04-Jul-16 14:27:15

Oh right. So no questioning, no challenge, no attempt to dig out the facts. No nuance. Accept the received interpretation or be condemned.

samG76 Mon 04-Jul-16 15:11:31

Ruth Smeeth didn't give any briefings to the press. All she had done was pick up a press release from a Telegraph reporter when Wadsworth refused to give her one. I doubt if the contents were that secret.

And why was Wadsworth giving out activist leaflets in a meeting intended to discuss anti-semitism?

I'm not sure if it's the MPs tearing the party to shreds. It's the leader who thinks that <20% is an acceptable level of confidence from his own MPs.

gettingbythistime Mon 04-Jul-16 15:22:55

look how quickly 'israel' is brought into the discussion when discussing jewishness. the same people/persons bringing it in you can bet are the same person(s) who will jump down posters throats moaning how they cannot criticise israel without being called an antisemite. what fucking hypocrites grin

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