The Panama Papers

(32 Posts)
AttitcusFinchIsMyFather Mon 04-Apr-16 10:19:27

So, what are we thinking about this? No U.S. citizens named so far.

link

claig Mon 04-Apr-16 10:23:30

Most of the bad guys named and a few old Lords thrown in to make it look impartial. Doesn't seem to be any current important leaders except for bad guys. Looks like a spin operation against the bad guys.

claig Mon 04-Apr-16 10:31:58

Putin mentioned in every diispatch and the global governance agenda stepped up by the good guys, charidees, saying something needs to be done. Good guys laughing, bad guys reeling.

"Charities and NGOs are using the leak as a chance to reiterate their views on tax avoidance."

www.theguardian.com/news/live/2016/apr/04/panama-papers-global-reaction-to-huge-leak-of-offshore-tax-files-live

0phelia Mon 04-Apr-16 10:41:53

David Cameron's Dad!

claig Mon 04-Apr-16 10:51:48

It was obviously released now for some reason, timing is everything.It is not as if lots of people weren't in the loop about what goes on. It may be intended to affect the EU, we will have to wait and see what more is revealed and what bigwigs are involved. So far not much on the EU side. Something about climate, I think and obviously Putin gets mentions at every stage.

"Panama Papers: EU's Canete implicated in leak

The wife of EU climate and energy commissioner Miguel Arias Canete has been named in a huge leak of documents relating to offshore companies called the Panama Papers, which have also led to accusations of shady financial dealings by the leaders of Iceland, Russia and Ukraine."

euobserver.com/justice/132897

"Panama Papers: Konrad Mizzi is only minister in European Union mentioned"

www.independent.com.mt/articles/2016-04-04/local-news/Panama-Papers-Konrad-Mizzi-is-only-minister-in-European-Union-mentioned-6736155799

More will probably come out, possibly about some EU types.

claig Mon 04-Apr-16 11:07:56

Timing.

"Cameron plans offshore summit as tax secrets are leaked

The British PM vowed to end tax secrecy four years ago. Not much has happened – but the Panama Papers may change that
...
Cameron is due to host a major summit to discuss offshore issues in London in May. Campaigners want legislation to abolish all the UK’s tax havens including the crown dependencies Jersey, Guernsey and the Isle of Man."

www.theguardian.com/news/2016/apr/03/cameron-plans-offshore-summit-as-tax-secrets-are-leaked

Interesting that the story has been led by the German Suddeustsche Zeitung. May have an impact on EU types.

claig Mon 04-Apr-16 11:34:26

Guardian, huge debate, Big Conversation.

"The details from the Panama Papers will contribute to an important public debate – not just in the UK but across the world – about what offshore activity can be tolerated, and what should not.

Can you have transparency if some activities are kept secret, and others not? And who makes that judgment? These are huge questions that governments have not been able to answer.

In May, the UK is planning to host an anti-corruption summit. Offshore tax havens are to be discussed – and after the Panama Papers disclosures they are likely to be top of the agenda."

www.theguardian.com/news/2016/apr/03/a-world-of-hidden-wealth-why-we-are-shining-a-light-offshore

2016IsANewYearforMe Mon 04-Apr-16 17:31:40

I am waiting for some interesting names to come out.

Enough interesting names and maybe, just maybe, we'll get some real change.

I wonder what has happened to the person who leaked these. They cannot feel very safe.

0dfod Mon 04-Apr-16 19:50:13

I am wondering as to who in the UK is involved, interesting that it is all the other countries leaders/influential people are named hmm

I would like to see this 11 million documents made available to all to see, would be lots of blush people closer to home I am sure.

claig Mon 04-Apr-16 20:18:29

Only some of the info will be released. Article on some leak group funders in Breitbart. Interesting that the leak comes days before the Netherlands votes in a referendum on an EU association with Ukraine and Poroshenko is mentioned in it.

Craig Murray has some stuff on it on his blog.

"Panama Papers: Mainstream Media Focuses on ‘Putin Link’, Leak Group Funded By Pro-Open Borders George Soros
...
But the Putin links, as the media has to keep repeating for legal reasons, are not in fact linked to the Russian premier, but rather to some people they claim are in his “inner circle”.

Instead, the global figures directly implicated, including the Argentinian President, Iceland’s Prime Minister, the King of Saudi Arabia – alongside a host of other Western-allied Gulf figures, the President of Ukraine and others are being somewhat insulated by the media narrative.

The leak comes just days before a Netherlands vote on the EU association agreement with Ukraine – a referendum that is effectively about the Dutch people siding with either Vladimir Putin or the EU-backed network (including the leak-named president) of Ukraine. But the focus appears to be locked on Mr. Putin for the time being."

www.breitbart.com/london/2016/04/04/panama-papers-mainstream-media-focuses-putin-link-leak-group-funded-pro-open-borders-george-soros/

babybarrister Tue 05-Apr-16 13:34:00

There are going to be a few ex wives let me tell you who are also going to be very interested in this stuff!

OhYouBadBadKitten Tue 05-Apr-16 13:36:20

Can someone give me a quick precis as to what has happened please. I've only been away from the news for a couple of days and I've come back to headlines that mean nothing. As I'm really knackered I'd really appreciate someone else doing my thinking for me for once!

0phelia Tue 05-Apr-16 15:04:43

There's a law firm in Panama, Mossack Fonseca that specialises in advising the very wealthy how to dodge tax. All sorts of tax, including on income and inheritance. It is revealed they also advise clients on how to hide stolen money and assets.

It's only possible for very wealthy to do these sorts of things, the rest of us have to fork it out to them.

The leak names clients and reveals details of their activity with the firm.

Putin's circle of friends is at the centre because the West are increasingly worried about his ever increasing power, the leak so far reveals the net worth in billions, of him and his friends.

It's not a huge surprise, because we all know already how leaders and the wealthy are corrupt, immoral, unethical and sociopathic. This may have a ripple effect, though.

0phelia Tue 05-Apr-16 15:13:14

Oh yes, and Britain is getting a slap on the wrist from the EU and US because British overseas tax havens make up 25% of global tax havens.

Cameron said he'd do something but how unlikely is that seeing as all his inherited wealth came tax free!

OhYouBadBadKitten Tue 05-Apr-16 15:19:41

Thank you smile I guess what is surprising is the amount of surprise!

0phelia Tue 05-Apr-16 15:24:15

Yeah smile

This is funny though, Cameron insists his family finances are a private affair.

Snowden mocks Cameron for sudden interest in Privacy

GraysAnalogy Tue 05-Apr-16 15:31:03

I am wondering as to who in the UK is involved, interesting that it is all the other countries leaders/influential people are named

Apparently this Panama firm is only the 4th largest in the world. But with 11,000,000 documents to shift through it'll be interesting to wait and see.

babybarrister Wed 06-Apr-16 08:31:08

It is not just for the super rich though = sadly there are many people with a couple of million who also use these "structures" - I have dealt with them in divorce cases where wives have suddenly realised that all the assets including the home is held by a Panamanian foundation and she cannot get any information on it - not even where it is registered .....

A couple of the people featured on the Panorama were also clearly not the super rich either - a Mr Hague whose properties were held in the names of Panamanian companies and had clearly not declared to the HMRC that he was the beneficial owner when he made a massive capital gain, and a Mr Hudson who was doing something similar - I hope that it sends a massive shot over the bows ....

Again, half the City's IT contractors who are earnings £100k - £200k are using some type of off shore "vehicle" to channel their earnings ....

Meanwhile the rest of us actually pay our dues

2016IsANewYearforMe Wed 06-Apr-16 09:28:03

Two thoughts:

1. This isn't the only law firm doing this sort of thing. How can we find out about the rest of them?

2. Panama has had a massive building boom over the past 30 years. Concrete tower after concrete tower went up, often empty, just shells to park "hot money." Makes me think of London. The high price of housing and all the empty expensive flats. If the hot money leaves London, will the housing market crash?

You can see Panama City now vs. the 1970s (sorry, hard to find an old skyline; probably because there wasn't one!) I wonder if the Americans pulling out and "giving back" the Canal Zone is what opened the door to all the shady banking?

AnotherEffingOrangeRevel Wed 06-Apr-16 13:30:06

Well, whether this was a genuine leak or more of a strategic move, it certainly benefits certain rich and powerful Westerners.

“Even though it’s not surprising, it helps us”, says the German finance minister.

And those managing the info (International Consortium of Investigative Journalists) are funded by the superduper rich - e.g., the Kellogg and Ford Foundations, the Carnegie endowment, etc.

It will be interesting to see whether and when the public gets full access to the 11.5 million documents of which a relative few are currently being promoted. And the degree to which we get to hear about companies other than Mossack Fonseca (just one of very many, it can be fairly assumed).

scarlets Thu 07-Apr-16 20:27:43

Paul Burrell is involved, allegedly. I hadn't heard that name for ages - at one point, he was everywhere.

claig Thu 07-Apr-16 21:12:49

'And those managing the info (International Consortium of Investigative Journalists) are funded by the superduper rich - e.g., the Kellogg and Ford Foundations, the Carnegie endowment, etc. '

Absolutely and they are funded by Soros too.

Some political analysts have said that it almost looks like a left wing (globalist) operation where the anti-globalists (i.e. nationalists and soverign nationalists and right wing politicians) are generally targetted, the opposition to the globalists. So there is talk about Putin and rumours about some of Le Pen's people and the socialist Hollande said the discovery was "good news" or something like that. It suits the worldwide left wing globalist global governance crowd and puts pressure on those who want to maintain sovereignty.

suzannecaravaggio Thu 07-Apr-16 22:57:44

it smells like a move in a game to me

babybarrister Thu 07-Apr-16 23:14:07

if there were not jurisdictions around whose legislation provided for secret beneficiaries and no public registers in relation to companies, limited liability partnerships and foundations, this "industry" simply would not exist - the reason that people use these "structures" is that they hope - no doubt rightly that their creditors - whether HMRC/ex wives or whoever - will never get to find out that they are the true owners ,,,

none of the UK Governments have done anything to stop the UK Overseas Territories running these sorts of structures ....

claig Thu 07-Apr-16 23:14:39

Lots of info on Craig Murray's blog. A lot of the alternative media have followed Craig Murray's lead on this.

www.craigmurray.org.uk/

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